I still have not had a response from your label Tinnitus classics about my proposition to record all bruckner symphonies arranged for solo violin. This project is motivated by the fact that Bruckner often used violins in his orchestration, which tells us that he must have liked this instrument. Best regards.
The Mülleimer und Abfall edition of the complete symphony scores will be released next year, printed on deluxe cocktail napkins, and it finally restores the proper solo violin scoring Bruckner intended (with the kazoo obbligato in the finale of symphony 8). The manuscripts were discovered in a steamer trunk in the attic of the great-great-granddaughter of Bruckner's housekeeper, Alotta Blather.
HAHAHAHAH Don't forget the harps he loved so much that they're obliterated in the slow movement of the 8th, UNLESS the conductor cues them after the cutoff of the tutti chord !!! HAHAHAHA
Don't forget the Bernstein Royal Edition. Now, Lenny is great, but why on earth were the cover paintings by (then) Prince Charles? What is the connection between a quintessentially American composer/conductor and Chuck?
@@poturbg8698 Quite right. It was more precisely a reissue project versus a recording project, but in my mind it still stands as a good example of silliness on the part of the industry :)
@@SO-ym3zsDidn't some of the proceeds of the CD sales go to some Prince Charles charity fund? It says so right on the back of the CD. Now whether or not that actually happened, I don't know. But that's what it said.
I just listened to the Adagio of the 7th symphony played by Hansjörg Albrecht to convince myself this was real. For the most part, it sounded alright, albeit expectedly muddy. But - and you won’t believe this - at the climax of the movement (in the recording, ca. 17'55'') he adds A CYMBAL CRASH? I immediately stopped the recording couldn’t stop laughing. It was so grotesque in the context of this majestic and beautiful movement. This absolutely made my day. Thank you David for this review.
Try something with rhythm, like the scherzo or the finale. The cymbal crash is a legitimate option (it's in the Nowak edition), but here it just reinforces the silliness of playing the work on an organ.
Sheesh the term “sludge” is perfect for this monstrosity. When you played it I immediately pictured a organ shop where 20 or so amateurs were trying out different organ models. Maybe a scene like this was the inspiration for this ‘transcription’? 😂
If these transcriptions were of the level of Liszt's Beethoven symphony transcriptions played by Cyprien Katsaris, no one would even care they're not fully original Bruckner.
The completionism of this...he does 00, 0, the overture in G minor...the 9th with completed finale...and much more...everything he can think of. Well, the man loves his Bruckner.
I saw this pop up on the Presto Music app a couple of weeks ago. I actually said out loud, "Ughhhhh... Who on EARTH would want to hear that?!" My dog had no good answer. Even though it was "free," I still didn't listen to a single second of it. Not until your musical example, which lived down to my expectations!
The two-hand transcriptions by people like Loewe work *way* better than these ghastly organ transcriptions! The piano is just better suited to delineating orchestral textures.
If one were to pick out a wedding march for a remake of the movie "Bride of Frankenstein" one would fine a great range of choices from this album set! Mine would be the Adagio from the Seventh Symphony. How ghastly.
SOMEONE DID IT AGAIN!? When will they learn? Speaking personally, I'm a one-time orchestral player become fledgling pianist, and I'm a big fan of unlikely piano arrangements and transcriptions of larger works. Videos like these (this marks three videos dedicated to schmucks playing Bruckner on the organ) help instill in me a healthy fear of getting a little too ambitious with transcriptions.
I think part of the artistic freedom is to experiment with transcriptions. It always exposes a different aspect of the composition. For the record, I think the organ transcription of the coda that David sampled was gorgeous. The album is ambitious and interesting. It takes nothing away from the original compositions.
@poturbg8698 huh, I'll have to look that up. Right now, I'm thinking about arranging for piano (and percussion?) excerpts from the ballet Estancia by Ginastera
The Lawrence theme always reminded me of Grieg's Sunrise - I thought that was even more likely when I heard that Grieg was attempting to depict a desert sunrise in the Sahara.
I think he chose the wrong type of organ. He should have transcribed Bruckner's symphonies for band organ. Band organs have percussion, so the finale of the sixth symphony could have been better realized. Also, band organs are typically found in such places as the center of a merry-go-round, which would be a suitable venue for a project as absurd as this.
PIANO FOUR HANDS -- I picked up a box of ALL the bruckner symphonies recorded for piano four hand. It was all done in a concert hall. I believe Mahler actually did one of the transcriptions. Some of it works for me, but not all of it. The textures come out too densely packed in some of the heavy passages. ...... anyway I think I also have several on another german label MD and G. (They also recorded Mahler symphonies for four hand and other things....bruno walter transcribed one of these). Again, interesting.....but.... if you like this sort of thing, naxos offers all of the Brahms orchestral music in four hand transcriptions prepared by Brahms himself. Liszt also transcribed alot of music of other composers....schubert, rossini, etc.
I've reviewed the Brahms box, which is terrific, and you can read reviews of the Mahler arrangements on ClassicsToday.com. Mahler made the piano version of Bruckner's Third (with one of his conservatory buddies). He actually owned the manuscript score of the work.
I imagine taking on such a project requires an important investment of time, effort and determination on the part of the organist: making the transcriptions, studying and then recording them. So one wouldn't do it if one were not totally convinced of its validity. That makes me wonder what motivated Mr. Albrecht to dedicate an important chunk of his life to this, considering the questionable foundations of the whole enterprise.
I enjoyed this presentation, as I enjoyed so many of them (even if I do not always agree): the wit and the humor carry me along. -- I do have a question, though: are you against ALL transcriptions? So many composers have done arrangements of others' (or their own) works for different instruments (I'm thinking of Liszt's Berlioz and Rachmaninoff's Bach, to give two examples). And then there are the Stokowski transcriptions/arrangements of Bach organ works and the like for full symphony orchestra. Are these of no value or interest? -- This is how I tend to view this Bruckner project: not so much that the performer wishes to show how 'organic' (if you'll excuse the pun) Bruckner's symphonies are, as to present the music in a new light by performing it in a different medium. To many of us who love the Bruckner symphonies, this may seem to be a travesty...but it could also serve to introduce Bruckner to an audience that flocks to organ recitals, but would never darken the hall of an orchestral concert. -- I'd be interested to hear you on the subject of transcriptions in general, and, if you have no critical objections to transcriptions, why, specifically, this Bruckner project falls into such a different category....
I have made dozens of videos about wonderful transcriptions--I just made one a few days ago (Brahms on Reference Recordings). Each has to be evaluated on its own merits. I was very clear on why this project is terrible and I was careful not to make sweeping generalizations about transcriptions more broadly.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for taking the time to answer my question... I guess I haven't been watching enough of your postings to have realized this... I appreciate the clarification and regret my error...
Great breakdown on the recordings and approaches. Not gonna lie, I'd buy that recording for a dollar if it showed up in the bargain bin. I didn't hate what I heard, but also have no compelling interest in having it. At this point, one of the Bruckner mavens needs to legally change his/her name to Bruckner and compose new stuff under that name because the abiding need to have new non-existent works by Bruckner seems an insatiable one to them.
Which makes me think, what are some symphonies by other composers that have something of a Brucknerian air about them? A few that spring to mind are Stenhammar 1, Tyberg 3, Furtwängler 2, Rautavaara 3, Flury 1, bits of Diamond 2, Wetz 2...
I used to lead an amateur orchestra and the conductor wanted to do The Rite with just a string quartet for the string section. Watch out for those divisi passages.He would have to book Ricci to handle the quadruple stopping.
Whenever you do a massive pan like this, I always have an extreme bout of curiosity, much like people who can not take their eyes off of a car wreck. So of course I cued up Allbrecht's version of the 1st movement of the 4th symphony. I think that there are actually organ tropes in Bruckner's symphonies, and I think that it is actually interesting to hear them played on the organ, for example the chorale section in the development. However, the vast majority of the music is just not suitable for the organ. The spot that put a dagger in my heart was the cello counter-melody right at the beginning of the recap. I played the cello in a performance of this recently, and this spot is generally our chance to shine, super-espressivo. In Albrecht's version, it was barely audible and made no impression. I am not sure if it was the instrument or the performer, but I am guessing a combination of both.
So, when companies make these organ recordings of symphonic works, who exactly is audience for this? It would seem this would only appeal to organists?
I wanted to build my new house with three feet-thick stone walls. I now hear that Bruckner symphonies played on the organ would have been thicker. Yuck.
Thank you for countering that asinine idea about Bruckner's orchestration sounding like the organ. It's nothing but an assumption presented as a conclusion.
This leads to the interesting thought experiment of what ensemble would make an even worse re-orchestration of Bruckner... Somehow I think even a recorder ensemble could do the symphonies more justice than the organ
Recorder ensembles are sort of like organs with fewer options for large contrasts (different stops) but more nuance (vibrato that can vary continuously, different kinds of note attacks, portamento, etc.). Long stretches of organ music usually irk me in their lack of nuance, so I'm inclined to agree. It still wouldn't be idiomatic, but it could have musical phrasing.
Me, as a Bruckner listener who loves his symphonies doesnt care what version is being played, just happy to stick with Jochum. What a terrible idea to play his music on the organ, whats the use of it?!
Out of morbid curiosity, I had to give these a listen, and unless you're an organ nerd interested in arranging for that instrument, I don't understand the point or what they're supposed to add to the listening experience. You may as well just transcribe the symphonies for these cheap little Casio keyboards that kids got as Christmas presents in the 80's. In fairness, I've never much liked organ music (insert dirty joke here), but these sound pretty silly.
Do we hear arrangements of Bach cantatas for organ? NO! Never mind that Bach was himself a great organist and a great composer in general. Bach wrote his vocal-and-orchestral cantatas for instruments and voices then at hand. Another angle.
To be honest, I feel much the same way about 99.9% of all the piano transcriptions too. I never understood the people who think that if you can do it on a piano (this poor instrument which has become s Jack of all trades and it shouldn't have) then you should do it. And really most transcriptions are futile, I rarely hear something that doesn't brutally diminish the value of the original. As for this one, maybe... maybe it wouldn't be quite as bad as it is, if it was done by someone who's not an offspring of the German organ school. That school has a limited number of things that it can do right, but otherwise it's boring, dogmatic and overly scholastic. And I say that as a fanatic, whose favorite instrument happens to be the organ.
You would be wrong. I enjoy them tremendously and have said so many times. Don't make assumptions based on limited evidence. I dislike dreadful transcriptions.
I still have not had a response from your label Tinnitus classics about my proposition to record all bruckner symphonies arranged for solo violin. This project is motivated by the fact that Bruckner often used violins in his orchestration, which tells us that he must have liked this instrument.
Best regards.
The Mülleimer und Abfall edition of the complete symphony scores will be released next year, printed on deluxe cocktail napkins, and it finally restores the proper solo violin scoring Bruckner intended (with the kazoo obbligato in the finale of symphony 8). The manuscripts were discovered in a steamer trunk in the attic of the great-great-granddaughter of Bruckner's housekeeper, Alotta Blather.
@@SO-ym3zs Damn. I just got funding to do Helgoland on woodblock and now this happens.
Nicely done. This comment made me literally laugh out loud!
@@SO-ym3zs HAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAH Don't forget the harps he loved so much that they're obliterated in the slow movement of the 8th, UNLESS the conductor cues them after the cutoff of the tutti chord !!! HAHAHAHA
Please start a series of Most Ridiculous Recording Projects....EVER!! This set belongs on that list.
And the Decca Bocelli operas are on that list!
Don't forget the Bernstein Royal Edition. Now, Lenny is great, but why on earth were the cover paintings by (then) Prince Charles? What is the connection between a quintessentially American composer/conductor and Chuck?
@@SO-ym3zs No connection, but the silly Royal Edition wasn’t actually a recording project, just new covers for old recordings.
@@poturbg8698 Quite right. It was more precisely a reissue project versus a recording project, but in my mind it still stands as a good example of silliness on the part of the industry :)
@@SO-ym3zsDidn't some of the proceeds of the CD sales go to some Prince Charles charity fund? It says so right on the back of the CD. Now whether or not that actually happened, I don't know. But that's what it said.
I just listened to the Adagio of the 7th symphony played by Hansjörg Albrecht to convince myself this was real. For the most part, it sounded alright, albeit expectedly muddy. But - and you won’t believe this - at the climax of the movement (in the recording, ca. 17'55'') he adds A CYMBAL CRASH? I immediately stopped the recording couldn’t stop laughing. It was so grotesque in the context of this majestic and beautiful movement. This absolutely made my day. Thank you David for this review.
Try something with rhythm, like the scherzo or the finale. The cymbal crash is a legitimate option (it's in the Nowak edition), but here it just reinforces the silliness of playing the work on an organ.
Sheesh the term “sludge” is perfect for this monstrosity. When you played it I immediately pictured a organ shop where 20 or so amateurs were trying out different organ models. Maybe a scene like this was the inspiration for this ‘transcription’? 😂
In short: what Bruckner didn't write isn't Bruckner. What Bruckner wrote is enough.
If these transcriptions were of the level of Liszt's Beethoven symphony transcriptions played by Cyprien Katsaris, no one would even care they're not fully original Bruckner.
The completionism of this...he does 00, 0, the overture in G minor...the 9th with completed finale...and much more...everything he can think of. Well, the man loves his Bruckner.
Why not the Mahler symphonies transcribed for flugelhorn and marimba?
Omitting the kazoo wouldn't do them justice. What else is going to replace the cowbells?
I'd buy it.
Your videos are wonderful.
Glad you like them! Thank you.
I saw this pop up on the Presto Music app a couple of weeks ago. I actually said out loud, "Ughhhhh... Who on EARTH would want to hear that?!" My dog had no good answer. Even though it was "free," I still didn't listen to a single second of it. Not until your musical example, which lived down to my expectations!
I just imagined the Italian Symphony on the organ, and now I have PTSD.
Hate to bring it to you, but I have actually heard this (well, the Finale) in my youth. It was ... upsetting.
The many fast repeated notes in the Italian would just sound like a blur on an organ.
Someone's going to record it. And whose fault will it be?
HAHAHAHA
I'm going to be having nightmares about that for weeks.
Coming next: Bruckner-Finster. Bruckner reviews by Dave's cat. Looking forward to it ;)
A-Ha! The scarf is back! Thanks for the video, as always you're the best
For me, Bruckner's symphonies can often seem like a heaven. Here is a hell viewed through the Bruckner window. I wouldn't have believed it possible.
I just love your videos.
Me too.
The two-hand transcriptions by people like Loewe work *way* better than these ghastly organ transcriptions! The piano is just better suited to delineating orchestral textures.
Absolutely.
If one were to pick out a wedding march for a remake of the movie "Bride of Frankenstein" one would fine a great range of choices from this album set! Mine would be the Adagio from the Seventh Symphony. How ghastly.
SOMEONE DID IT AGAIN!? When will they learn?
Speaking personally, I'm a one-time orchestral player become fledgling pianist, and I'm a big fan of unlikely piano arrangements and transcriptions of larger works. Videos like these (this marks three videos dedicated to schmucks playing Bruckner on the organ) help instill in me a healthy fear of getting a little too ambitious with transcriptions.
I generally enjoy transcriptions, including organ transcriptions of orchestral works, but mostly as curiosities.
I think part of the artistic freedom is to experiment with transcriptions. It always exposes a different aspect of the composition. For the record, I think the organ transcription of the coda that David sampled was gorgeous.
The album is ambitious and interesting. It takes nothing away from the original compositions.
@@T4Tea4two have you heard the transcription of Sheherazade for piano? Wow, what a concept!
@poturbg8698 huh, I'll have to look that up. Right now, I'm thinking about arranging for piano (and percussion?) excerpts from the ballet Estancia by Ginastera
The end of the first movement of the 6th sounds a bit like the Lawrence of Arabia theme. Maybe the composer was a fan of Bruckner (🐎🐎🐎).
The Lawrence theme always reminded me of Grieg's Sunrise - I thought that was even more likely when I heard that Grieg was attempting to depict a desert sunrise in the Sahara.
I think he chose the wrong type of organ. He should have transcribed Bruckner's symphonies for band organ. Band organs have percussion, so the finale of the sixth symphony could have been better realized. Also, band organs are typically found in such places as the center of a merry-go-round, which would be a suitable venue for a project as absurd as this.
PIANO FOUR HANDS -- I picked up a box of ALL the bruckner symphonies recorded for piano four hand. It was all done in a concert hall. I believe Mahler actually did one of the transcriptions. Some of it works for me, but not all of it. The textures come out too densely packed in some of the heavy passages. ...... anyway I think I also have several on another german label MD and G. (They also recorded Mahler symphonies for four hand and other things....bruno walter transcribed one of these). Again, interesting.....but....
if you like this sort of thing, naxos offers all of the Brahms orchestral music in four hand transcriptions prepared by Brahms himself. Liszt also transcribed alot of music of other composers....schubert, rossini, etc.
I've reviewed the Brahms box, which is terrific, and you can read reviews of the Mahler arrangements on ClassicsToday.com. Mahler made the piano version of Bruckner's Third (with one of his conservatory buddies). He actually owned the manuscript score of the work.
I imagine taking on such a project requires an important investment of time, effort and determination on the part of the organist: making the transcriptions, studying and then recording them. So one wouldn't do it if one were not totally convinced of its validity. That makes me wonder what motivated Mr. Albrecht to dedicate an important chunk of his life to this, considering the questionable foundations of the whole enterprise.
Most of the transcriptions were not made by him. It was a group folly.
I think we have the first "ALD" nominee.
Hey, if you're lucky, next year you'll have another set to review: the Bruckner Symphonies on Organ in the (late) William Carragan editions.🤣
I enjoyed this presentation, as I enjoyed so many of them (even if I do not always agree): the wit and the humor carry me along. -- I do have a question, though: are you against ALL transcriptions? So many composers have done arrangements of others' (or their own) works for different instruments (I'm thinking of Liszt's Berlioz and Rachmaninoff's Bach, to give two examples). And then there are the Stokowski transcriptions/arrangements of Bach organ works and the like for full symphony orchestra. Are these of no value or interest? -- This is how I tend to view this Bruckner project: not so much that the performer wishes to show how 'organic' (if you'll excuse the pun) Bruckner's symphonies are, as to present the music in a new light by performing it in a different medium. To many of us who love the Bruckner symphonies, this may seem to be a travesty...but it could also serve to introduce Bruckner to an audience that flocks to organ recitals, but would never darken the hall of an orchestral concert. -- I'd be interested to hear you on the subject of transcriptions in general, and, if you have no critical objections to transcriptions, why, specifically, this Bruckner project falls into such a different category....
I have made dozens of videos about wonderful transcriptions--I just made one a few days ago (Brahms on Reference Recordings). Each has to be evaluated on its own merits. I was very clear on why this project is terrible and I was careful not to make sweeping generalizations about transcriptions more broadly.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for taking the time to answer my question... I guess I haven't been watching enough of your postings to have realized this... I appreciate the clarification and regret my error...
hmm. I may have to rethink my prospective Mahler cycle transcribed for 5-string ukulele
Right, I’m off to transcribe a version of the Turangalila Symphony for ukulele, spoons and harmonica…
He is some sort of serial criminal. He also recorded the transcriptions for organ of The Four Seasons and Pictures at an Exhibition.
Great breakdown on the recordings and approaches. Not gonna lie, I'd buy that recording for a dollar if it showed up in the bargain bin. I didn't hate what I heard, but also have no compelling interest in having it. At this point, one of the Bruckner mavens needs to legally change his/her name to Bruckner and compose new stuff under that name because the abiding need to have new non-existent works by Bruckner seems an insatiable one to them.
Which makes me think, what are some symphonies by other composers that have something of a Brucknerian air about them? A few that spring to mind are Stenhammar 1, Tyberg 3, Furtwängler 2, Rautavaara 3, Flury 1, bits of Diamond 2, Wetz 2...
'...buy that recording for a dollar'. Made me chuckle. You'd have to pay me to even touch that monstrosity.
I used to lead an amateur orchestra and the conductor wanted to do The Rite with just a string quartet for the string section. Watch out for those divisi passages.He would have to book Ricci to handle the quadruple stopping.
A double scarf-effort if ever there was one ! Bring on the scarlet&white 🙃
Dave: If you're passing out the scarves this early in the year, this must be ghastly indeed. There's no way I want to buy this; life's too short.
Whenever you do a massive pan like this, I always have an extreme bout of curiosity, much like people who can not take their eyes off of a car wreck. So of course I cued up Allbrecht's version of the 1st movement of the 4th symphony. I think that there are actually organ tropes in Bruckner's symphonies, and I think that it is actually interesting to hear them played on the organ, for example the chorale section in the development. However, the vast majority of the music is just not suitable for the organ. The spot that put a dagger in my heart was the cello counter-melody right at the beginning of the recap. I played the cello in a performance of this recently, and this spot is generally our chance to shine, super-espressivo. In Albrecht's version, it was barely audible and made no impression. I am not sure if it was the instrument or the performer, but I am guessing a combination of both.
I'm just imagining the scherzo of symphony 4, or any of them tbh. Played on the organ...😮
There's a couple of organ transcriptions by Gerd Schaller. Suffering from the same fundamental problems, though. Quite boring, you are right...
Yes, I've heard them. Organists are a strange lot...
Next time don't be so polite. Don't hold back. Really tell us what you feel. Oh, and thanks for the several loud laughs.
So, when companies make these organ recordings of symphonic works, who exactly is audience for this? It would seem this would only appeal to organists?
I wanted to build my new house with three feet-thick stone walls. I now hear that Bruckner symphonies played on the organ would have been thicker. Yuck.
Thank you for countering that asinine idea about Bruckner's orchestration sounding like the organ. It's nothing but an assumption presented as a conclusion.
I have yet to hear any recording of any version of any Bruckner symphony that sounds “organ-y.”
Oh...please Joe...say it isn't so!!!
This leads to the interesting thought experiment of what ensemble would make an even worse re-orchestration of Bruckner... Somehow I think even a recorder ensemble could do the symphonies more justice than the organ
Recorder ensembles are sort of like organs with fewer options for large contrasts (different stops) but more nuance (vibrato that can vary continuously, different kinds of note attacks, portamento, etc.). Long stretches of organ music usually irk me in their lack of nuance, so I'm inclined to agree. It still wouldn't be idiomatic, but it could have musical phrasing.
I would take a recorder ensemble over organ in just about anything, let alone a Bruckner transcription. Then again, I play recorder :)
Me, as a Bruckner listener who loves his symphonies doesnt care what version is being played, just happy to stick with Jochum. What a terrible idea to play his music on the organ, whats the use of it?!
Did you mean
Ghastly, Bruckner Symphonies on the Organ
or
Ghastly Bruckner Symphonies, on the Organ
Take your pick.
Out of morbid curiosity, I had to give these a listen, and unless you're an organ nerd interested in arranging for that instrument, I don't understand the point or what they're supposed to add to the listening experience. You may as well just transcribe the symphonies for these cheap little Casio keyboards that kids got as Christmas presents in the 80's. In fairness, I've never much liked organ music (insert dirty joke here), but these sound pretty silly.
Do we hear arrangements of Bach cantatas for organ? NO! Never mind that Bach was himself a great organist and a great composer in general. Bach wrote his vocal-and-orchestral cantatas for instruments and voices then at hand.
Another angle.
I wonder if this recording project was financed by a government subsidy/grant?
It had many sponsors, evidently.
To be honest, I feel much the same way about 99.9% of all the piano transcriptions too. I never understood the people who think that if you can do it on a piano (this poor instrument which has become s Jack of all trades and it shouldn't have) then you should do it.
And really most transcriptions are futile, I rarely hear something that doesn't brutally diminish the value of the original.
As for this one, maybe... maybe it wouldn't be quite as bad as it is, if it was done by someone who's not an offspring of the German organ school. That school has a limited number of things that it can do right, but otherwise it's boring, dogmatic and overly scholastic.
And I say that as a fanatic, whose favorite instrument happens to be the organ.
It really depends on who makes the transcription. If done by a genius, like Liszt or Brahms, then we really have something.
Something tells me you are not the greatest fan of organ transcriptions…
You would be wrong. I enjoy them tremendously and have said so many times. Don't make assumptions based on limited evidence. I dislike dreadful transcriptions.
That organ clip from the 6th is painful. Just doesn’t work at all to do these symphonies as organ music. Weak-kneed and for the weak-minded.