That tracking test funniness is why you see people hitting their acogs with mags post adjustment. Its so ingrained in me that i hit all turrets post adjustment
This explains a lot about my TA31. I’m always confused how the ACOG has so many fans but the ELCAN SpectreDR 1-4x, which is superior in every possible way, is split down the middle. There’s so many untrustworthy reviewers so this channel is gold.
I think your channel has become my go to for optic reviews. Focusing on the optic and letting us the viewers see it, is what differentiates you from alot of the other guntubers. The sooner you partner with eurooptic or some company like that the better.
I thought I wanted a TA33 at one point until I finally understood why they made it. The TA31 has bad eye relief, especially if you were forced into using iron sights, but with proper Mount it's not terrible. The TA33 was the response to this and they simply went way too far the other way. Eye relief for days but an absolutely dismal FOV. The TA11 is a great blend, just wish they could have made it a bit lighter.
FOV doesnt matter as both eyes are open. You can still see everything in front of you looking around the optic. I'm looking through mine now and if I block the end of the scope I can see 100% my normal FOV. If something is moving but the scope is not focused on it you will still see though your other eye and peripheral vision
Ever have to deal with their customer service? It’s amazing! I had a suppressor high night sights and the front one sheered off when my pistol fell from my safe. I called and they sent me one for free no questions asked except the model. It was incredible. I love em
@@user-mj1vb8jr6jever dealt with the never ending death spiral of shiite of a product that trijicon never should have put out? My MRO remembers...which is why I sold it for a loss and don't regret it... even given the loss. Was just glad someone took it off my hands. Edit: This reviewer literally DID send it to Trij CS and they BS'd the event.
C_Does, love the video. 3 comments: 1) Delta34 is a great dude with a great channel. 2) Trijicon makes some great stuff but some of their product line (ACOG TA31, Accupoint) desperately needs mid-life upgrades, and some are just evolutionary dead ends. The 1.5x, 2x and 3x ACOGs made sense before magnifiers and microprisms came around. A 1.0x ACOG prism would be neat. 3) Trijicon seems to have had some QC escapes as of late. I know a guy on Discord who had internal debris on the prism of his TA02. Manufacturing after 2020 has seen QC plummet. If it works though it tends to be bomb-proof; Delta34 blew up an ACOG and it still worked.
@@PastorDr.MartinSsempa Sorry to hear about it! The guy who had debris on his did get it successfully fixed by Trijicon and loves it, so I hope you will too. Also, I loved your interview where you asked “Why are you gay?” Truly a question which should be asked more often.
The TA33 is an interesting choice for a first ACOG review. On one hand, it's one of my favorite models- but it's also very unconventional. You might have been better served looking at a TA31 or TA11, which present more like traditional rifle scopes. The TA33 has a different philosophy of use, where you shoot with both eyes open and it's more akin to a magnified red dot than a scope. I wouldn't want to use it for scanning and identifying targets, for example. But it's great for quickly getting on target to hit something you've already identified. The "killer feature" on the TA33 is not actually its long eye relief, but it's ridiculously forgiving eye box. It's nearly impossible to lose the reticle and image to scope shadow, which means it's also very fast for snap shooting (and it's also workable in front of night vision). That said, your comparison to the SLx 3x isn't wrong. The SLx is a great little prism optic (I have one, too), and it's a huge value. The TA33 has been around since 2007, so of course I would expect someone else to figure out how to improve on a 16 year old design and reduce costs. The fact that Trijicon continues charging what they do for the ACOGs despite not adding modern improvements like battery illumination across the whole line (TA02 and TA110 notwithstanding), adjustable eye pieces, or windage marks in the reticle is silly.
I did a simplified tracking test on my ta31 a few weeks ago. I didn't have the chart, but I mounted it in a vise and used my neighbor's garage door as reference. So I can only confirm accurate tracking in the vertical using the reticle, but I can also see that mine did not jump around all over the place like in the video. Mine generally tracks in the direction of adjustment without jumping or sticking. I have a ta33 I can test as well but haven't got around to it.
Service member here. One of the reasons the ACOG gets so much love is because often the only other option was iron sights. Compared to iron sights a TA31RCO-A4CP was like having a cheat code.
My ACOGs have always zeroed differently than they should per instructions. Usually the adjustments are about half as fine as they should be and it seems like some adjustments adjust more than others. It’s not like it’s an optic I’ll be dialing, but it’s still a bit obnoxious. And yeah, tapping the optic between zeroing adjustments is common. It even used to be recommended in the army zeroing procedure.
Both my really old model from the army (crosshair with 1/3 adjustments) and my later ta31 have a problem of not counting clicks and then double counting. I always thought it got stuck and hitting it vibrated it to set it to where it should be but I'm not an expert but instead an ape wailing on a small prism with a mag to give me my zero
Ive been really wanting a 4x ACOG to replace my PA 5x prism (not the micro), but I really do not wanna spend $850-$1100 on an optic that doesnt zero consistently. The glass quality in the ACOG is better, and I really want tritium, but besides that, the PA prism I have really isnt bad. Maybe I'll just save my money, run the PA til it breaks, and buy an Elcan...
How are you like in the Elcan? I wanted the Elcan over the acog. I really dig the 1or 4 option. The only thing that makes me look towards Acog, the ARMA mounts are notoriously shit. All that money and then they had to include the cheapest mounting system available
I got two TA50 on sale by government buyback to europtic. The TA50 is a better TA33 in my eyes as it achieves the same thing with smaller size and weight, same eye relief and eyebox, and slightly bigger fov (not by much) The first I received was a super beat up fiber amber with simple crosshair and no bdc. I could tell it was generations behind the next one I got with red crosshair bdc but the older one had a better eyebox and more eye relief. I gave that one away as a christmas present and kept my newer TA50 and put it on a WWSD inspired lightweight build but to be honest.... I woulda been better off with just getting the SLX.
I can just picture you watching Marie Kondo surrounded by gear only to later go through all of you optics asking yourself if they strike joy in your heart 😂
Ok, I think i figured out the 'tracking' issue. It's only when you crank on the adjusters really fast that the reticle does the jumping around. When you clicked through slowly, it moved fine. The USMC marksmanship manual says this: Adjusting the optic is a precision exercise and should be performed by- • Moving the adjusters slowly. And the US Army FM 3-22.9 says: NOTE: To ensure a consistent zero, tap the scope with the palm of your hand to stabilize the adjustment mechanism after an adjustment has been made, and then fire a three-shot group on the target.
you have to test the 4x32 Led version, you must! then you will understand. ;) unfortunately I can't lend you mine because i live in Europe and i am also way too attached to my acog. in europe this things cost almost twice the price. I paid for mine over 2000 euros ! Still, best purchase I've ever made since I started getting into guns.
I use two TA31s, and a TA33 on an SBR. I tap the turrets while zeroing (which has been done for 30 years). The TA33 is great for its intended use, and people need to understand what they are purchasing when buying an ACOG. Zero it and your done. I also own a PA micro 3x and GLX 2x. Love them all. But the ACOGs stay on my serious use guns. ETA. If you want to see why i pay $1000 for 30 year old technology go watch deltathirtyfours videos like Cdoes said.... (Holding zero and maintaining usability under EXTREME conditions)
Would be nicer to have the comparison done at the same time, I mean...view and color from SLx3x looks significantly dimmer....I was shocked, until I saw the differences in shadow casting on that roof. Pretty sure Trijicon does better on durability and glass quality, but it appears they have not been having a real competitor for way too long. Ironically, fits an old Chinese saying: Life springs from sorrow and calamity; death comes from ease and pleasure.
When I was in the Marines they specifically told me smack it when zeroing to “set” the prism into its new position when I made adjustments. Once it was set my zero went unchanged from 2012 until I left in 2015 (I did plenty of shooting during those three years). I think you’re asking for something it wasn’t designed to do.
So if it's not designed to have good tracking then trijicon should own up to it and explain it instead of copping out and outright lying about it with "It's your mount"
Long reviews are your style i do not mind. Even though i have no need for an acog i watched the whole thing, why because they are good reviews regardless. When you showed the reticle (break dancing) I said the same thing WTF is that. funiest review ever of a scope!
I thought I was crazy when I was zeroing my ACOG but I definitely experienced the same wacky tracking when clicking the turrets around. I have 100% clicked four to six times and had the reticle not move or move in a different direction. Sometimes when I'm making small adjustments I'll click 10 times to the right and then 8 times to the left to try to get the radical to go where I'm trying to move it.
You should have a White Paper like Aaron Cowan from Sage Dynamics, where you compile all the optics you've reviewed and have a rating and some thoughts written down for each
There’s nothing wrong with the adjustments. These don’t track like a normal scope. The prism is held against the erectors through spring tension. When an adjustment is made with the turrets sometimes the springs can hang up which is what causes the tracking issues you are noting in your video. Simply tapping the rifle against a table, using a small mallet, or firing a shot or two off target will settle the prism to show you the true position of the reticle. These are not meant to be dialed for correction . The scope should be zeroed and then left alone, using the reticle to adjust for range.
Great vid. Have seen multiple comments/reviews about over bright reticles based on sighting location but never the reticle issues, well done. You should send a copy of this video to Trujicon and ask them to explain how the mount causes this issue. Maybe the military had started seeing issue with QC also and went to LPVO option. But since they had the mil contract there was no incentive to modernize the sight. There are aftermarket options to control fiber optic overbright. Like some commenters I also was thinking about the acog for a AR but with the cost and I think they are way behind other modern sights, cant do it. Why they dont have led as a part of all these models I dont get. I understand the military guys used them. I'm retired military but there are better options. IF you are gonna be a "shooter" in real life, maybe just maybe you need something "private snuffy" proof but if not I don't see it. Maybe since no more mil contract for trujicon they will have to change to meet civilian market needs or fade away. I was also thinking vcog but the price of that scope is ridiculous to the max. Can just get a Vortex or the new SIG DVO. If they break can get another one under warranty or buy another for less total cost. Will be curious to see how trujicon adapts to the new market without military contract.
Further proof that government contracts are not the end all be all. One of the biggest factors in getting a government contract is being the lowest bidder. Not a ringing endorsement. That is something you dont normally hear about. Of course ACOG's will always have their fan base because they were used in the military and some swear by them. Proof that you can adjust to anything if that is your only option. Anytime I see an ACOG review it is usually lacking when compared to the competition despite always being much more expensive. Now I understand that they are bomb proof and there is a lot to be said for that given its intended purpose. Disclaimer - I never owned an ACOG, and I never had to have my life depend on an optic so I am not speaking with first hand experience, but for the civilian who is not putting his life on the line I believe there to be better options just according to what I have read/seen.
I like my ta31 acog, but if primary arms made an actually solid mount for a vertically mounted red dot above their microprisms, I'd go for that every day of the week
Awesome video. I thank you in advance for saving me many hours of frustration when i get out to use mine. I'd be freaking out thinking it's me otherwise. 🤣🤔 😳🙄
As an acog owner that's lame....like trijicons excuse......but your cramps made my day....... I'm surprised I never noticed anything when zeroing mine. ...but like you said I've only zeroed it once and never touched the turrets
I think the point of hitting it was to do it after you make an adjustment. Such as when you moved the reticle left, and lost 3 MOA. Would have been curious if you tapped at that point if the elevation returned to normal. I have TA02 ACOG, and personally have not done a tracking test like this. However, when Zeroing it, if I either tap the knobs, or send a round to “set” the erectors, haven’t had an issue zeroing. But this TA33 example seems to be a bit wonky for sure.
I’ve had a similar experience with the ta33’s tracking but on the other hand my favorite optic is the ta11 and I don’t have the same tracking issues with it.
As EverydayMarksman said the true benefit of the TA33 is that it's easier to use for quick shots with both eyes open because of the smaller tube you are looking through which yes you do give up field of view for it but higher powered binoculars, a monocular or a rangefinder is better for scanning a large area anyways. I almost bought the SLx 3x until I watched FocusTripp do a drop test and saw that the zero got knocked way off by 25 to 30 MOA and he only dropped it from shoulder height. I have yet to see an SLx actually be torture tested to anywhere near the same extent as the ACOG has so while it is a lot cheaper it's also not going to be near as tough as the ACOG. Range worthy and combat worthy are not the same thing. It depends on just how tough someone wants their optic to be and if it's actually worth the extra you have to pay to get it. While the ACOG does have a goofy zeroing process once it's zeroed it stays put which is more important in a combat worthy optic. One of the benefits of a prism optic is it doesn’t rely on separate rings like an LPVO which is a weak point but if the prism optic doesn’t maintain zero after the same impacts which would mess up an LPVO’s zero then there’s no real advantage to the mounting system. This is one of the reason the Marines use the VCOG instead of a normal LPVO. The ACOGs and the VCOG are about as tough as you can get for a magnified optic that is mounted to something that gets banged around a lot more than a hunting rifle or a dedicated sniper rifle. The ACOG might be an old design and might lack some of the features that others have but it's still in a league of its own.
SO disappointing! From the optic to the company, all bad. I was seriously considering getting one of these, guess Ill stick with the Chinese "junk". Thanks for all your great vids.
I would run one of these an a ar pistol. Not a gpr but somewhat of a cqb style optic with an rmr on top, almost like having a red dot and magnifier. Mostly run it for the rmr and if I need to take a more precise shot then I can look through the acog.
I would not get any of the compact ACOGs including the 1.5x16 that seems to get some love for whatever reason. I am a GLx 2x owner who would not buy any of the new SLx microprisms. I like my prisms big. The 4x32 ACOG is amazing, and eye relief is not an issue if you have a nice mount setup. This optic with an RDS is still the best set up for a mid-range rifle.
Mr. SeaDoo. You should really see if you can get your hands on an Element Immersive 5x prism. Its kinda big and heavy but, imho, it is REALLY impressive for ~$500.
I love my TA33. They are very underrated. Eye box and weight is awesome. People see the narrow FOV on paper, but in reality you keep both eyes open so it's a non issue. Don't need the piggyback as it's fast to look through
Sorry if this comment has been spammed... but you tap the turrets, not the body. Does it work? No idea, but I've never not done it and they've all zeroed ok for me.
Yeah, Trijicon gonna have to eat a turd sammich on this review. Thats pathetic "QC" for a returned item. I have a coiple Trijicon optics, and won't waste my time sending them in for warranty work or buying amy more. Too many good choices out there these days, its not 2005 anymore.
The first ACOG model TA01 was released in 1987. That makes this design 36 years old (Looking forward to your review of Laser Disks for movies.) While both designs were excellent for their time, we have a lot more cost effective solutions today. The design has had longevity because of its ease of use and reliability. Take into account that a 100 dollar clone of this design can accomplish the same thing, so it lives on based on its battle experience. If you are looking to repel down a helicopter or jump out of an airplane then this is the product for you, but also note that the military has since migrated away from this design.
You should read the manual that comes with the TA33. The eye relief is 3.6” per the manual. I have two of them. In reality it’s more like 5”. You lose almost zero fov until you get beyond 5”. Long eye relief plus narrow fov is just physics. There is no way in hell the PA has more eye relief than the TA33. I own multiples of both. FOV and scope body of the TA33, and also the TA47, shine in run n gun type events, ie real world situations these optics were designed for. A large FOV and and large scope body blocking your peripheral vision suck. Try using the optic in one of your .22 matches and you’ll understand what I mean. Try using it as a magnified micro red dot. You’ll get it then.
Yeah, I don’t think he does the kind of shooting where the lower magnification acogs shine. The ta33 is honestly the most useful acog to use for more than static observation and things like that.
@@user-vv9lr2rw5dYep. The TA31 and TA11 are great for observation in like Afghanistan or in a tree stand during hunting season, but not run n gun type events.
I have the slx3x, looking at the comparison between the slx 3x and ta33, the glass in the trijicon is clearly better, but other than that, i cant see many reasons to go with the ta33 over the slx 3x.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZ I dunno, I have a 5x SLx, and am not easy on it. Plenty of scuffs, chips, etc on the optic, and its been fine, still it. I'm sure I could break it if I tried, and I dunno if its "bombproof", but its been plenty durable for things like hiking, camping, drills, etc.
Thank you very much for this video. As far as I know, the selling point of the Acogs is that they are extremely simple, strong and reliable, and that users can rely on them even in very harsh conditions and tough use. Elcan has similar selling arguments. These are not characteristics that can be tested on a peaceful day with a lot of time to compare them with other optics.
As a Trijicon fanboy it’s good to see an honest review. I think a lot of their reputation is carried by the venerable TA31 which I have and is outstanding if it works for you. However my TA110c 3.5x I bought brand new broke from 5.56 recoil after 400 rounds. Internal prism shifted so far you can’t look through it. It’s currently at Trijicon being fixed but it makes me wonder how common issues are with their other models. Still love acogs but it so far doesn’t seem all acogs are equal
@llhosall7735,’ Your comment is not giving me much hope. I am looking for that “go-to shtf” scope. With Trijicons rep for toughness, vcog was looking good. Then, I saw a video where under recoil alone, the reticle shifted. “No way” then I turned to the acog, less moving parts inside, I thought. And now I’m reading this about your experience. I hate to say it but minus the crappy mounting system, I might turn back to the Elcan...🤦🏻
@@ridnthawave708 I’ve never heard of a problem with the ta31 or ta02 Don’t overthink it there isn’t an optic without issues Elcan and acogs are the most durable there are full stop If there was something obviously better we would buy something that wasn’t 30+ years old
Appreciate the response! I agree. It’s frustrating trying to find that be all optic. All week I’ve been debating about the ta110, I like the idea of battery. I’d go ta 31, but, man, coming from lpvo, that eye relief....
@@ridnthawave708 yeah imo if you just go offset irons the eye relief is easy to get used to I think it’s actually a bit further than 1.5 and you can always get the mount that extends it even further back Or if you have 2 grands the Elcan is great And also I love the ta110 I have hardly found anyone else having issues with it I’m just unlucky I suppose 😂
@@ridnthawave708 because a prism shift is a QC issue or fluke not a design flaw They are insanely durable you should check out their manufacturing process
The RCO is not much better. We would smack them too after adjusting and confirm. Never knew why until now. It also explains why elevation would change after adjusting windage. I always figured it was me sucking at life. Eye relief also blew and liked to kiss your eye pro. The chevron was stupid as it was infinitely precise at ranges where it did not matter. At ranges where it would matter, you didn’t use the chevron to aim. You were left with a fat useless red triangle. The ACOG was good when it came out, but in classic Trijicon style, they never improved or innovated on the product. The Elcan is a much stronger performing prism.
I really love my TA31 and hope you get the chance to review one of those as well. Totally different animal. That said I’ll probably grab one of the GLx 2x for my 300BLK
Please test other ACOGs, i really need to see if they have similar tracking issues. I don't have a fixture to properly test mine, maybe i should craft something. Seeing this is extremely concerning.
Trijicon really blew a branded accessory merchandising opportunity by not selling a Trijicon-branded zeroing hammer.
ROFL. Literally.
Hahahahaha…a zeroing hammer
🤣🤣🤣
That tracking test funniness is why you see people hitting their acogs with mags post adjustment. Its so ingrained in me that i hit all turrets post adjustment
@@flopus7 nothing but the best!
This explains a lot about my TA31. I’m always confused how the ACOG has so many fans but the ELCAN SpectreDR 1-4x, which is superior in every possible way, is split down the middle. There’s so many untrustworthy reviewers so this channel is gold.
Elcan on my Hellion, love it.
@@godsdozer A man of culture. My Elcan is easily a mile ahead of all my other optics.
Probably because of the A.R.M.S. Mounts.
@@JEJAK5396 Yeah, they certainly blow.
A 4x ACOG with RMR weighs half a pound less than the Specter DR.
Great video. Glad you got to run the ta33. Maybe we gotta get you a few more :) TY for the love!
Give him a TA02!
You should
I think your channel has become my go to for optic reviews. Focusing on the optic and letting us the viewers see it, is what differentiates you from alot of the other guntubers. The sooner you partner with eurooptic or some company like that the better.
I thought I wanted a TA33 at one point until I finally understood why they made it. The TA31 has bad eye relief, especially if you were forced into using iron sights, but with proper Mount it's not terrible. The TA33 was the response to this and they simply went way too far the other way. Eye relief for days but an absolutely dismal FOV. The TA11 is a great blend, just wish they could have made it a bit lighter.
Take a look at an Element Immersive 5x prism.
It basically demonstrates that Trijicon is mostly incompetent.
FOV doesnt matter as both eyes are open. You can still see everything in front of you looking around the optic. I'm looking through mine now and if I block the end of the scope I can see 100% my normal FOV. If something is moving but the scope is not focused on it you will still see though your other eye and peripheral vision
Good luck getting Trijicon to ever admit something they made is defective
Laughs in MRO
Ever have to deal with their customer service? It’s amazing! I had a suppressor high night sights and the front one sheered off when my pistol fell from my safe. I called and they sent me one for free no questions asked except the model. It was incredible. I love em
@@user-mj1vb8jr6jever dealt with the never ending death spiral of shiite of a product that trijicon never should have put out? My MRO remembers...which is why I sold it for a loss and don't regret it... even given the loss. Was just glad someone took it off my hands.
Edit: This reviewer literally DID send it to Trij CS and they BS'd the event.
I’ll be discussing the turret/prism movement in a future video. Very cool section on this.
same experience here, tracking is terrible, anything else about this tiny glass i actually love
C_Does, love the video. 3 comments:
1) Delta34 is a great dude with a great channel.
2) Trijicon makes some great stuff but some of their product line (ACOG TA31, Accupoint) desperately needs mid-life upgrades, and some are just evolutionary dead ends. The 1.5x, 2x and 3x ACOGs made sense before magnifiers and microprisms came around. A 1.0x ACOG prism would be neat.
3) Trijicon seems to have had some QC escapes as of late. I know a guy on Discord who had internal debris on the prism of his TA02. Manufacturing after 2020 has seen QC plummet. If it works though it tends to be bomb-proof; Delta34 blew up an ACOG and it still worked.
After reading this comment I checked the ta02 I just bought on Black Friday and it has debris inside of it. My ta31d is fine though.
@@PastorDr.MartinSsempa Sorry to hear about it! The guy who had debris on his did get it successfully fixed by Trijicon and loves it, so I hope you will too. Also, I loved your interview where you asked “Why are you gay?” Truly a question which should be asked more often.
@@seraph045 I see you are a cultured man as well.
The TA33 is an interesting choice for a first ACOG review. On one hand, it's one of my favorite models- but it's also very unconventional. You might have been better served looking at a TA31 or TA11, which present more like traditional rifle scopes. The TA33 has a different philosophy of use, where you shoot with both eyes open and it's more akin to a magnified red dot than a scope. I wouldn't want to use it for scanning and identifying targets, for example. But it's great for quickly getting on target to hit something you've already identified. The "killer feature" on the TA33 is not actually its long eye relief, but it's ridiculously forgiving eye box. It's nearly impossible to lose the reticle and image to scope shadow, which means it's also very fast for snap shooting (and it's also workable in front of night vision).
That said, your comparison to the SLx 3x isn't wrong. The SLx is a great little prism optic (I have one, too), and it's a huge value. The TA33 has been around since 2007, so of course I would expect someone else to figure out how to improve on a 16 year old design and reduce costs. The fact that Trijicon continues charging what they do for the ACOGs despite not adding modern improvements like battery illumination across the whole line (TA02 and TA110 notwithstanding), adjustable eye pieces, or windage marks in the reticle is silly.
+1 for windage marks!
Holy crap, I never knew the tracking was like that, but apparently, everyone here seems to say that's normal. Screw that noise
I did a simplified tracking test on my ta31 a few weeks ago. I didn't have the chart, but I mounted it in a vise and used my neighbor's garage door as reference. So I can only confirm accurate tracking in the vertical using the reticle, but I can also see that mine did not jump around all over the place like in the video. Mine generally tracks in the direction of adjustment without jumping or sticking. I have a ta33 I can test as well but haven't got around to it.
after this i need PA to make a PLX prism
Delta34 is a champion! Nice collab
Service member here. One of the reasons the ACOG gets so much love is because often the only other option was iron sights.
Compared to iron sights a TA31RCO-A4CP was like having a cheat code.
The Trijicon fanboy in me is weeping 😢. Great to see you and Delta34 collaborating.
My ACOGs have always zeroed differently than they should per instructions. Usually the adjustments are about half as fine as they should be and it seems like some adjustments adjust more than others. It’s not like it’s an optic I’ll be dialing, but it’s still a bit obnoxious.
And yeah, tapping the optic between zeroing adjustments is common. It even used to be recommended in the army zeroing procedure.
Both my really old model from the army (crosshair with 1/3 adjustments) and my later ta31 have a problem of not counting clicks and then double counting. I always thought it got stuck and hitting it vibrated it to set it to where it should be but I'm not an expert but instead an ape wailing on a small prism with a mag to give me my zero
My TA11 is the same way lol. Pain in the ass to be sure
Wtf?
That reticle movement is livingnin crazytown
Please talk to delta34 and get one of the good acogs like ta11, ta31, or preferably the led variants the ta110 and ta02
TA11 all day
Awesome to see a collaboration with D34! You and him are the two best optic reviewers out there!
Hands down best optic reviews on YT. Keep them coming.
Ive been really wanting a 4x ACOG to replace my PA 5x prism (not the micro), but I really do not wanna spend $850-$1100 on an optic that doesnt zero consistently. The glass quality in the ACOG is better, and I really want tritium, but besides that, the PA prism I have really isnt bad. Maybe I'll just save my money, run the PA til it breaks, and buy an Elcan...
you could amazon return scam if you're brave enough
Now imagine paying at least 2000€ (currently 2181.48$) for one abroad. Not having decent clicks for that and hitting it to work...no way I'd pay that.
U dont need it man.
Update: bought an elcan spectre 1-4, it fuccs
How are you like in the Elcan?
I wanted the Elcan over the acog. I really dig the 1or 4 option.
The only thing that makes me look towards Acog, the ARMA mounts are notoriously shit. All that money and then they had to include the cheapest mounting system available
Ta11 is the best ACOG
Excellent review. The optic is clearly flawed.
Do the longer videos! The reason I watch is because you go deep into detail!!!
D34 is legit. Love to see some collaborations between you guys.
I got two TA50 on sale by government buyback to europtic. The TA50 is a better TA33 in my eyes as it achieves the same thing with smaller size and weight, same eye relief and eyebox, and slightly bigger fov (not by much) The first I received was a super beat up fiber amber with simple crosshair and no bdc. I could tell it was generations behind the next one I got with red crosshair bdc but the older one had a better eyebox and more eye relief. I gave that one away as a christmas present and kept my newer TA50 and put it on a WWSD inspired lightweight build but to be honest.... I woulda been better off with just getting the SLX.
I can just picture you watching Marie Kondo surrounded by gear only to later go through all of you optics asking yourself if they strike joy in your heart 😂
I need to do that!
Ok, I think i figured out the 'tracking' issue. It's only when you crank on the adjusters really fast that the reticle does the jumping around. When you clicked through slowly, it moved fine. The USMC marksmanship manual says this: Adjusting the optic is a precision exercise and should be performed by-
• Moving the adjusters slowly.
And the US Army FM 3-22.9 says: NOTE: To ensure a consistent zero, tap the scope with the palm of your hand to stabilize the
adjustment mechanism after an adjustment has been made, and then fire a three-shot group on
the target.
you have to test the 4x32 Led version, you must! then you will understand. ;)
unfortunately I can't lend you mine because i live in Europe and i am also way too attached to my acog. in europe this things cost almost twice the price. I paid for mine over 2000 euros ! Still, best purchase I've ever made since I started getting into guns.
I use two TA31s, and a TA33 on an SBR. I tap the turrets while zeroing (which has been done for 30 years). The TA33 is great for its intended use, and people need to understand what they are purchasing when buying an ACOG. Zero it and your done. I also own a PA micro 3x and GLX 2x. Love them all. But the ACOGs stay on my serious use guns.
ETA. If you want to see why i pay $1000 for 30 year old technology go watch deltathirtyfours videos like Cdoes said.... (Holding zero and maintaining usability under EXTREME conditions)
Would be nicer to have the comparison done at the same time, I mean...view and color from SLx3x looks significantly dimmer....I was shocked, until I saw the differences in shadow casting on that roof.
Pretty sure Trijicon does better on durability and glass quality, but it appears they have not been having a real competitor for way too long. Ironically, fits an old Chinese saying: Life springs from sorrow and calamity; death comes from ease and pleasure.
That looked frustrating when you adjusted elevation and wind-age.
Keep doing your reviews the old way we always loved. Thank you
The windage and elevation adjustments on this move like a plastic $12 BB gun "scope".
The only scope I regret selling is my old ACOG with the bible verse on it. *edit* was NOT ready for that plot twist!
Haven’t finished the video yet, but my 2022 manufactured ta01nsn has the JN 8:12 on it
When I was in the Marines they specifically told me smack it when zeroing to “set” the prism into its new position when I made adjustments. Once it was set my zero went unchanged from 2012 until I left in 2015 (I did plenty of shooting during those three years). I think you’re asking for something it wasn’t designed to do.
So if it's not designed to have good tracking then trijicon should own up to it and explain it instead of copping out and outright lying about it with "It's your mount"
I think it’s in their FAQs, don’t buy an ACOG I do not care.
I like the voice over most of the time with more views of the product
Moves windage: 📈⬆️⬇️🔃👀😂😅☠️👍
Long reviews are your style i do not mind. Even though i have no need for an acog i watched the whole thing, why because they are good reviews regardless. When you showed the reticle (break dancing) I said the same thing WTF is that. funiest review ever of a scope!
A tracking test on a prism optic? This should be interesting. That's like testing 0-60 and 1/4 mile on a Zamboni.
I would like to do this test. BTW the top speed of a Zamboni is about 10 mph, while it can run a quarter-mile in 93.5 seconds.
I've heard Trijicon's warranty is hit or miss. Not something confidence inspiring.
I thought I was crazy when I was zeroing my ACOG but I definitely experienced the same wacky tracking when clicking the turrets around. I have 100% clicked four to six times and had the reticle not move or move in a different direction. Sometimes when I'm making small adjustments I'll click 10 times to the right and then 8 times to the left to try to get the radical to go where I'm trying to move it.
I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing that
I think I’ll take my vortex 1-6 I got for 1300 shmeckles.
You should have a White Paper like Aaron Cowan from Sage Dynamics, where you compile all the optics you've reviewed and have a rating and some thoughts written down for each
you got to do a TA31 if you get a chance.
You are just the BEST C_DOES. Great as usual.
Ooof that tracking issue is atrocious
There’s nothing wrong with the adjustments. These don’t track like a normal scope. The prism is held against the erectors through spring tension. When an adjustment is made with the turrets sometimes the springs can hang up which is what causes the tracking issues you are noting in your video. Simply tapping the rifle against a table, using a small mallet, or firing a shot or two off target will settle the prism to show you the true position of the reticle. These are not meant to be dialed for correction . The scope should be zeroed and then left alone, using the reticle to adjust for range.
Great vid. Have seen multiple comments/reviews about over bright reticles based on sighting location but never the reticle issues, well done. You should send a copy of this video to Trujicon and ask them to explain how the mount causes this issue. Maybe the military had started seeing issue with QC also and went to LPVO option. But since they had the mil contract there was no incentive to modernize the sight. There are aftermarket options to control fiber optic overbright. Like some commenters I also was thinking about the acog for a AR but with the cost and I think they are way behind other modern sights, cant do it. Why they dont have led as a part of all these models I dont get. I understand the military guys used them. I'm retired military but there are better options. IF you are gonna be a "shooter" in real life, maybe just maybe you need something "private snuffy" proof but if not I don't see it. Maybe since no more mil contract for trujicon they will have to change to meet civilian market needs or fade away. I was also thinking vcog but the price of that scope is ridiculous to the max. Can just get a Vortex or the new SIG DVO. If they break can get another one under warranty or buy another for less total cost. Will be curious to see how trujicon adapts to the new market without military contract.
Further proof that government contracts are not the end all be all.
One of the biggest factors in getting a government contract is being the lowest bidder. Not a ringing endorsement. That is something you dont normally hear about.
Of course ACOG's will always have their fan base because they were used in the military and some swear by them. Proof that you can adjust to anything if that is your only option.
Anytime I see an ACOG review it is usually lacking when compared to the competition despite always being much more expensive. Now I understand that they are bomb proof and there is a lot to be said for that given its intended purpose.
Disclaimer - I never owned an ACOG, and I never had to have my life depend on an optic so I am not speaking with first hand experience, but for the civilian who is not putting his life on the line I believe there to be better options just according to what I have read/seen.
You may have experienced backlash. Trijicon used to recommend you tap your turrets with a small padded mallet after every adjustment.
I like my ta31 acog, but if primary arms made an actually solid mount for a vertically mounted red dot above their microprisms, I'd go for that every day of the week
Same here! That last minute developed top mount of theirs is sadly total junk.
Yep, a real, robust red dot mounting footprint has got to be part of the next generation of PA prisms
You could just use a see through mount on a riser in front of the prism. The type of mount the sig Romeos and holosuns come with might work.
I didn't realize these could be so crap in some ways. Thanks for the video.
And now you understand "mil-spec"
LOL, I have even more admiration for you guys in the field!
Awesome video. I thank you in advance for saving me many hours of frustration when i get out to use mine. I'd be freaking out thinking it's me otherwise. 🤣🤔 😳🙄
I dig the box reviews
I’m digging the long format
I own a TA33, I really like my TA33. It's stupidly overpriced, the FOV is bad, and the illumination is ACOG.
As an acog owner that's lame....like trijicons excuse......but your cramps made my day.......
I'm surprised I never noticed anything when zeroing mine.
...but like you said I've only zeroed it once and never touched the turrets
Looking forward to seeing how trijicon feels about this, and if they'll actually eat crow and admit there's something wrong.
Very good! Thanks!
i have found the eye relief to be higher than what they claim.
If the reticle doesn’t move after bumped, set and zeroed then it’s fine.
I think the point of hitting it was to do it after you make an adjustment. Such as when you moved the reticle left, and lost 3 MOA. Would have been curious if you tapped at that point if the elevation returned to normal. I have TA02 ACOG, and personally have not done a tracking test like this. However, when Zeroing it, if I either tap the knobs, or send a round to “set” the erectors, haven’t had an issue zeroing. But this TA33 example seems to be a bit wonky for sure.
I’ve had a similar experience with the ta33’s tracking but on the other hand my favorite optic is the ta11 and I don’t have the same tracking issues with it.
Well that's disappointing to say the least i was really sold on getting one of their combo rmr acogs 😮
Sad that primary arms have better customer service
Ok, now the Acog is worthy of the Chinese FaCog comparison video
The TA31 4x’s are around 2k up here in Canuckistan…I just ordered one and now I’m dreading it
My TA01NSN was $900 from eurooptic, but obviously I’m in the USA…lol sorry about that
Europtic, was shopping expensive? Man that price is super cheap, even with the American-Canadian exchange rate
We get raped up here
The TA31 is a different animal than this. I love mine.
As EverydayMarksman said the true benefit of the TA33 is that it's easier to use for quick shots with both eyes open because of the smaller tube you are looking through which yes you do give up field of view for it but higher powered binoculars, a monocular or a rangefinder is better for scanning a large area anyways. I almost bought the SLx 3x until I watched FocusTripp do a drop test and saw that the zero got knocked way off by 25 to 30 MOA and he only dropped it from shoulder height. I have yet to see an SLx actually be torture tested to anywhere near the same extent as the ACOG has so while it is a lot cheaper it's also not going to be near as tough as the ACOG. Range worthy and combat worthy are not the same thing. It depends on just how tough someone wants their optic to be and if it's actually worth the extra you have to pay to get it. While the ACOG does have a goofy zeroing process once it's zeroed it stays put which is more important in a combat worthy optic. One of the benefits of a prism optic is it doesn’t rely on separate rings like an LPVO which is a weak point but if the prism optic doesn’t maintain zero after the same impacts which would mess up an LPVO’s zero then there’s no real advantage to the mounting system. This is one of the reason the Marines use the VCOG instead of a normal LPVO. The ACOGs and the VCOG are about as tough as you can get for a magnified optic that is mounted to something that gets banged around a lot more than a hunting rifle or a dedicated sniper rifle. The ACOG might be an old design and might lack some of the features that others have but it's still in a league of its own.
If I am considering any optic, I check your channel and Delta34. You all offer the best optic reviews on RUclips.
SO disappointing! From the optic to the company, all bad. I was seriously considering getting one of these, guess Ill stick with the Chinese "junk".
Thanks for all your great vids.
I’m glad I didn’t waste my money on these.
When you talked about the tracking issue I smacked my acog just for good measure
That is the running joke. "Get it where it's close enough and hit it" Isnwhat I've heard. I thought they were kidding.....
I would run one of these an a ar pistol. Not a gpr but somewhat of a cqb style optic with an rmr on top, almost like having a red dot and magnifier. Mostly run it for the rmr and if I need to take a more precise shot then I can look through the acog.
Only way Id buy it would be for some sort of clone type rifle.
I would not get any of the compact ACOGs including the 1.5x16 that seems to get some love for whatever reason. I am a GLx 2x owner who would not buy any of the new SLx microprisms. I like my prisms big.
The 4x32 ACOG is amazing, and eye relief is not an issue if you have a nice mount setup. This optic with an RDS is still the best set up for a mid-range rifle.
Mr. SeaDoo. You should really see if you can get your hands on an Element Immersive 5x prism. Its kinda big and heavy but, imho, it is REALLY impressive for ~$500.
I love my TA33. They are very underrated. Eye box and weight is awesome. People see the narrow FOV on paper, but in reality you keep both eyes open so it's a non issue. Don't need the piggyback as it's fast to look through
Sorry if this comment has been spammed... but you tap the turrets, not the body.
Does it work? No idea, but I've never not done it and they've all zeroed ok for me.
Yeah, Trijicon gonna have to eat a turd sammich on this review. Thats pathetic "QC" for a returned item. I have a coiple Trijicon optics, and won't waste my time sending them in for warranty work or buying amy more. Too many good choices out there these days, its not 2005 anymore.
The first ACOG model TA01 was released in 1987. That makes this design 36 years old (Looking forward to your review of Laser Disks for movies.) While both designs were excellent for their time, we have a lot more cost effective solutions today. The design has had longevity because of its ease of use and reliability. Take into account that a 100 dollar clone of this design can accomplish the same thing, so it lives on based on its battle experience. If you are looking to repel down a helicopter or jump out of an airplane then this is the product for you, but also note that the military has since migrated away from this design.
My old home range....I see they pushed past 200yrds since I left!
It's common to tap the turrets after every adjustment on Army zero ranges.
Rough doing the TA33 as a first review for the ACOG, I feel it is one of the worst in the line.
iTS bAttlE PROovEn
Well if I ever had an inkling to buy something from trijicon this example of their customer service just solidified that I never will.
You should review a cheap airsoft knockoff version to see if it's any better.
11:53 💀
Oh I was laughing out loud on this.
I would still like you to do a 4x but Trijicon still needs to take care of there customers!🔭🤖
You should read the manual that comes with the TA33. The eye relief is 3.6” per the manual. I have two of them. In reality it’s more like 5”. You lose almost zero fov until you get beyond 5”. Long eye relief plus narrow fov is just physics. There is no way in hell the PA has more eye relief than the TA33. I own multiples of both. FOV and scope body of the TA33, and also the TA47, shine in run n gun type events, ie real world situations these optics were designed for. A large FOV and and large scope body blocking your peripheral vision suck. Try using the optic in one of your .22 matches and you’ll understand what I mean. Try using it as a magnified micro red dot. You’ll get it then.
Yeah, I don’t think he does the kind of shooting where the lower magnification acogs shine. The ta33 is honestly the most useful acog to use for more than static observation and things like that.
@@user-vv9lr2rw5dYep. The TA31 and TA11 are great for observation in like Afghanistan or in a tree stand during hunting season, but not run n gun type events.
I have the slx3x, looking at the comparison between the slx 3x and ta33, the glass in the trijicon is clearly better, but other than that, i cant see many reasons to go with the ta33 over the slx 3x.
The micro SLx breaks easy, the last gen is almost on par with the ACOG
@@boygonewhoopdataZZwhat do you mean last gen?
@@boygonewhoopdataZZ I dunno, I have a 5x SLx, and am not easy on it. Plenty of scuffs, chips, etc on the optic, and its been fine, still it. I'm sure I could break it if I tried, and I dunno if its "bombproof", but its been plenty durable for things like hiking, camping, drills, etc.
The only fragile parts of the slx 3x micro are the mounts, especially the cantilever spacers.
Thank you very much for this video.
As far as I know, the selling point of the Acogs is that they are extremely simple, strong and reliable, and that users can rely on them even in very harsh conditions and tough use. Elcan has similar selling arguments.
These are not characteristics that can be tested on a peaceful day with a lot of time to compare them with other optics.
As a Trijicon fanboy it’s good to see an honest review. I think a lot of their reputation is carried by the venerable TA31 which I have and is outstanding if it works for you. However my TA110c 3.5x I bought brand new broke from 5.56 recoil after 400 rounds. Internal prism shifted so far you can’t look through it. It’s currently at Trijicon being fixed but it makes me wonder how common issues are with their other models. Still love acogs but it so far doesn’t seem all acogs are equal
@llhosall7735,’
Your comment is not giving me much hope. I am looking for that “go-to shtf” scope. With Trijicons rep for toughness, vcog was looking good. Then, I saw a video where under recoil alone, the reticle shifted. “No way” then I turned to the acog, less moving parts inside, I thought. And now I’m reading this about your experience. I hate to say it but minus the crappy mounting system, I might turn back to the Elcan...🤦🏻
@@ridnthawave708 I’ve never heard of a problem with the ta31 or ta02
Don’t overthink it there isn’t an optic without issues
Elcan and acogs are the most durable there are full stop
If there was something obviously better we would buy something that wasn’t 30+ years old
Appreciate the response! I agree. It’s frustrating trying to find that be all optic. All week I’ve been debating about the ta110, I like the idea of battery. I’d go ta 31, but, man, coming from lpvo, that eye relief....
@@ridnthawave708 yeah imo if you just go offset irons the eye relief is easy to get used to I think it’s actually a bit further than 1.5 and you can always get the mount that extends it even further back
Or if you have 2 grands the Elcan is great
And also I love the ta110 I have hardly found anyone else having issues with it
I’m just unlucky I suppose 😂
@@ridnthawave708 because a prism shift is a QC issue or fluke not a design flaw
They are insanely durable you should check out their manufacturing process
Elcan next?👀
I'd love you to review the TA02 version so i can think about it over the ELCAN specterDR...
The RCO is not much better. We would smack them too after adjusting and confirm. Never knew why until now. It also explains why elevation would change after adjusting windage. I always figured it was me sucking at life. Eye relief also blew and liked to kiss your eye pro. The chevron was stupid as it was infinitely precise at ranges where it did not matter. At ranges where it would matter, you didn’t use the chevron to aim. You were left with a fat useless red triangle.
The ACOG was good when it came out, but in classic Trijicon style, they never improved or innovated on the product. The Elcan is a much stronger performing prism.
I really love my TA31 and hope you get the chance to review one of those as well. Totally different animal. That said I’ll probably grab one of the GLx 2x for my 300BLK
I have their 1x and 3x, but can't compare to other optics, they work for me.
Such a terrible FOV on those ...
Please test other ACOGs, i really need to see if they have similar tracking issues. I don't have a fixture to properly test mine, maybe i should craft something. Seeing this is extremely concerning.