Are Extra “Unused Wires” Required by Code?

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 29 янв 2025

Комментарии • 100

  • @BackyardMaine
    @BackyardMaine  14 дней назад +2

    drinkag1.com/backyardmaine or scan the QR code to subscribe and save $20 off your first subscription of AG1. Thanks to AG1 for sponsoring today’s video!

  • @robertmatthews4285
    @robertmatthews4285 9 дней назад +13

    I’ve never met any electrician that will run an extra wire as common practice just because it may be needed in the future. Usually I’ve had to threaten firing an electrician to get him to go beyond minimum code, and that’s with paying for the extra work. You know different electricians than I do.

    • @jeremyparks9648
      @jeremyparks9648 8 дней назад +2

      I was taught to run 14/3 to every place a fan could be mounted that way when the track homes buyer wanted to upgrade the wire was already there. Now boss man still charged as if I fished a new switch leg.

    • @juniperchow
      @juniperchow 7 дней назад +3

      Wire is expensive but if there's conduit and I expect the need to add a wire like for separate light and fab control I'll give the next guy a string 😂

    • @JasperJanssen
      @JasperJanssen 2 дня назад

      Neutrals in the switch *is* minimum code, though.

  • @csimet
    @csimet 11 дней назад +7

    Keep in mind that many newer ceiling fans (with lights) are now remote controlled and only need one power feed (black). The controller built into the fan provides power control to the fan and light with no need to utilize the extra independently switched hot (red). I personally would always still run a 14/3 (or 12/3) and cap off the red as a spare, as you never know what the fan may be replaced with down the road... perhaps a non-remote controlled unit that will optionally need both legs switched.

  • @Sparky-ww5re
    @Sparky-ww5re 12 дней назад +10

    Sometimes, usually in the kitchen of some homes built between the 70s to around 2014 will have what appear to be unused black or red wires in some of countertop outlet boxes. This means the kitchen was wired to provide the required two 20 amp small appliance circuits by means of a multiwire circuit using one run of 12/3 instead of two runs of 12/2 as is the practice in new construction today. When GFCI protection was required for the countertop receptacles and a multiwire circuit is used, usually there will be two GFCI receptacles, one connected to the black, other to red sharing a neutral, and from that point 12/2 cable from the load terminals to protect additional receptacles as needed. This was done as a means of saving money on labor and material (where two circuits are needed, one 3 wire cable costs considerably less to install than running two 2 wire cables to accomplish the same end result).
    Once AFCI requirements were added to include the kitchen in 2014, the practice of using multiwire circuits in homes has virtually been 100% eliminated.

    • @kenbrown2808
      @kenbrown2808 11 дней назад +6

      some states have rejected the AFCI for appliance circuits rule. at this point, I've come to the conclusion that AFCI requirements are driven by AFCI manufacturers, and seen more problems caused by them than prevented.

    • @thomasdragosr.841
      @thomasdragosr.841 11 дней назад

      @@kenbrown2808 AFCI's are a PIA!

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад +1

      Yes for sure. It was very common to install multiwire branch circuits but as you said they are pretty much a thing of the past now.

    • @hburke7799
      @hburke7799 5 дней назад

      MWBCs also have the advantage of lower voltage drop especially on longer runs (the neutral only carries the difference current between the hot conductors, so compared to two dedicated circuits the voltage drop is half)
      and for shops/garages/etc, they also used to be common as a cheap and easy way to get 120v and 240v receptacles.
      it is a real shame that they aren't used anymore imo, especially since it's due to AFCIs..

    • @kenbrown2808
      @kenbrown2808 5 дней назад +1

      @hburke7799 if the house is big enough for it to make a difference on voltage drop, you probably need feeders and subpanels. The most common reason electricians ran 3 wire branch circuits was to save money on copper.

  • @Gruntled2001
    @Gruntled2001 12 дней назад +8

    That's a neat convention about flipping the switch-controlled outlet "upside down". Didn't know about it. Could be a regional thing though.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  12 дней назад +2

      I have seen it but its not something I usually do because many will think it was a mistake. I almost always install a ceiling light as well but some people don't like them and would rather have a switched receptacle.

  • @kenbrown2808
    @kenbrown2808 11 дней назад +4

    keep in mind if you are going to have a full switched receptacle, you have to have unswitched receptacles that still meet code for spacing - which is why you typically only see full switched receptacles in old trailer houses. the norm is half-switched receptacles - which need their own video.

  • @stevebabiak6997
    @stevebabiak6997 11 дней назад +4

    For the fourth case, when having the house built, you can have conduit run from the attic down to the basement and use that to run wire in the future should there be a need.

    • @rupe53
      @rupe53 11 дней назад +2

      for things like CATV or alarm systems the extra conduit is a good way to future-proof. OTOH, nothing beats a spare wire going all the way to that garage or attic. Just terminate in a junction box and you can go from there at a later date.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад +2

      Right on.. Thats a great way to get power there as well. I ran two one inch PVC conduits from the basement to the attic for Coaxial Cable, CAT5 Data and Phone. I guess I wasn't very good at predicting the future because none of that is needed anymore.

    • @staceyward777
      @staceyward777 11 дней назад

      @@BackyardMaine On the contrary, even though I have several streaming devices in various rooms, I still watch over-the-air TV and those TVs are all fed from the antenna by coax. As a ham radio operator, I also have coax cables running through the walls for other things. Further, all my security cameras are PoE as is my ceiling-mounted wireless access point, so that requires UTP, as well as my servers on my network. The only things using Wi-fi are my laptops, cell phone, and the above mentioned streaming devices. And I still have a landline phone with at least one jack (used or not) in each room.

    • @fishandgameman
      @fishandgameman 11 дней назад +2

      My home didn’t have the raceway you mentioned. I used a hole saw to make openings in the top plates and bottom plate including the sub-floor, and shoehorned grey PVC in. It’s flexible enough to bend just enough to get it in the wall. I added three 1 1/2 raceways. It makes it so easy to install wired camera systems, CATx, and additional circuits. I stuff Rock wool in the pipe to hopefully prevent any fire extending into the attic space. I don’t plan on any fires but no one ever does.

    • @stargazer7644
      @stargazer7644 6 дней назад

      When I asked my builder to do this he refused saying it was a violation of the fire code.

  • @rupe53
    @rupe53 11 дней назад +1

    my son bought a house that had all of the outlets in the bedrooms split so half was live and half switched. We also found extra wires hanging in the attic, which based on the locations were spares for future air handler (240 volt) and perhaps a gable end fan. After tracing we tagged them and capped them off at both ends. (they had been live)

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад

      Very common practice. I actually cut the part about split receptacles out of the video during the edit because I was worried I would confuse people.

  • @chaseweeks2708
    @chaseweeks2708 6 дней назад

    Never thought of running a 3-wire around the room for a selectable switched outlet. That's genius. I'm going to have to remember that.

  • @user-em6ie2be7x
    @user-em6ie2be7x 12 дней назад +11

    I use The WAGO connectors too so if there is an unused wire it'll either be out of the way or have electricity running through it.

    • @Gruntled2001
      @Gruntled2001 12 дней назад +1

      Yes! No chance of those shaking themselves loose and off the wire. Wirenuts fall off of the end of a single wire all the time.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  12 дней назад +1

      That is a great way to keep the wires organized.

    • @staceyward777
      @staceyward777 11 дней назад +2

      @@Gruntled2001 Just double back the wire so it's the same diameter as two

    • @MadLadCustoms
      @MadLadCustoms 9 дней назад +1

      This is a WAGO sales guy account 😂😂

  • @62Cristoforo
    @62Cristoforo 10 дней назад

    The 3-wire conductor for switched outlets for things like floor lamps is a great idea. Also, turning the receptacle upside down for easy identification is also a great tip! Thanks.
    I noticed you switched both halves of the receptacle. In Ontario we usually split that receptacle, with just the bottom half being operated by the wall switch.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      I actually recorded splitting the receptacles as well but I cut it out during the edit. I thought that would be better for a dedicated video. I didn't want to confuse anyone by not providing enough information and I didn't want to spend to much time on it here since the video is about extra wires. Thanks for your comments as always.

    • @ronb6182
      @ronb6182 6 дней назад

      Good thinking. 73

  • @Sylvan_dB
    @Sylvan_dB 11 дней назад

    Great information. I had been wondering about this. Of course, the one place I was really hoping for an extra wire, a ceiling fan, doesn't have one.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад +1

      Many of the new fans will come with remotes now so they don't even need a switch. I would rather have a switch on the wall than trying to keep track of a remote.

  • @fishandgameman
    @fishandgameman 11 дней назад +1

    What is the purpose of box offsets on EMT? When I upgraded my main serve disconnect panel and eliminated the multi-wire branch circuit configuration, along with adding a 100A sub panel in the garage; I bent offsets for every box. Other than attaching the pipe along the run with straps being easier, I guess it doesn’t matter. Personal preference maybe? I noticed it appeared the ones in your background were straight. I’m no electrician by trade, just studied the NEC and a little handy. Maybe it’s like which way a receptacle gets turned, it really doesn’t matter; although, I like the idea of flipping the switched wall outlet opposite the rest. 👍

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад +1

      Box offsets allow you to strap the conduit right up against the wall. There are other strap that have the same spacing as the box KO so box offsets are not required. If you notice the conduit behind me in the video there are no box offsets. I didn't need to support these nipples because they are all less than 36" long but if they were longer I could have used Minerallac straps and still skipped the offsets as well.

    • @62Cristoforo
      @62Cristoforo 10 дней назад

      The purpose of the offset in conduit is so it will line up with the opening (knock-out) of the box. Your conduit will be right against the wall but the opening in the box isn’t.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      @ True but thats if your supporting the conduit right up against the wall. If you're using other type of supports like Minerallac Straps box offsets are not needed.

  • @ChestnutFarmHome
    @ChestnutFarmHome 10 дней назад

    When I wired my house a few years ago, I also ran a 2" (I know is overkill) conduit to the roof for future solar as well as a 3/4" one for TV antenna/satellite.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      It's always good to be prepared for the future.

  • @jeffschroeder4805
    @jeffschroeder4805 10 дней назад

    I gained a lot of practical knowledge about basic wiring practices, some of which I wish I had known before I wired my own house. I would have carried additional circuits to or thru more of the house.

  • @jolyonwelsh9834
    @jolyonwelsh9834 9 дней назад

    I created a spare wire in a bathroom the other day. I was running a cable to an extra receptacle and all I had on my truck was 12-3 Romex. So I had to cap off the extra red wire at both ends.

  • @qapla
    @qapla 11 дней назад

    You may also find a spare wire in a ceiling light/fan box that was wired for separate switches but the installed fan/light uses a remote control that only uses a single wired connection to control both.

  • @vince6829
    @vince6829 12 дней назад +1

    Great video.
    Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  12 дней назад +2

      I’m glad you found it helpful! Thanks for watching...

  • @miket5506
    @miket5506 8 дней назад

    3-wire to all receptacles is really smart if you don’t mind your receptacles and lights sharing a breaker. Neat idea, but I don’t ever put receptacles onto lighting circuits. Reason being if a vacuum cleaner or other heavy load pops the receptacle breaker, I don’t want to be fumbling around in the dark getting to my panel.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  5 дней назад +1

      I prefer a ceiling light in every room which would mean a switched receptacle is not needed.

    • @miket5506
      @miket5506 5 дней назад

      @ same here. I’m not fond of switched receptacles in lieu of light fixtures at all.

  • @prodson8310
    @prodson8310 11 дней назад

    Another terrific video. Thank you. Greatly appreciated

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад

      Thank you! I appreciate you watching my videos.

  • @BearStar1
    @BearStar1 11 дней назад +1

    40 years ? Well, I have been a Electrician for 59 years !!

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      I assume you're retired now?? I'm retired with 40 years in the trade. I actually spent my last 10 years working as an electrical engineer for Texas Instruments.

  • @danielsoroken9596
    @danielsoroken9596 10 дней назад

    Hello John, enjoying your videos!! Got a quick question. Why is it that neutral wires from different circuits are supposed to be wired separately but are all wired on the same neutral bus bar in the breaker panel? Doesn't seem like that makes sense!

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      Great question.. Many people think of the neutral wire like a grounding wire since they are bonded together at the service and it is actually called the grounded conduct for this reason. But it is important to remember that the neutral wire is a current carrying conductor. A residential electrical service is a split phase system where each pole is 180 degrees out of phase with the other. Thats why we have 120v to ground and 240v between poles. The bus in your panel is staggered between poles as well so you will have 240v between breaker down the left or right side and from left to right. When breakers on opposite poles share a neutral, the current on the neutral from each pole is 180 degrees out of phase so they don't add up. For example: if you had 12 amps on one pole and 10 amps on the other, the neutral would only carry the imbalance which would be 2 amps. But if we shared the neutrals on two breakers on the same pole then the neutral would carry 22A based on the example above. This would overload the conductor and could eventually cause insulation breakdown which could lead to fire. I hope this answers your question..

  • @greggpurviance7252
    @greggpurviance7252 12 дней назад

    Generally put a N in S boxes when running Romex
    Also the new remote fan controllers only require one hot to the fan.

  • @LinHolcomb
    @LinHolcomb 7 дней назад

    It would be a good idea to start using the new standard color scheme for 3 wire consistently in your videos. The continuity difference w/o explanation may confuse the next generation of electricians in training. Just my $0.02. This is becoming more common as retail and wholesale are carrying these.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  5 дней назад

      I did make a detailed video on this. ruclips.net/video/5ZP-G4Qo8tg/видео.html

  • @BearStar1
    @BearStar1 11 дней назад

    I have always marked my switch legs for lights or receptalces with blue tape

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      Blue tape is a great way to mark the wires.

  • @jabbathespud
    @jabbathespud 12 дней назад +2

    Many switched outlets are split so only the top receptacle is switched and the bottom is always on. That's how my home was wired.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  12 дней назад +1

      Yes, that is a common way to wire switched outlets.I actually had that option recorded in this video but I cut it out because I didn't want to confuse anyone. Maybe I'll make a dedicated video on split receptacles.

    • @Ron-n2o
      @Ron-n2o 11 дней назад

      @@BackyardMaine I've lived in several apartments where someone replaced a split receptacle wire-for-wire but didn't break out the tab, resulting in a switch that didn't do anything. The first time I ran across this, it took me a while to figure out what was going on. After that, it was an easy fix (assuming I noticed it before I had furniture placed in front of the receptacle).
      I've also run across receptacles where it was really hard to break out the tab, due to the way it was shaped. I wonder if there's a trick to it that I'm missing.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад +1

      @@Ron-n2o I've seen that as well. I will make a video on split receptacles for switches and for two circuit devices.

  • @imark7777777
    @imark7777777 11 дней назад

    I can think of one other place where you'll have unused wires. In the kitchen with two circuits on a 3+G where somebody has come in and incorrectly replaced an outlet or GFCI. Hopefully those two wires are on a tandem circuit breaker.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      I hardly ever ran multiwire branch circuits for that very reason. Too many people will not understand them and make a mistake.

  • @staceyward777
    @staceyward777 11 дней назад

    My house was built in 2003 and they put junction boxes in the attic (like you'd use for lights) but never ran any wiring to them lol

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      Bummer..

    • @staceyward777
      @staceyward777 10 дней назад

      @@BackyardMaine Not really. I've ran hundreds of feet of UTP up there and down through the walls. Just like base housing at Minot, Sheppard, Little Rock, and Tinker. Romex ain't that big a deal.

  • @igfoobar
    @igfoobar 11 дней назад

    Shared neutrals

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад +2

      It's not a shared neutral when the power and the switch leg are on the same circuit. Share neutral would mean they are not on the same circuit. These are multiwire branch circuits and there are several requirements for installing them safely.

    • @igfoobar
      @igfoobar 10 дней назад

      @@BackyardMaine Sorry, I meant to suggest that shared neutrals are one more thing worth discussing in this group of topics.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  9 дней назад

      @@igfoobar Great point. I missed the meaning. Yes I do plan on making a video on that subject. Thank you.

  • @imark7777777
    @imark7777777 11 дней назад

    Wait what! It's common to wire all outlets in the room up to be capable of being switched, I have literally never seen that!
    They're always in like the worst possible location in a room where even if you put a lamp in it wouldn't illuminate anything and it's always so the builder can cheap out by not putting lights on the ceiling. About the only place I've seen a switched outlet makes sense is in the master bedroom in the house I'm currently at but that's only because one wall has a window the other wall has a closet and the third wall has a bathroom and hallway door which literally leaves you only one wall for the bed so they only put one plug on the entire wall. And if they ever do run wire to the ceiling it's never a 3+G so there's no easy way to upgrade to a fan.
    I have even seen somebody's brand new house built 4 years ago where they completely messed up the switched outlet and switch it was supposed to be at/on and the person literally lives with tape over the switche so their TV doesn't get shut off.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      It's common for a (good electrician) to wire switched receptacles the way I described in the video.

    • @stargazer7644
      @stargazer7644 6 дней назад

      @@BackyardMaine Then there are no good electricians.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  6 дней назад

      Remember if you have a switched light in the room then switched receptacles are not required and will almost never be installed.

  • @kenbrown2808
    @kenbrown2808 11 дней назад

    the most common reason for a ceiling fan to be fed from just one wire is the radio remote controlled fans.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад

      Yup the new stuff is different. I still prefer a wall switch but I may be old fashioned.

    • @kenbrown2808
      @kenbrown2808 11 дней назад

      @@BackyardMaine and you always have to put in that second wire, because the one time you don't, you need it.

  • @crazysquirrel9425
    @crazysquirrel9425 10 дней назад

    Power can be induced into unused wires. Best to cap them off to be safe.

  • @GoogleMe-en9sg
    @GoogleMe-en9sg 10 дней назад

    Bathroom fans should have a separate switch. No reason to suck out conditioned air.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  9 дней назад

      I've never seen a bathroom with just the fan light for lighting. I have three bathrooms and I run the fan when needed and use the other light when it's not.

  • @Bob.W.
    @Bob.W. 12 дней назад

    My first job as an apprentice electrician was in Bar Harbor. Lymburner Electric. 1972.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад

      We love Bar Harbor. We usually spend a weekend there every fall. It's about a four hour drive from the house.

  • @ethanlamoureux5306
    @ethanlamoureux5306 10 дней назад

    I keep asking myself, and maybe you can answer this, but what is the safety issue with having an old-fashioned light switch with no neutral in the box? Sure, it may be inconvenient if you decide to use a switch that needs a neutral, since you will have to run a new wire, but how is not having a neutral unsafe? I thought the NEC was supposed to be about safety, not convenience.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  9 дней назад

      It's unsafe because people go out and buy smart switches and get home and realized they have no place to connect the neutral and the switch won't work. Many will then connect the neutral to ground according to data collected from the CSPC. Now you have current flow on the ground with can be hazardous.

    • @stargazer7644
      @stargazer7644 6 дней назад

      If the NEC was only about safety and not convenience the code would simply say that it is forbidden to run electricity to a dwelling.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  6 дней назад

      Also remember this is for new work. You are not required to make changes to existing installations.

  • @user-lr4id9pf8y
    @user-lr4id9pf8y 12 дней назад

    No

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  10 дней назад

      Some of them are my friend.. Back in 2011 Article 404.2 of the NEC was updated requiring a neutral wire in light switch boxes in order to give people the option to connect smart switches or other lighting controls that may require a neutral to operate correctly.

  • @KennethKrueger-p4i
    @KennethKrueger-p4i 12 дней назад

    it is there to connect to a wall switch if you desire one...easier if installed before the wall is finished. and...I didn't take 10m to explain it. If you don't know this beforehand, put the outlet back how you found it.

    • @kenbrown2808
      @kenbrown2808 11 дней назад +1

      you also didn't explain it.

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад +1

      I suggest you start your own channel since you're so much better at explaining things. Good luck.

  • @ronb6182
    @ronb6182 6 дней назад

    Nonsense we been controlling our lights for over a century without a neutral in the switch area. Outlets and lights should always be on separate circuits if you overload an outlet the lights stay on this is a no brainer. I will never use china made switches the good old single pole switch is good enough for me. Unless using three and four way circuits. Most DIY have no clue how to use these circuits. Dad taught me how to hook up three way circuits from the light or from each switch depending on how the power is run. Also having only two wires makes putting in switches easy and you don't need box extensions or deep boxes. 73

  • @DrBlood-cq2cm
    @DrBlood-cq2cm 12 дней назад

    Sorry. Just not understandable.

    • @pyromen321
      @pyromen321 12 дней назад +3

      Skill issue?

    • @BackyardMaine
      @BackyardMaine  11 дней назад +3

      I try to make my video very easy to understand. I use terminology that is generally know not just code lingo..

    • @jimsummers487
      @jimsummers487 11 дней назад +3

      Lay off the marijuana