Great video. Hint: For playing on the G string with German bow, use your left knee to angle the bass in very slightly. For the E string, do the opposite. This helps keep the bow straight and make crossing smooth. One reason for the crooked bow is also the bow hold taught in Germany and other parts of Europe. Check out Odon Racz on RUclips. PS: Thanks for using “hold” and not “grip.” ❤️
I agree, since switching to German bow a few years back I have definitely become more comfortable with moving the instrument to make it easier to reach the outer strings.
As a violinist and double bassist, I definitely prefer using the German bow when playing bass. For some reason the French bow just feels weird for me when playing.
Cellist and bassist here. I feel the same way. I tune in fifths and I like having the natural force of gravity on weighing my low G and C strings with a German bow.
Great video Jason, I am a "switch hitter", studying both German and French bow rather equally. My Spicatto is def better on French bow. I feel that I my lyrical playing may be better with German bow. I too "cross-train" between them -- I like how the German bow loosens up my wrist. One thing worth exploring on French bow is the diversity of bow hold it offers. I have found 6 distinct French bow holds, explained here from the thumb's perspective, from the heaviest to lightest hold. The fingers maintain their spatial relationship over the thumb with fingers wrapped over the stick and tips touching the hair as is "normal": 1. thumb under the frog. Great 1st step for coming out of pizz for that first few arco measures, then resetting your thumb. 2. thumb in the throat of the frog. Great for Brahms and Russian rep. 3. thumb on the nose of the frog. The "normal" all-around placement. 4. thumb at the front of the leather grip. Great for Mozart, Haydn, Handel, and Bach. 5. thumb at the balance point of the stick. Great for curing "outrigger pinky". 6. German bow hold -- yes fingers get compressed against the frog, but it works.
Your videos are always helpful. In my case a broken ulna at wrist makes my use of the German bow impossible. Thank you for all you do for the bassists.
Jason: I think something strange got into my house. Davie504: I’m here to SLAPP your BASS! --- In all seriousness, I appreciate you putting out this video highlighting the similarities and differences between French bow and German bow. My impression was that, according to another bass player, if you want a louder, darker sound, the German bow is preferred over French bow. Would you agree with that?
Totally agree. Somehow German bow is kinda much suitable for long strokes bowing passages while French bow for delicate lively passages especially with tonnes of fast switches from arco to pizzicato and pizzicato to arco. German bow tends to get in the way for the switches from arco to pizzicato and vice versa by the bridge LOL And I'm totally have no idea on how to play passages which require to play special effect on strings by hitting the wood side of the bow on strings when using German bow.
I use both, depending on the passage (assuming time to switch). If the passage requires switching strings or quick moving runs, I use the French bow. If I need to play something that needs more punch and projection (Beethoven’s 5th or the theme from Jaws😅) I play with the German bow. Just seems to work better for me.
Amateur flute/ piano player. Was at Brevard Music Camp when Gary Karr had just become famous. He played concert and recital. I was blown away by the quarter tones in the Jewish prayer piece.
Thanks! Now, I'm curious about pressure of the bow against the strings. Violin, Viola, Cello, you don't hardly need any pressure, just control. Bass? I wind up using pressure to grab the string...
As a violist and a cellist, I found that playing the violin requires more bow pressure than playing the viola and cello as both viola and cello just requires bow control with less pressure
I've used German bows the majority of my time playing double bass; found under hand to be more natural. I'm looking to get a French bow to give it another chance & learn better technique to hold it better that won't cramp my hand haha
The German bow grip is a class I lever, where the fulcrum (the fingers in the frog, with the first finger on top) is between the effort (the crook of the thumb joint pushing up) and the load (the hair pressing down on the string). The French bow grip is a class III lever, where the effort (first finger pressing down) is between the fulcrum (the thumb in the frog) and the load (hair pressing down on the string). The class I lever is more efficient. The mechanical advantage is more than 1. With the class III lever, the mechanical advantage is less than 1.
No much difference, I can play both effectively. I use the French most of the time, since I started my bass work with that bow, but lately I am using the German bow, mostly at home, to practice or just for fun. The major difference is the weight distribution. The German grip allows an "automatic" pressure that is measured to play without any other efforts, with the French grip you need to apply some pressure because of the different pronation of the wrist due to the different grip. That's all. That' explains why sometimes it's easier to extract powerful sound with the German bow. With the French you need to create the right pressure. Also it's seems that you use more wrist in the French and more arm with the German bow. Another very minimal difference is the cross-bows, a bit more involved with the German Bow. I like both, but I use the French more.
Thanks for this video. I recently sat next to the Vienna Philharmonic bass section as they were rehearsing Bruckner 8 under Christian Thielemann. The sound of those basses is like nothing I've heard before. There's a wonderful growl, for lack of a better word, in the resonance that adds an amazingly full-throated, earthy sound - the opposite of a subwoofer type sound that one often hears in other orchestras, which is much less directional. The way it enhances to the orchestra's incredible string sound is something to be experienced, and they typically have enjoy a prominent position lined up behind the brass in the Musikverein, which is fun because you can see them really digging in with those German bows... I found this video of one of the solo basses of the VPO - it would be cool if you could talk about how he produces this special sound. Thanks. ruclips.net/video/6b7ddfaklto/видео.html
This is very helpful. I'm a cellist wanting to learn bass, and I just got my bass yesterday. I have both French and German bows to try. I have severe nerve pain in my right arm when playing cello. Interestingly, I didn't experience this when playing with either style bass bow the last 2 days. However, because of my history of nerve/wrist pain when playing cello, is one bow or the other generally considered more ergonomic?
One somewhat tangential question: in classical playing, when the music leaps from arco to pizz and back again, what’s the recommended way to hold the German bow during the pizz passages? Thank you
bow hold is almost the same as arco playing, when pizzing. Quickly rotate your wrist towards you 90 degrees and extend the 1st finger off the stick and pluck away, while all remaining fingers and thumb stay on the frog/stick in same place as it was when playing arco. It's a very quick motion and if you are holding the bow properly, it works very efficiently and naturally. However, this doesn't work so well if you use the "Streicher" grip--I'm not sure how those cats do it.
Your German bow has to go downward during pizzicato. The real challenge comes in when the passages requires quick switch less in 1 second from arco to pizzicato and vice versa. Just beware not to hit the bridge. Arco to pizzicato and pizzicato to arco tends to go so much smoother with French bow as you hold the French bow upwards when playing pizzicato since you are against the fingerboard, not towards the bridge like what German bow experiencing.
What is the cutoff on the fingerboard with the E and A strings? I see it occasionally but have been unable to find an answer online as to what purpose the cutoff has.
Hello sir. I am self taught . I am having problems in the thumb position. I have 2 basses and did not have any set up ... just bought them and got them shipped . And taught myself. I would be grateful for any advise on playing or set up as there are no luthiers in Mumbai
Der Kontrabass ist eine Gambe (Viola da Gamba) Keine Violine (Viola da bracchio) Ich verstehe nicht warum man eine Gambe wie eine Violine spielen soll...? Frantisek Posta, Gary Karr und Ludwig Streicher haben das nicht getan
Great video. Hint: For playing on the G string with German bow, use your left knee to angle the bass in very slightly. For the E string, do the opposite. This helps keep the bow straight and make crossing smooth. One reason for the crooked bow is also the bow hold taught in Germany and other parts of Europe. Check out Odon Racz on RUclips. PS: Thanks for using “hold” and not “grip.” ❤️
I agree, since switching to German bow a few years back I have definitely become more comfortable with moving the instrument to make it easier to reach the outer strings.
That’s a great tip!
Timely video for me, Jason. My pinky is tending to be a bit of a happy wanderer so far.
Hey Rob! Sorry I missed you in Chicago last month. Let’s hang soon!
As a violinist and double bassist, I definitely prefer using the German bow when playing bass. For some reason the French bow just feels weird for me when playing.
Nice!
Cellist and bassist here. I feel the same way. I tune in fifths and I like having the natural force of gravity on weighing my low G and C strings with a German bow.
Great video Jason, I am a "switch hitter", studying both German and French bow rather equally. My Spicatto is def better on French bow. I feel that I my lyrical playing may be better with German bow. I too "cross-train" between them -- I like how the German bow loosens up my wrist.
One thing worth exploring on French bow is the diversity of bow hold it offers. I have found 6 distinct French bow holds, explained here from the thumb's perspective, from the heaviest to lightest hold. The fingers maintain their spatial relationship over the thumb with fingers wrapped over the stick and tips touching the hair as is "normal":
1. thumb under the frog. Great 1st step for coming out of pizz for that first few arco measures, then resetting your thumb.
2. thumb in the throat of the frog. Great for Brahms and Russian rep.
3. thumb on the nose of the frog. The "normal" all-around placement.
4. thumb at the front of the leather grip. Great for Mozart, Haydn, Handel, and Bach.
5. thumb at the balance point of the stick. Great for curing "outrigger pinky".
6. German bow hold -- yes fingers get compressed against the frog, but it works.
Great tips-thanks, Mark!
Yeah I told him that story 😂
She's not my type 😭
Your videos are always helpful. In my case a broken ulna at wrist makes my use of the German bow impossible. Thank you for all you do for the bassists.
You are so welcome!
Jason: I think something strange got into my house.
Davie504: I’m here to SLAPP your BASS!
---
In all seriousness, I appreciate you putting out this video highlighting the similarities and differences between French bow and German bow.
My impression was that, according to another bass player, if you want a louder, darker sound, the German bow is preferred over French bow. Would you agree with that?
Thanks!! I don’t think I hear a sound difference between the two, but I’d be interested if other folks hear a difference totally between the two bows.
Totally agree.
Somehow German bow is kinda much suitable for long strokes bowing passages while French bow for delicate lively passages especially with tonnes of fast switches from arco to pizzicato and pizzicato to arco.
German bow tends to get in the way for the switches from arco to pizzicato and vice versa by the bridge LOL
And I'm totally have no idea on how to play passages which require to play special effect on strings by hitting the wood side of the bow on strings when using German bow.
I use both, depending on the passage (assuming time to switch). If the passage requires switching strings or quick moving runs, I use the French bow. If I need to play something that needs more punch and projection (Beethoven’s 5th or the theme from Jaws😅) I play with the German bow. Just seems to work better for me.
Nice!
Amateur flute/ piano player. Was at Brevard Music Camp when Gary Karr had just become famous. He played concert and recital. I was blown away by the quarter tones in the Jewish prayer piece.
Catch the goliwog 😂
I can’t play the French now as well due to arthritis, so the German bow came to my rescue.
Nice!
Thanks! Now, I'm curious about pressure of the bow against the strings. Violin, Viola, Cello, you don't hardly need any pressure, just control. Bass? I wind up using pressure to grab the string...
A good topic for sure!
As a violist and a cellist, I found that playing the violin requires more bow pressure than playing the viola and cello as both viola and cello just requires bow control with less pressure
I've used German bows the majority of my time playing double bass; found under hand to be more natural. I'm looking to get a French bow to give it another chance & learn better technique to hold it better that won't cramp my hand haha
Literally the situation I find myself to be in....French bow is torture,but it would seem most players swear by them....
Sounds good to me!
Bassoons: French vs German? Hold my bocal....
The German bow grip is a class I lever, where the fulcrum (the fingers in the frog, with the first finger on top) is between the effort (the crook of the thumb joint pushing up) and the load (the hair pressing down on the string).
The French bow grip is a class III lever, where the effort (first finger pressing down) is between the fulcrum (the thumb in the frog) and the load (hair pressing down on the string).
The class I lever is more efficient. The mechanical advantage is more than 1. With the class III lever, the mechanical advantage is less than 1.
thanks a lot for explaining this!
Sorry the the fingers ment the French bow?
Same to you 😭
No much difference, I can play both effectively. I use the French most of the time, since I started my bass work with that bow, but lately I am using the German bow, mostly at home, to practice or just for fun. The major difference is the weight distribution. The German grip allows an "automatic" pressure that is measured to play without any other efforts, with the French grip you need to apply some pressure because of the different pronation of the wrist due to the different grip. That's all. That' explains why sometimes it's easier to extract powerful sound with the German bow. With the French you need to create the right pressure. Also it's seems that you use more wrist in the French and more arm with the German bow. Another very minimal difference is the cross-bows, a bit more involved with the German Bow. I like both, but I use the French more.
Thanks for this video. I recently sat next to the Vienna Philharmonic bass section as they were rehearsing Bruckner 8 under Christian Thielemann. The sound of those basses is like nothing I've heard before. There's a wonderful growl, for lack of a better word, in the resonance that adds an amazingly full-throated, earthy sound - the opposite of a subwoofer type sound that one often hears in other orchestras, which is much less directional. The way it enhances to the orchestra's incredible string sound is something to be experienced, and they typically have enjoy a prominent position lined up behind the brass in the Musikverein, which is fun because you can see them really digging in with those German bows... I found this video of one of the solo basses of the VPO - it would be cool if you could talk about how he produces this special sound. Thanks. ruclips.net/video/6b7ddfaklto/видео.html
Awesome! Thanks for sharing and also for the link!
This is very helpful. I'm a cellist wanting to learn bass, and I just got my bass yesterday. I have both French and German bows to try. I have severe nerve pain in my right arm when playing cello. Interestingly, I didn't experience this when playing with either style bass bow the last 2 days. However, because of my history of nerve/wrist pain when playing cello, is one bow or the other generally considered more ergonomic?
Your German bow hold wrist action is a bit stiff. It is different to French, but should be done to help start the string more easily.
One somewhat tangential question: in classical playing, when the music leaps from arco to pizz and back again, what’s the recommended way to hold the German bow during the pizz passages? Thank you
Oh boy, definitely not my area of expertise! I bang the German bow on everything around me when I make the switch.
Let the bow hang from the little finger. A few practice tries should do it.
bow hold is almost the same as arco playing, when pizzing. Quickly rotate your wrist towards you 90 degrees and extend the 1st finger off the stick and pluck away, while all remaining fingers and thumb stay on the frog/stick in same place as it was when playing arco. It's a very quick motion and if you are holding the bow properly, it works very efficiently and naturally. However, this doesn't work so well if you use the "Streicher" grip--I'm not sure how those cats do it.
Your German bow has to go downward during pizzicato.
The real challenge comes in when the passages requires quick switch less in 1 second from arco to pizzicato and vice versa.
Just beware not to hit the bridge.
Arco to pizzicato and pizzicato to arco tends to go so much smoother with French bow as you hold the French bow upwards when playing pizzicato since you are against the fingerboard,
not towards the bridge like what German bow experiencing.
What is the cutoff on the fingerboard with the E and A strings? I see it occasionally but have been unable to find an answer online as to what purpose the cutoff has.
It’s an extended fingerboard to let you close notes in the upper positions. I don’t use it much, but it’s fun to have the option!
It also looks really nice and fancy
Hello sir. I am self taught . I am having problems in the thumb position. I have 2 basses and did not have any set up ... just bought them and got them shipped . And taught myself. I would be grateful for any advise on playing or set up as there are no luthiers in Mumbai
I’ll work on some advice videos-welcome the the bass world, my friend!
@@doublebasshq thank you so much sir. If you find time please see my channel where I have uploaded several double bass videos. Thank you once again!
Can you play cello with this?
It would be interesting, but a cello bow would be a better match!
A German style cello bow would be amazing, I haven't been able to find one (do they even exist?)
U can’t with German bow
I don't think so.
The bridge of cello is so tiny when compared to double bass LOL
Why am I watching this? I don't even own a bass
The dark side is calling you to bass!
Der Kontrabass ist eine Gambe (Viola da Gamba)
Keine Violine (Viola da bracchio)
Ich verstehe nicht warum man eine Gambe wie eine Violine spielen soll...?
Frantisek Posta, Gary Karr und Ludwig Streicher haben das nicht getan
Thanks for this video. I'm a Contrabass player in Japan, more than 90% of Japanese contrabass players use German bow.
Viel Spaß bei Beethoven, Wagner und Bruckner 😂
Both are wrong Amazon bow is best choice
I love it!