I've watched a number of your videos. I like the details you talk about rather than glossing over those little items that usually go unmentioned. Well done and thanks.
The reason twisted pair matters with surge protection is for protection against electromagnetic interference from the other lines. That twisted pair helps cancel out possible inductive interference.
On the working space requirement, the code doesn't say the panel has to be centered within that 30" working space, and it's widely accepted that a panel can be offset 1 way or the other, as long as the panel door is able to open to 90 degrees.
Read the code's requirements for electrical installations. Never rely upon what someones tells you or you see someone do. Know by reading the code and studying the relevant theory as to the why.
Good advise on adding whole house surge protection. People protect computers and TV's with Tripp Lites but forget that almost every appliance is now "computer" controlled. I don't have much faith in the Square D QO surgebreaker. The builder installed one (in the middle of the panel - wrong location which you also explain) and I lost 7 appliance controlllers over 5 years. I installed the largest Eaton CHSPT2-Ultra Whole House Surge Protector (~$140 plus a 50amp 240V breaker) 108K amps rating on the 1st breaker in the panel. In the 7 years since its installation; no more appliances have been lost.
NEC 110.26(A)(2) The width of the working space in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width of the equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater. In all cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree opening of equipment doors or hinged panels. Code does not state 15" being necessary to have left to right of the panel. You could have 1 inch to one side, 29 to the other side, and as long as the door is able to open 90 degrees or more it is not a violation. 15" is a good practice, but not listed in the NEC. In addition you stated you were using insulated tools, and then proceeded to tighten the terminal down with a tool that was not insulated. Now it is more than likely you will not get shocked on the handle, but the tool was never tested as insulated, is marked as uninsulated, and the shank of the screwdriver has no insulation or protection which is a requirement on insulated tools. I would definitely be careful with the language used, as someone assuming that just because a tool has the Klein name it is insulated could be a huge hazard for your viewers.
Joel, what are your thoughts on using ferrules for stranded wires on your breakers? Do you ever use them? I’ve recently started using them. Seems to make a better connection. I use a crimper. But I don’t see them used often by other people and wondering if you have any experience.
i installed the ultra with a 50 amp breat as required in the instructions. i also put the surge protector directly across the 50 amp break so that the shortest twisted wires possible.
You are the coolest electrician I’ve ever come across. Great presentation to get insight on how and why surge protection at the source and down stream are beneficial.
Great install video. As I read more about panel surge protectors I also see pictures of failed (burnt panels) with surge protection. As well the manufacturer gives a dollar amount for failed surge protection. The manufacturer has yet to pay for damages. Install is one thing with great green lights and actual proven protection is another. No one seems to show the product worked. Thoughts? Your EV trench video and panel redo us great.
Thanks for the video! I didn't know that QO breakers can take two wires. But does this mean that I can add a universal protector onto an existing circuit? My panel is full, so that would be helpful. BTW, two things I noticed: (1) the black wire on your stove does not appear to be stripped properly, and (2) you used a 30A breaker, but the instructions seem to recommend 15A (though I can't think of a reason you would ever want it to trip during a surge).
Thanks for a great video, Joel! I will put an SPD on my panel shortly. (Not sure if I should go with the 108 kA or 36 kA device.) My house construction was finished in November 2020 and my neighbor's in 2022, and neither of us have an SPD on our service panels as required by NEC 230.67. When are electricians supposed to start following new code requirements?
All comes down to your AHJ, but Indy is currently in the process of transitioning from the 2008 NEC, which doesn't require SPD, to 2020 NEC, which does
If I install a surge protector in my subpanel then would you recommend installing another one at my mini split heat pump disconnect? I think the answer is yes from what I learned from your video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Even with 10 cars I suspect 300A would be more than enough for EV charging (assuming 10 30A EVSEs). Modern EVs have oversized batteries to combat "range anxiety". Average commute distance in US is 42 miles. Commutes are 30% of travel on average. So each car will need to go around 140miles/day on average. An average Tesla electric car uses around 34 kWh of electricity per 100 miles. -> 47.6kWh/day per car To charge each car in 8 hours: 48kWh*(1000W/kW)/8h/240V=24A, or 240A for 10 cars. 400A is enough to power a 100kW L3 charger! (assuming the power draw drops off within an hour) The Canadian electrical code has recently been changed such that you do not require a service upgrade for EVSE installation: so long as an Electric Vehicle Energy Management System (EVEMS) is installed.
Good video, however we have a square D surge breaker and I can say with certainty they do not help with brownouts. We had a outage where our computer UPS showed a continuing voltage of 70 volts and lost Microwave, TV, LG Washer electronic board. However all items on brownout protectors that shut off at around 90 volts and stayed off for 3 minutes after power was restored survived so I have about 18 more of those brownout surge protection devices now. Thus I agree with layered protection but suggest it include brownout protection. It is unfortunate a whole house brownout protector is available that includes time delay restart.
10.29.22 Very good video. Thanks for taking the time to make it. Question: What if your panel is full and no room to add extra breakers? Could one stiil use some kind of external SPD connected to an existing breaker closest to then main power coming in?
This is an excellent video that provides FAR more detailed information than most other videos you find on this subject. A really well-done presentation. The devices referenced here all appear to be shunt-mode, MOV/GDT-based, sacrificial surge protectors that can only absorb so much current before they are spent and need to be replaced. Are there versions of these same devices that can be installed at the point of service and the sub-panels that use inductance-based, series-mode surge protection methods that are non-sacrificial? We see these types of products from companies like SurgeX, ZeroSurge and Brickwall for use at the device/outlet-level inside of buildings, I'm wondering if those same technologies are also available for this type of application as well?
I do not know what your definition of insulated tool is however that flathead screwdriver was NOT insulated. It had an exposed conductive shaft. Electrical tools that are rated to work live specifically state the voltage rating (typically 1000v for the systems we are likely to encounter). You owe it to your viewers to be concise and truthful.
Great Video and detailed explanation. It looks like my Square D panel is the same as yours. Can you use the Square D SPD listed below? How would I know if I have a Plug-on Neutral panel? Square D QO 50 kA Plug-On Neutral Whole House Surge Protective Device. Thank You
Joel, I've seen about every electrical video, and you give the VERY BEST overall explanation of the process. You have a fine teaching ability. Kudos and Thank You - John 3:16
Is there anything you would recommend for a *_TENANT_* who doesn't own or have permission to modify the electrical panel, other than just a _secondary_ surge protector to protect electronics? BTW, the angles on bending/twisting wires *CAN* be important at higher voltages (like during a lightning strike). Twisting wires can also add some slight inductance which I would *GUESS* might be helpful in blocking an electro-magnetic pulse (EMP).
I was not able to use a space near the source without major surgery so I used the only space that was open which was near bottom. Truth be told, the response of the varistor is far slower than any time along a bus. Also, Siemens makes a dual 20 amp breaker that includes whole house surge so you don’t loose any spaces. I have a CH panel and all the top spaces are 240v and I don’t think Eaton makes a combo surge/breaker.
Great video, But just how does the Eaton actually work, Its trys to stop surge, but how does it do that. If lighting hits close enough, it does not matter what kind of protector you have.
Nice video! Can you comment how a 30amp or 15amp fuse on the surge protector is going to allow a 200 amp panel to access its full current? I might have missed something or need to do research; Does the fuse hooked to the surge protector get tripped only by the surge protect, eg 100 amp can go thru it on normal usage but if the surge protector see a spike it trips the fuse? Thanks!
The way that a surge protection device works is that it provides a short to ground for voltages over a certain limit (the clamping value). This is a fairly low current event (usually around 8 amps for a very short duration but can be higher). There are different types of SPD's, typical cheap power strips and some $30-$100 panel units, use MOV's (metal oxide varistors) wired between the hot and ground, this are disc like devices that actually breakdown at a certain voltage, this breakdown is destructive and you only get so many events before the MOV shorts out and and self destructs. After the damage occurs, you have a good power strip but not a surge arrestor. The other type is a gas tube device, these can take thousands of events and are self resetting. Devices with these can get pricey. We use these at the base of cell towers between the antennas and the very expensive cellular equipment and they handle direct lightning strikes. In a nutshell, a good SPD with gas tube will cost more, but you will probably only have to install it once. As to using multiple units, the only thing this does for you is that when the one closest to service fries, you still have protection. The electrician's assertion that downstream units will share the surge is not true, if the first one clamps above a certain voltage, then subsequent units will not see that clamping voltage and therefore they will do nothing. But as I said, having them there will provide protection if the first one fails. He is not joking, people have no idea that surges are shortening the lifespan of everything from LED lightbulbs to refrigerators and that things like refrigerators and air conditioners (inductive motor loads) also cause surges when the shut down. All of this "noise" takes it's toll over time.
@@ronaldwojtylko4375 Hi, and thank you for a detailed explanation. It also makes me curios about the short to ground that you mention in general. What do you mean by short to ground? In an AC panel does the ground be come the source as the current alternates, and limit the current and voltage also? Also is there some form or resistance always on the line (as a safety) to limit the max current flow (eg maybe on the line side before service comes to the location)? Thanks again!
The fuse is a wire. Like any wire it can carry currents for a time. Like 4/0 protective grounds are good for around 40,000 amps for 15 cycles, and 20,000 amps for 30 cycles, prior to burn open aka fusing. So current times time -so 100,000 amps for 0.001 cycles will easily pass through fuses and breakers. A direct lightning stroke will blow the entire panel and everything connected. 2,000,000 amps for 1 cycle time?
@@mhavock You can think of a Metal Oxide Varisitor (MOV) as a _resistor_ (a discreet device designed to allow current to flow at a controlled rate) whose amount of resistance is indirectly proportional to voltage across it. Most surge devices have one or more MOVs connected across hot(s) and neutral and hot(s) and ground. At normal voltages, such as 120 or 240 volts, the MOVs are very high resistance, and little to no current goes through them. But, when a voltage spike comes along, especially above the MOV's rated "clamp" voltage, the MOV's resistance drops very low. This "shorts" the high voltage to ground. If the MOV survives the short, it will return to high resistance once the voltage drops back to normal. As Ronald mentioned above, such an event is usually still damaging to the MOV and multiple small surges can destroy it. The size and duration and total power of the surge that the MOV(s) has to handle (versus its design specs) determines how long it will last. "Short to ground" means diverted to the grounding system, or the _groundING conductor._ Remember that the typical US home electrical service has four wires: 1. Hot #1 (usually black) 2. Neutral (white) 3. Hot #2 (black or red) 4. Ground (bare or green). The ground wire, or _groundING conductor,_ is the safety wire that is used in all modern wiring. It's connected to the metal chassis of devices to ensure they're grounded. The ground wire is electrically connected to the Earth to ensure it shares the same voltage potential as the Earth. At the main disconnect, the ground wire is also connected to the neutral (the groundED conductor). This ensures that the neutral also has the same potential as the Earth, which makes it safer to humans since they walk on the earth, and also allows the grounding system to find a low-resistance path back to the power source. In turn, should a metal chassis become energized through accidental connection to a "hot", an alternate circuit will be created between the hot and ground wire which will cause a short that will quickly trip the breaker or fuse. The whole point of "short to ground" is to dissipate or cancel out the extra voltage before it reaches any of the circuitry further on. Unless you are dealing with superconductors, every wire acts as a resistor-that is just the laws of physics. The flow of electric current is subtly resisted by the conductor and is manifested as heat. Each substance has its own degree of acting as a better conductor or better insulator, but these properties also depend on temperature and voltage. Increasing temperature or voltage improves most any substance's ability to conduct electricity. Utility lines do have fuses to isolate and protect different circuits and also surge protectors.
If I'm understanding correctly, what these panel surge protectors do is shunt excessive supply voltage to neutral, re-establishing the ideal phase balance temporarily, until the utility company stops sending the surge. Is that correct?
*QUESTION:* An electrical surge is a *physical* phenomenon, in the same way that the amount of power in a battery is a physical phenomenon. A battery with *6 amp hours* of energy will be *larger* than a 2 Ah battery - the laws of physics dictates this. My question is: Are circuit breaker surge protectors inferior to standalone surge protectors since the circuit breakers are not only smaller than an externally mounted SPD, but remember that the circuit breaker components take up a lot of space inside the circuit breaker (obviously), which leaves even less room for the physical components which protect from surges. The laws of physics certainly must dictate that the level of surge protection is directly related to the size of the physical components that "absorb" the surge. Yes?
Jeez, landline Cat 3 grey jacketed telephone wiring (and 66 blocks) isn't that old. "Old" would be like a phone I have that predates rotary dialing. (it has no dial)
For the DIYers watching this, he is being extremely reckless in working with a hot panel. He has gloves that are not electrically rated, with missing fingertips, etc. There can be wires in there that might have nicks or split insulation. He tightened screws on a hot breaker. If you are not sure about a box or panel, work with one hand behind your back and don't lean on anything that's a potential ground (panel box, water pipes, etc).
Things that are an owww that is live on residential, rarely kills. Some guys do roll snake eyes. When you move to commercial, 480/277 there are no learning experiences, that do not result in injury or death. The ones thst die are the seasoned residetial electricians that go to commercial or industrial. Nuclear code will allow the designer to burn down a small fault to maintain power to important equipment. The electrian can be the small fault.
@@petercampbell4220 Personally I have never felt more than a slight tingle when accidently touching a live 120v wire. But when working around a potentially live circuit I make sure I am not grounded. If I would have been gripping a grounded box or pipe with the other hand when I touched a live wire the shock would have been far more severe. DIYers and new electricians should learn to recognize the tingle as a potentially deadly situation if they happen to ground themselves.
@@Doug-gp2qw The best protection is to shut off the power, and test to make sure it's off. A lot harder to get shocked on a dead line. (Unless you're a utility line worker.) It's no different than getting hit by a train. Stay off the railroad tracks, and you won't get hit by a train. It's a pretty simple concept.
A lot of comments here from people who have obviously never worked in the electrical trades. Yes, you should always observe all safety rules. However, there are times when you cannot denergize a building or panel.
Thanks for the video. I have a Cutler Hammer panel That is seated between studs and surrounded by drywall. My understanding is to avoid interior panel mounts yet this panel cover has a knockout that is perfectly sized for my SPD at the top of the breakers. The two pole breaker that the unit will wire to is going to be at the very bottom near the inbound supply. I’m trying to minimize the wiring run but there doesn’t seem to be any other option than to have this mounted at the knockout position inside. Just wondered what your take is on the whole interior mounting thing. What’s the real downside versus mounting it just on the outside of the panel?
give the breaker next to the main shut off. mount the surge protector outside the panel near the breaker and ground / neutral bus . thus keeping the wires as short as possible
50A is plenty for an EV. For 5 EVs you can service them with 200A with Tesla wall connectors which share. You don’t need to charge all the cars at the same time the whole night. This is crazy. In addition to panel surge protectors, and APS with surge protection on each computer and router.
I have a 100A panel I'd to add a surge protector to. Unfortunately it's a) flush to the wall and b) uses old CH breakers, otherwise I'd just add an in breaker one such as the one by GE (which says it needs their panel so I guess I can't use it). As such, I've looked at the Eaton CHSPT2SURGE but there is no space inside the panel and I can't leave it in the wall cavity. If I went the Eaton route, what sort of conduit / parts would you recommend that I could break out from the wall and surface mount the SPD and be code compliant? If there's an easier way I'm all ears.
Hey Joel: I just watched this video. As with all of your videos, I learned a bunch of new stuff. You are a rock star! Anyway … My main Murray panel has a Siemens QSA2020SPD circuit breaker/surge arrestor. My Crouse-Hinds sub panel has no protection … and also no spaces left. I do have a double pole 30amp breaker for a 240 volt garage heater (10/2 Romex). Can the Eaton CHSPT2SURGE you referenced in the video somehow be used in conjunction with this breaker?
Many thanks! Firstly, the SPD in your main panel is providing protection to your sub panel. If you'd still like to get an SPD in your sub the consider whether your breaker is only rated for 1 terminal per lug. If so then, allowed by many jurisdictions but not all, you can pigtail off your breaker and junction to your load and SPD leads inside or adjacent to your sub panel within an enclosure.
@@ElectricProAcademy Thank you for your timely reply, Joel. A happy and safe July 4th to you and your large family! I am almost certain that you said an SPD has to be provided at each “level?” If the SPD I have in the main panel covers the sub-panel then I am good with that. For my edification, how do you tell if breaker allows more than one wire per lug?
Site specific articles relating to each task including the reasons that a code change has been adopted. Always begin with the purpose of the code: "To protect life, and property from the hazards of the use of electricity." Omit all references pertaining to utilities.
Great video... I did not know they were available in a simple breaker configuration (I always thought they were installed outside the panel). I'm picking one up today to install while I have the panel open to put in my new breakers. I see that Siemens even makes one that has two built in 20 breakers to save space and not eat up two extra positions (QSA2020SPD). Tx!
Great video! I don't have a surge protector and replaced a SL22 thermistor in the ecm blower motor module of my two stage furnace a couple years ago. Did the thermistor burn because I don't? And second.. I don't have room in my breaker panel for a surge protector breaker and probably shouldn't put it in the sub panel. Can I protect my furnace with a device in the furnace? Or should I go the whole nine yards and replace my main panel? Thanks
It's quite probable that every premature failure of an electronic component in your house could be connected to small consistent or large occasional surges. Your options include: 1. Use tandem/space saving breakers in your panel if allowed by the panel listing (see inside cover of panel) 2. Land a "non-breaker style" surge device to your breaker if the breaker is rated for two conductors (see breaker data sheet) 3. Combine two loads, investigation and discretion required (there are codes that limit this). Here's a tip on how ruclips.net/video/tF4sVKf_D34/видео.html 4. Use an SPD rated for the service equipment and locate it in your external disconnect (advanced solution)
Canadian code requires that power be removed before working a device in this case a panel. In this case you have a live panel. Also you are not wearing approved arc fault clothing.
@@ElectricProAcademy Many homes have them installed that way if in a garage. Same with the sub-panel you replaced in your home in another video. The cover is essentially flush with drywall.
Question - are there any methods of protecting a home from a sudden break in the neutral or damage from the utility? My mother in law lost a bunch of appliances when a dump truck hit the line outside. I get how the surge protector uses varistor to clamp voltage spikes but I’m not sure it will save you from this.
A customer actually told one of our guys recently that in a similar catastrophic event, the surge protector split in 2 but only 1 outlet receptacle was fried in the house! We may try to get him in front of a camera...
The last time I tried to hold a panel cover with my shoulder, it fell on my foot. Ouch! I like to watch electrical-themed videos where I learn about codes. My house is 35 years old. I have seen many examples of work that do not seem to pass the current regulation. If this work was done many years ago, am I covered by some form of 'grandfather' clause.' My electric company offered me an option to have a whole-house surge protector installed. The electric company replaced the meter with a surge protector type. Is my whole house now surge-protected? BTW, my electric bill shows a 'Surge' fee.
Question, you said that the breaker can have two conductors under the terminal, could you have left the range breaker in place and added that surge suppressor? I was told no before and wondering what you think?
You might have a "Grandfather" clause which means, at least in my area, is that if a house was built during the time that a specific violation was allowed, that you do not have to address it. That's how I got "bit" buying this house, not realizing there was no grounding outlets and only seeing 4 cloth Romex cables, with everything else being more modern, not realizing that the idiot that put the wiring in, cut all the grounds out of the wires, when he could have easily grounded them. It is as if he doesn't believe in ground wires or something, and it's made nothing but a big headache and grief for me. At least MOST of the electrical and gang boxes are metal and not that awful plastic, so If I can at least get those bonded to a ground wire, I have some protections. All the outlets I buy, the yoke and ground hole and plate screw all have continuity so even if a grounding outlet was installed, but no ground wire, if the metal box was grounded, there would still be ground protection. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case here, and the crooked realtor cited the "Grandfather" clause. I go out of my way to not have LED bulbs. I hate the damn things. Yes, I have been shocked before. When I was a kid, maybe 3 or 4, yes, I remember that, I used to take the bulb out of my nightlight and stick my finger in there. After about the third time, and my arm feeling tingly, I got the idea to not do that anymore. I didn't soon forget that feeling either. Another time, I was poking around a power supply, that was not plugged in. I touched a capacitor lead with a non insulated screw driver and it accidentally touched the housing. Got a big spark, a loud pop, and a lot of pain and I was stunned for several minutes. Another time, I was working with a fuse box in my car and got burned... I am betting you have been shocked before. Also, an inexperienced person should ABSOLUTELY NOT be in their panel. The horrors I have in this house, the person was not qualified to change a light bulb.
While a voltage surge is considered an issue, how does this relate to amps? Isn't it amps that would eventually infiltrate devices and wreck them or could it be said that if voltage meets little resistance then the amps would almost equal the voltage? Thanks
Keep in mind that: watts (power) = volts × amps To compare to water: gallons_per_minute = pressure × capacity_of_tube If the pressure in your home's plumbing is 40 psi... and a sudden surge of 4000 psi enters your home, some pipes are going to explode. Voltage spikes literally burn out delicate circuits such as electronics that cannot handle the voltage. The instantaneous amperage passing through doesn't exactly matter because the _power_ going through is more than the device can bear. The device is damaged, and will either fail instantly or slowly degrade over time until it does fail. Another thing that equation above tells us is that voltage and amperage are inversely proportional for the same amount of power. While keeping power constant, reducing the voltage increases the amperage, and vice-versa. Power lines are such high voltages so that the conductors can be small enough to be practical while still delivering the desired amount of total raw power.
Why take a chance? really, no insulated gloves, working with a live box? even a master will get complacent at some point! The teaching aspect with explainations was one of the most complete on surges and main vs sub panel installation that I've watched so far!
hwat if that customer needs a replacement cabinet then u cannot use that surgeprotector on a new subpanel sice you cut the cable that short... not a negative comment just an observation.. love your videos btw..
Surge protection: Best wiring practice? If an appliance (Dishwasher) requires 13.5 Amps or less. Is it best to use the minimum code: 15A, 14Awg circuit and wire, or to upgrade (Future Proof) to 20A,12Awg circuit and wire. If a surge should occur does the 15A or 20A circuit provide more protection to the Dishwasher? Does the smaller 15A circuit provide better Appliance protection by limiting the current and amperage from breaker to Device?
Also remember that circuits are commonly thought-derated to 80% of their ampacity. 13.5 amps is greater than the ( 80% of 15A = *12A* ) continuous expected ampacity of a 15 amp circuit. Right, Joel?
Unless there is a short-circuit, the standard circuit breaker operates on a time delay, and does not protect against voltage spikes. The breakers are mainly there to prevent the wires from catching fire.
Based on average commutes I calculated that each car needs about 24A to charge within 8 hours. But yes: I think 400A is a bit of over-kill for L2 charging.
@@jovetj in the video the 1st 1 is breaker type spd and the 2nd 1 being regular breaker/ spd on outside of panel just wondering if there is a difference between the 2 in protection wise
@@mcloude1 Not really. The external surge devices can be more robust since they can be larger than a circuit breaker space. It really comes down to the specs an individual device is designed around. The more surge current it can handle, the better.
Greetings Joe, Enjoyed your video. I have a couple questions that you might be able to shed some light on. There are various Surge Protection Device (SPD) Type levels, 1, 2, etc.. I am interested in Type 2 & 1. Briefly, Type 2 is for the load side of the electrical box and Type 1 is typical for for the Utility side installations; I think the Type 1 can be used for the Type 2 load side as well. Do normal residential electrical panels have the capability to incorporate, in series in the panel, a Type 1 SPD before the MAINS breakers in the panel. If so, why would it be necessary to install a Type 2 SPD in the panel when the meter is on the outside meter 8" away. Couldn't the Type 1 perform both the functions of Type 1 and Type 2? Lastly, isn't there a minimum distance required for installing SPDs? Too close together could have the the Utility side SPD surge take out the loadside SPD? Thanks for your insights :^)
_“I think the Type 1 can be used for the Type 2 load side as well.”_ I don't think so. The electric utility owns the meter and controls access inside the meter enclosure, but all the rest belongs to the customer. "Utility" surge devices could include a surge-protecting meter, but could also be on the utility pole or pad transformer.
IMO the surge protector should only live INSIDE the metal enclosure of the load center. A longer-duration surge (non transient, such as a neutral fault) can cause the SPD to pass more power than it can handle (more than it can dissipate the heat for/of), and literally burn. You definitely don't want a smoldering/burning thing outside your panel (e.g. on that plywood backer board). l wish SPDs could be coupled with a shunt trip main breaker to disconnect the entire pane for these types of surges that it can't protect from. Instead, some have famously failed to protect while burning down the house (Sycom).
@@ElectricProAcademy Yeah, it's a big deal. I'm not an expert in SPD design, and maybe not all SPDs fail in an unsafe way (e.g. can't catch fire due to overloading because they have been carefully designed with internal fusing etc), but open neutrals definitely create an overload condition for SPDs, so you're definitely relying solely on any safety features the SPD has (or doesn't have). As you know, open neutrals are dangerous enough, and are enough of a foreseeable event (tree falling, improper ground rod etc.) that it seems kind of a shame that SPDs offer zero protection for this event, when they could so easily do so.
Neutral and ground are 2 different electrical paths and destinations. One is "seeking" to correct imbalance within the grid, and 1 is "seeking" to correct the imbalance with the earth. By connecting both, the electrical paths will both behave inconsistently, driving up cost, resistance, and danger.
Do not need what you call a hot suit for 120/240 volt panels but approved PPE. We always used a 11Cal long sleeve shirt and a 11 Cal blue jeans along with hard hat w/ tinted visor and ear plugs . Had heavy 40 & 50CAL suites for switching & racking 13,200 volt equipment. Only good thing high Cal jump bags had hard hats with a battery operated cooling fan. Too many guys do not bother sending their 600 & 15,000 volt rubber & canvas gloves out to be tested every 6 months.
Those gloves are not electrically rated, just cut-resistant, so it really just comes down to personal comfort. When the fingers come off it's actually a little nice to have the improved dexterity. Some of our guys cut the fingertips off of their gloves as soon as they get new ones!
I've watched a number of your videos. I like the details you talk about rather than glossing over those little items that usually go unmentioned. Well done and thanks.
As an apprentice who is soon to take his journeyman exam, this man’s videos have been priceless!!
Thanks Joel!!
I urge you to obtain Mike Holt's Journey exam prep. As it is a value that will ensure you become priceless.
The reason twisted pair matters with surge protection is for protection against electromagnetic interference from the other lines. That twisted pair helps cancel out possible inductive interference.
On the working space requirement, the code doesn't say the panel has to be centered within that 30" working space, and it's widely accepted that a panel can be offset 1 way or the other, as long as the panel door is able to open to 90 degrees.
Read the code's requirements for electrical installations. Never rely upon what someones tells you or you see someone do. Know by reading the code and studying the relevant theory as to the why.
Please cite the code chapter and verse. Shuts down arguments immediately.
Never rack the surge protector breaker into an energized panel (as done here) without FIRST connecting the neutral wire.
Good advise on adding whole house surge protection. People protect computers and TV's with Tripp Lites but forget that almost every appliance is now "computer" controlled.
I don't have much faith in the Square D QO surgebreaker. The builder installed one (in the middle of the panel - wrong location which you also explain) and I lost 7 appliance controlllers over 5 years. I installed the largest Eaton CHSPT2-Ultra Whole House Surge Protector (~$140 plus a 50amp 240V breaker) 108K amps rating on the 1st breaker in the panel. In the 7 years since its installation; no more appliances have been lost.
NEC 110.26(A)(2) The width of the working space in front of the electrical equipment shall be the width of the equipment or 762 mm (30 in.), whichever is greater. In all cases, the work space shall permit at least a 90 degree opening of equipment doors or hinged panels.
Code does not state 15" being necessary to have left to right of the panel. You could have 1 inch to one side, 29 to the other side, and as long as the door is able to open 90 degrees or more it is not a violation. 15" is a good practice, but not listed in the NEC.
In addition you stated you were using insulated tools, and then proceeded to tighten the terminal down with a tool that was not insulated. Now it is more than likely you will not get shocked on the handle, but the tool was never tested as insulated, is marked as uninsulated, and the shank of the screwdriver has no insulation or protection which is a requirement on insulated tools. I would definitely be careful with the language used, as someone assuming that just because a tool has the Klein name it is insulated could be a huge hazard for your viewers.
@@ElectricProAcademy thank you my friend! Absolutely love your videos I've been binge watching them for days now :)
Joel, what are your thoughts on using ferrules for stranded wires on your breakers?
Do you ever use them? I’ve recently started using them. Seems to make a better connection. I use a crimper. But I don’t see them used often by other people and wondering if you have any experience.
i installed the ultra with a 50 amp breat as required in the instructions. i also put the surge protector directly across the 50 amp break so that the shortest twisted wires possible.
You are the coolest electrician I’ve ever come across. Great presentation to get insight on how and why surge protection at the source and down stream are beneficial.
Thank you for this great video! Best explanation of SPD’s and NEC issues I’ve seen yet!
Great install video. As I read more about panel surge protectors I also see pictures of failed (burnt panels) with surge protection. As well the manufacturer gives a dollar amount for failed surge protection. The manufacturer has yet to pay for damages. Install is one thing with great green lights and actual proven protection is another. No one seems to show the product worked. Thoughts? Your EV trench video and panel redo us great.
I have a whole line-up of MaxiFlex! Even chemical resistant. They are some of the best gloves on the market.
Thanks for the video! I didn't know that QO breakers can take two wires. But does this mean that I can add a universal protector onto an existing circuit? My panel is full, so that would be helpful. BTW, two things I noticed: (1) the black wire on your stove does not appear to be stripped properly, and (2) you used a 30A breaker, but the instructions seem to recommend 15A (though I can't think of a reason you would ever want it to trip during a surge).
Thanks for a great video, Joel! I will put an SPD on my panel shortly. (Not sure if I should go with the 108 kA or 36 kA device.) My house construction was finished in November 2020 and my neighbor's in 2022, and neither of us have an SPD on our service panels as required by NEC 230.67. When are electricians supposed to start following new code requirements?
All comes down to your AHJ, but Indy is currently in the process of transitioning from the 2008 NEC, which doesn't require SPD, to 2020 NEC, which does
If I install a surge protector in my subpanel then would you recommend installing another one at my mini split heat pump disconnect? I think the answer is yes from what I learned from your video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
SquareD QO are still my favorite. Despite the big recall.
I always take the top screws of the panel off last.
Even with 10 cars I suspect 300A would be more than enough for EV charging (assuming 10 30A EVSEs).
Modern EVs have oversized batteries to combat "range anxiety".
Average commute distance in US is 42 miles. Commutes are 30% of travel on average. So each car will need to go around 140miles/day on average.
An average Tesla electric car uses around 34 kWh of electricity per 100 miles. -> 47.6kWh/day per car
To charge each car in 8 hours:
48kWh*(1000W/kW)/8h/240V=24A, or 240A for 10 cars.
400A is enough to power a 100kW L3 charger! (assuming the power draw drops off within an hour)
The Canadian electrical code has recently been changed such that you do not require a service upgrade for EVSE installation: so long as an Electric Vehicle Energy Management System (EVEMS) is installed.
Good video, however we have a square D surge breaker and I can say with certainty they do not help with brownouts. We had a outage where our computer UPS showed a continuing voltage of 70 volts and lost Microwave, TV, LG Washer electronic board. However all items on brownout protectors that shut off at around 90 volts and stayed off for 3 minutes after power was restored survived so I have about 18 more of those brownout surge protection devices now. Thus I agree with layered protection but suggest it include brownout protection. It is unfortunate a whole house brownout protector is available that includes time delay restart.
10.29.22 Very good video. Thanks for taking the time to make it. Question: What if your panel is full and no room to add extra breakers? Could one stiil use some kind of external SPD connected to an existing breaker closest to then main power coming in?
This is an excellent video that provides FAR more detailed information than most other videos you find on this subject. A really well-done presentation. The devices referenced here all appear to be shunt-mode, MOV/GDT-based, sacrificial surge protectors that can only absorb so much current before they are spent and need to be replaced. Are there versions of these same devices that can be installed at the point of service and the sub-panels that use inductance-based, series-mode surge protection methods that are non-sacrificial? We see these types of products from companies like SurgeX, ZeroSurge and Brickwall for use at the device/outlet-level inside of buildings, I'm wondering if those same technologies are also available for this type of application as well?
I do not know what your definition of insulated tool is however that flathead screwdriver was NOT insulated. It had an exposed conductive shaft. Electrical tools that are rated to work live specifically state the voltage rating (typically 1000v for the systems we are likely to encounter). You owe it to your viewers to be concise and truthful.
The HANDLE was insulated.
Great Video and detailed explanation. It looks like my Square D panel is the same as yours. Can you use the Square D SPD listed below? How would I know if I have a Plug-on Neutral panel? Square D QO 50 kA Plug-On Neutral Whole House Surge Protective Device. Thank You
Thank you for providing this info. Surge is now on my to do list!
Joel, I've seen about every electrical video, and you give the VERY BEST overall explanation of the process. You have a fine teaching ability. Kudos and Thank You - John 3:16
Is there anything you would recommend for a *_TENANT_* who doesn't own or have permission to modify the electrical panel, other than just a _secondary_ surge protector to protect electronics?
BTW, the angles on bending/twisting wires *CAN* be important at higher voltages (like during a lightning strike). Twisting wires can also add some slight inductance which I would *GUESS* might be helpful in blocking an electro-magnetic pulse (EMP).
Hello Electric Pro Academy, power conditioner something to consider or recommendation or snake oil? Thank you.
I was not able to use a space near the source without major surgery so I used the only space that was open which was near bottom. Truth be told, the response of the varistor is far slower than any time along a bus. Also, Siemens makes a dual 20 amp breaker that includes whole house surge so you don’t loose any spaces. I have a CH panel and all the top spaces are 240v and I don’t think Eaton makes a combo surge/breaker.
Ooo, can you share a link of that breaker?
Are you saying the inside panel is a subpanel? Even though the outside main single breaker is just used for on/off for the inside panel?
Great video, But just how does the Eaton actually work, Its trys to stop surge, but how does it do that. If lighting hits close enough, it does not matter what kind of protector you have.
www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-ie/000145629/information-about-surge-protectors-and-how-they-work-kb-article-120517#:~:text=local%20power%20provider.-,How%20Does%20a%20Surge%20Protector%20Work%3F,the%20excess%20current%20to%20ground.
Nice video! Can you comment how a 30amp or 15amp fuse on the surge protector is going to allow a 200 amp panel to access its full current? I might have missed something or need to do research; Does the fuse hooked to the surge protector get tripped only by the surge protect, eg 100 amp can go thru it on normal usage but if the surge protector see a spike it trips the fuse? Thanks!
The way that a surge protection device works is that it provides a short to ground for voltages over a certain limit (the clamping value). This is a fairly low current event (usually around 8 amps for a very short duration but can be higher). There are different types of SPD's, typical cheap power strips and some $30-$100 panel units, use MOV's (metal oxide varistors) wired between the hot and ground, this are disc like devices that actually breakdown at a certain voltage, this breakdown is destructive and you only get so many events before the MOV shorts out and and self destructs. After the damage occurs, you have a good power strip but not a surge arrestor. The other type is a gas tube device, these can take thousands of events and are self resetting. Devices with these can get pricey. We use these at the base of cell towers between the antennas and the very expensive cellular equipment and they handle direct lightning strikes. In a nutshell, a good SPD with gas tube will cost more, but you will probably only have to install it once.
As to using multiple units, the only thing this does for you is that when the one closest to service fries, you still have protection. The electrician's assertion that downstream units will share the surge is not true, if the first one clamps above a certain voltage, then subsequent units will not see that clamping voltage and therefore they will do nothing. But as I said, having them there will provide protection if the first one fails.
He is not joking, people have no idea that surges are shortening the lifespan of everything from LED lightbulbs to refrigerators and that things like refrigerators and air conditioners (inductive motor loads) also cause surges when the shut down. All of this "noise" takes it's toll over time.
@@ronaldwojtylko4375 Hi, and thank you for a detailed explanation. It also makes me curios about the short to ground that you mention in general. What do you mean by short to ground? In an AC panel does the ground be come the source as the current alternates, and limit the current and voltage also? Also is there some form or resistance always on the line (as a safety) to limit the max current flow (eg maybe on the line side before service comes to the location)? Thanks again!
The fuse is a wire. Like any wire it can carry currents for a time. Like 4/0 protective grounds are good for around 40,000 amps for 15 cycles, and 20,000 amps for 30 cycles, prior to burn open aka fusing. So current times time -so 100,000 amps for 0.001 cycles will easily pass through fuses and breakers. A direct lightning stroke will blow the entire panel and everything connected. 2,000,000 amps for 1 cycle time?
@@ronaldwojtylko4375 Excellent description of how different types of surge protection operate.
@@mhavock You can think of a Metal Oxide Varisitor (MOV) as a _resistor_ (a discreet device designed to allow current to flow at a controlled rate) whose amount of resistance is indirectly proportional to voltage across it. Most surge devices have one or more MOVs connected across hot(s) and neutral and hot(s) and ground. At normal voltages, such as 120 or 240 volts, the MOVs are very high resistance, and little to no current goes through them. But, when a voltage spike comes along, especially above the MOV's rated "clamp" voltage, the MOV's resistance drops very low. This "shorts" the high voltage to ground. If the MOV survives the short, it will return to high resistance once the voltage drops back to normal. As Ronald mentioned above, such an event is usually still damaging to the MOV and multiple small surges can destroy it. The size and duration and total power of the surge that the MOV(s) has to handle (versus its design specs) determines how long it will last.
"Short to ground" means diverted to the grounding system, or the _groundING conductor._ Remember that the typical US home electrical service has four wires:
1. Hot #1 (usually black)
2. Neutral (white)
3. Hot #2 (black or red)
4. Ground (bare or green).
The ground wire, or _groundING conductor,_ is the safety wire that is used in all modern wiring. It's connected to the metal chassis of devices to ensure they're grounded. The ground wire is electrically connected to the Earth to ensure it shares the same voltage potential as the Earth. At the main disconnect, the ground wire is also connected to the neutral (the groundED conductor). This ensures that the neutral also has the same potential as the Earth, which makes it safer to humans since they walk on the earth, and also allows the grounding system to find a low-resistance path back to the power source. In turn, should a metal chassis become energized through accidental connection to a "hot", an alternate circuit will be created between the hot and ground wire which will cause a short that will quickly trip the breaker or fuse. The whole point of "short to ground" is to dissipate or cancel out the extra voltage before it reaches any of the circuitry further on.
Unless you are dealing with superconductors, every wire acts as a resistor-that is just the laws of physics. The flow of electric current is subtly resisted by the conductor and is manifested as heat. Each substance has its own degree of acting as a better conductor or better insulator, but these properties also depend on temperature and voltage. Increasing temperature or voltage improves most any substance's ability to conduct electricity. Utility lines do have fuses to isolate and protect different circuits and also surge protectors.
I'm a bit disturbed that the LED indicator on the in-panel surge device lit up before the neutral was connected to the bus.
can you buy those plastic covers for the main lugs like they have on new panels I have the same panel at my house
If the lights are still on those surge protectors are still good? is there a lifespan mine is around 27 years old but lights are still lit
So which device is best to have installed? Or is it both?
If I'm understanding correctly, what these panel surge protectors do is shunt excessive supply voltage to neutral, re-establishing the ideal phase balance temporarily, until the utility company stops sending the surge. Is that correct?
What's the benefit of using a power conditioner as well? What is it? Is it worth it?
*QUESTION:* An electrical surge is a *physical* phenomenon, in the same way that the amount of power in a battery is a physical phenomenon. A battery with *6 amp hours* of energy will be *larger* than a 2 Ah battery - the laws of physics dictates this. My question is: Are circuit breaker surge protectors inferior to standalone surge protectors since the circuit breakers are not only smaller than an externally mounted SPD, but remember that the circuit breaker components take up a lot of space inside the circuit breaker (obviously), which leaves even less room for the physical components which protect from surges. The laws of physics certainly must dictate that the level of surge protection is directly related to the size of the physical components that "absorb" the surge. Yes?
Jeez, landline Cat 3 grey jacketed telephone wiring (and 66 blocks) isn't that old. "Old" would be like a phone I have that predates rotary dialing. (it has no dial)
No surge yet andLED’s flicker sometimes. I’ll see if it helps thanks .
Is that code used in Texas for surge protection I just bought a new house no surge protection
Great informative videos, easy to understand. But please…do not wear rings or jewelry when doing electrical work- even if power is off.
For the DIYers watching this, he is being extremely reckless in working with a hot panel. He has gloves that are not electrically rated, with missing fingertips, etc. There can be wires in there that might have nicks or split insulation. He tightened screws on a hot breaker. If you are not sure about a box or panel, work with one hand behind your back and don't lean on anything that's a potential ground (panel box, water pipes, etc).
Things that are an owww that is live on residential, rarely kills. Some guys do roll snake eyes. When you move to commercial, 480/277 there are no learning experiences, that do not result in injury or death. The ones thst die are the seasoned residetial electricians that go to commercial or industrial. Nuclear code will allow the designer to burn down a small fault to maintain power to important equipment. The electrian can be the small fault.
@@petercampbell4220 Personally I have never felt more than a slight tingle when accidently touching a live 120v wire. But when working around a potentially live circuit I make sure I am not grounded. If I would have been gripping a grounded box or pipe with the other hand when I touched a live wire the shock would have been far more severe. DIYers and new electricians should learn to recognize the tingle as a potentially deadly situation if they happen to ground themselves.
@@Doug-gp2qw The best protection is to shut off the power, and test to make sure it's off. A lot harder to get shocked on a dead line. (Unless you're a utility line worker.)
It's no different than getting hit by a train. Stay off the railroad tracks, and you won't get hit by a train. It's a pretty simple concept.
🥱🥱🥱
A lot of comments here from people who have obviously never worked in the electrical trades. Yes, you should always observe all safety rules. However, there are times when you cannot denergize a building or panel.
Thanks for the video. I have a Cutler Hammer panel That is seated between studs and surrounded by drywall. My understanding is to avoid interior panel mounts yet this panel cover has a knockout that is perfectly sized for my SPD at the top of the breakers. The two pole breaker that the unit will wire to is going to be at the very bottom near the inbound supply. I’m trying to minimize the wiring run but there doesn’t seem to be any other option than to have this mounted at the knockout position inside. Just wondered what your take is on the whole interior mounting thing. What’s the real downside versus mounting it just on the outside of the panel?
give the breaker next to the main shut off. mount the surge protector outside the panel near the breaker and ground / neutral bus . thus keeping the wires as short as possible
So, how do you determine the size of spd you need?
50A is plenty for an EV. For 5 EVs you can service them with 200A with Tesla wall connectors which share. You don’t need to charge all the cars at the same time the whole night. This is crazy. In addition to panel surge protectors, and APS with surge protection on each computer and router.
What is the torque screw driver that you use?
What’s the difference between this surge protection and the ultra?
Amazing video!! Watch out Electrician-U, this guy is coming for you!
I have a 100A panel I'd to add a surge protector to. Unfortunately it's a) flush to the wall and b) uses old CH breakers, otherwise I'd just add an in breaker one such as the one by GE (which says it needs their panel so I guess I can't use it). As such, I've looked at the Eaton CHSPT2SURGE but there is no space inside the panel and I can't leave it in the wall cavity. If I went the Eaton route, what sort of conduit / parts would you recommend that I could break out from the wall and surface mount the SPD and be code compliant? If there's an easier way I'm all ears.
Hey Joel: I just watched this video. As with all of your videos, I learned a bunch of new stuff. You are a rock star! Anyway … My main Murray panel has a Siemens QSA2020SPD circuit breaker/surge arrestor. My Crouse-Hinds sub panel has no protection … and also no spaces left. I do have a double pole 30amp breaker for a 240 volt garage heater (10/2 Romex). Can the Eaton CHSPT2SURGE you referenced in the video somehow be used in conjunction with this breaker?
Many thanks! Firstly, the SPD in your main panel is providing protection to your sub panel. If you'd still like to get an SPD in your sub the consider whether your breaker is only rated for 1 terminal per lug. If so then, allowed by many jurisdictions but not all, you can pigtail off your breaker and junction to your load and SPD leads inside or adjacent to your sub panel within an enclosure.
@@ElectricProAcademy Thank you for your timely reply, Joel. A happy and safe July 4th to you and your large family! I am almost certain that you said an SPD has to be provided at each “level?” If the SPD I have in the main panel covers the sub-panel then I am good with that. For my edification, how do you tell if breaker allows more than one wire per lug?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated!
The Klein screwdriver you are using is not an insulated tool. The handle is designed for comfort and fatigue reduction.
Site specific articles relating to each task including the reasons that a code change has been adopted.
Always begin with the purpose of the code: "To protect life, and property from the hazards of the use of electricity."
Omit all references pertaining to utilities.
Surge protection is mandated under the 2020NEC, Indiana is under the 2008 NEC, how is this mandated in Indiana?
Great video... I did not know they were available in a simple breaker configuration (I always thought they were installed outside the panel). I'm picking one up today to install while I have the panel open to put in my new breakers. I see that Siemens even makes one that has two built in 20 breakers to save space and not eat up two extra positions (QSA2020SPD). Tx!
Great video! I don't have a surge protector and replaced a SL22 thermistor in the ecm blower motor module of my two stage furnace a couple years ago. Did the thermistor burn because I don't? And second.. I don't have room in my breaker panel for a surge protector breaker and probably shouldn't put it in the sub panel. Can I protect my furnace with a device in the furnace? Or should I go the whole nine yards and replace my main panel? Thanks
It's quite probable that every premature failure of an electronic component in your house could be connected to small consistent or large occasional surges. Your options include:
1. Use tandem/space saving breakers in your panel if allowed by the panel listing (see inside cover of panel)
2. Land a "non-breaker style" surge device to your breaker if the breaker is rated for two conductors (see breaker data sheet)
3. Combine two loads, investigation and discretion required (there are codes that limit this). Here's a tip on how ruclips.net/video/tF4sVKf_D34/видео.html
4. Use an SPD rated for the service equipment and locate it in your external disconnect (advanced solution)
In Minnesota alot of people just use surge protection extension plugs
Canadian code requires that power be removed before working a device in this case a panel. In this case you have a live panel. Also you are not wearing approved arc fault clothing.
He takes far too many chances. I hope he doesn't get injured.
Is 240V arc fault anything to compare to a _real_ power arc fault?
@@jovetj Depends if there is a circuit breaker on the line.
10kA at 240V can vaporize tools.
Thanks for a video! For myself siemens fs140
Jesus Christ, 8 kids!? Bro, you're not an electrician, you're a plumber.
How does the 15" working room translate to a recessed panel behind drywall?
@@ElectricProAcademy Many homes have them installed that way if in a garage. Same with the sub-panel you replaced in your home in another video. The cover is essentially flush with drywall.
Question - are there any methods of protecting a home from a sudden break in the neutral or damage from the utility? My mother in law lost a bunch of appliances when a dump truck hit the line outside. I get how the surge protector uses varistor to clamp voltage spikes but I’m not sure it will save you from this.
A customer actually told one of our guys recently that in a similar catastrophic event, the surge protector split in 2 but only 1 outlet receptacle was fried in the house! We may try to get him in front of a camera...
The last time I tried to hold a panel cover with my shoulder, it fell on my foot. Ouch! I like to watch electrical-themed videos where I learn about codes. My house is 35 years old. I have seen many examples of work that do not seem to pass the current regulation. If this work was done many years ago, am I covered by some form of 'grandfather' clause.' My electric company offered me an option to have a whole-house surge protector installed. The electric company replaced the meter with a surge protector type. Is my whole house now surge-protected? BTW, my electric bill shows a 'Surge' fee.
Question, you said that the breaker can have two conductors under the terminal, could you have left the range breaker in place and added that surge suppressor? I was told no before and wondering what you think?
No. Surge protectors like this need their own individual circuit breaker that serves nothing else.
@@jovetj Thank you for the response I was thinking that since you did put it in own breaker but was not sure
And simply state that the surge protective device be installed per instructions as the code requires.
You might have a "Grandfather" clause which means, at least in my area, is that if a house was built during the time that a specific violation was allowed, that you do not have to address it. That's how I got "bit" buying this house, not realizing there was no grounding outlets and only seeing 4 cloth Romex cables, with everything else being more modern, not realizing that the idiot that put the wiring in, cut all the grounds out of the wires, when he could have easily grounded them. It is as if he doesn't believe in ground wires or something, and it's made nothing but a big headache and grief for me. At least MOST of the electrical and gang boxes are metal and not that awful plastic, so If I can at least get those bonded to a ground wire, I have some protections. All the outlets I buy, the yoke and ground hole and plate screw all have continuity so even if a grounding outlet was installed, but no ground wire, if the metal box was grounded, there would still be ground protection. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case here, and the crooked realtor cited the "Grandfather" clause.
I go out of my way to not have LED bulbs. I hate the damn things.
Yes, I have been shocked before. When I was a kid, maybe 3 or 4, yes, I remember that, I used to take the bulb out of my nightlight and stick my finger in there. After about the third time, and my arm feeling tingly, I got the idea to not do that anymore. I didn't soon forget that feeling either.
Another time, I was poking around a power supply, that was not plugged in. I touched a capacitor lead with a non insulated screw driver and it accidentally touched the housing. Got a big spark, a loud pop, and a lot of pain and I was stunned for several minutes.
Another time, I was working with a fuse box in my car and got burned... I am betting you have been shocked before.
Also, an inexperienced person should ABSOLUTELY NOT be in their panel. The horrors I have in this house, the person was not qualified to change a light bulb.
Great job to convince me to hire a professional that I will spend some of my kid’s inheritance, LOL
While a voltage surge is considered an issue, how does this relate to amps? Isn't it amps that would eventually infiltrate devices and wreck them or could it be said that if voltage meets little resistance then the amps would almost equal the voltage? Thanks
Keep in mind that:
watts (power) = volts × amps
To compare to water:
gallons_per_minute = pressure × capacity_of_tube
If the pressure in your home's plumbing is 40 psi... and a sudden surge of 4000 psi enters your home, some pipes are going to explode.
Voltage spikes literally burn out delicate circuits such as electronics that cannot handle the voltage. The instantaneous amperage passing through doesn't exactly matter because the _power_ going through is more than the device can bear. The device is damaged, and will either fail instantly or slowly degrade over time until it does fail.
Another thing that equation above tells us is that voltage and amperage are inversely proportional for the same amount of power. While keeping power constant, reducing the voltage increases the amperage, and vice-versa. Power lines are such high voltages so that the conductors can be small enough to be practical while still delivering the desired amount of total raw power.
Excellent. Well done.😊
I am a Fifty plus year master and retired instructor. Stay on the journey...
And you should mention that when grounding and bonding 90 percent of fault current is carried by the neutral back to the source. Always do the math!
You could make a cover & gasket. Not that you want to or it recommended but you totally could with new cover, gasket material & tap
Great video. I know you know what your doing, but man I can't help but wince in fear when you are messing with the live panel.
Very fair. We highly endorse killing power whenever possible.
Why take a chance? really, no insulated gloves, working with a live box? even a master will get complacent at some point!
The teaching aspect with explainations was one of the most complete on surges and main vs sub panel installation that I've watched so far!
This old house has a kitchen light switch with load line in and load out that's it. No neutral and no ground. Help
May be knob and Tube wiring.
Typically modern electricians need to replace it since they are not trained on it.
Instruction is not entertainment. A good instructor is engaging... Not a comic.
Why can't we save your video's for later reference? There's no save button available above.
It appears in the 3-dot menu next to the "Share" button for us.
@@ElectricProAcademy THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I really appreciate it!
That $50 whole house surge protector now costs $94. I paid $47 when I installed mine.
hwat if that customer needs a replacement cabinet then u cannot use that surgeprotector on a new subpanel sice you cut the cable that short... not a negative comment just an observation.. love your videos btw..
Surge protection: Best wiring practice?
If an appliance (Dishwasher) requires 13.5 Amps or less. Is it best to use the minimum code: 15A, 14Awg circuit and wire, or to upgrade (Future Proof) to 20A,12Awg circuit and wire. If a surge should occur does the 15A or 20A circuit provide more protection to the Dishwasher? Does the smaller 15A circuit provide better Appliance protection by limiting the current and amperage from breaker to Device?
Also remember that circuits are commonly thought-derated to 80% of their ampacity. 13.5 amps is greater than the ( 80% of 15A = *12A* ) continuous expected ampacity of a 15 amp circuit. Right, Joel?
Unless there is a short-circuit, the standard circuit breaker operates on a time delay, and does not protect against voltage spikes.
The breakers are mainly there to prevent the wires from catching fire.
There are shareable EV charging solutions. You can easily charge 5 - 15 vehicles easily on one 50 amp circuit.
Based on average commutes I calculated that each car needs about 24A to charge within 8 hours.
But yes: I think 400A is a bit of over-kill for L2 charging.
Is there any difference between breaker type vs regular breaker and 1 that sits outside of panel
Can you be more specific? Not sure what you mean.
@@jovetj in the video the 1st 1 is breaker type spd and the 2nd 1 being regular breaker/ spd on outside of panel just wondering if there is a difference between the 2 in protection wise
@@mcloude1 Not really. The external surge devices can be more robust since they can be larger than a circuit breaker space. It really comes down to the specs an individual device is designed around. The more surge current it can handle, the better.
@@jovetj thank you for ur help am going with 1 outside the panel the eaton chspt2ultra has higher Ka then the breaker style 1 from eaton
Surge protection is a requirement as types 1 or 2.
Ain't no electrician that never got shocked...
Greetings Joe, Enjoyed your video. I have a couple questions that you might be able to shed some light on.
There are various Surge Protection Device (SPD) Type levels, 1, 2, etc.. I am interested in Type 2 & 1. Briefly, Type 2 is for the load side of the electrical box and Type 1 is typical for for the Utility side installations; I think the Type 1 can be used for the Type 2 load side as well.
Do normal residential electrical panels have the capability to incorporate, in series in the panel, a Type 1 SPD before the MAINS breakers in the panel. If so, why would it be necessary to install a Type 2 SPD in the panel when the meter is on the outside meter 8" away. Couldn't the Type 1 perform both the functions of Type 1 and Type 2?
Lastly, isn't there a minimum distance required for installing SPDs? Too close together could have the the Utility side SPD surge take out the loadside SPD?
Thanks for your insights :^)
_“I think the Type 1 can be used for the Type 2 load side as well.”_
I don't think so.
The electric utility owns the meter and controls access inside the meter enclosure, but all the rest belongs to the customer. "Utility" surge devices could include a surge-protecting meter, but could also be on the utility pole or pad transformer.
Could flickering lights mean I needed a surge protector?
Perhaps a loose connection in the neutral.
You can check the breakers for heat/noise. You could have arcing happening.
We recently replaced our 45 year old panel due to that problem.
How much does it usually cost for the parts and labor from a electrician?
Just hired a electrician 750 dollars
It’s worth it
IMO the surge protector should only live INSIDE the metal enclosure of the load center. A longer-duration surge (non transient, such as a neutral fault) can cause the SPD to pass more power than it can handle (more than it can dissipate the heat for/of), and literally burn. You definitely don't want a smoldering/burning thing outside your panel (e.g. on that plywood backer board).
l wish SPDs could be coupled with a shunt trip main breaker to disconnect the entire pane for these types of surges that it can't protect from.
Instead, some have famously failed to protect while burning down the house (Sycom).
@@ElectricProAcademy Yeah, it's a big deal. I'm not an expert in SPD design, and maybe not all SPDs fail in an unsafe way (e.g. can't catch fire due to overloading because they have been carefully designed with internal fusing etc), but open neutrals definitely create an overload condition for SPDs, so you're definitely relying solely on any safety features the SPD has (or doesn't have). As you know, open neutrals are dangerous enough, and are enough of a foreseeable event (tree falling, improper ground rod etc.) that it seems kind of a shame that SPDs offer zero protection for this event, when they could so easily do so.
I was quoted $250, is this reasonable?
Wow he was really flexing about his home. Wow 8000 square feet. Gotta reconsider my career choices.
Even a big squirrel lmmaaoooo
You are a very geeky electrician, even tighten and loosen, tighten and loosen ...etc, I've seen. LOL!!
Wonderful job thank you so much
Why cant you connect neutral and ground on the same screw?
Neutral and ground are 2 different electrical paths and destinations. One is "seeking" to correct imbalance within the grid, and 1 is "seeking" to correct the imbalance with the earth. By connecting both, the electrical paths will both behave inconsistently, driving up cost, resistance, and danger.
@@ElectricProAcademy In some panels I have seen only one. So what do you do?
Buy a ground bar from the manufacturer and screw it into the panel casing. There are normally several pre-drilled spots to choose from.
My Brother, need to wear a hot suit when you going to work in a hot panel.
Do not need what you call a hot suit for 120/240 volt panels but approved PPE. We always used a 11Cal long sleeve shirt and a 11 Cal blue jeans along with hard hat w/ tinted visor and ear plugs . Had heavy 40 & 50CAL suites for switching & racking 13,200 volt equipment. Only good thing high Cal jump bags had hard hats with a battery operated cooling fan. Too many guys do not bother sending their 600 & 15,000 volt rubber & canvas gloves out to be tested every 6 months.
Have you ever been shocked before?
must be a millionair if getting 5 telsas
SAFETY : I think it’s time replace that old worn out gloves. Right? I see some holes on the tip of your fingers. Be careful. Good content
Those gloves are not electrically rated, just cut-resistant, so it really just comes down to personal comfort. When the fingers come off it's actually a little nice to have the improved dexterity. Some of our guys cut the fingertips off of their gloves as soon as they get new ones!
@@ElectricProAcademy Lmao…”When the fingers come off it’s actually a little nice”…and then some. Your funny!
8 kids??? Now we know what you do in your off time 😛