I really like what Isabel is teaching right here. Quick transitions are the name of the game for moving up. They teach the rider to use the body and aids correctly and the horse to listen and respond quickly to the aids. Toward the end the horse was much more forward and uphill, and the rider had her reins lower and correct, and her body upright and deep in the saddle in order to be more effective. Always love watching teaching sessions. Visuals with audio are always better for learning, IMO. 🙂🙏
@@vibeskouenborg6842 Isabel is not asking for hyper flexion or mouth stress. All the way through the training pyramid, the bend in the horse should be at the same angle as the circle that the horse is traveling, from nose to tail, with the inside rein controlling the bend and the outside rein the tempo and most importantly effective half halts , following the seat and legs. The horse has a bit (s) in its mouth for the communication of messages from the rider and the use of its hind end over its back to the bit. If the hands are used correctly, and gently, the messages received shouldn't be causing discomfort. IMO, this horse isn't showing signs of discomfort, but acceptance. The rider's legs are conveying keep moving from the inside leg to how much with the outside rein. The outside or right leg when tracking Left controls the arc of the bend and does not allow the horse to swing its haunches to the outside of the arc and angle of the circle, meaning that the horse must use its hindquarters and body correctly for balance. Again, IMO, Isabel is not asking this rider to " take hold of that rein and bend bend bend. " She's just asking her to bend the horse to the arc of her circle , half halt for more energy, and the change in the horse 's energy and " frame " if you will, improves visibly at the end. From the moment we put a bit in the horse 's mouth at starting, longing, backing and riding, a good trainer teaches the horse to trust the bit and the rider's hands. This should not be uncomfortable or painful, unless the horse has a Dental problem. I don't know why anytime a rider has flexion and uses their reins appropriately, you guys always cry " hyperflexion ". I suppose that when we have to make an 8 m circle, it really drives you crazy. And anytime the horse moves its mouth, it MUST be discomfort. It's called working the bit. Yes, if the horse is going around with its mouth open constantly or is grinding its teeth, the horse is uncomfortable. As a point of reference, whenever I tacked up my GP horse getting him ready for our warmup, he would stand there chomping away and slobbering like a faucet. The bit was like a pacifier for him, and when I rode him, he continued to foam and slobber and occasionally open his mouth, as we sometimes do when we chew gum, but not from discomfort. This is just my humble opinion.
@@jinxkrug7000 Vibe wasn’t talking about lateral flexion. Keeping a horse purposely behind the vertical is imo the definition of hyperflexion. The best position will almost always be slightly in front of the vertical, which this horse does not reach even once this ride. Sure, I do think this horse was quite content(or conditioned..). But that doesn’t mean this not damaging. This position is not in any way natural, ideal or practical. It’s proven to be damaging and (taken far enough) uncomfortable. Just think about what he sees (literal) while being ridden like this for example.. We really need to stop applauding this type of riding, if we really care about our horses and their (future) well-being.
@@claudia273 OK, let me start by saying that I rewatched this video 2 more times taking into consideration of what both of your comments were, and I know what you are saying and thinking, but I still disagree with your assessment of what Isabel is teaching and talking about. She is talking about lateral flexion, and she also addresses the " hyper flexion " as you call it, in several different directions to the rider. Isabel tells the rider several times to lower her hands, since she has developed the habit of holding them high with a more outstretched arm, not bent at the elbows and held at her sides. She has therefore no flexibility and/or ability to follow the horse 's neck or jaw. With Isabel telling her to lower her hands and stating " give to your horse" and give, and come, and give, and use your voice, cluck, cluck , I believe in a nice way Isabel is teaching the rider the correct way of using her hand position and her actions on the bit,head and neck at the proper angle to be easier on the bit and encourage her horse to be more active and not checked back by her hands, stating more jump; come, come, more jump, jump etc. Yah, yah. And low and behold the horse rises up in front and the position of the head comes up. Not perfect, but definitely better. The rest of her teaching is all about lateral flexion. But not once does Isabel condone the horizontal flexion, but discourages it by addressing the hand position and giving to the horse and by giving with her hands she allows the horse to activate and unblock the hind legs and allow more jump and up and forwardness in the horse. I know that I am repeating myself and I am trying to make the point that I believe Isabel is trying to make. She's more politically correct in her way of doing this, than I might be or you and Vibe, but I believe that she is trying to correct this baaad habit. These people with too strong hands, in a totally wrong positioning, with straight, inflexible arms, especially in a young horse, as I believe this horse is, totally blocks the activity and push from the hind legs. In actuality, she,the rider, is squeezing her horse into the " frame ". It gets better at the end, thankfully.
@@jinxkrug7000 The riding ''Bible'' says it is the horse who is supposed to seek the contact to the bit, not the ride- liker here. When the rider saw the horse in mouth like her, And draw back, there will never be an understanding. Or a lightness. A half halt is supposed to be heard, answered and then rewarded. Here the rein tells '1000' things without the rider listen for any answer- only jack jack jack ''dead riding''. If the horse is ridden with inside leg to outside rein, the inside rein is supposed to kind of slack- here is full tension both sides. The horse never bend in body, the shoulder or hind end falls out. And it is never bend in the neck(BIG MISTAKE)- The beat is often broken and 4 beated(BIG MISTAKE). If the horse is on the bit, the mouth need to be closed. If it is opening, like her, there is tension in jaw, tongue bone, neck and on and on the tension go. The horse need ''lossgelassicheit''. And the horse does it of a reason- pain, uncomfortable. Horses always has a reason for doing things. The mouth need vacuum the make the horse breath properly and all other functions. If the mouth is forced to open, it is a disaster. If the horse is shaped by reins, like here, the thorax will never get engaged, - instead there will be a sharp angle where neck- and chest vertebrae meet. The horse is supposed to shape it self, rise the front, when it is strong and ready. The rider is not able to shape the horse in a good way. The hindlegs carry weight BEHIND the horse- because of hyperflexion. And it is not possible the bend the body, - the body cannot bend both horizontal and vertical. This is disaster riding.
here we see a horse getting sawed down behind vertical, unbalanced , falling out of the cirkle, mouth stress, hindleg carry weight behind the horse, it is not bended in the neck, the rider never wait to see if the horse listen to a half halt. Just sawing in the mouth. Disaster.
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I really like what Isabel is teaching right here. Quick transitions are the name of the game for moving up. They teach the rider to use the body and aids correctly and the horse to listen and respond quickly to the aids. Toward the end the horse was much more forward and uphill, and the rider had her reins lower and correct, and her body upright and deep in the saddle in order to be more effective. Always love watching teaching sessions. Visuals with audio are always better for learning, IMO. 🙂🙏
you like hyperflexion and mouth stress?
@@vibeskouenborg6842
Isabel is not asking for hyper flexion or mouth stress. All the way through the training pyramid, the bend in the horse should be at the same angle as the circle that the horse is traveling, from nose to tail, with the inside rein controlling the bend and the outside rein the tempo and most importantly effective half halts , following the seat and legs. The horse has a bit (s) in its mouth for the communication of messages from the rider and the use of its hind end over its back to the bit. If the hands are used correctly, and gently, the messages received shouldn't be causing discomfort. IMO, this horse isn't showing signs of discomfort, but acceptance. The rider's legs are conveying keep moving from the inside leg to how much with the outside rein. The outside or right leg when tracking Left controls the arc of the bend and does not allow the horse to swing its haunches to the outside of the arc and angle of the circle, meaning that the horse must use its hindquarters and body correctly for balance. Again, IMO, Isabel is not asking this rider to " take hold of that rein and bend bend bend. " She's just asking her to bend the horse to the arc of her circle , half halt for more energy, and the change in the horse 's energy and " frame " if you will, improves visibly at the end.
From the moment we put a bit in the horse 's mouth at starting, longing, backing and riding, a good trainer teaches the horse to trust the bit and the rider's hands. This should not be uncomfortable or painful, unless the horse has a Dental problem. I don't know why anytime a rider has flexion and uses their reins appropriately, you guys always cry " hyperflexion ". I suppose that when we have to make an 8 m circle, it really drives you crazy. And anytime the horse moves its mouth, it MUST be discomfort. It's called working the bit. Yes, if the horse is going around with its mouth open constantly or is grinding its teeth, the horse is uncomfortable. As a point of reference, whenever I tacked up my GP horse getting him ready for our warmup, he would stand there chomping away and slobbering like a faucet. The bit was like a pacifier for him, and when I rode him, he continued to foam and slobber and occasionally open his mouth, as we sometimes do when we chew gum, but not from discomfort. This is just my humble opinion.
@@jinxkrug7000 Vibe wasn’t talking about lateral flexion. Keeping a horse purposely behind the vertical is imo the definition of hyperflexion. The best position will almost always be slightly in front of the vertical, which this horse does not reach even once this ride.
Sure, I do think this horse was quite content(or conditioned..). But that doesn’t mean this not damaging. This position is not in any way natural, ideal or practical. It’s proven to be damaging and (taken far enough) uncomfortable. Just think about what he sees (literal) while being ridden like this for example..
We really need to stop applauding this type of riding, if we really care about our horses and their (future) well-being.
@@claudia273
OK, let me start by saying that I rewatched this video 2 more times taking into consideration of what both of your comments were, and I know what you are saying and thinking, but I still disagree with your assessment of what Isabel is teaching and talking about. She is talking about lateral flexion, and she also addresses the " hyper flexion " as you call it, in several different directions to the rider. Isabel tells the rider several times to lower her hands, since she has developed the habit of holding them high with a more outstretched arm, not bent at the elbows and held at her sides. She has therefore no flexibility and/or ability to follow the horse 's neck or jaw. With Isabel telling her to lower her hands and stating " give to your horse" and give, and come, and give, and use your voice, cluck, cluck , I believe in a nice way Isabel is teaching the rider the correct way of using her hand position and her actions on the bit,head and neck at the proper angle to be easier on the bit and encourage her horse to be more active and not checked back by her hands, stating more jump; come, come, more jump, jump etc.
Yah, yah. And low and behold the horse rises up in front and the position of the head comes up. Not perfect, but definitely better. The rest of her teaching is all about lateral flexion. But not once does Isabel condone the horizontal flexion, but discourages it by addressing the hand position and giving to the horse and by giving with her hands she allows the horse to activate and unblock the hind legs and allow more jump and up and forwardness in the horse. I know that I am repeating myself and I am trying to make the point that I believe Isabel is trying to make. She's more politically correct in her way of doing this, than I might be or you and Vibe, but I believe that she is trying to correct this baaad habit. These people with too strong hands, in a totally wrong positioning, with straight, inflexible arms, especially in a young horse, as I believe this horse is, totally blocks the activity and push from the hind legs. In actuality, she,the rider, is squeezing her horse into the " frame ". It gets better at the end, thankfully.
@@jinxkrug7000 The riding ''Bible'' says it is the horse who is supposed to seek the contact to the bit, not the ride- liker here. When the rider saw the horse in mouth like her, And draw back, there will never be an understanding. Or a lightness. A half halt is supposed to be heard, answered and then rewarded. Here the rein tells '1000' things without the rider listen for any answer- only jack jack jack ''dead riding''.
If the horse is ridden with inside leg to outside rein, the inside rein is supposed to kind of slack- here is full tension both sides. The horse never bend in body, the shoulder or hind end falls out. And it is never bend in the neck(BIG MISTAKE)- The beat is often broken and 4 beated(BIG MISTAKE).
If the horse is on the bit, the mouth need to be closed. If it is opening, like her, there is tension in jaw, tongue bone, neck and on and on the tension go. The horse need ''lossgelassicheit''. And the horse does it of a reason- pain, uncomfortable. Horses always has a reason for doing things.
The mouth need vacuum the make the horse breath properly and all other functions. If the mouth is forced to open, it is a disaster.
If the horse is shaped by reins, like here, the thorax will never get engaged, - instead there will be a sharp angle where neck- and chest vertebrae meet.
The horse is supposed to shape it self, rise the front, when it is strong and ready. The rider is not able to shape the horse in a good way. The hindlegs carry weight BEHIND the horse- because of hyperflexion. And it is not possible the bend the body, - the body cannot bend both horizontal and vertical.
This is disaster riding.
Great effort from the rider with a big moving young horse in a new invironment.
I love how nothing bothers Isabell, “ doesn’t matter”, she just coaches you to ride through it…. Just how she would.
Beautiful, beautiful coaching. Superb!
I'm exhausted just watching 😥. Very intense lesson!
here we see a horse getting sawed down behind vertical, unbalanced , falling out of the cirkle, mouth stress, hindleg carry weight behind the horse, it is not bended in the neck, the rider never wait to see if the horse listen to a half halt. Just sawing in the mouth. Disaster.
All of those things are things young or inexperienced horses do frequently which would make sense, considering this is a coaching class 🙄
@@candykkhorsesngp925 yes it is getting ''better'' when they have learned more helplessness with this flooding riding.
Nice Horse 😎
The horse is behind the vertical quite often.
Quite often? ALL THE TIME! DISASTER RIDING
@@vibeskouenborg6842 I did not want to be so blunt. :) but yes you are correct.
@@f.schulef4403 for the horses sake we have to speek loud about this