“I saved $5k for an engagement ring. She secretly took the money”
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- Опубликовано: 4 фев 2025
- Ramit Sethi of I Will Teach You To Be Rich talks to Michelle (33) and Matt (31), who have been dating for seven years but are stuck in relationship limbo, waiting to get married until Michelle deals with her financial problems. Michelle makes great income as a nurse, but she has a mountain of debt from student loans. Matt works in finance, and tries to help, but Michelle has loan payments and debts that he doesn’t even know about. Today we’ll see if we can unearth the root of these money problems so Michelle and Matt can take the next step in their relationship.
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Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
As a nurse she can work over time and use that money to paydown the debt. No nurse should feel helpless with debt. There are so many work available at the hospitals, clinics home care agencies. If she works at a hospital they are always looking for volunteers to work OT and some hospital makes it mandatory. That pay is time and and a half pay so she can do it. I don't think she is exploring all her options. She' too focus on the numbers.
Yes but you let her off way too easy. She was clearly lying to you Smh
Ramit, I love you to death man, but you either need to bring a couples therapist to these sessions or become a clinical couples therapist. You missed A LOT with this couple. What I saw in the first 30 minutes that you missed
-For her
1. She's parentified now, I can infer that this has likely been happening since childhood and her mom probably did this to her.
2. She has avoidant codependency: her mom was probably emotionally volatile and made her child responsible for the mother's well being and this is why she puts herself last and doesn't face her own problem or ever tell her family no. It's also why she hid her situation from her boyfriend for 7 years. It's also why she's so manipulative of his feelings and probably why they haven't just broken up.
3. Chaotic attachment style: it explains why she avoids somethings and clings to others
- these are all classic abuse victim traits. She was a victim of child abuse and she's currently LIVING WITH HER ABUSERS! This isn't a money discussion, this is a woman who needs to be rescued from her awful family (she blames her dad, but her mom is at least as awful as he is)
-For him (less because he barely talked)
1. Trust issues: the reason he wasn't pissed off was because he never really trusted her to begin with, he probably doesn't trust anyone
2. Avoident attachment style: this is why he never bothered to confront her on her issues.
3. Codependent: I would rather not fight that be in a healthy situation
4. Low eq: he doesn't have the vocabulary to talk about what is happening with his emotions and I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't blind to his own emotions most of the time.
- I would love to have heard about his childhood. But you ignored it because her debt made you focus on her more.
Again I love the shit out of you but you're going to be having these kinds of conversations a lot, and you're not qualified to help these people right now. It's scary, and it's a disservice to your fans. You have an amazing intuitive grasp for thus stuff but you are lacking the specific education to really get at the issues. This woman is an abuse victim and she doesn't realize it. A real therapist would be able to at least handle this in a debrief.
Note: I am not a therapist, but this couple has A LOT of similarities with my wife and I and we have been to years of therapy to deal with it.
Shes an abuse victim, stop being part of the problem. You wouldn't blame a woman for being raped so stop blaming a child for being broken by her parents
@@101289teutonicguy That's no excuse, she needs to grow up. You obviously enable your Wife as well. This woman is a liar plain and simple. I think you're reading into it way too much. You said a whole lot for someone who is not a professional. No one is blaming her for being a child abuse victim. We are blaming her for being a damn liar and thief. I was abused as a child and I'm not a liar nor a thief. That is just an excuse for bad behavior.
“There’s no one coming to save you here.” This is why Ramit will always have what Ramsey and Hammer will dream of. The ability to tell the truth with compassion and respect the dignity of the person hearing it.
Bravo. You’re a good soul.
That comment was spot on by Ramit. Nothing changes until people take control of and responsibility for their own money habits.
👏👏👏
Thank you!! Yes, totally agree.
"The ability to tell the truth with compassion and respect the dignity of the person hearing it" - exactly what Ramsey does.
@ hard disagree. Ramsay is too often patronizing and doesn’t help people understand why something is wrong or counter productive. Trust Jesus and do what I say isn’t respect or dignity, that’s just demanding obedience.
She puts her supposedly abusive family over him? She stole money from him? He signed a personal loan for her, and she did nothing to change her behavior? Dude, run.
Tbf with the father if the mother is constantly over spending and putting them in debts and also hiding debts then it would be a good idea to put the brakes on her somehow. If not, you'd lose everything. Also if daughter is following her path then yes I'd try there too.
He’s not going anywhere
@@stop08it Nope. And at 50 he will realize he wasted his life on someone who didn't care about him. You don't steal from people you care about.
I've lived this with a family member before and IT NEVER ENDS!!!! Tears and anger are used to manipulate.
@@Thenandagainthe fact he wasn’t upset about it really speaks volumes. He’s codependent with her, he works in finance and DID NOT ask to see her finances before signing a loan for her?!?! He needs to reflect on why he’s staying and not having boundaries and consequences with her. He’s a people-pleaser too
He needs to run. She’s manipulating this entire situation. No matter what childhood you had or your money psychology, stealing is stealing.
Even after stealing she wants her boyfriend to feel bad for her...little crocodile tears
The pretending to cry... ahh she is a real manipulator
Well said 👍
I really appreciated the way you called her out on her fake "I wouldn't marry me" BS. It is a manipulative tactic to guilt Matt into alleviating guilt, when its a deflection tactic.
And her crocodile tears... I hope he wakes up. She stole from him!
I agree that it’s ultimately manipulative but it really can be so subconscious for people, not necessarily malicious. Realizing how much my parents have done that to me as I get older. I really couldn’t even see it.
If she can steal from her boyfriend and not think twice, makes me think that she really did forge her dad's signature. She is manipulative and doesn't even know it.
@@KiltBill2 Ramit was soft on her 🤨
@feliciawilliams5720 he's not Hammer ir a relationship ship coach. It's not his style or right to go in hard oncharecter flaws.
Matt actually concerns me more than her. What is his upbringing that makes him stay with a woman that steals a substantial amount of money from him? At his income level, $5,000 probably took him a while to save, so him to just be “disappointed” is unsettling. Not to mention it doesn’t sound like there’s any interest/ intention of paying him back. She actually doubles down and asks him about a ring! I get that he loves her, but he is too calm about the extra $100k debt he didn’t know about. Also for him to just automatically assume responsibility for $230k debt… Ramit had to point out to him that the debt wasn’t his to pay off!! I’m so glad he moved back home.
I was so freaked out when he talked about going to a jewelry store for motivation for her. If her motivation is only so that she can marry him, then what motivates her after that? And after children are in the mix? I'm sorry, Ramit, you were way to soft on her. She's a manipulator and you didn't call it out.
Matt seems like he put her on probation because of the theft. I don't understand how they are still together. Michelle should have offered to repay him. What are her morals, that she could take her boyfriends money without asking? Some serious issues here.
Red flags !! Took the money. What ? This is bigger than money now it’s trust !
@@Trudloops I was shook. I was like oh wow, took money from his safe, that's bad ... Wait, $5000?!?!?!? I've never even taken a $20 from my now-husband's wallet without telling him, and I'm sure the opposite is true of him.
I have a small business on the side that pays cash and it struck me one day that I just straight had $600 lying on the dresser and I wasn't worried at ALL that some would go missing.
Growing up I always had to hide any money I got from my mom. I started trying to save cash in an envelope system at age 13, saving my lunch money for a car at 16, helping pay rent if my parents ever divorced, stuff like that, and goddammit she always found them and raided them for beer money. The feeling of trusting someone around money for the first time is an unspeakable relief.
Matt is a great catch himself, I hope he gets that feeling someday!
My father is like this. He will shake his head in shame at the things mother does but he doesn't say anything just to keep the peace. She does crazy or super sabotaging acts and he will just adjust HIS behavior to prevent drama. Its infuriating. He will just justify it as "be respectful to your mother"...but he won't divorce her because that's wrong and a man is suppose to care for a woman and all that...but also, he doesn't trust her at all. At this point in life, its very VERY limited the things she has access or control to that he hasn't already taken full control over....he will never call her out on her bs, he just avoids all talk about her actions. Did I mention its infuriating.
Gender roles are very real, because we wouldn't give so much mercy to a guy that stole $5k from his gf.
I feel like that was a good time for him to cut his losses and leave. Don’t fall into a sunk cost fallacy
No one is giving this thief any shred of grace. Read the comments.
I feel this comment. You are right. She's somewhat good looking and young as well. Pretty privilege is real.
P.S. No one goes from zero to stealing 5000 from a loved one. This isn't the first time she's taken money if she is honest.
@@Playingwithproxies I think he's kind of enjoying playing hero. It's not all sunk cost.
@@neisci The host barely brushed over it. The host would have called out any guy that was stealing and honestly, most women would have dumped a guy stealing from them.
She scares me, so much manipulation, self loathing, and self sabotage, I have no idea what to trust she’s saying
I felt manipulation as well. Which explains why her boyfriend is so passive, he has literally no spine. She just kept calling herself worthless and disgusting but despite those intense feelings she had absolutely no plan.
@@amandawithlov3908 yeah, but thankfully Rammit called her on it. That she says this so that her BF stops being justifiably angry at her, and has to console her, instead.
Her behavior is pretty in line with an addict's. The lying, stealing to support her habits, compromising her relationships.
@@sarelloo you might be right. Maybe not her own but medical pros have a ton of addiction issues. Possibly in her family? Either way, hers is a terrible way to live. I hope Matt reconsiders marriage. He is a great place with people who love him. He needs to cut is loses and move on.
@carynmills5922 for sure, this is a vast generalization, but being a nurse is a lot like being a server. Aptitude for high stress, chaotic environment paired with high emotionality with caring for people, serving people, etc. The venn diagram is pretty overlapping with addictive traits.
I appreciate the new trend on this channel. Couples in realistic money scenarios not just people with five million dollars and afraid to spend it
Yes? I'm really irritated by this episode. I feel like I just watched a guy manipulated into staying in an abusive relationship. Is stealing 5k from your boyfriends safe realistic? I think that is pretty unusual.
@@Thenandagainvery unusual.
@@Thenandagainagreed. This being realistic is sad to hear.
Hold on. You’re telling me she purposefully omitted her debt in the CSP, only added it after the man was done reviewing it? Ma’am 😭
😂
A whole mess😢
Wow, she straight up stole from him. I was devastated when my high school friend stole money from me; I can't imagine the pain, violation, and breach of trust from a lover. I hope Matt gets individual therapy and recognizes his worth.
Same. And it was $300.
Am I the only person who thinks this probably isn't her first time? 5k is a felony amount of money to steal.
She didn’t borrow $100 and forget to pay it back. She stole $5000 cash from his SAFE. She wasn’t even working at the time so how could she say that she could put it back before he found out. Complete deceit. She said twice that she wanted to pay him back which is only right. But, if she really felt sorry, she wouldn’t be spending almost $1000 out to eat and $700 in clothes PER MONTH. I hope she gets some fire under her but I don’t see it from these follow ups.
Why wouldn't her first priority be to pay back the 5k?
@@dkayok Exactly. Her actions speak volumes. If she was really sorry, paying it back would have been her top priority.
@aprilstiek7430 she's not sorry. She just got caught is all. She needs to go return some of the stuff that she bought recently and hand him the money to prove.Now she's not a big, fat liar.😮
She'd make them go bankrupt and lose the house if they bought one. So much financial infidelity
And total crocodile tears. He needs to move on from her or his life will end in disaster. If she can steal, lie, and manipulate, she can cheat someday too. I feel bad for this guy.
He needs individual therapy, not just couples therapy. I’m so scared for him in this relationship. She needs to do a permanent 180 before they can have a good life together.
Me too. I wonder if he was or is in an abusive relationship. His absolute fear or reluctance to upset her is concerning.
A 180 change still isn't going to solve her issues: mentally, spiritually, or financially. He needs to cut bait and run away from this situation-ship. There's no real love here to build a family upon. He'll continue to see that same crazy family behavior in the next generation.
He needs to just get out. Period. There’s no saving her.
good life together? this “relationship” is *finished*
My favourite in person studio set up so far Ramit, might have nailed it this time!
I agree, but the lampshade on the left side needs to be fixed to please my inner monk 😂
YES!!!!
Agreed, I preferred the zooms until this one
Also, that huge long microphone 🎤 in front of Remit 😮
This was a hard listen. I hope Matt sees the red flags. Even on the podcast, she was not honest. (Ramit asked if she said something when Matt discovered money was missing. She said yes. Ramit asked her what she said, and she said there was just silence.) The theft, the hiding of debt and spending, being accused of forgery (which I'm inclined to believe after the other deceitfulness she admits to), the shifting of blame to others, and acting super apologetic while not actually changing her bad behavior. It would be too much for me. If i were him, I would freeze my credit, pay off the $15k cosigned loan, and move on.
Another thing I noticed is that she said she dide everything at home, did all the cooking etc. But then later, she said she ordered a lot of ubereats. So which is it? There are a lot of inconsistencies in her story. I would not trust someone like this.
This is off base probably, but why does her stay at home mother not cook?
She's a liar.
I'm not sure what happened. But someone controlling their spouses excessive spending isn't just cosigning a large loan. Also I don't like assuming the father is in the wrong controlling the spending. If mom was hiding debt the daughter clearly picked up on her financial illiteracy not from the father. Ramit may have missed it, or knew she would become argumentative.
@@hspd This was my question as well!
This is so much different than Caleb Hammer. Glad I found this
Same. I used to watch Caleb but he is a poor communicator and doesn't ever actually ever help anyone. I prefer Ramit's approach of understanding how And why people have financial struggles.
@@Gibblesnyc I'm not a fan of Caleb's style but his follows up's show he does make a difference. Romain Faure is also excellent to watch. He's similar style to ramit but also works with singles
I've been following Caleb since near the beginning and he's now leaned into the type of content that guarantees massive views (negativity, drama, calling people out, clickbait titles, yelling/screaming, etc.) cause it ends up being a win-win since it makes Caleb an insane amount of money while also reaching a huge audience where it'll help others. With all that being said, I stopped watching Caleb for that reason. His older content was actually REALLY helpful cause it was more realistic people whereas today it's all people with so much drama. His channel is now more people laughing at or feeling bad for the guest being audited. A good alternative to Caleb is Romain Faure but his content is honest and helpful so not sure when he'll eventually get a huge following since his videos don't go viral.
@EmmereRamit been around way longer thoooo.
Ramith seems more serious. I doubt most the ppl on Caleb’s show actually do anything different after they leave. They seem so unserious
It seems like her admitting to all her wrong doings and guilt and shame verbally is a defense mechanism so others cannot blame her more. Her attitude did not appear to actually want to solve the problem with her own effort. She’s just worried her bf, her last lifeline, would leave her. The bf also needs to be more assertive and speak up about his expectations and boundaries. Stealing is never acceptable in any kind of relationship.
I noticed that too. The admissions and confessions seemed performative. My guess is that this whole thing is just part of a long running cycle where she steals, spends, begs for forgiveness, promises to change then repeat.
@@MarshalNey13It's part of the "people pleasing". She's saying what others want to hear so they'll comfort her instead of being angry at her.
@@Draggonny when I think of “people pleasing” I think of a person who can’t say no to colleagues dumping work on them or someone who has trouble setting boundaries in a relationship. To be honest HE seems more like a hopeless people pleaser than her. With her, I just see a maladaptive response to self-destructive behavior at best…at worse, manipulative crocodile tears.
IMO the antidote (if he wants to continue in this relationship) is hard boundaries. Cut up credit cards, full transparency, dramatic cuts wasteful spending, weekly check in meetings. Reach mutually shared financial goals through mutual austerity. There beauty and love in that.
@@evetong5302 what IF she chose to come clean with her debt on Ramits show bc it was public… thereby putting pressure on Matt to stay which her. He had no idea till they were both sitting in front of Ramit and would be compelled to be the “good guy” and accepting…
Their wedding vows
Him: I will never be mad with you and never let you be upset
Her: I will always let you pay for my problems, and try not to cheat on you anymore.
Ramit big cuzzo, you killed this one. You say things that are on the audience mind, tough questions. I think the guests and the audience got a lot out of this.
Should have told the guy to walk away from this red flag woman!
As a nurse myself I cannot imagine spending 250k on loans. That like med school debt! CRAZY!!
Ramit mentioned she failed out the first time so she went back...
That’s what I don’t understand either! I know going to be a doctor can be expensive, but a nurse? I wonder what school she went to or if she signed up for predatory loans.
Private nursing degrees are about 120k right now in California. My stepdaughter is going to such a school but paying more like 80k because she did prerequisites at community college.
There are a lot of predatory private nursing colleges out there and if you don't hit certain metrics they fail you and make you start from scratch and pay all over again rather than letting you claim part credit for what you have completed already. It sounds like this was the case for her. Probably paid 120k for the original program she did and then 120k again after they failed out and she had to start over. I've also seen people get crazy assignments during school requiring short term rentals, super long commutes and other things that add to cost.
I was thinking the same thing! I know the cost of higher Ed is ridiculous, but people walk out with PhDs for less than a quarter mill
He's so, SO passive. Almost to the point where I wanted to poke him and shout "wake up, say something!" I don't understand cosigning a loan for someone without having a clear picture about their finances.
She even changed the CSP after he looked at it and he just shrugs it off. Wow.
you dont understand it because you may not know anything about cptsd. these people are damaged mentally
hes a simp :p
what do you mean "I thought it was $100", did you NOT read the title of the video???
@@evan7476😂
@@evan7476that’s so dramatic and nonsensical. The point still stands: the woman stole money from her partner
What is scary is that SHE is a nurse which requires good judgment and good character but she is neither of those things.
Oh believe me a lot of really crappy people go into nursing for the money and schedule. My wife has had many down right evil coworkers. Sure made me a lot less trusting without asking questions.
well- she did not have money for renewing registration, so.... :|
Making two pancakes at home costs about 50 cents 🤦♀️ I'm floored by people draining their finances for Uber Eats.
And they take no time to make, you could even premix the mix and just pour the batter and flip when you get home. Crazy.
Seriously 😂 by the time they wait for their cold food they could have cooked and made it themselves
This is why everyone says the economy is bad... too much Uber eats and IPhones!
What does she care? She doesn't see debt as a responsibility of her. She isn't paying it back. She will likely go bankrupt and take him down with her. It is a sickness. They're both ill but I think he can probably get well...if he gets out now.
Or they can pick it up from the diner on the way home and spend 5 bucks or less
She plays the poor hopeless victim role to Ramit but really she is the VILLAIN in this whole story!!! People who feel desperate will ALWAYS do desperate things! (Stealing $5k, forging signatures, etc)
Convincing her boyfriend to co-sign a loan!
She is a victim of child abuse. BOTH of her parents abused (and continue to abuse her) and you're calling her a villian. What does that make you?
@@101289teutonicguy Are you saying she didn't know stealing and forging was wrong because of child abuse?
She's backed into a corner so needs to come up with an excuse. I can verify that almost every criminal behaves this way with tears and excuses when they are finally caught.
She can't be trusted with money is just the beginning. She can't be trusted with anything. No one steals 5k first time out of the gate. She's got some history somewhere if she were being honest.
@@101289teutonicguyhow exactly did her parents abuse her? Her dad certainly made disparaging remarks, calling her a “brokie.” But she IS BROKE. We are also only hearing her side of events. And she’s already shown herself to be a dishonest thief, just in her interactions with her saint of a boyfriend.
My guy needs to take the stolen money as a blessing and run for the hills. If he does still tackle this situation he better get a prenup and make sure her debt STAYS her debt
Won't cover debts she runs up during their marriage.
They have 0 assets. A prenup won't do much there.
This episode was great! It is a classic example that picking the right partner is so important and that just love is not enough. This woman is lucky that this guy puts up with her behavior. Sadly he has enabled her behavior and it will probably never stop in this situation.
No one is talking about a major clue. She let her insurance laps and couldn’t register her car. She couldn’t do such a basic act to maintain a lifestyle. You literally need your car to keep your job! She says she takes care of her family but she can’t even drive to work without help 🙄. She’s got deep mental issues that can’t be cleaned up over night.
Dude, now is the perfect time to run! She has no car and lives separate. Take the golden opportunity please!
Is that what actually happened or is that what she’s telling us?
Sounds like a cover for something else? Unpaid tickets or an issue she doesn’t want to say online. Who doesn’t register their CAR to get to WORK?!!
If you aren’t seriously ill or depressed, why would you let this happen?
@@Natalie_11188 who knows… there’s her side of the story and there’s the truth. Heck, could even have been a DUI
I would have been done as soon as she stole money. He's too passive.
Circling back after getting my new car registered. Went to the dmv who couldn’t help me apparently so had to go to the tax commissioners office. They then informed me that I needed an emissions test. I left, got my emissions test, then went back to tax commissioners office and finally got my car registered. Did all that in a few hours like an adult. All she had to do was register her car which you can do at a kiosk at certain grocery stores in Georgia lol.
I hate to be so forward, but anyone who tells you they are “always taking care of everyone else” within minutes of beginning a conversation are typically the most self centered people. I have learned this is a manipulation tactic (or a severe lack of self awareness). I am not half way through the episode and I can see multiple inconsistencies in her narrative. I wish this couple well, but this gentleman may want to exercise a lot of caution as he continues this relationship.
Fully agree, sadly we only learn this the hard way 😅
yes, it was too quick , and a martyr tactic, like, look at poor me taking care of everyone
It’s hard for mento even finish the episode. Soooo toxic and the guy just take it like ok ok
When Michelle said she's a people pleaser but Matt's like, "She says no to me easily" I just knew she was a red flag. She reminds me so much of my sister who *thinks* she does a lot for others but doesn't realize how much more other people do for her and accommodate her. The lack of self-awareness is alarming
Please please please google "codependent" and realize that it's different than narcissism.
Matt is such a patient person, unrealistically.
Love this in person format. I enjoy the zoom call
Too, but I love the video quality here and the in-person dynamic.
This is so refreshing. No high pitched yelling involved.
This episode is FANTASTIC! Everything about it, production quality, the guests, the issues, and the insights. Well done. I feel for Matt, but I have high hopes for them both.
I think it's ironic that she feels like a parent to her mom and sister when it seems like he's a parent to her.
I think that is exactly why she is seeking the parent dynamic from him, because her own parents neglected her in those aspects.
Exactly this. I parent my parents and sister YET I also need parenting from my husband (something I am improving). It’s a very typical dynamic to see tbh
Yeah that’s usually the exact dynamic that creates this kind of situation. Unfortunately.
He’s a grandparent
I doubt very much that her description of her doing everything in the house is accurate. I mean, her Dad has to drive her everywhere. I think she is effective at telling herself stories.
How it starts: “I feel like I have to take care of my mom and sister and be the adult.”
How it ends: “I’m 33 living with my parents and they have to drive me to work because I lost my car registration because I didn’t pay my bills like an adult.”
How it started: I spend so much money buying groceries because I have to cook for my family all of the time.
How it ends: I spend $209 a month on groceries and $906 on eating out
How it started: my dad accused me of forging his signature on a loan.
How it's going: my boyfriend is disappointed in me for stealing $5000 from him
Unreal! I don’t like to assume the worst about the guests and think most people Ramit brings on are genuinely well meaning people who made a few mistakes. But she is probably the most manipulative and deceitful guest I’ve seen on this show. Ramit is a kind person but even he had to call BS on some of her claims.
@@aas55 I agree. Ultimately, this falls on Ramit and his team for posting this episode . The guest admits to being a thief and the audience can see that there are a lot of issues with both of them. The kindest thing Ramit could have done was to not air this interview at all. The truth is, some people steal and forge signatures and try to convince the world they are the victims.
These takes sum up this episode perfectly 🤌🏽
So many nurses struggle with finances, despite being able to make really good money. I used to be one of them. I’m finally getting my $hit together.
Why do you think they struggle with money?
I have noticed that about nurses, yes.
@@GreengoldAlchemythe ability to get endless overtime makes people overspend knowing that they will pick up shifts and pay for the expense. It doesn’t always turn out well and it is killing yourself for material things. I’m going to be a nurse soon and praying I won’t fall into that trap.
@@GreengoldAlchemy I think they also have a lot of codependency issues and attract users. I know so many nurses paying for family, husbands, boyfriends. I also think they use Shopping as a distraction and stress reliever.
Mo money. Mo problems
I haven't been this upset by a show in a long time. What the hell is wrong with Matt?!? I was hoping Ramit would shake him. Her little sad girl act is played out! She is holding back a pride smile (not an embarrassment smile). There's something concerning about her demeanor, she's a master manipulator and the boyfriend is a doormat. He wants to motivate her by going to a jewelry store after she stole the engagement ring savings, he doesn't stand a chance.
* Also, nurses have access to patient's personal belongings. Her employer should review this video.
🐈
Same. I was screaming no. She is sick!
I absolutely and completely agree! Micro expressions….. Look at her long enough and you CAN see the micro expressions. You do not need to be an expert to see through her BS.
I am disappointed Ramit did not tell this man to take a break from this relationship while she works on herself. This is an abusive relationship. She's so manipulative and full of BS. Childhood trauma! She's a nurse, she would have no issues finding a therapist and work on her problems, it doesn't mean Matt should stick around.
@@neisciI agree- Ramit enabled her manipulating behaviour and I really don’t think I can trust that he is doing this show to help people now. Its more about him looking good, competing with Caleb Hammer (but pretending like he’s not) and trying to act like a psychologist when he doesn’t have the training which is dangerous. He did nothing to acknowledge or call out her terrible behaviour, and he did nothing to help the situation. This woman is mean and selfish. I don’t believe at all that her dad is the horrible person she’s made him out to be. She wants people to feel sorry for her so that she can keep using them. Ive been listening to Ramit’s podcast since the beginning but I think this was the nail in the coffin for me. He’s given terrible guidance on so many of his episodes over the last year and is nothing like how he was in the beginning.
BROTHER YOU GOTTA LEAVE HER
Love the new setting and increased production value!
A bit hectic 😅
She stole $5k from him and has the audacity to ask for a ring. Hell no
I am a nurse and was like this before. I snapped on my debt when i worked 2 jobs and still had no savings. I finally stopped spending and started working nonstop. She has a huge shovel. She can pay it off in 2 to 3 yrs. Again she has to realize to get mad with her debt and tackle it immediately.
Why do nurses spend big time?
@@davidbernalpianistastress. Few jobs are as physically, emotionally, and mentally taxing all at once. Spending is a cheap dopamine fix, I suppose
@@davidbernalpianistanot all nurses spend big time. I think money philosophy plays a role. I’m a nurse and don’t struggle financially.
Financial mindsets are shaped by pur experiences, environment, etc. But they are not permanent, its something you can change. I save but i dont save for the sake of money. I spend some the money i earn to travel and do the things i like. Why. Because one day i will be in that bed sick. And although i am saving to prptect my old age, i dont want to save for the sake of having tons of money so people can say i am wealthy. I save so i can do wjat i want so that when i get to that bed, i have as little regrets of living
55:05 she's making him be her dad. Its almost like she wants him to punish her 🤔
Oh my. I don’t believe her. She stole from her boyfriend but you don’t think she is lying about the loans? Also, she did not spend $250,000 on her education that money also had to supporting her room/board, and lifestyle. Being a victim works for her. Very manipulative and it works.
yes, there was an earlier episode of Ramit's where someone with a large student load admitted that they used studend loan to live it up. at least she was v honest about it.
Perhaps I'm just jaded, but I instantly start doubting a person if their immediate reaction to tough questions is crying. More often than not, it's an emotional manipulation tactic.
That's the manipulation.
I like how you show the csp figures at the outset. Thank you.
Me too! Not only to give us more context, but also if we’re looking specifically for someone in a similar situation to us - or ready to watch the mega millionaires lol
This episode was so difficult. There’s so much going on and I hope they find a way to move forward. I kept getting distracted though by how nice this set is!! I want to live there, unironically.
I know! I love the swivel chairs they’re sitting on.
What a depressing episode and sorry but I don’t see her changing, if he was my son I would advise/beg him to end this relationship.
Regarding the “forged” signature…the signature is irrelevant. It’s HER loan. A co-signer is for the bank to go after if she defaults. But having your dad co-sign doesn’t mean he’s morally responsible to pay for you. She’s confusing a co-signer with a parent plus loan.
Yes! Co-signer is a back-up for the lender. Doesn’t mean THEY owe it, the main borrower owes it. Not the co-signer. But lenders will go after him because she isn’t paying it
The father is legally responsible and the company will go after him if she does not pay. Also, until it is paid it can impact his financial status such as going for another loan.
Exactly! Seems like she is thinking that he should help her repay?
If she defaults or pays her Bills late , doesn’t that also affect the Dad’s Credit Ratings ?
If she defaults they'll go after him. He's still on the hook. I think she did forged his signature. She's do deceitful and manipulative. I wouldn't put past her.
Last comment at the end of the episode "I think I may take her to a jewelry store so she can get motivated" he is going to be kicking himself in 15 years when he realizes how much of a doormat he is being. Oof.
- Signed, A recovering doormat
THIS 😂
Relationships take experience as well. He needs to toughen up! I’m pretty passive in relationships especially bc my job is demanding. Over time, I have learned to draw lines
Are we sure she didn't forge her dad's signature? I mean she STOLE from her boyfriend... Lied to his face about filling out the CSP. Her dad said "do what you need to do" which to her meant sign my name... I don't know, I'm HIGHLY suspicious.
Boyfriend needs to stop ignoring all these red flags. She's a liar with crocodile tears. I mean look at her body language... The pouty face when she has to have an adult conversation. Ugh. Do not marry her, please. She's not going to change.
💯 agree! She is a walking red flag and he needs to stop being a doormat!
If she would steal from her boyfriend who she claims to love, then she's not above stealing from her dad who she doesn't even like.
It's even more sus when she has 250k in debt, and apparently had to sign multiple times for different sums, and her dad supposedly doesn't remember any of those times? Ma'am, come on.
She never specifically said that HE signed the loan. She totally lying.
I sure hope these two don’t have a wedding for 75k next year.
The divorce will only be faster if they spend that much on the wedding
@@Playingwithproxies She will take him for every single penny because Matt will never protect himself or his assets. He needs help but I think he can be saved, from his self-destruction. She is sick.
note: i haven’t finished the video.
“she says no to me all the time.” with her family she doesn’t set boundaries and gets used for money and domestic labor. her fiancé makes her feel safe and comfortable. but what they’ve done is reverse the dynamic where she uses him and he struggles to set boundaries (why she stole from him). even when you love people you should be able to say no.
i bet that when she first moved out from her family she felt free. free time, energy, and money. she didn’t have to say no over and over in daily interactions bc saying no to living with them is one decision.
i think her fiancé (maybe subconsciously) wanted them to live with their families again bc she was stressing him out the same way. he doesn’t have to learn how to set real boundaries regularly with her if she doesn’t live with him. i think the $1200 they save making six figures is just the excuse.
Agreed, seems like “saving money by moving back with our parents” was his way to getting out from under her a bit.
Side note but I really liked the intro and filming style this episode! Love that you try different styles and are receptive to audience input :)
“Do you trust her?” “Like if I had a safe? No”. 😂
Matt needs to show this to his parents. I have little doubt they would tell him to run.
Hearing her shows me how I am not as compassionate with myself. Like others I find myself judging her very harshly to what seems like a totally preventable situation. And as hard as I am on her, and though my situation is better, I also judge myself for not being where I’d like to be. Thank you for helping me notice and try to be better for my own peace.
Guilting yourself won't help you to get where you want to be. It leads to the kind of self-destructive, self-soothing behaviour that this woman is exhibiting. Don't look back unless it's to congratulate yourself on how far you've come. Look forwards and make a plan on how you will get to where you want to be. The lost time and missed opportunities are gone. You can't fix them. Focus on what you can do today, tomorrow, and every month from now.
If love alone was enough to create a lifetime of happiness the divorce rates wouldn’t be so high; unfortunately, all these things matter too. I have empathy for her dad, working so hard to take care of a family and bailing mom out of credit card debt for Macy’s which isn’t a store of necessity. It actually doesn’t sound like the dad consented to those loans, and being called spoiled or broke isn’t the worst thing that most of us have heard. Maybe they were spoiled and maybe she actually is broke? But to steal $5000 from your boyfriend is mind blowing, especially when you make more money, but with that he remains quiet because he doesn’t want there to be a fight which means he also can’t have healthy communication and conflict with her. Regardless, I wish them both the best, individually or together.
The audio quality of in-person is so much better! A few previous episodes with cheap computer microphones was so hard to listen to. Nice work guys.
Great episode Ramit! Big thanks to Michelle for being so vulnerable-I think what she showcased is a very relatable example of the impact that shame can have on our finances.
Great work Ramit working on getting this couple to identify habits that don’t serve them and moving them towards an actionable plan for change.
You got this Michelle-we’re rooting for you!
Probably one of the best episodes on the podcast. The last favorite one was the chick who said she'd rather have hardwood floors than her wedding.
Stealing $5000 from your partner and still having the audacity to bring up "why aren't we engaged yet" is wild. It is theft. It is a breach of trust. It is wrong, yet she doesn't seem to let it phase her as she continues to rack up debt.
I Remember that Episode! The Hardwood Floors! 😂
So we’re just going to accept at face value that the dad, who is apparently very strategic and good with money, blindly co-signed on a loan from a woman who is a self admitted thief and liar?
Forging a signature is more inline with her existing behavior. She resented her father’s control over their family, what better way to get back at him than to effectively steal from him while burying him in debt and controlling him.
We don’t know what actually happened, it could be as she says, but she has zero credibility.
You now have to always wonder if she’s telling the truth, not an ingredient that you want to bake into a marriage.
faaacts
Glad to know I am not the only one who was suspecting signature forgery.
She is so full of crap.. "i dont feel worthy... im a people pleaser.... " if she steals she is self entitled.
I think he enables her bad behavior. I think he needs to leave her and let her hit rock bottom so she is motivated to rebuild her life. She needs a stronger more supportive partner that holds her accountable.
He’s a push over… unfortunately he’s a source of income for her bad behavior.
Yes and he needs to not be codependent and set boundaries
err, Im extremely hesitant to believe her story about not forging her father's signature on those student loans. She has a long history of hiding the truth from those around her out of embarrassment. Ramit, I would be extremely skeptical about her story. She needs lots and lots of mental help about her habits. More than what you can provide in your money session. Only way she can make her relationship work without him just giving up out of frustration and anger.
Thank you for highlighting this as I know sometimes I get accused of seeing the worst in folks. Her whole body language gave it away and Ramit saying more than once that why would her father accuse her of this, felt as he too was having trouble comprehend this circumstances.
I think the signature is largely irrelevant - it’s HER loan. A co-signer is for the bank, to go after if she defaults. Having a co-signer doesn’t mean her dad is morally responsible for the loan. This is just a narrative she’s concocted for herself to blame her lifetime of debt on
there are people who lie, and then there are liars, and she is a straight up liar.
Yeah when I was listening something felt off to me about this story. I do think she came from an abusive and neglectful household, but something told me she was lying in my gut. Idk if it was how her voice changed or what and now seeing the comments confirm it. It wasn’t even her stealing the money that made me feel that, it was a very casual and vague story.
@@mrs.quills7061 You have to resign for loans every year. You don't take it all out at once. So the dad doesn't remember signing at least 4 different times for the loans. I call BS. Also, who doesn't quality for ANY government loans. They will give you SOMETHING. Fill out a FASFA.
I do not understand how shopping and spending money helps someone escape the fact that they do not have money. It would give me anxiety to unnecessarily buy things when I am already stressed about bills and money.
I don’t understand how someone can shop so much they spend “x” number a month as a set budget. Seems so odd to me. Are people getting new clothes every month?
Quick dopamine hit, problem is they're always chasing it and can never finish
Credit cards let you disconnect the things you buy from how much money you actually have at the time. Makes it easier to spend more.
It’s a momentary dopamine hit. It’s a vicious circle.
Yes like omg how can you ignore.
I think it’s surprising that she is shocked someone would question her character after she admitted basically stealing 5k from the love of her life.
I don't believe her on how she painted her father's character. I wish her father was here to clarify things. Somehow, I feel she's lying or at least hiding some important details.
I see a lot of people so focused on saving the relationship, they don't stop to ask if the relationship is actually healthy and if they're their most healthiest version in it. I say this for Michelle as much as Matt. If she could let go of the idea of staying together at all costs, she could be honest with him and let the chips fall where they may. This would enable her to be a more complete and happy individual and own her problems instead of avoiding them. The relationship would also have a better chance at survival. But even if it failed, she'd still be better off than she is now as she would be living her honest self.
Matt is also so desperate to hold on that he's willing to bury his head in the sand. He's neither willing to let the relationship go nor commit to it fully (don't blame him). I'm not saying they need to break up, but they need to realize breaking up isn't the worst outcome. Them living this halfway life with all these secrets is a far worse outcome than being single. I'm really worried about Matt. He's very vulnerable to being taken advantage of. I'm glad he's at least not taken on her debt (yet).
They have to heal separately before they get back together, if they ever do. Matt is too passive for everything that is doing around him.
He didn’t react angrily enough for me after she stole from him and kept her finances from him. It’s also terrible dynamics for him to keep enabling her without any consequences. He deserves better, someone who wouldn’t steal and lie to him but for that he would need a back bone.
"Did you say anything?"
"Yeah"
"What did you say?"
"There was a lot of silence"
Oooookay
i struggled with talking finances w my partner early in our relationship, i was going into debt bc i didn’t want him to know (shame) or feel like he had to help me (pride/shame). i made those decisions internally but the whole time he was willing to do anything for me if i’d just TALKED TO HIM HONESTLY. it’s been years since and we’re completely open communication wise, and wouldn’t have made it through better people otherwise.
i definitely understand why money is one of the biggest relationship killers 😅
21:47 thanks for the reminder Ramit, I should go to sleep. Will finish this in the morning
My wife (both of us are RN's) and we had similar issues when we were younger. My wife is very frugal and can find a good deal on anything we are needing however. She just never knew how to follow a budget. I took over the budget and we began investing and saving. We talked about finances for both of us, and paid off any outstanding debt which ended up being $35k paid off. Thirty years later we are on track to retire, house paid off, and are debt free other than a car loan about every 10 years. We definitely know how to work together now that we have systems in place.
I'm also a nurse (but in grad school) and will owe around $200k as well.
I let my current boyfriend know this is what I'll bring to the table, so that he's fully prepared. When I asked him how he felt about that he said he wasn't worried because he knows I'll pay it off quickly.
And he's write. I have an entire excel spreadsheet with a 24 month repayment plan. I plan on working OT or getting a second job.
She’s extraordinarily manipulative. Stealing is a very antisocial behavior.
She stole from him. How does it work that he's still in this relationship? If or when she becomes his wife she has even more access to his resources. She needs deep therapy and a fiduciary.
The new format is awesome. Great job Ramit
Matt working in finance was a huge shock 😮
The phrase 'working in finance' is expansively vague.
Nobody’s coming to save you is the best statement yet! She is in denial and no plan on how to change keep blaming and no action or even a sense of willingness to change and make a difference 🤦♀️, it’s like she is waiting for someone to spoon feed her every step of the way on what do to 🤦♀️
Her Dining Out / Uber Eats category is $960/mo yet she says she is always the one to buy groceries and cook for her mom and sister yet that category is only $209/mo. Confused!
She knows the words people want to hear about shame BUT she doesn't feel the words.
The $750 a month for clothes….as a nurse? How many sets of scrubs does she need…some hospitals provide your scrubs, you just turn the soiled ones in, get clean ones, all on the honor system.
She aint buyinh scrubs…
Buying the latest jeans and sweaters not work scrubs
If I was spending that much every month on clothes that would mean I'd be wearing brand new clothes every day and only repeating my shoes. So either she refuses to do laundry and bins her clothes every night before bed or she's buying designer clothes that she barely gets a chance to wear outside of work.
I’m a nurse. How the F did she spend 250k on becoming a nurse? Even with a bachelors and masters you can do that for less then 100k.
You don't. She's lying.
If she went to a private school, it’s about 60k a year over 4 years plus room and board expenses.
“She’s always asking about a ring” and then she steals the money!
This man should RUN.
So she essentially admitted to committing a felony, and all he says is "I'm disappointed"?? They both need to see therapists, and he should press charges, she's not just irresponsible, she is a thief.
He also has proof right here of her crime.
This guy is going to let himself be robbed blind. He's not safe with her in the home. But she's pretty so he'll likely lose more.
I don't say this lightly - but is anyone else not buying all her self deprecation and weepiness, and the "i can't say no because I care too much"? I worry that she has become really good at convincing people to feels sorry for her...early con artist vibes.
She wants us to think that she didn’t have bad enough morals to forge her dad’s signature on her student loans as a co-signer but she did have bad enough morals to steal $5,000 from her boyfriend.
Yeah no she definitely forged his signature
If hes as smart as she says he is,then he most definitely wouldn’t have co-signed a terrible loan
And for her to steal 5k from her boyfriend under the guise of ill put it back without him knowing without her having a job is crazy
She starts to cry when she has to admit what shes done
Dont cry,you weren’t crying when you took the money.Your crying cause you got caught
Agreed. Everything she said confirmed that the father is smart with money and she is reckless and sometimes very deceptive.
33 should have a bit more self control and self awareness. The stealing would be a deal breaker for me. $5k. I wouldn’t forgive $100.00. And co-signing is her way to keep him close. Saying that, I hope she wakes up.
I hate to say this, but when she discusses how disconnected her dad was and how he told her to figure school out, it sounds like she’s defending (potentially) forging his signature. One of the toughest eps of this show yet. Good luck to them both.
How is this a healthy relationship?! He lent her money for debt consolidation and has no idea where the money went. She stole from him, and herself because he wanted to use money for a ring. He needs therapy as to why this is acceptable behavior to him. The student loan is her debt. I don’t trust the narrative she is spinning about her Dad.
Her first goal is to tackle her own debt and pay off debt. His goal should be therapy to understand why he is accepting this behavior from her.
I don't know how this wasn't a major point. It's not about the $5k (but that's important too), the $15k was another chunk of money that she's apparently stolen. If it wasn't used for what she said it was for... that's effectively what happened.
As someone who has been with my now-wife for 7 years, married for 2, I'm thankful that we are both well-mannered with our money and not super materialistic. Bought a 60 dollar lightly used couch, cleaned it, steamed it 6 times, and got plenty of second hand furniture. Combined, we are doing REALLY well off, with no debt except mortgage.
Everyone can do it. Just stop getting sucked into consumer grade stuff, reduce that spending by 80%, and it will help you so much.
I tried to feel sorry for Michelle, but I just feel she is living in the victim mentality. If you can take money from your partner and not tell them. Then when it gets down to her choices, she says she doesn't know why she does it. She acts like she has no control over it. I feel like here emotions were more about having herself exposed and not actually her situation. I hope Matt can create boundaries and give Michelle time to prove that she can take control of and get out of the victim mind set. If not, this relationship will forever struggle.
@@musiclover-71 she's victim presenting, frankly it's a con artists method for garning sympathy and deflecting. Matt is a mark, not a partner.
I love to see the motivation and clarity on next steps. Each of them starting therapy sounds like a great move to help them grow individually and as a team. ❤
Love listening to these as i do my workout and start my day
I also listen to this during my workouts ^_^
@@snowjae9380 +1
She went about her schooling the wrong way, there's literally no reason to have 250k in debt for a bachelor's in nursing.
Agreed. I'm sure I can be corrected here, I am not a nurse but my Sister is. She went to a State University. After passing her Boards and gaining some experience, nobody cares what school you went to (different for Doctors, I know). In my State (Colorado) there are Programs right now that pay full tuition for nursing and first responders. My son is currently taking advantage of this and studying to be a Paramedic. He will get an Associates Degree for free. We are paying room and board to give him the college experience.
Wow, communication about finances is so important for married couples 🙏🏽
Run far and fast if someone steals from you.
A thief?!?! To contemplate marriage and children with a person with such a lack of moral fiber is insane. I hope he develops a sense of self-preservation and makes his exit.
Dude is a doormat , if he marries her his life is over.
@@justgaming6245 Over in what sense?
This was a tough episode. Big problems and no easy solutions. I do wish Ramit had encouraged them to make at least one numbers-based decision on camera. It was weird to see the episode end with no changes to the CSP. Ramit told her to make a plan but why not start now? We see retirement calculations on here all the time; would a debt payoff calculation be too depressing to show?
I felt that too. Would have loved to see some solid calculations like normal.
I love that you're trying a new filming style to find a new visual look for Money for Couples. Offering a suggestion for production since you generally seem open to that feedback. I think your editor is using the "Enhance" tool on your audio at too high of a mix amount. It's distorting voices throughout the video. And maybe this is just a personal preference but the second camera angel should add to the video not distract and I'm finding the rapid cuts back and forth really distracting during the Ramit asides in his office. Anyway, love the show and can't wait for more!
I had a relative that ignored similar behavior. She was suppose to pay the mortgage, but instead it went to her bills, her spending. Guess who lost their home? Eyes wide open!
Saying this once more:
- any debt payments over minimums don't belong in fixed costs
- pre-tax investments should be counted somewhere in the CSP
Exactly… there’s no clue to how much someone is putting in their 401k! Even just a line with percentage going to retirement would be nice.
In the CSP version that i have, there is a line for pre-tax retirement savings and it is under the investments category... That's where i put my amount for my 401k
Agree about debt payments over the minimum, those are in my guilt free spending because my rich life is being debt free! But if I needed to, I could go back down to the minimum in a pinch, so that's all that is in my fixed costs.