One fact is, both with 12" of suspension travel, dirt bikes did not get modern tall until the 4-stroke was forced on the industry by the EPA. That was due to the head being 4" taller than a 2-stroke, but some of them made it back down to the pre-4 stroke days. The YZ250 2-stroke went the other way, and now is probably the tallest bike made. I was not going to ride it like that,--so I fixed mine. Cornering is night and day difference, also helped by lowering the bars from the modern ape hanger set up. The 80's and 90's were rational. Today is not.
1st "expert" is one. :) Martin is not expert. He is a short Pro. I knew which way he would go. :) Bottom line IMO for a MX bike, (even lower for a woods bike), if you can't touch both toes on the ground, you will corner better if you can. Good vid miss Jen.
I hate the entire stigma of "What will other people think of my bike" period. Lower it, modify it, change it, make it yours within the confines of the law. It's YOURS. It's YOUR look, YOUR feel, YOUR ride.
If it's another off road bike - it's meant to be tall. Therefore, a person who lowers it, will compromise the bike's balanced, control and handling. I've seen plenty of people who get into dirt riding at first lower their bike - only later to raise it after they realize how much better it is at the regular (correct) height. I always tell them, "if you can get one foot down - that's good enough. Off road bikes really aren't supposed to be flat-footed." As far as road bikes - that's a different ball game. Sure it's their bike, but with dirt bikes I advise people to either get a smaller model or learn how to ride it properly.
@@khaccanhle1930 If you have a dirt bike with a 38 inch tall seat, you might be able to lower it an inch and a half max with a lowering link. So, your seat height is now 36.5 inches. You still won't come close to flat footing. If you have to dab a foot down while straddling a slight dip it will be even worse. At 70 years old I'm too old to learn how to ride properly. I just want to have fun and not drop my bike any more than I have to.
@@olddirtbiker5088great reply. To me, it depends on the bike, the rider, experience level, and end us. First thing I had to do with my XS Eleven, originally my mom's. When she got it, the seat height was about an inch too high. Dad wanted to compress and weld the rear coil springs, and I said no ****ing way. Ordered a new see, and a new fork spring and seal kit, that both had a 1.5 inch lower ride height, and installed them as soon as they arrived. When she passed 6 years later, I left it at that height, and increased preload. Made it handle better, hold a line better, and launch better. More stability at low speeds, to where I could stop, Then set my left foot down. It was my usual, when she was at her shop. Handles well enough that I modded the foot brake, pegs, and shifter, when I became an above knee amputee. Got back on, dirt bike first, 650 end of that season, back on the street, and got back on my Eleven in May. Dirt bike, I wouldn't dream of lowering one. Still have my 125 and 250, factory suspension. More fun ripping flat out on a small, flickable, bike. Want a bigger one, go street, or build a scrambler. And yes, I still have goals. Used to use the Eleven for bike rodeos, and was damn good at it. My goal is to enter my first post amputation rodeo.
@@olddirtbiker5088fully agree. If you know what you are doing, lower your street or track bike, if not, go to a professional. Dirt. Just buy a smaller one.
As someone who is 188cm (6'2") i don't need to worry about it. But my wife, 157cm (5'2") does struggle. Finding bikes that she is comfortable riding is tricky. We will certainly be going down the route of lowering bikes for her. Telling someone "just deal with it" is absolutely ridiculous. Not everyone is out there trying to win races or jump massive jumps. We just want to enjoy the ride, and more importantly, for this conversation, enjoy the stop, with firmly planted feet
I'm 6'1 my ktm 1290 sar is pretty high, it is difficult to put both feet on the ground at the same time. I wouldn't lower it but it's definitly high. The seat height on mine is a bit over 35 inch.
Hey, I just want to say thank you for making a video about this subject . I'm a 5'1" dude, and I feel like I'm all alone with this subject. Please more videos for the shorter riders.
It's not just shorter riders... Everyone is built differently. I'm 6 ft tall but have a really long torso so my inseam is only 28 in. Adventure bikes seem impossibly tall
@@studiogru3649 know they get a lot of hate but some of the scooters are awesome. I have a Yamaha Morphous that I originally bought for my wife and that is frequently the first thing I jump on when I just want to take a casual ride somewhere.
I “hung up the helmet” for a while when my daughter was born. I picked up mountain biking when she was little before returning to motorcycles. One thing I learned is the importance of fit to the bike. In the cycling world, they’ll change everything. Seat post length, saddle position, stack height, stem length, bar sweep, crank length, over forking, rear linkage changes… anything to fit the bike to the rider. And this is an industry with actual frame sizes! Many bikes even have flip chips to adjust the geometry of the bike frame itself. It’s not evil or wrong. Just think it through, and make sure it works for your riding.
@@hyedefinition1080 They're WAY bigger than when I was a kid. I don't know why everyone fetishizes huge wheels. It's the same for cars. I got a new Camry with 19 inch wheels (didn't have a choice for the options I wanted). My 9 year old Cadillac CTS Vsport had 18 inch wheels. Why would I need wheels an inch bigger...for a Camry? The tiny brake disk in the huge wheel looks weird. It gets worse mileage than the 17 inch base model too.
@@hyedefinition1080 Dropper seat posts help a ton, I just built a 27.5 bike myself, and the height I have it set for good pedaling efficiency is way too tall when I need to come to a stop, so I can drop it down when stopping.
@@JCintheBCC I'm your size as well (5'10", 32" inseam). I think 29's are overkill for my skill. 27.5's are so much more flickable, get going quicker and allow my skills to grow naturally. I have a 27.5+ for better traction as well. But the market &marketing dictates the products in all industries.
I've been riding for years. I am male and 5'1" with a 25" inseam. It never ceases to be a source of frustration that the manufacturers constantly keep seat heights way up high, presumably, just to accommodate taller riders (and s*d the shorties!). I learned to ride on a DT 50, and have ridden lots of full height motorcycles. I REALLY learned how to ride when I had my Kawasaki GT550 (800mm seat height). Eventually I learned to shift my weight when I came to a stop so I was only half sitting on the bike, and half standing (if you see what I mean) but then only on tiptoe on one foot. But before then I was always breaking timing case covers on the end of the crankshaft through dropping the bike at low speeds. My last bike (hopefully there will be more) was an XJ6 Diversion (FZ6 in America) and I cut the seat down and dropped the yokes down the forks by about 10mm. Much more comfortable, but still on tiptoe. Always on tiptoe. I've never done the swapping the linkage on the rear suspension thing. I've never been able to afford it. And let's face it, really I shouldn't have to! I get the fact that taller riders need more "room" as they're physically bigger. But it's far easier for them to just get a thicker seat to sit on (a "booster cushion" dare I say it!) on a bike that's a bit too low, than for me to have to go through all the rigmarole of considering lowering kits, altering the fork settings, and cutting down seats, on bikes which needn't be so tall. And if it's too tall in the showroom, I can't test ride it to see if I like it, before I buy it, and do all the mods to lower it! And then there's all the haughty comments from taller riders when you make comments to this effect. NOT NECESSARY GUYS! I'm just trying to get people to see that if bikes were designed with shorter riders in mind, they could potentially sell more of them to the majority of people who aren't over 5'8" or so. Lower the seat sub-frames and offer two seat height options (with a meaningful difference in height, not a piddly 20mm!). Some bikes are tall because they are BIG. Like the GS BMWs - I call that size bikes "elephants". Okay, "horses for courses". I never look at those because I know they're far too big for me to hold up, on tiptoe, with pointed boots, when I come to a standstill. I need to stick to the smaller bikes. Plenty to choose from. Oh look, the Husquvarna Svartpillen. Only 400ccs. Great looking bike! Hold on, the seat height is EIGHT HUNDRED AND THIRY FIVE MILLIMETRES. A small bike with a too-tall seat height (can you hear my teeth grating????). And I'm not interested in "cruisers". I can't stand the foot forward thing which Triumph Bobber and Harleys etc all have. But I often feel as though people want to fob me off by pointing me in the direction of the apehangers and peanut tanks and suggesting I get one of those instead, just because they have a low seat height. Come on guys. Bikes have been around for AGES now. Surely the manufacturers, by now, should have worked out that if you're short, yes you can ride, but it's a total pain in the saddle to have to deal with. Either stick with the discomfort of stretching your foot down every time you stop, or go through the effort and expense of lowering. Really tedious. When the solution is simple. Just lower the rear subframe and offer two different seat thicknesses. So yes, I agree with what you say in the video. If you are short, and you want to lower your bike you should do it (although ground clearance on cornering might become a problem!). If you don't want to lower it, you can live with it, but only (in my case) if the seat height isn't any more than about 810mm. Over that height and you may not have enough leverage in your short limbs to manage the bike at stopping speeds, certainly without a lowering kit/cutdown seat/prayers etc. And don't forget that if you are short in the leg, your arms will also probably be shorter than average as well. This means that you will be leaning forward more, as your arms stretch to reach the bars. Not so good if you want a nice relaxed upright position, but find yourself in more of a racing crouch for some strange reason. Just some thoughts. WEAR EAR PLUGS! (you don't want tinnitus, believe me)
I could not have said this better! You hit the nail on the head! I'm so tired of seat heights being so dang high! I'm with you, I don't like cruisers and I resent the way manufacturers have pushed them on us shorter riders. They feel like as long as they offer something with a 28 inch seat height, every other bike can be tall. It's kinda like they're saying, "Look, we gave you this cruiser over here. That's for you. Now leave all the other bikes alone because you can't ride them." Of course you CAN ride them, but it's not comfortable. It's uncomfortable backing up in a parking lot on tip toe or trying to hold the bike up at a long traffic light. I hope the manufacturers start making bikes with lower seat heights.
The grass is always greener. It's not easier for tall riders to adapt for their height. So I'm not only white but I'm 6' tall. I'm to blame for ruining the world. I still have hair too. I'm a bad man
As a shorter rider with a 28” inseam, this was an issue I was definitely having. While I was taught to just lean and tip toe with one foot, there were still a number of situations where I felt not in control without able to get both feet on the ground. I currently ride a Kawasaki Z650, it’s a naked midweight bike that’s about the size of a 300. Stock the seat was 30” (already about an inch lower than average) and then I added Progressive Springs front and rear. This maintains the bikes geometry, but adds another 1.5” drop. I strongly suggest shorter riders look into both, it’s a great set up!
Oh yes I picked this bike up specifically cause I didn't have to lower it. Its basically the only bike with enough power for me that I don't have to lower. Still want to upgrade to the z900 but will have to lower that one for sure
Another point worth making RE: the geometry concern: Rider weight and suspension sag also change geometry. A 36” WR250R isn’t 36” with a 6-foot 200 lbs rider on it. And with a 5’ 6” rider that weighs 140 lbs., the bike is taller geometry than what the taller, heavier rider gets.
@@basicreviews6056 I said backyard modification because that is in truth what most people will do. I specified that in order to be precise and accurate, making the debate more clear. In my comment I wanted to make clear that I'm not saying proper lowering of bikes if absolutely necessary is wrong, but it should be avoided unless absolutely necessary, and that most of the time the cure is improving skills.
@@pistonburner6448and what bike would you practice on? even riding schools use lower bikes to teach students, because being able to place both feet on the ground makes them feel more confident. No bike is perfect from the factory, some dealership even offers lowering kit for brand new bikes.
@@basicreviews6056 Practice on the bike you intend to ride. Maybe buy a pit bike or Monkey or something if you really feel you need to, but I'm not a fan of buying "training bikes" (for a short period of time) except for those who are serious about constantly training on them for years. I do strongly support having a training bike to use forever to keep practicing, but I know that's now what most people buy them for and that's just an unnecessary expense in those cases. You don't need to "feel confident" when practicing.
Thank you for making this video! I struggled with the stigma of lowering my Tiger but I’ve realized I judge myself more than anyone else does. Nice to see an effort being made to correct this. It’s all about riding your own ride at the end of the day.
Almost all the damage done to my 300 KTM happened from stall and fall . Not being able to get a toe down and dab can be expensive (rads) and exhausting (picking the bike up). Shortening the bike has added years to my ride life . 72 and counting.
Regarding adjustability: my sv650 was lowered with different links and in the triple clamp when I bought it. It drove just fine. But the PO gave me the original links and after scraping the pegs a few times I decided to bring the bike back to its original height. Easy job. I wouldn’t judge people for doing what is good for their comfort and safety. Conversely: I have raised my cruiser beyond its original height. I mostly ride it two-up, with luggage, and I was frequently bottoming out front and rear suspension. That meant beefier springs and the rear shocks are 3/4” longer than stock. Both front and rear came up about the same amount and the bike handles the same. However, I did the front first, and only did the rear a few weeks later. With a taller front the handling was more sluggish. Not unsafe by any stretch but it did handle like a different bike. Once the rear was up as well, it handled like original. With better ground clearance I can lean this thing more now, without scraping metal parts :) and the overall comfort is greatly improved.
Bought a ZH2 and found it to be top heavy and just not as as confidence inspiring as my R9T so I picked up lowering links. This gave a 1” lower seat and has been the best mod I’ve made so far and I'm 5' 8" 29" inseam.
That's awesome man, but did you lower the front Forks by an inch as well? That's what they were talking about when lowering a bike, but balanced. Ride safe!
Thanks Jen, great video. Lowering a motorcycle is fine if that’s what you need but it’s not just as simple as installing lowering links in the rear as some people seem to think. If a manufacturer offers a kit go with that option. Or consult a suspension specialist.
Being 5'7" and having dropped a buddy's bike because my legs were swinging in the air when I tried to stop (admittedly on an angled driveway where there was extra distance between the ground and my feet) I'd almost decided that dual sports and proper ADV's weren't for me (though I did sit on an exceptionally low R1250GS once.) This video is helping me rethink that.
I'm 5'6 and ride a lowered R1250GS with lowered seat and I manage ok. I'm definitely on the balls of my feet at stop lights and one footing it on heavy camber roads, but it is dooable.
I'm 72 year old and been riding sense I was 15. There are so many great bikes on the market that I no longer feel comfortable just strattling in the show room. If lowering the bike properly means I'm able to own what I want and extend the sport I love, so be it! Yes age is a factor but, control of the bike at all levels is just common sense.
I'm in the middle on this one. I'm not very tall, 5'6" with a 30" inseam, so I've been there. A shorter bike gives you confidence, let's your fears have a backstop, so you don't completely shut down and loose your cool. At the same time though, its like playing a video game on easy mode, you can enjoy it, but you have to turn up the difficulty and leave your comfort zone to grow as a rider. My bike is tall for me, and I've stuck with it, and because of it, my abilities have grown massively in the past couple years. I'm still a Muppet, but looking at where I started, vs where I have come too, there's no question that sticking to hard mode was the right choice. Remember, nothing that's worth doing in life is easy.
I would agree in some ways and disagree in others. What I agree with is that yeah you can fight it out and slowly get yourself to work with what you got. but at the same time, have you ever heard the saying work smarter not harder? all bikes and people that ride them are independent individuals, if there is a way to get the edge quicker, get more comfortable faster then why wouldn't people do that? if lowering it to help them build confidence quickly, that means they are going to learn the bike multiple times faster and can bring the bike back to stock. mechanically these bikes are made to be tinkered with and tuned to yourself for yourself. If you were tasked with digging through the mountain to get to the other side, do you pick a pick axe or a tunneling excavator? nothing that's worth doing in life is easy is very subjective. because smaller things that you can do more easily and quickly of that builds into something larger and just as rewarding as something you fought hard for. there is never a black and white side my friend. I do commend people who stick with it and fight hard for it because theyre able to and willingly commit to, but that is never the case for every individual because as stated before, everyone is an individual.
I lowered my WR250r, but I needed to use some trigonometry to figure out how far to slide up the forks to keep the front in proportion to the rear. Like Jen said, you gotta do it right!
Usually about half, if you drop the rear 20mm raise the forks 10mm. That rule of thumb is usually fairly accurate. I just lowered my tenere700 18mm at the rear and 9mm through the forks and it’s still handling brilliant. In fairness I gave the preload a couple of turns on the rear too
@@mbal4052 What method do you use to lower it? I installed an OEM preload adjuster in my KTM 690 SMCR and only lowered a tiny bit, nothing drastic. Good thing is I can adjust the height with ease.
I'm 6'2' tall with a 34 inch inseam. I lowered my bike, I sold my F850GSA and bought a KTM890 Adventure /S, and even for a tall person like me those couple of inches of seat height made all the difference in the world. Why struggle, ride a bike that fits.
I'M 5'6" and bout a T7, which I love, I had to lower it so I could even reach the ground with tip toe of both feet. Seems every bike I've had since I was a kid I have always had issues with being able to touch the ground so it's nothing new. I did ensure that both front and rear were lowered same amount so my geometry is as it should be. Seems those who say you shouldn't lower your bike are usually those who are taller and don't know what a pain and confidence killer it is... Thanks for the video!
I lowered my KTM 690 cuz dabbing or just parking the bike was a huge challenge for a short leg guy like me! After 9k miles, numerous trips, I still find I ride just fine.
I'm 6'2" still haven't mounted a motorcylce I can't touch both feet but when the ground isn't even on both sides sometimes I wish I had some knee bend too! Jen for President!
I would have liked to have heard what the actual effects of the most common lowering mods is on a motorcycle. Ie changing the shock linkage and dropping the forks through the triples. Your professional rider focused on static mods (lowering seat & raising footpegs) while the suspension professional unsurprisingly advocated internally modifying the suspension
I lowered my '21 Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 40mm (1.5 inches) with AF1 lowering link & adjusting the forks the same amount, I tour with luggage & also Drag Race it which helps in both cases. Although my Track bike is a '14 Aprilia Tuono V4 1000 I didn't lower it as once on and rolling I ain't putting a foot down lol
Finally some good video to stop those (popular) RUclipsrs who cannot stop saying "Dont lower your bike" and try so hard to demonstrate their toeing skills. I have lowered all 3 bikes of mine (MT07, XSR700, Ninja650) with a good lowering kit and lowered kickstand from USA, never once I regret such decision. In fact, if it were not for the T-Rex lowering kit, I would not even be able to ride a bigger CC motorcycle and I will keep buying the kit for my future bikes.
I would love to put those "know not much" you tubers who say "never lower your bike", on a stock YZ250 2-stroke, so I can take the inside line off camber and blow them out of the berm they have to use. :)
I'm sure you know that when I got my XR650L in 93 (first year) it had 12" of travel at both ends. So 2brothers racing had a link for the rear shock linkage that lowered the rear end down 15mm. So I also lowered the front forks in the triple clamps the same because you can't do one without the other. And that helps in the tight woods sections.
Spot on on the topic of lowering, just two more things to consider first: 1) take a course and actually practice with your bike to build confidence 2) If you lack confidence, question whether you bought the right bike, or just got sold on what is praised as good Bonus) Practice on light bikes to build confidence [forces you to get rid of the "waddeling"] There is a difference between what people actually need and what people think they need. Manufacturers tend to cater to the latter, in which case mods are needed.
So we cannot modify our bikes? If I buy a Harley and decide taller handle bars would be more comfortable for me do I have to question whether or not I bought the right bike? If you want a certain bike but need to make the bars taller or the shocks an inch lower or change from mid pegs to forward pegs then I say go ahead and buy the bike you want and then modify it however you feel like to end up with exactly what you desire in a bike. It's silly to tell people to buy a bike and just practice using it like it is stock so that you can deal with it instead of making a modification. So when you see a Harley guy in the hell's angles buy a bike and change the handle bars or add a sissy bar do you walk up to him and say "There is a difference between what you actually need and what you think you need so you need to question whether or not you bought the right bike". I doubt it.
@@jlrutube1312 The topic is "lowering your bike", not change handlebars. I have no idea who or what you are arguing against. Harleys are generally low enough (afaik) so I really do not see the connection here. For clarity sake: changing your bike to make it more comfy for your style of riding is a good idea, and I certainly will not complain about quality of life changes. I began with agreeing with the video, which concludes that lowering is fine, just added that skill is another point, and that gaining skill takes practice, and how one could go about it. From personal experience: my wife started with waddeling a lot on here bike. On mine she couldn't, so she had to get used not to waddle, but instead to handle the bike properly and to learn to balance it. She then stopped waddeling on hers as well, and felt much more comfy. Lowering is not the only option, starting on a light, tall bike and learning basics is however beneficial, especially for new riders. Just take a course and have fun. I think with "what you need/want" I meant big adventure bikes, which are simply bulky and not easy to handle. They are advertised as offering a lot, but not everyone needs this much and many drivers would be more happy with a smaller dual sport. But this is another topic entirely. Now I will go and enjoy my 17th season on a tall but light single cylinder :)
@@jlrutube1312 Glad I could clarify, and that it is appreciated. I hope you are greeting back to someone on an Enduro or naked bike, around here most Harley drivers don't. Not that I mind, but I think this "divide" is sort of hilarious. On a parking lot, with helmets down, the conversations are generally relaxed and enjoyable though. Some cruisers are real beauties, certainly more than my current KTM... but I choose my bike according to what feels right for me, not for the looks. If you want to get some understanding for what I meant with big bikes and big advertisement, just look for videos like "Adventure Motorcycles are a SCAM". There is quite some backlash against those, rightfully I think. Great weekend to all riders \m/
Thanks so much. I'm 70yo, have a 28 inch inseam and weigh too much. I recently started having some serious knee trouble but not enough for a replacement. I haven't ridden in months due to worries that I might not be able to hold up my motorcycle. I have a set of Matisse links, but I was not sure about putting them on. You just convinced me. thanks.
The heavier the bike , the more a too tall seat affects confidence and real world safety. A LEARNER rider should never be anywhere near a road on a bike they cannot at least half flat foot with both feet.
As a suspension tech I have lowered many dirt bikes and street bike for vertically challanged riders. 100% the benefits outweigh the loss of travel, and reversibility is always an option.
Do you call 5'9" vertically challenged? It is average height for Americans, and my 2019 YZ250 2-stroke was stupid tall. I see a lot of kids with terrible corner speed in their go-pro vids. We were never that slow in the 80's. OK, 1 guy was. :)
Who cares what other people think. If you feel safer, more comfortable and better overall then do whatever you need to your bike. I lowered my 690 Enduro and it's amazing now. That 35ishmm made all the difference. I slammed down hard on the bash plate off a jump but I'm not taking the kouba link off. I'm perfectly happy with it. And the geometry is still fine regardless of what the so called "experts" say.
Thank you for making this video. I'm 5'7" and ride a Triumph Scrambler 1200XC. I can technically touch the ground with both feet but I don't feel secure all the time at stoplights or, especially, offroad. I've been debating if I should install the TEC lowering springs but I'm getting mixed feedback from people about what it will do to the geometry and handling of the bike. It was GREAT to hear the straight answers from your experts. I think those springs are now calling my name.
As a 6'1" rider, I have no trouble getting on any bike. I've dirt and street bikes for about 30 years now. My 5' wife finally agreed to get a bike. First thing I did was lower it so she'd be comfortable. Fuck the stigma, ride comfortable, forget what anyone ekse has to say about it. TBH though, I didn't even know there was a stigma with lowering bikes. I guess it's because none of the people I've rode with over the years have been on the shorter side.
Great video. I am 5’7 with a 29 inch inseam. Have a DR650 in Pakistan which is lowered to my comfort levels and just bought the Transalp here in the US which I feel comfortable in already because of the sag in the suspension. I ride for fun, have limitations in my riding ability and feel perfectly fine on my lowered bikes. The message of the video is great, it’s ok to make the bike fit to your comfort levels and go ride have fun. The rest is just noise.
I raised my 2010 FZ1 and it’s been great. I’m 5’ 11” but I hate flat footing bikes. Lifting it has made it so much more comfortable and it leans deeper
I’m 5’7” with a 30” inseam, and I have short legs. I bought a ‘23 Thruxton RS last fall: the bike has a 31.8” seat height. Before I bought it, I had always owned Harleys. Low Harleys. As in Sportster Forty-Eights and Softails. I wasn’t able to ride the RS right away due to weather, so I just practiced sitting on it and moving it around in my driveway. I could get the tips of my toes down, but nowhere near flat footing it. I thought long and hard about lowering it, but it’s not something I felt comfortable with doing myself, and my options with local custom shops is almost nonexistent. At the advice of an online Triumph forum, I ended up getting a pair of thick-soled riding boots (Merlin Bandits) and putting 3mm insoles in them. I can almost flat foot the bike now.
I dropped my FJR1300 15mm (millimeters) at the shock linkage in the rear and dropped the front forks by 22mm, I no longer struggle reversing or slipping on gravel, and I've sharpened the rake just right for me. Tuning the bike to myself is a must, no bike is made perfect for you from the factory. One crucial point from this video: If you only raise or lower one or the other end, understand that this changes the rake and geometry of the bike very noticeably.
Great vid. We need more Jen content. My missus Jen, is thinking about doing her CBT. We live in the UK. How about some specific videos highlighting their biking needs?
Yep, I agree 100 percent. If you need to lower your bike to feel safer and have more confidence then do it. Your the one that is riding it so who cares what others say or think. I always put a lowerlink on my bikes if possible and adjust the front forks to match.
I have lowered both my previous bike, a Kawasaki Versys 650 and my present bike, a Kawasaki Concours 14. I am 5' - 9" and, having ridden bikes for about 60 years, know that it is vital to be able to "flat foot" when stopped to maintain firm control of the mass of the bike. The only issue I ever had was that the Concours, which had the center stand removed and aftermarket 4 in to 2 exhaust system installed, scraped once when entering a gas station driveway. I later discovered that the mechanic that installed the new exhaust system had oriented the joint band clamps so the projecting part, the screw and nut, was on the bottom. That alone reduced clearance by about half an inch. Once I loosened and rotated the clamps to a position of maximum clearance I haven't had any further problems.
This video came in right time for me, I'm 5.5 and i needed a bike that sporty and tourer but im in budget so i can't choose the one i want, and the city that im living in which is Istanbul is full of traffic and we sometimes have to ride it slow pass between cars, that means i have to be confident putting my feet to the ground when needed. Now i have to find out which bike is suits to lower and how. Thx rev.
Those who think lowering dirt bikes is for beginners obviously haven’t ridden hard enduro. On my 2022 Beta 300 I have a lowering link (Kobel), Seat Concepts wide and low seat and forks high in the triple clamp which allows me (28 inch inseam) to tippy toe my Alpinestars. Martin and Carmichael both cut and welded their subframe, seat foam etc. Reduced ground clearance can be a problem though. Bikes are made to customize to the individual.
Thanks, Jen and Revzilla. I've raced my entire life, motocross, desert, and finally road racing. Recently bought a 2022 Ducati Multistrada V4S and with the weight and higher seat I just didn't feel as comfortable in some situations. Thankfully Ducati makes a lowering kit specific to the MSV4, shock, and fork springs, and a side stand. Geometry ratios remain the same as does the performance of the magic Skyhook suspension. I have a colleague who said "I'd never lower a bike" and that's fine. When I buy a home, car, or motorcycle, for someone OTHER THAN ME then I'll ask about their view. But it's my bike, so I do what I want. F what others think.
I'm 5'5 and got a new Z400. I am just short of flat footing both legs. I put 1 foot flat down at a stop and do fine. I've done 1200 miles in the 3 weeks I've had it. Good fun bike, not incredibly fast but better bargain than a 650 that cost 3 to 4k more. I did find, however, the ninja 650 fit me even better. But that price wasn't worth it.
I'm 5'6" with a 29" inseam. My ride is a 2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT. This is a pretty tall bike. I looked like a ballerina on it with just my tippy toes touching on both sides. Two big issues arose from this. 1) it was really dicey when my wife would mount the pillion seat and 2) I really couldn't paddle walk the bike backward when I needed to. I installed a 15mm dog bone lowering kit and raised the forks in the triple tree the same amount. Transformative! Now I can put the balls of my feet squarely on the ground. I was concerned about ground clearance, but even when riding fast in the twisties I've never touched down. The only drawback is that it takes more effort to get the bike up on the center stand. This is the best mod to the bike I have done.
I used to ride in the 70's. I recently bought a 2024 KLX 300. It was way higher and of course I'm not as flexible at 66. I was talking to a motorcycle mechanic and he said something that made perfect sense. When the manufacturers went from a dual shock system to a mono shock system, they HAD to raise the bike for the new system to work. I am not an aggressive rider at all. I think I'm going to lower my bike just an inch or two, front and back.
Putting lowering link/dogbone in the rear and dropping the fork in the front to evenly lower the bike is the cheapest way to do it, however, there's compromise in the suspension travel because any amount that you lower the bike is the amount of less suspension travel you will get. It might not be a major issue if you ride modestly on the street, but it could become an issue for dual sport (off road) riding as bottoming out the suspension would more likely to happen. Then there's the lean factor in regards to foot peg clearance to consider too. The ideal way to lower the bike would be to replace the rear shock with shorter shock with proper damping and spring rate along with front fork progressive springs. Doing it this way will lower the bike with mitigation of suspension travel compromise. Most costly but ideal. Another option especially for lighter riders is to adjust the rear spring preload to increase the "sag" a long with "low seat".
I used to ride a low seat Tiger 800 XRX, and I had serious issues with clearance, especially while riding two up. Also, the factory recalibrated the suspensions, so it was not as comfy as the “normal” bike, and the payload was hugely lower too. Back in 2021, traded it in for a Tiger 900 GT. Main reason why I did that was to get better suspensions, thus more comfort and higher payload. The issue was touching the ground. Lowering the seat alone didn’t help much, so I changed the dog bones on the rear and lowered the front by the same amount, 2cm only (less than and inch). Didn’t notice any issues with stability or even performance. I always crank up the rear preload when traveling two-up with luggage anyways. Only minor issue refers to the side stand and (to a certain degree) the center stand, because the geometry of the bike changed , the side stand got too long and it is slightly more difficult to put the bike on the center stand, since the angle is also different (I solved this by making a small ramp using two pieces of plywood and I put the rear wheel on it, which makes it very easy to lift the bike).
I lowered my FE 250 and my 450 EXC and I am so happy about it! lowering the rear an inch or two does not make it a chopper, actually there is usually enough room to just drop the front forks a bit.
I didn't know changing the gearing changes the geometry too! Thank you Jen for discussing this topic! This is one of the questions that has kept me from deciding on choosing my next motorcycle. I started on a really tall street bike with a high center of gravity and while the riding experience was really amazing, coming to a stop was often a struggle. From there I progressed to buying a cruiser with a low center of gravity and a low seat, and it is absolutely different riding experience from the "confidence" perspective. I am now looking to buy my first enduro motorcycle and although enduros are much lighter, riding off-road and not having the certainty of touching the ground in the critical moments is something that keeps playing in my head. I am wondering about the lowering link (for instance for WR250R). Everyone (all tall people) are telling me not to do it. Obviously, the shorter riders have a different opinion. One thing is for sure - even if the bike would handle a bit worse, I wouldn't feel the difference because I am not a pro rider. :)
im brand new to riding at 59yo. i have a 2021 mt07 that i tip toe on. i bought it brand new off the dealer floor and it only has 33 miles on it. i'm not scared to ride it, its my confidence thats got me. i told my brother and my best friend that if they showed up at my house on their motorcycle, i would ride with them. i hope im making sense. i have the link to lower the back, however i dont know how to lower the front. no stunt riding, no off-road, no wheelies, i just want to ride and have fun. i'm seriously asking for advice or guudance. thanks for listening. Ride Safe Everyone.
I lowered my '21 Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 40mm (1.5 inches) with AF1 lowering link & adjusting the forks the same amount, I tour with luggage & also Drag Race it which helps in both cases. Although my Track bike is a '14 Aprilia Tuono V4 1000 I didn't lower it as once on and rolling I ain't putting a foot down lol
Lowered my XT250 just to flat foot contact. Safer stops. Safer cornering due to the lower center of gravity. Checked chain slack and spring preload as well. No regrets.
I've been thinking about lowering my new bike but never took the thought process to include reversing the process "until I become comfortable with it" because that is what I'm looking for even though I hadn't considered the after effect 👍
Didnt go into more detail. And showed mostly dirtbikes. Thats my take-away from this video! What about: footpegs? rearsets? rider triangle? subframe? Varies other things need to be throw into the mix than just "lowering" the bike.
6' 1" here.. dropping my dirt bike 3" and installing wide street 17" tires.. Super Moto. The handling is greatly improved, I only need like 4" of travel, not 8+.
Bought my first mono shock a couple of years ago (first new bike) after not riding for a long time and bought the XT250 because in part it’s lower than it’s competitors.
It’s easy to lower your bike and keep the same suspension characteristics. Yes they will change things but you lower the gravity will benefit the bike but the stroke being decreased will the suspension bump absorption. You just need to do it equally front and back. Most just to the rear. 😅
First of all, motorcycles come from the factory for an average driver, since not all of them weigh the same or measure the same. In fact, many manuals tell you how to adjust the suspension according to your weight AND MANY BIKES come with a height adjuster (usually the most expensive ones). Second, yes, modify the cycling of the bike, even as you said at the beginning, lower it evenly, but the reality at the end of the day is that we are not professionals who are going to push the bike to the limit and we are going to find ourselves with that imbalance that we generate We are ordinary motorcyclists that if we do not push the motorcycle to the limit we will not find out and as ordinary motorcyclists we need to be safe and confident on the motorcycle, the best thing to do is lower it as long as it is not extreme.
Lowering helps many people. I raced motocross in the 196o’s with 6 inch front travel and 3 inch rear travel. Bikes with small engine 2 strokes engine. Now tall 4 stroke engine and tall suspension. Crossing narrow river beds on 35 inch seats makes touching ground impossible is going slow.
I am an inch and a half shorter than my dad. Both of his feet can stand flat on the ground while sitting on my motorcycle. Just the other day I'm asking him how to lower the front (since I can't afford to buy a shorter shock right now) he discourages me, saying that it is unnecessary. But, I rode a lowered bike before I could confess having a flat foot instead of tiptoeing helps my maneuver. Having a lower bike makes me feel as one, unlike riding high ones where I feel uncomfortable when banking.
Thank you so much for this video! There is a definite trend toward negativity when it comes to lowering a motorcycle. I have a WR250R that has a factory lowering option built in, which I have taken advantage of. I do have more confidence and feel more comfortable now. And as for Jen, WOW!!! Knowledgeable and drop dead Gorgeous! RevZilla has a winner in you!!!
I’m a 5ft 7 in vet rider and fell over at the starting gate, thanks for the guy that brought me starting blocks . I’m thinking a 18 inch rear. And 20 inch front would help, if
My wife 4’10 we had to lower her sports bike we’re she feels comfortable. 2 inch rear and front drop. And shaved seat cushion 1 inch. It really helped with confidence.
I lowered the front forks in the Tubes 1" on my Yamaha FZ-07. If I have a heavy passenger I can flat foot on it. I usually have the rear spring pre-load almost to the max because I have side cases, a Top case with a luggage rack. If I stiffen the rear spring then have a light load my headlight focus is off.. Since I installed an LED bean if my headlight is adjusted for the low beam then the high beam is too high .. If I adjust it for correct low beam focus then the High Bean is off. I like the dual headlight adventure bikes that have a separate manual nob to adjust the high beam and low beam separately .
I raised my Forks back up at Tail of the Dragon I thought the changed geometry was hurting my cornering performance some. My FZ-07 was not safe to ride hard with the stock forks.. the Ohlin Cartridges are a night and day better improvement .
The whole "If you were a better X (rider or anything else), you wouldn't need X" actually means "I don't want you to have any advantage I didn't get because my ego's hanging on gatekeeping you". What if I become a better rider by being able to actually ride confidently? It's your bike, do what you need to enjoy it.
I like the way lowered bikes look and I'm not looking to set lap records at my local track, and as long as you lower the front and back by the same amount you'll be fine.
At 5'7" all adv and dirt bikes are tall and i can deal with it but I usually go with a lowered seat just because I like getting my feet more planted. It just makes traffic lights, parking lots and uneven ground and pavement way easier. Makes bikes feel lighter and more manageble. Ive lowered bikes too and I could care less if the front and rear were not exacly the same. No two bikes have the same geometry anyway so set it up as you like, not how some "youtube expert" says to.
spot on! I have ducks disease, stumpy little legs and a long body. The height trends of modern motorcycles has got me on the verge of giving up motorcycling, a life-long pastime. I got rid of a super-tenere and a klr 650 (which regret intensely) because they were so tall they became unenjoyable, with leg cramps, and the super tenere jumping on me twice, and not in a nice way. The modern trend has actually prevented me from buying motorcycles - KTM (which I love) in particular. I want a nice, relaxed, stable, low cog, UJM now, with a comfortable riding position, and a lower seat height that still doesn't sacrifice too much travel. It's just a design brief! Not too much to ask is it? Because I still want to ride bikes, but not ones that are arrogantly too tall and difficult to maneuver...
I imagine it would definitely be an issue for a short rider with a top heavy sportbike. If you tip toe it, there's a chance it might tip over at a red light and then you're stuck trying to pick it up surrounded by moving cars. I've personally had to help one rider pick up a bike in exactly this situation.
The YZ250 2-stroke at the beginning is not the average sized dirt bike, but probably the tallest made today. I can touch both feet on several of the modern 4-strokes, (granted, not set up for my weight, but neither was my YZ 2-stroke when I got it, but still at least 1" taller.).
I ride a slightly lowered 2007 1200GSA and a lowered 300 Beta RR two stroke dual sport. I am able to tackle much harder things with both. The BMW becomes difficult to manage in off camber if you have to stop. The Beta was harder to do pivot turns as a taller bike doing single track. I don't think I will ever buy a bike again without budgeting a custom suspension in the price of the bike. I will buy a less capable bike and do the suspension before buying a more "Capable bike".
I bought an aprilia ETV 1000 Caponord from a guy a foot taller than me. He jad raised the seat with dogbones and i couldn't find the regular ones to replace them... So i went with lowering bones, dropped the forks and inch through the yoke and its much lower but still tips in like it did before. And i can flat foot on both sides as opposed to tippietoes on one... No complaints here
I just dropped off my new 2023 KTM 350 xc-f at the shop to install a Kouba Link for starters to see how I feel. They will adjust fork height and sag and dial it in for 190lbs. I'm 5'9". The stock seat height is 37.5 and I have a 32" inseam. On the seat I'm barely touching extreme tippy toes. Super uncomfortable. I'll ride it when it's done and next step would be to purchase a new low seat if I want to go lower. I'm 52 and a slower single track rider in the trees. I want to be comfortable on my first new bike since 1990. Comfortable equals confidence equals fun!! That's how I see it.
I have been riding tall dirt bikes my whole life, always using rock, stumps and anything else to dismount . Mounting was always easy because I would have my left boot on the peg and then throwing my other leg over it. For my 64th birthday I bought a new 250 and after two years had M9 Suspension out or Redmend Or. lower my bike. Why the hell didn’t I do this 30 years ago! I don’t motor cross but I ride the hell out of the Pacific Northwest trails and sand dunes on the coast…
I ride a KTM 690 SMCR with a 35.04 seat height. I'm 5'7 with a 30 inch inseam. I bought a OEM preload adjuster that KTM sells so now I can crank up or down the preload with ease. I try not to change the height too much though, maybe an inch or so. It also lets me increase the preload easily if I'm carrying luggage or a passenger.
As a 5'2" guy, I lower my bikes so that I can just barely touch my toes on both sides at same time for balance when stopped. I will never be able to completely flat foot a bike unless I don't care that it only 3 inches left of ground clearance. While everyone likes to think they are champion riders, the actual reality is that the top 5-10% of motorcycle hardware performance, whether off road or road, is only usable by 2% of riders anyways. Give most motorcycle riders a championship motorcycle, and they still won't win any races, so the normal tall guys who say suck it up are actually full of crap since they generally can't use all their bike's performance potential either. Therefore, changing the geometry to the point it might affect bike hardware performance negatively by 5-10%, is still meaningless to the 98% of riders anyway, but confidence and comfort of being able to touch both feet down at the same time will get them far more "usable" performance gains. For example, on my off road bike (KLX300) it doesn't matter that I lost a inch or more of the rear suspension travel using links and a 1/2 inch off the front by raising the forks. Why doesn't it matter, because I'm getting older, and I don't do crazy off road stuff that actually needs the extra amount of suspension travel anymore. At my age, one minor accident can be negatively life changing. I can still do the trails and such, I just do them slower, and hence, the suspension is not being pounded on so hard to need the extra inches of travel. A heavy 250lb 6'2" guy telling short people to to suck it up, while he bottoms his suspension out because of his weight is not the person shorter riders should listen to. So for the recommended changes to lower a bike #1 is seat mods. It EASY to remove a seat cover, hit the foam with a belt sander with a 80-120 grit new belt (which take away only a little at time and leaves foam pretty smooth) and re-cover with a staple gun. I can do one now in about two hours and it's rare to have a seat you cant thin at least an inch without affecting butt comfort. The thinner foam will actually be more comfortable than the thicker foam if you sculpt it carefully to your butt. While sculpting seat foam, put seat back on bike and ride around block , then sculpt out any pressure points from foam corners.
I need to rush back into work but I will say this. I have a Trident 660, not too tall but I am tiny. 5’ 7”, inseam about 30-31 tops. I dropped it enough to flat foot it comfortably. I think I sort of enjoyed its real height, looks perkier so I prefer to just ride normally and take my time than have a pretty yet weirdly small looking bike. Mucho amor before I get fired lmao, peace my guys!
@@one277 Lowering bones for the rear, and raise the forks a little bit in the triple-clamp, if possible. Don't forget a new adjustable kick stand, as the OEM will likely be too long now.
@@firstnamelastname4749 hey, yep. I am 100% having problems liking the way my Trident looks now that it’s been lowered by 1”. It looks too small for the style which is really weird because I was NOT expecting that. The guy rolled it out of the shop and I instantly knew it wasn’t for me. Next we move on to how I feel on it…because of how the bike looks; and my height, it adds this sense of ‘damn I bet people are looking at me and thinking that I am short’ and I have never felt that before. So I’ve caught myself questioning things I shouldn’t, so it’s going right back up to stock in a week and I’ll be 1 footing/tiptoeing the entire way lol.
@@one277 I took it to the dealership that I bought it from, they fix bikes there so I called and asked if that was something they could do and the guy asked me to come on by (same day!). I don’t know what they did exactly but now the forks have the screws sticking up and before it was flush.
First of all, who is going to know if you don't tell them? Unless you are lowering the unit by 3+ inches, it would be hard to tell without placing another bike right next to the lowered one & a lot of short riders cut the seat foam so that alone is going to be noticed where cutting the sub frame, fitting the proper lowering parts into the shock & forks is very hard to spot. One of the HARDEST parts of lowering with internal spacers into the suspension units is then re-working the valving to keep the upper/soft part of the stroke to be as long as it should be and equally spacing the MID & BOTTOMING parts of the travel to be happening at the right part of the travel. Another thing is that the raising rate of leverage change in the stroke of the swing arm will be different if the shock is shorter, another thing to try and BALANCE to keep the proper feel! P.S. try to find the shortest sidewall tires that will still deliver the performance you desrie!
![6 Ways How To LOWER A Dirt Bike Seat Height [& The Effects]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5NDTAv0sl0M/mqdefault.jpg)
![6 Ways How To LOWER A Dirt Bike Seat Height [& The Effects]](/img/tr.png)
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Read Jen's full article on Common Tread: rvz.la/3O5bn9j
Shop lowering options for your motorcycle: rvz.la/3JI3LXF
How much riding/racing experience does this gal have? I will listen and find out. :)
Ohh, lets see what today's "experts" say. I find many "experts" don't know as much as they think they do.
One fact is, both with 12" of suspension travel, dirt bikes did not get modern tall until the 4-stroke was forced on the industry by the EPA. That was due to the head being 4" taller than a 2-stroke, but some of them made it back down to the pre-4 stroke days. The YZ250 2-stroke went the other way, and now is probably the tallest bike made. I was not going to ride it like that,--so I fixed mine. Cornering is night and day difference, also helped by lowering the bars from the modern ape hanger set up. The 80's and 90's were rational. Today is not.
1st "expert" is one. :)
Martin is not expert. He is a short Pro. I knew which way he would go. :)
Bottom line IMO for a MX bike, (even lower for a woods bike), if you can't touch both toes on the ground, you will corner better if you can.
Good vid miss Jen.
I hate the entire stigma of "What will other people think of my bike" period. Lower it, modify it, change it, make it yours within the confines of the law. It's YOURS. It's YOUR look, YOUR feel, YOUR ride.
If it's another off road bike - it's meant to be tall. Therefore, a person who lowers it, will compromise the bike's balanced, control and handling.
I've seen plenty of people who get into dirt riding at first lower their bike - only later to raise it after they realize how much better it is at the regular (correct) height. I always tell them, "if you can get one foot down - that's good enough. Off road bikes really aren't supposed to be flat-footed."
As far as road bikes - that's a different ball game.
Sure it's their bike, but with dirt bikes I advise people to either get a smaller model or learn how to ride it properly.
@@khaccanhle1930 If you have a dirt bike with a 38 inch tall seat, you might be able to lower it an inch and a half max with a lowering link. So, your seat height is now 36.5 inches. You still won't come close to flat footing. If you have to dab a foot down while straddling a slight dip it will be even worse. At 70 years old I'm too old to learn how to ride properly. I just want to have fun and not drop my bike any more than I have to.
@@olddirtbiker5088great reply.
To me, it depends on the bike, the rider, experience level, and end us. First thing I had to do with my XS Eleven, originally my mom's. When she got it, the seat height was about an inch too high. Dad wanted to compress and weld the rear coil springs, and I said no ****ing way. Ordered a new see, and a new fork spring and seal kit, that both had a 1.5 inch lower ride height, and installed them as soon as they arrived.
When she passed 6 years later, I left it at that height, and increased preload. Made it handle better, hold a line better, and launch better. More stability at low speeds, to where I could stop, Then set my left foot down. It was my usual, when she was at her shop.
Handles well enough that I modded the foot brake, pegs, and shifter, when I became an above knee amputee. Got back on, dirt bike first, 650 end of that season, back on the street, and got back on my Eleven in May.
Dirt bike, I wouldn't dream of lowering one. Still have my 125 and 250, factory suspension. More fun ripping flat out on a small, flickable, bike. Want a bigger one, go street, or build a scrambler.
And yes, I still have goals. Used to use the Eleven for bike rodeos, and was damn good at it. My goal is to enter my first post amputation rodeo.
@@olddirtbiker5088fully agree.
If you know what you are doing, lower your street or track bike, if not, go to a professional.
Dirt. Just buy a smaller one.
“…within the confines of the law.” Idk, I’ve seen some awesome looking sketch-heights. Lol
As someone who is 188cm (6'2") i don't need to worry about it.
But my wife, 157cm (5'2") does struggle. Finding bikes that she is comfortable riding is tricky.
We will certainly be going down the route of lowering bikes for her.
Telling someone "just deal with it" is absolutely ridiculous. Not everyone is out there trying to win races or jump massive jumps.
We just want to enjoy the ride, and more importantly, for this conversation, enjoy the stop, with firmly planted feet
I'm 6'1 my ktm 1290 sar is pretty high, it is difficult to put both feet on the ground at the same time. I wouldn't lower it but it's definitly high. The seat height on mine is a bit over 35 inch.
She should just be a passenger. Motorcycles aren't for every dwarf out there.
@@mortaljorma69 Ha. Ha. I know you said that just to be funny and I have to admit it almost made me chuckle.
Hey, I just want to say thank you for making a video about this subject . I'm a 5'1" dude, and I feel like I'm all alone with this subject. Please more videos for the shorter riders.
I'm 4'10"--I still haven't found one I'm comfortable riding solo. :(
@@studiogru3649 Try a KLX230S
@@studiogru3649honda grom
It's not just shorter riders... Everyone is built differently. I'm 6 ft tall but have a really long torso so my inseam is only 28 in. Adventure bikes seem impossibly tall
@@studiogru3649 know they get a lot of hate but some of the scooters are awesome.
I have a Yamaha Morphous that I originally bought for my wife and that is frequently the first thing I jump on when I just want to take a casual ride somewhere.
I “hung up the helmet” for a while when my daughter was born. I picked up mountain biking when she was little before returning to motorcycles. One thing I learned is the importance of fit to the bike. In the cycling world, they’ll change everything. Seat post length, saddle position, stack height, stem length, bar sweep, crank length, over forking, rear linkage changes… anything to fit the bike to the rider. And this is an industry with actual frame sizes! Many bikes even have flip chips to adjust the geometry of the bike frame itself. It’s not evil or wrong. Just think it through, and make sure it works for your riding.
Mountain bikes have gotten bigger as well. I personally can't go above 27.5
@@hyedefinition1080true. I’m 5’7” and ride a size Medium 29er. The stand over is still pretty high for me.
@@hyedefinition1080 They're WAY bigger than when I was a kid. I don't know why everyone fetishizes huge wheels. It's the same for cars. I got a new Camry with 19 inch wheels (didn't have a choice for the options I wanted). My 9 year old Cadillac CTS Vsport had 18 inch wheels. Why would I need wheels an inch bigger...for a Camry? The tiny brake disk in the huge wheel looks weird. It gets worse mileage than the 17 inch base model too.
@@hyedefinition1080 Dropper seat posts help a ton, I just built a 27.5 bike myself, and the height I have it set for good pedaling efficiency is way too tall when I need to come to a stop, so I can drop it down when stopping.
@@JCintheBCC I'm your size as well (5'10", 32" inseam).
I think 29's are overkill for my skill. 27.5's are so much more flickable, get going quicker and allow my skills to grow naturally. I have a 27.5+ for better traction as well.
But the market &marketing dictates the products in all industries.
I've been riding for years. I am male and 5'1" with a 25" inseam. It never ceases to be a source of frustration that the manufacturers constantly keep seat heights way up high, presumably, just to accommodate taller riders (and s*d the shorties!). I learned to ride on a DT 50, and have ridden lots of full height motorcycles. I REALLY learned how to ride when I had my Kawasaki GT550 (800mm seat height). Eventually I learned to shift my weight when I came to a stop so I was only half sitting on the bike, and half standing (if you see what I mean) but then only on tiptoe on one foot. But before then I was always breaking timing case covers on the end of the crankshaft through dropping the bike at low speeds. My last bike (hopefully there will be more) was an XJ6 Diversion (FZ6 in America) and I cut the seat down and dropped the yokes down the forks by about 10mm. Much more comfortable, but still on tiptoe. Always on tiptoe. I've never done the swapping the linkage on the rear suspension thing. I've never been able to afford it. And let's face it, really I shouldn't have to!
I get the fact that taller riders need more "room" as they're physically bigger. But it's far easier for them to just get a thicker seat to sit on (a "booster cushion" dare I say it!) on a bike that's a bit too low, than for me to have to go through all the rigmarole of considering lowering kits, altering the fork settings, and cutting down seats, on bikes which needn't be so tall. And if it's too tall in the showroom, I can't test ride it to see if I like it, before I buy it, and do all the mods to lower it!
And then there's all the haughty comments from taller riders when you make comments to this effect. NOT NECESSARY GUYS! I'm just trying to get people to see that if bikes were designed with shorter riders in mind, they could potentially sell more of them to the majority of people who aren't over 5'8" or so. Lower the seat sub-frames and offer two seat height options (with a meaningful difference in height, not a piddly 20mm!).
Some bikes are tall because they are BIG. Like the GS BMWs - I call that size bikes "elephants". Okay, "horses for courses". I never look at those because I know they're far too big for me to hold up, on tiptoe, with pointed boots, when I come to a standstill. I need to stick to the smaller bikes. Plenty to choose from. Oh look, the Husquvarna Svartpillen. Only 400ccs. Great looking bike! Hold on, the seat height is EIGHT HUNDRED AND THIRY FIVE MILLIMETRES. A small bike with a too-tall seat height (can you hear my teeth grating????). And I'm not interested in "cruisers". I can't stand the foot forward thing which Triumph Bobber and Harleys etc all have. But I often feel as though people want to fob me off by pointing me in the direction of the apehangers and peanut tanks and suggesting I get one of those instead, just because they have a low seat height.
Come on guys. Bikes have been around for AGES now. Surely the manufacturers, by now, should have worked out that if you're short, yes you can ride, but it's a total pain in the saddle to have to deal with. Either stick with the discomfort of stretching your foot down every time you stop, or go through the effort and expense of lowering. Really tedious.
When the solution is simple. Just lower the rear subframe and offer two different seat thicknesses.
So yes, I agree with what you say in the video. If you are short, and you want to lower your bike you should do it (although ground clearance on cornering might become a problem!). If you don't want to lower it, you can live with it, but only (in my case) if the seat height isn't any more than about 810mm. Over that height and you may not have enough leverage in your short limbs to manage the bike at stopping speeds, certainly without a lowering kit/cutdown seat/prayers etc. And don't forget that if you are short in the leg, your arms will also probably be shorter than average as well. This means that you will be leaning forward more, as your arms stretch to reach the bars. Not so good if you want a nice relaxed upright position, but find yourself in more of a racing crouch for some strange reason.
Just some thoughts.
WEAR EAR PLUGS! (you don't want tinnitus, believe me)
I could not have said this better! You hit the nail on the head! I'm so tired of seat heights being so dang high! I'm with you, I don't like cruisers and I resent the way manufacturers have pushed them on us shorter riders. They feel like as long as they offer something with a 28 inch seat height, every other bike can be tall. It's kinda like they're saying, "Look, we gave you this cruiser over here. That's for you. Now leave all the other bikes alone because you can't ride them." Of course you CAN ride them, but it's not comfortable. It's uncomfortable backing up in a parking lot on tip toe or trying to hold the bike up at a long traffic light. I hope the manufacturers start making bikes with lower seat heights.
The grass is always greener. It's not easier for tall riders to adapt for their height. So I'm not only white but I'm 6' tall. I'm to blame for ruining the world. I still have hair too. I'm a bad man
Damn you have explained our problem better then anyone else
@@dragoonxgamer No worries!
@@64maxpower idiioot
As a shorter rider with a 28” inseam, this was an issue I was definitely having. While I was taught to just lean and tip toe with one foot, there were still a number of situations where I felt not in control without able to get both feet on the ground.
I currently ride a Kawasaki Z650, it’s a naked midweight bike that’s about the size of a 300. Stock the seat was 30” (already about an inch lower than average) and then I added Progressive Springs front and rear. This maintains the bikes geometry, but adds another 1.5” drop. I strongly suggest shorter riders look into both, it’s a great set up!
I'm 6 ft tall but built more like a gorilla as my inseam is 28 in as well. I feel your pain
Great bike even with a 34" inseam
Oh yes I picked this bike up specifically cause I didn't have to lower it. Its basically the only bike with enough power for me that I don't have to lower. Still want to upgrade to the z900 but will have to lower that one for sure
Do you have any tutorials you followed and which brand you used? I got a Ninja 650, and I’m tip toeing at stops lol.
Love the z650 I got one
I was always told lowering my dual sport would ruin the handling… by guys who would put 60 pounds of camping gear on the back of their bike.
Another point worth making RE: the geometry concern: Rider weight and suspension sag also change geometry. A 36” WR250R isn’t 36” with a 6-foot 200 lbs rider on it. And with a 5’ 6” rider that weighs 140 lbs., the bike is taller geometry than what the taller, heavier rider gets.
That's a really good observation.
I agree, it's all about confidence, riding something you're not comfortable in is not only a hazard to yourself but also the people around you.
The best cure for poor confidence is instruction and training, not backyard modification to a carefully designed bike. Practice, practice, practice!
@@pistonburner6448 who said anything about backyard modification? Did you even watch the video?
@@basicreviews6056 I said backyard modification because that is in truth what most people will do. I specified that in order to be precise and accurate, making the debate more clear.
In my comment I wanted to make clear that I'm not saying proper lowering of bikes if absolutely necessary is wrong, but it should be avoided unless absolutely necessary, and that most of the time the cure is improving skills.
@@pistonburner6448and what bike would you practice on? even riding schools use lower bikes to teach students, because being able to place both feet on the ground makes them feel more confident. No bike is perfect from the factory, some dealership even offers lowering kit for brand new bikes.
@@basicreviews6056 Practice on the bike you intend to ride. Maybe buy a pit bike or Monkey or something if you really feel you need to, but I'm not a fan of buying "training bikes" (for a short period of time) except for those who are serious about constantly training on them for years. I do strongly support having a training bike to use forever to keep practicing, but I know that's now what most people buy them for and that's just an unnecessary expense in those cases.
You don't need to "feel confident" when practicing.
Thank you for making this video! I struggled with the stigma of lowering my Tiger but I’ve realized I judge myself more than anyone else does. Nice to see an effort being made to correct this. It’s all about riding your own ride at the end of the day.
Almost all the damage done to my 300 KTM happened from stall and fall . Not being able to get a toe down and dab can be expensive (rads) and exhausting (picking the bike up). Shortening the bike has added years to my ride life . 72 and counting.
Jen is so adorable! Her personality makes watching her vids just that more interesting and informative. A shorten bike is the way to go. Thanks Jen!
Regarding adjustability: my sv650 was lowered with different links and in the triple clamp when I bought it. It drove just fine. But the PO gave me the original links and after scraping the pegs a few times I decided to bring the bike back to its original height. Easy job. I wouldn’t judge people for doing what is good for their comfort and safety.
Conversely: I have raised my cruiser beyond its original height. I mostly ride it two-up, with luggage, and I was frequently bottoming out front and rear suspension. That meant beefier springs and the rear shocks are 3/4” longer than stock. Both front and rear came up about the same amount and the bike handles the same. However, I did the front first, and only did the rear a few weeks later. With a taller front the handling was more sluggish. Not unsafe by any stretch but it did handle like a different bike. Once the rear was up as well, it handled like original. With better ground clearance I can lean this thing more now, without scraping metal parts :) and the overall comfort is greatly improved.
Bought a ZH2 and found it to be top heavy and just not as as confidence inspiring as my R9T so I picked up lowering links. This gave a 1” lower seat and has been the best mod I’ve made so far and I'm 5' 8" 29" inseam.
That's awesome man, but did you lower the front Forks by an inch as well? That's what they were talking about when lowering a bike, but balanced. Ride safe!
I’m 5’7 with a 28 inseam and own a BMW R1250 GSA with factory low suspension. It feels right for me.
They call it a low chassis they ride great. I took out a white 2015 one I couldn't fault it.
Thanks Jen, great video. Lowering a motorcycle is fine if that’s what you need but it’s not just as simple as installing lowering links in the rear as some people seem to think.
If a manufacturer offers a kit go with that option. Or consult a suspension specialist.
I love all the Revzilla people. You make our passion so much more fun!
Being 5'7" and having dropped a buddy's bike because my legs were swinging in the air when I tried to stop (admittedly on an angled driveway where there was extra distance between the ground and my feet) I'd almost decided that dual sports and proper ADV's weren't for me (though I did sit on an exceptionally low R1250GS once.) This video is helping me rethink that.
I'm 5'6 and ride a lowered R1250GS with lowered seat and I manage ok. I'm definitely on the balls of my feet at stop lights and one footing it on heavy camber roads, but it is dooable.
I'm 72 year old and been riding sense I was 15. There are so many great bikes on the market that I no longer feel comfortable just strattling in the show room. If lowering the bike properly means I'm able to own what I want and extend the sport I love, so be it! Yes age is a factor but, control of the bike at all levels is just common sense.
I'm in the middle on this one. I'm not very tall, 5'6" with a 30" inseam, so I've been there. A shorter bike gives you confidence, let's your fears have a backstop, so you don't completely shut down and loose your cool. At the same time though, its like playing a video game on easy mode, you can enjoy it, but you have to turn up the difficulty and leave your comfort zone to grow as a rider. My bike is tall for me, and I've stuck with it, and because of it, my abilities have grown massively in the past couple years. I'm still a Muppet, but looking at where I started, vs where I have come too, there's no question that sticking to hard mode was the right choice. Remember, nothing that's worth doing in life is easy.
I would agree in some ways and disagree in others. What I agree with is that yeah you can fight it out and slowly get yourself to work with what you got. but at the same time, have you ever heard the saying work smarter not harder? all bikes and people that ride them are independent individuals, if there is a way to get the edge quicker, get more comfortable faster then why wouldn't people do that? if lowering it to help them build confidence quickly, that means they are going to learn the bike multiple times faster and can bring the bike back to stock. mechanically these bikes are made to be tinkered with and tuned to yourself for yourself. If you were tasked with digging through the mountain to get to the other side, do you pick a pick axe or a tunneling excavator? nothing that's worth doing in life is easy is very subjective. because smaller things that you can do more easily and quickly of that builds into something larger and just as rewarding as something you fought hard for. there is never a black and white side my friend. I do commend people who stick with it and fight hard for it because theyre able to and willingly commit to, but that is never the case for every individual because as stated before, everyone is an individual.
I lowered my WR250r, but I needed to use some trigonometry to figure out how far to slide up the forks to keep the front in proportion to the rear. Like Jen said, you gotta do it right!
Usually about half, if you drop the rear 20mm raise the forks 10mm. That rule of thumb is usually fairly accurate. I just lowered my tenere700 18mm at the rear and 9mm through the forks and it’s still handling brilliant. In fairness I gave the preload a couple of turns on the rear too
@@mbal4052 What method do you use to lower it? I installed an OEM preload adjuster in my KTM 690 SMCR and only lowered a tiny bit, nothing drastic. Good thing is I can adjust the height with ease.
My bike is about as low as my credit score!
Is your bike a plaw by any chance?
😂😂
😂 Hahaha
So you're raising it?? 🙈
😂
I'm 6'2' tall with a 34 inch inseam. I lowered my bike, I sold my F850GSA and bought a KTM890 Adventure /S, and even for a tall person like me those couple of inches of seat height made all the difference in the world. Why struggle, ride a bike that fits.
I'M 5'6" and bout a T7, which I love, I had to lower it so I could even reach the ground with tip toe of both feet. Seems every bike I've had since I was a kid I have always had issues with being able to touch the ground so it's nothing new. I did ensure that both front and rear were lowered same amount so my geometry is as it should be. Seems those who say you shouldn't lower your bike are usually those who are taller and don't know what a pain and confidence killer it is... Thanks for the video!
I lowered my KTM 690 cuz dabbing or just parking the bike was a huge challenge for a short leg guy like me! After 9k miles, numerous trips, I still find I ride just fine.
excellent work Jen
I'm 6'2" still haven't mounted a motorcylce I can't touch both feet but when the ground isn't even on both sides sometimes I wish I had some knee bend too! Jen for President!
Great video Jen.
Telling shorter riders to, “just deal with it” is akin to not adjusting the seat/steering wheel when you get into a car.
I would have liked to have heard what the actual effects of the most common lowering mods is on a motorcycle. Ie changing the shock linkage and dropping the forks through the triples.
Your professional rider focused on static mods (lowering seat & raising footpegs) while the suspension professional unsurprisingly advocated internally modifying the suspension
I lowered my '21 Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 40mm (1.5 inches) with AF1 lowering link & adjusting the forks the same amount, I tour with luggage & also Drag Race it which helps in both cases. Although my Track bike is a '14 Aprilia Tuono V4 1000 I didn't lower it as once on and rolling I ain't putting a foot down lol
Finally some good video to stop those (popular) RUclipsrs who cannot stop saying "Dont lower your bike" and try so hard to demonstrate their toeing skills. I have lowered all 3 bikes of mine (MT07, XSR700, Ninja650) with a good lowering kit and lowered kickstand from USA, never once I regret such decision. In fact, if it were not for the T-Rex lowering kit, I would not even be able to ride a bigger CC motorcycle and I will keep buying the kit for my future bikes.
I would love to put those "know not much" you tubers who say "never lower your bike", on a stock YZ250 2-stroke, so I can take the inside line off camber and blow them out of the berm they have to use. :)
100% . Ride how you are comfortable with!
But a new rider does not know the difference.
I'm sure you know that when I got my XR650L in 93 (first year) it had 12" of travel at both ends. So 2brothers racing had a link for the rear shock linkage that lowered the rear end down 15mm. So I also lowered the front forks in the triple clamps the same because you can't do one without the other. And that helps in the tight woods sections.
Spot on on the topic of lowering, just two more things to consider first:
1) take a course and actually practice with your bike to build confidence
2) If you lack confidence, question whether you bought the right bike, or just got sold on what is praised as good
Bonus) Practice on light bikes to build confidence [forces you to get rid of the "waddeling"]
There is a difference between what people actually need and what people think they need. Manufacturers tend to cater to the latter, in which case mods are needed.
Good advice. 😊
So we cannot modify our bikes? If I buy a Harley and decide taller handle bars would be more comfortable for me do I have to question whether or not I bought the right bike? If you want a certain bike but need to make the bars taller or the shocks an inch lower or change from mid pegs to forward pegs then I say go ahead and buy the bike you want and then modify it however you feel like to end up with exactly what you desire in a bike. It's silly to tell people to buy a bike and just practice using it like it is stock so that you can deal with it instead of making a modification. So when you see a Harley guy in the hell's angles buy a bike and change the handle bars or add a sissy bar do you walk up to him and say "There is a difference between what you actually need and what you think you need so you need to question whether or not you bought the right bike". I doubt it.
@@jlrutube1312 The topic is "lowering your bike", not change handlebars. I have no idea who or what you are arguing against. Harleys are generally low enough (afaik) so I really do not see the connection here.
For clarity sake: changing your bike to make it more comfy for your style of riding is a good idea, and I certainly will not complain about quality of life changes. I began with agreeing with the video, which concludes that lowering is fine, just added that skill is another point, and that gaining skill takes practice, and how one could go about it.
From personal experience: my wife started with waddeling a lot on here bike. On mine she couldn't, so she had to get used not to waddle, but instead to handle the bike properly and to learn to balance it. She then stopped waddeling on hers as well, and felt much more comfy.
Lowering is not the only option, starting on a light, tall bike and learning basics is however beneficial, especially for new riders. Just take a course and have fun.
I think with "what you need/want" I meant big adventure bikes, which are simply bulky and not easy to handle. They are advertised as offering a lot, but not everyone needs this much and many drivers would be more happy with a smaller dual sport. But this is another topic entirely.
Now I will go and enjoy my 17th season on a tall but light single cylinder :)
@@punkbutcher5321 Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Have a great day.
@@jlrutube1312 Glad I could clarify, and that it is appreciated.
I hope you are greeting back to someone on an Enduro or naked bike, around here most Harley drivers don't. Not that I mind, but I think this "divide" is sort of hilarious. On a parking lot, with helmets down, the conversations are generally relaxed and enjoyable though. Some cruisers are real beauties, certainly more than my current KTM... but I choose my bike according to what feels right for me, not for the looks.
If you want to get some understanding for what I meant with big bikes and big advertisement, just look for videos like "Adventure Motorcycles are a SCAM". There is quite some backlash against those, rightfully I think.
Great weekend to all riders \m/
Thanks so much. I'm 70yo, have a 28 inch inseam and weigh too much. I recently started having some serious knee trouble but not enough for a replacement. I haven't ridden in months due to worries that I might not be able to hold up my motorcycle. I have a set of Matisse links, but I was not sure about putting them on. You just convinced me. thanks.
The heavier the bike , the more a too tall seat affects confidence and real world safety.
A LEARNER rider should never be anywhere near a road on a bike they cannot at least half flat foot with both feet.
As a suspension tech I have lowered many dirt bikes and street bike for vertically challanged riders. 100% the benefits outweigh the loss of travel, and reversibility is always an option.
Do you call 5'9" vertically challenged? It is average height for Americans, and my 2019 YZ250 2-stroke was stupid tall. I see a lot of kids with terrible corner speed in their go-pro vids. We were never that slow in the 80's. OK, 1 guy was. :)
I'm 5'11" and I lowered my yz 250 one inch.
Honestly, Jen's presentations always remind me of RyanFortNine's work.
Keep it up, Jen.
Who cares what other people think. If you feel safer, more comfortable and better overall then do whatever you need to your bike. I lowered my 690 Enduro and it's amazing now. That 35ishmm made all the difference. I slammed down hard on the bash plate off a jump but I'm not taking the kouba link off. I'm perfectly happy with it. And the geometry is still fine regardless of what the so called "experts" say.
Thank you for making this video. I'm 5'7" and ride a Triumph Scrambler 1200XC. I can technically touch the ground with both feet but I don't feel secure all the time at stoplights or, especially, offroad. I've been debating if I should install the TEC lowering springs but I'm getting mixed feedback from people about what it will do to the geometry and handling of the bike. It was GREAT to hear the straight answers from your experts. I think those springs are now calling my name.
As a 6'1" rider, I have no trouble getting on any bike. I've dirt and street bikes for about 30 years now. My 5' wife finally agreed to get a bike. First thing I did was lower it so she'd be comfortable. Fuck the stigma, ride comfortable, forget what anyone ekse has to say about it. TBH though, I didn't even know there was a stigma with lowering bikes. I guess it's because none of the people I've rode with over the years have been on the shorter side.
Great video. I am 5’7 with a 29 inch inseam. Have a DR650 in Pakistan which is lowered to my comfort levels and just bought the Transalp here in the US which I feel comfortable in already because of the sag in the suspension. I ride for fun, have limitations in my riding ability and feel perfectly fine on my lowered bikes. The message of the video is great, it’s ok to make the bike fit to your comfort levels and go ride have fun. The rest is just noise.
I raised my 2010 FZ1 and it’s been great. I’m 5’ 11” but I hate flat footing bikes. Lifting it has made it so much more comfortable and it leans deeper
I’m 5’7” with a 30” inseam, and I have short legs. I bought a ‘23 Thruxton RS last fall: the bike has a 31.8” seat height. Before I bought it, I had always owned Harleys. Low Harleys. As in Sportster Forty-Eights and Softails. I wasn’t able to ride the RS right away due to weather, so I just practiced sitting on it and moving it around in my driveway. I could get the tips of my toes down, but nowhere near flat footing it. I thought long and hard about lowering it, but it’s not something I felt comfortable with doing myself, and my options with local custom shops is almost nonexistent. At the advice of an online Triumph forum, I ended up getting a pair of thick-soled riding boots (Merlin Bandits) and putting 3mm insoles in them. I can almost flat foot the bike now.
I lowered a Virago that I converted to a bobber, it's great!
Super important video for a TON of people. Thanks y'all.
I dropped my FJR1300 15mm (millimeters) at the shock linkage in the rear and dropped the front forks by 22mm, I no longer struggle reversing or slipping on gravel, and I've sharpened the rake just right for me. Tuning the bike to myself is a must, no bike is made perfect for you from the factory.
One crucial point from this video: If you only raise or lower one or the other end, understand that this changes the rake and geometry of the bike very noticeably.
Great vid. We need more Jen content. My missus Jen, is thinking about doing her CBT. We live in the UK. How about some specific videos highlighting their biking needs?
Yep, I agree 100 percent. If you need to lower your bike to feel safer and have more confidence then do it. Your the one that is riding it so who cares what others say or think. I always put a lowerlink on my bikes if possible and adjust the front forks to match.
I have lowered both my previous bike, a Kawasaki Versys 650 and my present bike, a Kawasaki Concours 14. I am 5' - 9" and, having ridden bikes for about 60 years, know that it is vital to be able to "flat foot" when stopped to maintain firm control of the mass of the bike. The only issue I ever had was that the Concours, which had the center stand removed and aftermarket 4 in to 2 exhaust system installed, scraped once when entering a gas station driveway. I later discovered that the mechanic that installed the new exhaust system had oriented the joint band clamps so the projecting part, the screw and nut, was on the bottom. That alone reduced clearance by about half an inch. Once I loosened and rotated the clamps to a position of maximum clearance I haven't had any further problems.
This video came in right time for me, I'm 5.5 and i needed a bike that sporty and tourer but im in budget so i can't choose the one i want, and the city that im living in which is Istanbul is full of traffic and we sometimes have to ride it slow pass between cars, that means i have to be confident putting my feet to the ground when needed. Now i have to find out which bike is suits to lower and how. Thx rev.
Note they didnt interview an engineer, or anyone remotely qualified to have an opinion. this seems deliberate
Thank you for making this video.
It's all about control and safety. Lower your bike to fit YOU.
Those who think lowering dirt bikes is for beginners obviously haven’t ridden hard enduro. On my 2022 Beta 300 I have a lowering link (Kobel), Seat Concepts wide and low seat and forks high in the triple clamp which allows me (28 inch inseam) to tippy toe my Alpinestars. Martin and Carmichael both cut and welded their subframe, seat foam etc. Reduced ground clearance can be a problem though. Bikes are made to customize to the individual.
Thanks, Jen and Revzilla. I've raced my entire life, motocross, desert, and finally road racing. Recently bought a 2022 Ducati Multistrada V4S and with the weight and higher seat I just didn't feel as comfortable in some situations. Thankfully Ducati makes a lowering kit specific to the MSV4, shock, and fork springs, and a side stand. Geometry ratios remain the same as does the performance of the magic Skyhook suspension. I have a colleague who said "I'd never lower a bike" and that's fine. When I buy a home, car, or motorcycle, for someone OTHER THAN ME then I'll ask about their view. But it's my bike, so I do what I want. F what others think.
Appreciate the video. I am 5’5 and new to riding and find it very hard to find a bike that I feel good on
same, and I'm getting a bigger bike soon, this time i will surely lower it.
I'm 5'5 and got a new Z400. I am just short of flat footing both legs. I put 1 foot flat down at a stop and do fine. I've done 1200 miles in the 3 weeks I've had it. Good fun bike, not incredibly fast but better bargain than a 650 that cost 3 to 4k more. I did find, however, the ninja 650 fit me even better. But that price wasn't worth it.
I'm 5'6" with a 29" inseam. My ride is a 2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT. This is a pretty tall bike. I looked like a ballerina on it with just my tippy toes touching on both sides. Two big issues arose from this. 1) it was really dicey when my wife would mount the pillion seat and 2) I really couldn't paddle walk the bike backward when I needed to. I installed a 15mm dog bone lowering kit and raised the forks in the triple tree the same amount. Transformative! Now I can put the balls of my feet squarely on the ground. I was concerned about ground clearance, but even when riding fast in the twisties I've never touched down. The only drawback is that it takes more effort to get the bike up on the center stand. This is the best mod to the bike I have done.
I used to ride in the 70's. I recently bought a 2024 KLX 300. It was way higher and of course I'm not as flexible at 66. I was talking to a motorcycle mechanic and he said something that made perfect sense. When the manufacturers went from a dual shock system to a mono shock system, they HAD to raise the bike for the new system to work. I am not an aggressive rider at all. I think I'm going to lower my bike just an inch or two, front and back.
Putting lowering link/dogbone in the rear and dropping the fork in the front to evenly lower the bike is the cheapest way to do it, however, there's compromise in the suspension travel because any amount that you lower the bike is the amount of less suspension travel you will get. It might not be a major issue if you ride modestly on the street, but it could become an issue for dual sport (off road) riding as bottoming out the suspension would more likely to happen. Then there's the lean factor in regards to foot peg clearance to consider too. The ideal way to lower the bike would be to replace the rear shock with shorter shock with proper damping and spring rate along with front fork progressive springs. Doing it this way will lower the bike with mitigation of suspension travel compromise. Most costly but ideal. Another option especially for lighter riders is to adjust the rear spring preload to increase the "sag" a long with "low seat".
I used to ride a low seat Tiger 800 XRX, and I had serious issues with clearance, especially while riding two up. Also, the factory recalibrated the suspensions, so it was not as comfy as the “normal” bike, and the payload was hugely lower too. Back in 2021, traded it in for a Tiger 900 GT. Main reason why I did that was to get better suspensions, thus more comfort and higher payload. The issue was touching the ground. Lowering the seat alone didn’t help much, so I changed the dog bones on the rear and lowered the front by the same amount, 2cm only (less than and inch). Didn’t notice any issues with stability or even performance. I always crank up the rear preload when traveling two-up with luggage anyways. Only minor issue refers to the side stand and (to a certain degree) the center stand, because the geometry of the bike changed , the side stand got too long and it is slightly more difficult to put the bike on the center stand, since the angle is also different (I solved this by making a small ramp using two pieces of plywood and I put the rear wheel on it, which makes it very easy to lift the bike).
I lowered my FE 250 and my 450 EXC and I am so happy about it! lowering the rear an inch or two does not make it a chopper, actually there is usually enough room to just drop the front forks a bit.
I didn't know changing the gearing changes the geometry too! Thank you Jen for discussing this topic! This is one of the questions that has kept me from deciding on choosing my next motorcycle. I started on a really tall street bike with a high center of gravity and while the riding experience was really amazing, coming to a stop was often a struggle. From there I progressed to buying a cruiser with a low center of gravity and a low seat, and it is absolutely different riding experience from the "confidence" perspective. I am now looking to buy my first enduro motorcycle and although enduros are much lighter, riding off-road and not having the certainty of touching the ground in the critical moments is something that keeps playing in my head. I am wondering about the lowering link (for instance for WR250R). Everyone (all tall people) are telling me not to do it. Obviously, the shorter riders have a different opinion. One thing is for sure - even if the bike would handle a bit worse, I wouldn't feel the difference because I am not a pro rider. :)
Gearing changes the geometry if it results in a longer or shorter chain. If not, it's the same.
@@perpelle thanks!
im brand new to riding at 59yo. i have a 2021 mt07 that i tip toe on. i bought it brand new off the dealer floor and it only has 33 miles on it. i'm not scared to ride it, its my confidence thats got me. i told my brother and my best friend that if they showed up at my house on their motorcycle, i would ride with them. i hope im making sense. i have the link to lower the back, however i dont know how to lower the front. no stunt riding, no off-road, no wheelies, i just want to ride and have fun. i'm seriously asking for advice or guudance. thanks for listening. Ride Safe Everyone.
I lowered my '21 Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 40mm (1.5 inches) with AF1 lowering link & adjusting the forks the same amount, I tour with luggage & also Drag Race it which helps in both cases. Although my Track bike is a '14 Aprilia Tuono V4 1000 I didn't lower it as once on and rolling I ain't putting a foot down lol
If it helps someone feel more comfortable and in turn more confident then I'm all for it.
Lowered my XT250 just to flat foot contact. Safer stops. Safer cornering due to the lower center of gravity. Checked chain slack and spring preload as well. No regrets.
I've been thinking about lowering my new bike but never took the thought process to include reversing the process "until I become comfortable with it" because that is what I'm looking for even though I hadn't considered the after effect 👍
This is the exact information that I have been looking for. Thank you.
Didnt go into more detail. And showed mostly dirtbikes. Thats my take-away from this video!
What about:
footpegs?
rearsets?
rider triangle?
subframe?
Varies other things need to be throw into the mix than just "lowering" the bike.
VERY Best open minded video on this topic. Thanks so much!!!
6' 1" here.. dropping my dirt bike 3" and installing wide street 17" tires.. Super Moto. The handling is greatly improved, I only need like 4" of travel, not 8+.
Bought my first mono shock a couple of years ago (first new bike) after not riding for a long time and bought the XT250 because in part it’s lower than it’s competitors.
It’s easy to lower your bike and keep the same suspension characteristics. Yes they will change things but you lower the gravity will benefit the bike but the stroke being decreased will the suspension bump absorption. You just need to do it equally front and back. Most just to the rear. 😅
First of all, motorcycles come from the factory for an average driver, since not all of them weigh the same or measure the same. In fact, many manuals tell you how to adjust the suspension according to your weight AND MANY BIKES come with a height adjuster (usually the most expensive ones).
Second, yes, modify the cycling of the bike, even as you said at the beginning, lower it evenly, but the reality at the end of the day is that we are not professionals who are going to push the bike to the limit and we are going to find ourselves with that imbalance that we generate We are ordinary motorcyclists that if we do not push the motorcycle to the limit we will not find out and as ordinary motorcyclists we need to be safe and confident on the motorcycle, the best thing to do is lower it as long as it is not extreme.
Lowering helps many people. I raced motocross in the 196o’s with 6 inch front travel and 3 inch rear travel. Bikes with small engine 2 strokes engine. Now tall 4 stroke engine and tall suspension. Crossing narrow river beds on 35 inch seats makes touching ground impossible is going slow.
I love this Super Mario looking guy !! I’ve watched his video on motorcycle fork and head rebuilt great video!!
Haha that was also the first thing I thought 😂
Ha ha ha Hey Luigi!!!
I guess Alex Martin proves the opposite of what people often say, if you're a good enough rider you can compensate for the lowered suspension.
I am an inch and a half shorter than my dad. Both of his feet can stand flat on the ground while sitting on my motorcycle. Just the other day I'm asking him how to lower the front (since I can't afford to buy a shorter shock right now) he discourages me, saying that it is unnecessary. But, I rode a lowered bike before I could confess having a flat foot instead of tiptoeing helps my maneuver.
Having a lower bike makes me feel as one, unlike riding high ones where I feel uncomfortable when banking.
Thank you so much for this video! There is a definite trend toward negativity when it comes to lowering a motorcycle. I have a WR250R that has a factory lowering option built in, which I have taken advantage of. I do have more confidence and feel more comfortable now. And as for Jen, WOW!!! Knowledgeable and drop dead Gorgeous! RevZilla has a winner in you!!!
I’m a 5ft 7 in vet rider and fell over at the starting gate, thanks for the guy that brought me starting blocks . I’m thinking a 18 inch rear. And 20 inch front would help, if
If anyone has tried this please comment back thanks
My wife 4’10 we had to lower her sports bike we’re she feels comfortable. 2 inch rear and front drop. And shaved seat cushion 1 inch. It really helped with confidence.
I lowered the front forks in the Tubes 1" on my Yamaha FZ-07. If I have a heavy passenger I can flat foot on it. I usually have the rear spring pre-load almost to the max because I have side cases, a Top case with a luggage rack.
If I stiffen the rear spring then have a light load my headlight focus is off.. Since I installed an LED bean if my headlight is adjusted for the low beam then the high beam is too high .. If I adjust it for correct low beam focus then the High Bean is off. I like the dual headlight adventure bikes that have a separate manual nob to adjust the high beam and low beam separately .
I raised my Forks back up at Tail of the Dragon I thought the changed geometry was hurting my cornering performance some.
My FZ-07 was not safe to ride hard with the stock forks.. the Ohlin Cartridges are a night and day better improvement .
The whole "If you were a better X (rider or anything else), you wouldn't need X" actually means "I don't want you to have any advantage I didn't get because my ego's hanging on gatekeeping you".
What if I become a better rider by being able to actually ride confidently?
It's your bike, do what you need to enjoy it.
I like the way lowered bikes look and I'm not looking to set lap records at my local track, and as long as you lower the front and back by the same amount you'll be fine.
At 5'7" all adv and dirt bikes are tall and i can deal with it but I usually go with a lowered seat just because I like getting my feet more planted. It just makes traffic lights, parking lots and uneven ground and pavement way easier. Makes bikes feel lighter and more manageble. Ive lowered bikes too and I could care less if the front and rear were not exacly the same. No two bikes have the same geometry anyway so set it up as you like, not how some "youtube expert" says to.
spot on! I have ducks disease, stumpy little legs and a long body. The height trends of modern motorcycles has got me on the verge of giving up motorcycling, a life-long pastime. I got rid of a super-tenere and a klr 650 (which regret intensely) because they were so tall they became unenjoyable, with leg cramps, and the super tenere jumping on me twice, and not in a nice way. The modern trend has actually prevented me from buying motorcycles - KTM (which I love) in particular. I want a nice, relaxed, stable, low cog, UJM now, with a comfortable riding position, and a lower seat height that still doesn't sacrifice too much travel. It's just a design brief! Not too much to ask is it? Because I still want to ride bikes, but not ones that are arrogantly too tall and difficult to maneuver...
I imagine it would definitely be an issue for a short rider with a top heavy sportbike. If you tip toe it, there's a chance it might tip over at a red light and then you're stuck trying to pick it up surrounded by moving cars. I've personally had to help one rider pick up a bike in exactly this situation.
The YZ250 2-stroke at the beginning is not the average sized dirt bike, but probably the tallest made today. I can touch both feet on several of the modern 4-strokes, (granted, not set up for my weight, but neither was my YZ 2-stroke when I got it, but still at least 1" taller.).
What a great vid , now I feel more confident about lowering my honda grom . Thank you 😊
😂 can't believe nobody else responded to this
I ride a slightly lowered 2007 1200GSA and a lowered 300 Beta RR two stroke dual sport. I am able to tackle much harder things with both. The BMW becomes difficult to manage in off camber if you have to stop. The Beta was harder to do pivot turns as a taller bike doing single track. I don't think I will ever buy a bike again without budgeting a custom suspension in the price of the bike. I will buy a less capable bike and do the suspension before buying a more "Capable bike".
Should YOU lower your motorcycle? Probably not. Should you have a professional lower your motorcycle? Yes, if you want your bike lowered!
I bought an aprilia ETV 1000 Caponord from a guy a foot taller than me. He jad raised the seat with dogbones and i couldn't find the regular ones to replace them... So i went with lowering bones, dropped the forks and inch through the yoke and its much lower but still tips in like it did before. And i can flat foot on both sides as opposed to tippietoes on one... No complaints here
I just dropped off my new 2023 KTM 350 xc-f at the shop to install a Kouba Link for starters to see how I feel. They will adjust fork height and sag and dial it in for 190lbs. I'm 5'9". The stock seat height is 37.5 and I have a 32" inseam. On the seat I'm barely touching extreme tippy toes. Super uncomfortable. I'll ride it when it's done and next step would be to purchase a new low seat if I want to go lower. I'm 52 and a slower single track rider in the trees. I want to be comfortable on my first new bike since 1990. Comfortable equals confidence equals fun!! That's how I see it.
Never knew there’s a stigma around lowering a bike. Jeez.
I have been riding tall dirt bikes my whole life, always using rock, stumps and anything else to dismount . Mounting was always easy because I would have my left boot on the peg and then throwing my other leg over it. For my 64th birthday I bought a new 250 and after two years had M9 Suspension out or Redmend Or. lower my bike. Why the hell didn’t I do this 30 years ago! I don’t motor cross but I ride the hell out of the Pacific Northwest trails and sand dunes on the coast…
I ride a KTM 690 SMCR with a 35.04 seat height. I'm 5'7 with a 30 inch inseam. I bought a OEM preload adjuster that KTM sells so now I can crank up or down the preload with ease. I try not to change the height too much though, maybe an inch or so. It also lets me increase the preload easily if I'm carrying luggage or a passenger.
As a 5'2" guy, I lower my bikes so that I can just barely touch my toes on both sides at same time for balance when stopped. I will never be able to completely flat foot a bike unless I don't care that it only 3 inches left of ground clearance. While everyone likes to think they are champion riders, the actual reality is that the top 5-10% of motorcycle hardware performance, whether off road or road, is only usable by 2% of riders anyways. Give most motorcycle riders a championship motorcycle, and they still won't win any races, so the normal tall guys who say suck it up are actually full of crap since they generally can't use all their bike's performance potential either. Therefore, changing the geometry to the point it might affect bike hardware performance negatively by 5-10%, is still meaningless to the 98% of riders anyway, but confidence and comfort of being able to touch both feet down at the same time will get them far more "usable" performance gains. For example, on my off road bike (KLX300) it doesn't matter that I lost a inch or more of the rear suspension travel using links and a 1/2 inch off the front by raising the forks. Why doesn't it matter, because I'm getting older, and I don't do crazy off road stuff that actually needs the extra amount of suspension travel anymore. At my age, one minor accident can be negatively life changing. I can still do the trails and such, I just do them slower, and hence, the suspension is not being pounded on so hard to need the extra inches of travel. A heavy 250lb 6'2" guy telling short people to to suck it up, while he bottoms his suspension out because of his weight is not the person shorter riders should listen to. So for the recommended changes to lower a bike #1 is seat mods. It EASY to remove a seat cover, hit the foam with a belt sander with a 80-120 grit new belt (which take away only a little at time and leaves foam pretty smooth) and re-cover with a staple gun. I can do one now in about two hours and it's rare to have a seat you cant thin at least an inch without affecting butt comfort. The thinner foam will actually be more comfortable than the thicker foam if you sculpt it carefully to your butt. While sculpting seat foam, put seat back on bike and ride around block , then sculpt out any pressure points from foam corners.
I need to rush back into work but I will say this. I have a Trident 660, not too tall but I am tiny. 5’ 7”, inseam about 30-31 tops. I dropped it enough to flat foot it comfortably. I think I sort of enjoyed its real height, looks perkier so I prefer to just ride normally and take my time than have a pretty yet weirdly small looking bike.
Mucho amor before I get fired lmao, peace my guys!
It seems you experienced the exact same thing I'm experiencing, so you recommend not dropping it? I hate being on my tippy toes at red lights
I also have a trident! What did you do to lower it? I dont mind the 1 foot during red light but sometimes it be nice to do two feet!
@@one277 Lowering bones for the rear, and raise the forks a little bit in the triple-clamp, if possible. Don't forget a new adjustable kick stand, as the OEM will likely be too long now.
@@firstnamelastname4749 hey, yep. I am 100% having problems liking the way my Trident looks now that it’s been lowered by 1”. It looks too small for the style which is really weird because I was NOT expecting that. The guy rolled it out of the shop and I instantly knew it wasn’t for me. Next we move on to how I feel on it…because of how the bike looks; and my height, it adds this sense of ‘damn I bet people are looking at me and thinking that I am short’ and I have never felt that before. So I’ve caught myself questioning things I shouldn’t, so it’s going right back up to stock in a week and I’ll be 1 footing/tiptoeing the entire way lol.
@@one277 I took it to the dealership that I bought it from, they fix bikes there so I called and asked if that was something they could do and the guy asked me to come on by (same day!). I don’t know what they did exactly but now the forks have the screws sticking up and before it was flush.
First of all, who is going to know if you don't tell them? Unless you are lowering the unit by 3+ inches, it would be hard to tell without placing another bike right next to the lowered one & a lot of short riders cut the seat foam so that alone is going to be noticed where cutting the sub frame, fitting the proper lowering parts into the shock & forks is very hard to spot. One of the HARDEST parts of lowering with internal spacers into the suspension units is then re-working the valving to keep the upper/soft part of the stroke to be as long as it should be and equally spacing the MID & BOTTOMING parts of the travel to be happening at the right part of the travel. Another thing is that the raising rate of leverage change in the stroke of the swing arm will be different if the shock is shorter, another thing to try and BALANCE to keep the proper feel!
P.S. try to find the shortest sidewall tires that will still deliver the performance you desrie!