Ok... I use Krylon Automotive Primer a lot. I use to for painting and priming my models. Any spray paint, ANY spray paint goes through a period where it does expel gases and solvent, allowing for the curing of the paint. During that time, (3-7 days) you do not want to mess with it. This is why it smells of "spray paint". Not all paints are equal. Especially what comes out of a paint store, or Home Depot or Lowes. The type of base makes all the difference. Flat paint base has more pigments which break the surface area of the acrylic up producing the matte sheen, and consequently, the ability to sand it better. You can achieve this by other means as well, by adding talcum powder to the mix, which will tint the mixture to a more pastel, which does not matter when you are using white. The "Pigment Volume Concentration" (PVC) explained: The sheen of a paint product -- which is a measure of the amount of light it reflects -- is determined by its pigment volume concentration -- or ratio of pigment to other ingredients. The higher the PVC, the flatter the paint; products labeled flat -- as opposed to semigloss or satin -- typically have a PVC of 40 percent. Gloss paint, on the other hand, has a PVC of roughly 15 percent. Consequently, if you want to change a can of paint from gloss to flat, you have to add enough pigment to increase its volume by roughly a quarter. This means that, if you have a gallon of gloss paint, you need to add approximately a quart of pigment to make it flat. When using certain gesso's, their content of pigment is probably low, which gives the paint a higher "plastic-like" quality which is indicative of eggshell or semigloss or gloss finishes. It only means that it is cheap gesso, and isn't worth the "artist" price gauging mark up they put onto it. If you want to make quality gesso, add your own titanium, or marble dust, or taulk to create both a more sand-able and flat finish.
There's a trick I learned from an artist at my college. He would mount heavy duty watercolor paper to wood panels with Gamblin PVA sizing glue, then put 3 coats of the same size on the surface he's painting on. The finish would be archival and as smooth as glass. It would also allow you to completely scrape off wet paint to get back the white canvas, so long as the paint was still wet.
Thank you very much for the information about rustoleum. It is a nice option for those who want a quality surface but are sensitive about the rabbit skins
I use hide glue,marble dust,chalk and lead white for my grounds. I was taught to do this type of ground from the start of my painting when I was a teenager, Ive tried acrylic gesso and it just doesn't "feel" the same under my brush strokes compared to the traditional gesso mix.
inboundnewt I use the same. Either Original Gesso which is Rabbit Skin Glue + Marble Dust + Titanium White, or use a ready made Lead White oil primer by Vasari and Williamsburg. I seal panels with GAC 200 glue from Golden first before priming.
inboundnewt I know it is so true There is a difference in using traditional materials not acrylic. Imagine what people are mission if they only know to use gesso tand the other low quality products they buy in the modern art store,
Stefan Baumann thanks for the tip on using the rustoleum spray primer for color studies. It's so simple, it is one of those "why didn't I think of that" moments. lol
Stefan Baumann Thank you for sharing this awesome and intellectual discussion with us and the rest of the art world. I am an advocate of traditional methods and tools. I like the fact that like the old masters, we discuss and experiment with Alchemy to enhance our oil painting experience.
HELP please... Hello, what do you put on the back of your MDF panels to hang them ? There seems to be no video's on this subject other than how to put them on a wall, i would like to know what is used on the back of the actual board when not in a frame, i use 6mm thick MDF but i have spent dayd and many hours searching the best way and easiest way.. thank you for your time :)
I have been seaching and searching and finally found you Thanks a lots and greetings from Honduras, I have a question it is possible to fix those poor canvas adding more gesso or oil primer? cause I cant find a good price and quality in my country.Thanks again
What's your experience with the durability and archival aspects of using rustoleum on board? Or is the idea that if it lasts your lifetime it has done its job?
He claims it is suitable for long term out of doors use on metal, so oodles more durable than most things... Might be true, though there is off-gassing from masonite, and who knows how it will all last. The other thing he has said is, well, if you are the next Michelangelo, and you choice sucks, the conservators will have to figure it out, let them worry about it. :). A lot of pros are using this stuff.
Hi. Late to the party here. Thank you for this tip. Can Rust-Oleum be used on canvas boards (the ones with cardboard) just as they would on hardboards?
Yeah, not sure about the spray.....are you thinking about the archival properties of the ground. If you make a great painting using 'industrial spray', can't think of a better word, for a ground, will that last more than 5-50 years? I recommend sticking to the traditional methods - go to your nearest old masters collection for proof of that.
Hi Stefan I have 2 questions for you, I need to prepare the mixture of rabbit skin glue, marble dust and titanium white. For some reason it's impossible for me to find rabbit skin glue , so I need to know if there is any animal glue replacement for it, fish glue is available in my country. Question number2 : Rustoleume is no longer available as well, is it possible to use another type of Auto primer spray? Thank you for your amazing vid, and Hope to answer my questions soon. From Iran
Rabbit skin glue is not recommended. Lots of amazing technical info available about painting and materials on Facebook group “Best Painting Practices”.
Oooooff, never thin gesso with water, it's a very common practice but it loses its integrity... maybe old marble glue gesso, but the new plastic stuff hates water
Looking around there's not much information as to the difference in surface behavior various gessos offer and it's kinda frustrating because so far I've tried a couple of pre-made cheap framed canvases, canvas that's been gessoed, some locally made commercial gesso on cheap canvas pad sheets and as an extra layer on the pre-gessoed canvas as well as one raw piece of cotton canvas that I gessoed with a homemade recipe I found online. Now in every case the surface was this plastic kinda thing or in the case of those canvas pads they were like plaster gauze (which is what they probably really are, the weave is that thin). Also, I don't know if I sanded these too much but each one I sanded (either all layers or just the last) the surface was very smooth. The problem I have with all these is that the oil paint, thinned with some Sansodor or Gamblin, would "skate" on the surface. It's hard to put down a wash or glaze that doesn't just slide off unless the brush doesn't go over the same place twice. This makes constructing an under drawing impossible, let alone build up some tone. What's weirder is that the paint (Burnt Umber for this phase) would take close to a day to get tacky to even dare go for more strokes. Using paint straight out of the tube is pretty bad for transparent pigments as well since they glide off too. Also, the more I scrub paint on and/or wipe it off to correct the gesture or decide on what to paint (going for fantasy character studies) the smoother and shinier the surface gets making the paint not stick any more (the little it did). Now here's the weird thing, the panel I made with some cheap raw cotton canvas (5 euro per square meter) that I gessoed with a recipe I tried from the internet (I think it used PVA glue, water and plaster) created a surface that's a bit smooth yet retains it's texture. Also the feel of the gesso is kinda "dry", not like rough and grainy plaster that will fall off, but also not a smooth glossy plastic like everything else I've tried. The paint stuck on awesomely, I could use a glaze, control it's transparency more, scrub it and go over it with a second wash without much interaction with the layer below and the paint (thinned with Gamblin) dried in a few minutes, so I don't stop painting. I don't know if along with the gesso the fact that I glued the canvas on a panel first and kept it very taught has anything to do with it. I put on 3 layers that were sanded, but I don't remember exactly what I did or the exact recipe for the gesso. I think that what makes this type of surface good for me is the fact that it's more "dry" (it's probably a little more porous than the slightly pricier but pre-gessoed canvas). There's a bit of drag that helps me draw better, takes the paint off the brush and keeps it on the surface. Even tho I can go over the first layer with another wash in a few minutes to darken it, with some scrubbing I can manipulate the edges even a couple of hours later. In other words this type of surface is great for me, and I've been trying to replicate it, yet better canvas, pre-made gesso etc just don't cut it (shouldn't they?). Am I in error for liking this surface and how are these kind of surfaces obtained? Any commercial gesso that's kinda like this?
I have a question about the Rust-Oleum automobile primer, I happened to have some in my garage, and I was wondering if you have any insight on how long your painting might last if all I did was spray it on unprimed birch?
I want to paint over used box frame canvas pictures I found in the thrift shop. What sort of cheap primer can I use over them, that'll cover the original 'art'? Thanks.
White spray? But is it a normal spray or a special one? You think gesso isn't gud enough. Oil prime is too expensive. And that mix you suggested marble dust, titanium white and something else... ? I am a bit confused. When should I use spray when should I use the mix. Is there any difference? Thanks
Hi Stefan, Greetings from Venezuela! I have one question for you. I need to prepare some wood panels for my oil paintings. Sadly in my country I can no longer fin Gesso, and stretch canvas is just ridiculously expensive. So I went ahead and bought a large birchwood panel and had it cut into several pieces. Now I need to seal it and prime it. After seeing this video you talk about using auto primer, how would you prepare the wood prior to applying the primer? Should I varnish both sides and edges and prime the side I will be painting on? or should I just varnish the back and edges and prime the front. I ask this because I don't know if the primer will adhere to the varnish. Thanks a lot, your videos are amazing.
Carlos Bermudez if you are going to prime on Masonite or chip board the spry primer is great. Birch wood panels have wood fiber and would need to be sanded between spraying and soon the fiber will even out. you can make your own gesso by using rabbit skin glue and chalk. I hope this was helpful
I bought some MDF boards yesterday at Home Depot. Are THOSE Ok? Multi density fibreboard. Also, I never knew we are supposed to prime canvas boards, as I figured that they ARE already primed. But, if they only last 10 or 15 years, shouldn't we NOT use them?
@@tangents6299 make sure to cover all of 6 sides of the board. There are chemicals on the mdf that can leach out so you need to cover it with pva sizing but the pva needs to be ph neutral. Gamblin pva is ph neutral. There also is another type of brand of sizing, Golden GAC 100.
what is the best way to go about painting over a painting I wasn't satissfied with on wood. Do I sand and Gesso or can I just mount paper on and paint on that?
acrylic gesso isn't latex paint, and isn't related to latex paint in any way. Acrylic gesso is acrylic polymer. latex paint is made of propylene, vinyl acetate, propylene oxide, propylene glycol, acrylate, and aluminum....and it isn't suitable for anything art related
5:40 - masters in the old days used "Gesso made of marble dust, rabbit skin glue, and titanium white." - Likely LEAD white, prior to 1900 or so.
Certainly wouldn't have been Titanium.
Ok... I use Krylon Automotive Primer a lot. I use to for painting and priming my models. Any spray paint, ANY spray paint goes through a period where it does expel gases and solvent, allowing for the curing of the paint. During that time, (3-7 days) you do not want to mess with it. This is why it smells of "spray paint". Not all paints are equal. Especially what comes out of a paint store, or Home Depot or Lowes. The type of base makes all the difference. Flat paint base has more pigments which break the surface area of the acrylic up producing the matte sheen, and consequently, the ability to sand it better. You can achieve this by other means as well, by adding talcum powder to the mix, which will tint the mixture to a more pastel, which does not matter when you are using white.
The "Pigment Volume Concentration" (PVC) explained:
The sheen of a paint product -- which is a measure of the amount of light it reflects -- is determined by its pigment volume concentration -- or ratio of pigment to other ingredients. The higher the PVC, the flatter the paint; products labeled flat -- as opposed to semigloss or satin -- typically have a PVC of 40 percent. Gloss paint, on the other hand, has a PVC of roughly 15 percent. Consequently, if you want to change a can of paint from gloss to flat, you have to add enough pigment to increase its volume by roughly a quarter. This means that, if you have a gallon of gloss paint, you need to add approximately a quart of pigment to make it flat.
When using certain gesso's, their content of pigment is probably low, which gives the paint a higher "plastic-like" quality which is indicative of eggshell or semigloss or gloss finishes. It only means that it is cheap gesso, and isn't worth the "artist" price gauging mark up they put onto it. If you want to make quality gesso, add your own titanium, or marble dust, or taulk to create both a more sand-able and flat finish.
I sprayed hardboard with Rustoleum. Left for three days. When I began painting with oils the rustoleum came off down to bare wood.
sand the board lightly before spraying.
I had this happen too, did you figure it out?
dont stop making these. fantastic
Rost-oleum!!! Good to know, hopefully we know enough about it that the paint won't flake off in the future...
There's a trick I learned from an artist at my college. He would mount heavy duty watercolor paper to wood panels with Gamblin PVA sizing glue, then put 3 coats of the same size on the surface he's painting on. The finish would be archival and as smooth as glass. It would also allow you to completely scrape off wet paint to get back the white canvas, so long as the paint was still wet.
TheMasterTelevision I'm glad that we are having a conversation about all of the methods that we can use
Hi, do you mean by that, that the trick is to paint on 3x primed watercolour paper - which has been glued on a panel? Just checking, thanks!
@@robertframpton7865 it'd be interesting to see how it would look to varnish atop a watercolor on thick, good paper, glued on a panel/wood.
Wow what a great tip. I'm not going to fight with gesso anymore. Thanks Stefan!
Thank you very much for the information about rustoleum. It is a nice option for those who want a quality surface but are sensitive about the rabbit skins
Hey, I used those Rust-Oleum like sprayers for getting toned ( black ) primers, they are good!
This is exactly what i needed to hear today, thank you!
Awesomeness!
You are just awesome. Great tip! Thank you!! from Canada
misslori66 Thanks so much Please watch part two that should be up later this afternoon
Thankyou so much!!!Much needed, and appreciated. Kudos!!
Your videos are so informative. Thank you. They answer the questions I have and I am very grateful to you and your team.
Rust-Oleum auto primer for prepping an oil painting surface. Simple and demystified. Thanks!
Your so welcome
maybe you can make a video about your materials? love your art so much! colorpaper princess
I just ordered marble dust and rabbit skin glue, and so much looking foreward to make my own gesso
IIRC the Old Masters never added Titanium White to Gesso. They always used Lead White.
Just found your videos, I really like your instructions.
Checkout my new video on RUclips
wow! thks for this! I'll try the automotive primer :D
Cool !
I use hide glue,marble dust,chalk and lead white for my grounds. I was taught to do this type of ground from the start of my painting when I was a teenager, Ive tried acrylic gesso and it just doesn't "feel" the same under my brush strokes compared to the traditional gesso mix.
inboundnewt I use the same. Either Original Gesso which is Rabbit Skin Glue + Marble Dust + Titanium White, or use a ready made Lead White oil primer by Vasari and Williamsburg. I seal panels with GAC 200 glue from Golden first before priming.
inboundnewt I know it is so true There is a difference in using traditional materials not acrylic. Imagine what people are mission if they only know to use gesso tand the other low quality products they buy in the modern art store,
RedSoxKal See part three of this conversation
Stefan Baumann thanks for the tip on using the rustoleum spray primer for color studies. It's so simple, it is one of those "why didn't I think of that" moments. lol
Stefan Baumann Thank you for sharing this awesome and intellectual discussion with us and the rest of the art world. I am an advocate of traditional methods and tools. I like the fact that like the old masters, we discuss and experiment with Alchemy to enhance our oil painting experience.
Stefan, do you have any thoughts on Michael Harding Non-Absorbent Acrylic Primer?
HELP please... Hello, what do you put on the back of your MDF panels to hang them ? There seems to be no video's on this subject other than how to put them on a wall, i would like to know what is used on the back of the actual board when not in a frame, i use 6mm thick MDF but i have spent dayd and many hours searching the best way and easiest way.. thank you for your time :)
I’ve wondered about this, too!
No one has answered. But wouldn't it be better to frame the flat board rather than to just adding a hook?
The hardboard at major hardware stores is “tempered” even though he said untemoered.. is it ok?
I have been seaching and searching and finally found you Thanks a lots and greetings from Honduras, I have a question it is possible to fix those poor canvas adding more gesso or oil primer? cause I cant find a good price and quality in my country.Thanks again
Can you tell me please,a good gesso fon eggtempera? (egg yolk with white vinegar)
How long does rustoleum takes to dry. The one i have found says 20 -30 minutes.
What's your experience with the durability and archival aspects of using rustoleum on board? Or is the idea that if it lasts your lifetime it has done its job?
He claims it is suitable for long term out of doors use on metal, so oodles more durable than most things... Might be true, though there is off-gassing from masonite, and who knows how it will all last. The other thing he has said is, well, if you are the next Michelangelo, and you choice sucks, the conservators will have to figure it out, let them worry about it. :). A lot of pros are using this stuff.
Would applying gamblin pva sizing front and back before the rustoleum make it more archival on wood surface?
Hi. Late to the party here. Thank you for this tip. Can Rust-Oleum be used on canvas boards (the ones with cardboard) just as they would on hardboards?
Yes but not stretched
canvas
@@StefanBaumann thank you.
Love these videos... Spraying with the automative primer, is this very long lasting same as gesso?
Yeah, not sure about the spray.....are you thinking about the archival properties of the ground. If you make a great painting using 'industrial spray', can't think of a better word, for a ground, will that last more than 5-50 years? I recommend sticking to the traditional methods - go to your nearest old masters collection for proof of that.
Can this masonite prepped board work to make collages with paper and acrylic?
You suggested the spray-on rustoleum primer, so I went out to get it. I do acrylic painting, would the spray work? Or go back to gesso prime?
Can you use Restorume on canvas?
Thank you for the informative vid, do you need to spray both sides of your MDF board with the rust oleum please?
Yes I believe so to prevent chemicals leaching off and also to prevent moisture.
can i paint acrylics over rustoleum auto primer??
The old masters used Marble dust and rabbit glue but what did they know? I use Rustoleum !
how should I prime a MDF panel
Hi Stefan
I have 2 questions for you, I need to prepare the mixture of rabbit skin glue, marble dust and titanium white. For some reason it's impossible for me to find rabbit skin glue , so I need to know if there is any animal glue replacement for it, fish glue is available in my country.
Question number2 : Rustoleume is no longer available as well, is it possible to use another type of Auto primer spray?
Thank you for your amazing vid, and Hope to answer my questions soon.
From Iran
They sell it on Amazon
Rabbit skin glue is not recommended. Lots of amazing technical info available about painting and materials on Facebook group “Best Painting Practices”.
Oooooff, never thin gesso with water, it's a very common practice but it loses its integrity... maybe old marble glue gesso, but the new plastic stuff hates water
Do you use the Rustoleum Primer on Stretched Canvas's as well?
Where do you get your leather vests? I'm loving it lol.
David M. A company in Medford Oregon classed Ravernswood They hand make them just for me
Stefan Baumann Ah, cool. They look nice.
Can the Rustoleum be sprayed on to any canvas (I'm a newbie) and does it need to be sanded like gesso? I am using oil paint.
Corners chip after years though. I did that.
Looking around there's not much information as to the difference in surface behavior various gessos offer and it's kinda frustrating because so far I've tried a couple of pre-made cheap framed canvases, canvas that's been gessoed, some locally made commercial gesso on cheap canvas pad sheets and as an extra layer on the pre-gessoed canvas as well as one raw piece of cotton canvas that I gessoed with a homemade recipe I found online.
Now in every case the surface was this plastic kinda thing or in the case of those canvas pads they were like plaster gauze (which is what they probably really are, the weave is that thin). Also, I don't know if I sanded these too much but each one I sanded (either all layers or just the last) the surface was very smooth. The problem I have with all these is that the oil paint, thinned with some Sansodor or Gamblin, would "skate" on the surface. It's hard to put down a wash or glaze that doesn't just slide off unless the brush doesn't go over the same place twice. This makes constructing an under drawing impossible, let alone build up some tone. What's weirder is that the paint (Burnt Umber for this phase) would take close to a day to get tacky to even dare go for more strokes. Using paint straight out of the tube is pretty bad for transparent pigments as well since they glide off too. Also, the more I scrub paint on and/or wipe it off to correct the gesture or decide on what to paint (going for fantasy character studies) the smoother and shinier the surface gets making the paint not stick any more (the little it did).
Now here's the weird thing, the panel I made with some cheap raw cotton canvas (5 euro per square meter) that I gessoed with a recipe I tried from the internet (I think it used PVA glue, water and plaster) created a surface that's a bit smooth yet retains it's texture. Also the feel of the gesso is kinda "dry", not like rough and grainy plaster that will fall off, but also not a smooth glossy plastic like everything else I've tried. The paint stuck on awesomely, I could use a glaze, control it's transparency more, scrub it and go over it with a second wash without much interaction with the layer below and the paint (thinned with Gamblin) dried in a few minutes, so I don't stop painting. I don't know if along with the gesso the fact that I glued the canvas on a panel first and kept it very taught has anything to do with it. I put on 3 layers that were sanded, but I don't remember exactly what I did or the exact recipe for the gesso.
I think that what makes this type of surface good for me is the fact that it's more "dry" (it's probably a little more porous than the slightly pricier but pre-gessoed canvas). There's a bit of drag that helps me draw better, takes the paint off the brush and keeps it on the surface. Even tho I can go over the first layer with another wash in a few minutes to darken it, with some scrubbing I can manipulate the edges even a couple of hours later. In other words this type of surface is great for me, and I've been trying to replicate it, yet better canvas, pre-made gesso etc just don't cut it (shouldn't they?). Am I in error for liking this surface and how are these kind of surfaces obtained? Any commercial gesso that's kinda like this?
I have a question about the Rust-Oleum automobile primer, I happened to have some in my garage, and I was wondering if you have any insight on how long your painting might last if all I did was spray it on unprimed birch?
It could last indefinitely. A hundred years, easily, if you take good care of it.
I want to paint over used box frame canvas pictures I found in the thrift shop. What sort of cheap primer can I use over them, that'll cover the original 'art'? Thanks.
Why untempored board?
What about a 11x14 artist ?😃
If a 9×12 artist . When I want large pieces of art. Won't me work be difficult to reproduce. Because it's too pixelated
You can seal the cardboard panels
Do you use spray? ! What kind of spray? ! Does it work! ?
Yes Spray Damar
White spray? But is it a normal spray or a special one? You think gesso isn't gud enough. Oil prime is too expensive. And that mix you suggested marble dust, titanium white and something else... ? I am a bit confused. When should I use spray when should I use the mix. Is there any difference? Thanks
Hi Stefan, Greetings from Venezuela!
I have one question for you. I need to prepare some wood panels for my oil paintings. Sadly in my country I can no longer fin Gesso, and stretch canvas is just ridiculously expensive. So I went ahead and bought a large birchwood panel and had it cut into several pieces. Now I need to seal it and prime it. After seeing this video you talk about using auto primer, how would you prepare the wood prior to applying the primer? Should I varnish both sides and edges and prime the side I will be painting on? or should I just varnish the back and edges and prime the front. I ask this because I don't know if the primer will adhere to the varnish.
Thanks a lot, your videos are amazing.
Carlos Bermudez if you are going to prime on Masonite or chip board the spry primer is great. Birch wood panels have wood fiber and would need to be sanded between spraying and soon the fiber will even out. you can make your own gesso by using rabbit skin glue and chalk. I hope this was helpful
8:50
automotive primer in lieu of gesso on board !?
Craqueleure ?! Longevity ?
Can I paint on Rust Oleum primed panel with acrylic?
No, rust-oleum spray paint is oil based I believe
the only rustoleum or krylon is enamel that I can find
do you spray both sides with the rust-Oleum?
I would. I found out that the board bows if I dont!
I bought some MDF boards yesterday at Home Depot. Are THOSE Ok? Multi density fibreboard. Also, I never knew we are supposed to prime canvas boards, as I figured that they ARE already primed. But, if they only last 10 or 15 years, shouldn't we NOT use them?
MDF is a terrible surface, that if using water on it, the surface will peel, it's not a strong surface. true is it's crap.
You can first try using gamblin pva sizing and then apply gesso or rustoleum.
@@noname-nu6oo thank you
@@tangents6299 make sure to cover all of 6 sides of the board. There are chemicals on the mdf that can leach out so you need to cover it with pva sizing but the pva needs to be ph neutral. Gamblin pva is ph neutral. There also is another type of brand of sizing, Golden GAC 100.
@@noname-nu6oo ty, I switched to water colors and acrylic recently, wanna return to oils, thanks for good tips!
can Rust-Oleum Enamel Spray Paint work?
No. Use gesso. It’s made for artists painting on canvas or panel. Rustoleum is not made to be used in combination with artist oil paints.
I also like 12x12 . 😅
what is the best way to go about painting over a painting I wasn't satissfied with on wood. Do I sand and Gesso or can I just mount paper on and paint on that?
just get a new canvas
My gesso just peeled right off the surface
Rabbits everywhere applaud the new acrylic gesso.
I've been using cardboard boxes just recently. Canvas is just too expensive
I’m English so I don’t know what “bisk” is - anyone care to translate for me?
I get what he's saying but I love acrylic gesso. Hearing this pains my soul a bit 🥲
～gesso～
acrylic gesso isn't latex paint, and isn't related to latex paint in any way. Acrylic gesso is acrylic polymer. latex paint is made of propylene, vinyl acetate, propylene oxide, propylene glycol, acrylate, and aluminum....and it isn't suitable for anything art related
And my point is use a panel, spray it with other primer, and paint.
seriously?? Car primer? Now, after all these years - have you learnt more?