Nice bit of old fashioned staged filming with Mundy and Hassan giving an overview of the techy bits of their beautiful design. Very formal and quaint but thank goodness these two men came together Mr Baxter. They were a great credit to the UK motor manufacturers who were second to none in the world in this particular decade.
Thankyou so much for uploading this film. As a passionate Jaguar V12 nutcase, I shall cherish Hassan and Mundy enthusing over their creation. I especially loved the wry smile on Mundy's face when he said "...in the future, when they get tougher, we're all going to have problems!!" commenting on emissions regulations. Superb Film !
After several years of ownership of a 1986 Jaguar Sovereign HE V12 - no repair of any kind ever done to the engine, heads never removed, all original internals, oil consumption so low that the change of level on the dipstick between changes is barely noticeable, even with the relatively large lubrication area of 12 cylinder bores, indicating outstanding material quality and manufacture. No other car I have ever owned used anywhere near as little oil as the Jaguar V12. 3 compressions down now, one recently become serious because of valve seat dropping, time to take the heads off. No big deal after 30 years. As one other commenter said - it's the external bits that let these engines down, and people not maintaining cooling systems, so the engines overheat. That's when the valve seats start to move. By far the best engine I have ever owned, in by far the best car I have ever owned or driven - and that's not a small number. The range of abilities of the V12 Jags is outstanding - near silence, almost turbine smoothness, with no vibration from the engine ever felt in the car, top end response and acceleration that surprise people accustomed to later German V12s. Still one of the best engines to drive, with its superb broad spread of torque. No other car I have ever driven - English, German, Italian, American, Australian (I live in Adelaide) has ever come anywhere near the driving quality of the Jaguar V12.
+18tangles I had a 1964 2.4 MKll with Solex carbs...I threw them in the bin and fitted a 3.4 inlet manifold and SU HD6's with TL needles and red springs (Advice from SU in Brum:) and I think Jaguar went on to use HS6 carbs at a later date...Back in those days Duckhams Q20/50 came out and was as cheap as chips although bought out by Castrol now I believe...Happy days.
1994 xjs 6l v12. i run it hard and it never complains.had to do a bit of maintenance to him because of neglect and poor workmanship from p.o.but nigel's never left me walking. wouldn't trade him for anu other ride.btw....he's not a garage dweller. i drive him every day cold or hot but i avoid rain and snow. after all....when you are retired you don't have to leave the house unless you want to and when the weather is for shit...i take out the jeep ;-) i like my bodywork in one piece....don't much care if the jeep gets a knock or two.
94xjs6l.runs well.125k mi. i run the hell out of mine and no serious problems. it has never left me walking. a bit frustrated at times but never a walk required. i highly recommend this engine for performance applications.easily tuned and responsive to changes.
How many miles? And why are you bragging about an engine being reliable and well-built and well-engineered in a "high-end" car? Engines are supposed to be reliable and durable. You're bragging about competence. Not "excellence". And what the fuck is "driving quality" and how many cars have you actually driven? It's not hard to be the very best of a very few.
I used to work at the Jaguar Engine and Transmission Pant in Sandy Lane, Radford, Coventry, in 1980 until I got the sack in Dec 81 on account of my punk rock coloured hair. I remember as a trainee working on parts of the V12 and the straight 6. I have always admired Jaguars, and if I were well off I should like to own one, especially an older model. What marvelous engineering! Interesting to see Raymond Baxter who used to host the programme Tomorrow's World on the BBC. Nice one for sharing.
Perfect interview with perfect, nee, humble English gentlemen real engineers who ALL convey factual and valuable information - not hype or sensationalism. Oh for these days...sadly gone, but here, not forgotten. Thanks for posting, Regards Mark in the UK
Dennis Cat I find myself thinking about a lot of double entendres at Jaguar xmas parties, just looking at the finer ladies in attendance and making veiled comments about lively combustion chambers, length of intake runners and differences between bore and stroke...
samsonian Well, be sure to check the oil in the rear end. It's easy on the ones with high mileage, but some of the newer models will probably give you some trouble.
Gold. Great bit of historical film. Those chaps are wonderful, and great to hear Raymond Baxter too. And of course possibly one of the finest engines ever made.
I like the fact they speak about technical details so much. Now not even in races people speak about technical stuff.. not to mention normal cars with their fancy automatizations and usb inputs and screens.
Excellent. I remember Raymond Baxter from Tomorrows World, going back to the 1970’s. I did an engineering degree at Jaguar in the mid ‘80’s’. Worked in a few V12’s at the time. Wish I’d seen this interview back then.
That Ignition system went from Lucas " Opus" ( mechanics referred to it a "'opeless" ) through to Magnet Marelli similar to the system fitted to Ferrari V12's , and I remember the first time that I changed the plugs on an early carburretted V12 that it took almost five hours, and by the time that I had learned the tricks of the trade, I had the plug change down to twenty minutes. The engine was beautiful with fuel injection, and in the earlier carburretted form. I remember single handedly taking out, rebuilding, and re-installing many of these engines over the years, the only fragile parts were the exhaust manifolds, made from thin walled close grained cast iron. The present day Aston Martin V12's owe everything to these two great Engineers, Harry Mundy, and Walter Hassan, who in my opinion did MORE for the British Empire, than the sum total of it's Kings and Queens.
Built hundreds of them on the track at Radford Coventry 1985 - 88. Drives you mad eventually. The track went squeak squeak and the airlines leaked all day and all night...Every one of them hand built. Automation was a multi spindle airbrace for doing the sump. The pillar drills dated from 1914. British industry at its best...
Spencer. Can you help me track down a mystery engine code etched on my 1991 TWR 6.3 V12 engine. J/S 6L 38 DEV I have contacted Jaguar UK, USA and the Jaguar museum and no one seems to recognize it. I am pretty sure it is a Walkinshaw engine
Sir William Lyons put together (in my humble opinion) the very best team of engineers, designers, stylists and crafts men and women in the UK car industry at that time. But then came British Leyland.... And oh Lordy, things they did go wrong.
I love hearing engineers explain their thought process that went into designing something like an engine, and the Jaguar V12 is one incredible engine. Sadly some of the parts that are mounted to it make it seem that the engine is unreliable, which is simply not true. The issues the v12 Jaguars had was related to either the parts on the engine, or a poorly maintained cooling system. Over heat one of these, drops a valve seat and likely takes the piston with it, if not the head as well.
You need to own one that has been taken care of. As I just said mine has been running flawlessly for the last 200,000 miles. . . I also own several others that very rarely have issues. I would recommend buying the 94 majestics. The only thing they had issues with were faulty relays which were easy and cheap to replace. The 5.3 v-12 in the jag was one of the best engines ever built. The issue is people are to stupid to maintain them properly.
I used to work for a guy who talked fondly about an old jaguar car he owned, after listening to him talk about his car for a while I asked him was it reliable, Oh No! he said but it was a Jaguar.
I looked at a early V-12 with a buddy while in H. School, I think it was a "New- XJS". The dealer showroom had the hood up and it was our first look at a V-12. I noted to my buddy I could only spot 3 of 12 spark plugs looking from above, tubes, hoses, and wires everywhere. But this was likely 1977 ish and "smog" equipment was at it's pinnacle of cluster clutter.
Gents. I so WANT Mr. Baxter's hair job. A substantial, elegant, coiffure resembling the top of a bed frame, if I must say so... Controlled and presented as though it is a wildlife-like extension of the scalp. It gives a Bohemian, but mannerly, counterpoint to his oh-so British manner. I stand corrected about the carburetors - Yes, they are Strombergs at least as presented here.
Excellent informative video. Shows how a great deal of thought went into the design. So it started off with 272 hp. What have people been able to do with it, torque wise as well as HP?
Now we can research and develop in virtual. Such a time saver and electronic control of fuel air delivery. Valve timing and exhaust system variables. Every rpm and temperature range can be tuned for exactly what is required via sensor servos. Who knows what the next improvement might be made next. Jolly Good! If one builds a better mouse trap, many buyers shall seek your firm for orders.
Hmmmm, don't agree with you SuperStig23. I put my engine together in 2005 and it' still going strong without missing a beat in 10 years! Have you ever experienced the smooth linear power delivery of this V12 unit let alone the silence? I am actually wondering if you're an armchair critic without the knowledge of these glorious engines. As for your views on the 6 cylinder XK unit, this motor too was a tour de force when released in 1948. These are mechanical pieces of art which were a true masterpiece of design and execution and thoroughly bang up to date in their respective eras. A Ferrari V12 was and still is a ludicrously expensive power unit where Jaguar bought the fabulous and exotic V12 to the masses for little money. It's all relative my friend. Jaguar, for a small British manufacturer punched well above their weight offering champagne machines for beer money...
RCBM Superstig is talking bollocks! A Ferrari 250 produced 220 BHP, not sure how that is twice the power. Lamborghini started building his own cars, because his Ferraris never worked.
Its been running for ten years? Continually? WOW. The way you Jaguar fanboys brag about your engines and cars - supposedly "premium" in both cases - actually running and driving for "years" after dumping ridiculous amounts of money into "restoring" and/or "rebuilding" engines/vehicles that apparently were worn out ALSO within "years" is hilarious.
@@deeremeyer1749 well then since you've got such a big mouth stuck on the front of that so called face of yours why don't you just go ahead and give us all an education then?
I want one under my coffee table. Clarkson really should be a decor decorator for gear heads. Unfortunately I live in the US and jaguar parts here are rare, expensive or nonexistent.
Amazing. Raymond Baxter was an RAF fighter pilot in the war and an excellent engineer and presenter. The interview shows no disrespect for the viewers' intelligence. Why did we lose such quality discourse in favour of that twat Clarkson and his dumb - ass style of infantilism?
+kts68 Unfortunately we have collectively lost most of our engineering talent. Back in the day, most people would know how to maintain a car or anything mechanical. Not the case now and probably never will be again. So out of that vacuum springs twats like Clarkson so entertain the dumb masses.
I love that old-school bullsh*t! Single camshaft? No, single camshaft PER BANK which means TWO camshafts. For balance, economy and performance, a V8 wins every time. But thanks for uploading, a piece of history is preserved.
@Briggsquantum Its a custom design that I had a mechanic do for me :) they are side draft webbers, they mount up very similar to the Strombergs, slight changes needed to be made obviously but so far it has worked out amazingly well, they hold a tune awesome and I almost never have an issue. I don't have all the specs in my head but i can always go out and take a look :)
Its on the 74 model jag 5.3 v12. After i had an engine fire because of the strombergs slopping gas onto the manifold i decided that I had to switch to the webbers
Well this is the V12 engine used until the late 90s. XJR6 or 8 produce 660 and 750 hp (race cars). But these guys used 4valves/cylinder (i believe). I know TWR's Touring car XJS still used 2v/c but I can't find the output power. It was fast, check it out. Jaguar used this engine in the last XJ V12 model, with +320hp I believe.
IDF's are a non-progressive two barrel Weber, and six are needed on the V-12. So which Weber model are you using, if you need only four of them? And do they install on the stock manifold? Humour me. Tell me the truth. I'm interested.
Amazing motor stretched to 7 litres this aluminium never aluminum baby pushed the XJR 9 and XJR 12's to two Le Mans wins. Two 5 litre DOHC V12 fuel injected motors were also built for the aborted XJ13 racer, one of them turned up on e-bay in Germany some years ago.
I'm thinking about adding a 89' XJS V12 to my collection. Car has under 50k miles and runs ok. If I end up getting it the first thing will be fuel lines and all fluids (coolant, oil, brake fluid, etc). I'm having a hard time finding out what is the weak link in the cooling system. Is it the radiator or is it from improper coolant changes?
+DIY Dan the v12 runs incredibly hot as it is, even so if all the cooling system is in good order its sufficient. However it is advisable to invest in better fans and even extra vents to relieve the hot air.
Maybe a bit late for you - your To Do list is good, but also ensure that you change every one of the coolant hoses that is not still in practically as new condition.
Download a copy of Kirby Palm's Experience In A Book. Plenty of good advice there about the V12 cooling system, including how to ensure that it is filled properly. If you follow the manufacturer's instructions you may leave air pockets in the coolant.
I shall be posting a 1989 XJS with 45k miles and in excellent condition. The owner who is quite wealthy bought it 6 years ago and almost never drove it, and this ended up causing water to condense the tank so now the tank will be dropped and cleaned out and the car will get a clean bill of health before I post it on Ebay. The lucky buyer will have to come to South Carolina to drive it home,
Perhaps some would say that the fact two of the 'XK' engine six cylinder cylinder blocks were 'strapped' on to a common crankcase might just have had something to do with the choice of V 12. As a certain My Lyons was well known for re-using elements of (a) previous model(s) in a new one to reduce costs ? . . . !
If an American designer says he's using a SOHC for the first time, he means he's only ever used cam-in-block before. When these fellows say they're using SOHC for the first time, they mean they've only made DOHC engines before.
@Ricardo Ellison Worked on a lot of jags then? Lots of the v12s? I am American btw. When I say shitty oil I mean the wrong weight, they need the right weight to run right. Gas is very important to, they require high octane fuel. Keeping the vacuum lines lubed is very simple, only takes 15 minutes to do them all. And yes i like their precision, i treat them in a precise manner and they don't break.
Rather good show, chaps. So Mr. Baxter is the Mr. Clarkson of the 1960/70s, with out the wit and sarcasm, is he?. Splendid. "AluMinium" please Mr. Mundy. We sha'nt need to stoop to the lows of the Americans, now, do we sir. Jolly good chaps.
Clarkson couldn't lace Raymond Baxter's boots, he's a complete ignoramus by comparison. As far as the "Aloominum" thing goes, this is plainly a promo aimed at the Americans, who went on to love the cars powered by this engine.
If you knew anything about the v-12s then you would know that the main issues they had were with the stromberg carburretors and the electronics. I replaced mine with a webber kit. Never have an issue. jag also solved a lot of the problems when they switched to EFI. They are simply engines that you have to take care of, I don;t hit mine with a hammer. . .
Very clever men in the decade the V12 was developed. Pity the likes of Clarkson and other self serving TV car presenters couldn't have spent a week in their company to appreciate what the likes of Mundy and Hassan contributed to motor car development.
Which is why a lot of the cars still out on the road with that heavy engine are now fitted with those new fangled after market stiffening bars to keep the engine from shaking too much & wrecking its mounts so often. Thanks.
Josef Venport I think so. I love them but only enthusiasts will decide for a real and classic Jaguar which has run ot of existence in 2008 when the X350 has been replaced with the modern X351. The brand is finaly finacially successful but also dead un terms of tradition and sense for the heritage. Dead. Now Jag is equal to all other zero charisma brand. Simply prositituted to the mass market to match a clientel who has no idea of the brand and no heart for tradition.
Josef Venport About right but this mess started some years before the Indians took over. The "Diesel and station wagon using cheap and fake interior for the mass market" policy started eith the X Type and S Type.
Quoting Aristotle, [as to the placement of the carburetors] {twin SU's, I believe.} "All virtues lie in the mean." 'and we think we've made a good job of it.', Walter. Yes. Quite.
Heron head / combustion chamber was used in many engines including many VW's It was not very efficient, and thus not very popular Overly square engines produce a wide torque band something that pairs well with a heavy car like a Jaguar Sedan. At the time this was advanced, but later Jaguar under BL was cash starved for R&D and this engine never saw updates to be competitive with BMW / MB V12's Unfortunately due to emissions I doubt we will see v12's in anything other than the odd supercar in the coming years.
I've been a OEM automotive engineer in the US for over 25yrs... nope not once have I heard anything close to that! The sales weenies though... almost daily.
AS is usual, the Lucas electrical system negated the engine's reliability. The engine was also very heavy; and it was a bear to maintain..a distributor cap was $225.
+Ad Mirer .. Heat was the problem.. ignition amps bolted into the valley and distributor caps cracking.. constantly. Now it's virtually impossible to get good quality caps, or rotor arms.. cheap grade plastics from the far east will consign classic cars to museums.. and barns.!
+Ad Mirer i am sure there are after market electronic distributors for these engines, may be wrong but i thought ii read about them somewhere or other,
marcmarcmarcmarcmarc ..The original distributor was a breakerless ignition, the aftermarket ones were just NOS XJ-S, re-packaged as a *costly* upgrade.. They do solve the problem of starting when hot, but the real big issue is the carbs.. they make the car run like an agricultural relic. The best upgrade for the V12 is the fuel injection mod..
+Dan Uhr I don't have any experience with the V12s but a friend's father bought her an XKE when she turned 16. She loved it but kept blowing up the engine. He had his mechanic swap it with a V8 from a Mustang. And all was well with my lead footed friend.
@Briggsquantum No i am running four webbers. Gas mileage is alright 18ish on the highway, better then my chevy small block which only gets 14. Maintaining them properly is key, jag pays their mechanics to much. They then have to charge lots. It isn't that hard to maintain them yourself, just a lot of people are lazy about it.
I know the mechanic has to fiddle with something to allow more airflow cause it was bogging at low rpm's once that got ironed out she runs dandy, much easier to handle then six.
Where did you get that number ? The Jaguar v12 in this video weighed 680 pounds and in the years of gen one production made more power than the majority of American V-8s.
***** I have it on very good authority that the LS7 dressed with manifolds and alternator, etc. weighs about 450-500 pounds. The Jag V12's in the same condition weighed around 900 pounds. You are probably talking without the accessories for the 350 pound quote.
they actually were closed to 700 pounds and made way more power than V8s of the day. In the same decade the Camaro, mustang, corvette, all made less than 200hp. The mustang of course had the 5.0, but the GM engines ran all the way up past 6l, while the V12 made nearly 100 more hp at 5.3l pfffft
Has anyone ever tried an induction system with four 3 barrel down draft ( I d f ) webbers like the ones used on on other engines , such as the miura v-12 or porche flat /oppossed 6 cyl. I personally was never fond of stromborgs carb at all ..always loved webbers , the simplicity , tunabilty , ease of maintanance etc. ? Especially in that era and with high perfomace engines webbers &sports cars went together like meat and potatoes ......many times stromborgs were used to comply with emission regulations .....with todays tech, we could overcome all those issues with digital multi-port f-i , crank triggerd coil on plug ignition etc. Ect. Etc.
Search for "Jaguar V12 Weber" there are some videos with webers. Not 4/3 but 6/2 usually and as with all weber setups lots of reversion but good power. A racing FI setup is most efficient re power and fuel metering. Sad that these motors never had a worthy oem FI system.
The 6 cylinder (3.8) E Type : Top speed = 153 mph. 0 - 60 = 6.7 seconds. The "improved" V12 E Type : Top speed = 148 mph. 0 - 60 = 6.4 seconds. What if the 6 cylinder had been made with an alooominum block ?
The V-12 in the XJS was horrendous, trying to pass emissions, the engine was flooded with vacuum driven valves & vacuum lines by the mile underhood. These Jags were a money pit, when one system was corrected, another would fail. These vacuum driven systems were common to all in the eighties. Who knows how good the V12 could have been with current computer EFI systems eliminating all the reliability issues. The V8 jags now have zero character & copy the Aston Martins too close.
ManInTheBigHat It was more the injectors and electrical systems of Jags that were not reliable. If something DID go wrong with the V12 though, well, you know it was very expensive. They certainly aren't known for their longevity but for the first 80,000 miles or so, they were decent. I used to have a mid '80s XJS V12 but installed a warmed over Chevrolet engine with complete, custom wiring after conversions became quite commonplace. No problems at all, then. Better fuel economy and MUCH a faster car!
ManInTheBigHat It wasn't necessarily the engine itself, it was the "supporting systems"...electricals, ignition, emissions systems(vacuum lines, multiple air-valves, diverter valves,etc), Fuel systems. The core of the engine itself is very sound...too bad the later half of its life had to deal with emissions systems & fuel economy issues. This chore of trying to be a "clean" engine and an "economical" engine was just really too much to accomplish. The result was a wholly complicated effort, & as such, prone to breakdowns ....not from any design faults, just too many things to go wrong.
:) So by your logic a Volkswagen Beatles's four cylinder, air cooled engine is better then a ferrari v-12 simply because it has sold more? You obviously never driven a Jag v-12 One of mine has over 200,000 miles on it and it runs so smooth I can balance a penny on the engine while its running. It also never has problems with the engine.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m sure they all had a spot of tea afterwards. Nice vid. Thanks.
Nice bit of old fashioned staged filming with Mundy and Hassan giving an overview of the techy bits of their beautiful design. Very formal and quaint but thank goodness these two men came together Mr Baxter. They were a great credit to the UK motor manufacturers who were second to none in the world in this particular decade.
Thankyou so much for uploading this film.
As a passionate Jaguar V12 nutcase, I shall cherish Hassan and Mundy enthusing over their creation. I especially loved the wry smile on Mundy's face when he said "...in the future, when they get tougher, we're all going to have problems!!" commenting on emissions regulations.
Superb Film !
After several years of ownership of a 1986 Jaguar Sovereign HE V12 - no repair of any kind ever done to the engine, heads never removed, all original internals, oil consumption so low that the change of level on the dipstick between changes is barely noticeable, even with the relatively large lubrication area of 12 cylinder bores, indicating outstanding material quality and manufacture.
No other car I have ever owned used anywhere near as little oil as the Jaguar V12.
3 compressions down now, one recently become serious because of valve seat dropping, time to take the heads off. No big deal after 30 years.
As one other commenter said - it's the external bits that let these engines down, and people not maintaining cooling systems, so the engines overheat. That's when the valve seats start to move.
By far the best engine I have ever owned, in by far the best car I have ever owned or driven - and that's not a small number.
The range of abilities of the V12 Jags is outstanding - near silence, almost turbine smoothness, with no vibration from the engine ever felt in the car, top end response and acceleration that surprise people accustomed to later German V12s.
Still one of the best engines to drive, with its superb broad spread of torque.
No other car I have ever driven - English, German, Italian, American, Australian (I live in Adelaide) has ever come anywhere near the driving quality of the Jaguar V12.
18tangles Which model?
+18tangles I had a 1964 2.4 MKll with Solex carbs...I threw them in the bin and fitted a 3.4 inlet manifold and SU HD6's with TL needles and red springs (Advice from SU in Brum:) and I think Jaguar went on to use HS6 carbs at a later date...Back in those days Duckhams Q20/50 came out and was as cheap as chips although bought out by Castrol now I believe...Happy days.
1994 xjs 6l v12. i run it hard and it never complains.had to do a bit of maintenance to him because of neglect and poor workmanship from p.o.but nigel's never left me walking. wouldn't trade him for anu other ride.btw....he's not a garage dweller. i drive him every day cold or hot but i avoid rain and snow. after all....when you are retired you don't have to leave the house unless you want to and when the weather is for shit...i take out the jeep ;-)
i like my bodywork in one piece....don't much care if the jeep gets a knock or two.
94xjs6l.runs well.125k mi. i run the hell out of mine and no serious problems. it has never left me walking. a bit frustrated at times but never a walk required.
i highly recommend this engine for performance applications.easily tuned and responsive to changes.
How many miles? And why are you bragging about an engine being reliable and well-built and well-engineered in a "high-end" car? Engines are supposed to be reliable and durable. You're bragging about competence. Not "excellence". And what the fuck is "driving quality" and how many cars have you actually driven? It's not hard to be the very best of a very few.
Great stuff Viewers not treated as ignorant of how things work No dumbing down
Wonderful film clip... you could almost smell the Castrol oil!!
+Castrol "R" yes i remember that nice smelly oil running in my car .
I used to work at the Jaguar Engine and Transmission Pant in Sandy Lane, Radford, Coventry, in 1980 until I got the sack in Dec 81 on account of my punk rock coloured hair. I remember as a trainee working on parts of the V12 and the straight 6. I have always admired Jaguars, and if I were well off I should like to own one, especially an older model. What marvelous engineering! Interesting to see Raymond Baxter who used to host the programme Tomorrow's World on the BBC. Nice one for sharing.
xj12c
@MichaelKingsfordGray - Get medical help luvvie, you clearly have issues.
Perfect interview with perfect, nee, humble English gentlemen real engineers who ALL convey factual and valuable information - not hype or sensationalism. Oh for these days...sadly gone, but here, not forgotten. Thanks for posting,
Regards Mark in the UK
a work of art . no computers all on drawing boards and tab packets . great men .
These two men are legends in jaguar history.
Wonderful video! As a life-long Jaguar fan and all-around Anglophile, I couldn't ask for more.....Thank you so much for posting.
+Moses Berkowitz Thank you for letting us know. Glad you liked it.
+Moses Berkowitz The XJ 12 was a great chick magnet and they were cheap cars.
Dennis Cat I find myself thinking about a lot of double entendres at Jaguar xmas parties, just looking at the finer ladies in attendance and making veiled comments about lively combustion chambers, length of intake runners and differences between bore and stroke...
samsonian Well, be sure to check the oil in the rear end. It's easy on the ones with high mileage, but some of the newer models will probably give you some trouble.
Gold. Great bit of historical film. Those chaps are wonderful, and great to hear Raymond Baxter too. And of course possibly one of the finest engines ever made.
I like the fact they speak about technical details so much. Now not even in races people speak about technical stuff.. not to mention normal cars with their fancy automatizations and usb inputs and screens.
Wonderful video of these old boys talking about their fabulous design. Priceless.
Excellent. I remember Raymond Baxter from Tomorrows World, going back to the 1970’s. I did an engineering degree at Jaguar in the mid ‘80’s’. Worked in a few V12’s at the time. Wish I’d seen this interview back then.
That Ignition system went from Lucas " Opus" ( mechanics referred to it a "'opeless" ) through to Magnet Marelli similar to the system fitted to Ferrari V12's , and I remember the first time that I changed the plugs on an early carburretted V12 that it took almost five hours, and by the time that I had learned the tricks of the trade, I had the plug change down to twenty minutes. The engine was beautiful with fuel injection, and in the earlier carburretted form. I remember single handedly taking out, rebuilding, and re-installing many of these engines over the years, the only fragile parts were the exhaust manifolds, made from thin walled close grained cast iron. The present day Aston Martin V12's owe everything to these two great Engineers, Harry Mundy, and Walter Hassan, who in my opinion did MORE for the British Empire, than the sum total of it's Kings and Queens.
How great is this ? Its rare you get to hear info on a Legendary Engine, right from the designers mouths. Classic.
Built hundreds of them on the track at Radford Coventry 1985 - 88. Drives you mad eventually. The track went squeak squeak and the airlines leaked all day and all night...Every one of them hand built. Automation was a multi spindle airbrace for doing the sump. The pillar drills dated from 1914. British industry at its best...
Spencer. Can you help me track down a mystery engine code etched on my 1991 TWR 6.3 V12 engine. J/S 6L 38 DEV I have contacted Jaguar UK, USA and the Jaguar museum and no one seems to recognize it. I am pretty sure it is a Walkinshaw engine
***** The have no record of the code. :(
I worked on Jags in California; Rolls too Not rushed. Get it right. Didn't work on the 12 though. Enjoyed it !
One Million Thank yous, for sharing this incredible documentary .... B R A V O...!
Well done... Well done indeed.
Fantastic. Jaguar V12 explained. Cheers.
Sir William Lyons put together (in my humble opinion) the very best team of engineers, designers, stylists and crafts men and women in the UK car industry at that time. But then came British Leyland.... And oh Lordy, things they did go wrong.
MrClingclong
Yes, they ruined the British car industry along with the government.
I love hearing engineers explain their thought process that went into designing something like an engine, and the Jaguar V12 is one incredible engine. Sadly some of the parts that are mounted to it make it seem that the engine is unreliable, which is simply not true. The issues the v12 Jaguars had was related to either the parts on the engine, or a poorly maintained cooling system. Over heat one of these, drops a valve seat and likely takes the piston with it, if not the head as well.
Wonderful video. This engine is a piece of art.
These two should be very proud of what they created
Great piece of history, thank you for sharing this.
Love this ..THE BOYS HAD A DRINK ...But they give us all Pure v 12 class......
Great video. Same engine that was in my 84 xjs except it had Fuel injection.
1:07 No, you should say "aluminium". That is a British engine after all.
+ashbytimuk either pronunciation is acceptable.
@MichaelKingsfordGray You said it yourself, cretin, IT WAS CHANGED.
British and American English are different languages. Lots of word the same, but lots not the same.
@MichaelKingsfordGray - Straight to the insults? always the refuge of the weak!
You need to own one that has been taken care of. As I just said mine has been running flawlessly for the last 200,000 miles. . .
I also own several others that very rarely have issues.
I would recommend buying the 94 majestics. The only thing they had issues with were faulty relays which were easy and cheap to replace. The 5.3 v-12 in the jag was one of the best engines ever built.
The issue is people are to stupid to maintain them properly.
I used to work for a guy who talked fondly about an old jaguar car he owned, after listening to him talk about his car for a while I asked him was it reliable, Oh No! he said but it was a Jaguar.
I have JCB and Perkins diesel from UK... excellent quality.
"so no emission control problems?"
"in the future when they get tougher we're all going to have problems.."
I looked at a early V-12 with a buddy while in H. School, I think it was a "New- XJS". The dealer showroom had the hood up and it was our first look at a V-12. I noted to my buddy I could only spot 3 of 12 spark plugs looking from above, tubes, hoses, and wires everywhere. But this was likely 1977 ish and "smog" equipment was at it's pinnacle of cluster clutter.
“so far so good, but why a 12 cylinder?”
I so wanted him to day “ because it's a Jag baby!”
Gents.
I so WANT Mr. Baxter's hair job.
A substantial, elegant, coiffure resembling the top of a bed frame, if I must say so...
Controlled and presented as though it is a wildlife-like extension of the scalp.
It gives a Bohemian, but mannerly, counterpoint to his oh-so British manner.
I stand corrected about the carburetors - Yes, they are Strombergs at least as presented here.
"WTF Hassan" - may have become the standard reaction of V12 drivers having to open the hood :)
100 octane-the good old days
I think this V12 was made to run on unleaded fuel.
Excellent informative video. Shows how a great deal of thought went into the design. So it started off with 272 hp. What have people been able to do with it, torque wise as well as HP?
Now we can research and develop in virtual. Such a time saver and electronic control of fuel air delivery. Valve timing and exhaust system variables. Every rpm and temperature range can be tuned for exactly what is required via sensor servos. Who knows what the next improvement might be made next. Jolly Good!
If one builds a better mouse trap, many buyers shall seek your firm for orders.
fab history of the v12
Hmmmm, don't agree with you SuperStig23. I put my engine together in 2005 and it' still going strong without missing a beat in 10 years! Have you ever experienced the smooth linear power delivery of this V12 unit let alone the silence? I am actually wondering if you're an armchair critic without the knowledge of these glorious engines. As for your views on the 6 cylinder XK unit, this motor too was a tour de force when released in 1948. These are mechanical pieces of art which were a true masterpiece of design and execution and thoroughly bang up to date in their respective eras. A Ferrari V12 was and still is a ludicrously expensive power unit where Jaguar bought the fabulous and exotic V12 to the masses for little money. It's all relative my friend. Jaguar, for a small British manufacturer punched well above their weight offering champagne machines for beer money...
RCBM Superstig is talking bollocks! A Ferrari 250 produced 220 BHP, not sure how that is twice the power. Lamborghini started building his own cars, because his Ferraris never worked.
Its been running for ten years? Continually? WOW. The way you Jaguar fanboys brag about your engines and cars - supposedly "premium" in both cases - actually running and driving for "years" after dumping ridiculous amounts of money into "restoring" and/or "rebuilding" engines/vehicles that apparently were worn out ALSO within "years" is hilarious.
@@deeremeyer1749 well then since you've got such a big mouth stuck on the front of that so called face of yours why don't you just go ahead and give us all an education then?
". . . so 12 cylinders was not just ballyhoo and vigor. . . " lol
These two mechanical engineers Knew what they were talking about, Unlike the waffling wally, Clarkson.
Great video.
Clarkson free.
NunsAllowed PERFECT comment, mate! Clarkson is a nothing more than bullocks!
It's a Jaaag
"Great video.
Clarkson free".... What a pity. Clarkson would've made it interesting.
NunsAllowed is a definitely a peugeot driver.
fuel goes here, air goes here, witchcraft happens and there's powerrrr
Thank You for This Video .
I want one under my coffee table. Clarkson really should be a decor decorator for gear heads. Unfortunately I live in the US and jaguar parts here are rare, expensive or nonexistent.
Fantastic video. You don't happen to have a 2nd part do you? It looks like it was cut off mid Interview
+asdreww Unfortunately, I don't.
Amazing. Raymond Baxter was an RAF fighter pilot in the war and an excellent engineer and presenter. The interview shows no disrespect for the viewers' intelligence. Why did we lose such quality discourse in favour of that twat Clarkson and his dumb - ass style of infantilism?
+kts68 Unfortunately we have collectively lost most of our engineering talent. Back in the day, most people would know how to maintain a car or anything mechanical. Not the case now and probably never will be again. So out of that vacuum springs twats like Clarkson so entertain the dumb masses.
+deemdoubleu I tip my hat to you, kind Sir
Desperation is the stepfather of motivation.
Every thing is now dumbed down to entertain the masses, even the news.
deemdoubleu . clarkson is an entertainer. This is an information piece.... How are you not able to distinguish the two?
Wet liners. Better cooling/engine wear? My 3cyl Triumph bike has them.
I love that old-school bullsh*t! Single camshaft? No, single camshaft PER BANK which means TWO camshafts. For balance, economy and performance, a V8 wins every time.
But thanks for uploading, a piece of history is preserved.
Inline 6 is the most naturally smooth configuration and a v 2 is really two in line 6 engines therefore its very smooth running
I know there is an SU kit to replace the Strombergs. Bolts onto the stock manifolds. Are you sure they aren't SU carbs?
@Briggsquantum
Its a custom design that I had a mechanic do for me :) they are side draft webbers, they mount up very similar to the Strombergs, slight changes needed to be made obviously but so far it has worked out amazingly well, they hold a tune awesome and I almost never have an issue. I don't have all the specs in my head but i can always go out and take a look :)
Its on the 74 model jag 5.3 v12. After i had an engine fire because of the strombergs slopping gas onto the manifold i decided that I had to switch to the webbers
Well this is the V12 engine used until the late 90s. XJR6 or 8 produce 660 and 750 hp (race cars). But these guys used 4valves/cylinder (i believe). I know TWR's Touring car XJS still used 2v/c but I can't find the output power. It was fast, check it out. Jaguar used this engine in the last XJ V12 model, with +320hp I believe.
I love the way they use the American way to say Aluminium in a sarcastic hyphenated and somewhat condescending way haha.
Fantastic video.
IDF's are a non-progressive two barrel Weber, and six are needed on the V-12. So which Weber model are you using, if you need only four of them? And do they install on the stock manifold? Humour me. Tell me the truth. I'm interested.
Amazing motor stretched to 7 litres this aluminium never aluminum baby pushed the XJR 9 and XJR 12's to two Le Mans wins. Two 5 litre DOHC V12 fuel injected motors were also built for the aborted XJ13 racer, one of them turned up on e-bay in Germany some years ago.
Raymond Baxter, the guvnor of motoring journalism. For us Brits anyway.
I'm thinking about adding a 89' XJS V12 to my collection. Car has under 50k miles and runs ok. If I end up getting it the first thing will be fuel lines and all fluids (coolant, oil, brake fluid, etc). I'm having a hard time finding out what is the weak link in the cooling system. Is it the radiator or is it from improper coolant changes?
+DIY Dan the v12 runs incredibly hot as it is, even so if all the cooling system is in good order its sufficient. However it is advisable to invest in better fans and even extra vents to relieve the hot air.
Maybe a bit late for you - your To Do list is good, but also ensure that you change every one of the coolant hoses that is not still in practically as new condition.
Download a copy of Kirby Palm's Experience In A Book. Plenty of good advice there about the V12 cooling system, including how to ensure that it is filled properly. If you follow the manufacturer's instructions you may leave air pockets in the coolant.
thanks for the info!
I shall be posting a 1989 XJS with 45k miles and in excellent condition.
The owner who is quite wealthy bought it 6 years ago and almost never drove it, and this ended up causing water to condense the tank so now the tank will be dropped and cleaned out and the car will get a clean bill of health before I post it on Ebay. The lucky buyer will have to come to South Carolina to drive it home,
Geniale Maschiene Verri Brithis
270bhp? this engine must have be able to run forever. It's not going to be stressed much. Is this the same engine that was in the XJS?
Perhaps some would say that the fact two of the 'XK' engine six cylinder cylinder blocks were 'strapped' on to a common crankcase might just have had something to do with the choice of V 12. As a certain My Lyons was well known for re-using elements of (a) previous model(s) in a new one to reduce costs ? . . . !
The V12 is nothing like that. The XK wasn't a wet liner engine for a start.
What year was this? 1975 ish?
yes they were definatly taking the piss!
If an American designer says he's using a SOHC for the first time, he means he's only ever used cam-in-block before. When these fellows say they're using SOHC for the first time, they mean they've only made DOHC engines before.
@Ricardo Ellison
Worked on a lot of jags then? Lots of the v12s?
I am American btw.
When I say shitty oil I mean the wrong weight, they need the right weight to run right. Gas is very important to, they require high octane fuel.
Keeping the vacuum lines lubed is very simple, only takes 15 minutes to do them all. And yes i like their precision, i treat them in a precise manner and they don't break.
Rather good show, chaps. So Mr. Baxter is the Mr. Clarkson of the 1960/70s, with out the wit and sarcasm, is he?. Splendid. "AluMinium" please Mr. Mundy. We sha'nt need to stoop to the lows of the Americans, now, do we sir. Jolly good chaps.
Clarkson couldn't lace Raymond Baxter's boots, he's a complete ignoramus by comparison. As far as the "Aloominum" thing goes, this is plainly a promo aimed at the Americans, who went on to love the cars powered by this engine.
Zagar Evans Clarkson is an asshole.
If you knew anything about the v-12s then you would know that the main issues they had were with the stromberg carburretors and the electronics. I replaced mine with a webber kit. Never have an issue.
jag also solved a lot of the problems when they switched to EFI.
They are simply engines that you have to take care of, I don;t hit mine with a hammer. . .
Imagine Jeremy Clarkson trying to follow that conversation... Actually I can't.
Jeremy Clarkson would have been great for this had he been born earlier.
Very clever men in the decade the V12 was developed. Pity the likes of Clarkson and other self serving TV car presenters couldn't have spent a week in their company to appreciate what the likes of Mundy and Hassan contributed to motor car development.
@Briggsquantom
Sorry for the late response, yes I am positive they are webbers.
was it the same engine, albeit a reworked version, in both the most powerful e-type's and xj-c? both with 5.3litre versions of the jaguar v12.....
Which is why a lot of the cars still out on the road with that heavy engine are now fitted with those new fangled after market stiffening bars to keep the engine from shaking too much & wrecking its mounts so often. Thanks.
A V12 was also used in the XJS
As much as I love my XJS v12 it does have some inherent design flaws that I think were obvious from day 1
Is this why a 1989 XJS in excellent condition with only 45k miles will only bring around 7500 dollars?
Josef Venport
I think so. I love them but only enthusiasts will decide for a real and classic Jaguar which has run ot of existence in 2008 when the X350 has been replaced with the modern X351. The brand is finaly finacially successful but also dead un terms of tradition and sense for the heritage. Dead.
Now Jag is equal to all other zero charisma brand. Simply prositituted to the mass market to match a clientel who has no idea of the brand and no heart for tradition.
houseofwine So say I ole man!
Tis a shame indeed to have Jaguar owned by the Indians.
Josef Venport
About right but this mess started some years before the Indians took over. The "Diesel and station wagon using cheap and fake interior for the mass market" policy started eith the X Type and S Type.
Quoting Aristotle, [as to the placement of the carburetors] {twin SU's, I believe.}
"All virtues lie in the mean."
'and we think we've made a good job of it.', Walter.
Yes. Quite.
All round cleverness. The work from which he quoted was Aristoltle's "Ethics".
If only they made a dry sump version
Heron head / combustion chamber was used in many engines including many VW's
It was not very efficient, and thus not very popular
Overly square engines produce a wide torque band something that pairs well with a heavy car like a Jaguar Sedan.
At the time this was advanced, but later Jaguar under BL was cash starved for R&D and this engine never saw updates to be competitive with BMW / MB V12's
Unfortunately due to emissions I doubt we will see v12's in anything other than the odd supercar in the coming years.
they replaced it with the mays head in 81 i believe
If memory serves, the BMW 850 had 300 BHP, same as a HE engine.
00:10 WTF Hassan. A different age.
Reverse Hemispherical combustion chamber, almost like a diesel.
Kinda nice Gents...Brits make nice stuff...I love my Perkins diesels and JCB backhoe...Cat actually owns Perkins now...they don't buy junk.Shalom
any people that had cars with this engine was it good ?
What year was this ? XJ13 1966 had over 500bhp
+Mantas Isganaitis Horses were smaller back then . . .
"As Aristotle said"....no American engineer is going to use that line!
I've been a OEM automotive engineer in the US for over 25yrs... nope not once have I heard anything close to that! The sales weenies though... almost daily.
AS is usual, the Lucas electrical system negated the engine's reliability. The engine was also very heavy; and it was a bear to maintain..a distributor cap was $225.
+Ad Mirer .. Heat was the problem.. ignition amps bolted into the valley and distributor caps cracking.. constantly.
Now it's virtually impossible to get good quality caps, or rotor arms.. cheap grade plastics from the far east will consign classic cars to museums.. and barns.!
+Ad Mirer i am sure there are after market electronic distributors for these engines, may be wrong but i thought ii read about them somewhere or other,
marcmarcmarcmarcmarc
..The original distributor was a breakerless ignition, the aftermarket ones were just NOS XJ-S, re-packaged as a *costly* upgrade.. They do solve the problem of starting when hot, but the real big issue is the carbs.. they make the car run like an agricultural relic. The best upgrade for the V12 is the fuel injection mod..
+Ad Mirer 'Lucas was a great apostle but a miserable electrician'.
Many engines in the U.S. were removed and replaced by American V8s.
+Dan Uhr I don't have any experience with the V12s but a friend's father bought her an XKE when she turned 16. She loved it but kept blowing up the engine. He had his mechanic swap it with a V8 from a Mustang. And all was well with my lead footed friend.
@Briggsquantum
No i am running four webbers. Gas mileage is alright 18ish on the highway, better then my chevy small block which only gets 14.
Maintaining them properly is key, jag pays their mechanics to much. They then have to charge lots. It isn't that hard to maintain them yourself, just a lot of people are lazy about it.
OMG! James May before hair plugs!
I know the mechanic has to fiddle with something to allow more airflow cause it was bogging at low rpm's once that got ironed out she runs dandy, much easier to handle then six.
These engines weighed upwards of 900 pounds, compared to 450-550 pounds for typical V8's of the same size and usually greater power.
Where did you get that number ? The Jaguar v12 in this video weighed 680 pounds and in the years of gen one production made more power than the majority of American V-8s.
*****
Yes but that is a modern engine using modern tech and I was speaking of Gen I. Wheres the point?
***** I have it on very good authority that the LS7 dressed with manifolds and alternator, etc. weighs about 450-500 pounds. The Jag V12's in the same condition weighed around 900 pounds. You are probably talking without the accessories for the 350 pound quote.
Jagtastic, Haha.
they actually were closed to 700 pounds and made way more power than V8s of the day. In the same decade the Camaro, mustang, corvette, all made less than 200hp. The mustang of course had the 5.0, but the GM engines ran all the way up past 6l, while the V12 made nearly 100 more hp at 5.3l pfffft
Has anyone ever tried an induction system with four 3 barrel down draft ( I d f ) webbers like the ones used on on other engines , such as the miura v-12 or porche flat /oppossed 6 cyl. I personally was never fond of stromborgs carb at all ..always loved webbers , the simplicity , tunabilty , ease of maintanance etc. ? Especially in that era and with high perfomace engines webbers &sports cars went together like meat and potatoes ......many times stromborgs were used to comply with emission regulations .....with todays tech, we could overcome all those issues with digital multi-port f-i , crank triggerd coil on plug ignition etc. Ect. Etc.
Search for "Jaguar V12 Weber" there are some videos with webers. Not 4/3 but 6/2 usually and as with all weber setups lots of reversion but good power. A racing FI setup is most efficient re power and fuel metering. Sad that these motors never had a worthy oem FI system.
One needs to watch this at 1.25X speed...
Ha ha ha ha...Overall simplicity...!!!
The 6 cylinder (3.8) E Type : Top speed = 153 mph. 0 - 60 = 6.7 seconds.
The "improved" V12 E Type : Top speed = 148 mph. 0 - 60 = 6.4 seconds.
What if the 6 cylinder had been made with an alooominum block ?
johnpetermalcolm 😂
The V-12 in the XJS was horrendous, trying to pass emissions, the engine was flooded with vacuum driven valves & vacuum lines by the mile underhood. These Jags were a money pit, when one system was corrected, another would fail. These vacuum driven systems were common to all in the eighties. Who knows how good the V12 could have been with current computer EFI systems eliminating all the reliability issues. The V8 jags now have zero character & copy the Aston Martins too close.
2.55 ALAN TURNER from emerdale.....
Rigtig dejlig maskine, smukt arbejde .....
"Vaccume lines" Is this your "Queens English?
It's funny that these are some of the most troublesome engines ever made.
ManInTheBigHat It was more the injectors and electrical systems of Jags that were not reliable. If something DID go wrong with the V12 though, well, you know it was very expensive. They certainly aren't known for their longevity but for the first 80,000 miles or so, they were decent.
I used to have a mid '80s XJS V12 but installed a warmed over Chevrolet engine with complete, custom wiring after conversions became quite commonplace. No problems at all, then. Better fuel economy and MUCH a faster car!
ManInTheBigHat It wasn't necessarily the engine itself, it was the "supporting systems"...electricals, ignition, emissions systems(vacuum lines, multiple air-valves, diverter valves,etc), Fuel systems. The core of the engine itself is very sound...too bad the later half of its life had to deal with emissions systems & fuel economy issues. This chore of trying to be a "clean" engine and an "economical" engine was just really too much to accomplish. The result was a wholly complicated effort, & as such, prone to breakdowns ....not from any design faults, just too many things to go wrong.
:) So by your logic a Volkswagen Beatles's four cylinder, air cooled engine is better then a ferrari v-12 simply because it has sold more?
You obviously never driven a Jag v-12
One of mine has over 200,000 miles on it and it runs so smooth I can balance a penny on the engine while its running.
It also never has problems with the engine.