Yep, I tell my customers that it looks nasty, but until such time if it take a nasty hit and it cracks, we can just patch it if it leaks. Or replace the part if available. Ahem, Bach. Supply issues. Most red rot is going to be in the lead pipe or main tuning slide. Keep them clean and decalcified and that is a great preventive measure. Leaving the crusty alkaline build up inside the horns will hasten the etching of the metal and cause problems.
True story! My teacher, Gil Johnson, was in the middle of a performance with the Philadelphia Orchestra when he got a tap on his leg from his section mate who pointed to a hole that just apoyen his trumpet. Gil discreetly reached into his case and found some scotch tape. They patched the hole and his pal played the rest of the concert without a hitch!
I’m glad to know about the lacquer issue that looks similar to red rot. I have an old trombone slide that I thought was covered in red rot, but where I’ve polished, the red disappears. Thank you.
When my house was built, about 95 years ago, the water pipes were brass. They suffer from a problem that’s similar to your red rot. It’s an electrolytic reaction between the various metals in the brass alloy. Plumbers call it dezincification and it first attacks the thinnest part of the pipe- the bottom of a pipe thread. If you go to repair a brass water pipe you find that you may end up replacing a much larger section of pipe than you thought because the weakened threaded joints may break.
definitely need to start bringing a toothbrush in my case, my dad was in marching band til 87 and used a Bach Stradivarius it’s been in its case until around 2021 and I’ve been using it ever since but now my main tuning slide has developed red rot
i found a Olds Trombone in the garbage, the end of the slide was completely "rusted' out, i made my own patch out of a copper pipe, unsoldered the end, fixed it round again and soldered the patch onto it. after reassembling it works great.
Excellent explanation ! I'll add that the risk of red rot, and also the life expectancy of a part that has red rot, mostly depends on 2 things: - the quality of the brass (low quality metal is more prone to have not enough zinc, or contain too much impurities/unwanted metals, which eases the corrosion) - The chemistry of the player's body. Some people have particularly acidic spit and will wreck a leadpipe in less than 10 years. There's a part of food hygiene (more sugar = more acidity) but also some genetics here. Same for the sweat, some people have a very agressive transpiration Cleaning the inside of the horn regularly (with water and soft dish soap only) helps reducing the risk
I had a Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet that was made in the late 50s that had some really bad surface pitting, cracking, and red rot. I ended up selling it to someone who was getting into instrument repair. I'm super careful now about how I maintain my trumpets, so now I wash my mouth out before playing, and each time I finish playing for the day, I swab out the tuning slide and leadpipe as well as oil the valves.
Had some red rot on my trumpet mouthpipe project from the first semester here at Red Wing. I find it really interesting about all the different chemical reactions that can make a tube unusable. Update from Red Wing: Going to be a brass repair tech, as I'm not all that interested in woodwinds. For my final bonus project, I fixed a chrome-plated F.E. Olds Ultratone G Contrabass Bugle. It had a lot of dents in the bell bow, so the MDRS got a good workout for this project. I finished up all the dents in the, thankfully removable, bell stem using the dent machine sold by Ferree's. Had some missing plating on the piston that I buffed off with some of our last Jason Lea Yellow Rouge compound, a shame that this brand of Yellow isn't being manufactured anymore. Tomorrow, I'll be straightening the neck tenon, as the casing to mouthpipe/neck receiver is bent. A great video as always, Art!
Thank you for the news from Red Wing. I have not been there since 1994. On my final brass project, a Getzen 300 trumpet, I was ready to lacquer it and I noticed that I forgot to remove the valve caps. I carefully removed the caps, but one dropped anyway and got a small dent in the bell. I had to remove the dent and buff the whole thing all over again.
Art, if I find a trumpet that has pink spots on the leadpipe, but after cleaning, I don't see any bumps when looking through it, is that a reasonably good sign that it's a surface blemish and not red rot?
Yes, you can solder a thin brass patch over the hole. If there is red rot that has gone all the way through, there may be others that are ready to work there way through, so look for others periodically.
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"It's amazing what I do for my viewers." Thank you, Art - I've been playing for 30 years, and you've taught me a bunch.
Yep, I tell my customers that it looks nasty, but until such time if it take a nasty hit and it cracks, we can just patch it if it leaks. Or replace the part if available. Ahem, Bach. Supply issues. Most red rot is going to be in the lead pipe or main tuning slide. Keep them clean and decalcified and that is a great preventive measure. Leaving the crusty alkaline build up inside the horns will hasten the etching of the metal and cause problems.
True story!
My teacher, Gil Johnson, was in the middle of a performance with the Philadelphia Orchestra when he got a tap on his leg from his section mate who pointed to a hole that just apoyen his trumpet. Gil discreetly reached into his case and found some scotch tape. They patched the hole and his pal played the rest of the concert without a hitch!
I’m glad to know about the lacquer issue that looks similar to red rot. I have an old trombone slide that I thought was covered in red rot, but where I’ve polished, the red disappears. Thank you.
Your videos are a work of Art.......
When my house was built, about 95 years ago, the water pipes were brass. They suffer from a problem that’s similar to your red rot. It’s an electrolytic reaction between the various metals in the brass alloy. Plumbers call it dezincification and it first attacks the thinnest part of the pipe- the bottom of a pipe thread. If you go to repair a brass water pipe you find that you may end up replacing a much larger section of pipe than you thought because the weakened threaded joints may break.
The dezincification is from acids excreted by vinegar bacteria that grow in our mouth and everywhere on the body.
definitely need to start bringing a toothbrush in my case, my dad was in marching band til 87 and used a Bach Stradivarius it’s been in its case until around 2021 and I’ve been using it ever since but now my main tuning slide has developed red rot
i found a Olds Trombone in the garbage, the end of the slide was completely "rusted' out, i made my own patch out of a copper pipe, unsoldered the end, fixed it round again and soldered the patch onto it. after reassembling it works great.
Thank you for the explanation and the view inside the tube. Now I'm not so concerned anymore about the red rod on my tuba.
Thanks for explaining these differences. I have a wide range of instruments with spots with different alloys of different ages and lacquer conditions.
Excellent explanation !
I'll add that the risk of red rot, and also the life expectancy of a part that has red rot, mostly depends on 2 things:
- the quality of the brass (low quality metal is more prone to have not enough zinc, or contain too much impurities/unwanted metals, which eases the corrosion)
- The chemistry of the player's body. Some people have particularly acidic spit and will wreck a leadpipe in less than 10 years. There's a part of food hygiene (more sugar = more acidity) but also some genetics here. Same for the sweat, some people have a very agressive transpiration
Cleaning the inside of the horn regularly (with water and soft dish soap only) helps reducing the risk
Amazing explanation, thank you!
Thanks! Very good explanation!
I had a Getzen Super Deluxe trumpet that was made in the late 50s that had some really bad surface pitting, cracking, and red rot. I ended up selling it to someone who was getting into instrument repair. I'm super careful now about how I maintain my trumpets, so now I wash my mouth out before playing, and each time I finish playing for the day, I swab out the tuning slide and leadpipe as well as oil the valves.
Thanks for the good demonstration here.
Love your videos. Thank you.
Very interesting. I love your videos. Thanks.
Had some red rot on my trumpet mouthpipe project from the first semester here at Red Wing. I find it really interesting about all the different chemical reactions that can make a tube unusable. Update from Red Wing: Going to be a brass repair tech, as I'm not all that interested in woodwinds. For my final bonus project, I fixed a chrome-plated F.E. Olds Ultratone G Contrabass Bugle. It had a lot of dents in the bell bow, so the MDRS got a good workout for this project. I finished up all the dents in the, thankfully removable, bell stem using the dent machine sold by Ferree's. Had some missing plating on the piston that I buffed off with some of our last Jason Lea Yellow Rouge compound, a shame that this brand of Yellow isn't being manufactured anymore. Tomorrow, I'll be straightening the neck tenon, as the casing to mouthpipe/neck receiver is bent.
A great video as always, Art!
Thank you for the news from Red Wing. I have not been there since 1994.
On my final brass project, a Getzen 300 trumpet, I was ready to lacquer it and I noticed that I forgot to remove the valve caps. I carefully removed the caps, but one dropped anyway and got a small dent in the bell. I had to remove the dent and buff the whole thing all over again.
That was very helpful to put things in perspective! Thanks a lot!
Great information and video, thank you!
Thanks
So, what can we do to stop it or slow it?
Art, if I find a trumpet that has pink spots on the leadpipe, but after cleaning, I don't see any bumps when looking through it, is that a reasonably good sign that it's a surface blemish and not red rot?
Is there a way to repair a very small pin hole in the lead pipe that was formed by red rot, that does NOT require replacing the whole lead pipe?
Yes, you can solder a thin brass patch over the hole. If there is red rot that has gone all the way through, there may be others that are ready to work there way through, so look for others periodically.
This guy sounds like daily dose of internet😂
Hello
With some of our student trumpets the whole lead pipe is red rotted and smells like poop.
You have obviously never seen our schools tubas
Put a nickel lead pipe on it
Won’t ring like brass
Gold or red brass is also less prone to red rot.