Why are some saved, and not others?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Why some and not others? (cur alii, alii non?)
The question is called, by the Lutheran Theologians, the Crux Theologrum, the cross of the theologian.
Three things the Bible teaches that don't fit together in our minds:
1.
Universal Grace, that Christ died for all and God wills for all to be saved.
John 3:16
2 Peter 3:9
1 John 2:1-2
2.
Grace Alone (sola fide), that God alone saves us (apart from our works and without the assistance of our will, monergism)
Ephesians 2:8-9
3.
Hell, that there are those who are lost and condemned
Matthew 8:12
Matthew 25:41
Other passages mentioned:
Hosea 13:9, "9 O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help."
Romans 11:33-36, "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."
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Sometimes we just have to accept that we don’t always have answers for these things and just let it in God’s hands.
I understand, and this is a decent perspective to have, but if a church truly leaves it in God´s hands, then in their doctrinal statements they must not assert any kind of eternal torment, eternal separation, nor annihilation. Otherwise, as I see it, they are not leaving the issue in God´s hands.
@@ViolinistJeff God gave us His word. Can God lie? No, John 6:47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that BELIEVETH on me, apart from any works, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. Gods word. John 10:28-29 And I GIVE unto them ETERNAL LIFE, AND THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND. Once we accept the good news, The gospel. He keeps us saved. He has a hold on us.
We can be chastened by the Lord for living in sin, but God cannot go back on His promise. John 3:16-18. John 5:24. John 6:40. John 6:29.
Second Corinthians 5:21 For He hath made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us, so that we might be made the righteousness of God IN HIM. Romans 4:5-6.
John 3:16. See all you WHOSOEVERS in heaven. It is the greatest thing in all the world to KNOW you are going to heaven whenever you die. First John 5:13.
Very solid, amazing teaching. Calvanist doctrine almost destroyed my trust in God and hurt me deeply, thank God for his mercy and grace ❤
I mean... You still have to work for salvation.
@@fanfoire NOPE-,GIFT
@@fanfoire Sanctification is not the same as Justification
"When I applied my heart to know wisdom and to see the business that is done on earth, even though one sees no sleep day or night, then I saw all the work of God, that a man cannot find out the work that is done under the sun. For though a man labors to discover it, yet he will not find it; moreover, though a wise man attempts to know it, he will not be able to find it." -Ecclesiastes 8:16-17 NKJV
I’ve watched this 3 times now. This video is awesome!
Agreed!
Your Gift of Teaching is truly God Given. Bless you for obeying
I am 72 years old and have wrestled with these issues a few years. That was an unexpected and helpful answer. Thank you-
My favorite response to people who ask me that is, why would God want to save anyone?
I know right, God would be perfectly just in sending EVERYONE to hell !!
Because He is good and merciful?
Thank you Pastor Wolfmueller for this instructive video. The outline/listing of Scripture written in your notes below is particularly helpful to me.
Thank you for addressing this topic. I have a charismatic friend who said he has the supernatural gift of looking at somone and knowing if they are or will be saved. If you point out what the bible says, he dismisses it as 'that's just doctrine.' I guess that would be an unreasonable use of reason.
Thars a guy being an absolutely arrogant nonsense chattering buffoon, tbh. He’s claiming to have the power only God has. Charismatic Christianity is very suspect to me. I wouldn’t walk within fifty feet of one of their services. I suspect demonic activity.
A wonderful summary. Thank you including the notes and biblical references.
God KNOWS our hearts and minds.
Thank you for your work, brother. This was helpful. As a Reformed (Calvinist) seminary student, I can say that most of us Reformed theologians would agree with the right most box that you drew on who effects salvation and damnation. That double predestination of the left most box, most of us would call Hyper-Calvinism and isn't representative of the majority. We cite the difference in language used in Romans 9 where Paul explains that some vessels are prepared for destruction, while other vessels "HE" prepared for glory. We would say that all deserve condemnation of their own doing, but that in electing some to salvation, he merely passes over others, "He has mercy on whom he will have mercy, and he has compassion on whom he will have compassion." But God does not force the damned to be damned or force them to sin and reprobation. God be with you brother. Thanks again.
Thank you Pastor Wolfmeuler
I'm a Calvinist wanting to understand confessional Lutheranism better. I was linked to this video. Thank you for your clear explanation of your beliefs.
I would like to understand double predestination better. Could you explain please, I don’t get how God loves us, has irresistible grace, but doesn’t save all?
Calvinism is a Gospel of hopelessness
Luther’s soteriology is inconsistent Calvinism. Get recked
I love a sermon our pastor did on Romans 9 where he said why aren’t we asking the question “why me”?
That was a better way of approaching these questions.
I don't know which I like better - the "Grappling style" notes or the light board. Either way, visuals are helpful. Thanks for another great video.
Great video, trusting it's a leap of faith
Thank you Pastor, this is great.
Such a helpful visual!! Thank you Pastor!
Thank you for this video. Very clear explanation. It's ok if I borrow the diagram and translate it for our confessional french blog?
Yes, of course
I think Romans 9:22-23 gives a pretty good hint - it's ultimately all for His glory:
"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory..."
Yes. All things are for God.
very informative,,,, great
That was awesome ... Been looking for that answer for a long time.
I was raised in the catholic religion but have been born again for 28 years now and my
journey has been amazing!!! Jesus told
Nicodemus in John 3:3…one must be
born again to see the Kingdom of God!!!
Have met many many former catholics over the years who call themselves recovering
catholics…praying many more will realize
that religion does not align with FatherGod’s
Biblical Truth!!! ⚓️⚓️⚓️
Hello, Pastor Wolfmeuller. I enjoy your videos, and your friendly, casual style. I want to make one comment on what you said about Universalists. They don't really believe there is no hell; just not an "eternal" one, and that's also what I've found the Bible to teach.
Also, I read recently that Martin Luther said he believed or hoped there is another chance for souls to be saved after this life, which would make him a universalist of sorts, too. There are mainly two types of Universalism: Hopeful and Corrective, which are sort of self-explanatory. Hoping you have a wonderful week. God bless!
Please provide a citation for your Martin Luther claim.
„A man can do what he wills but he can‘t will what he wills.“
(Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher from 19th century…)
The question for me is:
What is „free will“ worth if it leads straight into eternal pain ?
and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 NASB2020
Behold I stand at the door and knock said Jesus. He comes to the door of every heart. Do we have some choice in answering that knock? We need the Holy Spirit to open the door, but can our sinful nature cause some to refuse.
Thank you
I lean on this logic ,,, God does not condemn men that ought to be saved... BUT HE SAVES MEN that ought to be condemned
It’s an interesting topic with my friends that are baptist. Not easy when the human brain is trying to figure out this ‘trifecta’. Great video pastor
Note, the diagram makes all the difference.
Bryan, you stated that Paul warns in Romans 9 that “If you try to answer this question. If you try to sort it out with your reason then you’re going to fall.” What specific verse(s) are you referring to when you say this? The reason I ask is that the only warning I can find in Romans 9 is Paul warning us about charging the LORD with unrighteousness or injustice concerning His right as the potter to choose and do as He wills. Thank you in advance and I appreciate the video!
The same conundrum is true regarding the passages about universal grace and passages about the elect alone being chosen. They’re both in the Bible.
Just keeping reading in Romans 9. He answers the question very clearly and succinctly in verses 30-33:
"What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written,
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense;
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”"
Christ is the saviour , he died for our sins ,,yeah he died for us that’s why we need know the law and the gospel ..
God grants us the object of our faith. Faith isn't some force given to people to believe. Our faith in Jesus is us agreeing that we cant earn our salvation. That isnt us trying to earn salvation.
All are provided salvation. One way or another. We can live in the truth we know, or take action purposely against the truth and remove ourselves from salvation freely given.
Would the "man" part be considered "free will" if one were trying to explain this? I have the book A Summary of Christian Doctrine by Edward Koehler. It's another great resource. This was one of my books for a class at Concordia, River Forest. It explains LCMS doctrine in layman's terms. I've given several of these books away. I will be looking up your recommendation also.
Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Amen steve 🙏 you sound like a baptist 😇
@@adsdavidson king James gives it away .... J/k
Well the Book of Concord solves this "Crux" rather plainly.
"FC, SD, art. XI, nr. 40 Moreover, even as God has ordained in His [eternal] counsel that the Holy Ghost should call, enlighten, and convert the elect through the Word, and that He will justify and save all those who by true faith receive Christ, so He also determined in His counsel that He will harden, reprobate, and condemn those who are called through the Word, if they reject the Word and resist the Holy Ghost, who wishes to be efficacious and to work in them through the Word and persevere therein. And in this manner many are called, but few are chosen.
41 For few receive the Word and follow it; the greatest number despise the Word, and will not come to the wedding, Matt. 22:3ff ] "
That's not the same as we still see here God desired to save those who rejected Lutherans are clear and affirm God saves man rejects but we do not choose for God.
Some receive the gospel while others reject it (a choice is made on parts). We who receive the gospel of Jesus don't choose ourselves to be saved (saving us is 100% God's doing), but we do choose LIFE (and that by faith), when we repent and take the Son of God into our hearts. It is HIS life that is eternal, as is His Promise to SAVE us from our sins.
All souls will hear the gospel (living and dead) and how we respond to it WILL have eternal rewards or consequences: Eternal life or eternal damnation.
I have been taught that there is a way to reconcile these three circles. As Pastor Wolfmueller pointed out, Arminianism (and it's offspring, American Evangelicalism) requires us to do our part, to exercise our supposedly free will to make a decision for Christ, and thus it's not grace alone. How can we reconcile universal grace and grace alone? If grace is not irresistible, then we can resist the work of the Holy Spirit and refuse the gracious gift of salvation. Arminianism requires us to "opt in" in order for grace to save us, but is it unbiblical to say that grace alone, universal grace, will save us without requiring us to contribute, unless we decide to "opt out" by refusing the gift?
I appreciate this video as a Calvinistic Baptist trying to understand Lutheranism. Do you cover how Lutherans deal with election in another video?
Formula of Concord article XI
@@Mygoalwogel awesome. Thanks.
@@seanmoore9713 No prob. Free online.
If by no answer, you mean, why do some reject the Universal Grace, and others don't. Then I agree, we cannot know (at least not this side of Heaven). However, what we can know, is that those lost are lost because _they_ rejected God's Grace, and not because God withheld anything necessary for their Salvation. Those who are saved received no more Grace than that which was offered to the Lost. God did not desire they Salvation of the Saved more than that of the Lost. The Lost are lost because they hardened their hearts and refused to love the truth, so as to be saved.
Brilliant mate.. 👍
If you can tell to your fallow people to read John 3:16 to 21 and see if there are people that know the existence of God and Jesus but they don’t want to believe in Them,people can shoose because God don’t force you to believe in Him, because It is a gift that you can take it or reject it.
Excellent exposition of the logical inconsistency in the doctrines. But if our God is logical and makes sense, when we study His Word properly, we will not come to any logical inconsistencies in our doctrine. Basically, if our doctrines are illogical, then we worship an illogical god; we worship Irrationality.
There is something absolutely crucial to know about eternal damnation every single time it is mentioned in the Bible:
It never ever says that human beings suffer it, not once. It is only for the devil and his angels.
What do we do with Romans chapter 9 verses 22 to 24?
That's what I was thinking! I really enjoy Pastor Wolfmueller's vids but that was a weak use (proof texting really) of Romans 9.
Timely and well taught, sir.
I am calvinist, but beautiful explanation. Although i came out more calvinist. And i think you don't understand that the decree of God not saving some is also fault of men by calvinist view; is God not saving some from his own decision. God s grace for some and justice for others. So there is a passive decree. But whatever.
Perhaps the reason why these three ostensibly incompatible doctrines cause consternation is not some entirely misplaced application of logic, but rather may have mostly to do with the syllogism as presented.
Here, Bryan draws three circles representing three selected doctrines, makes a few notes next to each, and states that the doctrine of double predestination is ruled out based on the doctrines and associated interpretations selected.
Presuming that we are talking about Christians, we probably need devote little time to Hell - Christians understand that it exists and that people go there. The difference between the Lutherans and the Calvinists is as to just whose action (or lack thereof) causes them to go there.
Looking at "universal grace" - the explanation here might be a little vague. While the Atonement is universal and not limited, while it is for the whole world, the whole world is not justified by it - and there's no small problem of confusion in Lutheranism today concerning this. The sacrifice of Christ on the cross was sufficient to cover all sin, but sin is not forgiven by it apart from faith, which brings us to the third circle. So far we have still not ruled out God's acting to save some but not others. We have a universal Atonement, but not a universal election.
Moving to "grace alone" - both the Lutherans and the Calvinists agree that man cannot choose God, but that it works only the other way around. Man does not work faith in himself, but God alone can work saving faith, and He does this for some and not for others.
The "double predestination" described in Romans 9 is hard to ignore, is favored among Lutherans about as much as James 2:24, and is not included in the sketches and notes here.
When the doctrinal points are fleshed out, although we may reject the other points of Calvinism, it is not a given that double predestination is wrong, and in fact, the Bible contains support for it. This may be a drag, but so is the doctrine of Hell.
Being that it is God alone who works saving faith in man - that which is necessary for salvation - and not man who works up faith by his own doing, how then will we refute the Calvinists when they state that God damns to Hell those from whom, for whatever reason, He withheld the necessary gift of saving faith that He alone can give?
James 2:24 is contextualized by James 2:18.
Every single take on this inevitably runs into paradox. Lutherans choose to adress the paradox up front while Calvinists just push it down stream. The only logical Calvinist is a hyper-Calvinist. The only logical synergist is a full Pelagian.
Maybe the gift of faith was rejected outright, or the "seed" never germinated, or it was neglected and died? This stuff is terrifying! This is why church, fellowship, and study/devotions-- to maintain and even increase one's trust in Christ Jesus and His promises.
This grace that the Father has, ties in with Jesus Christ. So it is by grace through Jesus Christ (faith) that we are saved and not of works. Then those whom do not believe in Jesus Christ will pay their on wage which we know that the wages of sin is death. And so why are some saved and some not saved? It is because Jesus is the gateway to salvation and it is in the first place by grace which God even humbled himself and came obedient to death even the death of the cross my brothers and sisters.
Amen!
Pretty good stuff there, Pastor. In a Scottish context the question might be: Will Rangers fans be saved? And the answer will be.........probably not.
This one is needs to be shared (which I have done).
Universal Grace:
- Are we so sure "world" means all people? Isn't it possible that the Cross was a reversal of the curse on Creation as well, that it would gradually be rolled back?
It wasn't just mankind that was damaged by Adam's sin. It was the creatures, the land, etc. I was under the impression that God was to restore his creation. Why? Because he loved it. And those who are saved get to live in this New Earth.
- Are we so sure that 2 peter 3:9 is a universal thing? Isn't it possible that the all were the people in the church that the letter was addressing?
Calvinism
-If we want to address the claims of Calvinism, we should not do so as a strawman. The theology itself teaches soft determinism/compatibilism. If you read chapter 3 of the Westminster and the 1689, they both make that case. There is no "double predestination" in their teachings.
Both Lutheran and Calvinist teaches predestination, maybe Calvinism is a soft determinism, but Lutheranism would be an even softer determinism than that. That is how I understood it at least.
I believe what is missing in the video, is how Jesus defines what it means to believe. In every parable that Jesus spoke of the kingdom of heaven and tells us what it means to believe.
Jesus tells us that a believer produces fruit. A person may say that he believes, but does soul without repentance. The first words that Jesus preached was to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.
I would love to hear a comment towards what it means to believe.
"'Why are others damned?" Because we have a free will and can say no to God! Jesus says in Mark 1:15 "Repent and believe the gospel". With other words "make a decision for Christ"!
Marianne Hedström Amen it’s so simple.
Man is without excuse BECAUSE he freely rejected what was available to him.
... According to Jonah 2:8 you can forsake the mercy that’s been made available to you:
JONAH 2:8
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their OWN mercy.
Mercy is available to ALL but we can choose to reject it.
They had their OWN mercy.
It was theirs.
They had it.
They forsook what was theirs.
************************************
...According to Hebrews 10:29 there will be those whom the Spirit of grace was offered to but they refused to enter in and instead trampled Christ underfoot.
They did this DESPITE the Spirit of grace that they indeed had:
HEBREWS 10:29
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and HATH DONE DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
************************************
... It’s clear in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 the very reason that some are not saved and perish.
It’s simply and unarguably because THEY RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth.
Not because it wasn’t offered to them but because they freely chose not to receive the gracious offer initiated by God and therefore are legitimately without excuse:
2 THESSALONIANS 2:10-12
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And FOR THIS CAUSE God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned WHO BELIEVED NOT THE TRUTH, BUT HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.
************************************
... According to John 12:48 mankind will be judged based on receiving or rejecting God’s word.
It makes a mockery of God’s Justice if we will be judged on something we are completely unable to respond to:
JOHN 12:48
48 HE THAT REJECTETH ME, AND RECEIVETH NOT MY WORDS, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
************************************
... According to Acts 13:46 there were some who put the word of God sway from themselves and judged THEMSELVES unworthy of eternal life:
ACTS 13:46
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: BUT SEEING YE PUT IT FROM YOU, AND JUDGE YOURSELVES UNWORTHY OF EVERLASTING LIFE, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
************************************
...According to Romans 13:2 those that RESIST what’s available to them (the power and ordinance of God) receive damnation:
ROMANS 13:2
2 WHOSOEVER THEREFORE RESISTETH THE POWER, RESISTETH THE ORDINANCE OF GOD: AND THEY THAT RESIST SHALL RECEIVE TO THEMSELVES DAMNATION.
************************************
... According to Acts 7:52 those with stiff necks RESISTED the Holy Ghost:
ACTS 7:51
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, YE DO ALWAYS RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: AS YOUR FATHERS DID, SO DO YE.
************************************
... According to 1 Thessalonians 5:19 one can QUENCH the Holy Spirit:
1 THESSALONIANS 5:19
19 QUENCH NOT THE SPIRIT.
************************************
... According Ephesians 4:30 one can GRIEVE the Holy Spirit:
EPHESIANS 4:30
30 And GRIEVE NOT THE HOLY SPIRIT of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
************************************
... According to Ezekiel 36:19 we’re judged according to OUR OWN doings:
EZEKIEL 36:19
19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and ACCORDING TO THEIR DOINGS I JUDGED THEM.
************************************
... According to Ephesians 4:18,19 these people’s understanding was darkened meaning it didn’t start out darkened and it’s very clear the reason why it’s been darkened which is from their OWN ignorance and blindness and not from God creating them that way.
In fact vs 19 says that we’re in past times “feeling” but chose to freely give THEMSELVES over.
God didn’t give them over; THEY did:
EPHESIANS 4:18,19
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God THROUGH the ignorance that is in them, BECAUSE of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling HAVE GIVEN THEMSELVES over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
@@apilkey Thank you!
@@apilkey that answers only why some are not saves. However, whenever some is saved, scripture speaks of God’s will being involved and working to save. “None come to me except the Father bring them” (John 6 I believe) most famously outlines the image of God choosing us and bringing us into salvation with out our will involved.
In response to Bryan, I'd like to see you do a drive home re embracing the paradoxes of Scripture. This is but one of many: that God takes credit for saving grace, and blames the unbeliever for unbelief.
In response to the vibe of the comments, it would be just as useful to go back to The Question: How do you get saved? Then how do you know you are? (I credit the qn to Ol' Mate Bretho > Lutheran Pastor > something else)
What I'm not picking up is the appreciation of the miracle and supernatural act in conversion.
Thank you. I love the idea of leaving tension between these verses. I guess I am closest to the synergy idea. After all when we receive a gift we actually have to receive it - accept it. But thank you for reminding me of the mysteries that God has given us to ponder.
Your analysis is familiar and it used to trip me up. Then I heard one of Pastor Wolfmueller's all-time greatest, scripturally-based statements of all time: "Human will is not a tool used in our conversion. Rather, it is the very object of conversion." In other words, nobody wants or even accepts the gift of Christ, for we're all born dead in sin and completely opposed to God, 115%. Yet God overcomes our will with His word and grants us the gift of faith and puts it upon us (even as infants being baptized!). We can choose only to reject the gift of faith (then or later), but never to accept it.
@@jwskud Jn. 15:16 You did not chose me but I chose you. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
@@ronrosenkaimer1096 Yes, Jn 1:13 is one of the clearest scriptures defining monergism, that God chooses us (and we don't choose Him, but rather fight against His Holy Spirit). Other key verses:
Ezek 18:32 and 33:11; Jn 3:16; 1 Tim 2:1-6; Titus 2:11 (God wants all saved, universal grace; see also Acts 7:51 and Lk 13:34)
1 Peter 1:3-5, 9, 23; 3:9 (God wants all saved)
Gen 8:21; Ex 33:19; Ps 53:2-3; Is 55:10-11
Ezek 36:25-27 (baptism, too)
Mt 11:27
Mt 13:18-23 (sower parable; false assumption that all who hear the Gospel will be saved, or that they can never lose their salvation)
Mt 23:37 (Crux Theologorum in a single verse!)
Mk 9:24
Lk 14:15-24* (great banquet parable)
Jn 1:13
Jn 6:44, 63-65 (flesh profits nothing)
Jn 3:6 and 15:5, 16
Acts 1:7 (we don’t know when conversion will occur), 13:48, 16:14, 18:27
Rom 3:28, 8:7, 28-30, 9:16, 10:17 (faith comes from hearing)
1 Cor 1:23, 30, 2:8-14, 12:3 (no one can say Jesus is Lord except by Holy Spirit)
2 Cor 1:22, 3:5, and 5:5
Gal 4:6 and 5:22 (faith is fruit of spirit)
Eph 1:4-5, 19 and 2:5, 8 (1-13 point to Jn 11, Lazarus), 3:14-17, 6:23-24
Phil 1:29; Col 3:12; 1 Thess 1:4 and 4:8; 2 Thess 2:13-14; 2 Tim 1:9; Titus 3:3-8; Hebrews 12:1-2; James 1:18
1 Peter 2:9; 2 Peter 1:1
1 Jn 5:1 (regeneration IS faith)
too bad it's a false idea...
syngergy makes man the determiner of salvation and perverts grace
Ephesians 2 does say saved by grace alone like a ticket to ride song but rotten trees who never get good fruit or only good to burn so how does that fit with your Sola scriptura ideas? 1st Corinthians 3 says all works will be judged by Hellfire for Christians so how do you interpret that with your theology?
I donot understand how you can say, that it is not understandable or explainable, why some are saved and others not. Basically, although God's saving grace is universal, the response to that saving grace is not universal. God offers us salvation - that is, participation in His divine life, here and hereafter, but man can either accept it or reject it. God does not coerce anyone! For, God wants us to love Him freely back, just as He loves us freely. Hell is the eternal state where those who reject God's love and grace, spend their existance without Him. There are other related questions that are not at all so easy to understand, but we leave the rest to God's Providence.
I also have this kind of thinking 2 years ago, that we either accept or reject The Grace of the Lord, that we have participation in our salvation. But thru beloved Pastors teaching us about Faith given by God(that we may not boast)(Eph. 2:8, Romans 3:28,1 Cor. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:9) and the Holy Spirit of Understanding (1 Cor.)that i came to realize, that i have no power/ ability nor help in my salvation. Though i may have participation in my downfall. To be honest, i was so prideful that it had been a hard time for me to understand. Praise be to God for not Giving up on us.
Thank God it was not up to me!
@@dnzswithwombats it is not up to you to get saved, but it is up to you if you commit apostasy and fall away.
@@Solideogloria00 I am in Christ's hands. Peter was restored. Judas was predestined not to be. Romans 8 is a chapter I never tire of.
So you are saying you can save yourself by choosing God?
I don’t know why do saved to me,but I know He does saved me🌹 glory to Him🏝 it’s not from me his grace alone gave me this privilege
Anyone that uses a fountain pen demands respect.
Hi pastor upon hearing this we understand of course that by Grace we are saved but also the Lutheran Faith believes that by baptism we are born again but you did not cover the subject of repentance or the once saved always saved topic. What about in Romans if you die in sin you will not see the kingdom of heaven. Can you explain that? I was baptized as a Lutheran and still consider myself a born again Lutheran, but I went astray for several years if I was to die during that time that I was astray are you still saying that I would go to heaven if I was to die while I was drinking and doing drugs, doing things of the flesh or the world? Plus you didn't mention When the Tribulation would kick in.
Hi. God completes our faith. If you are caught up in the works of flesh, if you are His, don't think for one minute He is going to let you continue in it for long. He is the good shepherd and will get you to repent. Ask me. In his grace, he brought me in line in a way that I had to fear Him. He chastised me in a way that was both horrific and yet full of grace. It had His signature all over it. So, if you are still controlled by your flesh, ask Him to intervene and deliver you. He will respond and deliver you in a manner that may be extremely painful but blessed as well. He chastises those that are His. May our Great God be with you always.
Of these three legs, one is very shaky indeed. The doctrine of eternal conscious torment in hell is not nearly as scriptural as many claim, and the statements about God reconciling the entire cosmos and all people are all over Paul's epistles. Seems to me that we don't need to create an artificial cross for theologians, especially when there are so many real crosses to take up already.
The Bible is clear. If you believe on Christ you are saved. If you don't you are annihilated.
@Mikael Nyman - Perhaps it has to do with man's original flaw; wanting to be sovereign himself. If you accept God's sovereignty through faith, then you are setting aside your own claims to that.
Wonderful explanation. Thank you. I am of Calvinist heritage, yet I believe and was taught what you describe as "Lutheran". The Calvinist view is maybe a sectarian-Calvinist view, as I think that Calvin's Institutions address Universal Grace and its existence is not denied. Later Calvinist Theologians (such as Dr. A. Kuyper) have dealt with this topic in more detail, acknowledging the Universal Grace. Calvinist and Lutherans may be closer related than you think :-)
If God’s grace is meant for and available to all...and...we have to actively reject God’s grace to to to hell...then...babies and the oblivious receive grace by default (given no choice to reject it)? Is that not to know?
I just subscribed. I do believe that lutherans preach the gospel better than anybody else. With that said, and with regard to this video, I do think the doctrine of universal grace is not settled. A strong argument can be made for particular saving grace from Scripture, and also from reading Luther’s “the Bondage of the will” and his commentary on Romans, in both cases young Luther makes a compelling and strong argument for limited atonement and double predestination clearly demonstrating that grace is particular and not universal. Furthermore Luther’s commentary in 1 Timothy 2:4 that “God wants all men to be saved” is compelling in that Luther views it as all classes of men but not all men individually, Luther clearly taught irresistible grace and the perseverance of the Saints. After all if men could resist God’s grace, then every man would do so, but God had to keep a remnant of 7000 for himself as Romans 11:4 teaches. The argument for particular grace is too strong to be dismissed.
There are a lot of errors in your post, sorry
Really ? Why don’t you tell me and others what errors are out there ?@@vester7457
The Crux Theologorum is only a conundrum if you consider surrender to Jesus to be human contribution to salvation. It is not. God created man with free will. If He had created us without free will we would not have been "beings" we would have been fleshly machines. In fact, the only pretext for the Fall of Adam and Eve (and therefore, all mankind) was that they could make a choice to disobey God. And, of course, they did. Since that Fall men and women have been striving to justify themselves before God, before others and before themselves. We cannot seek God of our own accord; He seeks us. We cannot save ourselves; only He can save us. But when, by His Holy Spirit, He addresses our hearts with the invitation to abandon our own efforts at justification He offers us the opportunity to give up on religion and self-justification and accept His substitutionary death and engrafted Word into our lives to save us. Accepting this gift is not a work; not an accomplishment! It is a surrender of our efforts and an acceptance of His provision. We didn't choose Christ...He chose us. All that we did was surrender to Him and acknowledge that He is correct--we are lost and miserable sinners in need of a savior. On the other hand we can, using our free will, choose to deny that God is correct. We can reject the provision of God and doom ourselves to eternal punishment. By acknowledging that surrender to Jesus is not a human contribution to salvation the Crux Theologorum disappears.
Brilliant !
Check out the Lamy Safari fountain pen!!
1 timothy 4:10
ALL will be saved. Jesus isn't a failure
This opens up so many other concerns. I think historical use of this concept caused others to continue in a very carnal lifestyle. I won't debate your argument, since I am not a theologian (I feel this video does a good job capturing the Lutheran view -- which as stated is really not always what we want to hear). I just wanted to give a caveat about what the "ALL" may lead to, which is not really very palatable to most either (consider Hitler, Stalin, etc.). I have spent awhile trying to be more informed. The theological nuances can be daunting to say the least. Blessings on your journey.
All of what? You have to consider the intended audience, the prophets were sent to Israel (Not Jews), Jesus preached to Israel, and the Apostles were sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Are you seeing a pattern? (Jeremiah 31:31, Matthew 10:6, 15:24 & James 1:1)
The "World" Jesus came for is the same "World" Caesar said should be taxed, and it wasn't the entire planet. (Genesis ch 10 describes the Biblical world)
So you believe God grants faith to all (the God part) but some decide to reject it (man)? Being saved is totally passive but rejecting faith is an active decision? Doesn't that mean that the saved made the decision NOT to reject the faith? It seems like you're trying to have it both ways. Idk the answer, but that feels kinda squishy.
He does not believe God grants faith to all. That is not a Lutheran teaching. He believes God wants all men to be saved, and God’s grace is universal (Christ died for all). Lutherans teach election is the cause of faith, so faith is given solely to the elect, even though the holy spirit is present with the word every time the gospel is preached and those that do not believe resist the Holy Spirit. With that said, I posted separately that an argument for particular grace can be made from scripture and the doctrine of universal grace is far from settled and it is not clear from scripture that grace is universal instead of particular.
Justification by faith, not justification by election. Election is the cause of faith, not election is in view of faith.
After pondering this a bit more I think the calvinists have articulated the doctrine of grace in a clearer and better way than the lutherans. Modern calvinists recognize that grace is universal and common to all men (common grace), yet saving grace is particular. Lutherans by rejecting particular grace are making a mistake that Luther never made.
@@mming_my justification is not by faith. Justification is by grace through faith. What is at issue is whether the grace by which we are justified is universal or particular. I am convinced saving grace is particular and in Romans 11 the apostle calls it he “election of grace”. With regard to your comment that there is no justification by election, I think there is, because election is tied to grace and we are justified by grace and not by faith as you wrote but through faith instead. Whom he predestined, he called, whom he called he justified teaches Romans 8, so there is a direct link between election and the effectual call and justification. I wish the Lutheran confessions had not departed so much from Luther. Luther and Calvin agreed on predestination, their only disagreement was on the Lord’s Supper.
But God gave us the free will to accept or reject His free gift not so?
This is a hard teaching for a lot of us to understand.
I like the white board best. (As compared with the light board.) But frankly either is OK with me.
🤪 WHY SO COMPLICATED? Here’s the answer. “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” (Jn3:36 KJV) Simple! 🤗
Think about the morality of this concept, ........WOW ...really?
Lutherans dont believe in saving faith due to not believing in free will.
@@weststeven77 what? :D
John 6
@@koriclaypool9548 Hi Kori. Which particular verses in John 6 are you suggesting reading, as it pertains to the comment you responded to.
Luther in The Bondage of the Will teaches double predestination and has convinced me that this is the teaching of Scripture. Although he accepted that Christ died for all and desires the salvation of all Luther didn't believe in the universal operation of the Holy Spirit in the means of grace as taught by the Formula of Concord.
Luther believed that regenerating grace is particular as is taught in the Augsburg Confession Article V: “To obtain such faith God instituted the office of the ministry, that is, provided the Gospel and the sacraments. Through these, as through means, he gives the Holy Spirit, who works faith, when and where he pleases, in those who hear the Gospel.” (Tappert). If the Augsburg Confession’s teaching agreed with the Formula of Concord's teaching the former wouldn't say that the Holy Spirit “works faith when and where he pleases” but rather the Holy Spirit tries to work faith in everyone through the Gospel and sacraments.
The Scriptures teach that not everyone is granted the Holy Spirit to believe: John 6:64-65 "But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (ESV). Christ in this passage doesn't say the reason why those who heard Him and yet didn't believe Him were that way because they resisted the Holy Spirit, but rather because they weren't granted by the Father (i.e. the gift of the Holy Spirit) to believe. This is in accordance with Romans 9 where Paul clearly teaches predestination to both heaven and hell.
Paul in Romans 11:33 (Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!) isn't saying that logically contradictory positions can somehow be true in God, but rather that we can't understand how God can be just when He saves some and damns others. This is how Luther understood this verse in The Bondage of the Will. He applied it with reference to God's predestination of people to hell near the end of his book (pages 289-293, Vol. 33, Luther's Works). He argued that we shouldn't judge God to be unjust when He predestines some people to hell, the reason being because God's justice is beyond our understanding as Romans 11:33 teaches.
Age of ages, o saw it translated differently. I have some questions and some studying as God said to study.
His three doctrines spell UGH! You can either tiptoe through the TULIP or arrive at UGH! “There is no answer.” If there is no answer then there is, by default, no hope for those headed to Hell! How many times have I heard that salvation is by grace through faith plus nothing and minus nothing? Eph. 2. That sounds like a tenant that this pastor would ‘agree’ with. John 3 says that some are not condemned and some are already condemned. The reason for these two separate conditions hinges on one thing BELIEF. In fact the scripture says it is because they have not believed on the Son of God! The answer is SPELLED OUT in John 3 by none other than Jesus himself. THEY HAVE NOT BELIEVED! Be scriptural, be honest, and be-lieve. That is why some are and some aren’t!
I have to disagree with your conclusion here. There IS an answer to this. It lies in the second bubble - "grace alone." God's grace does save us, but His salvation is conditional. We must still obey God in order to be saved. It is like getting a scholarship to a university. A student on scholarship does not earn his way through school (he's not doing a job and making the money - the money is a gift), but the money IS conditional. The student had to meet the requirements of the scholarship (and likely, continue meeting them) in order to receive the money to pay for school.
So in other words you are a synergist. 😂😉.
Well explained. I like how you address these things directly.
Why any?
There are not 3 separate doctrines. There is one cohesive doctrine
Most folks who claim the name of a dead saint have not read that persons musings on the scriptures. Instead they read voraciously those who might have read what that dead saint wrote. I think all of the "reformers" would be utterly appalled that we insert them into everything and use their names as descriptors of Christendom and attribute to them things they never said, and twist their words to try and seem like we ourselves are somehow seeing less dimly than anyone else. Let's be honest here...do any of us really think we see less dimly than Paul did? No one, including the reformers has/had everything understood perfectly and folks who are believers should stop and reflect on this daily until we are freed from the limits of our corrupted flesh including our minds. Imagine what it will be like to finally not see so dimly, imagine being able to do this spiritual mathematics with ease and see these concepts we struggle with plainly laid out for us. I think that even those not going to Heaven will no longer be blinded by their flesh and that will be their torment. Knowing the truth will not provide them the peace it will provide for us though...just my take.
Thank you!
The saved are those that totally accept JESUS AND JESUS alone as their savior!
They don’t pray to statues ,or their dead relatives,or say repetitious prayers
And think that the dead mother of JESUS is the way.
John 14:6
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
PUT IT IN THE BANK!
One of the most challenging mysteries in scripture is what Lutheran Theologians call the Crux Theologorum, which is Latin for the “Problem of Theology”
I thinks it's tear-jerkingly beautiful that we keep it a problem and don't go beyond Scripture or ignore Scripture to solve it.
@@Mygoalwogel Could you be praying for me?
@@apologiaromana4123 I'm sure God is more pleased with your prayers than he is with mine. What's troubling you?
@@Mygoalwogel This whole limited atonement thing. Online calvinists acting no better than online atheists by repeating the same stuff, using the same rhetoric. It's starting to get to me. I struggle with sin and I wonder if it's because the calvinist is right; if it is God who has left me as reprobate.
@@apologiaromana4123 You struggle with sin because you are still dust. Don't look for a day this side of the Kingdom where you will no longer need to pray, "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors, lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil." That day will only come when Our Heavenly Father carries you home. If you ever *stop* feeling the pain of struggle with sin, be very worried. That's pride, not progress.
Limited atonement is unbiblical.
*Ezekiel 18:23; 33:11* God wants all wicked to repent and live.
*Luke 7:30* God's βουλή (plan/purpose/resolve/counsel) for the Pharisees was to accept them. But they rejected this βουλή of God for themselves, by refusing John's baptism.
*1 Timothy 4:10; 1 John 2:2* He is especially the Savior of believers. He remains the Savior of all people. This makes the labor of evangelism and the reproach of scoffers bearable. He is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the church AND the world.
*John 1:29; 3:16* The lamb of God takes away the sins of the world. God loved the world.
*Luke 11:13* Jesus is emphatic that the Father gives the Holy Spirit to anyone who asks.
*Romans 11:32* Who does God have mercy for? Everyone whom he consigned to disobedience!
I've just said a prayer for you and will pray again in an hour as I go to bed (in Asia).
1 Corinthians 1:27-31
But GOD HAS CHOSEN the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and GOD HAS CHOSEN the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28
and the base things of the world and the things which are despised GOD HAS CHOSEN, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
29
THAT NO FLESH SHOULD GLORY IN HIS PRESENCE.
30
BUT OF HIM YOU ARE IN CHRIST JESUS,
who became for us wisdom FROM GOD-and RIGHTEOUSNESS and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION-
31
that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”
You know the truth but you refuse to believe it
Is there an ELCA church in Oregon that teaches as you do?
Simple answer is no, because there is a world of difference between what the LCMS teaches and what the ELCA teaches…not specifically the topic of election but in general. Search for Pastor Wolfmueller’s video on the differences between the ELCA and LCMS. Maybe also his video “Dear ELCA”. Hope that helps.
@@clintsdatter thank you
No your church was infiltrated. Sorry to inform you of this. Correction our church was. I worship at the Missouri synod now.
This pastor if He was looking for a job.He wouldn't make it past the interview at the ELCA. I split my time between two states. Florida and Vermont. I'm lucky in Florida it's only 20 minutes ride to the LCMS. I'm not as Lucky in Vermont. It's an hour and 20 minutes every Sunday. I do Bible study locally with the Methodist Church. When I'm in Vermont
Because they refused the truth so as to be saved.
What a bizarre belief system. So the same God who creates a universe of uniformity and balance gave us a doctrine of chaos? No.
We earned damnation through sin, and Christ’s sacrifice washes that sin away. But thereafter we must practice righteousness in obedience to God, otherwise we’re spitting on Christ’s sacrifice and earning damnation all over again.
Why are some not saved? Because they choose to go on sinning rather than obey God’s laws.
That's a really well done video! Except I don't think it accurately represents the orthodox Calvinist view. Double predestination should be seen as God passively hardening hearts. Otherwise we would say that God puts evil into man. Calvinist agree that God saves some and that man, left to himself condemns himself. Quoting the same Romans passage you use. But, I would like to hear more about universal Grace. calvinists don't believe that Christ died for all. Because if He did then His work wasn't effectual for everyone. Basically that He didn't or couldn't accomplish what He came to do! Which would be an awful statement to make haha. So I hold to the Calvinist view that Christ died for His elect, fully completing His mission, which we see in the high priestly prayer in John
Genuine question: Who says that would mean that He didn’t accomplish what He came to do? Why couldn’t He die for all yet leave the responsibility fully on man? To me, that shows more that we continue to fail, not Christ.
Hi @@Mals2244 ! A few thoughts. We can say briefly that Christ’s work cleanses us of our sins, satiates the wrath of God against sinners, and credits His righteousness to the believer so that we may stand before the Holy God. If Jesus died for all, then why do some still need to have to be separated from God and experience His wrath in Hell? That would mean that the 3 criteria I mentioned are only effectual for believers as others do not meet that criteria. Therefore to say if Christ died for all, then he must have failed to atone for those who don’t meet those criteria. Im eager to hear any other thoughts you have!
@@kingdomusefulnessHi! Thank you for your thoughts. I think where I get lost here is equating Christ’s death with salvation. We know we must believe in order to be saved but that doesn’t mean that He didn’t die for everyone. It’s like if I make a cake for everyone at a party but not all people eat the cake. It doesn’t change that I made the cake for everyone. It also doesn’t mean that my baking wasn’t effectual. If anything it shows my generosity. The scripture says “all” and “world” and “mankind”. So it seems, according to scripture, that Jesus died for all and yes, it’s only effectual for some on the basis that many deny Him to serve themselves. But It shows just how fallen and unrighteous we are, but doesn’t take from Who God is and the work He does.
@@Mals2244 I appreciate your thoughtfulness here! Our views may differ a bit in our understanding of regeneration. Where you’re saying that it is our responsibility to believe but I would say that I would have never believed if I wasn’t first regenerated. I’m thinking about Ephesians 2:1 where we are spiritually dead and incapable of believing. Also, I would challenge you to really look at the contexts where universal language is used and see if it really means “all people without exception”. This all is certainly too complex for a comment section, haha. If you’re interested to be equipped and understand a Calvinist perspective and why some folks don’t believe that Christ died for all, I suggest reading “Chosen by God” by R.C. Sproul. Thanks for your kind interaction!
@@kingdomusefulness yes we differ. I’ve read sprouls book, attend a 5-pt church and have studied Koine Greek. I believe Calvinism is similar to when Satan said “did God really say?…[He loved the whole world]”. I think you’ve misinterpreted and placed philosophy on “dead in sins” that isn’t there in Eph 2:1. It says these are people refusing God, so they are separated and dead (they are headed to hell so pretty dead outside of eternal life) outside of a relationship with God. But they aren’t dead and it doesn’t say they’re “spiritually dead”… they are still humans with the ability to function and respond to a call from God.
2 Peter 3:9:
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
With your logic, God wants everyone to come to repentance but He can’t accomplish that so He fails. I’m applying the logic used of ineffectual grace to this used earlier.
I don’t hold this belief
You are a likable fellow, for sure, but that doesn't determine your ability to properly divide the scriptures.
For example: there is no hope of understanding the doctrine taught by God in His Bible without a strict and dogmatic stance that values context very highly. This seems to be a deterrent and an obstacle for many "ministers" of the Bible.
As a starter....John 3.16 can not be properly understood without a minimal understanding of the entire chapter, and then arriving at an honest interpretation of 3.16. The same for 2 Peter 3.9, in that that word "us-ward" does not describe universal decree. "Audience" is another essential discovery for the proper interpretation of scripture
If you believe in Jesus and recieved God's grace you are saved. You will never lose it.
People fall away...
the whole world meaning mankind. God chose from those he knew from before he created time. those he didn't know beforehand for the fire. God said that he knew us before he created us here on earth. does that mean that we knew him too? if we did he removed or erased that from our memory like he will the memory of us on earth when we're in heaven... to dry our tears from knowing the fate of those we love that are in hell because they didn't believe.. . were getting close. see you'll on the other side. fight a good fight.. see ya ...soon?
TLDR: the answer is.....there is no answer
God saves those whom He chooses, while the rest damn themselves. The catch is this: God chooses those who choose Him.
So, God saves those who choose Him?
What connects the three is simple.. it is man's ability to Choose.. Believe or not Believe... that IS Free will... where we spend eternity depends on our choice to either accept Christ's sacrifice OR reject the Plan... it is totally our decision and God obviously wants ALL to choose his PLAN...
Except Paul clearly speaks against this notion, saying that he has not come to faith by his own power so that he has no reason to boast of himself.
The Holy Spirit "draws' us towards salvation... God never forces himself upon anyone.. we receive this free gift by Believing the Gospel.. Belief is our choice... Sooo yes we cannot respond until we are called first... then it is up to us to accept the free gift offered... If we aren't free to accept or reject the the message of the Bible.. then none of this makes any sense at all
@@robertw1258 scripture says we are completely dead in our sin and trespasses, and also, again, that we have faith in which we cannot boast. 2 rather clear verses showing that we cannot and do not contribute to our salvation. You are giving the old bridge analogy..... canyon between you and God, the cross falls and becomes a bridge, and then it's up to you to walk across it to God. No. God grants you faith, and there is 0% you can do spiritually without him first granting faith.
As for losing faith, we do teach that. Paul makes it obvious in teaching about shipwrecking your faith and worrying about perseverance and such.
So what happens then to all the people that God "doesn't" grant Faith to ???