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the Lutheran response to Postmillennialism
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2022
- Theology is life. Here's a dose of Biblical teaching and reflection from Pastor Bryan Wolfmueller of St Paul and Jesus Deaf Lutheran Churches in Austin, TX.
Today's question is...
Hi there, thank you for your videos, they’ve been helpful for me in learning about Lutheranism.
Can you please explain to me the problems with postmillennialism (both puritan and modern postmil), seven mountains dominion theology, etc? I’ve been having a hard time finding lutherans who discuss the issue and I’m having a hard time reinterpreting passages that I’ve been taught teach postmil.
Also, could you please teach about the four views of revelation? Historicism, Preterism, Futurism, and Idealism? Which is right?
The reason I ask is because I want to understand the Augsburg confession article XVII, which condemns the idea of postmil, which has been engrained in my head.
Thanks for you help.
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Thanks Pastor. I'm Postmil & LCMS... I know, I know...NOT CONFESSIONAL! Can't help it though. I'm very optimistic for the future and see Christ ruling and reigning now. Doug Wilson, Jeff Durbin, etc are the best sources for modern Postmil.
Don't' forget Ken Gentry. His book He Shall Have Dominion is phenomenal!!!!
Amazing. 30 years Amil and I learned some more. The fear with some Premil folks, is that if you read 1,000 years as figurative, then you must read everything else as figurative in the Bible. Can you hear it? "We must read scripture literally!!" Absolutely, when the context reveals it or tells you to do that. When it tells you I received a picture or a dream or a vision and it tells you the author asks, what does this mean? and it tells you lamps are churches, you know it is to be read figuratively. When it tells you there is a sun to mark the days and nights and it then tells you 6 days to create and then a day of rest, we must read it as literal 24 hour days.
So we answer the question to our opponents "Do you read scripture literally of symbolically." We say yes.
"This IS my body." Chew on that for a minute.
Opponents?
Atheists are the first opponent that come to my mind
This clear unfolding of the doctrine of the millenium is really nice. It shows how years of distilling and refining thoughts make them seem so simple. Thanks Pastor Wolfmueller.
I love how the Word of God just flows so effortlessly while you’re driving and talking. Such a beautiful example of having the word of God on your heart!!
I am thinking about joining LCMS. I agree with most everything, but I have a problem with the end times eschatology. Do you have to believe in this view in order to join the church? It seems to me that this version of eschatology is not a result of any plain reading. If you are engaged in a plain reading you wouldn't make a clear period of time, such as 1000 years, into an allegorical representation of an undefined period of time. John wrote Revelation. The first three chapters he deals with contemporary events of his day, but as soon as you get to chapter 4 he states that everything which he is about to talk about has not yet happened. "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."--Revelation 4:1. The plain reading is that everything described from then on has not yet happened at the time of his writing, including Satan being bound and thrown into the bottomless pit. BTW, I don't believe in the rapture theory either. The rapture theory is also not a result of a plain reading of the text, but rather it's wishful thinking which is inferred into the scripture, but I was able to join my current church without being in agreement with their end times eschatology.
God is the best teacher of all.
Just listened another three times. It’s very clear. Thank. ‘He wants us to focus on the cross and the resurrection’.
I'm ex-Methodist. Born and raised but renounced the Methodist Church after they ordained their first "non-binary" (born female) preacher. After that I left organized religion (Not my faith in Christ) and recently discovered LCMS and am VERY intrigued. I feel like I'm on the right path with the LCMS but I have to say, I'm very much pre-mil. Neither post nor Amil makes any sense to me and the one thing I have found and believe with all my heart and spirit is the the Lord is logical. Hopefully this doesn't stop me from being LCMS but if it does I guess that's ok and I'll just keep looking.
As a post mil, I agree with you about when Satan was bound, and all the other post mils I know believe the same. The other differences you mentioned do hold true.
I'm postmil and I actually agree with everything you say. I think the primary difference between a and post is the optimism of the great commission's success and what does it actually mean that Christ is reigning. Most amil seem to just spiritualize that Jesus is reigning in heaven but not on Earth and postmil typically say he is reigning over both heaven and earth.
I enjoyed all your comments but I think we actually agree 😄
Thanks for the video. I've been looking to hear more from Lutherans on why they reject Postmillennialism. I think another Lutheran RUclipsr said postmillennialism undermines the Law/Gospel distinction, though I'm not sure how.
As far as the video's content (I consider myself Postmill), I would say it sounds like you were describing the Postmillennialism affirmed by men like Greg Bahnsen, Gary North, etc. back in the 80s. Most modern postmillennialists who I listen to would agree that Satan's binding began with Jesus' work and it continues today. The difference between us is what is accomplished in the time of the millennium. We think that during this period of Satan's binding, Jesus' kingdom will expand over the whole of the earth resulting in every nation bowing to Him in worship. Then, He returns.
I'll note that we believe that the kingdom is here and arrived in Jesus' ministry. This is mentioned in Luke 11:20, then it goes into the verses you mentioned about the strong man being plundered. I'll also say that when Matthew 24 is compared with the parallel verses in Mark 13, it seems clear that Jesus is symbolically discussing the destruction of the Temple and not the end of the world.
A few of the things that convinced me of postmillennialism:
1. Many verses discussing the expansion of the kingdom have "expansion to completion" aspects. I think this can only be explained by postmillennialism.
2. Great Commission's efficacy is directly connected to Jesus' authority. Jesus explains that all authority on heaven and earth belongs to Him and tells us to go (not "try to") baptize the nations and teach them obedience. Consider Daniel 7:13-14 as well.
3. All covenants in Scripture are related to conquest of the earth, and their failure or success is dependent on people's walking with the Lord. Jesus' covenant w/ us is like these, and because He cannot fail to walk before the Father perfectly, the success of the conquest is guaranteed. The Great Commission isn't really accomplished if Jesus comes back when the world is only partially evangelized. (Covenants: Adam to subdue world, repeated w/ Noah, Abraham's family to bless all families of earth, Moses beginning of Israel nation that is supposed to enlighten and draw other nations in, David's Son to rule forever.)
Thank you for that 2 Peter 3 observation by the way. I never made that connection between what he says about the 1000 years and the millennium.
Hermeneutic determines eschatology. I like that. My own view is that we are now in the millennium. So, I’m a-mil. Btw, I am Dutch Reformed and that is most common position in our denomination. In the confessional Reformed and Presbyterian denominations we are seeing a group of post-mil, reconstructionists blossoming, as happened 50 years ago. Your explanation was very helpful.
Been reading/believing Revelation since 1967 & your explanation of post-mil vs. a-mil has helped me tremendously. Thanks.
Well summarised. Thanks.
Bryan wolfmueller, you should check out Douglas Wilson.
But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. My 24:36
It’s above our pay grade. We do what the blood of Christ has freed us to do, give witnesses to it. Amen.
I'm persuaded by New Covenant Theology and I agree with Amellianism. Thanks Bryan. An especially good job because you did that while driving.
Post-mil has become quite popular in more conservative Anglican and Reformed circles (e.g. NT Wright, Doug Wilson). In my experience, Lutherans and Catholics tend to be A-mil in the tradition of Augustine. Both perspectives seem to interpret “these end times” as referring to the time between Jesus’s ascension and His coming again in glory on the Last Day.
Heretic here. Don't forget preterism. With the postmills they have partial preterism - see Ken Gentry "When Jerusalem Fell". But I think full preterism brings the most clarity. Lots of presuppositions to work through. We should be very hopeful and working for the love and glory of the Lord all the days of our lives. We do that which will benefit our great grandchildren and beyond. Love br. David - Canada.
I have a question.
Do you have a video or can you do one on all the different sects of Lutheranism and their differences?
Not sure anybody has this sorted but this is the best explanation of the a-mil position I have heard. Question: If Satan was bound by the work of Christ on earth why is Revelation said to be about things "that must shortly take place"?
The a-mil position also raises the question of "if the binding of Satan was done in the work of Christ on the cross, then what does his loosening at the end of the 1,000 years represent?"
It is like the simple passage in 1st Thessalonian that when Christ returns the dead in Christ will rise first and then those that are alive and remain will be caught up with Christ (aka the rapture). Who knows exactly what that means? Nobody understands exactly what that means and how it fits in. What exactly happens, how does that happen, where do the people go that Christ is talking about? We do not know and we are not told. It would be pure conjecture to try to figure that out and teach it to others.
It's The Spirit God that draws us to repentance and you aren't not can't be a Child of God unless He The Spirit of God Draws you to The Lord
Does the literal 1000 years end during the night of the 999th year and 365th day? Exactly 11:00pm Central? Will there be a countdown clock like on New Year's Eve?
COUNTDOWN TO MILLENIAL END
9 days 2 hours 25 seconds
BTW, Chad Bresson was my pastor in Ohio. I enjoyed the interview you did with him.
Saying Augsburg 16, didn't Luther said that popes and councils have been wrong in the past why can't they be now?
Could you do a video on the two witnesses?
I adore LCMS teaching, but the only place I struggle is with the amil view. Everyone I know in the Postmil camp, including me, believe that Satan is bound right now. But, the issue is in the corrupted hearts of mankind. I believe those are the gradual manners of conquest, with death being the final enemy defeated on Christ's Return. But I see the gradual conquest of the nations, tribes and tongues will be apparent as we get closer and closer.
Hi, Pastor Wolfmueller, I'm postmillennial and I agree with you as to when Satan was bound. I believe Satan was bound during Jesus's earthly ministry, and that Jesus is ruling and reigning now in Heaven but we don't see it YET here on earth. That is why He was able to give us the Great Commission, because He has "All Authority in Heaven and Earth", and because He has All Authority, He told us to "preach the gospel to all people-groups, baptizing them". The Kingdom is like yeast in the dough, slowly having a pervasive influence on the world, and one day, we certainly shall see His Kingdom come "on earth as it is in Heaven" as we are commanded to pray. It will come about by the spread of the Gospel. A great book that illustrates the pervasive influence of the Gospel on the world in just the past 2,000 years is "What If Jesus Had Never Been Born?" by Kennedy and Newcombe. We need not pessimistically interpret Jesus's words in the negative, "when the Son of Man comes shall He find faith on the earth?" Because of the power of the Gospel, He will! It may not be our generation that sees it, but by faith we can see a future day when all people-groups are disciples of the Lord, and then He shall return to destroy the last enemy - death. His millennial reign is realized in a sense, hidden in Heaven, but in another sense, unrealized. I'm partial-preterist; Jesus's return is future while Revelation 1-19 relate events that took place from 63-70 C.E. (Christ's Empire). As Jesus promised in Mark 10:29-31, there will be many people (us included) who will give us homes, lands, and families for the sake of the gospel, making the world a better place for those who come after us. Mark 10:29-31 is the definitive passage against the so-called "seven mountains mandate"; the Kingdom does not come by worldly means, but through the preaching of the Gospel over centuries of persecution. I've also written a postmillennial commentary on Revelation, "The Great Unveiling", available on Amazon if you want to check out my own views more in depth.
Hi Michael, I have a question concerning Satan being bound. Is he still bound or was he unbound after Jesus earthly ministry?
Yes, we recognize, honor and revere the work Jesus has done for us. Jesus would recognize our work if we did the work He asked us to do. It's all there in Matthew 5:2-13. Can we? We must try. Give Jesus a reason to lift us up when we fail, and acknowledge the relevance of the Word in our lives. Theology is life.
God bless you
If the devil is already bound. Then why are we still battling demonic forces? Why is there still so much evil in the world? Also what is the Lutheran perspective on Daniel and Ezekiel’s prophecies about end times. Also what is the Lutheran perspective on the great tribulation?
I agree that 'amillenialism' is the best interpretation of scripture. We should note also, however, that the period between the 1st and 2nd comings of Christ involves both the growth of the Gospel - filling the earth over time - and ALSO a period (a short period?) before Christ's return when a 'restraining power' will be removed (when Satan will be again more effective at deceiving the nations?), and there will be what HENRI BLOCHER (in his book 'Evil and the Cross') calls 'a virulent counter-attack'. Are we perhaps in that time now? ....interested in anyone's thoughts on this...
I have speculated that could be the case, but I'm not totally convinced either. We are in a bit of regression right now, but compared to how far we have come since the time the books were written we're still far better off.
Postmillennials will use the argument that those dead in their sin will double down on it and ultimately succumb. That is one big agreement I have with them.
These people murder their own offspring before they are even born or refuse to have kids entirely. Eventually they will die off being unable to sustain themselves. They suffer punishment for their ways with disease or obesity making them more susceptible to severe illness.
The devil being "unbound" isn't necessary for today's wickedness at all. Mankind is innately sinful. That's also the argument that can be used for those saying "look at how wicked the world is, surely the devil couldn't possibly be bound now!"
But yes, its theoretically possible we're in the "short" period where the devil has become unbound. Personally I'm not yet convinced, but it is something to consider. The time around the two World Wars was pretty bad, too, though.
I tend to be a-mill, but what would you make of Peter’s comments the devil walks about (present tense) seeking whom he may devour? (1 Peter 5:8)
That goes into the the whole faith it happened. As far as we can tell and see the devil is still lurking about. However it's clear from scripture he's been bound.
We probably need to review our understanding of "the devil, satan, the deceiver, the dragon, the adversay the opposer of the bretheren. Maybe too much Dante?. Love br. David - Canada.
The "Millenium" ("Miliadierum"; Daniel 11:33 Peshitta) would begin as in Zechariah 14:2-5; Joel 3:2; Matthew 24:15, 16; Luke 21:20 KJV. The "Millennium" will end the same way it began, with armies marching against Jerusalem (Revelation 20:9 KJV), after the "Millennial" last ministry of God's Word by His Saints to the fallen world during the "Millennium". Satan's binding would be that of the fall of Civilization ("Babylon"), Civilization being Man's attempt at self-providence instead of reliance on God's Providence (His creation -- Nature), ever how dearthy He makes that for us, we humans tending to exalt ourselves whenever given anymore than bare subsistence by Him (cf. Genesis 3:17-19, 22-24; 6:6; Deuteronomy 8:2; Isaiah 45:7; Matthew 5:45; 6:26; Revelation 17-20 KJV).
Thank you.
So we are to throw out Revelation chapter 20 because we don't understand and are not told all the details we would like to know but God chose not to reveal to us. Let us not take literally what is written as literal. Why would we be bound by reason and sanity?
I've only recently shifted from dispensational premill (I grew up in a Pentecostal church and read Left Behind) into preterist (partial, not full) amill over the past couple of years.
I can see some arguments of post millennials but I'm not convinced of the argument in general.
If what you say is true, Pastor Wolfmueller, what about the verse in Revelation 21:3 that after the 1000 years, the devil must be released for a little while?
When I read and study the Word this is how I begin to perceive it.
The Return of Yeshua at the Last Trumpet which is the beginning of the Lord's Day!
Old Testament References Prophesying His Return:
Joel 2:1-3, 28-32
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
Zechariah 14:1-9
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
Amos 5:18-27
18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.
25 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?
26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves.
27 Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord, whose name is The God of hosts.
There are probably more references than this, but this should suffice. Another great reference not listed here is Ezekiel 13. It doesn't speak specifically about the Lord's Day directly, however, indirectly it does give great warning towards those who teach false doctrine especially in regards to the "rapture theory" of the church flying away before his return. Yeshua never teaches that. He teaches in the Resurrection or transformation of our flesh bodies into our Spirit Bodies on the Day of his Return.
(continued...)
(...continued)
New Testament References:
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Luke 21:27-28
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, 5:1-4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Corinthians 15:50-58
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
2 Peter 3:3-12
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Revelation 20:1-8
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
When is his return? At the Last Trumpet! When is this? Immediately after the Great Tribulation and the Fall of Mystery Babylon!
Hey Bryan, I think Dispensational Pre -Millennialism must be true, it looks like Luther got raptured from your back seat:)😊
🤣🤣🤣Good one!
Postmillennialism via Partial preterism would not view the 1000 years as literally.
Historical Postmillennialism does.
What are your thoughts on the George N H Peters and his work: The Theocratic Kingdom?
Subscribed because of this video. Thank you
The devil is currently bound and the ministry of Jesus is now in postmil
Seriously???
When was he bound? 2 Cor 4:4?
“We are not lookaroundists” 🤣. Good stuff
Thank you for this thorough explanation. My belief was set in the a millennial space, you helped me understand my own thoughts better. If that makes sense🤔God bless you.
My question is what do you do with verses like 1 Peter 5:8-9 and 2 Timothy 2:25-26 which talk about the devil and his prowling activity in this present age?
While I'm not Pastor Wolfmueller, I am a former seminary classmate of his and a current LCMS pastor, and would like to submit a response.
The devil is both conquered and yet still fights. One useful comparison is like the end of World War 2. WW2 was officially over when the treaties of surrender were signed in 1945. However, the battles continued after that fact. The last Japanese soldier still fighting WW2 surrendered in the 1970s (Hiroo Onoda I believe was his name).
This is similar to the devil, who is conquered and defeated by Jesus at His death (Gen. 3:15; Heb. 2:14). However, as you rightly point out about 1 Pet. 5 and 2 Tim. 2, the devil still prowls like a lion and lays snares. The war is over, even though he continues to fight his skirmishes.
“Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.”
Ephesians 6:11 ESV
Or we could pretend the devil is already chained up?
The Coming of Jesus Christ…
“Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”
2 Thessalonians 2:1, 3, 7-10 ESV
A nation is “Christian” when a large majority of its people are baptized and they acknowledge the lordship of Jesus in their civic life. To dismiss the notion of a “Christian” nation by saying that people can be baptized but peoples cannot is not giving the subject due consideration. As a Lutheran I would want to separate so-called Christian Nationalism from post millennialism. We do not want a Christian nation to usher in the millennium or the Second Coming. But what are Christians supposed to be doing in civic life if not striving toward righteous government under god-fearing magistrates?
Ehhh i think we need to understand that a nation back then was not the same as a nation now, back then a nation was somewhat analogous to an ethnic group but with nationalism came the rise of nation-*states* which we call nations as a short hand.
@@ulty1472 Whether nations are very small (constituted essentially as ethnic groups) or large (nation-states), the question for us as Christians is what do we mean when we say, "Jesus is Lord"? Is Jesus the Lord only over the church, and not over the state? Is he Lord only over ethnic nations, but not nation-states? If Jesus is Lord over all, what shape does that take for us today as we live in the polity we have been given? If the question, "What would Jesus want our City to do with the thief, or the adulterer, or the murderer?" is something you care to ponder before making a decision on the laws relating to such matters, then you are what the heathen pejoratively call, a Christian Nationalist.
Hi pastor, just a couple of observations. the Apostle John says Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil (1Jn 3:8), not the devil himself. The Apostle Paul refers to the devil as the god of this world (2 Cor 4:4), and the Apostle John says the whole world lieth in wickedness or as the KJV puts it "lieth in the evil one" (1Jn 5:19). It seems to me, according to the previous verses, Satan (devil) is still granted quite a bit of freedom. I'm curious how A-mil or post-mil squares with 2Tim 3: 12-13? Thank you, Pastor, really enjoying the class on Luther's Genisis.👍👍
Love your stuff by the way but I love post millennialism.
Hi Pastor Bryan,
Would the belief of a Rapture be tied to Premillenism?
While im not the guy you ask i’ll try my best to given its been 6 months
So there a few camps some pre-mils like dispensationalist do and others like historic pre-mils i believe don’t.
Love your videos! This my understanding from an historic premil view. So my Amil and Post-Mil friends would agree that satan and death are defeated currently yet there still remains a final defeat we are waiting for that would rid of death and satan permanently. This my understanding of how scripture lays that out.
My understanding of the defeat of satan and the defeat of death are very connected for he is the one who holds the power of death and both the defeat of satan and death of death is in three stages that the Bible teaches. Notice satan is defeated and death is also defeated following after.
Stage 1
Jesus death and resurrection- 1st defeat
1. The defeat of satan with Christ death.
Hebrews 2:14, Colossians 2:15
2. The defeat of death with Jesus resurrection following after.
1 Corinthians 15:20
Stage 2
Jesus 2 coming and start of the millennium -
2nd defeat.
1. Upon Jesus return satan is bound for a 1,000 years - figurative or literal time - Revelation 20:1
2. First resurrection- those asleep in Christ are raised following after.
Revelation 20:4
Stage 3
The end of the millennium- 3rd defeat
1. Satan is cast in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10
2. The second resurrection of the lost and Death is cast in the lake of fire following after. Death is the last enemy to be defeated in this third and final blow to both Satan and death before we see the new heaven and new earth. Revelation 20:14
I think @Pr Wolfmueller answered all of what you just said in this video.
Honestly i can only see myself as amil or historic pre-mil. Dispensationalism is just an excuse to not evangelize to jews and albeit only in the modern times excuse for “Israel”’s mass murder of Palestinians (both muslim and CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!) without any condemnation.
Postmil comment
I’m not quite sure where to stand on eschatology, but how do you deal with the fact that Revelation 20 talks about an angel binding the Devil? Christ wasn’t an angel, so does that mean that this isn’t Christ? Or would you understand this more in the sense of The Angel of the Lord?
A parallel to Michael in Revelation 12. The Lord's death and resurrection disarms the devil, and takes away his authority in the heavenly council. Then the angels execute his expulsion.
Why is Jesus coming? Why hasn't he come?
Jesus Himself said Matthew 24 37 and on if I go and Prepare a place for you I will come again and receive you unto my myself that we're I am you maybe also. He's coming back , it's not His will that any one would perish but all would come to Him and repent . It doesn't matter what anyone says, but what does the Word of God say?
Given the modern conversation about “Christian Nationalism,” this was a timely answer.
I'm not sure quite what you mean based off this comment, but in my experience most Christian Nationalist people are premil types. I go to a very fundie Baptist church, (not by choice) and they sing hymns about America and plenty of other patriotic things.
@@LoganJP0120 What I've seen of it comes from people like Joel Webbon of Right Response Ministries (Calvinist-Presbyterian-Postmil) and Stephen Wolfe.
@@Outrider74 I can't deny these two. I wouldn't take anything right response does too seriously though. There are plenty of other things wrong with his ministry other than Nationalism.
I would be interested in hearing more about this, if you don’t mind.
Christ will use the church to convert all the nations. Which Christ said " all authority of heaven and of earth have been giving to me, thus go and disciple all nations tribes and tounges.
You cant baptise homes, universities, music, movies, so i guess none of those things can be christian either.
Well, covenantally... you'd be correct. They can't. Other than households, of course, but that's the people in them rather than the house itself.
Huh? That sounds like a straw man argument. You can’t Baptize your Bible so does that make it non Christian?
@@rudyb690 exactly. Yet apparently you can’t have a Christian nation because you can’t baptise a nation.
Why is a household a Christian household? Or a University a Christian University? Because the leaders of each are Christians and wield the authority given to them in light of Christian/Biblical morals/ethics/etc. yet for some reason, this can’t carry over to a nation despite our predesessors believing it could?
Or perhaps something changed in the postwar consensus that convinced Christians that in this one specific case, it just doesnt work? 🤔
It's hard to be a Christian nation when you commit war crimes and allow heretics to write your founding documents and influence your thoughts. As much as reformed thinking influence American revolution so did the enlightenment and unitarians
im so glad i left the lutheran religion, this man is so confused trying to explane the catching away, so sad,
My opinion Post-millennialism is a lot like universalism: depressingly optimistic but not damnable. Curious to hear Bryan’s!
Pre and postmillenialism was never the hope of anyone in scripture. They wouldn’t have died with false hope. End of story. Their hope was to go and be with God in Heaven.
I'm Lutheran, but deffintly premill....
Why?
@@walterfielding9079 Because the scripture says that.
I am LCMS. So am I supposed to be A-Mil?
That is there official position
@@ulty1472 , Thank you!
@@baker_canner 👍
you can't baptize a nation, only people...
Israel was baptized in the Red Sea…
1 Corinthians 10
Thanks for sharing brother! Love you man!
I am watching for the rapture/event to happen TONIGHT Thursday, November 17th-18th during the LAST day of the true feast of tabernacles November 8th/10th - 16th/18th (1 month behind) on the TORAH calendar, and 10 days (10 day warning) after the last full blood moon eclipse for 3 years on November 8th, the last blood moon eclipse occurred on May 15th/16th 2022 during true Passover (1 month behind).
The blood moon tetrad in 2014-2015 occurred twice on Passover and twice on the feast of tabernacles, Jesus already fulfilled Passover.
On Monday November 14th 2022 Russia backed their troops out of a city in Ukraine, On September 21st 2022 on a rare national address Putin's thinly veiled warnings signaled he was willing to raise the risk of nuclear conflict to avoid an embarrassing military defeat.
A few brothers and sisters have had dreams or were told by God/Jesus that the rapture would happen on a Thursday!
In the bible it mentions 10 days of testing/persecution in the books of Daniel and Revelation.
A possible deadline for the rapture and tribulation to start is November 17th which gives us exactly 7 biblical years (2520 days) until the true feast of trumpets (1 month behind) on October 11th 2029 at the end of the next Shemitah year and the end of the fig tree generation.
Acts 2:20 - "The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the lord"
It is highly possible that we are now in the true Jubilee year after the feast of trumpets and the day of atonement.
Rabbi Judah Ben Samuel prophesied in 1217 AD that Jesus would return during a Jubilee year.
In Leviticus 25:54 it says "‘Even if someone is not redeemed in any of these ways, they and their children are to be released in the Year of Jubilee, for the Israelites belong to me as servants. They are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt. I am the Lord your God."
In the song "Days of Elijah" it says "Lift your voice, the year of Jubilee and out of Zion's hill salvation comes".
The next Jubilee year is in 50 years, we could not possibly last another 50 years because we are already at the brink of global nuclear war with Russia.
In the video "I pet goat 2" it portrays a 2nd 9/11 event and it shows a tiger on an Asian girls coat (2022 is the year of the tiger).
In the classroom scene it shows a 25 cent/quarter coin, on November 16th the moon is in its last quarter.
At the end of the video when Jesus is leaving it shows a scorpion tale in the clouds right next to the sun. The sun enters the constellation Scorpio on November 16th 2022 until December 16th.
On my channel there WAS a video of a sister that had a very detailed vision of the rapture/event (RUclips deleted it), she says that the rapture/event will be a bright white light lasting a few minutes and we will be transformed into our heavenly glorified bodies and brought up to heaven. There may also be a loud trumpet sounded right before the rapture.
We will not experience any pain during the rapture/event.
I give full glory to God/Jesus for this message because I have been praying everyday for God/Jesus to reveal this information to me so that I can share it with everyone.
See you in heaven!
Pray and repent of your sins to God/Jesus, not to be saved, but to show respect to God/Jesus and strengthen your relationship.
"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son/Jesus and believes in him shall have eternal life/be saved, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
- John 6:40
God/Jesus loves everyone of you like as if you were the only person in the entire universe!
Share this message with your family and friends!
God bless you and your family!
Can you post back tomorrow if you’re still here?🤔
@@logicaredux5205 Following
Matthew 12:39
I'm pretty sure I read this exact copy/paste elsewhere and it said Nov. 16 instead of Nov. 17. Will we get a Nov. 18 version tomorrow?
I still have a t-shirt from 2014-15 that I got from Pr. Chris Rosebrough's "Fighting for the Faith" podcast ministry that says, "I survived four blood moons and the Shemitah, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt."
The souls who were beheaded in Revelation 20 were not beheaded due to their testimony about Jesus and about God's word, INSTEAD, they were beheaded BECAUSE OF THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS AND BECAUSE OF THE WORD OF GOD.
Due to the powerful testimony of Jesus and the word of God, their former heads which are evil and were leading them into sinful lives were cut off or removed above them and Christ became their new head. Therefore, they took part in the first resurrection of souls... it is the resurrection of souls, not bodies. They became one among the living souls and not of the dead ones anymore. Moreover, they are now using their bodies as their living sacrifices and as tools to proclaim God's glory. That is the work of priesthood. All souls who will have a part in this resurrection are now called immortal souls because they have now immortal spirits.
Rom. 6 says that the "first death" is actually the washing of water with the Word in Holy Baptism, and the gift of Baptismal regeneration that it gives by the Word in and with the water.
HA! You're all wrong. (doesn't that sound good to say?) Yes, yes...I know all about the logs in eyes, but in this case, it's true. For a extremely simple example of why I am right, just read the very first three sentences of Revelation. No symbology. No hard words or difficult concepts. Just an introduction to the letter. Now consider being charged by Jesus to record a prophesy in order to warn. You would want to know WHO was getting the warning. And WHEN were things going to happen before you ever started going over the WHAT. This isn't rocket science, people. But centuries of traditional interpretations are difficult to unravel. People like to mythologize.
The Lord will return and for those who are not looking for Him they won't be going
Taking your challenge that Revelation is meant to be read literally by just looking at the first three sentences, I will answer your challenge and defend the view that almost all of Revelation is meant to be read symbolically.
The very first verse begins "The Revelation of Jesus Christ," which is the title in English. (The title in Greek is "The Revelation to John"). Here we see why this is meant to be read symbolically. The word "Revelation" in the Greek is "Apokalypsis," which also indicates a type of literature around in the 1st century that included fantastical, out of this world events and characters. This type of literature was never meant to be a literal, newspaper type publication of what was going to happen. It was always read figuratively.
Secondly, in Rev. 1:1, we also see that this "Revelation" was not only given to John, but "signified" to John. The Greek Word "eseymanen" can mean "to make known or predict," but it is the verbal form of the noun "seymeion", which is sign or miracle. The fact that the entire Revelation to John is given as a sign means it is to be read figuratively. That's because in the NT, signs were given to express that something else would happen or was certain. The literal understanding of a sign benefitted no one. The meaning of a sign was always connected to something else that would be made certain. In the case of Revelation, it is connected to the early Christian theology and understanding of hope that is certain, while the sign itself is not meant to be literally understood.
@@robertmayes640 By that standard, the title itself is symbolic. But that makes no sense whatsoever. No, Revelations is a warning to the seven churches of Asia Minor with an apocalyptic of what was to shortly take place.