I now have a full suss xc bike for bikepacking ( Trek Supercaliber) after hardtails and full rigid, best thing Ive ever done, its so much more comfy and less fatiguing and like you say it tracks over obstacles with ease, I wont be going back thats for sure. Always liked Pivot bikes though, Mike Halls influence!
Attaching an Old Man Mountain Divide rack (with two Ortlieb Gravel Panniers) on my Giant Anthem Advanced cross country full suspension mountain bike also resulted in an alarming amount of torsional flexing at the rear triangle. I found that attaching the rear extenders to my Fox dropper seat post (thanks to a seat post clamp from Old Man Mountain) instead of the seat stays eliminated torsional flexing. This set up needs to pivot on the screws of the rear extenders for the rear suspension to continue working.
I'm pretty much always a large now , as my height and proportions are similar to yours. The steeper seat tube angles shorten actual reach quite a bit. Frame makers need to rethink sizing. Great Review!
yeah thx for confirming this, I'm 39 and every bike I owned were size L, but I find my actual modern bikes a little short with size L (187cm) I recently went XL with a 35mm short stem and larger bar, like Neil in the video and do not regret it, will go XL next time for sure.
Neil, you introduced me to the Cutthroat, got one and it fits me perfectly.. Then I saw some of your videos about the Spearfish I couldn't source in my location so I bought an Oiz 120mm but I made the same mistake you did in this video, I went recommended size, but those bikes are more race oriented. Mine feels a little to small with a short stem and longer rised bar. After 1 year I'm considering selling it or changing the frame for an XL with 35/50 mm stem. I think if you hesitate when choosing the bike size and are not racing, it's always best to size up, worst case you put a short stem and move the saddle forward a bit. When the frame is too small they are less alternatives cause you loose in handling and comfort when adjusting the bike fit.
I think nailed the review. I am only 5'7 long torso the medium with 50mm stem fits great. It's definitely a very versatile bike beat mine hard in some hard Pisgah weather last week and it shined.
I ride a 2021 Santa Cruz 5020 27.5,size large,I’m 6’2.double duty chairlift accessed bike park bike 165mm cranks and 32t chainring and my bike packing bike 175mm cranks with a 30t ring.prefer the longer crank arms when bike fully loaded.as the bike feels roomier/smoother/calmer.rack/bag set up is…modified Aeroe spider handle bar rack with 17ltr saltyroll ,modified Old Man Mountain axle pack with Tailfin 5ltr fork packs,10ltr spinelock seat bag and a variety of smaller bags/bottle cages spread around the rest of the main frame etc.like you I tried an Aeroe carrier mounted to my seat stays that flexed the bike that badly that I couldn’t stand up for more than two pedal strokes before the death 💀 wobble took over.😂 I absolutely love the bike in both guises as it’s a great trail bike with seemingly bottomless travel and great handling,and also makes a terrific extremely comfortable bike packing rig,having had the opportunity to try some different bag and rack set ups and then refine these some more.its the exact wrong bike for bike packing some will say,being carbon,27.5,one by 30-10/52 blah blah.yes it has limitations of which I cater too and I do my fair share of pushing and hike a bike which I enjoy as it’s a break from pedalling and an opportunity to stretch out and walk.I couldn’t be happier with it.bye the way your videos have been an excellent avenue into the world of bike packing for the uninitiated especially your comparison tests.half of my gear setup is directly because of your videos and content.keep em coming 👌🏻
Good timing. I'm looking at a few full squish XC and down country bikes for a mix of bikepacking events and long distance XC events. I'm not going to be super competitive with anyone but myself. I've tried dropping suspension on my gravel bike for this kind of thing. And that helps comfort greatly, but I'd like to try something with full squish. Short list at the moment, due primarily to sales or deals on previous year models... Scott Spark 900 (Alloy), Orbea Oiz (Alloy) or YT Izzo (Carbon front/Alloy Rear). Leaning towards the Spark and Izzo due to compatibility for SRAM Transmission upgrades down the line. Oiz still on the list to to value of specs and gorgeous Alloy welds and paint that make the cheap alloy frames look as good as carbon. Going Alloy for rear rack mounting and saving money. I welcome any thoughts on the above bikes or similar alloy XC/Down county full squish.
Got an Oiz, my friend bought one at the same time, we are pleased and both are coming from a Skate -> BMX -> Gravel background . Go 120mm not less on suspension 😇 100mm is ok for a race hardtail, but for bike packing and light trail riding, a modern 120 is awesome. (sold my Alma 100mm a few months after getting my Oiz 120) and FYI, I'm 187 and my L sized Oiz is a little small with a shorter stem. I'm trying to sell it to get an XL actually. Every similar bikes from reputable brands will please you for sure, the full sus first ride is like flying on a magic carpet !
@@Jean-jk4zv Much thanks on the sizing info. I'm 178 with short legs and long torso, I was leaning towards the L on the Oiz. Your post pretty much confirms it. I run a L on the Orbea Rise H (Alloy) now and it's got similar numbers.
Love to have a competent full SUS bike for bikepacking. Opens a lot of doors in terms of terrain choices and not much of a weight penalty on this bike. This is pretty close to a one bike does most everything. Trail, XC and bikepacking- not bad!
I have a Pivot Switchblade and it is a solid longer travel trail bike. The DW Link offers great pedaling support, the frame is stiff and the bike is just plain capable up or down. I would never take it bikepacking as it is just too much bike. The new Mach 4 SL is a bike I would love to own. Fast XC, bike packing and just going fast all apply to this new bike. Just put a Moots sticker on it and you can get over the price!
Good bike, efficient suspension. I had alu mach 5, currently prefer Ibis Ripley with slightly more travel, however the space for framebag is very limited.
I'm not sure I would employ a full suspension bike for bikepacking purposes, but I don't live where you do. If it can't be done on my 29+ rig with a 140 fork I think I'll just walk that section. But more power to you Neil!
Love the channel and the site (!), but I want to comment on the absurdity of a mountain bike that costs from $6200 to $13500. We can all count up the (retail) component costs online, which leaves anywhere from $3000 to $10000 for the frame/fork. That's very pricey. 0% of bikepackers need such a bike. Even less than 10% of racers would benefit from this bike. For example, the 2023 Highland Trail 500 finisher at the bottom of the top 10% (7th place), Rich Rothwell, rode 19 hours and 55 minutes behind the winner, Angus Young. Rothwell rode a $810 frame. Would another $2200 spent on the frame cut the 19 hours difference to a win? No. That's the answer the bike companies don't really want to acknowledge; that their products and their engineering have an upper limit of effectiveness. Only the elite of elite athletes benefit, and only marginally, from these kinds of bikes.
Reviewing a 10.000+ USD XC bike for bikepacking sort of goes against the whole soul of bikepacking inho. What's going with this channel? Luckily the webpage has a lot of useful “ragular folk” content but here things are getting crazy.
Thanks for your opinion. We can’t please everyone with every video, but we do cover everything from DIY budget videos to high end bike videos on this channel. Have a nice day.
@@BIKEPACKINGcom I think you're doing a great job at pleasing everybody with different videos. I love the low budget stuff personally but find all the top end stuff interesting too.
That custom frame bag is awesome!
I asked Rogue Panda to make it pop, they delivered.
I now have a full suss xc bike for bikepacking ( Trek Supercaliber) after hardtails and full rigid, best thing Ive ever done, its so much more comfy and less fatiguing and like you say it tracks over obstacles with ease, I wont be going back thats for sure.
Always liked Pivot bikes though, Mike Halls influence!
I bought a Mach 4 SL last year and it rocks the rockies. Truly a bike for those who like going up and down.
its obviously a rocket going up, but I was pleasantly surprised how capable the Trail version was going down, such a fun bike.
Attaching an Old Man Mountain Divide rack (with two Ortlieb Gravel Panniers) on my Giant Anthem Advanced cross country full suspension mountain bike also resulted in an alarming amount of torsional flexing at the rear triangle.
I found that attaching the rear extenders to my Fox dropper seat post (thanks to a seat post clamp from Old Man Mountain) instead of the seat stays eliminated torsional flexing. This set up needs to pivot on the screws of the rear extenders for the rear suspension to continue working.
"pivot on the screws" - I see what you did there.
I can't imagine that either frame was designed to take seat-stay clamps...
I'm pretty much always a large now , as my height and proportions are similar to yours. The steeper seat tube angles shorten actual reach quite a bit. Frame makers need to rethink sizing.
Great Review!
yeah thx for confirming this, I'm 39 and every bike I owned were size L, but I find my actual modern bikes a little short with size L (187cm) I recently went XL with a 35mm short stem and larger bar, like Neil in the video and do not regret it, will go XL next time for sure.
Neil, you introduced me to the Cutthroat, got one and it fits me perfectly.. Then I saw some of your videos about the Spearfish I couldn't source in my location so I bought an Oiz 120mm but I made the same mistake you did in this video, I went recommended size, but those bikes are more race oriented. Mine feels a little to small with a short stem and longer rised bar. After 1 year I'm considering selling it or changing the frame for an XL with 35/50 mm stem. I think if you hesitate when choosing the bike size and are not racing, it's always best to size up, worst case you put a short stem and move the saddle forward a bit. When the frame is too small they are less alternatives cause you loose in handling and comfort when adjusting the bike fit.
Neil + Mach 4 SL = Bikepacking Rocket
I think nailed the review. I am only 5'7 long torso the medium with 50mm stem fits great. It's definitely a very versatile bike beat mine hard in some hard Pisgah weather last week and it shined.
Great review! Was the flex at the rear from the elkhorn concerning enough that you’d consider using either a different rack or a seat post bag?
I wouldn’t add the Elkhorn again, I would use a seat pack.
@@BIKEPACKINGcom great thx. Would you use the elkhorn on a salsa spearfish? Figure the superboost rear might be more solid?
I ride a 2021 Santa Cruz 5020 27.5,size large,I’m 6’2.double duty chairlift accessed bike park bike 165mm cranks and 32t chainring and my bike packing bike 175mm cranks with a 30t ring.prefer the longer crank arms when bike fully loaded.as the bike feels roomier/smoother/calmer.rack/bag set up is…modified Aeroe spider handle bar rack with 17ltr saltyroll ,modified Old Man Mountain axle pack with Tailfin 5ltr fork packs,10ltr spinelock seat bag and a variety of smaller bags/bottle cages spread around the rest of the main frame etc.like you I tried an Aeroe carrier mounted to my seat stays that flexed the bike that badly that I couldn’t stand up for more than two pedal strokes before the death 💀 wobble took over.😂 I absolutely love the bike in both guises as it’s a great trail bike with seemingly bottomless travel and great handling,and also makes a terrific extremely comfortable bike packing rig,having had the opportunity to try some different bag and rack set ups and then refine these some more.its the exact wrong bike for bike packing some will say,being carbon,27.5,one by 30-10/52 blah blah.yes it has limitations of which I cater too and I do my fair share of pushing and hike a bike which I enjoy as it’s a break from pedalling and an opportunity to stretch out and walk.I couldn’t be happier with it.bye the way your videos have been an excellent avenue into the world of bike packing for the uninitiated especially your comparison tests.half of my gear setup is directly because of your videos and content.keep em coming 👌🏻
Good timing. I'm looking at a few full squish XC and down country bikes for a mix of bikepacking events and long distance XC events. I'm not going to be super competitive with anyone but myself. I've tried dropping suspension on my gravel bike for this kind of thing. And that helps comfort greatly, but I'd like to try something with full squish.
Short list at the moment, due primarily to sales or deals on previous year models... Scott Spark 900 (Alloy), Orbea Oiz (Alloy) or YT Izzo (Carbon front/Alloy Rear). Leaning towards the Spark and Izzo due to compatibility for SRAM Transmission upgrades down the line. Oiz still on the list to to value of specs and gorgeous Alloy welds and paint that make the cheap alloy frames look as good as carbon.
Going Alloy for rear rack mounting and saving money.
I welcome any thoughts on the above bikes or similar alloy XC/Down county full squish.
Got an Oiz, my friend bought one at the same time, we are pleased and both are coming from a Skate -> BMX -> Gravel background . Go 120mm not less on suspension 😇 100mm is ok for a race hardtail, but for bike packing and light trail riding, a modern 120 is awesome. (sold my Alma 100mm a few months after getting my Oiz 120) and FYI, I'm 187 and my L sized Oiz is a little small with a shorter stem. I'm trying to sell it to get an XL actually. Every similar bikes from reputable brands will please you for sure, the full sus first ride is like flying on a magic carpet !
@@Jean-jk4zv Much thanks on the sizing info. I'm 178 with short legs and long torso, I was leaning towards the L on the Oiz. Your post pretty much confirms it. I run a L on the Orbea Rise H (Alloy) now and it's got similar numbers.
Love to have a competent full SUS bike for bikepacking. Opens a lot of doors in terms of terrain choices and not much of a weight penalty on this bike. This is pretty close to a one bike does most everything. Trail, XC and bikepacking- not bad!
I have a Pivot Switchblade and it is a solid longer travel trail bike. The DW Link offers great pedaling support, the frame is stiff and the bike is just plain capable up or down. I would never take it bikepacking as it is just too much bike. The new Mach 4 SL is a bike I would love to own. Fast XC, bike packing and just going fast all apply to this new bike. Just put a Moots sticker on it and you can get over the price!
Good bike, efficient suspension. I had alu mach 5, currently prefer Ibis Ripley with slightly more travel, however the space for framebag is very limited.
Ripley is a great short travel bike.
What bikes in this category have stiffer rear ends?
I'm not sure I would employ a full suspension bike for bikepacking purposes, but I don't live where you do. If it can't be done on my 29+ rig with a 140 fork I think I'll just walk that section. But more power to you Neil!
You can't run a rigid fork on a fully. It gives you a lot of cargo space. If you are a hotel to hotel bikepacker, it might work.
@@fpeter01 I never said it's a rigid fork nor a full sus. Hardtail with 140mm travel fork, it works fine thanks.
What frame curious?
Mach4SL is a sweet rig…
Dang does a rear rack really go on this frame?
It did.
I was looking at the aero rack myself... Because I saw some other video that also stated they felt awkward flex at the swingarm
Is Pivot ,still using press fit ?
Yep.
@@BIKEPACKINGcom Thanks
Wow 5300! To 13k that’s some lawyer for dentist’s money! 2.4” tire clearance seems a bit tight
Love the channel and the site (!), but I want to comment on the absurdity of a mountain bike that costs from $6200 to $13500. We can all count up the (retail) component costs online, which leaves anywhere from $3000 to $10000 for the frame/fork. That's very pricey. 0% of bikepackers need such a bike. Even less than 10% of racers would benefit from this bike. For example, the 2023 Highland Trail 500 finisher at the bottom of the top 10% (7th place), Rich Rothwell, rode 19 hours and 55 minutes behind the winner, Angus Young. Rothwell rode a $810 frame. Would another $2200 spent on the frame cut the 19 hours difference to a win? No. That's the answer the bike companies don't really want to acknowledge; that their products and their engineering have an upper limit of effectiveness. Only the elite of elite athletes benefit, and only marginally, from these kinds of bikes.
Live in New Zealand and the price doubles 😳
My RUclips algorithm is going to be so confused! Cross country race, bike and bike packing!?? Time to clear my cachet
betcha a rocky mountain Element is a killer bikepacking rig
bikepacking.com/bikes/2022-rocky-mountain-element-review/
Geometry and price won't work for me. Another great review though. Thanks
Reviewing a 10.000+ USD XC bike for bikepacking sort of goes against the whole soul of bikepacking inho. What's going with this channel? Luckily the webpage has a lot of useful “ragular folk” content but here things are getting crazy.
Thanks for your opinion. We can’t please everyone with every video, but we do cover everything from DIY budget videos to high end bike videos on this channel. Have a nice day.
@@BIKEPACKINGcom Have a great day yourself. :-)
@@BIKEPACKINGcom I think you're doing a great job at pleasing everybody with different videos. I love the low budget stuff personally but find all the top end stuff interesting too.
Um…run what ya brung about covers it.horses for courses.everyone has a different take on what bike packing is to them,that’s the beauty of it.✌🏻
I don't get it; You complain that the medium has too much reach, so you go to the large witch has even more reach??
I'm complaining that the reach is too short on the medium for me.
Nope, it's quite the opposite.
I love my Switchblade, but it is too much bike for bikepacking. Love to get on the racy model!