I have 3 bikes, steel, aluminum, and carbon. They all work fine. They go places with application of force to the pedals. People think too much. I’d certainly rather have an up-spec Al bike than a lower-spec carbon. The move towards wider tires on road bikes negates a lot of complaints about aluminum.
My recent aluminium bike is very comfortable. Lots of seat post exposure, it visibly bends as does the seat TUBE! They can do much more with aluminium nowadays and considering the cost it's a wonderful frame material.
I have had numerous steel, titanium, carbon and aluminum bikes. If built by a good builder with a good design they all can work well. They all have strengths and weaknesses. My current main bike is an aluminum hard tail. It works great for me and strikes a good balance between handling, ride quality, weight and value. IMHO the tire size, tire type and pressure probably make more impact on the ride quality than the frame material on a mountain bike. I am currently using 2.35” tubeless tires and with this in mind I am not sure that if I had to do a blind test I could tell the difference between the same frame built with different materials. Again, all the materials can work great if built by someone that knows what they are doing. I do think though that if you are racing Carbon is probably the way to go due to the weight savings. This though may impact the life of the frame. Finally, I participated in the survey. I did not answer yes to buying an aluminum bike in the next year, because I am not planning on buying another bike in the next year. If I was though I would strongly consider aluminum. Thanks for all the great content!
When my carbon Salsa Pony Rustler frame broke this summer, I specifically chose aluminum, and replaced it with the Ibis Ripley AF for longevity, production sustainability, stiffness, aaand perhaps Dw Link was a strong driving force too. I couldn't be happier with the choice, and do not miss looking after carbon.
I’ve got a carbon fs mtb, carbon road bike, ti gravel bike, and a super cheap alum hardtail frame built up rigid with alt bars and spare parts as sort of a gravel cruiser. The bike I ride most is that dang alum hardtail; It’s just so comfy on long gravel rides. IMO, frame material doesn’t matter that much as long as you aren’t running skinny road tires.
As a 260lb big guy i just made the switch to steel after snapping a 2017 timberjack at the chainstay(favorite bike in the world/the one that got away). I think I'd own another aluminum bike due to the price and plenty of great options, it's just gotta have at least a 3 year warranty. The main reason why i switched to steel was the fact that i couldn't fix that timberjack after it cracked due to it being heat treated aluminum, and i hate when something that just needs a lil welding done goes to waste. Riding a steel bike means i can fix it in my garage and even modify it if i have to if it lasts past the warranty. I'm all about longevity and keeping things alive.
I have been mountain biking since 1987 so have seen the state of the art being double butted chromoly to exotic at the time aluminum, to carbon. Initially the aluminum bikes were all about how light and stiff they could be and combined with the XC like riding position they had, they were brutally stiff and uncomfortable (especially when running the must have Flite saddle). But since the advent of full sus, wider and higher volume tires, and most recently frame design and tuning of aluminum, it matters so much less what it’s made out of. The newer aluminum frames are such a great value and don’t compromise on ride like they used to. I still think steel is super cool and same with Ti no doubt. But I think the differences in ride are way more null now.
You make an excellent point that while frames have different amounts of compliance, the tires and suspension really do most of the heavy lifting. Suspension can have 2-6" of travel, while frames can only deflect on the order of a few mm's. Tires can deflect up to an inch or two. Most of us would gain the most comfort buying the most supple tires the terrain won't destroy, and run them as soft as rim strike avoidance allows.
i'm less concerned about the ride differences; i'm thinking more about the durability differences. Aluminum cracks and when aluminum frames get a dent, that's a ticking time bomb. A dent in a steel frame is just ugly, in most cases...
As a more senior person (63), I find it interesting how trends change and come back around again. As a kid, I had the same old steel frame many Canadians had ( CCM Targa) . In my mid-20s, I had the next step up, Chomoly or thin walled steel alloy. Fast forward to 2004, my first mountain bike, the new wonder material...Aluminum. 2018 added a second bike ( road) Aluminium frame and carbon forks. I truly believe there are evolutions in material, and there is nothing wrong with any of them other than the trend of the moment. The only one that honestly concerns me is carbon fibre. It is a wonderful material in some applications, but it scares me that in a stress applications like bikes, the average person ( or bike shop) cannot see or detect internal cracks or delamination. Final thought for aluminum being the entry level, remember back 20 years, aluminum was hi tech compared to entry level chromoly steel.
I agree on your statement about unseen cracks. I had the chance to buy carbon bike but I could not get the idea of it breaking due to falling or some cause that an aluminum/steel/titanium could survive.
The carbon problem you mention isn't unique to the material. Metals fatigue (even steel if heavily loaded), corrosion happens, and there can always be unseen weld defects or crash damage. Really, the biggest difference between the strength of different bikes is their intended intended use, quality of design and quality of manufacture. Santa Cruz actually recommends heavy riders to use their carbon bikes over aluminum.
A relative of mine (66 years old) has owned a Nishiki steel randonneur for decades. 11 years ago the frame above the front derailleur completely tore through. At that time I was in a backyard workshop with my VW bus, the mechanic briefly welded the frame together and we painted it over with Hammerite. The bike is still in use. Last year he cycled across the Alps from Germany to Croatia. True story 😂
15 years ago I paid $75 for a 10ish year old Kona Jake the Snake (7005 aluminum I believe) as a winter beater. I love that bike and still ride it all the time. Stripped of its racks and fenders it weighs in at about 20lbs. It hasn't fatigued any more than me that I can discern.
Totally agree, aluminum bikes came a long way and are at least as good as a frame material than others including much more expensive ones like carbon or titanium. It's really a matter of standing and hype. Geometry matters most and I'd really favor any high end aluminum bike over lower end ones in other materials especially if its cheap, comfortable and reliable. just use saved dinero for better wheels for example
My first race bike was a steel Daccordi with Reynolds 653 which stoked my passion to race back in 1986. Then a custom Ken Evans road bike again with Reynolds 653. Then went to aluminium with a Principia 700 in 1994. In 2006 when Cervelo brought out their game changing carbon Soloist (Team CSC replica), I had to have one as soon as they arrived in Australia and instantly hooked on carbon. Carbon then become my preferred material for decades with several mtn bike and road bike upgrades. Until recently when I decided on an aluminium Focus Atlas 6.7 for my gravel bike as i wanted something robust, durable, versatile, aesthetically pleasing and well priced. At 62, having long traded in speed for fun with bikepacking adventures, it's rekindled my love for aluminium.
I bought an 8 yr old aluminium XC bike this year and went on my first bikepacking trip with it. It was great, responsive and reliable. I look after my bikes and don't over analyse their various attributes, apart from weight.
I'm really into aluminum frames for city rides and mountain bikes. They're super light, strong, and cheap. I'm thinking of getting one for touring, too.
As someone who has been riding and collecting (retaining not making a museum) bikes for a long time, I've managed to have some in Steel, Al, CF and Ti. When I ride them, I perceive a definite difference in the feel. But I'm less certain about how much of it is the core material vs the specific alloy, tube design, frame design etc. The only one I'm certain about is my Al commuter bike that actually has an Al fork which DOES ride harshly. But that's fine for its purpose. The steel ones are all road bikes and so aren't damped by wide tires. I DO feel the low 'buzz' factor through them. But their stiffness (in the right ways) and weight are all over the map. I've got road, mountain, gravel and a tandem in aluminum. The road bike is notably less compliant than the steel or Ti ones. But it still rides fine. But it is worth noting that when I wanted to experiment with a Redshift post, it went on that bike 🙂But tall of them are all just 'fine'. I don't say that as a dis. But as tools that were well built and work as designed. One of them started life as a rigid MTB and now lives as a drop bar gravel setup 35 years later. So it seems to last. The Ti bike is a vintage road frame I built up. The first time I rode it, I was amazed by the feel. Despite being an old design and running skinny tires, it just felt like it was gliding over the roughness while still feeling (and being) superlight and sporty. Placebo effect? Quite possibly. But it still feels that way. BTW, if you want to play with Ti on a budget, an older frame or even full bike can be a good entry. Still more expensive than the other materials but since it is so durable, a pretty safe bet. The CF ones are recent additions having 'fallen for the marketing'. Despite the snark, they really are excellent. Fantastic balance of strength, weight and comfort. I too share the fear of damage, but in reality, if you use your brain about what you do with it and use a torque wrench, I'm more worried about contact damage to a thin walled aluminum frame. So, what does this mean? In my opinion, it means it doesn't really matter. Each material has its tradeoffs. Look for the characteristics (form, ride, build, price, etc.) that you want and find that before you worry about the frame material. If the same bike is available in multiple materials, then consider these properties to decide.
I started out on steel in the 80’s and 90’s (BMX-> 10 sp-> MTB). Then I bought an aluminum road bike. Then I bought 3 titanium bikes ( road, cross and MTB). Then I bought a carbon road bike for winter training. Today, I bought an aluminum gravel bike. I still prefer quality titanium, but the price point for the aluminum gravel bike was hard to pass up. Plus the larger tires will offset the frame harshness if it’s there at all. It will replace the carbon road bike and ti cross bike. Double duty as a winter training bike / gravel bike. I don’t ride steel anymore because of the weight penalty, but more important is that a good triple butted steel frame is expensive to build up. The Trek checkpoint AL5 cost the same as the Ritchey Outback frameset. I would have “preferred” the Ritchey build, but the Checkpoint was more “reasonable” in the mad world of cycling absurdity.
Thank you. Recently bought a Trek Checkpoint AL5 for future bikepacking and love it. I also have a carbon Specialized Roubaix in Carbon, but currently riding the Checkpoint more.
Love my RAAW Jibb! Sadly most manufacturers alloy offerings feel like more of an afterthought. As rocks shoot up and hit the frame, I have far more confidence in my steel/alloy bikes than I do my carbon one.
Given the advent of tubeless tyres with supple side walls running lower pressures, modern suspension & latest aluminium frame manufacturing techniques, I'd be very surprised if anyone but the top racers would really benefit from a carbon frame over an aluminium one.
Another amazing video! I think aluminum doesn’t really get the best reviews because it has been around for years as only being used on entry level bikes. When Klein and Cannondale were at their peak and competing with steel as the better frame material. Carbon fiber came along and made everyone consider aluminum as the low end bike material, even lower than steel. Obviously aluminum has evolved over the years and with the increased use of 3D printing and advanced CNC technologies. The fact is, high end aluminum components are better than ever.
at 6'5 and averaging 230lbs I tend to run Aluminum for my mtn bikes to reduce flex I used to get from Steel and Titanium. Same with choice of Cannondale Aluminim road bike in 1990. Granted stiff ride, but did reduce chatter with the AL fork. I commute on a steel 1989 Nishiki mtn bike switched to more cyclocross orientation keeping 26x2.2 gravel tires. I did get a Salsa Warbird recently, appreciate the Carbon for the mixed riding. Just would not do jumps and drops on carbon for my size. Still riding my dual suspension Klien Palamino running AL and 26x2.4 wheels and continues to be a great workhorse.
I presently own an aluminum mountain bike, and a carbon frame time trial bike. Way back in the day, I had a steel frame Schwinn Hurricane, however with one light forward hit into a stopped vehicle, it caused my frame to bend wildly, and I was told to forego using it anymore, since it may risk the tube splitting over time. By 1997, I was exclusively cycling everywhere, and had such a thrill riding. You could visibly see the bend near the steering column. From there on, I have predominantly ridden aluminum hardtail frames, and yes, I do feel a little jarring while down-hilling, but the bikes suit my ride well. For me, the carbon bike is more a novelty nowadays, but the aluminum is the one I use religiously.
I have broken both Steel and aluminum frames at the seatpost top tube weld. Both from Trek. I purchased a Litespeed Titanium Watia gravel bike and I have been really happy with the material and build quality. I do own an Aluminum Trek 1120 that was a warranty replacement for the broken Trek Fuel EX7. Any future bikes will probably be titanium as a 260lb big rider, the strength and quality of the litespeed is hands above the Trek.
I have an alkuminium bike that is 30 years old now. I upgraded it over time, so I rode a couple of long bikepacking trips (like Veneto Gravel) with it, and it always was fine. Then I reached the maximum tire size I could mount into that frame, not having enough mount points and being led to believe that mini-v-brakes were not good enough, and listening to "steel is real" I built a steel bike with disk brakes, room for 50mm tires, enough bosses for fork cages... And besides those many small details, I do not really see that much of a difference. Both are nice bikes that I love, each for its own qualities.
While I switched from aluminum to carbon for my Gravel-bike, my full suspension MTB is alloy. I don´t ride too carefully and especially on a double squish, a carbon frame would already be completely broken from the falls I had just this year 😆 While the harshness definitely was there to be felt on the constant chatter over the long miles of rougher gravel while riding a rigid frame with drop bars, I feel that the type of vibrations one usually gets from XC riding are eaten up by suspension and therefore almost unnoticeable on an alloy bike of that type. Alloy makes most sense to me for a MTB. However, I would not shy away of going back to an alloy frame for a gravel/commuter bike as well, as long as it allows for some fat tires.
My primary bikepacking bike is an aluminum Salsa Timberjack. "Compliance" in a frame is every bit about the design as it is about the material. A Surly for example is straight gauge 4130, which is very strong but is one of the least flexy blends of steel. The lack of butting in the tubes also does not provide a very compliant ride. A Surly is a fine bikepacking rig and will handle a load very well, but lets not pretend any surly has every been "compliant". Thats all well and good because compliance comes from many things. Tires have gotten wider accross the board. Road bikes with 32c tires, no mountain bike has had less than a 2" tire(Even in XC) in many many years. Tires will always net you more compliance than any frame material. If you listen to CyclingAbout, frame compliance of steel vs aluminum is actually entirely imperceptible... I'll let you make up your mind on that one. The other thing of note is suspension. On a mountain bike you will almost have some amount of suspension and on a full suspension there is absolutely no way you are feeling a difference between two materials if the frame designer has done their job. Firstly the break away force of a fork or shock is significantly less than the flex point of steel(or carbon for that matter). To compound that, your 2.5" tires are flexing and complying to the ground they roll on long before that suspension even comes into play. The only argument for carbon vs aluminum on a full suspension is weight, and frankly that 1lb could be made up in so many other more noticeable and less expensive places on the bike. As someone who thinks steel full suspensions are super cool, I'll be the first to tell you they will not actually ride any better than an aluminum one. Aluminum is a great material, especially for bikepacking and mountain biking, any offroad cycling really.
We need to separate full suss from rigid and hardtail bikes here. Otherwise we’re comparing apples to oranges. Also when adding luggage to a bike and travelling on buses and planes, your frame can get all kinds of stresses and damage and steel gives a certain amount of peace of mind here. It’s not just about the ride feel, looks and cost.
For those that answered Yes to the question “Do you own an aluminum bike?” A nice follow up question would’ve been is it your daily or how often do you use it?? Could be a lot of 1st bikes just sitting around the garage and that may make Aluminum seem more relevant.
I thought the same thing. IMO a better question would be “do you currently ride an aluminum bike” I ride steel but i do have an aluminum bike hanging in my garage that I’ll likely never ride again
I would say Steve from Hardtail Party would be one of the foremost expert on frame material and his answer would be… Depends. As a Canadian I saw a steel SuperCycle (Canadian Tire) circa mid 80’s. I was overcome utter with joy and nostalgia!
I have an Alum Fuji Jari and it's surprisingly very smooth. It's always a pleasant surprise when I don't ride it much and then go back to it. I also have and AL fat bike and a Steel Touring commuter (which I love for both looks and ride). I also have several carbon road bikes. I used to have an AL road bike, but it was older and definitely felt like it amplified any bumps in the road. In PA that makes for a painful ride (roads here kinda suck lol)
It is often said that aluminum is ridged. But is it true? Has anyone measured the flex in a frame? And what parts contribute to that flex? Classically, the frame is two triangles with straight sides. Intuitively it would seem that the triangles do not flex regardless of the material; that the flex or the dampening would come only from the fork, the seat post, the handlebars, and the tires -- the largest part of the dampening coming from the tires. Kindly correct me if I'm wrong. Actual numbers would be nice. New topic: I love these programs and insights, and watch them religiously. You do a great job.
I have three bikes, all of them have aluminium frames. One is a 20 inches foldable bike that I bought second hand for a third of the selling price of a new one. It is not that light, although it is a small bike. I guess the material is cheap aluminium and the used thicker tubes. But it is handy to take on public transport when I need to. I also bought second hand a rather expensive German travel bike with a Pinion P.18 and Gates carbon belt transmission, a dynamo front hub, hydraulic disc brakes, etc. It is still in very good condition. The frame is made of high quality aluminium. And my other bike (also from Germany) which I bought new, although it was pricy, has a classic design, with a polished aluminium frame, Gates carbon belt and Shimano Alfine 8 hub. It weighted slightly over 10 kg before I added front and rear racks and fenders. The tires are rather narrow and inflated at 6 bars, and the saddle is a Brooks B17, so the ride is not comfortable on uneven surfaces (bumpy tarmac or pavement in Paris streets). I love titanium, but the prices are way too expensive compared to high quality aluminium. I’m looking for a fourth bike, a fully suspended one (my present ones have no suspension at all), considering getting a used Whyte PRST 4, which is made of aluminium too !
I had a Kona Libre AL and now have Kona Libre CR - I don't know if there is a really noticable differnce between two of them. CR is maybe a bit lighter, and looks a bit better (IMO), but with of them having carbon forks hard to notice a difference on long gravel rides.
I bought an aluminum-framed bike (Felt Broam) as an inexpensive intro to gravel biking. But over the years I've upgraded to a 1X GRX groupset and wider tires and the bike just gets better as I go. Now I'm enjoying it so much I can't talk myself into to a more expensive bike. If it goes on gnarly adventures in the north Cascades and happily commutes to work, I just don't see why I would "upgrade".
On that last question of the survey I answered no mainly cause I don’t have plans to buy a new bike within the next year. Any that I do get will probably be a project bike. However, my main bike currently is an aluminum frame with a carbon fork, and personally I think that’s the best combo. The cost of aluminum with the weight savings and vibration dampening of carbon, especially on the front end
I do own aluminum bike. Other factors were more important than frame material when choosing an e-cargobike. My other bike is steel and if I was to buy another bike it most likely would be steel. Titanium is interesting but a lot more expensive. The bikes I have thought of lately are Omnium Mini, Brompton, and Velo-orange Neutrino. All steel and beautiful quirky bikes!
As someone who build bikes as hobby and own 6 (1 steel, 3 aluminum, 2 carbon) my go to is still aluminum. It's a good balance between weight and durability. Steel gravel bike just feels too slow & sluggish on road. While carbon feels too fragile for extended bikepacking trip.
I have a few carbon bikes, one aluminum bike, and one steel bike. Each does its own thing and has its own vibe. For me, it's less about performance subtleties and more about the vibe that the bike brings to the ride. It is like picking an outfit when going out with friends: Is it formal, is it casual, do you want to make a bit of a statement? In the end, you always have to look good.
I have steel and carbon as my bikes for pleasure. However I also have an aluminium as a work commuter. As I'm soon retiring, My winter project will be to rebuild that frame as a Al gravel bike with the widest tires I can squeeze into that frame. Maybe even add seat post and stem suspension.
I still have a Scandium Niner Air9 w/ their RDO Carbon Fork (~21#) and it's an amazingly compliant, fast and non-fatiguing all-day ride as long as the trail doesn't get too fast and chunky. I recently built a Turner Nitrous, but that's a different animal entirely w/ modern geo, suspension fork, dropper post and Zipp carbon wheels.
I absolutely loved my Trek Farley 5 aluminum fat bike! The bottom bracket housing manufacturing was messed up and after a year they replaced it under warranty and I opted for the carbon fiber model instead
I ride 2 aluminium ATB/MBT cycles by Cube, and a fibered one by Cube. With none of them I do stunts. I just like to ride them and hang out with them, and make them better and better. It's just the thing... I prefer aluminium over all the materials I used so far. So from steel, aluminium and fiber, I like my aluminium rides best. It still has some weight to it, and it has the flexibility and not too sturdy to feel every bump, while I favor it above steel, since of it's lighter weight. It's still to me the best of all worlds we have. + We can't fully recycle fibers, which we can do with aluminium. And the surplus to recycling aluminium is that it get's more pure every run it gets, through the production and recycling, cycle. So still the best to me. I would want a titanium frame, but they're all so slender, and the aluminium has this body to it still and not too much. As well as the prices. I like the aluminium price ranges. The fiber one I have is for rougher rides I take, but even there, I try to limit the bumps, since I don't want to break it. Titanium is not in my price range. So I guess I'm stuck in the gateway up there? Well the money I have, but the value for money is the same with the fiber, I tried, right? I stick to aluminium because of the fact that I like the material best vs the value I get back for it, which is more than fine with me. So why rip up my marriage to aluminium? HAHAHA ;) Would I want a stainless steel one,...I don't know, do they exist, so a Delorean styled cycle with sandwich layering materials, so fibers stuck to stainless steel? I would want to see one if they exist?! Every time I add a cycle, I pass the materials, do my own secure reviews, test them, and choose an aluminium, why is the value for the money, upgrade ability, recycle ability, and so onward. So Aluminum it is for me. ❤🤍💙 From EU-NL
My husband has an aluminum and a steel bike, close to the same weight and build. We can't tell the difference. The wheel set and tires effect the feel of the bike more than the frame material.
Bought an aluminum frame because I wanted to use it for bikerafting and I won't worry about it when it goes in the drink (unlike all the components). Carbon really can't easily be recycled. The end.
I have several aluminum bikes from a canyon grizzl six to a specialized chisel. I don’t race professionally I’m a recreational rider, so I’m more concerned about the components. I would rather spend my money on those than worry about the difference between aluminum steel and carbon. My opinion only.
I've had a couple steel and aluminum bikes(one with a carbon fork) but the general lack of experience with a breadth of bikes I can't say I've noticed enough of a difference in the materials while riding. I think I've noticed things more in terms of the volume of tires and suspension easing a harsh ride more than the materials per se.
Switched from alu road bike to a carbon one and could immediately feel much more compliance and comfort over the same roads, although it was delivered on a skinnier tires
If I had the money for a new bike I would shop titanium first then steel or aluminum but not carbon fiber under any circumstances. Sustainability and durability being among my concerns. With a generous budget I would love to try titanium but that’s unlikely absent some kind of windfall. My current bike is a steel frame and fork and the ride quality is great. Previously I have owned bikes which were steel and uncomfortable and also aluminum which was uncomfortable. I would consider a carbon fiber fork on any metal frame to lower weight and make for an overall better experience.
My fat bike is aluminium, and certainly don’t worry about a harsh ride. I have a carbon gravel bike, and a steel randonneurring bike, and am in the process of having a custom steel rando frame built. It’s all horse for courses, but if I could only have one bike, it’d be steel.
I had an old 2005-ish KHS Alite 2000. It had flat stays and had an insanely smooth ride. I still ride a 2007-ish giant defy, and it has a more dampened ride-like a carbon bike, especially compared to my ‘99 KHS Flite 500 Reynolds 520. Buddy had a 2010 Giant TCR, and it was the most insufferable ride I’ve ever been on. Insanely stiff, and would just squirt forward under effort, but it was a teeth rattler.
The only reason I like steel and Ti over aluminum is aesthetics. That's it. As far frame compliance between different material, I beg anyone to tell the difference on bikes with larger volume tires (that are inflated correctly). My first high end bike back in the 90s was a Klein. Back then Aluminum was the high-end frame material until it became more common.
I think after having an aluminum hard-tail if i bought another i'd go steel..or Ti. That said, once you add a quality rear suspension (assuming a nice fork up front) I'd stay aluminum because it's cheaper and once you have full squish and decent width tires the difference in vibration would be minimal. I do use carbon bars, what an improvement over the alloy bars that came on the Trek. That was worth it.
I just got a Specialized Chisel hardtail this year and its by far the smoothest hardtail I've ever ridden. Aluminum can ride better than titanium if its designed right.
Great video! IMO, aluminum is fine for full suspension MTBs but harsh on let's say road bikes. On gravel bikes because of the bigger tires they seem to feel OK. I prefer steel over aluminum and carbon. My Surly Krampus is a bit heavy with its steel frame but rides very comfortably for me. I plan on shedding some weight off the bike soon.
krampus is way better than any aluminum bike which is the cheapest material of the three and the harshest and weakest. makes me wonder who paid him to push a bike material he doesnt ride so bike comps make more money offering less.
I have an alloy Chisel HT with highly specked components after riding on various carbon bikes, it’s a hoot to ride, and I am more convinced it’s all overblown marketing hype. Alloy likely also has a poor reputation due to the large variability in frame quality, and they often come with heavy low quality components, which will result in a heavy bike, which will be the noticeable difference to most riders. Now I am curious about titanium, must be magic metal :)
Still 50% heavier than carbon, no? My ti frame is yet another 50% heavier, but as a raw polished finish, is not something that can be achieved with alloy and I sit and stare at it like the work of art that it is… and the unfortunate reality is that bikes are hugely aesthetically driven. I can tell you objectively though that the ti frame is twice as hard to dent or bend as the alloy. My alloy frames have dents and bends.. my ti frame has paint chips and scuffs. Also, I could potentially bend the stays of a steel frame to accommodate a larger chainring while this would destroy an alloy frame completely. This goes for the process of retruing a frame as well.
@ heavier by about 500g-1000g is my estimate compared to an equivalent carbon frame, likely on the lower end if it was a smaller frame. My bike weighs sub 10kg with a rigid fork, sub 11kg with a 100mm fork in a large. Yes plan to try ti one day.
@@hdoan7167 well, a 5% bike weight reduction is equivalent to 1-2% more efficiency. You could say you’re increasing your useful lifetime by getting places faster and less tired.
I currently have two aluminum frames, one is a hybrid that I use for almost any type of ride. The other is a cruiser style for just puttering around. I am considering another bike, but am more concerned with components and price over frame materials.
The cynical bike consumer that I am is now bracing for AL bike prices to go up. It’ll be interesting to see if other outlets also do “hey, let’s give AL another look” episodes and stories.
The reason why I have an aluminum bike over steel is that I use my things. I don't let things use me. Sometimes, I would store the bike uncleaned for weeks and months. In my experience, steel bikes always rust 100%, when commuting in rain, the bike parking area sometimes doesn't have a roof and gets wet, when I get back I'm not going to obsess over it and wipe it dry, that's where the rust kicks in. Carbon bikes, I've seen massive accidents in my commute, so that's a no. And I ended up with aluminum.
been riding a banshee paradox for a couple years. 7005, amazing welds with machined compliance in the yoke and dropouts. i just wish it was straight tubed instead of hydroformed. there's potential if companies put the effort into aluminum frame design.
Also worth noting is that not all aluminium bikes are made equal. I test rode the latest Spesh Allez Sprint and holy smokes does it ride fast and comfortable. It muted road buzz so well like a carbon bike would.
I’ve got a specialized diverge E5 alumimum bike. Future shock and an eesilk post … it’s supremely comfortable for multiday rides. Super durable too. Hard to justify a carbon bike for me. Or steel for that matter.
My HT is aluminum. It was perfectly fine until I sat on my new XC FS Carbon bike😂 Man, this thing is comfy! Now I am seriously thinking of giving a shot at a steel bike for the comfort. Also steel bikes are soooooo beautiful! Thanks for the video.
I remember the days steel was budget material and alu broke sometimes at welds and then carbon showed up and the myth of them beeing not repairable! Check out pvd latest post of carbon repair! Now all i want is a carbon frame made to last with the weight of a steel frame and 100% recyclable . That way you can buy once and repair forever ,no welding needed!
I’m all in on aluminum between 4 bikes. I’ve hammered my giant hard tail mtb for years over softball sized rock fields and have never had a crack or an issue (other than my ankles) For me, aluminum is very durable and budget friendly. I’d rather go with another aluminum bike with good components and then also be able to afford a different style bike than save all my pennies for only one bike in a single category. Aluminum let’s me own a lot of different bikes. Ti would be pretty cool though…
The more suspension and tire volume you have, the less frame material matters, assuming sound frame design. I have an aluminum hardtail and I never think about the frame as I ride, especially since it is built to a burly standard. But the possibility of stress fractures over time is there I suppose. I love that my carbon gravel bike is tuned to provide wonderful comfort and efficiency over many miles, and the only concern I have about structural integrity is what could happen when I’m not riding it, i.e. unnatural impacts in directions it is not designed to withstand. My steel touring bike is my town bike and I notice its heft whenever I move it but never while I’m riding it. I love not worrying about a steel frame at all, ever. So why do I hope to go to a steel hardtail? Because of trust in the material and because the thin tubing next to fat tires is beautiful in my eyes. As for titanium, I respect it but its cost leads me to consider it a vanity purchase. Of all the bike types I use, gravel seems the most logical application for it. So to sum up, yeah, aluminum gets no respect. Doesn’t seem fair, does it?
I think we also should consider that bikepacking is a niche segment and steel is probably preferable, in part, because its the easiest and probably cheapest material for a small scale builder to work with. And so, most of the more innovative bikes are going to be steel. That will also drive up the appeal of the material.
Modern frame design, tubing selection, geo and the introduction of big rubber have made aluminum a much more forgiving material than it had been in the past. Look at my niner rlt 9 aluminum, or the specialized fuze,salsa timberjack/ journeyer or any number of other modern aluminum framed bikes...rigid or jarring is not the first thing that comes to mind when I ride these bikes, instead I'm impressed with their ride quality, weight savings and progressive geo.
Here's a question: What role will aluminum frames play in the resurrection of the bike industry from it's current slump? Will the bet be on $12k bikes for tech bro's and dentists? Or will the bet be on affordable aluminum bikes for average people? Which will be the biggest money maker? And another thought: Ever notice the wing fluctuation when flying somewhere? And why aren't there a lot of steel, carbon and titanium airplanes? (yes, I know the SR71 is TI and the 787 is carbon.) Last thought: I own a aluminum Scattante xrl touring/cross bike (don't judge). With 25mm tires it has a stiff ride. With 40mm tires, it's perfect. Go figure. OK, one more thought: which material is the most environmentally friendly? (holding aside epoxy/bamboo frames.) Key point: To melt steel, it takes significantly more energy per gram than to melt aluminum, with the average steel requiring roughly twice the energy per gram compared to aluminum due to steel's much higher melting point; a typical carbon steel needs around 270 J/g to melt, while aluminum needs around 130 J/g.
@@coralnerd and yet is a far cheaper metal and far weaker. its just bike companies trying to justify selling you entry level and then they try to market it as exotic when its the lowest tier material to build a bike
It I strikes me that compliance in the frame is always regarded as so important. However the main compliance is from the tires, not inflating them too hard, like on a gravel bike for example. Using 40-45mm tires make a huge difference to the ride when compared to 33-37mm tires. On a full suspension MTB the suspension is obviously adding a tons of compliance. So if your tires and suspension give you so much compliance, how important can the frame be ? I see carbon as somewhat advantageous on road bike, much less on gravel, and not at all on MTB. Quality components are much more important than frame material.
I like my two aluminum frame bikes, but the frame is not the only component. One of those bikes has a rigid steel fork, the other a aluminium fork which I consider replacing with a suspension fork. The handlebar on the first bike is titanium, on the other super-light custom carbon, which is much more compliant. I think that carbon really shines in handlebars and seatposts due to ist compliancy, whereas I don't want too much compliance in my frame. I want to bomb down mountains with 60km/h without wondering about twisty frames. tl;dr: combination of materials with each at their strong points.
I have a carbon full sus and a steel hardtail, wouldn't hesitate to get the right AL bike. actually wanted the aluminum evo alloy stumpjumper over my carbon one but I found a way better deal on the carbon version
I own alloy gravel bike and I really like this material, but next bike will be steel. Cause feeling of riding, stiffness, tubing and durability as you say.
Material is an interesting topic. I had a V2 Cutty and really loved the bike. It got destroyed in a collision and in the pursuit of UDH went with a 2024 Stigmata. Even with RK 2.2s from the Cutty (yes they fit) I found it too stiff to enjoy on my local terrain. Ordered a Corvid MAP and this thing is THE one. Is it the Ti? No idea..there are also carbon forks and bars. All I know is it so plush and smooth it is hard to explain. Cant stop riding it. The Stigmata now rolls on Terra Speed 45s and is my favorite “road” bike ever. Snappy, light, and compliant enough for the %-#@ pavement in rural NorCal.
To start, I ride road bikes. I have three steel bikes, one modern, one vintage, one fixed-gear. I have a carbon bike. I have five aluminum bikes. That last number matters because in that group of aluminum bikes I have a hybrid that I've converted to drop bars, a high-end race bike with a carbon fork, an entry-level bike with a steel fork, a riser bars e-bike, and a dedicated 1X gravel bike. There are far more differences in that aluminum group than among the fastest aluminum, the fastest steel, and the carbon. In short, frame material makes a lot less difference than most other factors.
Aluminium is easier to recycle which is also pretty cool ( I've also heard that's it's easier to manufacture and creates less wear on tooling compared to steel)
I loved my old Stumpjumper M4 top of the line triple crank bike...aluminum and a feather compared to modern bikes. Bottom line is the bike industry loves carbon and titanium because of the profit margin...budget builders like Surly build steel sleds
Actually aluminium also oxidises, my frame around my bottom bracket shows noticeable signs of corrosion due to the amount of salt in winter on the roads. However, it is much slower than steel.
Id say its difference if you have something like HT or ful sus an then road or gravel bikes, when you can FEEL every tiny stone on the road. Coud be mitigated by sus forks or stems, but that adds grams... Also advantage of steel and car bon is ti can be succesfully repaired compared to Al, which might not hold after repair.
I have multiple aluminum bikes. Hardtail, full suspension mountain bikes and 1 hybrid/gravel. Mainly due to affordability. I don't feel like carbon is in my wheelhouse and I am building a single speed traveling bike.
Right now I have 2 bikes, 1 Bullitt from Larry vs Harry and 1 Riverside Touring from Decathlon. I hate to ride the Riverside Touring because I find it not really agile :/ The Bullitt is really confortable and fun to ride. Unfortunately a car T-boned me in a roundabout and the frame is KO. I plan to buy an Omnium Cargo, I still hesitate between Steel and Titanium.
I have 3 bikes, steel, aluminum, and carbon. They all work fine. They go places with application of force to the pedals. People think too much. I’d certainly rather have an up-spec Al bike than a lower-spec carbon. The move towards wider tires on road bikes negates a lot of complaints about aluminum.
Same here. Two carbon, two aluminum, one steel. Love them all. Do I lust titanium? Yes - but price to performance is just way off.
My recent aluminium bike is very comfortable. Lots of seat post exposure, it visibly bends as does the seat TUBE! They can do much more with aluminium nowadays and considering the cost it's a wonderful frame material.
I'll never own a carbon bike because I'm scared shitless of overtightening something and totalling the frame.
@@Al.2 Can you share what it is?
I see you have 3 bikes and not very hsrd rider . when you brake a couple of frames then start commenting
I have had numerous steel, titanium, carbon and aluminum bikes. If built by a good builder with a good design they all can work well. They all have strengths and weaknesses. My current main bike is an aluminum hard tail. It works great for me and strikes a good balance between handling, ride quality, weight and value. IMHO the tire size, tire type and pressure probably make more impact on the ride quality than the frame material on a mountain bike. I am currently using 2.35” tubeless tires and with this in mind I am not sure that if I had to do a blind test I could tell the difference between the same frame built with different materials. Again, all the materials can work great if built by someone that knows what they are doing. I do think though that if you are racing Carbon is probably the way to go due to the weight savings. This though may impact the life of the frame. Finally, I participated in the survey. I did not answer yes to buying an aluminum bike in the next year, because I am not planning on buying another bike in the next year. If I was though I would strongly consider aluminum. Thanks for all the great content!
When my carbon Salsa Pony Rustler frame broke this summer, I specifically chose aluminum, and replaced it with the Ibis Ripley AF for longevity, production sustainability, stiffness, aaand perhaps Dw Link was a strong driving force too. I couldn't be happier with the choice, and do not miss looking after carbon.
I love my Ripley AF!
I’ve got a carbon fs mtb, carbon road bike, ti gravel bike, and a super cheap alum hardtail frame built up rigid with alt bars and spare parts as sort of a gravel cruiser. The bike I ride most is that dang alum hardtail; It’s just so comfy on long gravel rides. IMO, frame material doesn’t matter that much as long as you aren’t running skinny road tires.
As a 260lb big guy i just made the switch to steel after snapping a 2017 timberjack at the chainstay(favorite bike in the world/the one that got away). I think I'd own another aluminum bike due to the price and plenty of great options, it's just gotta have at least a 3 year warranty.
The main reason why i switched to steel was the fact that i couldn't fix that timberjack after it cracked due to it being heat treated aluminum, and i hate when something that just needs a lil welding done goes to waste. Riding a steel bike means i can fix it in my garage and even modify it if i have to if it lasts past the warranty. I'm all about longevity and keeping things alive.
Youd still want to get the entire steel frame 'baked' again after fixing with by welding. The weld will create a larger weakpoint
@ brother i do not value my safety i will flex seal it
@banana122049 i appreciate you brother
@@banana122049 complete flex seal bike would go viral and be epic
You could go 7075 aluminum. If you have a break it can be welded w/o heat treating.
I have been mountain biking since 1987 so have seen the state of the art being double butted chromoly to exotic at the time aluminum, to carbon. Initially the aluminum bikes were all about how light and stiff they could be and combined with the XC like riding position they had, they were brutally stiff and uncomfortable (especially when running the must have Flite saddle). But since the advent of full sus, wider and higher volume tires, and most recently frame design and tuning of aluminum, it matters so much less what it’s made out of. The newer aluminum frames are such a great value and don’t compromise on ride like they used to. I still think steel is super cool and same with Ti no doubt. But I think the differences in ride are way more null now.
You make an excellent point that while frames have different amounts of compliance, the tires and suspension really do most of the heavy lifting. Suspension can have 2-6" of travel, while frames can only deflect on the order of a few mm's. Tires can deflect up to an inch or two. Most of us would gain the most comfort buying the most supple tires the terrain won't destroy, and run them as soft as rim strike avoidance allows.
i'm less concerned about the ride differences; i'm thinking more about the durability differences. Aluminum cracks and when aluminum frames get a dent, that's a ticking time bomb. A dent in a steel frame is just ugly, in most cases...
@@fatrobdouble Agreed. The only frame I have broken was aluminum, fatigued at the base of the seat tube to top tube junction.
@@123moof that's a common point of failure, also at the bb junction. It's so sad when a frame dies
As a more senior person (63), I find it interesting how trends change and come back around again. As a kid, I had the same old steel frame many Canadians had ( CCM Targa) . In my mid-20s, I had the next step up, Chomoly or thin walled steel alloy. Fast forward to 2004, my first mountain bike, the new wonder material...Aluminum. 2018 added a second bike ( road) Aluminium frame and carbon forks. I truly believe there are evolutions in material, and there is nothing wrong with any of them other than the trend of the moment. The only one that honestly concerns me is carbon fibre. It is a wonderful material in some applications, but it scares me that in a stress applications like bikes, the average person ( or bike shop) cannot see or detect internal cracks or delamination. Final thought for aluminum being the entry level, remember back 20 years, aluminum was hi tech compared to entry level chromoly steel.
I agree on your statement about unseen cracks. I had the chance to buy carbon bike but I could not get the idea of it breaking due to falling or some cause that an aluminum/steel/titanium could survive.
The carbon problem you mention isn't unique to the material. Metals fatigue (even steel if heavily loaded), corrosion happens, and there can always be unseen weld defects or crash damage. Really, the biggest difference between the strength of different bikes is their intended intended use, quality of design and quality of manufacture.
Santa Cruz actually recommends heavy riders to use their carbon bikes over aluminum.
A relative of mine (66 years old) has owned a Nishiki steel randonneur for decades. 11 years ago the frame above the front derailleur completely tore through. At that time I was in a backyard workshop with my VW bus, the mechanic briefly welded the frame together and we painted it over with Hammerite. The bike is still in use. Last year he cycled across the Alps from Germany to Croatia. True story 😂
I just bought an old Specialized Crossroads from the 1990’s for $90. It’s awesome!😊
I bought it in 1992, and I’ve paddled down all of Europe’s major rivers with it. Immortal!
15 years ago I paid $75 for a 10ish year old Kona Jake the Snake (7005 aluminum I believe) as a winter beater. I love that bike and still ride it all the time. Stripped of its racks and fenders it weighs in at about 20lbs. It hasn't fatigued any more than me that I can discern.
Totally agree, aluminum bikes came a long way and are at least as good as a frame material than others including much more expensive ones like carbon or titanium. It's really a matter of standing and hype. Geometry matters most and I'd really favor any high end aluminum bike over lower end ones in other materials especially if its cheap, comfortable and reliable. just use saved dinero for better wheels for example
My first race bike was a steel Daccordi with Reynolds 653 which stoked my passion to race back in 1986. Then a custom Ken Evans road bike again with Reynolds 653. Then went to aluminium with a Principia 700 in 1994. In 2006 when Cervelo brought out their game changing carbon Soloist (Team CSC replica), I had to have one as soon as they arrived in Australia and instantly hooked on carbon. Carbon then become my preferred material for decades with several mtn bike and road bike upgrades. Until recently when I decided on an aluminium Focus Atlas 6.7 for my gravel bike as i wanted something robust, durable, versatile, aesthetically pleasing and well priced. At 62, having long traded in speed for fun with bikepacking adventures, it's rekindled my love for aluminium.
I bought an 8 yr old aluminium XC bike this year and went on my first bikepacking trip with it.
It was great, responsive and reliable.
I look after my bikes and don't over analyse their various attributes, apart from weight.
I'm really into aluminum frames for city rides and mountain bikes. They're super light, strong, and cheap. I'm thinking of getting one for touring, too.
As someone who has been riding and collecting (retaining not making a museum) bikes for a long time, I've managed to have some in Steel, Al, CF and Ti. When I ride them, I perceive a definite difference in the feel. But I'm less certain about how much of it is the core material vs the specific alloy, tube design, frame design etc. The only one I'm certain about is my Al commuter bike that actually has an Al fork which DOES ride harshly. But that's fine for its purpose.
The steel ones are all road bikes and so aren't damped by wide tires. I DO feel the low 'buzz' factor through them. But their stiffness (in the right ways) and weight are all over the map.
I've got road, mountain, gravel and a tandem in aluminum. The road bike is notably less compliant than the steel or Ti ones. But it still rides fine. But it is worth noting that when I wanted to experiment with a Redshift post, it went on that bike 🙂But tall of them are all just 'fine'. I don't say that as a dis. But as tools that were well built and work as designed. One of them started life as a rigid MTB and now lives as a drop bar gravel setup 35 years later. So it seems to last.
The Ti bike is a vintage road frame I built up. The first time I rode it, I was amazed by the feel. Despite being an old design and running skinny tires, it just felt like it was gliding over the roughness while still feeling (and being) superlight and sporty. Placebo effect? Quite possibly. But it still feels that way. BTW, if you want to play with Ti on a budget, an older frame or even full bike can be a good entry. Still more expensive than the other materials but since it is so durable, a pretty safe bet.
The CF ones are recent additions having 'fallen for the marketing'. Despite the snark, they really are excellent. Fantastic balance of strength, weight and comfort. I too share the fear of damage, but in reality, if you use your brain about what you do with it and use a torque wrench, I'm more worried about contact damage to a thin walled aluminum frame.
So, what does this mean? In my opinion, it means it doesn't really matter. Each material has its tradeoffs. Look for the characteristics (form, ride, build, price, etc.) that you want and find that before you worry about the frame material. If the same bike is available in multiple materials, then consider these properties to decide.
I started out on steel in the 80’s and 90’s (BMX-> 10 sp-> MTB). Then I bought an aluminum road bike. Then I bought 3 titanium bikes ( road, cross and MTB). Then I bought a carbon road bike for winter training. Today, I bought an aluminum gravel bike. I still prefer quality titanium, but the price point for the aluminum gravel bike was hard to pass up. Plus the larger tires will offset the frame harshness if it’s there at all. It will replace the carbon road bike and ti cross bike. Double duty as a winter training bike / gravel bike. I don’t ride steel anymore because of the weight penalty, but more important is that a good triple butted steel frame is expensive to build up. The Trek checkpoint AL5 cost the same as the Ritchey Outback frameset. I would have “preferred” the Ritchey build, but the Checkpoint was more “reasonable” in the mad world of cycling absurdity.
Thank you. Recently bought a Trek Checkpoint AL5 for future bikepacking and love it. I also have a carbon Specialized Roubaix in Carbon, but currently riding the Checkpoint more.
Love my RAAW Jibb! Sadly most manufacturers alloy offerings feel like more of an afterthought. As rocks shoot up and hit the frame, I have far more confidence in my steel/alloy bikes than I do my carbon one.
Given the advent of tubeless tyres with supple side walls running lower pressures, modern suspension & latest aluminium frame manufacturing techniques, I'd be very surprised if anyone but the top racers would really benefit from a carbon frame over an aluminium one.
Another amazing video!
I think aluminum doesn’t really get the best reviews because it has been around for years as only being used on entry level bikes. When Klein and Cannondale were at their peak and competing with steel as the better frame material. Carbon fiber came along and made everyone consider aluminum as the low end bike material, even lower than steel.
Obviously aluminum has evolved over the years and with the increased use of 3D printing and advanced CNC technologies. The fact is, high end aluminum components are better than ever.
at 6'5 and averaging 230lbs I tend to run Aluminum for my mtn bikes to reduce flex I used to get from Steel and Titanium. Same with choice of Cannondale Aluminim road bike in 1990. Granted stiff ride, but did reduce chatter with the AL fork. I commute on a steel 1989 Nishiki mtn bike switched to more cyclocross orientation keeping 26x2.2 gravel tires. I did get a Salsa Warbird recently, appreciate the Carbon for the mixed riding. Just would not do jumps and drops on carbon for my size. Still riding my dual suspension Klien Palamino running AL and 26x2.4 wheels and continues to be a great workhorse.
For bikepacking, and with a lot of experience, I swear by a aluminium frame with carbon wheels and a high tier groupset. Light, snappy, comfortable.
I presently own an aluminum mountain bike, and a carbon frame time trial bike. Way back in the day, I had a steel frame Schwinn Hurricane, however with one light forward hit into a stopped vehicle, it caused my frame to bend wildly, and I was told to forego using it anymore, since it may risk the tube splitting over time. By 1997, I was exclusively cycling everywhere, and had such a thrill riding. You could visibly see the bend near the steering column. From there on, I have predominantly ridden aluminum hardtail frames, and yes, I do feel a little jarring while down-hilling, but the bikes suit my ride well. For me, the carbon bike is more a novelty nowadays, but the aluminum is the one I use religiously.
I have broken both Steel and aluminum frames at the seatpost top tube weld. Both from Trek. I purchased a Litespeed Titanium Watia gravel bike and I have been really happy with the material and build quality. I do own an Aluminum Trek 1120 that was a warranty replacement for the broken Trek Fuel EX7. Any future bikes will probably be titanium as a 260lb big rider, the strength and quality of the litespeed is hands above the Trek.
trek is trash and steel is superior to cheap aluminum which cant even stand a crash
I have an alkuminium bike that is 30 years old now. I upgraded it over time, so I rode a couple of long bikepacking trips (like Veneto Gravel) with it, and it always was fine. Then I reached the maximum tire size I could mount into that frame, not having enough mount points and being led to believe that mini-v-brakes were not good enough, and listening to "steel is real" I built a steel bike with disk brakes, room for 50mm tires, enough bosses for fork cages... And besides those many small details, I do not really see that much of a difference. Both are nice bikes that I love, each for its own qualities.
Steel for hardtail/rigid.... aluminum for full sus. Carbon is for the roadies. Save your schmeckles.
id use steel for full sus too unless you want your bike to explode like in the orange bike video
My Specialized Fuse form 2020 is amazing. I'm a beginner rider and I love it for New England trail riding.
While I switched from aluminum to carbon for my Gravel-bike, my full suspension MTB is alloy. I don´t ride too carefully and especially on a double squish, a carbon frame would already be completely broken from the falls I had just this year 😆 While the harshness definitely was there to be felt on the constant chatter over the long miles of rougher gravel while riding a rigid frame with drop bars, I feel that the type of vibrations one usually gets from XC riding are eaten up by suspension and therefore almost unnoticeable on an alloy bike of that type. Alloy makes most sense to me for a MTB. However, I would not shy away of going back to an alloy frame for a gravel/commuter bike as well, as long as it allows for some fat tires.
Nice content Neil. Thanks for the evocative questions!
Always been a big fan of steel, but I recently got my hands on an old Klein and I've totally fallen in love with it
My primary bikepacking bike is an aluminum Salsa Timberjack. "Compliance" in a frame is every bit about the design as it is about the material. A Surly for example is straight gauge 4130, which is very strong but is one of the least flexy blends of steel. The lack of butting in the tubes also does not provide a very compliant ride. A Surly is a fine bikepacking rig and will handle a load very well, but lets not pretend any surly has every been "compliant". Thats all well and good because compliance comes from many things. Tires have gotten wider accross the board. Road bikes with 32c tires, no mountain bike has had less than a 2" tire(Even in XC) in many many years. Tires will always net you more compliance than any frame material. If you listen to CyclingAbout, frame compliance of steel vs aluminum is actually entirely imperceptible... I'll let you make up your mind on that one. The other thing of note is suspension. On a mountain bike you will almost have some amount of suspension and on a full suspension there is absolutely no way you are feeling a difference between two materials if the frame designer has done their job. Firstly the break away force of a fork or shock is significantly less than the flex point of steel(or carbon for that matter). To compound that, your 2.5" tires are flexing and complying to the ground they roll on long before that suspension even comes into play. The only argument for carbon vs aluminum on a full suspension is weight, and frankly that 1lb could be made up in so many other more noticeable and less expensive places on the bike. As someone who thinks steel full suspensions are super cool, I'll be the first to tell you they will not actually ride any better than an aluminum one. Aluminum is a great material, especially for bikepacking and mountain biking, any offroad cycling really.
We need to separate full suss from rigid and hardtail bikes here. Otherwise we’re comparing apples to oranges.
Also when adding luggage to a bike and travelling on buses and planes, your frame can get all kinds of stresses and damage and steel gives a certain amount of peace of mind here. It’s not just about the ride feel, looks and cost.
True story
For those that answered Yes to the question “Do you own an aluminum bike?” A nice follow up question would’ve been is it your daily or how often do you use it?? Could be a lot of 1st bikes just sitting around the garage and that may make Aluminum seem more relevant.
I thought the same thing. IMO a better question would be “do you currently ride an aluminum bike”
I ride steel but i do have an aluminum bike hanging in my garage that I’ll likely never ride again
I would say Steve from Hardtail Party would be one of the foremost expert on frame material and his answer would be… Depends.
As a Canadian I saw a steel SuperCycle (Canadian Tire) circa mid 80’s. I was overcome utter with joy and nostalgia!
I have an Alum Fuji Jari and it's surprisingly very smooth. It's always a pleasant surprise when I don't ride it much and then go back to it. I also have and AL fat bike and a Steel Touring commuter (which I love for both looks and ride). I also have several carbon road bikes. I used to have an AL road bike, but it was older and definitely felt like it amplified any bumps in the road. In PA that makes for a painful ride (roads here kinda suck lol)
It is often said that aluminum is ridged. But is it true? Has anyone measured the flex in a frame? And what parts contribute to that flex? Classically, the frame is two triangles with straight sides. Intuitively it would seem that the triangles do not flex regardless of the material; that the flex or the dampening would come only from the fork, the seat post, the handlebars, and the tires -- the largest part of the dampening coming from the tires. Kindly correct me if I'm wrong. Actual numbers would be nice.
New topic: I love these programs and insights, and watch them religiously. You do a great job.
The flexing of my aluminum CAAD on the trainer is scary. My carbon super six doesn't even move
I have three bikes, all of them have aluminium frames. One is a 20 inches foldable bike that I bought second hand for a third of the selling price of a new one. It is not that light, although it is a small bike. I guess the material is cheap aluminium and the used thicker tubes. But it is handy to take on public transport when I need to. I also bought second hand a rather expensive German travel bike with a Pinion P.18 and Gates carbon belt transmission, a dynamo front hub, hydraulic disc brakes, etc. It is still in very good condition. The frame is made of high quality aluminium. And my other bike (also from Germany) which I bought new, although it was pricy, has a classic design, with a polished aluminium frame, Gates carbon belt and Shimano Alfine 8 hub. It weighted slightly over 10 kg before I added front and rear racks and fenders. The tires are rather narrow and inflated at 6 bars, and the saddle is a Brooks B17, so the ride is not comfortable on uneven surfaces (bumpy tarmac or pavement in Paris streets). I love titanium, but the prices are way too expensive compared to high quality aluminium. I’m looking for a fourth bike, a fully suspended one (my present ones have no suspension at all), considering getting a used Whyte PRST 4, which is made of aluminium too !
I had a Kona Libre AL and now have Kona Libre CR - I don't know if there is a really noticable differnce between two of them. CR is maybe a bit lighter, and looks a bit better (IMO), but with of them having carbon forks hard to notice a difference on long gravel rides.
That’s an interesting apples to apples comparison, thanks!
I bought an aluminum-framed bike (Felt Broam) as an inexpensive intro to gravel biking. But over the years I've upgraded to a 1X GRX groupset and wider tires and the bike just gets better as I go. Now I'm enjoying it so much I can't talk myself into to a more expensive bike. If it goes on gnarly adventures in the north Cascades and happily commutes to work, I just don't see why I would "upgrade".
On that last question of the survey I answered no mainly cause I don’t have plans to buy a new bike within the next year. Any that I do get will probably be a project bike. However, my main bike currently is an aluminum frame with a carbon fork, and personally I think that’s the best combo. The cost of aluminum with the weight savings and vibration dampening of carbon, especially on the front end
I do own aluminum bike. Other factors were more important than frame material when choosing an e-cargobike. My other bike is steel and if I was to buy another bike it most likely would be steel. Titanium is interesting but a lot more expensive. The bikes I have thought of lately are Omnium Mini, Brompton, and Velo-orange Neutrino. All steel and beautiful quirky bikes!
Never had a carbon bike, have 3 bikes all Aluminium, Even raced SRMR on an AL bike, but in future would like to give it a shot at steel or carbon
As someone who build bikes as hobby and own 6 (1 steel, 3 aluminum, 2 carbon) my go to is still aluminum. It's a good balance between weight and durability. Steel gravel bike just feels too slow & sluggish on road. While carbon feels too fragile for extended bikepacking trip.
I remember when Aluminum was the new, exotic thing - like my '85 ('84?) Cannondale SR 900. Those big tubes looked so strange at the time.
I have a few carbon bikes, one aluminum bike, and one steel bike. Each does its own thing and has its own vibe. For me, it's less about performance subtleties and more about the vibe that the bike brings to the ride. It is like picking an outfit when going out with friends: Is it formal, is it casual, do you want to make a bit of a statement? In the end, you always have to look good.
I have steel and carbon as my bikes for pleasure. However I also have an aluminium as a work commuter. As I'm soon retiring, My winter project will be to rebuild that frame as a Al gravel bike with the widest tires I can squeeze into that frame. Maybe even add seat post and stem suspension.
I still have a Scandium Niner Air9 w/ their RDO Carbon Fork (~21#) and it's an amazingly compliant, fast and non-fatiguing all-day ride as long as the trail doesn't get too fast and chunky. I recently built a Turner Nitrous, but that's a different animal entirely w/ modern geo, suspension fork, dropper post and Zipp carbon wheels.
should be called scamdium because it was just a marketing ploy
I absolutely loved my Trek Farley 5 aluminum fat bike! The bottom bracket housing manufacturing was messed up and after a year they replaced it under warranty and I opted for the carbon fiber model instead
I ride 2 aluminium ATB/MBT cycles by Cube, and a fibered one by Cube. With none of them I do stunts. I just like to ride them and hang out with them, and make them better and better. It's just the thing... I prefer aluminium over all the materials I used so far. So from steel, aluminium and fiber, I like my aluminium rides best. It still has some weight to it, and it has the flexibility and not too sturdy to feel every bump, while I favor it above steel, since of it's lighter weight. It's still to me the best of all worlds we have. + We can't fully recycle fibers, which we can do with aluminium. And the surplus to recycling aluminium is that it get's more pure every run it gets, through the production and recycling, cycle.
So still the best to me. I would want a titanium frame, but they're all so slender, and the aluminium has this body to it still and not too much. As well as the prices. I like the aluminium price ranges. The fiber one I have is for rougher rides I take, but even there, I try to limit the bumps, since I don't want to break it. Titanium is not in my price range. So I guess I'm stuck in the gateway up there? Well the money I have, but the value for money is the same with the fiber, I tried, right? I stick to aluminium because of the fact that I like the material best vs the value I get back for it, which is more than fine with me. So why rip up my marriage to aluminium? HAHAHA ;) Would I want a stainless steel one,...I don't know, do they exist, so a Delorean styled cycle with sandwich layering materials, so fibers stuck to stainless steel? I would want to see one if they exist?!
Every time I add a cycle, I pass the materials, do my own secure reviews, test them, and choose an aluminium, why is the value for the money, upgrade ability, recycle ability, and so onward. So Aluminum it is for me. ❤🤍💙 From EU-NL
My husband has an aluminum and a steel bike, close to the same weight and build. We can't tell the difference. The wheel set and tires effect the feel of the bike more than the frame material.
Bought an aluminum frame because I wanted to use it for bikerafting and I won't worry about it when it goes in the drink (unlike all the components). Carbon really can't easily be recycled.
The end.
Also considering that aluminum can be recycled very well.
Interesting video, thank you.
I have several aluminum bikes from a canyon grizzl six to a specialized chisel. I don’t race professionally I’m a recreational rider, so I’m more concerned about the components. I would rather spend my money on those than worry about the difference between aluminum steel and carbon. My opinion only.
I've had a couple steel and aluminum bikes(one with a carbon fork) but the general lack of experience with a breadth of bikes I can't say I've noticed enough of a difference in the materials while riding. I think I've noticed things more in terms of the volume of tires and suspension easing a harsh ride more than the materials per se.
Switched from alu road bike to a carbon one and could immediately feel much more compliance and comfort over the same roads, although it was delivered on a skinnier tires
I’m going to take a serious look at the new Velo Orange aluminum frame when it’s released.
If I had the money for a new bike I would shop titanium first then steel or aluminum but not carbon fiber under any circumstances. Sustainability and durability being among my concerns. With a generous budget I would love to try titanium but that’s unlikely absent some kind of windfall. My current bike is a steel frame and fork and the ride quality is great. Previously I have owned bikes which were steel and uncomfortable and also aluminum which was uncomfortable. I would consider a carbon fiber fork on any metal frame to lower weight and make for an overall better experience.
My fat bike is aluminium, and certainly don’t worry about a harsh ride. I have a carbon gravel bike, and a steel randonneurring bike, and am in the process of having a custom steel rando frame built. It’s all horse for courses, but if I could only have one bike, it’d be steel.
I had an old 2005-ish KHS Alite 2000. It had flat stays and had an insanely smooth ride. I still ride a 2007-ish giant defy, and it has a more dampened ride-like a carbon bike, especially compared to my ‘99 KHS Flite 500 Reynolds 520. Buddy had a 2010 Giant TCR, and it was the most insufferable ride I’ve ever been on. Insanely stiff, and would just squirt forward under effort, but it was a teeth rattler.
The only reason I like steel and Ti over aluminum is aesthetics. That's it.
As far frame compliance between different material, I beg anyone to tell the difference on bikes with larger volume tires (that are inflated correctly).
My first high end bike back in the 90s was a Klein. Back then Aluminum was the high-end frame material until it became more common.
I think after having an aluminum hard-tail if i bought another i'd go steel..or Ti. That said, once you add a quality rear suspension (assuming a nice fork up front) I'd stay aluminum because it's cheaper and once you have full squish and decent width tires the difference in vibration would be minimal. I do use carbon bars, what an improvement over the alloy bars that came on the Trek. That was worth it.
I just got a Specialized Chisel hardtail this year and its by far the smoothest hardtail I've ever ridden. Aluminum can ride better than titanium if its designed right.
Great video! IMO, aluminum is fine for full suspension MTBs but harsh on let's say road bikes. On gravel bikes because of the bigger tires they seem to feel OK. I prefer steel over aluminum and carbon. My Surly Krampus is a bit heavy with its steel frame but rides very comfortably for me. I plan on shedding some weight off the bike soon.
krampus is way better than any aluminum bike which is the cheapest material of the three and the harshest and weakest. makes me wonder who paid him to push a bike material he doesnt ride so bike comps make more money offering less.
I have an alloy Chisel HT with highly specked components after riding on various carbon bikes, it’s a hoot to ride, and I am more convinced it’s all overblown marketing hype. Alloy likely also has a poor reputation due to the large variability in frame quality, and they often come with heavy low quality components, which will result in a heavy bike, which will be the noticeable difference to most riders. Now I am curious about titanium, must be magic metal :)
Still 50% heavier than carbon, no? My ti frame is yet another 50% heavier, but as a raw polished finish, is not something that can be achieved with alloy and I sit and stare at it like the work of art that it is… and the unfortunate reality is that bikes are hugely aesthetically driven.
I can tell you objectively though that the ti frame is twice as hard to dent or bend as the alloy. My alloy frames have dents and bends.. my ti frame has paint chips and scuffs.
Also, I could potentially bend the stays of a steel frame to accommodate a larger chainring while this would destroy an alloy frame completely. This goes for the process of retruing a frame as well.
@ heavier by about 500g-1000g is my estimate compared to an equivalent carbon frame, likely on the lower end if it was a smaller frame. My bike weighs sub 10kg with a rigid fork, sub 11kg with a 100mm fork in a large. Yes plan to try ti one day.
@@hdoan7167 well, a 5% bike weight reduction is equivalent to 1-2% more efficiency. You could say you’re increasing your useful lifetime by getting places faster and less tired.
I currently have two aluminum frames, one is a hybrid that I use for almost any type of ride. The other is a cruiser style for just puttering around. I am considering another bike, but am more concerned with components and price over frame materials.
The cynical bike consumer that I am is now bracing for AL bike prices to go up. It’ll be interesting to see if other outlets also do “hey, let’s give AL another look” episodes and stories.
The reason why I have an aluminum bike over steel is that I use my things. I don't let things use me. Sometimes, I would store the bike uncleaned for weeks and months. In my experience, steel bikes always rust 100%, when commuting in rain, the bike parking area sometimes doesn't have a roof and gets wet, when I get back I'm not going to obsess over it and wipe it dry, that's where the rust kicks in. Carbon bikes, I've seen massive accidents in my commute, so that's a no. And I ended up with aluminum.
I absolutely love all four of my aluminum bikes.
been riding a banshee paradox for a couple years. 7005, amazing welds with machined compliance in the yoke and dropouts. i just wish it was straight tubed instead of hydroformed. there's potential if companies put the effort into aluminum frame design.
I was looking at their website the other day, glad its still up and running. Its a gem. www.bansheebikes.com
Also worth noting is that not all aluminium bikes are made equal. I test rode the latest Spesh Allez Sprint and holy smokes does it ride fast and comfortable. It muted road buzz so well like a carbon bike would.
I’ve got a specialized diverge E5 alumimum bike. Future shock and an eesilk post … it’s supremely comfortable for multiday rides. Super durable too. Hard to justify a carbon bike for me. Or steel for that matter.
Does anyone know which bike is in the shot at 9:19? It's pretty 😍
My HT is aluminum. It was perfectly fine until I sat on my new XC FS Carbon bike😂 Man, this thing is comfy! Now I am seriously thinking of giving a shot at a steel bike for the comfort. Also steel bikes are soooooo beautiful! Thanks for the video.
You compared comfort on HT to FS here, material is irrelevant.
I remember the days steel was budget material and alu broke sometimes at welds and then carbon showed up and the myth of them beeing not repairable!
Check out pvd latest post of carbon repair!
Now all i want is a carbon frame made to last with the weight of a steel frame and 100% recyclable . That way you can buy once and repair forever ,no welding needed!
Love my NS Essentric Alloy hardtail, it feels more compliant than my steel nordest hardtail.
I’m all in on aluminum between 4 bikes. I’ve hammered my giant hard tail mtb for years over softball sized rock fields and have never had a crack or an issue (other than my ankles)
For me, aluminum is very durable and budget friendly. I’d rather go with another aluminum bike with good components and then also be able to afford a different style bike than save all my pennies for only one bike in a single category. Aluminum let’s me own a lot of different bikes. Ti would be pretty cool though…
The more suspension and tire volume you have, the less frame material matters, assuming sound frame design. I have an aluminum hardtail and I never think about the frame as I ride, especially since it is built to a burly standard. But the possibility of stress fractures over time is there I suppose. I love that my carbon gravel bike is tuned to provide wonderful comfort and efficiency over many miles, and the only concern I have about structural integrity is what could happen when I’m not riding it, i.e. unnatural impacts in directions it is not designed to withstand. My steel touring bike is my town bike and I notice its heft whenever I move it but never while I’m riding it. I love not worrying about a steel frame at all, ever. So why do I hope to go to a steel hardtail? Because of trust in the material and because the thin tubing next to fat tires is beautiful in my eyes. As for titanium, I respect it but its cost leads me to consider it a vanity purchase. Of all the bike types I use, gravel seems the most logical application for it. So to sum up, yeah, aluminum gets no respect. Doesn’t seem fair, does it?
I think we also should consider that bikepacking is a niche segment and steel is probably preferable, in part, because its the easiest and probably cheapest material for a small scale builder to work with. And so, most of the more innovative bikes are going to be steel. That will also drive up the appeal of the material.
Modern frame design, tubing selection, geo and the introduction of big rubber have made aluminum a much more forgiving material than it had been in the past. Look at my niner rlt 9 aluminum, or the specialized fuze,salsa timberjack/ journeyer or any number of other modern aluminum framed bikes...rigid or jarring is not the first thing that comes to mind when I ride these bikes, instead I'm impressed with their ride quality, weight savings and progressive geo.
Here's a question: What role will aluminum frames play in the resurrection of the bike industry from it's current slump? Will the bet be on $12k bikes for tech bro's and dentists? Or will the bet be on affordable aluminum bikes for average people? Which will be the biggest money maker? And another thought: Ever notice the wing fluctuation when flying somewhere? And why aren't there a lot of steel, carbon and titanium airplanes? (yes, I know the SR71 is TI and the 787 is carbon.) Last thought: I own a aluminum Scattante xrl touring/cross bike (don't judge). With 25mm tires it has a stiff ride. With 40mm tires, it's perfect. Go figure. OK, one more thought: which material is the most environmentally friendly? (holding aside epoxy/bamboo frames.) Key point: To melt steel, it takes significantly more energy per gram than to melt aluminum, with the average steel requiring roughly twice the energy per gram compared to aluminum due to steel's much higher melting point; a typical carbon steel needs around 270 J/g to melt, while aluminum needs around 130 J/g.
Steel might take a bit more energy to work, but aluminium takes about ten times as much energy to produce.
@@coralnerd and yet is a far cheaper metal and far weaker. its just bike companies trying to justify selling you entry level and then they try to market it as exotic when its the lowest tier material to build a bike
It I strikes me that compliance in the frame is always regarded as so important. However the main compliance is from the tires, not inflating them too hard, like on a gravel bike for example. Using 40-45mm tires make a huge difference to the ride when compared to 33-37mm tires. On a full suspension MTB the suspension is obviously adding a tons of compliance. So if your tires and suspension give you so much compliance, how important can the frame be ? I see carbon as somewhat advantageous on road bike, much less on gravel, and not at all on MTB. Quality components are much more important than frame material.
I like my two aluminum frame bikes, but the frame is not the only component. One of those bikes has a rigid steel fork, the other a aluminium fork which I consider replacing with a suspension fork. The handlebar on the first bike is titanium, on the other super-light custom carbon, which is much more compliant. I think that carbon really shines in handlebars and seatposts due to ist compliancy, whereas I don't want too much compliance in my frame. I want to bomb down mountains with 60km/h without wondering about twisty frames.
tl;dr: combination of materials with each at their strong points.
can you guys recommend a custom bike builder that has triple butted titanium tubings?
I have a carbon full sus and a steel hardtail, wouldn't hesitate to get the right AL bike. actually wanted the aluminum evo alloy stumpjumper over my carbon one but I found a way better deal on the carbon version
I own alloy gravel bike and I really like this material, but next bike will be steel. Cause feeling of riding, stiffness, tubing and durability as you say.
Hello. Im not in the market for a aluminum bike. Ive heard that ssteal are less prone to cracking then aluminium. Whats yiur thoughts on that!
Steel frame with carbon fiber parts is the way to go for me when bikepacking
Material is an interesting topic. I had a V2 Cutty and really loved the bike. It got destroyed in a collision and in the pursuit of UDH went with a 2024 Stigmata. Even with RK 2.2s from the Cutty (yes they fit) I found it too stiff to enjoy on my local terrain. Ordered a Corvid MAP and this thing is THE one. Is it the Ti? No idea..there are also carbon forks and bars. All I know is it so plush and smooth it is hard to explain. Cant stop riding it. The Stigmata now rolls on Terra Speed 45s and is my favorite “road” bike ever. Snappy, light, and compliant enough for the %-#@ pavement in rural NorCal.
To start, I ride road bikes. I have three steel bikes, one modern, one vintage, one fixed-gear. I have a carbon bike. I have five aluminum bikes. That last number matters because in that group of aluminum bikes I have a hybrid that I've converted to drop bars, a high-end race bike with a carbon fork, an entry-level bike with a steel fork, a riser bars e-bike, and a dedicated 1X gravel bike. There are far more differences in that aluminum group than among the fastest aluminum, the fastest steel, and the carbon. In short, frame material makes a lot less difference than most other factors.
Aluminium is easier to recycle which is also pretty cool ( I've also heard that's it's easier to manufacture and creates less wear on tooling compared to steel)
I loved my old Stumpjumper M4 top of the line triple crank bike...aluminum and a feather compared to modern bikes. Bottom line is the bike industry loves carbon and titanium because of the profit margin...budget builders like Surly build steel sleds
I'm scared a carbon bike will shatter under me. I like that aluminum doesn't rust. I have tires for dampening.
Actually aluminium also oxidises, my frame around my bottom bracket shows noticeable signs of corrosion due to the amount of salt in winter on the roads. However, it is much slower than steel.
KOGA world travel is a pretty bombproof aluminum touring bike
Id say its difference if you have something like HT or ful sus an then road or gravel bikes, when you can FEEL every tiny stone on the road. Coud be mitigated by sus forks or stems, but that adds grams... Also advantage of steel and car bon is ti can be succesfully repaired compared to Al, which might not hold after repair.
My current bike is steel and I love it.
I have multiple aluminum bikes. Hardtail, full suspension mountain bikes and 1 hybrid/gravel. Mainly due to affordability. I don't feel like carbon is in my wheelhouse and I am building a single speed traveling bike.
Like the copper tone shirt!❤
It carbon for me, I can’t shake the memories of the harsh ride on Klein Quantum Race in the 90’s.
Right now I have 2 bikes, 1 Bullitt from Larry vs Harry and 1 Riverside Touring from Decathlon. I hate to ride the Riverside Touring because I find it not really agile :/
The Bullitt is really confortable and fun to ride. Unfortunately a car T-boned me in a roundabout and the frame is KO.
I plan to buy an Omnium Cargo, I still hesitate between Steel and Titanium.
Teasing me with a pic of the new Hudksi! When is it coming!?