Bernstein on Schoenberg and Berg part IV
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2014
- Schoenberg ,intrepid extraterrestrial cartographer ;who at age 70 still hadn't heard any of his major works performed ; I say "Thank You". Arnold Schoenberg not only provided the exact location of those cliffs beyond which there be interstellar space ,but he built a space station and lived out there for 40 years . Damn !
In this 9min excerpt Bernstein shines a light on the limits of basic human affective response through the lens of the 2nd Viennese school ; while at the same time pointing out the tonal implications embedded in Schoenberg's and Berg's serial music . 
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I believe the tonal implications of the dog barking cannot be denied :)
Caesar seems to enjoy chromatic density .
Ahahahahha
Thanks for posting this. Because of you, I had to trash the 12 tone row piece I was working on and start from scratch... with a completely new and inspired perspective. Seriously though, you have raised the collective IQ of the world just by making these videos available for us to enjoy. I miss the days when people like Leonard Bernstein were celebrated in our popular culture for their genius.
Peace. JR
"The dogs bark but the caravan moves on..." Perfect off stage sound effect for Schoenberg.
I love listening to most of Schoenberg's music
I know shit all about music and I can't play anything and I still found this fascinating. Just watched all four in a row. Thanks for uploading.
You know; your comment somehow gives me hope brother .
Barry Purcell but wait, there's more!
There's a fifth part for this
And remember, four by three is twelve.
This is great stuff pax, and perfect timing too! After 3.5 semesters of tonal harmony we'll be diving into the atonal. Bernstein was one of my heroes as a kid. His intelligence and enthusiasm are inspiring! He speaks of the shadow of tonality existing in and around the atonal, and yes, those tonal relationships still exist, but in atonal music, there doesn't seem to be a leading tone yearning for the tonic. So yeah, it's tonal in that there are tones, and moment to moment relationships between them, but without the 7 pointing us to the 1, one of the foundations of the common practice period no longer is relevant. And let me thank you profusely for posting these! I'll probably be buying the series - it's worth owning!
DVDs: Still available from Amazon and you're most welcome sir. PS all 6 lectures are posted in their entirety various places on you tube like "cagin" I think .
Thank you, these uploads saved my presentation on the twelve-note style!
Dan Henry Boehler awright awright allright ! Always said they where kinda like really good cliff notes :-)
This is the absolute bedrock of modern film composition.One of the best examples is the scores for the classic universal horror films of the late thirties and forties.
Thank you for posting these lectures. Inspiring and enthusiastic, like Stravinsky's lectures "Poetics of Music" also delivered at Harvard.
I find it very interesting that Strawinsky, in commenting on the great Symphony of Webern, and in regard to his own twelve tone works, said that he would hear tonal implications in the music of Webern (I do, too). Berg, of course, in his Violin Concerto, completely gave up the idea of preventing tonality. Strawinsky himself never tried hard to be an "atonal" composer in his late works, even when using twelve tone rows.
The dog was a bit sharp
+bb2fiddler aren´t we ALL who listen to Schoenberg?? xD
+bb2fiddler Caesar actually was a very musical dog always at my feet when I played/practiced RIP best friend .
+Marcelo dos Santos ......Yes
+bb2fiddler as least was not flat
that dog.. his timing is perfect
Listen to how Billie Holiday in every note slides all around its tonality!
I don't have enough musical education to explain, but I like Lulu as well as Moses and Aron
Schoenberg had heard plenty of his major works performed by the time he was 40. His Verklärte Nacht, Op. 4 was premiered when he was in his mid 20s!
I learned about chiasmus intervals
At 8:02 - The mythical and grossly underutilized 23rd chord.
I hear Bernstein's bears barking in the background.
This is a wonderful series, was Schoenberg the first astronaut?
The dog sounds like its barking in F#?
But Wozzeck is not 12-tone. It also contains passages of clear tonailty.
Not Wozzek, as it was written even before the twelve tone system was fully created, but Lulu is, most of it, and a lot of other Berg works, the thing with Berg is that one doesn´t notice when he is being fully dodecaphonic.
erick vazquez the legend is that Miles and Gill Evans and assorted other "Birth of the Cool" Musicians would sit around in Gill Evans Greenwich Village apt. and listen to Berg .
i love Schoenber´s music
I wonder if that dog's Bach is worse than its bite!
David simons We had indeed listened to a lot of Bach!
The dog's not (as in the films) called Beethoven by any chance?
Lenny, left the dog in the hotel.
Your dog created twelve tone barcarolles
The musician is in a feedback loop with his instrument. The piano has fixed well-tempered notes , BUT the saxophone or the trombone or the guitar with light strings can easily have bent notes. No wonder the piano based composers struggled to free themselves from the rigidity of the piano!
Hey man I was a cellist and a saxist before I came home to the piano. I spent all my time as a young jazz musician (about the time I first saw these lecrures) going to the piano to learn how to truly play negotiate sophisticated music I wanted to master. So thanks but I'll pass on trying to fight the entire history of Western Art Music from Bach to the present. Thank You very much. My god.
@@paxwallacejazz No offence sir! I love the piano and Western music from the ancient Greeks to today. I was just expressing some thoughts on the dilemma expounded by Leonard. I stand by my remark and I think both classical and jazz pianists have produced great music partly by adhering to and partly by attempting to step outside the confines of the standard harmony.
This is such a hard thing to talk about. I've been directly involved in this music for 45yrs now. One begins to question the purpose of music after a while. Are we not driven as artists to create things which express our deepest feelings as humans ? Is this not the goal ? If the answer is YES, then 12-tone music might be seen as the most rigid and unfeeling music ever created, BUT on the other hand, it could be that it almost forces us to feel new things in ways that all previous music has not. But one must listen to one's own soul. Yes, Schoenberg was the master of his own craft, but did even HE recognize that he was being more mathematical than he was emotional ? And that his own style was terribly confining, and so all he had at his disposal to elicit emotion were the DYNAMICS of music ; Volume, Punctuation, Speed, etc.. Yes, he gave equality to the chromatic scale, but at what expense AS AN ARTIST ? When one composes music, what does one attempt to do ? Show the world how many different mathematical variations there are in 12 notes, or to be a 100% human being full of regrets, joys, betrayals, anger, love, etc ?? What IS our purpose ? To confine ourselves by technique or to free ourselves by our emotions, and just where does Schoenberg lie in there ? One might say by expounding on technique that he has FREED us, but the human brain and spirit sense this better than anything, and personally I truly struggle with the emotional aspects of Schoenberg's work, yet I fall to my knees weeping like a baby to Shostakovich. Ultimately, how does one judge anyone or anything ? How does one RELATE ? Schoenberg has his place in music history. If anything, his 12-tone methods indeed help to open doors for endless compositional variation, but how will humans forever embrace this man as an ARTIST, especially when we know that his style had more mathematical emphasis than it did emotional emphasis ? It's all hard stuff to wrangle with, but one thing IS for certain ; Schoenberg was a PIONEER.
A composer composes daily, just as a writer writes daily, and a painter paints daily, and a sculptor sculpts daily:
Some days the magic happens, some days it does not.
When it doesn't, the techniques of Dodecaphonic Serialism can get the composer going, until the creative juices begin to flow spontaneously.
Art for art’s sake is what killed art. If art is not in service of something bigger than itself then it’s not art.
Another big mistake is thinking that art is supposed to be for expressing emotions. Art is meant to elevate us. If it stays at the emotional level it turns us into mere beasts.
Schoenberg and all these “moderns” got tired of the old order and wanted to abolish it. As Bernstein said, you cannot get away from the twelve notes, but you can attack the hierarchy, which turns out is also very important.
Idk, I’m kinda rambling because I absolutely despise the philosophy behind this music, and with good reason. I mean, just listen to it. You’d have to do a lot of self-convincing work to convince yourself that it’s good, or that it has any depth.
I would suggest looking up E Michael Jones talks titled “Dionysos Rising” to see what really happened to music. Schoenberg’s music is a mere revenge against the order because his wife cheated on him.
hey
Your comments during the video are presented as objective realities but, in my opinion, are completely subjective and personal
Re-reading my comment, I think it may sound rude, but it wasn’t my intention. I just tried to point out I think your comments were subjective. I mean, they are not a proven objective truth
Thanks for posting, but the written comments are quite disturbing, ridiculous and rather stupid. It reminds some silly marching notes in books, where the editor cannot leave the author alone ( nor would he be able to write something of his own). I would recommend you to read Nabokov’s Pale Fire
turn a three-year-old loose on a piano and Schoenburg will arise
All composers are breathing a sigh of relief that you aren't in charge of anything important.
@@paxwallacejazz Amen
In the face of the fact that Schoenberg was a very inventive and musical composer whatever he did, your statement is absolutely silly and simply shows that you never really got involved with Schoenberg's music. It is full of brilliant melodies and harmonies, even in his most dodecaphonic pieces.
"So called augmented chord".....ok Trump
So many fucking ads
The tyranny of the 12 tones. OR the freedom of our chains. But oriental music is not so constrained? Birds seem to sing in tonal system of natural harmonics. Musique concrete relies on sounds generated from natural events so contains natural harmonics. The plangent tone of the oboe contains its own selection of natural harmonics (timbre). Jazz and rock musicians bend notes. Before the piano accordion spread the well-tempered scale many ethnic groups had different scales.
Hey I can't write my post Wayne Shorter Waltzes and Ballads in some untempered system nor could Bill Evans or Monk or Mingus or Maria Schneider or Gill Evans or Jim Knapp or Duke Ellington nor could Ravel Stravinsky Aaron Copland Berg Ginestera or frickin George Gershwin . So as nice as your comment is it's completely usless to Henery Mancini or John Williams or John Barry . Geeez or J.S Bach for that matter. Get a clue
@@paxwallacejazz I didn't tell you how to write your music! Nor was I implying anything beyond the thoughts I expressed. Furthur to your remarks about the writing of those famous composers , I believe they were referencing the other side of tonality when they wrote the notes in the tonal system. The fact that there is a tonal system means that there is also a non-tonal area , that which is not tonal.
a bit tiresome, ultimately.
Oh, Lenny.... stop trying to "prove" Schonberg ruined music. I'd prefer to listen any day to Moses und Aron to "A Quiet Place".
Andrew Rudin Comon you know it's inescapable. Arnold knew it. But you gotta give him credit for respect being shown.