Thanks for your quick response and feedback. My first piece of machinery equipment, of any type, is a Grizzly G0781. Obviously I’m a complete novice, but I’m starting to see the deficiencies in my current mill and would like to improve them. I had probably envisioned upgrading to a G0704 or I’m also hearing good things about the Precision Matthews PM-25. From there, I think I would be at a point where I could begin to make the custom parts necessary for a CNC. In the meantime, I just need to begin to improve my skill set. Thanks again for the great videos and any additional information or files would be greatly appreciated.
That's not a bad start! you could just get some simple stepper motors and make some parts for it to start with. Just to simply get a sense of how it all works. I madelikings my first motor-mounts from MDF. . As long as you get it up amd running. Just find a CNC controller that is convenient and intuitive for your likings. I fell for edingcnc, well documented, good support and a clean interface. Don't know if you have any CAD/CAM knowledge, but for that you'll need something like Fusion360 (it has and EdingCNC postpricessor by default) Again software that suits both my needs and works intuitive. it might be wrong for you, but Fusion has got loads of video's available on RUclips.
Very nice project. You mentioned the tolerance of extruded aluminum. To get a better tolerance , maybe, you can machine the parts. Let's us say machine 0.2 mm off. Maybe there is a cnc shop in your town what can do the job. Shimming is also a possibility of course, as you said. I live in Schoonhoven, Holland, and there is a machineshop what can do it. Anyway it is a nice project.
Hi, thanks Ad! yes, I tried to mention that in the vid (but it's a relative long winded vid, i admit :). It's easier to make a reference cut with a larger and precise machine. You only need to skim the aluminium profiles, (I currently have another machine with a 3100x1750 workable area that could actually, at the time i build this, I was waiting for the delivery of that machine), Shimming works too, but a flat area is easier/more convenient to start with. I guess i lost an extra day of adjusting the rails. I used some basic tools to align it (long steel precision rulers of 500x10x50, 1500x15x60mm, square precision level, dial indicators, stand, and a 1050mm digital caliper (the latter turned out to be very helpful when building a machine like this) Very easy to determine larger distances within 0,01, the calipers don't need to be precise, as long as it measures consistent.
Nice to hear! Thank you! I am currently (suffering a broken foot) upgrading the machine. ATC spindle, upgraded the machine with a camera for positioning, re-doing the cabinet/pneumatics. I'm using a different controller now. If it's finished or nearing completion i'll make sure to get an updated video again.
Thank you for your kind words Nicolas! I need to make another movie if the entire machine is done again. Also replaced the JMC servomotors for stepperonline (OMC) 180W servomotors.
@@berendlucasvanderweide These are indeed some interesting news. Belt errors should be pretty small though, interesting. I do have some JMC non-integrated servos I'm planning to use for my design however aiming at lower accuracy, bigger space (1250x1200mm²).. Will reconsider belts then.. Though I'm not sure this is managable. I'd love to see any updat from your machine. Concerning the mechanics with the profile: you're still happy with the al profiles you've used? Steel linke the printnc is something I'm constantly having in mind as well.
@@dernicolas6281 The problem is that the beams aren't straight due to their production process. They are stretched to specification, which leads to tension in the beam and a deformation of the squareness. I've machined the reference flats on my machine on my larger machine. Within 0,02 straightness. But combining metal (lineair rails) and the aluminium profiles create a bi-metal with an interesting difference in length when the temperature changes. The belts themselves don't introduce the biggest error, but the runout of the holes in the pulleys do. Jmc makes great products in my opinion, but these omc I now have also have two filters for resonance dampening, which enable a stiffer setup without resonances. (I was using V5 jmc's, that simple didn't had this feature). They worked fine though, but I wanted to test the OMC's.
@@berendlucasvanderweide yea - I'm aware of that. No higher end industrial machine is mixing materials and even non mixing they're keeping the temperatures constant. My plan is to mainly process wood anyway. ;) Resonances in long Al parts need to be treated then? Ok. Makes sense I guess... Thanks for the detailed answer! Will follow up whatever you're releasing on this chanel.
@@dernicolas6281 Yes, exactly. Not saying it can't be accurate, it just takes time to get there. (adjusting can take a lot of time, consider it a rainy sunday afternoon task.. ) :). When designing a machine take the posibility for adjustment into account, that you don't have to tear the machine down to reach a screw. A few tactical holes and flanged guides on the lineair rails can help a lot. When machining stiffer material, the machine is most stiff in the corners, where it sits as close to the siderails as possible. Aluminium is very convenient if you don't have the equipment to weld etc. That was my main reason i went that route. Just buy, and screw. Welded steel also requires tempering. I'm using edingcnc, and it can do ballscrew mapping (currently using preloaded C5 ballscrews) and squaring it to perfection is also possible with this software/controller. Te be honest, i choose the controller also based on that, but haven't been using it. It's good enough as it is, but you could make temperature depended profiles if you have the urge to go the extra mile.. I am using an 80160 'heavy' profile for the x axis and the Y, i haven't bothered filling it with concrete or polymer concrete, i don't know if it will add anything. I can machine birch at 25mm depth with 2,5mm overstep, with a 12mm cutter with ease, without chattering. I thought i have a little clip of that as well, have too look it up..
Hey bro I just found your video and this is exactly what I have been looking for, I have a ton of parts but I am still lacking the parts that need to be milled. I am hoping you would please be willing to share your files with me so I could make a machine like yours.
Hi Berend, nice video with tons of good information. Are you still satisfied with the Rattm spindle and the run out? Can you tell me how you changed the fan to a 12V fan - when I checked the pics on Rattm the vent on the back side of the spindle looks kind of built in the case and has kind of a ball bearing - so how have you changed it to a 12V fan? Have you pulled out the whole rear with the factory fan? Thanks Lars
Hi Lars; thanks for your positive feedback! i've replaced it with a high flow fan (from a DELL pc, i can look up the part no if you need it). It's regulated through a tiny voltage regulator and it now starts at around 6.5-7V. I've placed this thermal connector over it that bypasses that converter and feeds it 12V directly at around 40 degrees. The original fan has been removed. It uses a screw. I've placed a small plastic lid (old plastic ER20 housing) over the bearings to avoid dust entering the bearings. I just made a hole in the rear duct and fitted the fan on top of it.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thanks for your response. So the fan is sitting outside of the OEM rear duct? What about the run out - is the spindle still as good in quality as you expected?
@@larsx312 yes, the spindle is still in good shape. When i had a large assignment I bought a 2nd one as spare, just in case. But it's still sitting in the box. Runout was 0,002 and after the two years of use it hasn't degraded. I'll measure it again, last time was about a half year ago I've used it for hours and hours and hours. Also for 10 hour runs in beech, 3mm overstep, 30mm deep with a 12mm 3 flute with chip breakers. I have this warm up routine I'm using, can't exactly remember it, it's about 14k 1min, 16k 2 min 20k 2min 24k 2min. But i also have a regular customer for plastic, and I'm running it at 6000rpm without warmup.. (light task, 3mm single flute in plastic) so it'll warm up during the production run. I almost never run it above 18000rpm though, except for the warmup and light engraving. Indeed, the fan is mounted on top of the oem cover, protected with a fan cover
@@berendlucasvanderweide Perfect - unfortunately Rattm has the exaxt same model not anymore - found these de.aliexpress.com/item/32435696679.html but they hafe not that smart plug like yours
@@larsx312 Yes, that's the same motor. At the time I had the choice between this and the one with the plug. No particular reason why I choose to buy the one with the plug. (other than looks, i like the plug :) ) They are the same motors.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thank You very much! They look bigger when watching the video. Also by ur YT account name I would guess ur Dutch, so Europe market of components ? Which brand are those (all) ALU extrusions ? :D
@@milek021 yeah, the name doesn't hide it.. i bought them from SMT. They are located in Germany. Their shipping makes no sense though.. I arranged shipping myself.
Hello. Great work on the machine and thank you for sharing with all of us. What précision do you have on the axis and spindle using extruded aluminium as chassis?
Hi Raul, I used different equipment to square and set the machine. The profiles had some inconsistency in thickness, that's compensated with shimming sheet in different thicknesses. To be honest, it's a pain in the ass to make a machine with high accuracy (better than 0,02mm) from aluminium profiles. Make sure you have room in your design for compensating the flaws of the material. I used a precision square of 200x300mm with 0,004mm precision, 1500x15x70mm steel straight that's within 0,02 precision over the entire length, and a 1040mm long digital caliper with 0,01mm readout. (No idea about its precision, but it's used to compare sizes, so more than fine for my intended goal) I've spent more time on getting it squared than planned. :) Easiest is to have some reference cuts on the profiles machined on a large precise machine. I ordered a C5 P1 ballscrew for the x axis last week to get the X on par with the y and z axis in terms of accuracy. The current one isn't as precise as it should be. Alumium isn't the most ideal material, but for the purpose of this machine is more than fine. I'm able to produce parts with it that are within 0,01mm. A machine doesn't necessarily have to be very precise, as long as the drift is predictable and constant. I thought i commented a bit more on precision in the movie I've uploaded of it machining the two blocks of aluminium.
Thanks for your message! You have telepathic skills for sure. I was just thinking about it. It's still in the 'stuf to think about when driving around on a rainy day in the car fase'. Need to get a proof of concept running on my smaller machine and implement on the larger machine if it works. I wanted to alter the currently used 'vortex extraction' that's based purely on under-pressure. (the only service the 3d printer serves here is to print ducts and out of sight small parts :) But a lot is on my mind these days. Quit my 2-days-a-week daytime job to give the furniture more attention. The 4th axis needs to be built first. have this micro coolant system proto finished currently. photos.app.goo.gl/V2yz3SkVNbxi7E4V6 I need to get of my ass and spent my time more efficient. Here is the first vortex based extraction. It works perfect with slotting, but when profiling some chips still are airborn. photos.app.goo.gl/dZbuU7iwTLoaHht67 But a lot of POM has been captured, I guess around 98 percent. photos.app.goo.gl/wwTePARvy9XpG2WT8
Thanks for the feedback ! Indeed, I am currently watching at the Datron vortex style, with constant height : it will mainly be for aluminium chips. Can't wait to see your 4th axis, for sure, I will need one in a near future ! And please, provide us with more video haha ! cheers
Hello, thanks for the video. I like this type of spindle. Do you think the 1.5Kw has enough power for cuting aluminium? It's to mount on a ooznest cnc frame. thanks
Thank you for these videos, awesome stuff. I was looking to use 750 watt servos on a similar build to yours running 2:1 reduction on 2010 ball screws, would you have a recommendation on which model if I used these JMC servo motors.
Thanks for your comment Matt. On a similar machine; Don't use 750W, you have no idea how powerful servo's are. 750W servo's are standard used on the other machine in my shop. It's moving a 450kg heavy gantry with 50m/min. Capable of cutting at 35m/min with a 12hp spindle. I would use the 230VAC drivers with 20 bits processor from JMC, but in terms of power the 180W is fine. they are capable of exceeding the machines available spindle power and its rigidity. f you can, use 2005 ballscrews with 1:1 ratio; a 2005 normally has one more circulating circuits of balls. (and can handle a higher force). The only downside is they have to rotate faster.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thanks so much for your reply, this info is gold, I already have the 2010 ball screws, someone suggested to me that if I do 2:1 reduction with 2010 screws I can slow the whip and pick up resolution, So given that the 2010 screws are set in stone would you mind giving me your thoughts on servos and drivers. Thanks again Matt
@@matteyles7466 Hi Matt, I don't know what your goal is in terms of precision or what the layout of your machine looks like. Just be aware that for optimal precision aluminum profiles need to be flattened/machined at the contact-points of the lineair rails. And when temperature changes, the aluminium and the steel from the rail will act as a bi-metal. I would use the integrated 200W nema 24 variant, but there are other options available with an external driver (and these drivers have an AC input, so don't require an AC/DC power-supply) . I don't know about your tuning abilities and knowledge of servo-motors, but these cheap V604 200W nema 24 integrated JMC servo's also have a notch filter from what i've read in their most recent manual. So pretty fancy. How long are your ballscrews? And for what reason did you pick 20 over 16mm? Reducing them with 1:2 sounds like a good plan.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Hi Berend, Actually I will be running duel 2510 screws @1550mm long in the X axis and 2010 @1300mm long on the Y axis, I am more concerned with precision over speed, I would have thought that the extrusion would miss behave if it was machined. here is a link to the basic design. drive.google.com/file/d/1IZtloDBQG0kNmkSuCOKqbGztnBvZhfWG/view?usp=sharing
@@berendlucasvanderweide Hi Berend, Actually I will be running duel 2510 screws @1550mm long in the X axis and 2010 @1300mm long on the Y axis, I am more concerned with precision over speed, I would have thought that the extrusion would miss behave if it was machined.
Awesome results you have. Really! Can you tell me more about that double servos configuration on Y axis? i also have couple of these servos and skratch building cnc router for home use. However i'm bit worried to use two of these servos in parallel to drive one axis. Are they reliable enough for that task? The second thing is PID loop tuning in this case! Are they really behaving exactly the same with the same parameters set? Any problem with STEP signals would lead to mechanical disaster with this forces on the ball screw nuts and interia... And if you want to make any change in PID parameters you have to connect to both servos before you try new setting. Or maybe you are just tuning them with the gantry dismantled and adding some weight equivalent? Please share your experience in this subject. Thank you! cheers:)
Hi, thanks for your comment; and your concerns are/where also high on my list. Most controllers offer tandem-homing, which enables you to use 2 homing sensors (which you can accurately set). The other axis goes into slave mode after homing. What i've done is more straight-forward; use 1 homing sensor, and use 1 output of the controller to have them both set in parallel. This has been working just fine. When turning on/of these motors there is not directional change. You can loop the alarm from the motors to the pause/estop of your controller. If one fails, the entire setup stops. But still, what if the step signal is lost on 1 of the two. You could use an extra gear/belt to mechanically connect both axis. (i've ordered two ballscrews with longer shafts and just got a 2000mm htd belt to do that. GT2 would have been fine too, but the HTD is more for possitional accuracy, i'm making a construction so i can square the gantry using that same belt. But like a said; machine has been running fine without these features well over a year now. Tuning the motors; i'm using the V5's. THey have no dynamic/auto tune like the V6. I don't know what you know about servo's, but in order to opperate properly in dynamic/auto tuning, they only need to know a few variables. Inertia and required stiffness are the main settings. the method you describe (disconnecting the gantry /adding weight to one motor and copy/paste these settings) is also described by the techs from clearpath (or at least it was a year ago). I just took the tune from the X axis, put in on both motors and started adjusting from there. Two pc's and a remote connection from one to the other is very convenient that way. Also; don't trust the scope on the software too much (at least with the V5) with the best tuning possible, according to that scope) i had an extremely low tracking error, while it did some massive overshoot. Took a slow-mo movie to reveal this issue.. But my best guess is that you are using the V6's instead of the 5's. Greetings!
@@berendlucasvanderweide Wow, thank you for so detailed answer. I'm away from home now so i can't check it, however if my memory serves me right i have both V5xx (can't remember exact number) and V604 on my 180W iHSVs. I have one 400W iHSV as well - i plan to use it fot Y axis driving two ball screws. Due to space limitations i have to make a smaller machine what i wish and i have 4 pieces of nice 2005 bosch ballscrews 1300mm travel each. Unfortunatelly they are too big and i don't want to cut them. So the remedy is to use shorter screws i have - 1520. 20mm pitch - at least i will reduce screw inertia problems. Instead of driving the screws @ high rpm's i'll reduce servo output using HTD pulleys. My final machine will have rotating nuts. Regarding the servos: these are the first brushless servos in my 'collection'. Years back i was using UHU controllers for brushed DC servos and other a like. I even rewritten some arduino servo code to suit my needs for simple servo system. I'm also tutning PID at wrok sometime but it's not motion control. Your slo-mo way to spot the problem is very nice!:) What i need not is to find some good source of intormation about tuning program for these iHSV servos. So far i found one in german. Do you know if someone released it in english and some manual/description for both firmware verions (V5xx and V6xx)? Thanks:)
@@The_Unobtainium I watched a movie from a tech from JMC, he explains it pretty good. some jmc specific things where mentioned. I made notes from it, and used it. I need to look it up, it's very rudimentary. Your hearing is pretty accurate in determining an accurate accel/deaccel and to discover an overshoot. I tried strapping on an acceleration sensor from my quadcopters with an F4 board to see if that was helpful, but it wasn't. I tweaked the setup to run smooth and accurate at 8000mm/s2 acceleration and switched back to ~2500mm/s2 afterwards. For my setup that method works fine. It runs smooth and fast. Here is the machine in action in some vcarving small letters; ruclips.net/video/XZ1IyviDmIM/видео.html I don't have any experience with the V6, this should change, i have a 400W version attached to the 4th axis. I'm curious to see what this V6 is capable of on the machine. Perhaps i'll buy a 180w v6 and give it a swirl on the X axis. On the other hand. X is running fine.. If i had to do it over, i'd be buying the 200W version in NEMA24, they are very compact. these 180W's are just silly long.. EDIT, this is the movie of the JMC engineer explaining the parameters; ruclips.net/video/EKrsX3KXtTk/видео.html, i made some notes, but they are not complete. It's not a problem to share them but they are very, very rudimentary..
The Z-axis build is really well thought through. Did you use any floating bearing in the end of the Z-axis ball screw, or did you only use a fixed bearing for belt driving end?
Hi Kim, thanks for your kind reply! yes, it's using a bearing at the end, the same one as on the X axis, so two smaller bearings (16x10x4, 2pcs). Made a uni-directional adjustable bearing holder to release them from as much stress as possible, aligning them is very easy that way. Since they don't see any axial loads (their purpose is to prevent the ballscrew from resonating at higher RPM's).
@@berendlucasvanderweide What exactly are the bearing brand or part number of the two smaller bearing 16x10x4? Could you also explain a little more about the uni-directional bearing holder you've made? Do you mean that the bearing can move in the axial direction freely, only taking radial force (prevent ball screw from resonating)?
@@kimenges8703 Hi Kim, it's a 15x10x4 bearing, if you search for 15x10x4 bearing, you'll find loads of them. It's a common size used in RC cars etc. The bearing holder is made with 4 screws, that enable float in all direction when the screws are not tightened. At 5:48 you'll see it mounted onto the Z axis, and in the 'dibond cutting' you'll see it mounted onto the X axis. It's just using a bit of float around the mounting holes in order to compensate for a +/- .5mm (it's using M4 bolts and the holes are 5mm). The best way to align them is to move the ballscrew nut as close to these floating bearings as possible and then tighten them.
Fantastic project Berend! I am in the beginning stages of designing a CNC to improve/replace an existing benchtop mill . You provided a lot of great information. Do you have an idea of the final cost for the project? Are you sharing the Fusion 360 file? Thanks in advance.
Hi Robert! thanks for your comment. What benchtop are you planning on replacing? Is it a CNC or a conventional machine? I did about the same with my BF20, (replaced it with this portal) the aluminium plates used on this machine (20 and 25mm thick) actually was the BF20's last task. Total costs; i didn't keep track. The aluminium profiles where about 1400 euro, servo motors about 450e, lineair rails/motor/vfd about 1200, controller+case/cables around 600, coolant setup around 230. If you can machine the aluminium parts, you can keep the costs relative low. If you can weld steel, i'd take that as a base. I'm currently working on a few other designs; 1 in aluminium that requires less complex parts (the more custom made parts, the more expensive it will be for someone without a CNC to make) This design requires 31 custom cut parts, (including an aluminium brace for the wiring and 4 parts for the ballscrew, HADEEi made a small sized bearing holder for the ball screws) which could be brought down quite a bit. I started yesterday evening on an epoxy granite type of machine. (i have got a large machine, where i can route the plates for the moulds on) Plans are in progress... :) goal is to use as little custom cut parts as needed.
Heey Berend. Congratulations on a successful project and I hope it serves you well. I am starting to build my cnc machine soon and i have already bought some parts and one of it is spindle identical like yours GDZ80X73-2.2 kw, 24000rpm ER20 13pcs collet, but on Aliexpress supplier page is said it has steel ball bearings. So now Im little confused, Im not sure should I be able to mill aluminium like you with your spindle. I paid it 210$ + 115$VFD Are you sure that your spindle have ceramic bearings and do you have any advice for me? I appreciate you helping.
Just make sure to ground the housing of the spindle properly and connect al the ground points at one star/central point . I'm sure mine has got ceramic bearings but for aluminum steel bearings are perfect.
@@berendlucasvanderweide ✲ understand What about spindle, I doubt motor is in centre of aluminium case. Do you think that spindle mounting alu. surface should be machined for perfect angle before mounting on steel Z axis. Im afraid of heating steel bearings if go high cutting speed for a longer time like you do. Can you tell why do you think steel bearing is better for aluminium milling? Thanks man, you already helped alot, I didnt even knew my spindle is good enough for aluminium milling.
@@eugenega7494 You can not trust the angle of the rotor in the motor. In my case it was OK, but just measure it when it's in place. there are several ways to align it to the machine, but if you are in the hunt for the last 0,005mm, you shouldn't build a machine from aluminium profiles to begin with :) I've used a 12x150 rod in my spindle to align it. Rotate it to determine the runout, move the Z in height while rotating it and take the average number of the dial indicator as a guide for the linearity of the Z axis. On my spindle it only needed side adjustment, so in my case the rotor was fine on the most critical direction. But it's not a ground/reference surface, so you can't trust it. I would prefer good steel bearings over lower grade ceramics. (with ceramic bearings the races are still made from steel. Only the balls are made from ceramic. And ceramic has a larger stability in size over temperature, but nothing to worry about. I used to machine in aluminium with a water cooled 2.2kw with steel bearings (the old style, 3pcs bearings) the round water cooled use smaller bearings to begin with, (which use smaller balls, and can withstand lower loads) but it machined aluminium just fine. You don't need ceramic bearings perse. I didn't say steel was better, I say it would work perfect too. If you look for Rattm 2.2kw air cooled on alie (2038270310) it mentions ceramic bearings.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Yes I found, Its 50$ more exspenisive then mine. I will weld strong construction with tick steel pipes and then give it to a company to machine places for rails and Z axis. I dont know how will they do it but will probably give them spindle also to machine it to fit on Z axis perfectly.
Hello, this is really an impressive video and very helpful. Do you think you can share your design files and parts list, as I like to build something very similar?
Thanks for your kind words Jurgen. At this moment i have no intention to share the design. (never thought about it actually). Don't have a specific BOM either. Do you have access to a cnc to have parts cut?
Hello Berend Lucas. I have a question about to z axis plate. Can you tell me how do you mount all 8 liniar guide bearings to the z axis plate ? did you mount all 4 screws of the linar guide bearings ? I ask this because i can`t see the screws and the liniar bearings sits one beside the other...Can you send me the plans of the z axis please ?
Hi George. It's using the hgw20 bearing blocks for the z and the normal ones for the Y axis. Since these hgw20's are flanged, you can bolt them from the other side. The only other way to mount them is to use a larger plate between y and z, but you'll sacrifice some y or z motion. At 6:24 you can see the difference between the both.
I am begging you :-) Could you make a tutorial on how to wire and configure this JMC servo motors? They have an incredible price, but the only tutorial I have found is in German and I suck in that. IF you do it, I swear many will watch it. I am ok with closed loop and normal stepper, but I still did not get every passage for the servo motors, moroeover the software configuration of the parameters.
Hi Ale! Sorry for the belated reply. I wanted to respond sooner. I have a new 400W V604, perhaps i can figure out a way to make a proper video on showing what parameters on these drivers do. Perhaps i can make some kind of test-rig. But i'm rather limited in time currently.. (that's the reason why this extra 400W servo still isn't mounted on my 4th axis)...
@@berendlucasvanderweide Ok, do you remember approximately how much weight it was moving on 1610 ballscrew? What is the weight of your X carriage? Do you think this motor can move lets say 25kg on 1:1 drive and 1605 ballscrew?
@@99tomson1 my x carriage combined with the z weights about 40kg if memory serves right. It uses two motors though, but it's pretty peppy. Week ago i was stressing it, it was running at 20m/min (4000rpm on the servo's) at 12000mm/s2 acceleration. (1.2G) the long ballscrews started resonating, but the motors didn't throw a following error (it's set at 20 counts of permissable error for positioning, which is relative low) i looped the error outputs of the motor with the error output of the spindle to the e stop input of the machine. These motors are unbeatable for their money, but they lack a notch filtering feature the more expensive ones have. But they are a big improvement over any stepper setup you can buy.
It's a ratm 2.2kw square spindle, air cooled with ceramic bearings. Don't search too long for ceramic bearings, good steel bearings are great too. There currently are two models available. One with a plug and one with a junction box. I prefer the model with the plug.
Hi Berend, very interesting project :) Its seems that you are using Fusion 360. Is it your design public in order to claw inspect it and learn from your project? Thanks im advance and congratulations,
Hello! How did the adjustable bed work for you? I can see that on the 160x40 you have plates that will mount to the outside portion of the standing 80x80 legs. Wouldn't this force the frame to bend "inwards" if it is just slightly off tolerance? Also is the bed stiff enough when only mounted to 4 points? Thanks! Edit: How do you get the bed level again after height adjustment?
Not in the above video, but i've added a scissor style manual motorcycle elevator to be able to lift and lower it. To align it, i'm using steel parallels, It gets me well within 0,02mm this way, so i didn't bother with the initial plan to use adjustable end-stops on 4 positions with a large contact area. About the dimensions; yes, they have to be accurate. It's wise to add a triangle (simple aluminium plate would do) to the back of the machine to keep it square. I've got a 1060mm digital caliper that was a great help to get the parts square up to spec. It's a compromise between stiffness and flexibility. The most important accuracy/stiffness for me is with the bed in the current, high, position. The lower position is not too important (it's meant for getting holes into pre-build loudspeakers, to do 3d work on large pieces of wood and foam for vacuum forming) accuracy isn't much of a factor there. So I didn't bother for the accuracy/stiffness with the table dropped low. It's all calibrated with the table at the top and this is repeatable due to the parallels used re-positioning it. Hope this clarifies. The machine is used most of the time with the bed to the top position.
@@berendlucasvanderweide This clarifies a lot, thanks! I am buildinh one myself at the moment and I am ready to order aluminium profiles. Machine size will be approx 1500×1000mm. Anyway the profiles are extremely expensive. I am looking at 2500-3000€! Where did you buy your profiles and what did it cost (approximation is fine)?
@@kimenges8703 Yes, it's not too cheap. I bought it from SMT montagetechnik, . Their profiles are not perfect (but none of the aluminum profiles probably is) they are rather cheap. Their shipping makes no sense. like €350 for shipping. Total was ~1140 euro for the aluminium (excluding tax) and 150 for shipping through a local carrier. I thought I recently read on a local forum that they stopped supporting pick-up by another shipper organised by the buyer. I know it was hard for the carrier to arrange pick-up. The profiles don't come from Germany but Bulgaria.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Yeah go figure. I contacted that company but they couldn't speak English, so communication didn't work unfortunately. I managed to find a local Finnish company that offered free shipping, but more expensive profiles. So in the end its about the same. End price for all the profiles is 2900€. I am building quite a similar frame as you, with adjustable bed almost exactly as yours! The gantry however is made with 2x 160x80 profiles, bolted together as an L-shape. Also the machine footprint is 1600x1200mm, with working area of 1200x1000. Overhang also on the Y-axis to allow dovetail machining or drilling on the side of a sheet or plate. I made the Z-axis with the rails on the rear plate, and utilized the spindle clamping area for Z-axis travel. This makes for a very stiff Z-axis, while allowing the tool to travel above the gantry bottom to allow for longer tools. There will be a 3.2kW ATC spndle (JGl-100) mounted there, so I had to keep Z-axis weight as low as possible. DMM servos will be used, with a brake on the Z-axis. I finished ordering all the needed parts yesterday, so now I just have to wait!
@@kimenges8703 That's awesome Kim! Sometimes you have to press the green button on the website.. :) The overhang at the front is very comfortable!! It's been used a LOT on my machine. The ATC is something on my list as well, (with rigid tapping) but i have this large CNC that's using an ATC, so i'm more or less deciding what machine to use per job. A vacuum-table is a must in my opinion. I have several, all based on different principles. High flow, high leakage, high vacuum, low leakage. The world of vacuum fixing is awesome. I was planning on making a movie based on the rather limited experience/knowledge I have with them. an adjustable mounting plate to the front of the machine is handy too. Just a 25mm tooling plate of aluminium with holes would do As long as you can set the angle accurate enough. This way you can make legs for chairs/tables with joints under a known angle. You mean you have the Z axis the other way around like mine? I've used this setup for the best stiffness at the highest position. (for machining alumium/steel in the top left or right corner) Is that JGL you bought capable of rigid tapping? that's high in my list, and i know JGL has a 100mm model with permanent magnets that can do rigid tapping. No need to keep the Z as light as possible, my larger machine is using a 9kw HSD spindle, that weights about 31kg. (and is mounted to a fat 35mm steel casted plate). That high weight will also help to provide some dampening due to inertia. Wise thing to get a brake on the servo! i've heard good stories about the DMM servo's! Sounds good Kim! Looking forward to see more of your machine!
Heya! Turns out to be very handy, upgraded some things on it, using a camera for x/y reference (lowered by a small pneumatic cilinder). Bought parts for a 4th axis. It's fast in x/y/z. It's convenient to have 2 machines for my work. The controller is capable of handling parabolic arcs smoothly, so all and all, i'm very happy with it. To be honest, i don't think i'll ever build another machine from aluminium for several reasons. But i'm still very happy with its smaller footprint and overall performance.
@@berendlucasvanderweide The Aluminum Extrusions - if you have 2 or 3 pieces cut to a length, they look exactly the same length. I rarely see aluminum extrusions cut to that level of accuracy. Or cut that smooth on the end.
@@IceTurf i see! It looks better in the movie than in reality i guess. It's hard to cut aluminium withing 0,05mm straight. I kind of designed around that, but it's a giant pain in the ass to get it accurate. I have an 0,002mm accurate angle and it reveals all flaws. I took off the x beam a week ago to flatten it on the larger mill. It was skewed by about 0,6mm. Aluminum beams are not the most convenient to make an accurate machine. I've invested a lot of time in getting it accurate.
@@IceTurf I kind of estimated what i was able to expect. I'm over the moon by its overall performance. Just be aware that when you're on the hunt for the last 0,02 accuracy over the entire work-envelope, you'll have to take a week off to dial it in perfectly. aluminium profiles aren't meant for that if you don't modify them. (making them flat, with reference cuts for the lineair rails and such)
Dankjewel Serum voor deze informatie! Zeer nuttig!
Thank you for your answer. All the best for your machining jurney :) Salutations from France.
Thanks for your quick response and feedback. My first piece of machinery equipment, of any type, is a Grizzly G0781. Obviously I’m a complete novice, but I’m starting to see the deficiencies in my current mill and would like to improve them. I had probably envisioned upgrading to a G0704 or I’m also hearing good things about the Precision Matthews PM-25. From there, I think I would be at a point where I could begin to make the custom parts necessary for a CNC. In the meantime, I just need to begin to improve my skill set. Thanks again for the great videos and any additional information or files would be greatly appreciated.
That's not a bad start! you could just get some simple stepper motors and make some parts for it to start with. Just to simply get a sense of how it all works. I madelikings my first motor-mounts from MDF. . As long as you get it up amd running. Just find a CNC controller that is convenient and intuitive for your likings. I fell for edingcnc, well documented, good support and a clean interface. Don't know if you have any CAD/CAM knowledge, but for that you'll need something like Fusion360 (it has and EdingCNC postpricessor by default) Again software that suits both my needs and works intuitive. it might be wrong for you, but Fusion has got loads of video's available on RUclips.
Very nice project.
You mentioned the tolerance of extruded aluminum. To get a better tolerance , maybe, you can machine the parts. Let's us say machine 0.2 mm off.
Maybe there is a cnc shop in your town what can do the job. Shimming is also a possibility of course, as you said.
I live in Schoonhoven, Holland, and there is a machineshop what can do it.
Anyway it is a nice project.
Hi, thanks Ad! yes, I tried to mention that in the vid (but it's a relative long winded vid, i admit :). It's easier to make a reference cut with a larger and precise machine. You only need to skim the aluminium profiles, (I currently have another machine with a 3100x1750 workable area that could actually, at the time i build this, I was waiting for the delivery of that machine), Shimming works too, but a flat area is easier/more convenient to start with. I guess i lost an extra day of adjusting the rails. I used some basic tools to align it (long steel precision rulers of 500x10x50, 1500x15x60mm, square precision level, dial indicators, stand, and a 1050mm digital caliper (the latter turned out to be very helpful when building a machine like this) Very easy to determine larger distances within 0,01, the calipers don't need to be precise, as long as it measures consistent.
@@berendlucasvanderweide
thank you for your time doing this. Keeps me motivated seeing such nice parts.
Hi, when do you upload more videos?
I really like your build.
😀
Nice to hear! Thank you! I am currently (suffering a broken foot) upgrading the machine. ATC spindle, upgraded the machine with a camera for positioning, re-doing the cabinet/pneumatics. I'm using a different controller now. If it's finished or nearing completion i'll make sure to get an updated video again.
excellent design, it's really a well made machine.
Thank you for your kind words Nicolas! I need to make another movie if the entire machine is done again. Also replaced the JMC servomotors for stepperonline (OMC) 180W servomotors.
@@berendlucasvanderweide These are indeed some interesting news. Belt errors should be pretty small though, interesting. I do have some JMC non-integrated servos I'm planning to use for my design however aiming at lower accuracy, bigger space (1250x1200mm²).. Will reconsider belts then.. Though I'm not sure this is managable.
I'd love to see any updat from your machine. Concerning the mechanics with the profile: you're still happy with the al profiles you've used? Steel linke the printnc is something I'm constantly having in mind as well.
@@dernicolas6281 The problem is that the beams aren't straight due to their production process. They are stretched to specification, which leads to tension in the beam and a deformation of the squareness. I've machined the reference flats on my machine on my larger machine. Within 0,02 straightness. But combining metal (lineair rails) and the aluminium profiles create a bi-metal with an interesting difference in length when the temperature changes. The belts themselves don't introduce the biggest error, but the runout of the holes in the pulleys do. Jmc makes great products in my opinion, but these omc I now have also have two filters for resonance dampening, which enable a stiffer setup without resonances. (I was using V5 jmc's, that simple didn't had this feature). They worked fine though, but I wanted to test the OMC's.
@@berendlucasvanderweide yea - I'm aware of that. No higher end industrial machine is mixing materials and even non mixing they're keeping the temperatures constant. My plan is to mainly process wood anyway. ;)
Resonances in long Al parts need to be treated then? Ok. Makes sense I guess... Thanks for the detailed answer! Will follow up whatever you're releasing on this chanel.
@@dernicolas6281 Yes, exactly. Not saying it can't be accurate, it just takes time to get there. (adjusting can take a lot of time, consider it a rainy sunday afternoon task.. ) :). When designing a machine take the posibility for adjustment into account, that you don't have to tear the machine down to reach a screw. A few tactical holes and flanged guides on the lineair rails can help a lot. When machining stiffer material, the machine is most stiff in the corners, where it sits as close to the siderails as possible. Aluminium is very convenient if you don't have the equipment to weld etc. That was my main reason i went that route. Just buy, and screw. Welded steel also requires tempering. I'm using edingcnc, and it can do ballscrew mapping (currently using preloaded C5 ballscrews) and squaring it to perfection is also possible with this software/controller. Te be honest, i choose the controller also based on that, but haven't been using it. It's good enough as it is, but you could make temperature depended profiles if you have the urge to go the extra mile.. I am using an 80160 'heavy' profile for the x axis and the Y, i haven't bothered filling it with concrete or polymer concrete, i don't know if it will add anything. I can machine birch at 25mm depth with 2,5mm overstep, with a 12mm cutter with ease, without chattering. I thought i have a little clip of that as well, have too look it up..
Hi Berend ,your videos and messages have been invaluable , Thank you. Is there any chance you could show some detail of your control box?
can you make a update video on the machine build?
Hey bro I just found your video and this is exactly what I have been looking for, I have a ton of parts but I am still lacking the parts that need to be milled. I am hoping you would please be willing to share your files with me so I could make a machine like yours.
Nice job , Well Done .... you know that Im building CNC plasma - mill combo 2.4mx1.5m , i cant wait to get done
Did you get a change to finish your plasma?
Hi, I wonder if you can tell where I can buy those connectors that you links screw and connect end against side
Hi, i bought the connectors for the aluminium profiles at smt-montagetechnik.
Man, die connector collet is een goude oplossing, kun je een link geven naar de leverancier ?
Aaah, moest er even over nadenken wat je bedoelde, die heb ik bij SMT montagetechnik vandaan.
Hi Berend, nice video with tons of good information.
Are you still satisfied with the Rattm spindle and the run out?
Can you tell me how you changed the fan to a 12V fan - when I checked the pics on Rattm the vent on the back side of the spindle looks kind of built in the case and has kind of a ball bearing - so how have you changed it to a 12V fan? Have you pulled out the whole rear with the factory fan? Thanks Lars
Hi Lars; thanks for your positive feedback! i've replaced it with a high flow fan (from a DELL pc, i can look up the part no if you need it). It's regulated through a tiny voltage regulator and it now starts at around 6.5-7V. I've placed this thermal connector over it that bypasses that converter and feeds it 12V directly at around 40 degrees. The original fan has been removed. It uses a screw. I've placed a small plastic lid (old plastic ER20 housing) over the bearings to avoid dust entering the bearings. I just made a hole in the rear duct and fitted the fan on top of it.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thanks for your response. So the fan is sitting outside of the OEM rear duct? What about the run out - is the spindle still as good in quality as you expected?
@@larsx312 yes, the spindle is still in good shape. When i had a large assignment I bought a 2nd one as spare, just in case. But it's still sitting in the box. Runout was 0,002 and after the two years of use it hasn't degraded. I'll measure it again, last time was about a half year ago I've used it for hours and hours and hours. Also for 10 hour runs in beech, 3mm overstep, 30mm deep with a 12mm 3 flute with chip breakers. I have this warm up routine I'm using, can't exactly remember it, it's about 14k 1min, 16k 2 min 20k 2min 24k 2min. But i also have a regular customer for plastic, and I'm running it at 6000rpm without warmup.. (light task, 3mm single flute in plastic) so it'll warm up during the production run. I almost never run it above 18000rpm though, except for the warmup and light engraving. Indeed, the fan is mounted on top of the oem cover, protected with a fan cover
@@berendlucasvanderweide Perfect - unfortunately Rattm has the exaxt same model not anymore - found these de.aliexpress.com/item/32435696679.html but they hafe not that smart plug like yours
@@larsx312 Yes, that's the same motor. At the time I had the choice between this and the one with the plug. No particular reason why I choose to buy the one with the plug. (other than looks, i like the plug :) ) They are the same motors.
Is the spindle JMC?
15:06 two profiles for double X axis (with rails on top) are what size ?! Thank You (watching w/o audio, maybe there is a answer but I don't hear)
Thanks for stopping by. These are 80x160 profiles.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thank You very much! They look bigger when watching the video. Also by ur YT account name I would guess ur Dutch, so Europe market of components ? Which brand are those (all) ALU extrusions ? :D
@@milek021 yeah, the name doesn't hide it.. i bought them from SMT. They are located in Germany. Their shipping makes no sense though.. I arranged shipping myself.
Hello. Great work on the machine and thank you for sharing with all of us. What précision do you have on the axis and spindle using extruded aluminium as chassis?
Hi Raul, I used different equipment to square and set the machine. The profiles had some inconsistency in thickness, that's compensated with shimming sheet in different thicknesses. To be honest, it's a pain in the ass to make a machine with high accuracy (better than 0,02mm) from aluminium profiles. Make sure you have room in your design for compensating the flaws of the material. I used a precision square of 200x300mm with 0,004mm precision, 1500x15x70mm steel straight that's within 0,02 precision over the entire length, and a 1040mm long digital caliper with 0,01mm readout. (No idea about its precision, but it's used to compare sizes, so more than fine for my intended goal) I've spent more time on getting it squared than planned. :) Easiest is to have some reference cuts on the profiles machined on a large precise machine. I ordered a C5 P1 ballscrew for the x axis last week to get the X on par with the y and z axis in terms of accuracy. The current one isn't as precise as it should be. Alumium isn't the most ideal material, but for the purpose of this machine is more than fine. I'm able to produce parts with it that are within 0,01mm. A machine doesn't necessarily have to be very precise, as long as the drift is predictable and constant. I thought i commented a bit more on precision in the movie I've uploaded of it machining the two blocks of aluminium.
Great work ! Have you manage to build your "chip evacuation system" ? I would be interested to see how you managed it ! Cheers
Thanks for your message! You have telepathic skills for sure. I was just thinking about it. It's still in the 'stuf to think about when driving around on a rainy day in the car fase'. Need to get a proof of concept running on my smaller machine and implement on the larger machine if it works. I wanted to alter the currently used 'vortex extraction' that's based purely on under-pressure. (the only service the 3d printer serves here is to print ducts and out of sight small parts :) But a lot is on my mind these days. Quit my 2-days-a-week daytime job to give the furniture more attention. The 4th axis needs to be built first. have this micro coolant system proto finished currently. photos.app.goo.gl/V2yz3SkVNbxi7E4V6 I need to get of my ass and spent my time more efficient. Here is the first vortex based extraction. It works perfect with slotting, but when profiling some chips still are airborn. photos.app.goo.gl/dZbuU7iwTLoaHht67 But a lot of POM has been captured, I guess around 98 percent. photos.app.goo.gl/wwTePARvy9XpG2WT8
Thanks for the feedback ! Indeed, I am currently watching at the Datron vortex style, with constant height : it will mainly be for aluminium chips. Can't wait to see your 4th axis, for sure, I will need one in a near future ! And please, provide us with more video haha ! cheers
Hello, thanks for the video. I like this type of spindle. Do you think the 1.5Kw has enough power for cuting aluminium? It's to mount on a ooznest cnc frame. thanks
The Ooznest is somewhat of a shapeoko machine? Belt driven? No worries. 1.5Kw is more than capable enough.
@@berendlucasvanderweide No, It's with leadscrews. not sure but it seems a bit stiffer than shapeoko. ok thanks
Thank you for these videos, awesome stuff. I was looking to use 750 watt servos on a similar build to yours running 2:1 reduction on 2010 ball screws, would you have a recommendation on which model if I used these JMC servo motors.
Thanks for your comment Matt. On a similar machine; Don't use 750W, you have no idea how powerful servo's are. 750W servo's are standard used on the other machine in my shop. It's moving a 450kg heavy gantry with 50m/min. Capable of cutting at 35m/min with a 12hp spindle. I would use the 230VAC drivers with 20 bits processor from JMC, but in terms of power the 180W is fine. they are capable of exceeding the machines available spindle power and its rigidity. f you can, use 2005 ballscrews with 1:1 ratio; a 2005 normally has one more circulating circuits of balls. (and can handle a higher force). The only downside is they have to rotate faster.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thanks so much for your reply, this info is gold, I already have the 2010 ball screws, someone suggested to me that if I do 2:1 reduction with 2010 screws I can slow the whip and pick up resolution, So given that the 2010 screws are set in stone would you mind giving me your thoughts on servos and drivers. Thanks again Matt
@@matteyles7466 Hi Matt, I don't know what your goal is in terms of precision or what the layout of your machine looks like. Just be aware that for optimal precision aluminum profiles need to be flattened/machined at the contact-points of the lineair rails. And when temperature changes, the aluminium and the steel from the rail will act as a bi-metal. I would use the integrated 200W nema 24 variant, but there are other options available with an external driver (and these drivers have an AC input, so don't require an AC/DC power-supply) . I don't know about your tuning abilities and knowledge of servo-motors, but these cheap V604 200W nema 24 integrated JMC servo's also have a notch filter from what i've read in their most recent manual. So pretty fancy. How long are your ballscrews? And for what reason did you pick 20 over 16mm? Reducing them with 1:2 sounds like a good plan.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Hi Berend, Actually I will be running duel 2510 screws @1550mm long in the X axis and 2010 @1300mm long on the Y axis, I am more concerned with precision over speed, I would have thought that the extrusion would miss behave if it was machined. here is a link to the basic design. drive.google.com/file/d/1IZtloDBQG0kNmkSuCOKqbGztnBvZhfWG/view?usp=sharing
@@berendlucasvanderweide Hi Berend, Actually I will be running duel 2510 screws @1550mm long in the X axis and 2010 @1300mm long on the Y axis, I am more concerned with precision over speed, I would have thought that the extrusion would miss behave if it was machined.
Awesome results you have. Really! Can you tell me more about that double servos configuration on Y axis? i also have couple of these servos and skratch building cnc router for home use. However i'm bit worried to use two of these servos in parallel to drive one axis. Are they reliable enough for that task? The second thing is PID loop tuning in this case! Are they really behaving exactly the same with the same parameters set? Any problem with STEP signals would lead to mechanical disaster with this forces on the ball screw nuts and interia... And if you want to make any change in PID parameters you have to connect to both servos before you try new setting. Or maybe you are just tuning them with the gantry dismantled and adding some weight equivalent? Please share your experience in this subject. Thank you! cheers:)
Hi, thanks for your comment; and your concerns are/where also high on my list. Most controllers offer tandem-homing, which enables you to use 2 homing sensors (which you can accurately set). The other axis goes into slave mode after homing. What i've done is more straight-forward; use 1 homing sensor, and use 1 output of the controller to have them both set in parallel. This has been working just fine. When turning on/of these motors there is not directional change. You can loop the alarm from the motors to the pause/estop of your controller. If one fails, the entire setup stops. But still, what if the step signal is lost on 1 of the two. You could use an extra gear/belt to mechanically connect both axis. (i've ordered two ballscrews with longer shafts and just got a 2000mm htd belt to do that. GT2 would have been fine too, but the HTD is more for possitional accuracy, i'm making a construction so i can square the gantry using that same belt. But like a said; machine has been running fine without these features well over a year now. Tuning the motors; i'm using the V5's. THey have no dynamic/auto tune like the V6. I don't know what you know about servo's, but in order to opperate properly in dynamic/auto tuning, they only need to know a few variables. Inertia and required stiffness are the main settings. the method you describe (disconnecting the gantry /adding weight to one motor and copy/paste these settings) is also described by the techs from clearpath (or at least it was a year ago). I just took the tune from the X axis, put in on both motors and started adjusting from there. Two pc's and a remote connection from one to the other is very convenient that way. Also; don't trust the scope on the software too much (at least with the V5) with the best tuning possible, according to that scope) i had an extremely low tracking error, while it did some massive overshoot. Took a slow-mo movie to reveal this issue.. But my best guess is that you are using the V6's instead of the 5's. Greetings!
@@berendlucasvanderweide Wow, thank you for so detailed answer. I'm away from home now so i can't check it, however if my memory serves me right i have both V5xx (can't remember exact number) and V604 on my 180W iHSVs. I have one 400W iHSV as well - i plan to use it fot Y axis driving two ball screws. Due to space limitations i have to make a smaller machine what i wish and i have 4 pieces of nice 2005 bosch ballscrews 1300mm travel each. Unfortunatelly they are too big and i don't want to cut them. So the remedy is to use shorter screws i have - 1520. 20mm pitch - at least i will reduce screw inertia problems. Instead of driving the screws @ high rpm's i'll reduce servo output using HTD pulleys. My final machine will have rotating nuts. Regarding the servos: these are the first brushless servos in my 'collection'. Years back i was using UHU controllers for brushed DC servos and other a like. I even rewritten some arduino servo code to suit my needs for simple servo system. I'm also tutning PID at wrok sometime but it's not motion control.
Your slo-mo way to spot the problem is very nice!:)
What i need not is to find some good source of intormation about tuning program for these iHSV servos. So far i found one in german. Do you know if someone released it in english and some manual/description for both firmware verions (V5xx and V6xx)?
Thanks:)
@@The_Unobtainium I watched a movie from a tech from JMC, he explains it pretty good. some jmc specific things where mentioned. I made notes from it, and used it. I need to look it up, it's very rudimentary. Your hearing is pretty accurate in determining an accurate accel/deaccel and to discover an overshoot. I tried strapping on an acceleration sensor from my quadcopters with an F4 board to see if that was helpful, but it wasn't. I tweaked the setup to run smooth and accurate at 8000mm/s2 acceleration and switched back to ~2500mm/s2 afterwards. For my setup that method works fine. It runs smooth and fast. Here is the machine in action in some vcarving small letters; ruclips.net/video/XZ1IyviDmIM/видео.html I don't have any experience with the V6, this should change, i have a 400W version attached to the 4th axis. I'm curious to see what this V6 is capable of on the machine. Perhaps i'll buy a 180w v6 and give it a swirl on the X axis. On the other hand. X is running fine.. If i had to do it over, i'd be buying the 200W version in NEMA24, they are very compact. these 180W's are just silly long.. EDIT, this is the movie of the JMC engineer explaining the parameters; ruclips.net/video/EKrsX3KXtTk/видео.html, i made some notes, but they are not complete. It's not a problem to share them but they are very, very rudimentary..
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thank you mate. 200 W version? I've seen only 100, 140, 180 and 400 Watts versions.
@@The_Unobtainium just search alie for jmc 200w servo. You'll find them for sure.
The Z-axis build is really well thought through. Did you use any floating bearing in the end of the Z-axis ball screw, or did you only use a fixed bearing for belt driving end?
Hi Kim, thanks for your kind reply! yes, it's using a bearing at the end, the same one as on the X axis, so two smaller bearings (16x10x4, 2pcs). Made a uni-directional adjustable bearing holder to release them from as much stress as possible, aligning them is very easy that way. Since they don't see any axial loads (their purpose is to prevent the ballscrew from resonating at higher RPM's).
@@berendlucasvanderweide What exactly are the bearing brand or part number of the two smaller bearing 16x10x4? Could you also explain a little more about the uni-directional bearing holder you've made? Do you mean that the bearing can move in the axial direction freely, only taking radial force (prevent ball screw from resonating)?
@@kimenges8703 Hi Kim, it's a 15x10x4 bearing, if you search for 15x10x4 bearing, you'll find loads of them. It's a common size used in RC cars etc. The bearing holder is made with 4 screws, that enable float in all direction when the screws are not tightened. At 5:48 you'll see it mounted onto the Z axis, and in the 'dibond cutting' you'll see it mounted onto the X axis. It's just using a bit of float around the mounting holes in order to compensate for a +/- .5mm (it's using M4 bolts and the holes are 5mm). The best way to align them is to move the ballscrew nut as close to these floating bearings as possible and then tighten them.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thank you very much for the detailed answer!
Fantastic project Berend! I am in the beginning stages of designing a CNC to improve/replace an existing benchtop mill . You provided a lot of great information. Do you have an idea of the final cost for the project? Are you sharing the Fusion 360 file? Thanks in advance.
Hi Robert! thanks for your comment. What benchtop are you planning on replacing? Is it a CNC or a conventional machine? I did about the same with my BF20, (replaced it with this portal) the aluminium plates used on this machine (20 and 25mm thick) actually was the BF20's last task. Total costs; i didn't keep track. The aluminium profiles where about 1400 euro, servo motors about 450e, lineair rails/motor/vfd about 1200, controller+case/cables around 600, coolant setup around 230. If you can machine the aluminium parts, you can keep the costs relative low. If you can weld steel, i'd take that as a base. I'm currently working on a few other designs; 1 in aluminium that requires less complex parts (the more custom made parts, the more expensive it will be for someone without a CNC to make) This design requires 31 custom cut parts, (including an aluminium brace for the wiring and 4 parts for the ballscrew, HADEEi made a small sized bearing holder for the ball screws) which could be brought down quite a bit. I started yesterday evening on an epoxy granite type of machine. (i have got a large machine, where i can route the plates for the moulds on) Plans are in progress... :) goal is to use as little custom cut parts as needed.
Fantastic CNC! I don't know if you mentioned this, but what is your working area?
Hi HNTR; thanks for your comment! That's 540x840x240 (xyz) with the bed adjustable, so it could do oversized sized parts as well.
Very nice job 👍👍👍
Thanks Nico!
Heey Berend.
Congratulations on a successful project and I hope it serves you well. I am starting to build my cnc machine soon and i have already bought some parts and one of it is spindle identical like yours GDZ80X73-2.2 kw, 24000rpm ER20 13pcs collet, but on Aliexpress supplier page is said it has steel ball bearings.
So now Im little confused, Im not sure should I be able to mill aluminium like you with your spindle. I paid it 210$ + 115$VFD
Are you sure that your spindle have ceramic bearings and do you have any advice for me?
I appreciate you helping.
Just make sure to ground the housing of the spindle properly and connect al the ground points at one star/central point
. I'm sure mine has got ceramic bearings but for aluminum steel bearings are perfect.
@@berendlucasvanderweide ✲ understand
What about spindle, I doubt motor is in centre of aluminium case. Do you think that spindle mounting alu. surface should be machined for perfect angle before mounting on steel Z axis.
Im afraid of heating steel bearings if go high cutting speed for a longer time like you do.
Can you tell why do you think steel bearing is better for aluminium milling?
Thanks man, you already helped alot, I didnt even knew my spindle is good enough for aluminium milling.
@@eugenega7494 You can not trust the angle of the rotor in the motor. In my case it was OK, but just measure it when it's in place. there are several ways to align it to the machine, but if you are in the hunt for the last 0,005mm, you shouldn't build a machine from aluminium profiles to begin with :) I've used a 12x150 rod in my spindle to align it. Rotate it to determine the runout, move the Z in height while rotating it and take the average number of the dial indicator as a guide for the linearity of the Z axis. On my spindle it only needed side adjustment, so in my case the rotor was fine on the most critical direction. But it's not a ground/reference surface, so you can't trust it. I would prefer good steel bearings over lower grade ceramics. (with ceramic bearings the races are still made from steel. Only the balls are made from ceramic. And ceramic has a larger stability in size over temperature, but nothing to worry about. I used to machine in aluminium with a water cooled 2.2kw with steel bearings (the old style, 3pcs bearings) the round water cooled use smaller bearings to begin with, (which use smaller balls, and can withstand lower loads) but it machined aluminium just fine. You don't need ceramic bearings perse. I didn't say steel was better, I say it would work perfect too. If you look for Rattm 2.2kw air cooled on alie (2038270310) it mentions ceramic bearings.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Yes I found, Its 50$ more exspenisive then mine.
I will weld strong construction with tick steel pipes and then give it to a company to machine places for rails and Z axis. I dont know how will they do it but will probably give them spindle also to machine it to fit on Z axis perfectly.
Hello, this is really an impressive video and very helpful. Do you think you can share your design files and parts list, as I like to build something very similar?
Thanks for your kind words Jurgen. At this moment i have no intention to share the design. (never thought about it actually). Don't have a specific BOM either. Do you have access to a cnc to have parts cut?
Hello Berend Lucas. I have a question about to z axis plate. Can you tell me how do you mount all 8 liniar guide bearings to the z axis plate ? did you mount all 4 screws of the linar guide bearings ? I ask this because i can`t see the screws and the liniar bearings sits one beside the other...Can you send me the plans of the z axis please ?
Hi George. It's using the hgw20 bearing blocks for the z and the normal ones for the Y axis. Since these hgw20's are flanged, you can bolt them from the other side. The only other way to mount them is to use a larger plate between y and z, but you'll sacrifice some y or z motion. At 6:24 you can see the difference between the both.
I am begging you :-) Could you make a tutorial on how to wire and configure this JMC servo motors? They have an incredible price, but the only tutorial I have found is in German and I suck in that. IF you do it, I swear many will watch it. I am ok with closed loop and normal stepper, but I still did not get every passage for the servo motors, moroeover the software configuration of the parameters.
Hi Ale! Sorry for the belated reply. I wanted to respond sooner. I have a new 400W V604, perhaps i can figure out a way to make a proper video on showing what parameters on these drivers do. Perhaps i can make some kind of test-rig. But i'm rather limited in time currently.. (that's the reason why this extra 400W servo still isn't mounted on my 4th axis)...
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thank you very much and of course only when you have time :-) following really close, so when it's on I won't miss it
Hello, impressive work, well done! Do you have reduction on belt driving ball screws or is it 1:1?
Hi Tomi. Thanks for your comment. It's using a 1:1 drive with 1605 ballscrews. I've seen these motors being used with 1:1 on a 1610 ballscrew.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Ok, do you remember approximately how much weight it was moving on 1610 ballscrew? What is the weight of your X carriage? Do you think this motor can move lets say 25kg on 1:1 drive and 1605 ballscrew?
@@99tomson1 my x carriage combined with the z weights about 40kg if memory serves right. It uses two motors though, but it's pretty peppy. Week ago i was stressing it, it was running at 20m/min (4000rpm on the servo's) at 12000mm/s2 acceleration. (1.2G) the long ballscrews started resonating, but the motors didn't throw a following error (it's set at 20 counts of permissable error for positioning, which is relative low) i looped the error outputs of the motor with the error output of the spindle to the e stop input of the machine. These motors are unbeatable for their money, but they lack a notch filtering feature the more expensive ones have. But they are a big improvement over any stepper setup you can buy.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Thank you a lot, if i will have any more questions i will ask here :)
Hi, can you post a link to the spindle model number
It's a ratm 2.2kw square spindle, air cooled with ceramic bearings. Don't search too long for ceramic bearings, good steel bearings are great too. There currently are two models available. One with a plug and one with a junction box. I prefer the model with the plug.
Hi Berend, very interesting project :) Its seems that you are using Fusion 360. Is it your design public in order to claw inspect it and learn from your project? Thanks im advance and congratulations,
Hello! How did the adjustable bed work for you? I can see that on the 160x40 you have plates that will mount to the outside portion of the standing 80x80 legs. Wouldn't this force the frame to bend "inwards" if it is just slightly off tolerance? Also is the bed stiff enough when only mounted to 4 points? Thanks!
Edit: How do you get the bed level again after height adjustment?
Not in the above video, but i've added a scissor style manual motorcycle elevator to be able to lift and lower it. To align it, i'm using steel parallels, It gets me well within 0,02mm this way, so i didn't bother with the initial plan to use adjustable end-stops on 4 positions with a large contact area. About the dimensions; yes, they have to be accurate. It's wise to add a triangle (simple aluminium plate would do) to the back of the machine to keep it square. I've got a 1060mm digital caliper that was a great help to get the parts square up to spec. It's a compromise between stiffness and flexibility. The most important accuracy/stiffness for me is with the bed in the current, high, position. The lower position is not too important (it's meant for getting holes into pre-build loudspeakers, to do 3d work on large pieces of wood and foam for vacuum forming) accuracy isn't much of a factor there. So I didn't bother for the accuracy/stiffness with the table dropped low. It's all calibrated with the table at the top and this is repeatable due to the parallels used re-positioning it. Hope this clarifies. The machine is used most of the time with the bed to the top position.
@@berendlucasvanderweide This clarifies a lot, thanks! I am buildinh one myself at the moment and I am ready to order aluminium profiles. Machine size will be approx 1500×1000mm. Anyway the profiles are extremely expensive. I am looking at 2500-3000€! Where did you buy your profiles and what did it cost (approximation is fine)?
@@kimenges8703 Yes, it's not too cheap. I bought it from SMT montagetechnik, . Their profiles are not perfect (but none of the aluminum profiles probably is) they are rather cheap. Their shipping makes no sense. like €350 for shipping. Total was ~1140 euro for the aluminium (excluding tax) and 150 for shipping through a local carrier. I thought I recently read on a local forum that they stopped supporting pick-up by another shipper organised by the buyer. I know it was hard for the carrier to arrange pick-up. The profiles don't come from Germany but Bulgaria.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Yeah go figure. I contacted that company but they couldn't speak English, so communication didn't work unfortunately. I managed to find a local Finnish company that offered free shipping, but more expensive profiles. So in the end its about the same. End price for all the profiles is 2900€. I am building quite a similar frame as you, with adjustable bed almost exactly as yours! The gantry however is made with 2x 160x80 profiles, bolted together as an L-shape. Also the machine footprint is 1600x1200mm, with working area of 1200x1000. Overhang also on the Y-axis to allow dovetail machining or drilling on the side of a sheet or plate. I made the Z-axis with the rails on the rear plate, and utilized the spindle clamping area for Z-axis travel. This makes for a very stiff Z-axis, while allowing the tool to travel above the gantry bottom to allow for longer tools. There will be a 3.2kW ATC spndle (JGl-100) mounted there, so I had to keep Z-axis weight as low as possible. DMM servos will be used, with a brake on the Z-axis. I finished ordering all the needed parts yesterday, so now I just have to wait!
@@kimenges8703 That's awesome Kim! Sometimes you have to press the green button on the website.. :) The overhang at the front is very comfortable!! It's been used a LOT on my machine. The ATC is something on my list as well, (with rigid tapping) but i have this large CNC that's using an ATC, so i'm more or less deciding what machine to use per job. A vacuum-table is a must in my opinion. I have several, all based on different principles. High flow, high leakage, high vacuum, low leakage. The world of vacuum fixing is awesome. I was planning on making a movie based on the rather limited experience/knowledge I have with them. an adjustable mounting plate to the front of the machine is handy too. Just a 25mm tooling plate of aluminium with holes would do As long as you can set the angle accurate enough. This way you can make legs for chairs/tables with joints under a known angle. You mean you have the Z axis the other way around like mine? I've used this setup for the best stiffness at the highest position. (for machining alumium/steel in the top left or right corner) Is that JGL you bought capable of rigid tapping? that's high in my list, and i know JGL has a 100mm model with permanent magnets that can do rigid tapping. No need to keep the Z as light as possible, my larger machine is using a 9kw HSD spindle, that weights about 31kg. (and is mounted to a fat 35mm steel casted plate). That high weight will also help to provide some dampening due to inertia. Wise thing to get a brake on the servo! i've heard good stories about the DMM servo's! Sounds good Kim! Looking forward to see more of your machine!
Where did you buy the aluminum extrusions from? What company?
SMT in Germany. Keeo in mind that aluminium profiles don't come perfectly straight and are not cut at a perfect 90 degree angle.
Hey, how did things turn out with this? :)
Heya! Turns out to be very handy, upgraded some things on it, using a camera for x/y reference (lowered by a small pneumatic cilinder). Bought parts for a 4th axis. It's fast in x/y/z. It's convenient to have 2 machines for my work. The controller is capable of handling parabolic arcs smoothly, so all and all, i'm very happy with it. To be honest, i don't think i'll ever build another machine from aluminium for several reasons. But i'm still very happy with its smaller footprint and overall performance.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Sounds like maybe its time for a quick video update :)
How did you get those all cut the same length?
What do you mean?
@@berendlucasvanderweide The Aluminum Extrusions - if you have 2 or 3 pieces cut to a length, they look exactly the same length. I rarely see aluminum extrusions cut to that level of accuracy. Or cut that smooth on the end.
@@IceTurf i see! It looks better in the movie than in reality i guess. It's hard to cut aluminium withing 0,05mm straight. I kind of designed around that, but it's a giant pain in the ass to get it accurate. I have an 0,002mm accurate angle and it reveals all flaws. I took off the x beam a week ago to flatten it on the larger mill. It was skewed by about 0,6mm. Aluminum beams are not the most convenient to make an accurate machine. I've invested a lot of time in getting it accurate.
@@berendlucasvanderweide Was it worth it to build your machine? How did it turn out?
@@IceTurf I kind of estimated what i was able to expect. I'm over the moon by its overall performance. Just be aware that when you're on the hunt for the last 0,02 accuracy over the entire work-envelope, you'll have to take a week off to dial it in perfectly. aluminium profiles aren't meant for that if you don't modify them. (making them flat, with reference cuts for the lineair rails and such)
wow mang we almost have the same design but i use 100*100 and 100*200
Curious to see your machine! Got a video of it?
@@renevanderweide8137 maybe in 2 weeks still in shipping
@@renevanderweide8137 here the picture of my design www.cnczone.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=415318&d=1552502118
@@wanv1373 Nice!! I see some overlapping design considerations. Are you planning on using servos or closed loop steppers?
@@berendlucasvanderweide im using servo for all axis 400 watt 20 bit servo with 2:1 gearing x y 3:1 for z
Hallo Berend, mag ik je een email sturen?. gr Kees van Beurden
Ja, tuurlijk! Als je mij je mailadres geeft?
Hier is mijn emailadres Berend, "elvis3@zonnet.nl"
Heb je het email adres gezien?