This is an interesting question. There was/is a woman from Africa (I believe the Congo, if memory serves me correct) who took a DNA test and shared the video here on RUclips. A part of her genetic communities were in Brazil, and also in Japan. I believe her other two genetic communities was in North Africa, and the southern USA (Tennessee). She called the DNA company "A SCAM" (My Heritage). But, I felt not so fast. I wanted to see what common thread was causing this connection. She explained she never traveled to any of these places. I did some research and found one common connection: Portugal! During the age of colonial exploration, Portugal took slaves from Africa to Brazil, and there was also a Portuguese slave trade of Africans as far away as Japan. The genetic groups she was a part of encompasses the Congo; although, Portugal was more busy in Angola and Mozambique. The connection with North Africa was trickier to explain, but it's not easy to see that the British could've been responsible for taking some of her relatives to the southern regions of the USA (especially if they migrated in Africa whether before, or after colonial borders were new). She seemed to get defensive to my explanation, so I deleted my comment, and left her alone.
Communities aren't just from ancestors but where your distant cousins end up. For example my Irish grandpa has in his communities settlers in many parts of the US and Canada, but it's because some of the brothers of sisters of his direct ancestors emigrated there, so this woman just isn't understanding what the communities are. That said I can sympathize with her thinking it is a scam because the DNA companies sell this finding out your ethnicity as though it is 100% accurate and can also be defined by the borders of modern countries, whereas is you actually look at these pages it often has a wide range for what that percentage it gives you can actually be, which sometimes can be as low as 0% (but this isn't made very clear because these companies don't want you to think it's not doing what you thought it was, that you've been mis-sold the product. My grandpa, despite us having extensively researched his family tree, we have got most of his direct ancestors back to about 1800 (a few missing lines, but not many) and all were living in the province of Ulster, which if you don't know Ireland is in the North of the island part of it is Northern Ireland. We got his DNA tested for his 100th birthday for genealogy purposes not ethnicity, and we did expect a reasonable part of his DNA to have some Scottish in it (there has been a lot of mixing over the centuries), but his Ethnicity Estimate says he has one Irish parent (his mother) and one Scottish parent (well 96%). Now I'm not saying this isn't true if you go far enough back you wouldn't find this, but to me either even with the reference populations mentioned there is no way of separating these regions neatly won't modern boundaries, in fact the some of the communities do overlap, which makes more sense. My grandpa would have to have nearly all his great grandparents on his father's side having Scottish heritage, he doesn't, maybe even his 2x great grandparent all but 1 being Scottish, again he doesn't. We have found many of his great uncles or aunts did move to Scotland in the 1800s so I think this has seeded Irish DNA into some reference groups. Failing that I think they allow new people into the reference groups who they test and they come back 100% whatever group they are applying to be in, but if that reference group isn't 100% correct they might just be adding more people that aren't 100% (or very close to being that) in and just confirming an amazing corrupted group. It wouldn't take much for this to happen imo. You may be asking me what has Scotland and Ireland got too do with Congo and Brazil/Japan? Well as you pointed out during the Age of Discovery many African slaves were taken over to Brazil, Brazil is one of the most diverse population on earth where people of different ethnicities have interbred. Having been to Brazil on a number of occasions there are large Asian communities as well and they too have intermarried with the anyway diverse population making it even more ethnically diverse!!! So I'm not sure, apart from Native South American, just like in the US, you can't have a Brazilian ethnic group, it will be a melting pot of European, African, and Asian, with probably some native ethnicity thrown in for your measure!!! So it must be just a community, which isn't the ethnicity, but where some of her matches must be and they will have gotten there via slavery (the Asian is just probably a misreading from some Brazilian distant cousins else ancestry mixed with Asian immigrants along the way). I think this is just them not understanding what is being shown here, which is can understand because it isn't very clearly presented in these sites.
@@mattpotter8725 I'm glad you mentioned that. Yes! Brazil has the largest Japanese population outside of Japan. I informed her that intermingling may have taken place during those Portuguese exploration voyages. As a matter of fact, during the 16th-17th centuries the ruling regime in Japan presented a much stronger Portugal with female slave comforters for their voyages (a sorta "comfort women" even back then). Portugal traveled with enslaved African men during those voyages whom also interbred with many of those Japanese slave women. Other European explorers also did this, and the Black/African Samurai warrior of Japan, "Yasuke" is believed by some Historians to have possibly come from Mozambique (a former Portuguese colony). He is said to have sailed with the Italian explorer 'Alessandro Valignano' (an Italian Jesuit). I sought to explain to this woman that her family of old likely was caught up in some of this, but she was more interested in rewriting what she wanted to believe, and refuted where I was going with this to the point where I gave up. LOL. I said to myself, "I'm only trying to help her figure some of this out". Then some continental Africans began siding with her in her comment's section, and began trying to lure me into arguing. Yet, with the resistance, I asked myself, "Do I really want to put myself through this?" She seemed to have an obsessive bend on trying to ridicule the results she got from My Heritage, and I lost interest in going back and forth with her, so I deleted my comments and moved on. I'm Black American (with 1 non-Black American genetic group), and this interaction kinda taught me to mind my own beeswax when it comes to the DNA results of certain other ethnicities. It's the first real time I really felt that way. I felt why bother? Here's the deal with many people. I think many people truly believe just because a previous region where Europeans settled, or a particular Indo-European language is spoken makes that particular branch of Europeans the long term settlers. That's not always true. Spain was in Jamaica before Britain was in Jamaica. I know Jamaicans know this, but how many know it outside of Jamaica's history? Spain was in Haiti before France was in Haiti. Portugal reached Indonesia (and many other places in Asia) before The Netherlands reached Indonesia. My point? Maybe she felt just because she never heard of Portugal having any direct dealings with the Congo way back when (Belgium ruled the Congo), it just didn't happen, and I was creating a fanciful scenario just to prove my point. She didn't consider the political boundaries are an artificial construct that cut between tribal areas, and tribes via the Bantu migrations were on the move here and there, and even afterwards. Tribes on the Mozambique - South African border regions constantly moved back and forth in the 16th century. Portugal was active in that region. Portugal was seemingly even active in the Kenya region before England got involved. Fundamentally speaking, I sought to create a consideration for her to either enlighten her understanding of her family's elusive lineage, or figure a cause for her to launch her own research to extend this realm of possibilities pertaining to why she received the results she received. But, I decided not to stress myself out. It is what it is...
@@doubleutee2100 People have often, and I think this happens in every country been told the version of history for political reasons, some parts correct, others wrongly, because we you say the Spanish and Portuguese were in the Caribbean before the British, and after they became British colonies they didn't want any knowledge of who was in charge probably so it was just airbrushed out of history, a little like the fact that the Dutch founded New York as New Amsterdam before the British got there and took it over. Both there and in the Caribbean you only have to look at some of the placenames to see this, the Bronx and Harlem in NYC, and Ireland like Jamaica and Antigua in the Caribbean. As for your argument that you didn't want to get into, there's not much you can do, but I think at least some of this is due to anti colonial sentiment, which I can completely understand, but denying what you were explaining ever happened doesn't mean it didn't happen, and in the end it is they all are losing out by not understanding the complex history of their forebears, however horrific it was. I've seen some amazing churches in Brazil (and I'm not particularly religious), one in particular that stands out in my memory in Ouro Preto, Minas Gerais that was built by freed slaves that is just beautiful, the iconography, the gold leaf, the decoration, it's just breathtaking. The Congo probably is unique to other "countries" because of the horrific genocide that occurred there under the control basically of the Belgian King Leopold (I think that is right) who treated the territory as his own personal property and really horrific things went on there under his control. This just fed into their narrative, which I would do what you can to inform them, but in the end they have to be open to new parts of the history of their peoples. If they won't there not much you can do. The fact is though that DNA doesn't lie, even if the analysis of it for these Ethnicity Estimates isn't 100% accurate. I mean MyHeritage says I have 1% Inuit in me, which is very, very unlikely, but looking at the range on this estimate will say in the email print that it could be between 0% and 2% maybe (but no one looks at the small print information, it's not presented very in your face, because the DNA companies really on hard facts to sell their product, which saddens me).
This is honestly a topic I never thought of. Being primarily European, with some Native American (which can also show up as Asian), Sub-Saharan African and North African DNA, I can’t think of too many people that I WOULDN’T share at least one ethnic group with! And I’ve definitely never noticed this in my matches.
I don't really know how prevalent it is, would like to know, but for someone like you, I would guess that you might never find a match that doesn't share an ethnic group with you.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics For me it's extremely prevalent, I am from Croatia and I have no Finnish ethnicity yet I match with "pure" Finns (98%+ Finnish & small% Inuit/Japan&Korea), Finland is my 4th highest country by number of matches, the first 3 being standard emigration targets for Croats (Germany/US/Sweden). These Finnish people have no shared ethnicity and I have 20+cM matches
Have a weird case of this on MyHeritage. Uploaded my test from 23andMe which had strong Scandinavian/Finnish representation. Got back 0% Scandinavian/Finnish ethnicity and one genetic group on the Swedish-Finnish border. However, the majority of my 11,000 MyHeritage DNA matches are Scandinavian/Finnish and their trees validate that my family lines have been there for centuries. Some of them match the genetic group or surprisingly my British ethnicity but the vast majority don’t share an ethnicity with me as they’re almost 100% Scandinavian or Finnish. It doesn’t really affect my research and the matches actually broke down brick walls so it was still worth it but it’s just funny that MyHeritage didn’t identify the main ethnicities I match with on their site while 23andMe did.
🤔 that's interesting, because I would like to retest again. I tested thru Family Tree first, and then Ancestry and got a lil different results in DNA and actually DNA that I didn't know I had. My dad's DNA had just 1% Scotland, and Norway, 2% Jewish and 4 areas of Africa in 2%. My cousin had 3 areas of Africa similar to my dad's areas but he showed Finnish 1%, Scotland 1%, Ireland 1%, and Sardinia 1%. A first cousin I didn't know about who is my cousins half brother actually has more Norway, and some indigenous because of my uncle ( his biological father), my dad, my cousin, and myself. He sent us photos of his children. His daughter looks a lot like my dad's mom from the 1930's wow... And I started testing in 2021 because I was told we had Jewish in my mom's grandparents parents, and German. I didn't show German DNA, and neither did my mom's niece or her daughter. We all three showed England DNA wow....
Glad to find your channel. I am sure going to check out your content to see if you have any videos on endogamy lines. I have over 170,000 matches on Ancestry and 18,000 on MyHeritage. I have a majority of Acadian ancestors
I never new what a centimorgan was, when I saw my first cousin for the first time in my DNA match list in Family Tree I was surprised. We shared very high centimorgan, I just didn't understand what that was. But I would look at his profile picture with his wife and wonder. I wondered a whole year and 5 months until I finally emailed his wife. I found out he had started searching for his biological dad( my uncle) since 2018 😮 My uncle never knew about him, and he passed away 25yrs ago. I was so excited. I had moved from fear to excitement. We have shared photos, and my cousin and his wife just might come to our area andmeet us. 🤗😔🙏
Thank you for this amazing video - I got my results couple of days ago and one thing that strikes me is the amount of DNA matches that I have with some ppl that I share 0% ethnicity with but what I have noticed is that one thing is in common for these matches that doesn’t match with me had one ethnicity in common Scottish and English where I am 94% North African 3% Senegal 2% Arabian pensuila 1% Nigeria
Thanks I had that exact question to Ancestry's three years ago. They did not respond correctly and have been dissatisfied since. That being said I still don't understand why this type of match is being shown to me. Besides adding confusion and second guessing the results it provides absolutely no information let alone useful information.
In a nutshell, as long as it is not a false match ( which is more than likely the case for small segment matches), then they show you the match because you match DNA. Ethnicity results are a lot more fuzzy/inaccurate/guesstimate so that is one of the last places I would look.
Interesting. I get some obvious false matches. LIke really small centimorgans. Some matches with really small centimorgans, however, aren't false matches and can be proven ancestrally. I found a provable 4th cousin in Australia with whom I share a paltry 8 cM. Some of my MyHeritage matches don't match either of my parents, though weirdly they do on Geneanet using the same kit. But sometimes the children, parents, and 1st cousins of those parentally unmatched matches do match my parents. I've got matches in Scandinavian countries which are ancestrally (as of the past 300-400 years) undetermined thus far. But I know my Scottish history, and realise that Scottish soldiers fought as mercenaries for the Kingdom of Sweden in the 17th century. One such soldier is commemorated in a cathedral in Finland. This might explain why I get matches in some Baltic states and Russia where the Swedish army was fighting. Moreover, some of those Scandinavian matches might be accounted because for several centuries Scotland's northern isles (Shetland and Orkney) had been leased to the Kingdom of Norway, and therefore would have incurred much Norwegian and Danish settlement. My father gets about 16 matches on the Faroe Islands, and on MyTrueAncestry shares a lot of DNA with one of the samples from the Faroes, e.g. the Sandoy dig. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. Anyway, good video, as per usual.
Thanks for another interesting video. I haven't noticed this issue in my match lists yet. But with over 71,000 matches on Ancestry alone (was well over 100,000 before The Great Culling!), I may never find them. Have a blessed evening. :)
I was the one who asked this. Thank you! I forgot to mention this but I did have a match who like these European matches did not share an ethnicity with me. Eventually I was given a region that he had and now we match in a region. So it might be possible that I could receive a European region in the future.
From a second great grandparent, you'd be expecting around an average 6.25% but there's a few reasons why it could end up not being reflected in your results. You could simply have just not inherited any of it, it could be being picked up as another, similar group, your second great grandfather could have been more of a mix than you or even he would have thought. That's just a few reasons. It wouldn't necessarily be any reason to be concerned.
Actually Italian or merely from Italy, i.e. family were etrhnic Greeks or Yugoslavs (umbrella term to cover the various ethnicities therein) and married within their own kind before moving abroad?
@@llewballantine6678 Your comment (and the video's content) just got me thinking one reason might be that none of the reference groups contain all of his Italian DNA to be able to say it is Italian. Maybe even defendant that shares the students of his DNA that were inherited are in people that married people from outside of the region and so no one is allowed to be in the reference group, but it is an actual Italian segment of DNA. Maybe there are people out there but they've just not tested yet (though with so much Italian emigration, large families, people in the US or South America curious about where they are from our wanting to do genealogical research I would think this is unlikely. I'm curious now how either you sign up to be in a reference group or get put in one. Surely people in these groups need to have highly verified family trees before the DNA segments can be classified as from a certain area?
My paternal line is Czech. Yet a majority of paternal matches on MyHeritage are Swedish. My maternal line is German and England with 1% Icelandic. Are all those false matches? Love your videos.
I just found a new match that the ethnicity was greyed out. So I wasn't sure if the results didn't completely post. Or maybe she somehow blocked the results, never seen this before.
I will disagree with this assertion that matching segments do not share ethnicity. I have compared my matches that have specifically known ethnicities shared with my family, and without fail their chromosome paint chart looks almost perfectly like my own in the given segments. Only if a match is of a low Q value is there any variance, and even then if triangulation is confirmed there is a least a hint of the ethnicity still there.
Just got another Geiszler DNA cousin using Bouchey from the French Bouchere for Geiszler. This match shares a large percentage of ethnicity with me from Scotland where my Boucher ancestors lived after France.
Putting aside false matches, North Sea to Bangladesh is also gonna have a broad swath of P-I-E peoples; I wonder if the ethnicity match was just an old patrilineal marker akin to a Yamnaya ancestor who went to both locations of North Sea and North India?
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics The legacy of the Proto-Indo-European migrations can also be seen in the autosomal ancestry of South Asians, Central Asians and Europeans (in the form of Steppe admixture). Could the coincidental inheritance of a well-preserved sequence from a common Yamnaya ancestor also explain such a match?
My MyHeritage DNA results have some genetic groups as well as ethnicity. English was one of my genetic groups, since the first wave of my maternal immigrant ancestors were born in England, but emigrated to America in the 1630s.
I'm new to your channel, so I don't know if you have answered this question before. Upon trying to find out who was my paternal grandfather is this question arose. Is it possible if you have two brothers that either one could be my grandfather? Thank you so much, it's been on my mind.
I'm assuming you mean that you have two candidates, two brothers as DNA matches (or the matches are descendants from 2 brothers) that could be your biological grandfather? I would usually say that the one that is your actual grandfather you will share more DNA with, if you Google DNA painter you get a nice page where you can see the ranges of cM for each relation and grandfather and great uncle will have different ranges. The problem you might have is that there will be overlap and how much DNA you have from each of your grandparents varies (you get 50% from each of your parents, but not 25% from each grandparent, it's just luck how much you get around the average, which you can see on the DNA Painter tool). I hope this made sense, but most of the time you should find the one with the higher amount of shared DNA with you that is your direct ancestor. That said the closer the match the more likely that is to be true, so if it is the actual grandfather and his brother that has tested that is going to be definitive, if the matches are their children then it's still likely you will match higher your grandfather's children than your great uncle's, but if say it is your grandfather's and great uncle's great great grandchildren then the likelihood that the one with the highest amount of shared DNA being through your grandfather becomes less likely and your probably need other evidence to prove which one is your grandfather definitively (I hope I've not lost you)!!!
For an unknown, yes two brothers could be indicated. However, if either of those brothers had descendants that had also tested you would be able to instantly determine which brother is your grandfather.
I think the actual reason for the confusion is the total subjective interpretation of what ethnicity is. It is in the eye of the beholder what that means and the opinions and viewpoints of the people making the delineation come into play..
That's only part of the problem. Other problems are covered in this playlist D NA Ethnicity Results: Are They Accurate? ruclips.net/p/PLcVx-GSCjcdlvwsLScE4NPKwGA-XUNhhM
You missed the most obvious explanation. If you have a match with, let’s say a fourth cousin, then you share a pair of Ggggrandparents. If only one pair of your matches Ggggrandparent came from your specific ethnicity group, then your match might not have inherited a measurable amount of that ethnicity, even though they inherited a segment from them.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics If you share 30cM with a match, you know you only share a pair of Gggrandparent or Ggggrandparent. You don’t have to know how you are related.
You've got me thinking with that last comment about some false matches using combinations of your mother's and father's chromosomes to create a match,. Recently I've found that a reasonable number of my matches that I have always thought were just through my grandpa (my maternal grandfather) I have more DNA with a large number of these matches (they are quite distant and quite often it is only 1 or 2cM, but more recently I have found some with as much as 10cM, for matches of 10-25cM). Could I be getting glad matches for these? I don't think I can because my grandpa matches them, many are 18cM+ which even though it's distant match is a reasonable segment of DNA. There are a few of my matches where all their shared matches fall into this group I've created (multiple lines I call it), but my grandpa doesn't have them as a match, which I'm guessing it's because they must fall just before the 8cM threshold. My grandpa is from Ulster, Ireland and the reason for me testing was to try and get to the bottom of my paternal grandmother's grandfather, who was from County Mayo (quite a way from Ulster) but let Ireland and came over to England during the late 19th Century. Now my thinking is that on his way across to Yorkshire some of the DNA from his wife (whose family may have been Irish but had been in Lancashire for a while) mixed with a distant cousin of my maternal grandfather and I have links to them through both my sides, I think that's the only explanation that makes sense because the timelines don't allow for any other possibility. In this case though I'm really trying to find two different matches and if for example I match 20cM to a person and my grandpa 18cM then assuming I got all the DNA passed down to me from my grandpa finding that extra 2cM I got from my dad's side is going to be near impossible. Could this be a partial false match? What is going on here? Is this common? For the 400 shared matches I have with my grandpa, 200 are like this, which seems very odd to me. What are your thoughts on this? If anyone has any thoughts let me know. I need help, this is driving me crazy trying to work out out!!! Is it even with trying to use this to find where the crossover might be occurring?
A difference of 1-2 cM between family matches is not something to be concerned about. This is easily explainable by different testing companies using different matched SNP positions to come up with different cM values.
QQQ. I took my DNA test on Ancestry. I clustered into 16 groups, according to my great great grandparents, using known 2nd cousins from 3 pairs of great grandparents (3 out of 4) and more distant cousins who had trees that I could find known connections to my tree (The 4th out of 4 great grandparent pair, (without a close cousin match) I have been able to divide into unknown paternal gg grandfather, and known paternal gg grandmother, and known maternal gg grandfather and grandmother, based on further cousins). I decided to list all of my DNA matches into a spreadsheet, down to 20cm, like you do in that auto-cluster tool. I was skeptical that it would help, but just going through the process highlighted something. (Two things I need to point out. My sister has tested and matches with everyone I match with. Each of my second cousins share 4 gg grandparents.) At 31cM (with 1 matching segment) I found something unusual. I found a match, (actually a cluster of matches) which matches with one of my 2nd cousins, but doesn't match with my sister, and doesn't match with any of the 4 clusters of gg grandparents behind that cousin. None of the people in the cluster seem to have a tree that matches anywhere near my tree. I take it I have stumbled upon a cluster of people who have developed a similar chain of DNA separately to our family, and aren't actually related to us? I hope all of that made sense. My profile is at Molesworth-181 on Wikitree.
It is highly doubtful that a group of people could develop a match with you without being related. Since you don't share DNA with all of your 3rd cousins and beyond, it is entirely possible that you inherited the matching segment for this group but your sister did not.
If a reference panel like, let’s say Nigeria, is full of mixed people who are 20% European. Would a Nigerian who is 20% European who takes the test just test as 100% Nigerian
This was interesting, thank you. I have basically three ethnicity groups England Wales and Ireland plus very small amount of European with a couple of ethnicity communities in Australua and the US coming from those, so ethnicity groups aren't much helpvto me for my unknown or outlier groups. I do have a question though. Can a child gave DNA matches that do not match either parent? As all their DNA is passed down from a patent, how can the parent not share that match?
In reality no, that would be impossible. However, since when DNA is analyzed, (without the parents DNA) it is unknown which of the two letters at each position belong to the mother and father respectively. So sometimes this gets jumbled and matches appear that aren't real. This is what is meant when someone is saying it is a false match.
I match people in Finland on MH supposedly but have no Finnish ancestry. One of the matches shows he is 100% Finnish and we share no ethnicities or communities at all.
I show up as being 26.54% Finnish (CRI Genetics) and have no finnish history in my genealogy, evaluating NPE possibilities. i do have ancestors from the Shetlands, and where pictish ancestry is strong its possible this might show up as Finnish as they are both Altaic languages. I am R1b for Ydna, and H4 for maternal Haplogroup.
@@jessikamoore5033is your family scots? i was having some ish talking to their AI, but they seemed to be saying that they believed the best fit for my haplogroup was H4 itself and they weren't necessarily trying/wanting to make that claim. the surname Moore, i have from genealogy on my mothers side of the family and it came up in the last year in another context. To make things even muddier my mother says Ancestry and 23 and /me give her as being mtDNA of H, but she is refusing to share raw data with me. My father refuses to test. and i have only one sibling, a brother who dislikes me (messy inheritance/will stuff looming). CRI did give specific segments on specific chromosomes for some of the more significant matches. Are your Moores related to Francis Moore early in NC? Obviously i need to retest for relatives, suggestions?
@@jessikamoore5033i should say no recent finnish ancestry -there is a person who was a Swedish soldier who absconded from the New Sweden colony, who may be Finnish, that dates from ca 1655 in the new world so to speak, i've been having a genealogical wrangle with people who say that cannot be who are unfamiliar with their history. I'm trying to track down Something about a Saami Berber tie (genetically) which does not seem to encompass H4. there is an Egyptian mummy Takabuti, daughter of Nespare, Priest of Amun, and his wife Taseniret who was slain in the sack of Thebes ca 66-4 BC (XXVth dynasty) id'd as from modern Libya(?) who, as of ca 2020, is supposed to be the only individual typed to H4 itself.... for whatever that is worth. She (apparently) held the title of God's-Wife-of-Amun....
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✅ Understanding Reference Populations 👉🏼 ruclips.net/video/ScZtHuU78n4/видео.html
This is an interesting question. There was/is a woman from Africa (I believe the Congo, if memory serves me correct) who took a DNA test and shared the video here on RUclips. A part of her genetic communities were in Brazil, and also in Japan. I believe her other two genetic communities was in North Africa, and the southern USA (Tennessee). She called the DNA company "A SCAM" (My Heritage). But, I felt not so fast. I wanted to see what common thread was causing this connection. She explained she never traveled to any of these places. I did some research and found one common connection: Portugal! During the age of colonial exploration, Portugal took slaves from Africa to Brazil, and there was also a Portuguese slave trade of Africans as far away as Japan. The genetic groups she was a part of encompasses the Congo; although, Portugal was more busy in Angola and Mozambique. The connection with North Africa was trickier to explain, but it's not easy to see that the British could've been responsible for taking some of her relatives to the southern regions of the USA (especially if they migrated in Africa whether before, or after colonial borders were new). She seemed to get defensive to my explanation, so I deleted my comment, and left her alone.
Communities aren't just from ancestors but where your distant cousins end up. For example my Irish grandpa has in his communities settlers in many parts of the US and Canada, but it's because some of the brothers of sisters of his direct ancestors emigrated there, so this woman just isn't understanding what the communities are.
That said I can sympathize with her thinking it is a scam because the DNA companies sell this finding out your ethnicity as though it is 100% accurate and can also be defined by the borders of modern countries, whereas is you actually look at these pages it often has a wide range for what that percentage it gives you can actually be, which sometimes can be as low as 0% (but this isn't made very clear because these companies don't want you to think it's not doing what you thought it was, that you've been mis-sold the product.
My grandpa, despite us having extensively researched his family tree, we have got most of his direct ancestors back to about 1800 (a few missing lines, but not many) and all were living in the province of Ulster, which if you don't know Ireland is in the North of the island part of it is Northern Ireland. We got his DNA tested for his 100th birthday for genealogy purposes not ethnicity, and we did expect a reasonable part of his DNA to have some Scottish in it (there has been a lot of mixing over the centuries), but his Ethnicity Estimate says he has one Irish parent (his mother) and one Scottish parent (well 96%).
Now I'm not saying this isn't true if you go far enough back you wouldn't find this, but to me either even with the reference populations mentioned there is no way of separating these regions neatly won't modern boundaries, in fact the some of the communities do overlap, which makes more sense. My grandpa would have to have nearly all his great grandparents on his father's side having Scottish heritage, he doesn't, maybe even his 2x great grandparent all but 1 being Scottish, again he doesn't.
We have found many of his great uncles or aunts did move to Scotland in the 1800s so I think this has seeded Irish DNA into some reference groups. Failing that I think they allow new people into the reference groups who they test and they come back 100% whatever group they are applying to be in, but if that reference group isn't 100% correct they might just be adding more people that aren't 100% (or very close to being that) in and just confirming an amazing corrupted group. It wouldn't take much for this to happen imo.
You may be asking me what has Scotland and Ireland got too do with Congo and Brazil/Japan? Well as you pointed out during the Age of Discovery many African slaves were taken over to Brazil, Brazil is one of the most diverse population on earth where people of different ethnicities have interbred. Having been to Brazil on a number of occasions there are large Asian communities as well and they too have intermarried with the anyway diverse population making it even more ethnically diverse!!! So I'm not sure, apart from Native South American, just like in the US, you can't have a Brazilian ethnic group, it will be a melting pot of European, African, and Asian, with probably some native ethnicity thrown in for your measure!!!
So it must be just a community, which isn't the ethnicity, but where some of her matches must be and they will have gotten there via slavery (the Asian is just probably a misreading from some Brazilian distant cousins else ancestry mixed with Asian immigrants along the way). I think this is just them not understanding what is being shown here, which is can understand because it isn't very clearly presented in these sites.
At least you gave logical accurate explanation. Too. bad they couldn't handle reality
@@mattpotter8725 I'm glad you mentioned that. Yes! Brazil has the largest Japanese population outside of Japan. I informed her that intermingling may have taken place during those Portuguese exploration voyages. As a matter of fact, during the 16th-17th centuries the ruling regime in Japan presented a much stronger Portugal with female slave comforters for their voyages (a sorta "comfort women" even back then). Portugal traveled with enslaved African men during those voyages whom also interbred with many of those Japanese slave women. Other European explorers also did this, and the Black/African Samurai warrior of Japan, "Yasuke" is believed by some Historians to have possibly come from Mozambique (a former Portuguese colony). He is said to have sailed with the Italian explorer 'Alessandro Valignano' (an Italian Jesuit). I sought to explain to this woman that her family of old likely was caught up in some of this, but she was more interested in rewriting what she wanted to believe, and refuted where I was going with this to the point where I gave up. LOL. I said to myself, "I'm only trying to help her figure some of this out". Then some continental Africans began siding with her in her comment's section, and began trying to lure me into arguing. Yet, with the resistance, I asked myself, "Do I really want to put myself through this?" She seemed to have an obsessive bend on trying to ridicule the results she got from My Heritage, and I lost interest in going back and forth with her, so I deleted my comments and moved on. I'm Black American (with 1 non-Black American genetic group), and this interaction kinda taught me to mind my own beeswax when it comes to the DNA results of certain other ethnicities. It's the first real time I really felt that way. I felt why bother?
Here's the deal with many people. I think many people truly believe just because a previous region where Europeans settled, or a particular Indo-European language is spoken makes that particular branch of Europeans the long term settlers. That's not always true. Spain was in Jamaica before Britain was in Jamaica. I know Jamaicans know this, but how many know it outside of Jamaica's history? Spain was in Haiti before France was in Haiti. Portugal reached Indonesia (and many other places in Asia) before The Netherlands reached Indonesia. My point? Maybe she felt just because she never heard of Portugal having any direct dealings with the Congo way back when (Belgium ruled the Congo), it just didn't happen, and I was creating a fanciful scenario just to prove my point. She didn't consider the political boundaries are an artificial construct that cut between tribal areas, and tribes via the Bantu migrations were on the move here and there, and even afterwards. Tribes on the Mozambique - South African border regions constantly moved back and forth in the 16th century. Portugal was active in that region. Portugal was seemingly even active in the Kenya region before England got involved. Fundamentally speaking, I sought to create a consideration for her to either enlighten her understanding of her family's elusive lineage, or figure a cause for her to launch her own research to extend this realm of possibilities pertaining to why she received the results she received. But, I decided not to stress myself out. It is what it is...
@@carolannsuniga3766 Thank you. That's appreciated.
@@doubleutee2100 People have often, and I think this happens in every country been told the version of history for political reasons, some parts correct, others wrongly, because we you say the Spanish and Portuguese were in the Caribbean before the British, and after they became British colonies they didn't want any knowledge of who was in charge probably so it was just airbrushed out of history, a little like the fact that the Dutch founded New York as New Amsterdam before the British got there and took it over. Both there and in the Caribbean you only have to look at some of the placenames to see this, the Bronx and Harlem in NYC, and Ireland like Jamaica and Antigua in the Caribbean.
As for your argument that you didn't want to get into, there's not much you can do, but I think at least some of this is due to anti colonial sentiment, which I can completely understand, but denying what you were explaining ever happened doesn't mean it didn't happen, and in the end it is they all are losing out by not understanding the complex history of their forebears, however horrific it was. I've seen some amazing churches in Brazil (and I'm not particularly religious), one in particular that stands out in my memory in Ouro Preto, Minas Gerais that was built by freed slaves that is just beautiful, the iconography, the gold leaf, the decoration, it's just breathtaking. The Congo probably is unique to other "countries" because of the horrific genocide that occurred there under the control basically of the Belgian King Leopold (I think that is right) who treated the territory as his own personal property and really horrific things went on there under his control. This just fed into their narrative, which I would do what you can to inform them, but in the end they have to be open to new parts of the history of their peoples. If they won't there not much you can do.
The fact is though that DNA doesn't lie, even if the analysis of it for these Ethnicity Estimates isn't 100% accurate. I mean MyHeritage says I have 1% Inuit in me, which is very, very unlikely, but looking at the range on this estimate will say in the email print that it could be between 0% and 2% maybe (but no one looks at the small print information, it's not presented very in your face, because the DNA companies really on hard facts to sell their product, which saddens me).
This is honestly a topic I never thought of. Being primarily European, with some Native American (which can also show up as Asian), Sub-Saharan African and North African DNA, I can’t think of too many people that I WOULDN’T share at least one ethnic group with! And I’ve definitely never noticed this in my matches.
I don't really know how prevalent it is, would like to know, but for someone like you, I would guess that you might never find a match that doesn't share an ethnic group with you.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics For me it's extremely prevalent, I am from Croatia and I have no Finnish ethnicity yet I match with "pure" Finns (98%+ Finnish & small% Inuit/Japan&Korea), Finland is my 4th highest country by number of matches, the first 3 being standard emigration targets for Croats (Germany/US/Sweden). These Finnish people have no shared ethnicity and I have 20+cM matches
Have a weird case of this on MyHeritage. Uploaded my test from 23andMe which had strong Scandinavian/Finnish representation.
Got back 0% Scandinavian/Finnish ethnicity and one genetic group on the Swedish-Finnish border. However, the majority of my 11,000 MyHeritage DNA matches are Scandinavian/Finnish and their trees validate that my family lines have been there for centuries. Some of them match the genetic group or surprisingly my British ethnicity but the vast majority don’t share an ethnicity with me as they’re almost 100% Scandinavian or Finnish.
It doesn’t really affect my research and the matches actually broke down brick walls so it was still worth it but it’s just funny that MyHeritage didn’t identify the main ethnicities I match with on their site while 23andMe did.
🤔 that's interesting, because I would like to retest again. I tested thru Family Tree first, and then Ancestry and got a lil different results in DNA and actually DNA that I didn't know I had. My dad's DNA had just 1% Scotland, and Norway, 2% Jewish and 4 areas of Africa in 2%. My cousin had 3 areas of Africa similar to my dad's areas but he showed Finnish 1%, Scotland 1%, Ireland 1%, and Sardinia 1%. A first cousin I didn't know about who is my cousins half brother actually has more Norway, and some indigenous because of my uncle ( his biological father), my dad, my cousin, and myself. He sent us photos of his children. His daughter looks a lot like my dad's mom from the 1930's wow... And I started testing in 2021 because I was told we had Jewish in my mom's grandparents parents, and German. I didn't show German DNA, and neither did my mom's niece or her daughter. We all three showed England DNA wow....
I have heard examples similar to this with all companies. It is confirmation that ethnicity estimates are still in their infancy.
Glad to find your channel. I am sure going to check out your content to see if you have any videos on endogamy lines. I have over 170,000 matches on Ancestry and 18,000 on MyHeritage. I have a majority of Acadian ancestors
I never new what a centimorgan was, when I saw my first cousin for the first time in my DNA match list in Family Tree I was surprised. We shared very high centimorgan, I just didn't understand what that was. But I would look at his profile picture with his wife and wonder. I wondered a whole year and 5 months until I finally emailed his wife. I found out he had started searching for his biological dad( my uncle) since 2018 😮 My uncle never knew about him, and he passed away 25yrs ago. I was so excited. I had moved from fear to excitement. We have shared photos, and my cousin and his wife just might come to our area andmeet us. 🤗😔🙏
Awesome success story.
Thank you for this amazing video - I got my results couple of days ago and one thing that strikes me is the amount of DNA matches that I have with some ppl that I share 0% ethnicity with but what I have noticed is that one thing is in common for these matches that doesn’t match with me had one ethnicity in common Scottish and English where I am 94% North African 3% Senegal 2% Arabian pensuila 1% Nigeria
Thanks I had that exact question to Ancestry's three years ago. They did not respond correctly and have been dissatisfied since. That being said I still don't understand why this type of match is being shown to me. Besides adding confusion and second guessing the results it provides absolutely no information let alone useful information.
In a nutshell, as long as it is not a false match ( which is more than likely the case for small segment matches), then they show you the match because you match DNA. Ethnicity results are a lot more fuzzy/inaccurate/guesstimate so that is one of the last places I would look.
Interesting. I get some obvious false matches. LIke really small centimorgans. Some matches with really small centimorgans, however, aren't false matches and can be proven ancestrally. I found a provable 4th cousin in Australia with whom I share a paltry 8 cM.
Some of my MyHeritage matches don't match either of my parents, though weirdly they do on Geneanet using the same kit. But sometimes the children, parents, and 1st cousins of those parentally unmatched matches do match my parents.
I've got matches in Scandinavian countries which are ancestrally (as of the past 300-400 years) undetermined thus far. But I know my Scottish history, and realise that Scottish soldiers fought as mercenaries for the Kingdom of Sweden in the 17th century. One such soldier is commemorated in a cathedral in Finland. This might explain why I get matches in some Baltic states and Russia where the Swedish army was fighting.
Moreover, some of those Scandinavian matches might be accounted because for several centuries Scotland's northern isles (Shetland and Orkney) had been leased to the Kingdom of Norway, and therefore would have incurred much Norwegian and Danish settlement. My father gets about 16 matches on the Faroe Islands, and on MyTrueAncestry shares a lot of DNA with one of the samples from the Faroes, e.g. the Sandoy dig.
I could go on and on, but you get the picture. Anyway, good video, as per usual.
I've just found an 8th cousin 1x removed that shares 18cM with me. I'm a bit flabbergasted about this!!!
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Thanks for another interesting video. I haven't noticed this issue in my match lists yet. But with over 71,000 matches on Ancestry alone (was well over 100,000 before The Great Culling!), I may never find them.
Have a blessed evening. :)
It would definitely happen at the lower cM level so unless you are looking at 30,000-70,000 you may not easily find them.
I was the one who asked this. Thank you! I forgot to mention this but I did have a match who like these European matches did not share an ethnicity with me. Eventually I was given a region that he had and now we match in a region. So it might be possible that I could receive a European region in the future.
Thanks for the great question Vortex. Viewers like you come up with some of the best topics for videos.
My great great grandad is fully italian but I haven’t inherited any italian according to ancestry dna is this normal?
From a second great grandparent, you'd be expecting around an average 6.25% but there's a few reasons why it could end up not being reflected in your results. You could simply have just not inherited any of it, it could be being picked up as another, similar group, your second great grandfather could have been more of a mix than you or even he would have thought. That's just a few reasons. It wouldn't necessarily be any reason to be concerned.
Actually Italian or merely from Italy, i.e. family were etrhnic Greeks or Yugoslavs (umbrella term to cover the various ethnicities therein) and married within their own kind before moving abroad?
@@llewballantine6678 Your comment (and the video's content) just got me thinking one reason might be that none of the reference groups contain all of his Italian DNA to be able to say it is Italian. Maybe even defendant that shares the students of his DNA that were inherited are in people that married people from outside of the region and so no one is allowed to be in the reference group, but it is an actual Italian segment of DNA. Maybe there are people out there but they've just not tested yet (though with so much Italian emigration, large families, people in the US or South America curious about where they are from our wanting to do genealogical research I would think this is unlikely. I'm curious now how either you sign up to be in a reference group or get put in one. Surely people in these groups need to have highly verified family trees before the DNA segments can be classified as from a certain area?
There are various explanations for this, but also keep in mind that ethnicity estimates are just that, estimates.
I understood your explanation. Thank you. Great job.
Thanks, be sure to watch some of the other videos
My paternal line is Czech. Yet a majority of paternal matches on MyHeritage are Swedish. My maternal line is German and England with 1% Icelandic. Are all those false matches? Love your videos.
I just found a new match that the ethnicity was greyed out. So I wasn't sure if the results didn't completely post. Or maybe she somehow blocked the results, never seen this before.
I have three such matches, but logged them as most likely ethnicity for now
That's a good idea.
I will disagree with this assertion that matching segments do not share ethnicity. I have compared my matches that have specifically known ethnicities shared with my family, and without fail their chromosome paint chart looks almost perfectly like my own in the given segments. Only if a match is of a low Q value is there any variance, and even then if triangulation is confirmed there is a least a hint of the ethnicity still there.
Just got another Geiszler DNA cousin using Bouchey from the French Bouchere for Geiszler. This match shares a large percentage of ethnicity with me from Scotland where my Boucher ancestors lived after France.
With Geiszler matches you may be related to Devon (or maybe not).
Putting aside false matches, North Sea to Bangladesh is also gonna have a broad swath of P-I-E peoples; I wonder if the ethnicity match was just an old patrilineal marker akin to a Yamnaya ancestor who went to both locations of North Sea and North India?
Ethnicity estimates don't use Y DNA or mtDNA so it would have to be something that was well mixed into the population.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics A-ha, thank you! I may now correct my assumptions
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics The legacy of the Proto-Indo-European migrations can also be seen in the autosomal ancestry of South Asians, Central Asians and Europeans (in the form of Steppe admixture). Could the coincidental inheritance of a well-preserved sequence from a common Yamnaya ancestor also explain such a match?
My MyHeritage DNA results have some genetic groups as well as ethnicity. English was one of my genetic groups, since the first wave of my maternal immigrant ancestors were born in England, but emigrated to America in the 1630s.
Yes, MyHeritage does have genetic groups as part of their ethnicity results.
I'm new to your channel, so I don't know if you have answered this question before. Upon trying to find out who was my paternal grandfather is this question arose. Is it possible if you have two brothers that either one could be my grandfather? Thank you so much, it's been on my mind.
I'm assuming you mean that you have two candidates, two brothers as DNA matches (or the matches are descendants from 2 brothers) that could be your biological grandfather? I would usually say that the one that is your actual grandfather you will share more DNA with, if you Google DNA painter you get a nice page where you can see the ranges of cM for each relation and grandfather and great uncle will have different ranges. The problem you might have is that there will be overlap and how much DNA you have from each of your grandparents varies (you get 50% from each of your parents, but not 25% from each grandparent, it's just luck how much you get around the average, which you can see on the DNA Painter tool).
I hope this made sense, but most of the time you should find the one with the higher amount of shared DNA with you that is your direct ancestor. That said the closer the match the more likely that is to be true, so if it is the actual grandfather and his brother that has tested that is going to be definitive, if the matches are their children then it's still likely you will match higher your grandfather's children than your great uncle's, but if say it is your grandfather's and great uncle's great great grandchildren then the likelihood that the one with the highest amount of shared DNA being through your grandfather becomes less likely and your probably need other evidence to prove which one is your grandfather definitively (I hope I've not lost you)!!!
@@mattpotter8725 Yes, this helps quite a bit. Thank you so much.
For an unknown, yes two brothers could be indicated. However, if either of those brothers had descendants that had also tested you would be able to instantly determine which brother is your grandfather.
I think the actual reason for the confusion is the total subjective interpretation of what ethnicity is. It is in the eye of the beholder what that means and the opinions and viewpoints of the people making the delineation come into play..
That's only part of the problem. Other problems are covered in this playlist D
NA Ethnicity Results: Are They Accurate? ruclips.net/p/PLcVx-GSCjcdlvwsLScE4NPKwGA-XUNhhM
You missed the most obvious explanation. If you have a match with, let’s say a fourth cousin, then you share a pair of Ggggrandparents. If only one pair of your matches Ggggrandparent came from your specific ethnicity group, then your match might not have inherited a measurable amount of that ethnicity, even though they inherited a segment from them.
You're right, I missed that one. I was probably thinking more for matches that you don't know how they relate.
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics If you share 30cM with a match, you know you only share a pair of Gggrandparent or Ggggrandparent. You don’t have to know how you are related.
You've got me thinking with that last comment about some false matches using combinations of your mother's and father's chromosomes to create a match,. Recently I've found that a reasonable number of my matches that I have always thought were just through my grandpa (my maternal grandfather) I have more DNA with a large number of these matches (they are quite distant and quite often it is only 1 or 2cM, but more recently I have found some with as much as 10cM, for matches of 10-25cM). Could I be getting glad matches for these? I don't think I can because my grandpa matches them, many are 18cM+ which even though it's distant match is a reasonable segment of DNA.
There are a few of my matches where all their shared matches fall into this group I've created (multiple lines I call it), but my grandpa doesn't have them as a match, which I'm guessing it's because they must fall just before the 8cM threshold. My grandpa is from Ulster, Ireland and the reason for me testing was to try and get to the bottom of my paternal grandmother's grandfather, who was from County Mayo (quite a way from Ulster) but let Ireland and came over to England during the late 19th Century. Now my thinking is that on his way across to Yorkshire some of the DNA from his wife (whose family may have been Irish but had been in Lancashire for a while) mixed with a distant cousin of my maternal grandfather and I have links to them through both my sides,
I think that's the only explanation that makes sense because the timelines don't allow for any other possibility. In this case though I'm really trying to find two different matches and if for example I match 20cM to a person and my grandpa 18cM then assuming I got all the DNA passed down to me from my grandpa finding that extra 2cM I got from my dad's side is going to be near impossible. Could this be a partial false match? What is going on here? Is this common? For the 400 shared matches I have with my grandpa, 200 are like this, which seems very odd to me.
What are your thoughts on this? If anyone has any thoughts let me know. I need help, this is driving me crazy trying to work out out!!! Is it even with trying to use this to find where the crossover might be occurring?
A difference of 1-2 cM between family matches is not something to be concerned about. This is easily explainable by different testing companies using different matched SNP positions to come up with different cM values.
QQQ. I took my DNA test on Ancestry. I clustered into 16 groups, according to my great great grandparents, using known 2nd cousins from 3 pairs of great grandparents (3 out of 4) and more distant cousins who had trees that I could find known connections to my tree (The 4th out of 4 great grandparent pair, (without a close cousin match) I have been able to divide into unknown paternal gg grandfather, and known paternal gg grandmother, and known maternal gg grandfather and grandmother, based on further cousins). I decided to list all of my DNA matches into a spreadsheet, down to 20cm, like you do in that auto-cluster tool. I was skeptical that it would help, but just going through the process highlighted something. (Two things I need to point out. My sister has tested and matches with everyone I match with. Each of my second cousins share 4 gg grandparents.) At 31cM (with 1 matching segment) I found something unusual. I found a match, (actually a cluster of matches) which matches with one of my 2nd cousins, but doesn't match with my sister, and doesn't match with any of the 4 clusters of gg grandparents behind that cousin. None of the people in the cluster seem to have a tree that matches anywhere near my tree. I take it I have stumbled upon a cluster of people who have developed a similar chain of DNA separately to our family, and aren't actually related to us? I hope all of that made sense. My profile is at Molesworth-181 on Wikitree.
It is highly doubtful that a group of people could develop a match with you without being related. Since you don't share DNA with all of your 3rd cousins and beyond, it is entirely possible that you inherited the matching segment for this group but your sister did not.
If a reference panel like, let’s say Nigeria, is full of mixed people who are 20% European. Would a Nigerian who is 20% European who takes the test just test as 100% Nigerian
This was interesting, thank you. I have basically three ethnicity groups England Wales and Ireland plus very small amount of European with a couple of ethnicity communities in Australua and the US coming from those, so ethnicity groups aren't much helpvto me for my unknown or outlier groups. I do have a question though. Can a child gave DNA matches that do not match either parent? As all their DNA is passed down from a patent, how can the parent not share that match?
In reality no, that would be impossible. However, since when DNA is analyzed, (without the parents DNA) it is unknown which of the two letters at each position belong to the mother and father respectively. So sometimes this gets jumbled and matches appear that aren't real. This is what is meant when someone is saying it is a false match.
I match people in Finland on MH supposedly but have no Finnish ancestry. One of the matches shows he is 100% Finnish and we share no ethnicities or communities at all.
I show up as being 26.54% Finnish (CRI Genetics) and have no finnish history in my genealogy, evaluating NPE possibilities. i do have ancestors from the Shetlands, and where pictish ancestry is strong its possible this might show up as Finnish as they are both Altaic languages. I am R1b for Ydna, and H4 for maternal Haplogroup.
@rayp-w5930 my mtdna is U4b1a1. My predicted ydna based on using my male cousin's ydna on estimators is RL-21. Both my parents are deceased.
@@jessikamoore5033is your family scots? i was having some ish talking to their AI, but they seemed to be saying that they believed the best fit for my haplogroup was H4 itself and they weren't necessarily trying/wanting to make that claim. the surname Moore, i have from genealogy on my mothers side of the family and it came up in the last year in another context. To make things even muddier my mother says Ancestry and 23 and /me give her as being mtDNA of H, but she is refusing to share raw data with me. My father refuses to test. and i have only one sibling, a brother who dislikes me (messy inheritance/will stuff looming). CRI did give specific segments on specific chromosomes for some of the more significant matches. Are your Moores related to Francis Moore early in NC? Obviously i need to retest for relatives, suggestions?
@@jessikamoore5033i should say no recent finnish ancestry -there is a person who was a Swedish soldier who absconded from the New Sweden colony, who may be Finnish, that dates from ca 1655 in the new world so to speak, i've been having a genealogical wrangle with people who say that cannot be who are unfamiliar with their history. I'm trying to track down Something about a Saami Berber tie (genetically) which does not seem to encompass H4. there is an Egyptian mummy Takabuti, daughter of Nespare, Priest of Amun, and his wife Taseniret who was slain in the sack of Thebes ca 66-4 BC (XXVth dynasty) id'd as from modern Libya(?) who, as of ca 2020, is supposed to be the only individual typed to H4 itself.... for whatever that is worth. She (apparently) held the title of God's-Wife-of-Amun....
@rayp-w5930 Moore is my married name. I am a Witt. I do have Scottish ancestry among others.
Oh wow, I showed Hungary in Family Tree
Awesome!
23centimorgans a genuine match?
It depends. Can you triangulate it with other DNA mathces in that same spot?
@@FamilyHistoryFanatics most of the dna matches that are shared matches with the 23cm match are 4th cousins.
🎉 promo sm
huh?