The problem with the "1" running express from 96th to 137th would be that it's actually the most densely populated and trafficked section of the route, so a large number of people would still be stuck waiting for a local!
Yeah you would've change track layouts from 96th to 157th street with an additional track making it 2 by 2 with some island platforms(including between dyckman street to van courtlandt park 242nd street layouts).
@@rahmel2009 I'm thinking of people who actually *live* in the particular area. The UWS was once found to be the most densely populated area, not only in Manhattan, but in all of the city. Residents rely on the "1" to get them up and downtown. (Once, during a weekend service disruption, a shuttle bus service replaced the train from 96th to 137th; on that crowded stretch of Broadway, it added forty-five minutes to what would ordinarily have been a half-hour trip!)
You would need to change the track layout between 96th street to 157th street and between dyckman street to Van cortandlt park 242nd Street so that way 1 trains can go express from 96th street to 137th street city college and to 157th street then 1 trains will go local until 191st street then go express again from 191st street to marble hill 225th street then 1 trains will go local in the bronx
It's your favorite retired TA motorman here. Here's my thoughts. The upper end of the 1 line and the Bronx part of the 4 have too many riders that get on and off at too many places to make express service practical. In your previous video, that's why the skip stop 1/9 was a failure. There was a proposal to connect the Lenox line to the Jerome line via the old 9th Avenue el connection from 145th Street station (148th Street did not open up until 1968.). Between the third rail issues, and the 6 car long stations at both Sedgwick and Anderson-Jerome Avenue stations, that never materialized. I'd leave the 4 and 5 connection at 149th Street Grand Concourse as it is. This way, in an emergency, you can send a 4 train to the lower level and terminate it there. (I've done that move myself.) What makes Rogers Junction (aka Nostrand Junction) extremely difficult is that the Eastern Parkway line was built as a four track, two level stacked arrangement with local tracks on top of each other, and express tracks on top of each other. It was the prototype for IND construction along Central Park West. Had the Eastern Parkway line been built as a conventional 4 track line, you wouldn't have those problems. However, we're stuck with it the way it is. As far as extending the 7 further into Queens, you'd make crowding problems on the line worse. As far as 74th Street is concerned, it predated the IND, and the transfer, by a couple of decades. IMHO, Fisk Interlocking should be restored between 61st and 69th Streets. The track arrangement there was identical to that north of 177th Street Parkchester on the 6. It'll allow for much greater flexibility for rerouting and turning trains. A similar interlocking should be installed north of Junction Blvd. There was a proposal to connect the former LIRR Whitestone Branch to today's 7 near Willets Point Blvd. The expense of grade crossing eliminations and the Great Depression ended that idea. I'm surprised you didn't mention that the 5 should be an all day express on the West Farms line (the section between E. 180th Street and 149th Street Grand Concourse on the 2 and 5).
The 5 train has been my home line since 2004 and an all day express would be great if there was 4 tracks instead of 3. What I wish is that they get rid of all those turns north of 174th street. Trains go very slow between 174 and 180. The local 2 train can sometimes overtake the 5 express train in this area.
@@daneshj4013 Downtown D train is express during weekday morning rush hour. Uptown D train is express during weekday evening rush hour. 161 Street-Yankee Stadium is a local stop, for those who don't know.
The #4 train line, the separation of the tracks is actually the old 9th Ave El. The 4 would go to of course Yankee Stadium, but that right turn away and the separation was the trains to the Polo Grounds and the 9th Ave El. I just learned about it a couple of months ago, The courtyard near Jerome Ave across from the new Yankee Stadium between and above that apartment building was the last stop in the Bronx on that El, before crossing over the Harlem River. So it's not below River Ave., it's lowering itself to get into Manhattan and Sugar Hill/Polo Grounds.
@@leecornwell1062 not sure if it's possible, they have to do some form of topography to make sure they can do it., plus they need to add an escalator or elevator to get into the ground, not enough room on that intersection at E. 167th street & River Ave.
They definitely should extend the 3 train to the Bronx via old 9th avenue line merging onto the Jerome Ave number 4 line making the 3 and 4 operating together alongside each other all the way to Woodlawn
The IRT (numbered trains) is the oldest; the BMT isn't a copy; it was an independent, private system serving Brooklyn and Manhattan; the IND was city built! The city merged them around 1940. Wikipedia has a decent history of our transit system!
8:03 No can do. There is a parking structure right next to the stadium that's in the path of your proposed detour. You would have to go all the way across the street and build above the skate park, but the the stub structure that connected the Polo Grounds Shuttle to the 4 train is back the other way at the new stadium.
The oldest continuously running line in the system dates back to 1867. It was the forerunner of what is today known as The West End Line, currently served by the "D" train.
A standard online interface for metro card management would also be appreciated. At least give us the option to check balance and add fare, through a standard browser.
One part of the saga that seems to never get brought up, it was originally 3 separate companies, that's the reason there are Stations where lines cross that have different names based on which route you're on, they never dealt with it after the MTA took over all 3.
I've always thought the N/W should be extended to LGA airport and maybe beyond. I know that's beyond the scope of your videos, but just expressing a thought that would greatly improve the experience of many New Yorkers. Regarding the #7 expansion, my opinion is that they should bring it around and connect it to the A/C/E and L at 8th Avenue for another transfer point.
That’s not needed, though an extension into NJ, whenever the region gets its shit together, would be in play. After all, it wouldn’t be the first time a metro subway traversed multiple states (DC Metro also services Virginia and Maryland too).
@@TheRailLeaguer I'm not opposed to the idea of getting service to NJ. However, I wonder why you feel that subway service to LaGuardia airport isn't needed. I'm guessing you don't use that airport very often, and it's one of the few airports in the world that doesn't have a subway line serving it (in a city that otherwise has subway service, of course). And the AirTrain from LGA out to the eastern end of Queens to connect to LIRR is practically useless to anyone in Manhattan or Brooklyn trying to get to LGA by train--they're going miles out of the way.
@@ajs11201 I’m not talking about the LaGuardia Extension. That is definitely needed. Sure beats that stupid AirTrain. What I was referring to was swinging the 7 train back to 14th Street/8th Avenue to connect to the A, C, and E. Me personally, I think that extending the L train up 10th Avenue, intersecting with the 7 train would do a better job.
@@TheRailLeaguer Bringing the 7 down to 14th Street or extending the L up to 10th Avenue are really two sides of the same coin--and I'd be in strong support of either. From 10th Avenue, either the 7 or the L could continue on to New Jersey.... Interesting concepts.
@@ajs11201 The 7 and L would both go to NJ in the plans I have. For the 7 train, the plan would not travel to 14th but rather leave Manhattan once it reaches 23rd Street. It would then follow the plan that was put out in a video by the Meadowlands Chamber of Commerce and have it terminate at Secacus Junction. Meanwhile, my L train plan has this route come up 10th Avenue, making stops in more growing areas of the West Side until 72nd Street, where it would then continue up Amsterdam Avenue and 79th Street, cross under the Hudson, and then operate through Guttenberg NJ until it reaches the Meadowlands Sports complex. After that it would continue into Rutherford to meet with the Rutherford station on the New Jersey Transit Main Line. As both alignments would feature stops serving the local communities, a substantial number of bus riders would transfer to these new lines to reach Midtown, alleviating the need to go all the way into the Port Authority Bus Terminal (some buses can terminate at Secacus, Meadowlands, or at Rutherford). With a reduction of bus traffic through the Lincoln Tunnel and into the PA Bus Terminal, the PA Bus Terminal would downsize its operations, consolidating its operations into a smaller number of gates, which should reduce some congestion over there. Meadowlands riders can also have a good alternative to the NJT trains, increasing capacity to/from the stadium as well.
A good idea would be if the 3 goes from 135st or 145st to 149st grand concourse and they built a new track so that they can enter the station with the 4 platform instead of the 2 and 5 platform, then the 3 would go over the Jermone Ave line to burnside and then get its own last 6 stops, if that happens the 3 and 4 will definitely be sharing trains like the 2 and 5. One last thing I think the 4 should make local stops in nostrand and Kingston and go to new lots all the time with the 3.
The #7 extension into NJ was proposed due to the former Giants, now Met Life, Stadium needing service from NYC for Giants/Jets fans. NJ Transit sort of solved that with that spur they built onto the stadiums grounds.
The first time I remember hearing of it was right after the ARC project to increase capacity to Penn Station from NJ was axed, and then it faded once the Gateway plan came along. The 7 extension was going to run to Secaucus (not-really-a-)Junction(-more-of-a-transfer), not to the stadium, so you would still have had to use the shuttle train that runs between Secaucus and the Meadowlands.
The Els began at South Ferry. The 6th Ave El merged with the 9th Ave. Line near Columbus Circle. At 110 the Line curved to 8th Ave (the "Suicide Curve") and until 1916 ended at the Pölö Grounds at 155th St. Then the line was extended to the Bronx using the Putnam Bridge, previosly used by the Putnam Division of New York Central, which then ended at Sedgwick/Jerome Aves. The El closed in 1940 but the section from the Polo Grounds to the Bronx was maintained as a shuttle until 1958 , a year after the Giants left for San Francisco. At that time the bridge was demolished.
@@the-renegade They just discourage riders in general. However, more would ride if the Jamaica Avenue elevated (the section actually along Jamaica Avenue going to Jamaica Center) were to be connected to the Fulton Street Line, which in turn would be connected to the Broadway Line. This would allow for C trains to serve Lefferts Blvd via the express tracks and double Fulton Street service overall. Could attract some riders from the 2, 3, 4, and 5 as well.
That would require MULTIPLE millions of dollars if they could actually do it They would have to buy all the property involved, because it's above ground, if it was underground, they wouldn't
@@richietattersall2122 it's an el, so they have to worry more about the approval of nearby residents. It's not like they're building this in your backyard. Also, a few million dollars is a very generous expectation.
@@TheRailLeaguer the MTA wanted to eliminate the S-Curve at Crescent Street since the late 1950s and have the Jamaica straightened out from Broadway Junction to 168 Street, add a middle track so the QJ could run express down Jamaica Avenue. Crescent, Woodhaven, and Queens Blvd would have been converted express stops.
I am not a fan of the design of Hudson Yards station. They take the 7 all the way out to 11th Avenue, build a massive mezzanine only to then give it just a single entrance with escalators taking you halfway back to 10th Avenue. They should have an entrance on the other side facing north to be convenient for the ferries to Weehawken at Pier 79.
The IRT trains are the numbered lines. All other lines are designated by letters. This is the clearest way of identifying which trains are IRT to those unfamiliar with the system!
I think that the D being extended to Co Op City would be so good to do. I live alkng that line and it would be faster travel to the mall than taking the bus
Hold up, I live in co op and I didn’t know ppl who live on the d line come all the way to bay plaza?! Ain’t there other places to shop like on Fordham? Why do ppl come all the wya to bay plaza?
I remember when my grandma lived there. If we took the subway into the city, we needed to take a bus to the subway. The New York Bus Service offered a one seat ride. The easiest rail service expansion to the Co op City area would've been to plaster a train station onto the Amtrak/Metro North line running past it.
@@marshmelloesv2892 Let the Pelham 6 line be extended to co op city mall barto Bronx it's much closer and leave the B D trains alone and fucus on the Pelham line to co op city mall barto Bronx. You have e remember that the metro North is gonna have four new stations in the Bronx Hunts point moriss avenue parkchester and co op city.
The station @Sedgwick still exists, but is currently being filled in completely due to i87 construction. Only the section of the station that connected to the former Putnam Division station outdoors will remain. Anderson/Jerome Avenue station still exists on the roof of a now vacant business on the corner of 162nd and Jerome Avenue. Prior to 2009, the trackway pointed towards Jerome avenue on the south sidewalk (?) of 162nd street. This section of 162 street no longer exists due to the new stadium and the trackways now point to one of Yankee Stadiums gates.
The Putnam railroad could definitely happen again to connect to the 3 trains on Sedgwick Ave. Have the Putnam railroad line go up to Brewster North right alongside the Putnam trailer
The Putnam railroad could definitely happen again to connect to the 3 trains on Sedgwick Ave. Have the Putnam railroad line go up to Brewster North right alongside the Putnam trailer
The Putnam railroad could definitely happen again to connect to the 3 trains on Sedgwick Ave. Have the Putnam railroad line go up to Brewster North right alongside the Putnam trailer
For Rogers Junction, we could deinterline by installing two new switches and have all 2 and 3 trains to Flatbush, all 4 trains make the local stops to New Lots, and have 5 trains express to Utica Avenue. For Mott, reconstruct the connection between the White Plains Road Line and Jerome Avenue Line so that 5 trains merges with the 2 train between 149th Street-Grand Concourse and 3rd Avenue-149th Street (in other words, 5 trains bypass the 149th Street-Grand Concourse station), thus increasing speeds. Both of these should improve service.
We need more 2 train service in the Bronx. I honestly would prefer the 2 and 3 switching Northern terminals. They are more 3 trains arriving than the 2. Also, during rush hour the 2/5 slow down drastically at Jackson Avenue-149th concourse.. The 2 also slows down right before 135th too for the 3 can come in.
@@ariesmichaelsayan4013 Much of this is due to the grade crossing an 135th and the slow speeds at 149th. Some new construction would be able to fix both of them, and combined with deinterlining and improving Rogers Junction, you would see 15 trains per hour on both the 2 and 3 trains, enough for both northern ends.
From my perspective, extend the IRT Nostrand Avenue line, Utica Avenue Subway, and fix the Franklin Avenue bottleneck. All of the other issues seemed to be pure foam.
Original plans for the Nostrand avenue line was supposed to go to Emmons Avenue but I think from my perspective if the Nostrand Avenue line either stops at Avenue u or Voorhees Avenue it'll have enough storage and space so the Rogers junction bottleneck will become few and far between.
@@christopherglover3829 The Rogers Junction in it's current form and service pattern will still be a bottleneck regardless of any extension. That's why extensions of any subway line on the Brooklyn IRT would be impractical. Fix the bottlenecks first and you have extra train capacity for the subway extensions
I made a fictional extension of the 6 and 7 lines (in my head). 6 and 7 lines are extending into Brooklyn as the Flatbush Ave EXP/LCL lines. 6 to Kings Plaza - Avenue U as the Flatbush Avenue EXP and the 7 line extended to Spring Creek-Gateway Mall as the Flatbush Ave LCL turns left at the “Kings Hwy - Flatlands Avenue Station” then continues under Flatlands Avenue to Spring Creek-Gateway Mall. There’s a little flaw in my fictional lines as 6 and 7 lines will have to pass under or over or around already crowded areas for example Downtown Manhattan where it’ll have connections at Fulton Street, Wall Street, continue via the Gold street tunnel under Tillary Street where it’s first EXP station is in Brooklyn and head down along Flatbush Avenue where that avenue is already crowded with B,D,N,Q,R,2,3,4, and 5 tracks lol. There will be a use for the lower level of Nevins street and Possibly rebuilding the Myrtle Avenue station but for the IRT Flatbush line. There is another idea I have implementing 2 extra lines and extending one line to the north from the BMT Nassau Line.
The extension of the #6 line to CO-OP City was proposed since the late 60's when they started building that complex and even a "people mover" monorail was proposed. It may not matter now that the LIRR/Metro North East Side Connect will have a railroad station there for trips into Penn Station.
The 1 train, the way to improve the route is upgrade the signals and everything else with CBTC. The express service will have to wait for the new trains to roll in on the 1 and the tech cars will have features including the diamond variant which will be helpful otherwise use the 9 as half of he supplement to provide local service while the 1 does express service between 96 and 137. The MTA plans to rebuild the marble hill station to create a island platform between the middle track and 242 street bound track which eliminate the old platform and rearrange the track to install the new platform and underpass and stairways but as the yard and layups they'll have to make adjustments. The 3 train, the link up to the Jerome avenue line would be nice but can't due to Yankee stadium so the connection may have to be done before 170 street but the 4 would have to run half the amount of trains on the middle track. Speaking of the middle track, it would have to be rebuild as a Passover between Fordham and before mosholu Pkwy and in addition, the Manhattan bound track would also have to be rebuild and create two Passover for yard access with Bedford park Blvd station to be rebuild into four track two island platform for the 3 to terminate and access the yard. The interlocking at 145 where the 2 and 3 split would also have to be rebuild with 145 street to be lengthen to accommodate ten cars. The curve that the 5 train use to link between two levels at 149 street, I don't think the 5 can bypass it due to the complex area where the college and the metro north is build so I think a new diverge track should be build before the converging track that the 6 use on the upper level then build it to ramp under the existing tracks and create a converging track while another converging interlocking can be build south of 138 street, these new tracks to be build as a bilevel with the southbound on the upper level and the northbound on the lower level with two platforms connecting to the existing 138 street and connect to the the curve towards the 2 while eliminating the curve connecting the 4 above 138 street. The curve at west farms on the 2 and 5 would require adjustments to the w Tremont Ave station for better accessibility and to give room to ease up on the curve to speed up service. The southbound platform at 14 street on the 4,5 and 6 would be lengthen to the modified interlocking east of the abandoned 18 street to eliminate the moving gap the same work that they on the northbound platform on the 6 at Bleeker. The Rogers avenue junction, the rebuild would require three new tunnels and modified the interlockings for more flexibility and eliminate choking points which has to be done in two phases which is shelling tough and the change that will be made is the 2 and 3 swapping position with the 4 and 5 at Franklin otherwise they'll just do the deinterlacing sending the 3 to Flatbush Ave along with the 2 and the 5 will take the Utica avenue branch with the 8 train proposal and the 4 will serve New lots. The 2,3 and 5 will utilize 12 tph, the 8 is 6 to 8 tph and the 4 will run 20 tph.
For Rogers Junction, no need to rip up the whole street and rebuild the thing when simply installing two new switches between the junction and Nostrand Avenue station would be even better and allow even more trains per hour. Specifically you can have this pattern: (2) (3) to Flatbush (4) to New Lots via local east of Franklin (5) to Utica Avenue via express As for 149th Street, 5 train ridership to that station is pretty low (even with the college), so it wouldn’t hurt to have the trains bypass it. How? A new connecting track between the Jerome Avenue Line and the White Plains Road Line would be built. Starting north of 138th Street, the two new tracks would branch off from the Jerome Avenue Line and then shift from the Grand Concourse to operate under Park Avenue until about 149th Street. From there it would turn east and merge with the White Plains Road Line tracks just before the 3rd Avenue-149th Street. This new connecting track with the smoother curves would provide speed train service between Manhattan and the Bronx, allowing faster 5 train service between East 180th Street and 125th Street and eventually into Midtown and Lower Manhattan. 2 train service would be more consistent and faster with 5 trains no longer stopping at 149th Street-Grand Concourse at all.
@@TheRailLeaguer Someday the elevated structures on the Jerome Avenue, White Plains Road and Pelham elevated lines all need to be replaced at some point since the MTA can't maintain them forever and that would require a lot of maintenance.
One suggestion. Before doing videos, when doing your research, do a visual reconnaissance of the areas. Example. Talking about extending the #3 to the old 9th Ave line that entered the Bronx. Sedgwick and Anderson Avenues are only 2 or 3 short blocks away from each other. It may have been one stop with exits on each end. Also the train would go slightly up Jerome Ave turn onto 165th or 166th street before joining the #4 line at River Ave and 167th St. The #6 extension would turn north and run parallel to I-95. I would extend it all the way to the far north end of Co-Op City
New Yankee Stadium took down the last vestige of the 9th Av El, though you can still see where the track went. They left the elevated trackway right up to where the new building is basically.
as for the Roger’s junction southbound, why that bottleneck exists is due to private property where southbound local service have to bear left and merge with the 5 track then bear back to the right for the Nostrand Avenue line
For the IND I got one idea. I heard that before the pandemic The F and M trains were gonna switch tubes with the M going down 63rd and F going down 53rd as a queens Blvd rider that would have been amazing for multiple reasons. #1 When a M and R train enters queens plaza one of them has to wait and if it’s the M (which it mostly is) the E train behind it would also be delayed. If the Tubes were switched E and F trains would not have to wait at queens plaza because there both express and there will be no more delays at queens plaza because E and F share express and will save a lot of time and M trains pop out of the local train at 36th #2 at 36th st F trains cut infront of E trains and E trains cut infront of E trains which is horrible for a express because one would have to wait if they both went down 53rd there would be less delays on express. #3 M trains will most likely become a 24 hour train running from forest hills 71 - to middle village metropolitan Ave all times or at least will run on past Delaney Essex on weekends so please cover this subject in the IND video
@@Flash_Warn1ng Yeah, though I would’ve went straight with a somewhat partial deinterline plan and removed Broadway service on Queens Blvd entirely, and replace it with other rearranged service. Long term, what I think should be done is hook up the local tracks of the Queens Blvd Line with an expanded Second Avenue Subway using a new East River Tunnel. I also recommend doing the Queens Bypass line for the 63rd Street Tunnel. With these projects, we can truly end all interlining, retain local and express service to Queens Plaza and even introduce new travel options for riders (direct East Side service for Queens Blvd riders).
@@TransitTalkNYC Which causes train service to be not frequent outside of Manhattan. The three services are both operating 8 trains a piece per hour, forcing excess trains to go to 96th Street. Perhaps if we deinterline by sending all N and Q trains up Second Avenue and all R and W trains into Queens, we can have more frequent service on both lines, eliminating the need to send excess trains elsewhere.
I’ve been on the Jerome-Anderson station platform, and you cannot put new tracks there anymore. Yankee Stafium is in the way. I took pictures and all, even the tunnel is sealed up. Next I want to visit the Sedgwick Avenue station.
@@kaamsogrimm it would have been Broadway express 7th Ave local Easter parkway local Utica Ave local it would have been a local service to the 4 which would run express
If you're suggesting having the 7 and the L sharing tracks, they can't do that. They have entirely different structure gauges meaning that the IRT is effectively isolated.
My thoughts: The Lenox Ave spur (145 and 148 Streets) should be a shuttle or be abandoned. The Lenox Ave Spur is extremely close to CPW so it doesn’t really matter. The 3 should be rerouted via Dyre Ave and White Plains Road, while the 5 is rerouted via Jerome Ave and a new Utica Ave Line. This removes the merge at 149th Street which even further increases the capability of the IRT, along with the Rogers/Nostrand Junction Rebuild (which I completely agree with). Since the provisions to the Utica Ave Line are off the local tracks, local trains east of Franklin Ave use the Utica Ave Line, while a new switch is needed to allow expresses to run to New Lots.
The 148th Street station serves a major apartment complex built right over the station and adjoining yard. 145th Street does as well. Leave them alone. It's a long walk up a steep hill to get from Lenox Avenue to the IND station at 145th Street.
@@pbatommy Maybe 2 trains should then be split between Dyre and Wakefield? The 149th Street interlocking was designed so that West Side Trains use West Farms and East Side Trains use Jerome. Even though a connection was built between the 2, that merge hinders max headways on the 2, 4, and 5. If we are to keep 148th Street, the 142nd Street interlocking should be grade-separated.
@@pbatommy I've walked from near the CPW Lines to the Lenox Ave Line, and yeah... better off taking the Bx19 or another crosstown Manhattan bus than walking that. Believe there's also a school near the 148th St station as well
@@TMC_BC Incorrect. Those connecting tracks were built when the Lexington Avenue mainline (the Jerome line) was built so trains from the West Farms line could go either down Lexington or 7th Avenues. Why should 2 line trains be split between Dyre Avenue and 241st Street? Your idea makes no sense. Try listening to someone who worked for the system. It's not broken, so don't fix it.
@@pbatommy I don’t know if you understand my point well enough. I’m trying to eliminate the reverse branching induced by the merge Lex and 7th Ave trains take on the West Farms Line west of Grand Concourse. Currently as of now, 2&5 trains can be scheduled at 11.5 trains per hour each, while 4 trains can only be scheduled at 13 trains per hour because the signals can only handle 30 trains per hour max. Those merges split service between 2 different sides of Manhattan which screws up riders who want service to a specific side. By segregating all Lex Ave Expresses to Jerome and 7th Ave Expresses to West Farms, riders have only a quick transfer as wait times will probably be ~2~ minutes only between trains on each line. This can be done all throughout the system, and the IRT is a great start.
Extending the 2nd avenue line along 125th street would be disastrous; an active fault line runs along there. A MUCH SAFER and SMARTER extension would be into the Bronx along 3rd avenue, to eventually go up to Co-op City to connect with the extended D train from 205th/Norwood.
Like the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line between Gun hill road Clearmount Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx. Right after coming in and out the tunnel at 140 street the 8 Thrid Ave could definitely be digging under ground on Thrid Avenue in Manhattan to Battery park place or chatmam Square or south Ferry.
My thoughts for each service in the IRT: (1) No change, possible northern extension to 261st. (2) No change, but add a for White Plains Road Express. (3) Deinterline by rerouting to Dyre Avenue and Nostrand Avenue, replace the (5). (4) Reroute to New Lots Avenue via Eastern Parkway Local east of Franklin Avenue. (5) Deinterline by rerouting to Jerome Avenue. Have them end at Crown Heights via Eastern Parkway Express. (6) Convert Westchester Square to an express station, then run both services to/from Pelham Bay Park during rush hours. (7) Build the 10th Avenue station. (42nd St) No change. You can build an (8) service to Throgs Neck via 3rd Avenue on the Pelham Local if wanted. The most important addition is (Lenox Avenue) from 135th to 149th Lenox.
Love this video! Have you talked about the issue at Flatbush Ave. on the 2/5? Btw Franklin and Flatbush it always stalls btw stops bc there’s only two tracks. But if the IBX actually gets made, the Flatbush Ave. station can be extended to meet up with the IBX allowing for terminating trains at Flatbush to gtfo out of the way for incoming terminating trains
On the bit at the start about the 7, I think 7 congestion is one of those things that could be helped by the N. If they extend it to Laguardia, it should keep on going and cross the 7 somewhere. Either running south through Corona, having a junction at Citi Field(which offers a LIRR tranfer too for Port Washington, which I don't think is really needed but would offer some flexibility), or going under flushing bay to serve College point. If the 7 is extended east toward Queensboro college, maybe the N could swing south and serve Queens College before continuing to Jamaica Station. Or just head Northeast towards Beechhurst
The MTA is going to build 4 new Metro North stations in the Bronx on Amtrak’s. One of those stations will be in Co-op City. Metro North will stop in LIC and then will go to Penn Station!
Great video. I see your points where there could be improvements. The only one that is feasible with minimal costs would be an express service on the 1 line...possibly bringing the 9 back for rush hour duty only (6 sets total). The 9 could run between Rector St (using the South Ferry loop to return back uptown) and 238 Street (where they can lay and return back downtown). Have the 9 go express from 96th - 155th and then from Dyckman to 238th. They would have to put two switches south of 238th street to move trains from local to express track and vice versa. Expanding the 3 will never happen. There's no way for the 3 to connect to the 4 using the abandoned stations since Yankee Stadium pretty much took out any room for the track to elevate from below ground. And the Putnam Bridge is not being converted back to rail use. Which would leave boring tunnels under the Harlem river while also not getting in the way of the existing 3 tracks from the B/D lines. Nope...don't see that. The worst thing they did for the 4 line was make the Fordham Road station a local stop. Then again they probably didn't forsee how it would expand into a major street. It will be pretty hard to widen the station with the current layout. The 2,3,4,5 switches at Rogers Junction in Brooklyn...yeah...they will have to completely re-engineer that considering the station layout coming/going Nostrand Avenue and how that affects express service. Good thing it's only rush hour 5s that causes the problems but it does slow down traffic should any trains be in either station or Franklin Avenue. The 6 should be extended to Co-op City. No need for any express service past Parkchester. And what they're doing now works.
Thank you so much for my opinion and understanding about the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line. A good thing they are still working on the second Avenue subway line a cross 125th Street connections To The Lexington Avenue line 4/5/6 7 th Avenue line 2/3 8 th Avenue line A/B/C/D trains. Last is 125th Street in the whole whild world is the 1 train.
Bring the 3rd Avenue elevated 8 line in the MTA program meetings please. People are complaining like crazy every sense they torn down the 3rd and 9th Avenue elevated line s in the Bronx.
The 3 train can absorb the 2 train to the Bronx. and go Dyer Avenue on the 5 train at East 180 Street and replace the peak directions express 5 train during non-rush hours, and I don’t need 5 express trains.
Do some research, they're just about to open a HUGE new LIRR Station underneath Grand Central Station that they've been working on since 2008. That creates direct lines or transfers in Queens to another LIRR line instead of the Subway, or haveing to deal with the saga of getting between Penn Station and Grand Central Station via the Subway.
Here's my take. I think the 1 Line does need some sort of express service on Broadway above 96 and going to 137th is perfectly fine. Maybe add 4-6 tph peak direction and label it the 9 to have it run from Van Cortlandt to South Ferry via Broadway-7th Avenue Express (of course the the junction near Chambers would have to be improved) and short-turn 1 trains at 137th. I believe the Neried Ave bound 5 should start it's express service at Gun Hill Road instead to alleviate the chokehold at 180th from Dyre Avenue Bound 5 trains. The 4 express can definitely be improved from Bedford to 149th-GC. New junctions would need to be installed but that's fine trains can short-turn at Bedford. Have the 2/3 go to Nostrand and extended down to Sheepshead Bay/Avenue U with a better capacity flowing island platform. Have the 5 continue to run through Eastern Pkwy via express to Linden Blvd (a new stop beyond New Lots in the Livonia Yard) and the 4 running local after Franklin to curve south under Utica to Kings Plaza Shopping Center. The 6 is perfect fine the way it is. However, the interlockings between Parkchester and Castle Hill as well as before Pelham Bay can be improved. 7 Line doesn't necessary need an extension but instead have a new stop on 10th Avenue where the L train can curve north under 10th to extend to at leave 59th St or 72 St
Simple MNRR/LIRR RER via empire line and a deviation spur to serve 96th and GWB and a station transfer at 145th with new haven trains splitting at 34th to go to Hoboken into NJ while the Hudson and Harlem ones continue via penn as LIRR trains. The railroad becomes a de facto 1 express
i should think that d and the 4 lines in the Bronx should have a free transfer thing or just a tunnel to work to the 4 or B D station idk something like that
I'm pretty sure that given the distance between the two lines (which are a bit too close for the area density imo), a transfer between the two is unnecessary north of 161st Street.
I live on the 1(215 St). It's SO MUCH BETTER than the A line in Upper Manhattan. An express would be great. It could run 55mph on that super straight track. Here's my idea: 242 St 231 St 225 St Dyckman St 168 St 145 St 125 St 96 St Local Service to Chambers St, then skips Cortlandt and Rector going right to South Ferry. Still, the 1 is EXCELLENT anyway! It's fast in Upper Manhattan, even faster than the A "express" above 125, and then at 96 when the 1 turns slow you catch the 2/3 and they BULLET to Chambers, at 45-60 mph.
Another problem for the Red Rocket here is that 148th st is only an-island platform and the space around it is built up so if the MTA wants to still use 148th St as a terminus still that would be a problem because the only way into Lenox Yard is at 145th St unless they could make an extra stop between 155th and 148th st for a terminus and for Another Yard Entrance into Lenox
If they don't do the NJ extension, the 7 and the L should be extended to 23rd Street and 11th Avenue (Chelsea Piers), creating a connection between the 7 and L lines
Wouldn’t it be better to extend the L along 10th Avenue to up to 72nd Street, bringing in new service to the West Side. It could connect to the 7 at 42nd Street, and the long planned 10th Avenue stop would be finally constructed.
Definitely the Rogers Junction should be fixed. Excavate it! Rebuild it so the tracks don’t cross each other. I like having the 3 go to the Bronx. 1 express would get Columbia and City Coke pissed as the express would pass the entire University complex from 110th street-137th Street. I think you should cover to the Utica Avenue line!
Knowing the MTA’s history with Capital projects, the best option is to just add two new switches East of Nostrand Avenue and deinterline the whole thing. Leave the 2 train unchanged, send the 3 train to Flatbush, have the 4 train make local stops east of Franklin Avenue to New Lots Avenue (where trains are often terminating anyway, especially during weekend work), and have the 5 train run express to Utica Avenue. This ensures that passengers on the eastern end of Brooklyn see faster trips by getting express trains by default while riders on the 7th Avenue IRT would see more even service, reducing delays. Even with transferring, almost all passengers would save 5-10 minutes on their travel times overall.
@@TransitTalkNYC it's weird there isnt a train by kings plaza. Im not 100% sure but i thought there're tracks near the plaza that the L could run on near livonia ave
I've seen some plans that call straight up removing the Broadway-7th Avenue Line entirely in the Bronx, and replacing it with an extension of the (A) train along the old Putnam Line to 240th Street. However my plan would had this thing go up Broadway to 240th Street. The (1) train would've been cutback to 215th Street (to be rebuilt into a terminal stop).
So you’re suggesting that two new switches be installed between the junction and the Nostrand Avenue platform and implementing this pattern: (2) (3) to Flatbush (4) local east of Franklin Avenue to New Lots Avenue (5) express to New Lots Avenue If you’re referring to simply swapping the 2 and 3, it won’t really do anything to ease issues at Franklin Avenue, especially since during the time the 3 ran to Flatbush, alternating 4 trains were serving both Flatbush and Utica.
Definitely bring this 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back it's is worser over there they have the BX15/41/Bx 19 buses running like crazy between Gun hill road and 149 street 3rd it's not helping out the 2 5 trains at all. When they had the old 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line it really helped out the 2 5 trains sence they torn it down in 1973. Nothing cannot replace or take over the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line anymore. I don't care how many buses they have running over there it cannot get there any faster than a train. They definitely need to bring this 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back where it belongs Let it be a Elevated line structure which it don't have to make to much noises anymore just like they have the Air train and the 7 trains and the A train s at ozone park Queens.
Chances in the Boggie down south Bronx rebuild the brand new Thrid Avenue Elevated line in the south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx up to Gun hill road. Never elevated in Manhattan again. There's is a definitely studying on that. I have a real spriital feeling they are definitely gonna have two eights. One on the 7th Ave lines and the powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line I'm telling you. They could definitely use the 10 trains to replace the furmer 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line between Gun hill road and Batincal gardens Frordam plaza and Battery park place or chatmam Square or south Ferry or Queens plaza connecting to the 7 N W 11 trains
Eventually they are definitely gonna rebuild the brand new Thrid Avenue Elevated line back to south Bronx only. Never rebuild another elevated line in Manhattan again. The Thrid Avenue is definitely gonna run above ground in the south Bronx between Gun hill road Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx and under ground on Thrid Avenue I'm telling you. Including over the cross Bronx express highway just like the F elevated line in Brooklyn.
I look at the capacity map and currently there is 1 train 11 TPH 2 train 11 TPH 4 train 13 TPH 5 train 12 TPH 6 train 18 TPH For the 1 train there’s nothing more you could really do at most I would say put CBTC on the 1 train line that would get you around 16 TPH on the 1 train. The white plains road in total has 23 TPH. 149th Street junction where the 2 and 5 trains meet; 5 trains must negotiate a wicked S-curve between the 138th Street and 149th Street - Grand Concourse stations. The sharpness of the curve restricts the 5 train’s speed, which causes reduces capacity on the 2/4/5. The new alignment would remedy the bottleneck, The 5 train merge would be rebuilt so it would occur between Grand Concourse and 3rd Ave stations so that the curve of the tunnel would allow for much faster/smoother merges. Service on the White Plains Rd Line (2/5 trains) and to some extent the Jerome Avenue line would be sped up. This would allow for three more 5 trains to operate and two more 2/4 trains to operate. Bring it up to 5 train 15 TPH 2 train 13 TPH 4 train 15 TPH The down side is that the 5 train no longer stops at 149th street grand Concourse but that’s fine cause 90% of riders are heading directly to Manhattan and Dyre Avenue or Nereid Avenue so it shouldn’t be a problem. Video proof ruclips.net/video/s3Gyda6JZc8/видео.html as you could see in the video with the rush hour Utica Avenue bound 5 train only like two people got off the station so if anything people would be satisfied that they would skip a station. The 6 train is pretty unique for having a diamond train which speeds up service and it doesn’t merge with any trains routes. But on the Pelham Line the peak express trains switching between express and local tracks delays trains behind them and reduces the overall capacity of the line. Currently during weekday peak way direction Local trains start/end at Parkchester station. I propose converting Westchester Sq station into an express stop and extending Local 6 trains to terminate there and go directly into the yard. This would allow for three more 6 trains to run bring it up to 6 train 21 TPH Finally to install CBTC on all Bronx IRT lines The white plains road line should get CBTC first which will increase the TPH to 2 train 17 TPH 5 train 19 TPH Overall White Plains Road 36 TPH The Pelham line should be next the 6 train TPH would increase to 6 train 26 TPH And finally the Jerome Avenue line The 4 train TPH would be increase to 4 train 20 TPH. For Roger Junctions the only solution is to totally rebuild Rogers Avenue into a flying junction like the one south of 59th Street Columbus Circle. By rebuilding the junction 2/3/4/5 trains will be able to serve any combination of terminals, and handle 56 TPH. For example, 2/3 to Flatbush 4 to Utica 5 to New Lots. Or 4/5 to Flatbush 2 to Utica 3 to New Lots. I prefer the current routings as they are very helpful in terms of one seat rides accesses and will be even more effective when roger junction is fixed. And there that’s how ya improve the IRT Mainline
The Bronx kinda ok Brooklyn: The idea of ripping up Eastern Parkway, causing existing service to be limited for years, at a cost of over a billion dollars just so some people in Flatbush and New Lots can save an extra minute of their lives for a one seat ride is a joke when adding a couple of switches and deinterlining the line can be done for a fraction of the cost
@@gabepl2986 Then you piss off all Nostrand Avenue riders trying to get to the Lexington Avenue line and all East New York riders trying to get to the 7th Avenue line which is why deinterlining won’t work here. Nevermind the fact that trains would probably come more frequently forcing people to all of a suddenly transfer is a horrendously unpopular idea no matter what form you put it in. Same reason why deinterlining is extremely unlikely to happen in general, you need to provide routes that people want in order to make commuters happy. In the early 2000s the 3 train was expanded to 10 cars to allow more passengers to arrive The 5 train extended to Flatbush Avenue all weekday in 2009 to reduce the amount of passengers transferring at Franklin Av outside of the rush. deinterlining screws over commuters and overwhelm all four routes negating any time savings gained in removing the additional merges. Further more the 3 train will be cut off from the livonia yard which is WHY THE 2/3 SWAPPED southern terminals in the 1980s. Do what’s most effective not what’s cheapest
@@Amiri_Francis People can be pretty hard to satisfy. Seriously why are one seat so sacred. What the problem with a single transfer And doesn’t the (3) have the Lenox Yard for storing trains during the off hours? Some trains could be stored there during overnight and trains go to East 180th Street Yard or Livonia yard during the low ridership times.
@@gabepl2986 But now you have the issue of the MTA now having to pay Crews more time to deadhead those trains to yards. People will already resist having to make forced transfers. Now throw in a yard and opposition increases. Trust me, the MTA will find a way to minimize costs. Best bet keep Roger Junction the same currenct routes. Remember the 1980s changes were made to reduce non-revenue subway car mileage, to provide a dedicated fleet for each service, and to provide an easily accessible inspection yard for each service. The change allowed the 2 to be dedicated to 239th Street Yard and allowed the 3 to be assigned to Livonia Yard.
59 st/Columbus Circle should be an express stop. It's a pain if you're on the 2/3 and want to transfer to A/C or B/D - right now you can't do that directly.
The stop is a local station not only because the IRT station existing before the IND, but also for some crowd control. Not to mention that you can transfer between the 2, 3, A, B, C, and D lines at Times Square-42nd Street or just use the 1 train to get to Times Square.
@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 They stop at Bryant Park, which is now connected to Times Square via the new shuttle passageway and the existing 7 train. In addition, the B and D are a faster alternative to Brooklyn compared to the 2 and 3 lines and the A and C serves the same areas as well so it’s not needed.
I read that it's designed that way because when the line was built there wasn't much around Columbus Circle. So we suffer today because of how the city was over 100 years ago!!
The # 7 train to Secaucus NJ, why u asked. The Hudson Yards mega developments, with maybe an expansion of the L train west & north to Hudson Yards. A mixed-use a commercial, cultural, entertainment & residential. Moving the Port Authority Bus Terminal to Secaucus, NJ, for office space in Mid-town NYC!
at franklin, in my opinion there should be a switch from local to express from eastern parkway bklyn museum and franklin so the 3 and 4 go on the express track and the 2 and 5 go on the local track but the small section for the local service to go straight to president without going on the 3 line should be a thing too to kinda make this option a better one
That’s a great idea but something I’ve noticed is that the local and express tracks comes into the station from different levels so I think it would be hard to make a switch
That won’t work since it would introduce more track sharing rather than eliminate it. It’s more cost effective to have the new switches be built west of Nostrand Avenue between the platform and the junction and have all 2 and 3 trains to Flatbush and all 4 and 5 trains going to Utica Avenue and New Lots Avenue.
@@leeka2793 actually in 47th-50th at station on the southbound side, the F and M are on the express track while the B and D are on the local track and when they go to 42nd st Bryant park they switch tracks. Maybe the good thing to do is make the 5 run local in Brooklyn and the 3 express and that way the 2 and 5 can go to president st quickly. As of now after Franklin Ave on the 2-3-4-5 affects all trains, if the 5 and the 2 or 3 leave at the same time, one of them will need to wait and if it’s the 5 then it affects the 4 because if there is a 4 train right behind (The 4 and 5 run like 2 mins apart from each other) that 4 could be held until the 5 proceeds
I knew just by the way the structure of the tracks by 161st station are that a train used to use those lower scaffolding. Everytime I drive by it I wondered what train ran there
Wondered that when I was a child in the 90's when Yankee stadium was in its original location and the race track across the street. I understand years ago why MTA wouldn't reuse those stations as that would involve building bridge to cross the east river which city officials would want to avoid.
That area by Yankee stadium is no more, sadly. I was thinking about using the location for a the setting of a book, but as far as my onsite investigations led, I couldn't find the tunnel entrance. I think it was buried over when they rebuilt the stadium
The best way to eliminate the rogers ave junction mess would be to cut the southbound express from crossing over to southbound local---meaning 4 & 5 trains would run exp to Utica and 2 & 3 trains local to Flatbush---the northbound tracks from Flatbush would have to descend under the 4 & 5 express tracks & rise up & connect to the Northbound local tracks---yes it will be a headache for commuters but my opinion this is the only way to permanently fix the issue
It’s actually easier to install two new switches between the express and local tracks between the Nostrand Avenue platform and the Rogers Avenue Junction to make deinterlining easier.
With the 1-line, the best thing you can do is bring back skip-stop service for the rush hour! I don't think express service will be too feasible - you'll have bottle necks where the middle tracks end IMO.
It would have to be labeled as a special express service, not a frequent one. So passengers using it will know the time such a service will exist. 3 or 5 trains in the morning and evening rush. It would have to be timed that it would not interfere with local service. Then they can even go as far as running it as an express pass 96th Street, as if it becomes local after this, the service might be looked at as being useless. It would at least be advertised as a one seat ride to South Ferry. People who will ride this train would be former transfer passengers to the "A" 168th Street station. But it would do nothing for people currently using the "A" north of 168th Street (or 168th Street) if they heading downtown. The Broadway Line does have the advantage of having stations in more populated areas north of 168th Street. So discouraging some of these people from a 168th Street "A" transfer might actually work. But the "A" still have more superior transfers down the line than the westside IRT. Especially if you considering the "D" line. But if passengers are heading towards Times Square, than that might be enough of a game changer. The BMT Broadway has the best transfers than every line in Manhattan. However, it is very hard to beat a train that skips 125th Street or 59th Street. Although the speed could be better, it still a straight away. Broadway becomes curvy after about 72nd Street. But IRT uses shorter and less weighted cars, so there acceleration and speed is better. But because of the infrastructure for express requires slower speeds. Not unless it is a special service that skips 168th Street to 96th, 72,42,34,14 and Chambers Street into South Ferry, it is a no go. People want a train that is reliable and consistent. So a 137th Street stop would have to be only. No smart planner is going to recommend switching an express off of it route to than be brought back on the express track. It would reduce any real time savings. Because this train again has to switch back to the local track and than to the 2/3 express track to continue on.
Eastern Parkway originally ran down what is the beginning of Pitkin Ave, but they turned it north and that why past that point Eastern Parkway is known as E.P extension. The 4 was supposed to run down pitkin but it never came in existence
One way to make 1 express happen is MNRR/LIRR RER via the old Putnam route going across and linking to express and local tracks of both the new haven and Harlem lines at Wakefield and Woodlawn with linking stations at marble hill or 238th then 207, GWB181, 145th build an inter change with the 1 at these stations then the RER trains use the empire line to 96th via a deviation to get to a transfer station closer to 96th street for easier links to the 1/2/3 trains then trains return to LIRR via penn station some of the RER trains merge into the Hudson line combined frequency on this RER de facto express would be high and allow for minimal investment however the current express track north of 96th would be rendered redundant.
Another comment from me. Whoever said that they should extend the #7 line from the Hudson Yards station into New Jersey, that's a more difficult situation. Because that would mean the Port Authority would have to get involved, or New Jersey Transit has to get involved. That's the only way this would work. Another PATH station line because of the Hudson River Crossings is their jurisdiction. Also, NYC DOT or MTA of NY State would have to negotiate an agreement to have the #7 be allowed to enter the State of NJ depending on where the other station will be built, so it's not as easy as you think. The only example I can give you is the commuter railroads that both NJ Transit & the MTA have with their Main/Bergen County Line & Pascack Valley Line. Rockland County, NY is west of the Hudson and is connected to NJ. So to help with those towns in Rockland County and others north of it those agreements are good as these trains will end in Hoboken. The only time an NJ Transit train is allowed to go into any NY State Counties is when there is an MTA Train car & MTA Train engine. connected it to it. Having lived in Fair Lawn & within walking distance to the Radburn Station, I would see this all the time either waiting for the train or when I was in Hoboken trying to get back to my apartment. Once the Main Line or Bergen Line train leaves the Mahwah Station for Suffern, NY it then changes to the Port Jervis Line for MTA Purposes & Pascack Valley remains for the trains going to NY as there are only three stations after crossing the State Border. So that is your information folks.
I feel like the 3 train should be extended to the Bronx along the 4 line In my head the 2,3,4,5 would of all met up at 138 st-grand concourse traveled to 161 st yankee Stadium with the 4,5 going express and the 2,3 making stops at 149 st- grand concourse and a 155 st station at 161 st there would be a transfer to the B and D , metro north and the bx6 select bus then the 3 would travel up Jerome ave up to Fordham road and maybe branch off going to river dale 263rd street
People complained enough when D ran as a peak-express on game days. So uptown D would leave 145th on the express, skip 155th then switch to the local just south of 161st. It’ll run local at 161st and sometime 167th; after 167th, it would continue its express service to Fordham Rd. That personally annoyed me. EDIT: Cuomo wanted the 7 to go to NJ.
NJ? Jeez there going too fast! How about getting the subway to most parts of NYC like Half of queens and Staten island before you expand into other municipalities.
The BMT is no rip off of the IRT, for one the BRT was created first. The BRT is the same company as the BMT. The BRT formed 1896, the IRT formed 1902. My timeline video explains all of this. Even the oldest sections of the subway still remain in service on the BMT- the BMT Lexington Avenue el (Gates Avenue-Cypress Hills). Aswell as a section of the “D” from the 1860s.
@@AVeryRandomPerson The BMT Lexington Avenue line still operates. The region of the “J” line from Cypress Hills through Gates Avenue is part of the BMT Lexington Avenue elevated. There is a reason that section of the “Jamaica El” opened before the BRT and IRT existed. It is not really the Jamaica “el” it is the Lexington Avenue “el”.
The 1 express stops are horrible except maybe 168th Street. It merges at the wrong place and skips the most populated stations. If they implement this (which I don't think they would do) it would have to run as a special express service. But it would do more harm than go. It basically would take passengers from 168th Street and drop them off at 96th Street. Passengers better hope the next express is the #3 as that particular train has room from those additional passengers who would have used the "A". But the "A" runs very frequently from 207th into Brooklyn. That's because they are three branches. And that 168th Street IRT station does require an elevator reducing any real time savings. The IRT is superior north of 168th Street though, but even than that is not enough of a benefit over the "A" that skips from 125th Street or 59th Street. You can also connect to the B/D and than E/F. So transfers on this line is more superior. Meanwhile the IRT gives your best transfer at Times Square with the #7 and the Broadway BMT (N/Q/R/W) give your best transfer south of that station. The westside IRT offers the worse transfers outside Fulton Street. So when you add all these disadvantages, the "A" comes out ahead by a mile. And besides, they didn't make a song for the "A" train by accident. It just get the job DONE!
The 6 used to go to South Ferry, at least during the off-peak hours, but ridership was so low to the point where the entire stop was closed for Lexington Avenue Trains. Since then, 5 trains have terminated at Bowling Green, which is actually a short walk from South Ferry anyway, with trains turning around at South Ferry without any passengers. You don't need a transfer between the 1 and 6.
I would love if the D train got extended to Co-op City/Bay Plaza under Burke Avenue then merge right into Gun Hill Road and merge left onto Bartow Avenue. Last stop would be Co-op City Blvd
@@TheRailLeaguer You mean the D/6 trains to co op city mall it's gonna be worked out some where down the line. I'm telling you. The same thing for the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line. They been started to build the second Avenue line. They haven't decide yet if the Q/T trains to run a cross 125 Street to connect to the Broadway 1 line .
@@TheRailLeaguer it's gonna happen i could tell you that now. And the 3rd avenue Elevated line to. A millions of people are screening out loud for this 3rd Avenue elevated line to come back.
The IRT 180th Bronx Park Station was on Boston Rd and Bronx Park South… right next to the park and the Bronx Zoo. It was not right next to the modern day E180th 2/5 station. That was another line that went to Boston and was part of the modern day IRT Dyre 5 train. The trains going to Bronx Park South left 177th (tremont) and went straight up to 180th and Bronx Park South. I’ve only seen 1 picture of that station.
If you didn’t know one R142 1 train went Fully express (7 Avenue and Broadway Express) Mr.Railfan has the program I think, some 1 trains go Broadway express
@@peskypigeonxWhy not both be sent to NJ. The L can be extended north via 10th Avenue to 72nd Street then continue west into NJ to American Dream Meadowlands and to Rutherford. The 7 would be extended to Secaucus Junction. This should ease congestion at the Port Authority Bus Terminal.
Why not send the 3 line as an express train on the Jerome Avenue Line. It can go during limited rush-hour from 149st GC to it’s terminal at Burnside Avenue. skipping 161, 167, 170, Mt Eden Avenue and 176.
A connection between the existing Lenox Avenue Line at 148th Street and the existing Jerome Avenue Line has been bought up quite a number of times (including from me at one point) but it’s been shot down due to another interline and merge point added on the already delay-prone IRT. If anything, you can just route the 3 route via University Avenue (this is something I have planned as part of a new 4-track trunk line with the 4 train). This can also be done with a bunch of new projects, such as a new Harlem River Tunnel to eliminate that grade crossings, fixing the junction with the 5 trains to speed service and avoid unnecessary redundancy at 149th Street-Grand Concourse, and more.
On the "4," wasn't the express stretch from 167 to Burnside actually part of the same Ninth Avenue El you mentioned earlier -- the line with the stops at Sedgwick and Anderson-Jerome?
I think it only ran to 167th. I renebe the old blue "INTERBOROUGH RAPID TRANSIT COMPANY"signs that read "167th ST For 6TH and 9th ELEVATED LINES" when I was a kid. Those signs lasted into the early 90's.
The 6 to Co Op City isn't feasible just because it's above ground. It would have to go across 3 highways and where would the station be? U have the Bay plaza mall.
Can the landfill along Gun Hill Rd support ‘D’ service from 205 St? Are country club, city island, Pelham gardens ready for highway traffic just for 6 service above the Bruckner to Barton Bay Plaza?
The problem with the "1" running express from 96th to 137th would be that it's actually the most densely populated and trafficked section of the route, so a large number of people would still be stuck waiting for a local!
Yeah you would've change track layouts from 96th to 157th street with an additional track making it 2 by 2 with some island platforms(including between dyckman street to van courtlandt park 242nd street layouts).
@@ECRALSE40LPS and the MTA isn't going to do that.
are you sure midtown between Penn Station and Columbus Circle isn’t more trafficked
@@rahmel2009 I'm thinking of people who actually *live* in the particular area. The UWS was once found to be the most densely populated area, not only in Manhattan, but in all of the city. Residents rely on the "1" to get them up and downtown. (Once, during a weekend service disruption, a shuttle bus service replaced the train from 96th to 137th; on that crowded stretch of Broadway, it added forty-five minutes to what would ordinarily have been a half-hour trip!)
You would need to change the track layout between 96th street to 157th street and between dyckman street to Van cortandlt park 242nd Street so that way 1 trains can go express from 96th street to 137th street city college and to 157th street then 1 trains will go local until 191st street then go express again from 191st street to marble hill 225th street then 1 trains will go local in the bronx
It's your favorite retired TA motorman here. Here's my thoughts. The upper end of the 1 line and the Bronx part of the 4 have too many riders that get on and off at too many places to make express service practical. In your previous video, that's why the skip stop 1/9 was a failure. There was a proposal to connect the Lenox line to the Jerome line via the old 9th Avenue el connection from 145th Street station (148th Street did not open up until 1968.). Between the third rail issues, and the 6 car long stations at both Sedgwick and Anderson-Jerome Avenue stations, that never materialized. I'd leave the 4 and 5 connection at 149th Street Grand Concourse as it is. This way, in an emergency, you can send a 4 train to the lower level and terminate it there. (I've done that move myself.) What makes Rogers Junction (aka Nostrand Junction) extremely difficult is that the Eastern Parkway line was built as a four track, two level stacked arrangement with local tracks on top of each other, and express tracks on top of each other. It was the prototype for IND construction along Central Park West. Had the Eastern Parkway line been built as a conventional 4 track line, you wouldn't have those problems. However, we're stuck with it the way it is. As far as extending the 7 further into Queens, you'd make crowding problems on the line worse. As far as 74th Street is concerned, it predated the IND, and the transfer, by a couple of decades. IMHO, Fisk Interlocking should be restored between 61st and 69th Streets. The track arrangement there was identical to that north of 177th Street Parkchester on the 6. It'll allow for much greater flexibility for rerouting and turning trains. A similar interlocking should be installed north of Junction Blvd. There was a proposal to connect the former LIRR Whitestone Branch to today's 7 near Willets Point Blvd. The expense of grade crossing eliminations and the Great Depression ended that idea. I'm surprised you didn't mention that the 5 should be an all day express on the West Farms line (the section between E. 180th Street and 149th Street Grand Concourse on the 2 and 5).
The 5 train has been my home line since 2004 and an all day express would be great if there was 4 tracks instead of 3. What I wish is that they get rid of all those turns north of 174th street. Trains go very slow between 174 and 180. The local 2 train can sometimes overtake the 5 express train in this area.
@@josephnyy86 I worked on the 5 for much of my career, and still live near the Morris Park station.
@@pbatommy then you probably gave me a ride at some point lol
Do you know why the D doesn't consistently stop at at 161?
@@daneshj4013 Downtown D train is express during weekday morning rush hour. Uptown D train is express during weekday evening rush hour. 161 Street-Yankee Stadium is a local stop, for those who don't know.
The #4 train line, the separation of the tracks is actually the old 9th Ave El. The 4 would go to of course Yankee Stadium, but that right turn away and the separation was the trains to the Polo Grounds and the 9th Ave El. I just learned about it a couple of months ago, The courtyard near Jerome Ave across from the new Yankee Stadium between and above that apartment building was the last stop in the Bronx on that El, before crossing over the Harlem River. So it's not below River Ave., it's lowering itself to get into Manhattan and Sugar Hill/Polo Grounds.
They should make the 3trains to cross over there to 167 Street Jerome avenue right under the 4 trains.
Or the 3 trains could definitely run a long side of macones bridge across Manhattan to the Bronx sence they have the new stadium blocked off.
@@leecornwell1062 not sure if it's possible, they have to do some form of topography to make sure they can do it., plus they need to add an escalator or elevator to get into the ground, not enough room on that intersection at E. 167th street & River Ave.
Sedgwick Av and Anderson/Jerome Av 🚉 Stations.
They definitely should extend the 3 train to the Bronx via old 9th avenue line merging onto the Jerome Ave number 4 line making the 3 and 4 operating together alongside each other all the way to Woodlawn
0:49 "IRT is the original and BMT and IND are copies of it." I feel you man, I was born IRT
The IRT (numbered trains) is the oldest; the BMT isn't a copy; it was an independent, private system serving Brooklyn and Manhattan; the IND was city built! The city merged them around 1940. Wikipedia has a decent history of our transit system!
My home line used to be the 6, so ik how you feel
Yeah those tiny IRT trains are cute!!! Lol
@@willair6278 yes sir #IRTFreedom
IRT 4 LIFE!
8:03 No can do. There is a parking structure right next to the stadium that's in the path of your proposed detour. You would have to go all the way across the street and build above the skate park, but the the stub structure that connected the Polo Grounds Shuttle to the 4 train is back the other way at the new stadium.
The oldest continuously running line in the system dates back to 1867. It was the forerunner of what is today known as The West End Line, currently served by the "D" train.
A standard online interface for metro card management would also be appreciated. At least give us the option to check balance and add fare, through a standard browser.
One part of the saga that seems to never get brought up, it was originally 3 separate companies, that's the reason there are Stations where lines cross that have different names based on which route you're on, they never dealt with it after the MTA took over all 3.
it... gets brought up all the time?
@@TransitTalkNYC i think the 1 should go express because From South Ferry to 242nd is real long and they need to shorten it
@@TrickyPchester0948 it's not as long as you think. Running time is 54 minutes end to end.
Actually, sometimes they did. The A/J/L station at Broadway Junction once had three different names, but was eventually standardized.
I've always thought the N/W should be extended to LGA airport and maybe beyond. I know that's beyond the scope of your videos, but just expressing a thought that would greatly improve the experience of many New Yorkers. Regarding the #7 expansion, my opinion is that they should bring it around and connect it to the A/C/E and L at 8th Avenue for another transfer point.
That’s not needed, though an extension into NJ, whenever the region gets its shit together, would be in play. After all, it wouldn’t be the first time a metro subway traversed multiple states (DC Metro also services Virginia and Maryland too).
@@TheRailLeaguer I'm not opposed to the idea of getting service to NJ. However, I wonder why you feel that subway service to LaGuardia airport isn't needed. I'm guessing you don't use that airport very often, and it's one of the few airports in the world that doesn't have a subway line serving it (in a city that otherwise has subway service, of course). And the AirTrain from LGA out to the eastern end of Queens to connect to LIRR is practically useless to anyone in Manhattan or Brooklyn trying to get to LGA by train--they're going miles out of the way.
@@ajs11201 I’m not talking about the LaGuardia Extension. That is definitely needed. Sure beats that stupid AirTrain. What I was referring to was swinging the 7 train back to 14th Street/8th Avenue to connect to the A, C, and E. Me personally, I think that extending the L train up 10th Avenue, intersecting with the 7 train would do a better job.
@@TheRailLeaguer Bringing the 7 down to 14th Street or extending the L up to 10th Avenue are really two sides of the same coin--and I'd be in strong support of either. From 10th Avenue, either the 7 or the L could continue on to New Jersey.... Interesting concepts.
@@ajs11201 The 7 and L would both go to NJ in the plans I have. For the 7 train, the plan would not travel to 14th but rather leave Manhattan once it reaches 23rd Street. It would then follow the plan that was put out in a video by the Meadowlands Chamber of Commerce and have it terminate at Secacus Junction. Meanwhile, my L train plan has this route come up 10th Avenue, making stops in more growing areas of the West Side until 72nd Street, where it would then continue up Amsterdam Avenue and 79th Street, cross under the Hudson, and then operate through Guttenberg NJ until it reaches the Meadowlands Sports complex. After that it would continue into Rutherford to meet with the Rutherford station on the New Jersey Transit Main Line. As both alignments would feature stops serving the local communities, a substantial number of bus riders would transfer to these new lines to reach Midtown, alleviating the need to go all the way into the Port Authority Bus Terminal (some buses can terminate at Secacus, Meadowlands, or at Rutherford). With a reduction of bus traffic through the Lincoln Tunnel and into the PA Bus Terminal, the PA Bus Terminal would downsize its operations, consolidating its operations into a smaller number of gates, which should reduce some congestion over there. Meadowlands riders can also have a good alternative to the NJT trains, increasing capacity to/from the stadium as well.
I'm learning a lot I can't wait for part 2
A good idea would be if the 3 goes from 135st or 145st to 149st grand concourse and they built a new track so that they can enter the station with the 4 platform instead of the 2 and 5 platform, then the 3 would go over the Jermone Ave line to burnside and then get its own last 6 stops, if that happens the 3 and 4 will definitely be sharing trains like the 2 and 5. One last thing I think the 4 should make local stops in nostrand and Kingston and go to new lots all the time with the 3.
great video, yes plz cover the utica ave line!
The #7 extension into NJ was proposed due to the former Giants, now Met Life, Stadium needing service from NYC for Giants/Jets fans. NJ Transit sort of solved that with that spur they built onto the stadiums grounds.
The first time I remember hearing of it was right after the ARC project to increase capacity to Penn Station from NJ was axed, and then it faded once the Gateway plan came along. The 7 extension was going to run to Secaucus (not-really-a-)Junction(-more-of-a-transfer), not to the stadium, so you would still have had to use the shuttle train that runs between Secaucus and the Meadowlands.
@@de-fault_de-fault which is why that extension is dumb
The Els began at South Ferry. The 6th Ave El merged with the 9th Ave. Line near Columbus Circle. At 110 the Line curved to 8th Ave (the "Suicide Curve") and until 1916 ended at the Pölö Grounds at 155th St. Then the line was extended to the Bronx using the Putnam Bridge, previosly used by the Putnam Division of New York Central, which then ended at Sedgwick/Jerome Aves. The El closed in 1940 but the section from the Polo Grounds to the Bronx was maintained as a shuttle until 1958 , a year after the Giants left for San Francisco. At that time the bridge was demolished.
If he does the BMT hopefully he touches on the J/Z being rerouted via Jamaica to remove those Curves along Cresent and Cypress
Those curves discourage many Jamaica/AIRTRAIN riders, heh.
@@the-renegade They just discourage riders in general.
However, more would ride if the Jamaica Avenue elevated (the section actually along Jamaica Avenue going to Jamaica Center) were to be connected to the Fulton Street Line, which in turn would be connected to the Broadway Line. This would allow for C trains to serve Lefferts Blvd via the express tracks and double Fulton Street service overall. Could attract some riders from the 2, 3, 4, and 5 as well.
That would require MULTIPLE millions of dollars if they could actually do it
They would have to buy all the property involved, because it's above ground, if it was underground, they wouldn't
@@richietattersall2122 it's an el, so they have to worry more about the approval of nearby residents. It's not like they're building this in your backyard. Also, a few million dollars is a very generous expectation.
@@TheRailLeaguer the MTA wanted to eliminate the S-Curve at Crescent Street since the late 1950s and have the Jamaica straightened out from Broadway Junction to 168 Street, add a middle track so the QJ could run express down Jamaica Avenue. Crescent, Woodhaven, and Queens Blvd would have been converted express stops.
I am not a fan of the design of Hudson Yards station. They take the 7 all the way out to 11th Avenue, build a massive mezzanine only to then give it just a single entrance with escalators taking you halfway back to 10th Avenue. They should have an entrance on the other side facing north to be convenient for the ferries to Weehawken at Pier 79.
The IRT trains are the numbered lines. All other lines are designated by letters. This is the clearest way of identifying which trains are IRT to those unfamiliar with the system!
Man keep theses videos coming, awesome stuff, always happy on a Tuesday with your stuff in store
The 9th Avenue Line was called the Polo Grounds Shuttle. It was abandoned in 1958
I think that the D being extended to Co Op City would be so good to do. I live alkng that line and it would be faster travel to the mall than taking the bus
Hold up, I live in co op and I didn’t know ppl who live on the d line come all the way to bay plaza?! Ain’t there other places to shop like on Fordham? Why do ppl come all the wya to bay plaza?
@@TheLaziiness Lmfao u didn't know? People go there mostly for the AMC theater and the Bay Plaza Mall and the shopping center is also a bonus
I remember when my grandma lived there. If we took the subway into the city, we needed to take a bus to the subway. The New York Bus Service offered a one seat ride. The easiest rail service expansion to the Co op City area would've been to plaster a train station onto the Amtrak/Metro North line running past it.
@@coolboss999 true and it would make both gun hill rd stations more accessible
@@marshmelloesv2892 Let the Pelham 6 line be extended to co op city mall barto Bronx it's much closer and leave the B D trains alone and fucus on the Pelham line to co op city mall barto Bronx. You have e remember that the metro North is gonna have four new stations in the Bronx Hunts point moriss avenue parkchester and co op city.
The station @Sedgwick still exists, but is currently being filled in completely due to i87 construction. Only the section of the station that connected to the former Putnam Division station outdoors will remain.
Anderson/Jerome Avenue station still exists on the roof of a now vacant business on the corner of 162nd and Jerome Avenue. Prior to 2009, the trackway pointed towards Jerome avenue on the south sidewalk (?) of 162nd street. This section of 162 street no longer exists due to the new stadium and the trackways now point to one of Yankee Stadiums gates.
The Putnam railroad could definitely happen again to connect to the 3 trains on Sedgwick Ave. Have the Putnam railroad line go up to Brewster North right alongside the Putnam trailer
The Putnam railroad could definitely happen again to connect to the 3 trains on Sedgwick Ave. Have the Putnam railroad line go up to Brewster North right alongside the Putnam trailer
The Putnam railroad could definitely happen again to connect to the 3 trains on Sedgwick Ave. Have the Putnam railroad line go up to Brewster North right alongside the Putnam trailer
The IRT is good the way it is now. None of the lines cross each other Except the 2/5 at Mott and Roger's Junction.
For Rogers Junction, we could deinterline by installing two new switches and have all 2 and 3 trains to Flatbush, all 4 trains make the local stops to New Lots, and have 5 trains express to Utica Avenue.
For Mott, reconstruct the connection between the White Plains Road Line and Jerome Avenue Line so that 5 trains merges with the 2 train between 149th Street-Grand Concourse and 3rd Avenue-149th Street (in other words, 5 trains bypass the 149th Street-Grand Concourse station), thus increasing speeds.
Both of these should improve service.
We need more 2 train service in the Bronx. I honestly would prefer the 2 and 3 switching Northern terminals. They are more 3 trains arriving than the 2. Also, during rush hour the 2/5 slow down drastically at Jackson Avenue-149th concourse.. The 2 also slows down right before 135th too for the 3 can come in.
@@ariesmichaelsayan4013 Much of this is due to the grade crossing an 135th and the slow speeds at 149th. Some new construction would be able to fix both of them, and combined with deinterlining and improving Rogers Junction, you would see 15 trains per hour on both the 2 and 3 trains, enough for both northern ends.
Here's my plan
(2) Dyre Av - Flatbush Av
(3) Wakefield - Flatbush Av
(4) Woodlawn - New Lots via a new switch
(5) goodbye
also modify Jerome and we will get (4) trains to 30tph
From my perspective, extend the IRT Nostrand Avenue line, Utica Avenue Subway, and fix the Franklin Avenue bottleneck.
All of the other issues seemed to be pure foam.
Original plans for the Nostrand avenue line was supposed to go to Emmons Avenue but I think from my perspective if the Nostrand Avenue line either stops at Avenue u or Voorhees Avenue it'll have enough storage and space so the Rogers junction bottleneck will become few and far between.
Also I hope I'm alive to see the Utica Avenue line built where it can alleviate the b46 bus because it'll have stops all the way to Kings Plaza
@@christopherglover3829 damn
@@christopherglover3829 The Rogers Junction in it's current form and service pattern will still be a bottleneck regardless of any extension. That's why extensions of any subway line on the Brooklyn IRT would be impractical. Fix the bottlenecks first and you have extra train capacity for the subway extensions
@@TheRailLeaguer the Grand concourse junction and the Roger junction need to be redone.
This stuff is actually entertaining. Good vid
Hey transit talk what’s that app you use to see all the yards and hidden tracks and abandoned stations
I made a fictional extension of the 6 and 7 lines (in my head). 6 and 7 lines are extending into Brooklyn as the Flatbush Ave EXP/LCL lines. 6 to Kings Plaza - Avenue U as the Flatbush Avenue EXP and the 7 line extended to Spring Creek-Gateway Mall as the Flatbush Ave LCL turns left at the “Kings Hwy - Flatlands Avenue Station” then continues under Flatlands Avenue to Spring Creek-Gateway Mall. There’s a little flaw in my fictional lines as 6 and 7 lines will have to pass under or over or around already crowded areas for example Downtown Manhattan where it’ll have connections at Fulton Street, Wall Street, continue via the Gold street tunnel under Tillary Street where it’s first EXP station is in Brooklyn and head down along Flatbush Avenue where that avenue is already crowded with B,D,N,Q,R,2,3,4, and 5 tracks lol.
There will be a use for the lower level of Nevins street and Possibly rebuilding the Myrtle Avenue station but for the IRT Flatbush line.
There is another idea I have implementing 2 extra lines and extending one line to the north from the BMT Nassau Line.
The extension of the #6 line to CO-OP City was proposed since the late 60's when they started building that complex and even a "people mover" monorail was proposed. It may not matter now that the LIRR/Metro North East Side Connect will have a railroad station there for trips into Penn Station.
The (D) Train to CO-OP City was also proposed.
@@michaelmorales1475 But that would be very expensive
@@iNevaan Yup.
I think it still matters. An extended #6 will work wonders for coop city, because Pelham is so close to it, but worlds apart.
@@michaelmorales1475 It can still happen. But unfortunately, not in anyone lifetimes.
The 1 train, the way to improve the route is upgrade the signals and everything else with CBTC. The express service will have to wait for the new trains to roll in on the 1 and the tech cars will have features including the diamond variant which will be helpful otherwise use the 9 as half of he supplement to provide local service while the 1 does express service between 96 and 137. The MTA plans to rebuild the marble hill station to create a island platform between the middle track and 242 street bound track which eliminate the old platform and rearrange the track to install the new platform and underpass and stairways but as the yard and layups they'll have to make adjustments.
The 3 train, the link up to the Jerome avenue line would be nice but can't due to Yankee stadium so the connection may have to be done before 170 street but the 4 would have to run half the amount of trains on the middle track. Speaking of the middle track, it would have to be rebuild as a Passover between Fordham and before mosholu Pkwy and in addition, the Manhattan bound track would also have to be rebuild and create two Passover for yard access with Bedford park Blvd station to be rebuild into four track two island platform for the 3 to terminate and access the yard. The interlocking at 145 where the 2 and 3 split would also have to be rebuild with 145 street to be lengthen to accommodate ten cars.
The curve that the 5 train use to link between two levels at 149 street, I don't think the 5 can bypass it due to the complex area where the college and the metro north is build so I think a new diverge track should be build before the converging track that the 6 use on the upper level then build it to ramp under the existing tracks and create a converging track while another converging interlocking can be build south of 138 street, these new tracks to be build as a bilevel with the southbound on the upper level and the northbound on the lower level with two platforms connecting to the existing 138 street and connect to the the curve towards the 2 while eliminating the curve connecting the 4 above 138 street.
The curve at west farms on the 2 and 5 would require adjustments to the w Tremont Ave station for better accessibility and to give room to ease up on the curve to speed up service. The southbound platform at 14 street on the 4,5 and 6 would be lengthen to the modified interlocking east of the abandoned 18 street to eliminate the moving gap the same work that they on the northbound platform on the 6 at Bleeker.
The Rogers avenue junction, the rebuild would require three new tunnels and modified the interlockings for more flexibility and eliminate choking points which has to be done in two phases which is shelling tough and the change that will be made is the 2 and 3 swapping position with the 4 and 5 at Franklin otherwise they'll just do the deinterlacing sending the 3 to Flatbush Ave along with the 2 and the 5 will take the Utica avenue branch with the 8 train proposal and the 4 will serve New lots. The 2,3 and 5 will utilize 12 tph, the 8 is 6 to 8 tph and the 4 will run 20 tph.
For Rogers Junction, no need to rip up the whole street and rebuild the thing when simply installing two new switches between the junction and Nostrand Avenue station would be even better and allow even more trains per hour. Specifically you can have this pattern:
(2) (3) to Flatbush
(4) to New Lots via local east of Franklin
(5) to Utica Avenue via express
As for 149th Street, 5 train ridership to that station is pretty low (even with the college), so it wouldn’t hurt to have the trains bypass it. How? A new connecting track between the Jerome Avenue Line and the White Plains Road Line would be built. Starting north of 138th Street, the two new tracks would branch off from the Jerome Avenue Line and then shift from the Grand Concourse to operate under Park Avenue until about 149th Street. From there it would turn east and merge with the White Plains Road Line tracks just before the 3rd Avenue-149th Street. This new connecting track with the smoother curves would provide speed train service between Manhattan and the Bronx, allowing faster 5 train service between East 180th Street and 125th Street and eventually into Midtown and Lower Manhattan. 2 train service would be more consistent and faster with 5 trains no longer stopping at 149th Street-Grand Concourse at all.
@@TheRailLeaguer
Someday the elevated structures on the Jerome Avenue, White Plains Road and Pelham elevated lines all need to be replaced at some point since the MTA can't maintain them forever and that would require a lot of maintenance.
One suggestion. Before doing videos, when doing your research, do a visual reconnaissance of the areas.
Example. Talking about extending the #3 to the old 9th Ave line that entered the Bronx. Sedgwick and Anderson Avenues are only 2 or 3 short blocks away from each other. It may have been one stop with exits on each end. Also the train would go slightly up Jerome Ave turn onto 165th or 166th street before joining the #4 line at River Ave and 167th St.
The #6 extension would turn north and run parallel to I-95. I would extend it all the way to the far north end of Co-Op City
New Yankee Stadium took down the last vestige of the 9th Av El, though you can still see where the track went. They left the elevated trackway right up to where the new building is basically.
There still must be a way to rebuild the small part of the 9th avenue El, to connect with the stub-ended 3 train terminal....
as for the Roger’s junction southbound, why that bottleneck exists is due to private property where southbound local service have to bear left and merge with the 5 track then bear back to the right for the Nostrand Avenue line
The 4 to Broadway Junction and the down Utica Ave would be pretty game changing
Bloomberg came up with the 7 to Jersey plan. Before that Giuliani wanted to merge the Path train with the 7 line to send 7 trains to Jersey that way.
For the IND I got one idea. I heard that before the pandemic The F and M trains were gonna switch tubes with the M going down 63rd and F going down 53rd as a queens Blvd rider that would have been amazing for multiple reasons. #1 When a M and R train enters queens plaza one of them has to wait and if it’s the M (which it mostly is) the E train behind it would also be delayed. If the Tubes were switched E and F trains would not have to wait at queens plaza because there both express and there will be no more delays at queens plaza because E and F share express and will save a lot of time and M trains pop out of the local train at 36th #2 at 36th st F trains cut infront of E trains and E trains cut infront of E trains which is horrible for a express because one would have to wait if they both went down 53rd there would be less delays on express. #3 M trains will most likely become a 24 hour train running from forest hills 71 - to middle village metropolitan Ave all times or at least will run on past Delaney Essex on weekends so please cover this subject in the IND video
I've heard of that plan before, and it would've been a compromise for deinterlining.
@@TheRailLeaguer it would have been an amazing plan
@@Flash_Warn1ng Yeah, though I would’ve went straight with a somewhat partial deinterline plan and removed Broadway service on Queens Blvd entirely, and replace it with other rearranged service.
Long term, what I think should be done is hook up the local tracks of the Queens Blvd Line with an expanded Second Avenue Subway using a new East River Tunnel. I also recommend doing the Queens Bypass line for the 63rd Street Tunnel. With these projects, we can truly end all interlining, retain local and express service to Queens Plaza and even introduce new travel options for riders (direct East Side service for Queens Blvd riders).
@@TheRailLeaguer good idea
@@TransitTalkNYC Which causes train service to be not frequent outside of Manhattan. The three services are both operating 8 trains a piece per hour, forcing excess trains to go to 96th Street. Perhaps if we deinterline by sending all N and Q trains up Second Avenue and all R and W trains into Queens, we can have more frequent service on both lines, eliminating the need to send excess trains elsewhere.
I’ve been on the Jerome-Anderson station platform, and you cannot put new tracks there anymore. Yankee Stafium is in the way. I took pictures and all, even the tunnel is sealed up. Next I want to visit the Sedgwick Avenue station.
We need more coverage on the IRT extension to kings plaza
Facts i had a whole idea were I brought back the 9 so the 4 and 9 can run to kings plaza via Utica
@@Flash_Warn1ng nah lol the 9 is useless
@@kaamsogrimm it would have been Broadway express 7th Ave local Easter parkway local Utica Ave local it would have been a local service to the 4 which would run express
@@Flash_Warn1ng bruh do you know how much congestion is going to be on Eastern Parkway if you want the 2 3 and 9 on the same damn line?
Maybe the L train can meet the # 7 at the Javits Center. And cross over to NJ & head north.
Yes both trains can go to NJ
Yes
That's a good idea. Currently the #7 ends at 34th street Hudson Yards. The L train ends at 8th Ave. By expanding the L train upward it would work.
If you're suggesting having the 7 and the L sharing tracks, they can't do that. They have entirely different structure gauges meaning that the IRT is effectively isolated.
@@AVeryRandomPerson of course not 🤦🏿♂️
My thoughts: The Lenox Ave spur (145 and 148 Streets) should be a shuttle or be abandoned. The Lenox Ave Spur is extremely close to CPW so it doesn’t really matter. The 3 should be rerouted via Dyre Ave and White Plains Road, while the 5 is rerouted via Jerome Ave and a new Utica Ave Line. This removes the merge at 149th Street which even further increases the capability of the IRT, along with the Rogers/Nostrand Junction Rebuild (which I completely agree with). Since the provisions to the Utica Ave Line are off the local tracks, local trains east of Franklin Ave use the Utica Ave Line, while a new switch is needed to allow expresses to run to New Lots.
The 148th Street station serves a major apartment complex built right over the station and adjoining yard. 145th Street does as well. Leave them alone. It's a long walk up a steep hill to get from Lenox Avenue to the IND station at 145th Street.
@@pbatommy Maybe 2 trains should then be split between Dyre and Wakefield? The 149th Street interlocking was designed so that West Side Trains use West Farms and East Side Trains use Jerome. Even though a connection was built between the 2, that merge hinders max headways on the 2, 4, and 5. If we are to keep 148th Street, the 142nd Street interlocking should be grade-separated.
@@pbatommy I've walked from near the CPW Lines to the Lenox Ave Line, and yeah... better off taking the Bx19 or another crosstown Manhattan bus than walking that. Believe there's also a school near the 148th St station as well
@@TMC_BC Incorrect. Those connecting tracks were built when the Lexington Avenue mainline (the Jerome line) was built so trains from the West Farms line could go either down Lexington or 7th Avenues. Why should 2 line trains be split between Dyre Avenue and 241st Street? Your idea makes no sense. Try listening to someone who worked for the system. It's not broken, so don't fix it.
@@pbatommy I don’t know if you understand my point well enough. I’m trying to eliminate the reverse branching induced by the merge Lex and 7th Ave trains take on the West Farms Line west of Grand Concourse. Currently as of now, 2&5 trains can be scheduled at 11.5 trains per hour each, while 4 trains can only be scheduled at 13 trains per hour because the signals can only handle 30 trains per hour max. Those merges split service between 2 different sides of Manhattan which screws up riders who want service to a specific side. By segregating all Lex Ave Expresses to Jerome and 7th Ave Expresses to West Farms, riders have only a quick transfer as wait times will probably be ~2~ minutes only between trains on each line. This can be done all throughout the system, and the IRT is a great start.
How about a 125th/SAS 'Crosstown' connecting the 1-Bway, St.Nick, Lenox, Lex-MetNorth, 2ndAv, Randall's, Ditmars'BMT, DitmarsRikers, LaGuardia?
This is the proposed extension of the Second Ave line but even if they do it no one watching this will live to see it. :(
@@drakeil Yaya
Extending the 2nd avenue line along 125th street would be disastrous; an active fault line runs along there. A MUCH SAFER and SMARTER extension would be into the Bronx along 3rd avenue, to eventually go up to Co-op City to connect with the extended D train from 205th/Norwood.
Like the 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line between Gun hill road Clearmount Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx. Right after coming in and out the tunnel at 140 street the 8 Thrid Ave could definitely be digging under ground on Thrid Avenue in Manhattan to Battery park place or chatmam Square or south Ferry.
My thoughts for each service in the IRT:
(1) No change, possible northern extension to 261st.
(2) No change, but add a for White Plains Road Express.
(3) Deinterline by rerouting to Dyre Avenue and Nostrand Avenue, replace the (5).
(4) Reroute to New Lots Avenue via Eastern Parkway Local east of Franklin Avenue.
(5) Deinterline by rerouting to Jerome Avenue. Have them end at Crown Heights via Eastern Parkway Express.
(6) Convert Westchester Square to an express station, then run both services to/from Pelham Bay Park during rush hours.
(7) Build the 10th Avenue station.
(42nd St) No change.
You can build an (8) service to Throgs Neck via 3rd Avenue on the Pelham Local if wanted.
The most important addition is (Lenox Avenue) from 135th to 149th Lenox.
Love this video! Have you talked about the issue at Flatbush Ave. on the 2/5? Btw Franklin and Flatbush it always stalls btw stops bc there’s only two tracks. But if the IBX actually gets made, the Flatbush Ave. station can be extended to meet up with the IBX allowing for terminating trains at Flatbush to gtfo out of the way for incoming terminating trains
On the bit at the start about the 7, I think 7 congestion is one of those things that could be helped by the N. If they extend it to Laguardia, it should keep on going and cross the 7 somewhere. Either running south through Corona, having a junction at Citi Field(which offers a LIRR tranfer too for Port Washington, which I don't think is really needed but would offer some flexibility), or going under flushing bay to serve College point. If the 7 is extended east toward Queensboro college, maybe the N could swing south and serve Queens College before continuing to Jamaica Station. Or just head Northeast towards Beechhurst
The MTA is going to build 4 new Metro North stations in the Bronx on Amtrak’s. One of those stations will be in Co-op City. Metro North will stop in LIC and then will go to Penn Station!
They should still extend the D
Great video. I see your points where there could be improvements. The only one that is feasible with minimal costs would be an express service on the 1 line...possibly bringing the 9 back for rush hour duty only (6 sets total). The 9 could run between Rector St (using the South Ferry loop to return back uptown) and 238 Street (where they can lay and return back downtown). Have the 9 go express from 96th - 155th and then from Dyckman to 238th. They would have to put two switches south of 238th street to move trains from local to express track and vice versa.
Expanding the 3 will never happen. There's no way for the 3 to connect to the 4 using the abandoned stations since Yankee Stadium pretty much took out any room for the track to elevate from below ground. And the Putnam Bridge is not being converted back to rail use. Which would leave boring tunnels under the Harlem river while also not getting in the way of the existing 3 tracks from the B/D lines. Nope...don't see that.
The worst thing they did for the 4 line was make the Fordham Road station a local stop. Then again they probably didn't forsee how it would expand into a major street. It will be pretty hard to widen the station with the current layout.
The 2,3,4,5 switches at Rogers Junction in Brooklyn...yeah...they will have to completely re-engineer that considering the station layout coming/going Nostrand Avenue and how that affects express service. Good thing it's only rush hour 5s that causes the problems but it does slow down traffic should any trains be in either station or Franklin Avenue.
The 6 should be extended to Co-op City. No need for any express service past Parkchester. And what they're doing now works.
Would've been great to still have The 3rd Avenue EL / (8) Train in The Bronx.
I just like saying DA BRONX!
I’m trying to get the Bronx stations for the third Avenue elevated
@@TransitTalkNYC The 3rd Avenue elevated 8 lines is definitely needed. The BX 15 and the BX 41 buses cannot get there any faster.
Thank you so much for my opinion and understanding about the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line. A good thing they are still working on the second Avenue subway line a cross 125th Street connections To The Lexington Avenue line 4/5/6 7 th Avenue line 2/3 8 th Avenue line A/B/C/D trains. Last is 125th Street in the whole whild world is the 1 train.
Bring the 3rd Avenue elevated 8 line in the MTA program meetings please. People are complaining like crazy every sense they torn down the 3rd and 9th Avenue elevated line s in the Bronx.
wow the city should be watching these videos!
The 3 train can absorb the 2 train to the Bronx. and go Dyer Avenue on the 5 train at East 180 Street and replace the peak directions express 5 train during non-rush hours, and I don’t need 5 express trains.
Do some research, they're just about to open a HUGE new LIRR Station underneath Grand Central Station that they've been working on since 2008. That creates direct lines or transfers in Queens to another LIRR line instead of the Subway, or haveing to deal with the saga of getting between Penn Station and Grand Central Station via the Subway.
As I type this reply, the new Grand Central/Madison LIRR terminal is now a year old, and is doing great!
Dude, we Need a Train from Throggs Neck to Brooklyn
Here's my take. I think the 1 Line does need some sort of express service on Broadway above 96 and going to 137th is perfectly fine. Maybe add 4-6 tph peak direction and label it the 9 to have it run from Van Cortlandt to South Ferry via Broadway-7th Avenue Express (of course the the junction near Chambers would have to be improved) and short-turn 1 trains at 137th. I believe the Neried Ave bound 5 should start it's express service at Gun Hill Road instead to alleviate the chokehold at 180th from Dyre Avenue Bound 5 trains. The 4 express can definitely be improved from Bedford to 149th-GC. New junctions would need to be installed but that's fine trains can short-turn at Bedford. Have the 2/3 go to Nostrand and extended down to Sheepshead Bay/Avenue U with a better capacity flowing island platform. Have the 5 continue to run through Eastern Pkwy via express to Linden Blvd (a new stop beyond New Lots in the Livonia Yard) and the 4 running local after Franklin to curve south under Utica to Kings Plaza Shopping Center. The 6 is perfect fine the way it is. However, the interlockings between Parkchester and Castle Hill as well as before Pelham Bay can be improved. 7 Line doesn't necessary need an extension but instead have a new stop on 10th Avenue where the L train can curve north under 10th to extend to at leave 59th St or 72 St
Simple MNRR/LIRR RER via empire line and a deviation spur to serve 96th and GWB and a station transfer at 145th with new haven trains splitting at 34th to go to Hoboken into NJ while the Hudson and Harlem ones continue via penn as LIRR trains. The railroad becomes a de facto 1 express
i should think that d and the 4 lines in the Bronx should have a free transfer thing or just a tunnel to work to the 4 or B D station idk something like that
I'm pretty sure that given the distance between the two lines (which are a bit too close for the area density imo), a transfer between the two is unnecessary north of 161st Street.
yea but idk for the rest they should do the same like 161st
i wish there'd be an alternate option to 7 or just more 7. run it like monorails. running constantly.
The reason why the turns were so aggressive on the 2 and 5 is because of the 180th Street-Bronx Park spur
I live on the 1(215 St). It's SO MUCH BETTER than the A line in Upper Manhattan. An express would be great. It could run 55mph on that super straight track. Here's my idea:
242 St
231 St
225 St
Dyckman St
168 St
145 St
125 St
96 St
Local Service to Chambers St, then skips Cortlandt and Rector going right to South Ferry.
Still, the 1 is EXCELLENT anyway! It's fast in Upper Manhattan, even faster than the A "express" above 125, and then at 96 when the 1 turns slow you catch the 2/3 and they BULLET to Chambers, at 45-60 mph.
About the 3 train connect to king plaza or marine park maybe rockaway park Beach.
Another problem for the Red Rocket here is that 148th st is only an-island platform and the space around it is built up so if the MTA wants to still use 148th St as a terminus still that would be a problem because the only way into Lenox Yard is at 145th St unless they could make an extra stop between 155th and 148th st for a terminus and for Another Yard Entrance into Lenox
If they don't do the NJ extension, the 7 and the L should be extended to 23rd Street and 11th Avenue (Chelsea Piers), creating a connection between the 7 and L lines
Wouldn’t it be better to extend the L along 10th Avenue to up to 72nd Street, bringing in new service to the West Side. It could connect to the 7 at 42nd Street, and the long planned 10th Avenue stop would be finally constructed.
Definitely the Rogers Junction should be fixed. Excavate it! Rebuild it so the tracks don’t cross each other. I like having the 3 go to the Bronx. 1 express would get Columbia and City Coke pissed as the express would pass the entire University complex from 110th street-137th Street. I think you should cover to the Utica Avenue line!
Knowing the MTA’s history with Capital projects, the best option is to just add two new switches East of Nostrand Avenue and deinterline the whole thing. Leave the 2 train unchanged, send the 3 train to Flatbush, have the 4 train make local stops east of Franklin Avenue to New Lots Avenue (where trains are often terminating anyway, especially during weekend work), and have the 5 train run express to Utica Avenue. This ensures that passengers on the eastern end of Brooklyn see faster trips by getting express trains by default while riders on the 7th Avenue IRT would see more even service, reducing delays. Even with transferring, almost all passengers would save 5-10 minutes on their travel times overall.
I did hear that there was an original plan to extend the 2 and 5 trains to Sheepshead Bay but it never came to fruition
@@TransitTalkNYC it's weird there isnt a train by kings plaza. Im not 100% sure but i thought there're tracks near the plaza that the L could run on near livonia ave
Google "IND Second System"; you'll come up with TWO separate maps depicting ambitious expansion plans.
I've seen some plans that call straight up removing the Broadway-7th Avenue Line entirely in the Bronx, and replacing it with an extension of the (A) train along the old Putnam Line to 240th Street. However my plan would had this thing go up Broadway to 240th Street. The (1) train would've been cutback to 215th Street (to be rebuilt into a terminal stop).
The 3-train used to go to Flatbush Ave. back in the 1970s. Bring that back and it should alleviate the issues at Franklin Avenue.
So you’re suggesting that two new switches be installed between the junction and the Nostrand Avenue platform and implementing this pattern:
(2) (3) to Flatbush
(4) local east of Franklin Avenue to New Lots Avenue
(5) express to New Lots Avenue
If you’re referring to simply swapping the 2 and 3, it won’t really do anything to ease issues at Franklin Avenue, especially since during the time the 3 ran to Flatbush, alternating 4 trains were serving both Flatbush and Utica.
Maybe bring back the Third Avenue Line in the Bronx?
Definitely bring this 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back it's is worser over there they have the BX15/41/Bx 19 buses running like crazy between Gun hill road and 149 street 3rd it's not helping out the 2 5 trains at all. When they had the old 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line it really helped out the 2 5 trains sence they torn it down in 1973. Nothing cannot replace or take over the 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line anymore. I don't care how many buses they have running over there it cannot get there any faster than a train. They definitely need to bring this 8 3rd Avenue Elevated line back where it belongs Let it be a Elevated line structure which it don't have to make to much noises anymore just like they have the Air train and the 7 trains and the A train s at ozone park Queens.
DEFINITELY! It should be revived as an extension of the 2nd avenue line into the Bronx!!
Chances in the Boggie down south Bronx rebuild the brand new Thrid Avenue Elevated line in the south Bronx Clearmount Webster Boston road Bronx up to Gun hill road. Never elevated in Manhattan again. There's is a definitely studying on that. I have a real spriital feeling they are definitely gonna have two eights. One on the 7th Ave lines and the powder blue 🔵 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line I'm telling you. They could definitely use the 10 trains to replace the furmer 8 Thrid Ave Elevated line between Gun hill road and Batincal gardens Frordam plaza and Battery park place or chatmam Square or south Ferry or Queens plaza connecting to the 7 N W 11 trains
Eventually they are definitely gonna rebuild the brand new Thrid Avenue Elevated line back to south Bronx only. Never rebuild another elevated line in Manhattan again. The Thrid Avenue is definitely gonna run above ground in the south Bronx between Gun hill road Tremont Webster Boston road Bronx and under ground on Thrid Avenue I'm telling you. Including over the cross Bronx express highway just like the F elevated line in Brooklyn.
I look at the capacity map and currently there is
1 train 11 TPH
2 train 11 TPH
4 train 13 TPH
5 train 12 TPH
6 train 18 TPH
For the 1 train there’s nothing more you could really do at most I would say put CBTC on the 1 train line that would get you around 16 TPH on the 1 train.
The white plains road in total has 23 TPH.
149th Street junction where the 2 and 5 trains meet; 5 trains must negotiate a wicked S-curve between the 138th Street and 149th Street - Grand Concourse stations. The sharpness of the curve restricts the 5 train’s speed, which causes reduces capacity on the 2/4/5. The new alignment would remedy the bottleneck, The 5 train merge would be rebuilt so it would occur between Grand Concourse and 3rd Ave stations so that the curve of the tunnel would allow for much faster/smoother merges. Service on the White Plains Rd Line (2/5 trains) and to some extent the Jerome Avenue line would be sped up. This would allow for three more 5 trains to operate and two more 2/4 trains to operate. Bring it up to
5 train 15 TPH
2 train 13 TPH
4 train 15 TPH
The down side is that the 5 train no longer stops at 149th street grand Concourse but that’s fine cause 90% of riders are heading directly to Manhattan and Dyre Avenue or Nereid Avenue so it shouldn’t be a problem. Video proof ruclips.net/video/s3Gyda6JZc8/видео.html as you could see in the video with the rush hour Utica Avenue bound 5 train only like two people got off the station so if anything people would be satisfied that they would skip a station.
The 6 train is pretty unique for having a diamond train which speeds up service and it doesn’t merge with any trains routes. But on the Pelham Line the peak express trains switching between express and local tracks delays trains behind them and reduces the overall capacity of the line. Currently during weekday peak way direction Local trains start/end at Parkchester station. I propose converting Westchester Sq station into an express stop and extending Local 6 trains to terminate there and go directly into the yard.
This would allow for three more 6 trains to run bring it up to
6 train 21 TPH
Finally to install CBTC on all Bronx IRT lines
The white plains road line should get CBTC first which will increase the TPH to
2 train 17 TPH
5 train 19 TPH
Overall White Plains Road 36 TPH
The Pelham line should be next the 6 train TPH would increase to
6 train 26 TPH
And finally the Jerome Avenue line
The 4 train TPH would be increase to
4 train 20 TPH.
For Roger Junctions the only solution is to totally rebuild Rogers Avenue into a flying junction like the one south of 59th Street Columbus Circle. By rebuilding the junction 2/3/4/5 trains will be able to serve any combination of terminals, and handle 56 TPH. For example, 2/3 to Flatbush 4 to Utica 5 to New Lots. Or 4/5 to Flatbush 2 to Utica 3 to New Lots. I prefer the current routings as they are very helpful in terms of one seat rides accesses and will be even more effective when roger junction is fixed. And there that’s how ya improve the IRT Mainline
The Bronx kinda ok
Brooklyn: The idea of ripping up Eastern Parkway, causing existing service to be limited for years, at a cost of over a billion dollars just so some people in Flatbush and New Lots can save an extra minute of their lives for a one seat ride is a joke when adding a couple of switches and deinterlining the line can be done for a fraction of the cost
@@gabepl2986 Then you piss off all Nostrand Avenue riders trying to get to the Lexington Avenue line and all East New York riders trying to get to the 7th Avenue line which is why deinterlining won’t work here.
Nevermind the fact that trains would probably come more frequently forcing people to all of a suddenly transfer is a horrendously unpopular idea no matter what form you put it in.
Same reason why deinterlining is extremely unlikely to happen in general, you need to provide routes that people want in order to make commuters happy.
In the early 2000s the 3 train was expanded to 10 cars to allow more passengers to arrive
The 5 train extended to Flatbush Avenue all weekday in 2009 to reduce the amount of passengers transferring at Franklin Av outside of the rush.
deinterlining screws over commuters and overwhelm all four routes negating any time savings gained in removing the additional merges.
Further more the 3 train will be cut off from the livonia yard which is WHY THE 2/3 SWAPPED southern terminals in the 1980s.
Do what’s most effective not what’s cheapest
@@Amiri_Francis People can be pretty hard to satisfy. Seriously why are one seat so sacred. What the problem with a single transfer
And doesn’t the (3) have the Lenox Yard for storing trains during the off hours? Some trains could be stored there during overnight and trains go to East 180th Street Yard or Livonia yard during the low ridership times.
@@gabepl2986 But now you have the issue of the MTA now having to pay Crews more time to deadhead those trains to yards. People will already resist having to make forced transfers. Now throw in a yard and opposition increases. Trust me, the MTA will find a way to minimize costs. Best bet keep Roger Junction the same currenct routes. Remember the 1980s changes were made to reduce non-revenue subway car mileage, to provide a dedicated fleet for each service, and to provide an easily accessible inspection yard for each service. The change allowed the 2 to be dedicated to 239th Street Yard and allowed the 3 to be assigned to Livonia Yard.
@@Amiri_Francis How deinterlining increases capacity
59 st/Columbus Circle should be an express stop. It's a pain if you're on the 2/3 and want to transfer to A/C or B/D - right now you can't do that directly.
The stop is a local station not only because the IRT station existing before the IND, but also for some crowd control. Not to mention that you can transfer between the 2, 3, A, B, C, and D lines at Times Square-42nd Street or just use the 1 train to get to Times Square.
@@TheRailLeaguer The B and D don't stop at Times Square.
@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 They stop at Bryant Park, which is now connected to Times Square via the new shuttle passageway and the existing 7 train. In addition, the B and D are a faster alternative to Brooklyn compared to the 2 and 3 lines and the A and C serves the same areas as well so it’s not needed.
I read that it's designed that way because when the line was built there wasn't much around Columbus Circle. So we suffer today because of how the city was over 100 years ago!!
Really good stuff. Luv the map you're using for your videos. How can I get one?
The # 7 train to Secaucus NJ, why u asked. The Hudson Yards mega developments, with maybe an expansion of the L train west & north to Hudson Yards. A mixed-use a commercial, cultural, entertainment & residential.
Moving the Port Authority Bus Terminal to Secaucus, NJ, for office space in Mid-town NYC!
at franklin, in my opinion there should be a switch from local to express from eastern parkway bklyn museum and franklin so the 3 and 4 go on the express track and the 2 and 5 go on the local track but the small section for the local service to go straight to president without going on the 3 line should be a thing too to kinda make this option a better one
That’s a great idea but something I’ve noticed is that the local and express tracks comes into the station from different levels so I think it would be hard to make a switch
That won’t work since it would introduce more track sharing rather than eliminate it. It’s more cost effective to have the new switches be built west of Nostrand Avenue between the platform and the junction and have all 2 and 3 trains to Flatbush and all 4 and 5 trains going to Utica Avenue and New Lots Avenue.
@@leeka2793 actually in 47th-50th at station on the southbound side, the F and M are on the express track while the B and D are on the local track and when they go to 42nd st Bryant park they switch tracks. Maybe the good thing to do is make the 5 run local in Brooklyn and the 3 express and that way the 2 and 5 can go to president st quickly. As of now after Franklin Ave on the 2-3-4-5 affects all trains, if the 5 and the 2 or 3 leave at the same time, one of them will need to wait and if it’s the 5 then it affects the 4 because if there is a 4 train right behind (The 4 and 5 run like 2 mins apart from each other) that 4 could be held until the 5 proceeds
I knew just by the way the structure of the tracks by 161st station are that a train used to use those lower scaffolding. Everytime I drive by it I wondered what train ran there
That was the old Polo Ground line
Wondered that when I was a child in the 90's when Yankee stadium was in its original location and the race track across the street. I understand years ago why MTA wouldn't reuse those stations as that would involve building bridge to cross the east river which city officials would want to avoid.
That area by Yankee stadium is no more, sadly. I was thinking about using the location for a the setting of a book, but as far as my onsite investigations led, I couldn't find the tunnel entrance. I think it was buried over when they rebuilt the stadium
The best way to eliminate the rogers ave junction mess would be to cut the southbound express from crossing over to southbound local---meaning 4 & 5 trains would run exp to Utica and 2 & 3 trains local to Flatbush---the northbound tracks from Flatbush would have to descend under the 4 & 5 express tracks & rise up & connect to the Northbound local tracks---yes it will be a headache for commuters but my opinion this is the only way to permanently fix the issue
It’s actually easier to install two new switches between the express and local tracks between the Nostrand Avenue platform and the Rogers Avenue Junction to make deinterlining easier.
With the 1-line, the best thing you can do is bring back skip-stop service for the rush hour! I don't think express service will be too feasible - you'll have bottle necks where the middle tracks end IMO.
1 is a local service -- deal with it.
It would have to be labeled as a special express service, not a frequent one. So passengers using it will know the time such a service will exist. 3 or 5 trains in the morning and evening rush. It would have to be timed that it would not interfere with local service. Then they can even go as far as running it as an express pass 96th Street, as if it becomes local after this, the service might be looked at as being useless.
It would at least be advertised as a one seat ride to South Ferry.
People who will ride this train would be former transfer passengers to the "A" 168th Street station. But it would do nothing for people currently using the "A" north of 168th Street (or 168th Street) if they heading downtown. The Broadway Line does have the advantage of having stations in more populated areas north of 168th Street. So discouraging some of these people from a 168th Street "A" transfer might actually work. But the "A" still have more superior transfers down the line than the westside IRT. Especially if you considering the "D" line. But if passengers are heading towards Times Square, than that might be enough of a game changer. The BMT Broadway has the best transfers than every line in Manhattan.
However, it is very hard to beat a train that skips 125th Street or 59th Street. Although the speed could be better, it still a straight away.
Broadway becomes curvy after about 72nd Street. But IRT uses shorter and less weighted cars, so there acceleration and speed is better.
But because of the infrastructure for express requires slower speeds. Not unless it is a special service that skips 168th Street to 96th, 72,42,34,14 and Chambers Street into South Ferry, it is a no go.
People want a train that is reliable and consistent. So a 137th Street stop would have to be only. No smart planner is going to recommend switching an express off of it route to than be brought back on the express track. It would reduce any real time savings. Because this train again has to switch back to the local track and than to the 2/3 express track to continue on.
@@qolspony that won’t work well
@@qjtvaddict Yeah. It's too complicated 🤪
Eastern Parkway originally ran down what is the beginning of Pitkin Ave, but they turned it north and that why past that point Eastern Parkway is known as E.P extension. The 4 was supposed to run down pitkin but it never came in existence
One way to make 1 express happen is MNRR/LIRR RER via the old Putnam route going across and linking to express and local tracks of both the new haven and Harlem lines at Wakefield and Woodlawn with linking stations at marble hill or 238th then 207, GWB181, 145th build an inter change with the 1 at these stations then the RER trains use the empire line to 96th via a deviation to get to a transfer station closer to 96th street for easier links to the 1/2/3 trains then trains return to LIRR via penn station some of the RER trains merge into the Hudson line combined frequency on this RER de facto express would be high and allow for minimal investment however the current express track north of 96th would be rendered redundant.
Another comment from me. Whoever said that they should extend the #7 line from the Hudson Yards station into New Jersey, that's a more difficult situation. Because that would mean the Port Authority would have to get involved, or New Jersey Transit has to get involved. That's the only way this would work. Another PATH station line because of the Hudson River Crossings is their jurisdiction.
Also, NYC DOT or MTA of NY State would have to negotiate an agreement to have the #7 be allowed to enter the State of NJ depending on where the other station will be built, so it's not as easy as you think. The only example I can give you is the commuter railroads that both NJ Transit & the MTA have with their Main/Bergen County Line & Pascack Valley Line.
Rockland County, NY is west of the Hudson and is connected to NJ. So to help with those towns in Rockland County and others north of it those agreements are good as these trains will end in Hoboken. The only time an NJ Transit train is allowed to go into any NY State Counties is when there is an MTA Train car & MTA Train engine. connected it to it.
Having lived in Fair Lawn & within walking distance to the Radburn Station, I would see this all the time either waiting for the train or when I was in Hoboken trying to get back to my apartment. Once the Main Line or Bergen Line train leaves the Mahwah Station for Suffern, NY it then changes to the Port Jervis Line for MTA Purposes & Pascack Valley remains for the trains going to NY as there are only three stations after crossing the State Border.
So that is your information folks.
Joint rolling stock purchase
Why not build. Station on the 2/3 at 103 street with a transfer to the B/C? Seems like a great way to add connectivity.
I feel like the 3 train should be extended to the Bronx along the 4 line
In my head the 2,3,4,5 would of all met up at 138 st-grand concourse traveled to 161 st yankee Stadium with the 4,5 going express and the 2,3 making stops at 149 st- grand concourse and a 155 st station at 161 st there would be a transfer to the B and D , metro north and the bx6 select bus then the 3 would travel up Jerome ave up to Fordham road and maybe branch off going to river dale 263rd street
People complained enough when D ran as a peak-express on game days. So uptown D would leave 145th on the express, skip 155th then switch to the local just south of 161st. It’ll run local at 161st and sometime 167th; after 167th, it would continue its express service to Fordham Rd. That personally annoyed me.
EDIT: Cuomo wanted the 7 to go to NJ.
NJ? Jeez there going too fast! How about getting the subway to most parts of NYC like Half of queens and Staten island before you expand into other municipalities.
@@TheStarswearee PATH are you challenging me?😊
The BMT is no rip off of the IRT, for one the BRT was created first. The BRT is the same company as the BMT. The BRT formed 1896, the IRT formed 1902. My timeline video explains all of this. Even the oldest sections of the subway still remain in service on the BMT- the BMT Lexington Avenue el (Gates Avenue-Cypress Hills). Aswell as a section of the “D” from the 1860s.
The BMT Lexington Ave Line was an El in Brooklyn, today's Lexington Ave is an IRT construction.
@@AVeryRandomPerson The BMT Lexington Avenue line still operates. The region of the “J” line from Cypress Hills through Gates Avenue is part of the BMT Lexington Avenue elevated. There is a reason that section of the “Jamaica El” opened before the BRT and IRT existed. It is not really the Jamaica “el” it is the Lexington Avenue “el”.
The 1 express stops are horrible except maybe 168th Street. It merges at the wrong place and skips the most populated stations. If they implement this (which I don't think they would do) it would have to run as a special express service. But it would do more harm than go. It basically would take passengers from 168th Street and drop them off at 96th Street. Passengers better hope the next express is the #3 as that particular train has room from those additional passengers who would have used the "A".
But the "A" runs very frequently from 207th into Brooklyn. That's because they are three branches. And that 168th Street IRT station does require an elevator reducing any real time savings.
The IRT is superior north of 168th Street though, but even than that is not enough of a benefit over the "A" that skips from 125th Street or 59th Street. You can also connect to the B/D and than E/F. So transfers on this line is more superior.
Meanwhile the IRT gives your best transfer at Times Square with the #7 and the Broadway BMT (N/Q/R/W) give your best transfer south of that station. The westside IRT offers the worse transfers outside Fulton Street.
So when you add all these disadvantages, the "A" comes out ahead by a mile.
And besides, they didn't make a song for the "A" train by accident. It just get the job DONE!
I wanna see the 6 train go to South Ferry. There should be a transfer point between the 1 and the 6.
The 6 used to go to South Ferry, at least during the off-peak hours, but ridership was so low to the point where the entire stop was closed for Lexington Avenue Trains. Since then, 5 trains have terminated at Bowling Green, which is actually a short walk from South Ferry anyway, with trains turning around at South Ferry without any passengers.
You don't need a transfer between the 1 and 6.
I would love if the D train got extended to Co-op City/Bay Plaza under Burke Avenue then merge right into Gun Hill Road and merge left onto Bartow Avenue. Last stop would be Co-op City Blvd
Let the 6 trains to be extended to co op city mall . Because at night people be coming from work and home other places as well.
@@leecornwell1062 Both should be extended to Co-op City.
@@TheRailLeaguer You mean the D/6 trains to co op city mall it's gonna be worked out some where down the line. I'm telling you. The same thing for the old 8 3rd Avenue elevated line. They been started to build the second Avenue line. They haven't decide yet if the Q/T trains to run a cross 125 Street to connect to the Broadway 1 line .
@@leecornwell1062 Oh yeah. Ridership on the Bx12 and Bx28 heading out of Co-op City is so high that it needs two services over there.
@@TheRailLeaguer it's gonna happen i could tell you that now. And the 3rd avenue Elevated line to. A millions of people are screening out loud for this 3rd Avenue elevated line to come back.
The IRT 180th Bronx Park Station was on Boston Rd and Bronx Park South… right next to the park and the Bronx Zoo. It was not right next to the modern day E180th 2/5 station. That was another line that went to Boston and was part of the modern day IRT Dyre 5 train. The trains going to Bronx Park South left 177th (tremont) and went straight up to 180th and Bronx Park South. I’ve only seen 1 picture of that station.
@@TransitTalkNYC it’s all good!! I love your videos!
If you didn’t know one R142 1 train went Fully express (7 Avenue and Broadway Express) Mr.Railfan has the program I think, some 1 trains go Broadway express
I'm pretty sure the 7 extension to Secaucus Junction was a Bloomberg admin idea.
Hey, would love to hear your thoughts on extension of 2/5 line from Flatbush/Brooklyn College further south to Kings Plaza or Sheepshead Bay.
The 2/5 to Kings Plaza should be a no-brainer. Instead, the MTA spends over $1.5B on 3 subway stations that are over glorified in design.
7 train to New Jersey has been floating around since minimum the 1980s. If sent to Hoboken or Secaucus Junction would be awesome.
The L should be sent to Hoboken honestly, 7 platforms are already too crowded
@@peskypigeonxWhy not both be sent to NJ. The L can be extended north via 10th Avenue to 72nd Street then continue west into NJ to American Dream Meadowlands and to Rutherford. The 7 would be extended to Secaucus Junction. This should ease congestion at the Port Authority Bus Terminal.
The 3 it’s fine going to New Lots because it needs to access the Livonia yard
I agree the 4 train should go to Broadway junction
If you're interested on a potential 7 line to NJ, here's how that went last time:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension
Wow that track map is awesome
The Pelham 6 line is gonna wind up being extended to co op city im telling you.
Maybe they could extend the 4 train to broadway junction. It's crowded over there anyway
U used to can see the tracks ask the downtown train pulls in from 167st to 161 st station
Why not send the 3 line as an express train on the Jerome Avenue Line. It can go during limited rush-hour from 149st GC to it’s terminal at Burnside Avenue. skipping 161, 167, 170, Mt Eden Avenue and 176.
A connection between the existing Lenox Avenue Line at 148th Street and the existing Jerome Avenue Line has been bought up quite a number of times (including from me at one point) but it’s been shot down due to another interline and merge point added on the already delay-prone IRT.
If anything, you can just route the 3 route via University Avenue (this is something I have planned as part of a new 4-track trunk line with the 4 train). This can also be done with a bunch of new projects, such as a new Harlem River Tunnel to eliminate that grade crossings, fixing the junction with the 5 trains to speed service and avoid unnecessary redundancy at 149th Street-Grand Concourse, and more.
@@TheRailLeaguer
Does your plan include replacing the elevated White Plains and Pelham lines
Bring the 10 trains to throggs neck and new Lots Avenue Brooklyn or the gateway terminal Brooklyn.
The 7 train idea was between the mayors and Chris Christie! It was a real thing !!!
On the "4," wasn't the express stretch from 167 to Burnside actually part of the same Ninth Avenue El you mentioned earlier -- the line with the stops at Sedgwick and Anderson-Jerome?
I think it only ran to 167th. I renebe the old blue "INTERBOROUGH RAPID TRANSIT COMPANY"signs that read "167th ST For 6TH and 9th ELEVATED LINES" when I was a kid. Those signs lasted into the early 90's.
Extend the D to Co-Op City. It can double as a Cross Bronx line. Or just extend the 6. Or do both.
The 6 to Co Op City isn't feasible just because it's above ground. It would have to go across 3 highways and where would the station be? U have the Bay plaza mall.
@@coolboss999 Actually that is pretty feasible. There’s room for an elevated line (extending the Pelham Line to Co-op City dates back to 1968).
Can the landfill along Gun Hill Rd support ‘D’ service from 205 St? Are country club, city island, Pelham gardens ready for highway traffic just for 6 service above the Bruckner to Barton Bay Plaza?
@@BlimpCityFeeder The answer to both of those questions is yes. Also, all three locations are nowhere near the 6 train, especially Country Club.
@@BlimpCityFeeder What landfill on gun Hill Road bro. There is none wtf 😊
The 3 and 4 trains could also at least share a fleet just like the 2 and 5 trains as all of them working together