Hunting Freshly Bulldozed Central Mine in Michigan's Keweenaw Peninsula
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Sam and I went out in search of copper and greenstones (chlorastrolite). We found some of each and had fun playing with them when we got home.
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Thank you for teaching me so much. I learn quite a bit from you and Sam.
You're welcome!
Wow, that patina happened fast! Pretty cool chemistry problem. I hope you'll show us further developments. Thanks Rob and Sam
We'll see how it goes. Hopefully we'll have something to show off.
Patina forms alot faster than they say it does. 1 year and some copper I have is full of patina. And thats just 1 year.
Great effort. I’m always just a little bit smarter after watching you guys work. Thanks!
Cool, copper. The gems are awesome😊
Awesome stuff! Super jealous with those Greenstones. Good job, loved the safety crocs. Messing up is another part of learning.
I have learned a lot by messing up. It sticks with me longer when I see it for myself rather than just having someone tell me.
Tactile or kinesthetic learning works best for me. Most schools have figured out that this also works well with students that have ADD, ADHD, and dyslexia, etc. 😊
Very beautiful finds Rob and Sam
Awesome job, that looked like fun
Before I could afford a metal detector we would just smash rocks that looked promising until we saw copper or they cracked but clung together. Then we would put them in a plastic bucket and add water and The Works toilet cleaner to cover {maybe 3-4:1 water to works) overnight. Nice, pink copper in the morning. Salt and vinegar will spruce any tarnish on copper as long as you rinse after dipping.
Thanks for those tips! We're going to keep trying to get it looking good. We're going to start a tumbler barrel with some this weekend to see what happens there. I'm hoping that the rock will wear away, leaving the copper behind. I know that copper does not cut well on a diamond saw. It just sort of smears instead of grinding like rock does. I'm hoping the same thing happens in the tumbler.
Looking at acid. I wonder if they used hydrochloric acid in the 80s when we did this. hydrochloric would dissolve the basalt and not tarnish or oxidize the copper.
@@BigYooper906 Muriatic acid is the same as hydrochloric acid. It doesn't dissolve basalt, but does dissolve calcite.
Cool experience! ❤
Muriatic acid does put copper in solution. I use it to dissolve base metals when I am recovering and refining gold from boards
My great grandpa was killed in the Victoria copper mine in Rockland. This was in around 1912. His candle light on his head blew out after he set a charge and couldn't find the escape ladder. He was a Finnish immigrant and my grandma was only a toddler when this happened.
That's awful.
That was a tough life.😢
@@littledabwilldoya9717 My great grandfather was working that mine in those days I have his old carbide headlight yet he died from the bad air in the mines. They had it tough in them days. They had caged birds in the mine . If they died they knew enough to get out of the mines.
@@greatnorthernviews3052 Yes, they were a very determined, strong lot. I always wondered where they got the birds...Awful way to make a living! I’m sure all the parties involved wondered if they would make it home safely each night. I’m sure the women waited, dreading a knock on the door. It would be as bad as having a son in the Army during wartime.🙁
I’m sure his greatest fear had come true.👩🔬I couldn’t do that- too claustrophobic !
Fun video! Sam needs to get some micro mounts 😊
He has the eyes for those! I think I mentioned those to him, but we didn't discuss it much. Sure would cut down on storage space!
So awesome! Its crazy how its actually like a bendable sheet in the matrix rock. Cant wait to see some of it polished or tumbled 🎉
We still haven't thrown it in the tumbler. We were going to last week, but Sam spent the whole evening trying to polish some more greenstones. None of them turned out, either.
With the copper, I found at Cliff Mine I just cleaned it with a toothbrush and baking soda, and vinegar. It shined up and has stayed that way.
That seems too good to be true. Easy enough to try it. Thanks!
@20:12 Way to go Sam! That's a lovely specimen and you brought out the beauty in it. Totally worth the loss of your fingernails.
As for the copper, it will oxidize extremely quickly once it's removed from the acid and exposed to oxygen. The bright pink color will fade right before your eyes. Hot vinegar should take that green patina off and you can immediately dunk it into some oil to preserve the brightness a bit. I believe the specimens they sell at "Prospector's Paradise" have been spray-coated in some kind of enamel before they get the chance to fade.
I personally love copper patinas. As a fun follow-up science experiment you can try some "forced patina" techniques to create several different kinds of patina--each having a distinct color.
Thanks for the fantastic video! Loved it!
Sam watched your video before we left so he could learn to identify greenstones. Looked like it worked! You might have recognized that last greenstone too!
We are going to play around with the copper some more when we get a chance. I think we might start some in a rock tumbler today just to see what happens. Thanks for the tips on the copper!
I enjoyed this. Interesting to see copper in its various natural forms.
Normally to break out greenstone and thomsonite I lay the rock on a hard surface like another huge rock and hit it with a mini sledge on the matrix around the stones and most of the time they do fall out but they can break and get cracks to. If it's a bigger greenstone or thomsonite I'm afraid I will break I do try to cut those out or grind them out. I see a nice batch of greenstone you's have found. I think that place has good greenstone in it. I've not tried to find copper yet.
Thanks for the tips, James!
"We can also try acid when we get home..."
Nice!
Not that kind of acid.
I finally got a good metal detector. Can’t wait to get up there to use it. My daughter found a gold ring in a park near my house. I found a lot of copper up there by just looking for it up by Lake Linden Michigan.
Do you look in the tailings piles or just out in the woods? I'd love to find a piece of float copper some day.
@@MichiganRocks just in my grandpas old woods
The whole process from collecting to cleaning was interesting to watch. Nice specimens👍👍
Greetings from Germany ☺️👋🏻
Hi from Michigan, USA!
Mix together one-quarter cup salt and one-quarter cup flour, then add enough vinegar to make a thick paste. Rub that paste on the copper surface and gently buff it using a microfiber cloth until it shines; wash and dry thoroughly.
Don't think there's a way to buff these, the copper looks very sharp and jaggered. The microfiber would just catch and probably pull the thinkln/brittle copper apart.
@@googleuser859 You cant polish the little sharp bits but the rest can be done.
I'm also doubtful that would work on such holey, jagged copper. We might try it on some flatter pieces though.
@@MichiganRocks Maybe use a metal wire brush...if you can find a finer bristled steel brush would be ideal...but then again, I've never tried that on raw copper myself. My guess is also that since it's raw and jagged it's actually more easily exposed to oxidate. Maybe you could also clean it with something like Simichrome or Brasso using a stiff plastic bristle brush. If you try that I'd soak in a light acid(vinegar)just to remove the patina first, then polish before it oxidizes.
@@jarlsoars1150 I got some good tips via email from someone who has experience. We need to buy a different type of acid first.
Picked up a flat of native copper from a rock hounds collection from an online auction. All from the U.P. The funniest one I got was the “yellow” copper chunk.
What is yellow copper? There are well know huge copper mines up there. Looking at an old map that has mines, there are about 18 tiny mines. 12 of them are silver mines and six gold mines. All tiny. The Rick hound must have gone over one of those old gold mines, picked up a native yellow copper specimen.
Paid less than $17.50 fir the lot. I’m pretty sure the yellow copper one is worth way more than that.
Yes, I think you lucked out on the yellow copper purchase for $17.50. I think that's worth over $2000 per ounce.
My husband worked road construction around Ontonagon one summer, and I went up to visit him for our anniversary. Local told him of a good place to go for nice scenery. Sent us to a bluff that overlooked this valley that was just beautiful with fall colors, and dotted with evergreens. I found quite a few pieces of quartz with copper in it just on the two track up there. Could’ve stayed there for days! I don’t know where those rocks are today, but it was a great weekend\anniversary!❤😊
Sounds like a nice anniversary!
Buffing wheel for the shine 😊
That would work for flat pieces, but not for the naturally shaped ones after dissolving the calcite. Those are very rough.
well that was different. It is cool how the copper looks like it is frozen in a splatter shape. Hey, I don't think he found more agates then you on this trip! Great video, thanks for sharing!
That's true! I never even thought to be thankful for that.
This stuff is my nemesis. I have buckets full of it. I have spent at least a year tumbling the 1 batch. Yes I now have big copper tumbled balls but the host rock takes forever to remove. To keep the copper shiny I use a toothbrush and BarKeepers Friend cleaner. It works amazing for me. I definitely could use some advice on how to get the host rock off faster!!! I find that I get a great shine on my copper with the Barkeepers Friend cream.
Thanks for the tips, Molly. Sam and I are going to try tumbling some too.
That looks like my kind of place to look for rocks! I dont know how to make them look like a shiny penny. Wonder if something along the lines of electropolshing would work? We do stainless at work. The racks have copper clips to hold the parts. They are also shinny when they have many parts run over a shift. The acid we use is formulated for stainless, but i would assume there is a formula that could be used for copper. Let me ponder this.
Cheers from the 920 of Wisconsin
I have gotten some good ideas already. I have to order a different kind of acid to try it out.
My chemistry teacher always said "remember the three A's...always add acid"
Another good way to remember! I like my almost sort of rhyming one better though. I never know whether to mispronounce "water" or "oughta".
That's a beautiful greenstone!
👁👁 love copper…🫶🏼
Happy to drop by….
Finding stones like this is very cool.
Never seen native copper before. I have read about huge boulders of native copper that came out of mines from this area and I know they had to carve them up to remove them from the mine. That chisel fragment was a very nice find.
Apparently that type of mining was very difficult. Those big blobs of copper were very hard to remove.
HI ROB FIND THEM ROCK'S BRO G.L.H.H. HOPE YOU BOTH FIND SOMETHING WORTH COLLECTING 👍👋🤣
Fascinating video! Thanks, Rob. I especially loved the close-ups at 13:38.
You've got to look pretty close up to see those little guys.
Copper minerals are the best !
Yay!
🐞I just watched a RUclips video on “Rock&Lap. This guy built his own vibratory tumbler. I instantly thought of you. Enjoy. 🐞
I think I saw that one.
You should definitely leave that patina on some of those specimens. Its a beautiful color! Looking forward to the tumbling video.
I think we're going to start the tumble today or tomorrow.
I'm surprised. There's chrysocolla/malachite all over here but I've never found native copper, even tho this state is/was known as the copper mining capital . The polished stones are pretty. Nice job with the muriatic acid.
You don't have big chunks of malachite, do you? There is malachite in the Keweenaw Peninsula, but it's just little tiny stuff, not the big stuff you see from other places.
@@MichiganRocks I do, but I purchased them. I've found little pieces, too. The big stuff is underground.
Hey. Can you find petoskey rocks Stones in every country. I here Think about Denmark. They are very beautiful 🌞
No, they are not in every country.
Ive read that a dip in chromic acid will leave a thin layer of chromium on the surface which keeps fresh shiny copper faces shiny like after polishing. I have some but i havent tried it yet because its a really nasty chemical.
Also i think they say too long and/or didnt get neutralized well or soon enough. they need to go straight into baking soda solution (i havent tried adding lye yet, but i suspect that could give favorable results) the minute its done in the acid (dont let it sit). all that green is dissolved copper, mostly from the patina dissolving, but several days soaking wasnt too kind.
I'm also concerned about some of the more nasty chemicals that I've read about. Muriatic acid is bad enough. I do think we left it in the acid way too long. We were trying to dissolve all the calcite on that big piece, but the others could have come out a lot sooner.
@@MichiganRocks Muriatic at least will evaporate and can be neutralized into salt which can be tossed or drained. Its pretty low on the list of nasties. it will make any steel nearby rust which can be annoying.
@@TheIdeanator I keep the bucket outside for the rust reason. My vehicles don't need any help there, the salt on the roads in winter is bad enough.
Glad you found at least some greenstones.
They were tiny, but that one wasn't too bad. Sam spent several hours on those.
I have some I collected 40 years ago. I guess it is time I try polishing one or two. 🙂
True Greenstones do tend to be small- they were formed by volcanic lava bubbles LONG ago. Isn’t that crazy?!? Hard to imagine!😅
That greenstone is really nice. Love the copper also.
You have to neutralize the acid with baking soda if you want to keep that copper color
That's what we figured. Next time we'll do that.
@@MichiganRocks although the green color does look pretty cool
Copper, silver and green stones can all be found there.
We found two out of three!
I’m surprised with the amount of copper in there they’ve stopped mining it. Guess the processing costs are too high, sure seems to be a lot though. What’s your giveaway for epidote? I’m fairly certain I come across it quite often but, just not positive. Looks like another fun day!
I just go by the color. I can recognize it on the beach pretty reliably, I think. I'm not 100% sure that was epidote I found at the mine, but the color looked right to me.
Such fun
Très intéressant ! 🙂
Great information for others, learning is trial and error. Cool patina though!
I must have missed your invitation or call to go up with you two 🤔What month did you go? I know it's cold up there, but you're both bundled up.
Yeah, I let it ring and ring, but you never picked up. I figured you were screening your calls. This was recording in the middle of May.
@@MichiganRocks I'm allllways scanning them. Leave a voicemail next time! Tell sam to make his greenstone into a pendant. It's so pretty.
My girlfriend and I just left the Keeweenaw looking for copper, agates, prehnite, chlorastrlite, datolites etc. I joked about the possibility of running into you guys. We’ve found with the acid, less is more. I’ve got better results by only soaking for short period of time. No more than an hour or so. That and drying the copper asap to slow the oxidation. It will still oxidize a bit but not like it would if you put it away wet. There are various fixants that can be applied to the copper as well but I’m not as familiar with those.
I know there are good methods do to this, but we haven't researched them much and just thought we'd try what I had around the house.
The only other advice I can give, which comes from a buddy of mine who has polished “smalls” on a cabbing wheel, like your chlorastrolites is to use bamboo skewers as dop sticks to save on your fingers.
@@thenotoriousp.a.t.5440 I mentioned dopping them to Sam and he said he'd rather do them without. Thanks for the skewer idea.
Excellent stuff! I thought only the Cliff piles were fair game. Hoping now to hit the Central too in August. Maybe slice your largest slab for free form copper ore pendants?
I haven't had good luck slabbing copper bearing rocks in the past. I jammed my slab saw bad on one. When cutting with the trim saw, you can see that bigger pieces of copper just smear instead of grinding away like rocks do. Rocks with small flecks of copper are much better to work with than rocks with larger areas of copper.
You could probably make a few BB's for your Red Rider Rifle with that amount of copper.
I think there is actually a Red Rider BB gun in the house. My son had one. Never shot an eye out, either.
i used johnny fresh(muriatic acid of some %) from Menards and left them for a couple weeks and they came out with shiny copper and big pits where the crystal got eaten away. i got a backpack full of stuff out of the central mine last year in the spring.
Yours didn't oxidize after taking it out like ours did? Did you neutralize the acid with baking soda or something?
@MichiganRocks they went into another bucket with water in it and sat in there for quite awhile I don't remember exactly how long til I looked at them and they were still shiny copper with minimal tarnishing
@@rcryderman11 Ok. Ours were just briefly in the water bucket and then rinsed under running water for a couple minutes. We learned our lesson!
Looks like you hit that place at just the right time. They really had things stirred up. Went rock hunting in Manistee, Mi and it was the best hunt so far this year. Things have been pretty much sanded in all spring !
I haven't hunted Manistee yet. I was near there once, but didn't do very well.
@@MichiganRocks Michigans west coast can be feast or famine. It’s just depends on the wind and the waves. This year so far there’s been an incredible amount of sand. Even a small beach that is almost totally rocks was all sand a week ago. I’ve never seen it that way before.
@@davidhile5363 I heard the same thing when I was down in the Grand Haven area a week ago.
Maybe try using a brass brush with a little dish soap and see if you can bring the copper to the surface and get a shine? Just throwing a wild guess out there.
I'm not sure how much that would scratch it up or ruin the natural shape of the ones we exposed with acid.
There are a couple youtube videos I found on how to extract the copper
We'll have to do some more research. I'm too busy editing all the time, so I hope Sam takes that on.
@@MichiganRocks he finds the good stuff in droves, so his copper, his research hahaha 🤣 just kidding Sam! Kinda 😏
Have you ever found silver after having had melted away the calcite?
No, but my brother in law found a rock on the beach the next day that may have had silver in it. That video will be coming out later, not sure when though.
great specimens! Thank you for sharing
To make copper (or any metal) shiny, you have to either abrade it (grinding, sanding, buffing) or burnish it (tap, rub, or hammer it with something very hard and smooth).
Thanks, Peter.
Really enjoyed this video. One of your best. Thank you...
You're welcome, Dan. Glad you liked it.
Can Green Stone be tumbled? I have a wedge about the size of my foot, but I didn't want to break it up till I learned more about it.
I think people sometimes tumble it a little before working it on wheels. I don't want to give you bad advice though, so I'd look into it more yourself before you ruin your tiny little greenstones. There's a Facebook group for just greenstones. I'd join that and start asking questions.
@@MichiganRocks thanks for the fast response, will do. Love your channel.
Can anyone go here? I'm going to be in Keweenaw peninsula in a month or so
Ah :) Just got to the "county property" part
Yes, you can go there as long as the road commission isn’t working there. So if the gate is closed you can go in. If the gate is open then they’re working there that day and you need to stay out.
What are “ green stones “? There are so many green stones, what type of stones are these green stones? 😊
They're sometimes called Isle Royale Greenstone, but the scientific name is chlorastrolite. It's the state gemstone of Michigan. It's used in jewelry and is pretty rare. It's really hard to find a good one. Sam was here yesterday and tried to polish several more and they were pretty much all duds. He kept six and threw a few others away. The six he kept were all pretty bad, but showed a little pattern.
@@MichiganRocks , they are lovely stones. I had just never heard of these stones before seeing your video with Sam. Michigan State Stone ! ☺️
Awsome episode! Nice job guys!!!!!
What about using a dremel with a polishing pad?
For the copper? It's very jagged and would just tear up a felt pad.
Turned out pretty
🙋♀️❤️. Try Bar keeper's Friend!
Or, A and W root beer, acid to water
Never heard that one.
As for making the copper shine, heat? The melting point of copper is almost 2000F, but a home oven at its highest temp might move some molecules around?
We were trying to keep the copper the same shape as we found it if possible. Although hitting it with a hammer isn't good for that.
Look up copper plating use your copper as sorce materials.
I have seen some of that before. It's pretty cool stuff. I'm not sure that's a hobby I want to take on, though.
@MichiganRocks it can be done with a 9 v battery, plastic bucket, &aquarium aerator for eqp. Of course acid as transfer media.
@@richardmcfarland4830 Right. I have seen the set up at someone's house this past winter.
Muriatic acid, or hydrogen chloride, also eats away at the copper, producing copper chloride. That would explain the dull orange color.
Thanks, Ben. We sure didn't like that orange color. We have gotten a few more suggestions that we're going to try out.
😍😍😍
Oh man I was literally JUST out there! Stayed at Sunset Bay, which is aptly named. Best rock hounding of my entire life, and a truly magical place...Good luck with the bugs!! ✌️🫶
Someone was just telling me about Sunset Bay. That's a campground, right? How were the rocks on the beach there?
@MichiganRocks Small but AMAZING! Found some great, vivid wild-banded agates right there on the resort beach. Lots of pudding stone, but it's like all the rocks there are polished daily by the Lake ❤️❤️❤️
@@erlersherdersher1518 I'll have to stop by there next time.
I'll contact Wikipedia about your copper take!
Thanks, Mark! I like these things to be accurate.
Sulfamic acid is supposed to be better for cleaning. I hear that muriatic acid may eat silver away.
I have been told the same thing both others. I need to order some of that.
Love the greenstone!!
I've been there! My metal detector wouldn't stop going off there lol
That was our problem too. I think we should have set it to be less sensitive, but I'm not sure if it has a setting for that.
VERY jealous!😂 Wish I was your neighbor and could find a way to stowaway in your Jeep when you go out! Told my daughter I’d like to rent an RV and take several days to go along Lake Superior and the Keewenaw peninsula, but neither of our cats would be too happy!😿😾
You can't teach the cats to sniff out agates like a bloodhound?
@@MichiganRocks I don’t know- I can’t get her to go near the water!😾😹 Although, I have found them in/on the dry sand...😿🤷🏻♀️😁
Decades ago, a Great Uncle worked for C&H Mining. He's soak pieces of copper in CocaCola...although, I'm sure it was different back then...
Beautiful job!! Rob...you gotta take Sam to Michigan Tech's Rock Museum...
Sam is going to Tech in the fall. I asked if he wanted to go to the museum, but he said he'd do that when he moved up there. He wanted to spend as much time looking for them as he could on this trip.
TRY COPPER BRITE WILL SHINE IT UP. THEN WASH GOOD
I did a search for Copper Brite and didn't find too much. Do you have a link to where to buy it?
To make copper super shiny really fast, spray some dilute ammonia on it then rinse it.
Thanks, I might give that a try.
Maybe build or buy a small forge furnace and melt the copper out of the stone.
I don't think that would be a good use of my time or money for such a small amount of copper. It would be a lot of fun though.
I ask never having worked any.
I live and mine up hear in the UP .I have crushed there .its nice that thay do that for people .
I really appreciate that people are allowed to hunt rocks there.
That's a fun spot, my GG Grandfather was a miner in Central when it was open and I had the privilege of pulling a chisel chip out of the tailings a couple summers ago. Thanks for the video!
What a cool connection. I'm sure you wondered if you great, great grandfather was the one to produce that chip.
Very cool hunt! You guys did great!
Rob & Bon, where is this located? I would b like to visit here someday. Thank you
Right here: maps.app.goo.gl/tqf2TMkbLGp8mPyA7
@MichiganRocks I drive US41 every day to work. It might be hard to take the exit tomorrow, now I know I am only 4 short hours away every morning. Lol
Glad you went to the Jampot! One of the best places in the world!
I always stop there. This was in mid May when there wasn't a line out the door.
@@MichiganRocksI always recommend that people stop there and they are always glad they did
I considered joining them and was good friends with the two founders for the years I was up there. They have since passed away and the only person there who might even remember me would be the first person who joined them. I used to spend time with the two brothers (before they got ordained) in the winter. Such a beautiful place. They were trying so hard to recruit me but in the end I just could not do it. I'm not a person who takes to authority very well.
When I first got to know them it was a small place with their schoolroom and small addition. The guest cabins were not redone yet and there was so much more change to come. All amazing to witness.
@@obiwanbenobi4943 I don't know any of the monks there personally. I'm sure they're great guys. I really respect people who dedicate their lives to God like that.
Why do you not dop these greenstone ?
He could have, but decided to just do it by hand. Dopping is sort of a pain if you want to do both sides.
That was lot's of fun.
Yes it was.
If you really want to make them sparkle, put them in water an ad about half a pound of citric acid from the health food store
Does citric acid work better than muriatic?
@@MichiganRocks It will not dissolve all the calcite, and gives the copper a bit of a sparkle.
@@okboomer6201 Ok, thanks.
Wow that's a lot of native copper!
May I ask what's the purpose of finding natural copper?
Fun. It's just fun to find something like that. If we figure out how to clean it properly, I think it would make a nice display piece.
Okay thank you!
I’ve been digging in stamp pile since I was a kid. Love visiting the UP for this reason
I like the beaches better, but the tailings piles are fun for a change of pace.
Always great to see people enjoying the spoil rock piles and finding interesting specimens. :)
I lived in that area for 15 years and loved the history. Right before I left I found about a pound of native copper in the spoil rock they used to line the Rail Trail along the bank of the canal. Having lived in DHH (Douglas Houghton Hall at MTU) for many years I'd seen it change from a wooded bank to being built upon and then transformed by moving the sewer system and plant out to the stamp sands. Being a rail fan I liked it much better when the trains were still running.
I've heard that people will look for datolite when the county spreads fresh rock out on roads too. Nice way to see it all freshly spread out.
@@MichiganRocks I used to have some friends in the gem and gift business up there who would go diving in a very secret spot for that. They were often getting museum quality specimens that were in high demand.
Have you tried Iron Out or Oxalic acid?
Nope. Someone who I believe really knows what they're talking about suggested a different acid that I can't remember right now. I can get it at Home Depot, I think, so I'm going to try that one of these days.
IS that area public or private ?
It's owned or maybe leased by the road commission from what I understand. They don't mind if you hunt rocks there as long as they're not there working at the time.
You could use a ball or chain mill.
I don’t have one of those, but we are going to try tumbling some.