Stretching Doesn't Reduce Injury. So What Does? | Educational Video | Biolayne
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2023
- Stretching does not reduce injuries:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26642...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15782...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18785...
Warm up effect on injury incidence
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35627...
Sleep reduces injury risk:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32061...
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I reduced my injury risk to 0% by sleeping 100% of the time.
Sleeping 100% of the time increases injury risk the most, especially the shoulders. Muscle weakness is the biggest risk factor.
This is revolutionary science
Solid strategy.
Based
Bed sores
Discipline isn't always about showing up and doing the work. It's sometimes about cutting training volume or customize the training when injuries happens.
Exactly. Showing up and doing the work regardless of pain or injury is not discipline, its ego.
Only the best athletes understand this. I would add too humbling yourself to stick to a plan to commit to it in the long run.
I am doing that right now because of a shoulder tear. And at first, it hurt because I couldn't even squat 45 lbs. (bar) without pain...
Amen, learning all about this right now. Thank you Layne.
Discipline is about consistency, the amount of work is irrelevant
As someone who is a massage therapist and has a stretching certification, I always try to push my clients to focus on strength training to deal with pain. Massage feels great and is no super relaxing but people who get them are often times don’t want to do any work for themselves.
As someone who is a lifter I can also confirm getting stronger in general has reduced my injuries and made me more resistant to them as well
Great to hear a massage therapist say this. Guarantee there are alot of them that would tout the injury prevention of the practice
Way to judge your clients SMH
@@soulsearch1234 he's just sharing some empirical data (his observations) it's ok.
Unfortunately you will not break up the densifications, adhesions in the tissue and between the tissues with exercise alone. When you get densifications and adhesions you need a compressive and tensile force often combined with movement and load to break them up.
"If you don't want to get injured don't get out of bed in the morning" that was hilarious
His warmup sets are my goal working sets 😂
i’m hypermobile (ehlers danlos) and before i was diagnosed there was a series of non-lifting injuries which caused me to fully decondition for years. i was scared to lift again. you’re truly right that this is not just physical exposure therapy but mental exposure therapy. only seeing other people with my condition successfully powerlifting and research that stresses the benefits of resistance training for my condition did i decide to come back. would love to see more content on hypermobility and injury! i know it could change a lot of lives
Fellow EDSer here, good on you lifting heavy! So many of us are terrified of lifting, my belief is that packing muscle around our less than ideal joints helps stabilize. However scientifically true, idk, but in my experience I'm so much better off when routinely lifting.
How did you find out? The only thing I've done consistently in the past couple years at the gym is injure myself and having to take a month or so off and come back weaker, and it's frustrating because I used to be so fit and now I can't even squat the bar without my back hurting.
I dislocated my shoulder looking backwards reversing my car. Kept happening. Rather than it being just stupid flexible, I think a bit was lack of strength in some muscles not holding it in place.
@@_lil_lilcan you asain squat and back bridge. I dare say if you can, you should be able to squat pain free
Also hypermobile, shoulders are especially bad. So bad they dislocate when I turn during the night. Over time I figured out some tricks that make it way better. First, j never ever do passive stretching. Some active stretching (like crab pose/bridges) helps. I sleep on my back and try to externally rotate my arms as I fall asleep, that tends to keep the shoulders happy overnight. I can't do certain exercises like the front squat, the way the bar is supposed to rest forces my humerus out of it's socket. Be very strict with retracting shoulders when benching.
Oh, and bodyweight facepulls are a game changer. I always warm up with them and my shoulders feel just fine during workouts. They used to hurt and feel uncomfortable and tight after workouts, but the facepulls fixed them completely.
Love the combo of taking research and showing how you incorporate it. Its crazy how much a simple thing like sleep helps with everything
This is my favorite video from you now. So much insight into your logical troubleshooting around rehabilitation
I avoid squats, deadlifts and bench. Haven't had any injuries since.
Truth!
Hip thrust is another one to be careful.
@TranceMusic20 I've never done those to even know tbh
I feel like bench doesn't have to be excluded here as long as you do it properly but yeah deadlift is an injury nightmare and squat isn't much better
I squat, deadlift and bench and havent had an injury yet.
That was really useful. More of this type of video would be great. The debunking videos are great too, but these are better and ultimately more useful. Thanks Layne.
I was literally looking for information related to injury prevention! This is awesome Thanks Layne!!!
this is honestly one of the best videos for people EVER!!!!!!!
There are so many videos of physicians talking about how to rehab bulging disks, and even though what they prescribe isn't necessarily bad, it's directed at the general public who aren't gym rats.
I always thought "how is doing cat/cow pose and dead bugs going to make a dent in the recovery of someone who can deadlift and squat 500+ lbs".
This makes so much more sense.
He was doing cats camel and bird dogs with dr mcgill.
@pickwickiansyndrome1546 I know, but he also utilized regressions. Many physicians just tell you to avoid specific lifts all together.
physiotherapy has its own scope nowadays and physicians with up-to-date education will know when to refer to them. and you are right, their priority is to help unwell people with activities of daily living rather than get you PRs
that was awesome Dr Norton, added this to a playlist, and will watch a few times more
Outstanding video Layne!! Thanks for helping out, this is some I’ve been struggling with for long now. Keep it up man, what a legend of the game💪🏼💪🏼
Absolutely fantastic information. Thanks Dr. Norton.
I think it's really helpful that you provided a couple of examples of how you've worked through your injuries.
This is great information and spot on with current research. Love it when others are preaching the truth out there. There’s a lot of misinformation floating around, and it's refreshing to see someone who reads and understands the literature on fitness, recovery, and building strength.
Awesome. I appreciate all the videos. But the generous explanation of process in thos one was fantastic.
Excellent video and really helpful! I’m definitely going to implement a good warm up and dynamic stretching routine before my training session and focus a lot more on sleeping and not doing junk volume. 👍💪
Fudge Layne - then how does BatMan remain in peak physical condition with only microsleep? Huh? CHECKMATE! 😂
Love this comment.
I’m a sports and msk Physio and have to say, this is completely correct. Mostly the approach I use with my patients and clients now.
Great video Layne. If I had to boil it down to one thing, it would be a load management. Obviously acute injuries are going to happen, but the majority of injuries that I see every day are from inappropriate load management.
I do both Sumo and Barbell Squats. Really appreciate the details on this one. Thanks, Dr. Norton!❤🙏🏻❤️
Outstanding info thanks Dr. Layne
Well-earned wisdom. It's welcome! Thank you!
Have a shoulder injury, it’s been months but slowly getting better through mobility training, increasing range of motion and strengthening. I’m keeping it moving. I look forward to when I can sleep in my left side and not wake up in pain, it’s very close
Same
Great topic Layne very much appreciated.
best video so far i've been a fan for years
Great video. I didn’t know that about the sleep, but makes perfect sense and lines up with my previous injuries
Thank you for this. Very helpful and informative. There is so much misinformation around injury. Are there any benefits at all to stretching then? I love stretching, not for injury prevention, but just feels good for the muscles.
Great video. Thank you Layne.
Strengthening the antagonist weaker muscles helped me most on this matter. For example sitting too much put my hamstrings in a slightly flexed position and a slight stretch on my quads. Hammy stretches were super ineffective, but strengthening quads and hip flexors automatically improved my hammy flexibility. It's all about the balance of the muscles, especially the antagonist muscles like the quads or hammies. Same happened to my shoulders when I started doing external rotation exercises and strengthening the lower and mid traps to create balance up there after all those heavy push days. Good luck and let me know if something else better worked for you!
Love it. Found the same when I pulled a tendon off the bone. Slow weight bearing training over time compared to an immobilised similar patient produced significantly quicker and better recovery.
one of your most informative videos , thank you layne!
Even though I have a huge respect for Layne, this is one of those topics where I don't care what science says, I know my stretching before each section helps me in terms of pain and reduce injury risk. I do it, pain goes alway in case I have it, my range of motion improves and I feel it in my body, not with my feelings, that it helps me to perform my workout.
Science is great and all, but no amount of paper or data will tell me not to static stretch.
The same things will happen if you just do a sport specific warm-up (light squatting before squats); that will save time and give you actual practice. Try it!
Yeah that’s the thing about “the science”… it’s always behind what you can see with your own eyes.
@j2asper ... Doing sets of an exercise that has a deep stretch to the movement IS stretching.
“Active Isolated Stretching” (dynamic) is great option.
Thank you for another wonderful and informative video.
Always make sure to emphasize the static x dynamic, I 100% stretch my hamstring before performing a high kick with a weaker slower kick for example and it does feel helpful.
That is extremely important for tendon injuries and injury preventions as well!
Amazing video! Thank you! 🙏
Please do a review on WEIGHT WATCHERS 🙏 I love this channel and have learned so much. I think a WW review would be so beneficial.
Thanks for the great information as always!
Great video! I always continue my workouts with injury with the same method as well, but the cause of the injury made totally sense now! Thank you for another no BS video
Layne might (for sure) be the most balanced exercise scientist and nutritionist I’ve ever read or heard
This is so important for those who take training seriously.
I'm a physical therapist, and I approve this message
Great advice! 👍
This is gold. I currently have injured wrists from boxing and sprained ankles from running
This information was very helpful.
Pure Gold Layne….just as usual. 👌💪
And your natural too. Very impressive. I tore my left pec in 2011 and came back stronger. However I had help. Now I have injured my left shoulder. Injury unfortunately is inevitable if you lift long enough. I started at 15 and now I’m 40
You’re natural
Thank you for this. Now I know I was on the right track when I would hurt something and change the routine by lightening up whatever I was doing and work back up. It's hard to overcome the desire to keep pushing when you are in pain as our egos fight us. My start includes a slant board before I start doing my routine. I do deep knee bends and step offs which helps stretch my hips, hamstrings, ankles, and calves so I can do deep split squats with the back leg stretched as far as I can starting with no weight and working towards weighted pushes. I really enjoy your vids. Keep it up.
In the off season on my secondary squat and bench day I intensely stretch my main movers with the intent to decrease force production and artificially weaken myself as a form of load management. Bodybuilders have been doing it for years and I've seen great gains.
This is excellent. Thank you
Would ❤to see a warmup video blog layne 🤗
Good to hear. I've been doing likewise.
On leg day I start with the elliptical machine; then light weights and work my way up to the heavy sets; then drop-set back down.
I do dynamic stretching, in my experience it helps a lot .. I always pulled something before I started to do proper warmups.
5:09 I think getting that mental connection dialed in is key to any warm up! There are days I go through the motions without getting my mind invested and the workouts always suck.
Great video!
Static stretching may not reduce injury rates if done prior to to exercise, but maintaining appropriate muscle length, muscle strength balance and joint ROM of which static stretching can be used as one of the tools to accomplish these factors does reduce injury rates.
Thank you! Sooo helpful ❤
Great info.
thank you, very helpful! lunges are causing knee pain so ill try your tips
Good stuff.
I can’t overemphasize the point about progressing slowly into your heavy set. On leg day, if squatting is my first exercise, I can spend 20 to 30 minutes on sub max sets. I start with 100 lbs, crank out 20 reps, add more weight, 17 reps, add more, 15 reps, add more, 13 reps, add more, 10 reps. Now ready for the 3 working heavy sets.
I got low-key worried when i saw you working with Stu McGill a few years back. Happy to see you adopt a biopsychosocial approach to pain and injury!
Great video
An important thing is to note is sometimes a form of dynamic stretching might be all you can do for a while. I hurt my back 4 months doing 720 lb farmers holds and kept trying to start light with just the bar or 135 lb, but it never really improved much. I couldn’t walk more than 20 steps without feeling nauseous for the first month. Recently, I started doing some simple dynamic stretching, a good amount of walking and laying on my stomach, not my back, and nordic curls (yes, a hamstring exercise, but my back is the limiting factor currently) along with upright loading, such as Bulgarian split squats (just did 415 lb today). I’m finally starting to recover.
I have no idea what is wrong with my back since MRI dyes make me super sick, but nothing showed on the X-ray so it must be soft tissue.
15 min brisk walk with exaggerated arm swing. Your welcome.
You did a 415lb bulgarian split squat? All credit to you. Torture!!!!
I did my first hamstring injury and did what you are saying, it improved, but not properly really. I did it again pulling a light trailer, I was run down. I started incorporating some deep massage into the region, it seems to have pretty much got to 100%, in the same period. I wasn't one for massage, but I now think it can have its uses. I wouldn't totally discount static stretching, like you can do a static, then the dynamic and move back to the static, then the dynamic again. After a hard day and you don't have energy for dynamic, some static can make you feel good
What are you thoughts on knee/elbow wraps? Sounds like you don't believe they'd help prevent injuries? Any benefit beyond some extra support in stretched positions?
Thanks for the video. For the algorithm!
Love this. Thanks.
Restoring range of if motion can definitely help with injuries
Any recommended resources for exposure therapy and injury risk reduction?
How did you heal your cervical injury?
BIG UP FROM FRANCE Bro !
On stretching I'd like to hear Layne's view in regards to joint ROM for certain movements. I'm extremely stiff and inflexible, if I don't do certain stretches regularly or as part of my warm-up, I don't have the ROM to perform the movement correctly and overtime do get certain injuries, it's as simple as that... e.g.. rowing, squatting movements and running ..
Actually he kinda answered my question later in the Vid... 😊
Great video as always. I was doing this active recovering without knowing. Basically I don't want to give up on those gains, so I try to make the exercise "easier" for the muscle, while still doing it. Often worked out great.
Do you do the warm up sets for only the first exercise of each muscle group?
Stretching may not, but there certainly is a baseline of flexibility required for certain lifts that will increase your risk if you don’t have it.
good points
Nice video as always, I just wanted to ask for PMID about active>passive recovery, and what about lack of flexibility, being too stiff, isn't it more prone to injury? ant wouldn't technically stretching reduce the chance of injury you are prone to because you become less stiff and regain that flexibility (not talking about overflexibility, but returning to full ROM).
I’m a veterinarian who’s been involvedin orthopedic surgeries. The same goes with bone fracture healing. Te bone needs to feel a bit of pressure in order for it to heal. But if you put too much pressure the bone will break. But you never let the dog be inactive.
Is there evidence to support that warmup sets and/or dynamic stretching reduce the risk of injury?
I can’t do squats or leg press without groin pain, but I found out I can do the quad extension machine and walking lunges pain free. I’m sticking with those two for now. I’ll try to do squats and/or leg press again in a couple of weeks.
How did it go?
Can you do another video around other modalities people think reduces injury risk like massage, acupuncture, ice baths etc?
Thank you
Gave the video a like after you described your injuries and that you are still lifting crazy weight.
To avoid injuries I prefer high rep, about 15 and focus on eccentrics. It's just as effective for building muscle as low rep and I'm not going to rip any muscles because the load is much lower than I would use on a 8 rep.
I hope Coach Greg makes a video about this
As always gteat stuff from the Jedi Master of training information...You and Dr Mike are gods in my training universe :-)
I had an acute back injury a little less than four weeks ago. I believe it was a spinal erector muscle strain, as my pain was intense but localized to L3 and L4 region of the spine. I did not have any tingling or shooting pain down the legs, so that gave me a bit of reassurance that it was not a herniated disk. The pain was at its peak the morning after and my back was so stiff that it was painful to simply stand upright. The next few days the pain gradually decreased- I would take one prednisone ONCE A WEEK for the next two weeks and I now am near to full squat weight (I'm 5'7", so 275 is challenging to me) and the pain is gone. I would have assumed a muscle tear would have taken longer to recover?
You didn't mention the effect size for risk-reduction of sport-specific warmups and at which point we see diminishing returns. How about non-specific or "passive" warm-ups utilizing infrared, etc?
Dr Andrew huberman made a video on stretching that seems to contradict what you're saying. I looked up some studies on stretching and it does seem to help with certain things. For example a meta-analysis on neck pain showed its to be beneficial in reducing the pain. If you respond to this I'll send you the links to some studies 😄
Dr stefi Cohen also recommends using stretching to improve squats and prevent injury. I assume she knows what she is talking about since she has a doctorate in physical therapy and has 20 world records in weight lifting
what about warmup sets (light weight sets before your working set)? I keep hearing about them but does the science actually back it up in reducing injuries?
Totally attest to this! All of my injuries happened when I underslept.
The only injury ive had in the past 10 years was when i was talked into static stretching before squats. I pulled something in my groin while i was warming up and could barely get in/out of my car for a week.
The algorithm reduces the risk of injury.
Why the hate on stretching? Layne this is in the conclusion of the study you screen shot. Did you miss it SS and "PNF show no overall effect on all-cause injury or overuse injuries, but there may be a benefit in reducing acute muscle injuries with running, sprinting, or other repetitive contractions"
From my knowledge data around stretching is poor. Bespoke stretching prior to specific movements can alter biomechanics,plausibly improving efficiency or changing loads on specific structures.
I'll give you a really easy example. I developed golfers elbow from squats. The rack position caused a quickly escalating discomfort over the course of weeks. How did i address it? I stretched the shit out of my pecs before squats which relieved forces going through my elbow immediately reducing pain and settling the issue over about 4 weeks.
This stuff is complex and all these studies throw "high school" stretching programmes at the wall hoping they'll stick.