Insomnia insight
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- A common question from the community is which is the way to follow where there are conflicting ideas. In CBTi we are told to get out of bed if we can't sleep.
In ACT we hear that we should stay. Natto says to befriend wakefulness. In this video, we look at various ideas of how to sleep well when you've been struggling. We find ideas that truly are conflicting and some that are closer than you may imagine.
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Are you thinking of a joining a movement helping the world sleep better? Would you like a fresh start and a new career as a sleep coach?
If the answer is yes, then check out our sleep coach certification program! Next batch starts May 15. 3 slots available.
www.thesleepcoachschool.com/o...
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Would you like a roadmap from Insomnia to immunity? Download using below link.
www.thesleepcoachschool.com/h...
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Have a question for open class?
Please submit here and I will try to respond soon in an Open class episode.
www.thesleepcoachschool.com/h...
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Would you like to work with a sleep coach? Awesome! Here are some great options:
- The Insomnia Immunity Group Coaching Program.
- BedTyme, a sleep coaching app for iOS and Android offering 1:1 text based coaching.
- Zoom based 1:1 coaching with Coach Michelle.
The Insomnia Immunity program is perfect if you like learning through video and want to join a group on your journey towards sleeping well.
BedTyme is ideal if you like to learn via text and have a sleep coach in your pocket.
The 1:1 Zoom based program is for you if you like to connect one on one with someone who has been where you are now.
For more about these programs here: www.thesleepcoachschool.com
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Do you like learning by reading? If so, here are two books that offer breakthroughs!
Set it & Forget it by Daniel Erichsen
www.amazon.com/Set-Forget-rea...
This is Natto by Daniel Erichsen
www.amazon.com/This-Natto-rea...
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Not sure where to start? Check out these playlists!
This is natto - the perfect place to start learning!
• This is Natto - Start ...
Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you.
• Success stories
Insomnia insight - a list of every single episode.
• Playlist
Talking insomnia - guests with trouble sleeping or experts share their stories / tips.
• Talking insomnia
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
• Hypnic jerks and more.
Fatal insomnia - for those concerned about ffi and sfi.
• Familial and sporadic ...
Speed bumps - when you think you had a setback or “relapse.”
• Talking insomnia #55: ...
Unrefreshing sleep - when you always feel tired or exhausted.
• Unrefreshing sleep
Momsomnia - if you’re a mom or becoming a mom.
• Momsomnia
Health and sleep- if you’ve worried about health consequences of not sleeping.
• Playlist
Best!
This content does not constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment, and should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or other qualified healthcare providers. 
Развлечения
A very timely video for me. After 20+ years of dealing unsuccessfully with insomnia I was advised (Sleepstation) to try sleep restriction. My issue is middle of the night waking. Sleep restriction means literally no lying awake in bed. Every morning I’d wake at 3am go downstairs & watch tv or read. After a few weeks of this I was completely exhausted. However, when I told them it wasn’t working I was advised to ‘keep going’ & ‘you’re doing great!’ They’re rational was that restricting time in bed builds sleep pressure & in time extend the time asleep. I was so knackered I’d fall asleep but it didn’t stop me waking at 3am. As Daniel eloquently mentions it just made another rule for me. In fact it became a new pattern where every night I was getting up & doing something then going back to sleep for an hour then getting up to go to work. The seemingly’good’ advice ensured I d developed a Pavlovian response to being awake. Thank goodness to you & dr guy meadows for countering the tide of effluent that is spread around the web. 🙏
So glad you found your way here Adam 😊 And for more on what can become rules around this, check the Talking insomnia episode with Jonathan from two weeks or so ago, I think you’ll find it pertinent. Rooting for you!
Watching Netflix in bed and allowing my anxiety to hang out with me defo helps I don’t even react to anxiety anymore I let it be because here with daniel I remember I used to sleep fine even when I had anxiety
this was my precise problem with CBTI, the emphasis on controlling did rise the level of my anxiety. I became anxious when failing to observe a small rule, then anxious when the results failed to show up. Plus the "force yourself to think positive" approach reinforced the "control is important/you're failing to control" pattern - as the insomnia refused to fade away, forcing me to acknowledge that the whole "lie until becomes a truth" is failing. Thus reinforcing my anxiety and augmenting the whole thing
The advice to "go to bed when you're sleepy" works poorly in my case, also, and perhaps it's because I'm an evening person; typically I don't feel sleepy until I get to bed and stay there for a while. For me it's an alien piece of advice to tell me (for instance) that I could read something until my eyes start closing. It doesn't happen. Even if it happens sometimes, it's an exception, not the rule, and when I was "hyperaroused" at night, I didn't feel really sleepy, ever (or hardly ever). The real answer, for me, has been to go to bed, and stay there, for the most part, and to do it mainly based on the time of night it is, not based on how sleepy I feel (because I don't feel sleepy)
Yes please invite Dr Guy Meadows. I remember his book mentioned to just lie in bed and rest in a state of quiet wakefulness, as opposed to like waking up and do something we feel like doing. The line between resting in quiet wakefulness vs trying to sleep is kind of hard to tell.
I have tried, and will keep trying until he shows up 😉🙂!
Currently trying the Citi way for midnight awaking for a month and half with no luck,, yess i feel pressured to go in the other room without waking my family during midnight awaking,,guess have to go the Act way now , which sounds much easier and less pressured
Hi Raju,
Sorry of course there’s some struggle still, but I think you’ve seen something that is so helpful to see… when we want to find peace, it’s peaceful means (not rules and pressure) that lead us there 😊
I started having sleep problems fairly recently, and after reading up on CBT-I I had the worst nights of my life when I tried the "Get out of bed if you're not asleep in X minutes" technique. Thankfully, I found Martin Reed's more recent recommendations to stay in bed as long as you feel relaxed and only get out if you feel distressed, and then just yesterday (in "The Sleep Book") and today (on this video here) I learned that ACT actually recommends against getting out of bed entirely. If I had tried to stick with this, I could have worked myself into a long-term problem. The issue is exactly the self-monitoring, as you stated. I've let go of this idea and some of the more stringent CBT-I rules and I think this will work better for me.
LL, I’m soo glad to read these lines. I think what you’re learning from Martin, ACT (knowing there aren’t strict rules!) and here really is leading to this gentle way of leaving the struggle.
Thanks so much for sharing and be in touch 🙂
So glad you saw that it was these ideas that were off, not you 🙂
Team NATTO, here. Thanks for making it so clearly the path to take, Daniel.
Anytime 🙂
"ACT is about facing the emotions that you've been scared of, and you're willing to be in these emotions and sit in these emotions, THEN we can see that they are not dangerous, THEN we can see we are safe, THEN these emotions fade away."
Spot on Daniel!! Emotions are just emotions. Discomfort, not danger. And it's only discomfort if you label it as such, most of the time it's just energy charging around our body at a perceived "inconvenient" moment :)
So so glad this made sense 😊 and thanks for adding more clarity here for the community and myself 🙏!!
So true!! I struggled with cbti for the very reasons you give . For me, it's totally counterproductive. Thanks for your reassurance. 😊
So glad you’re finding that what you went through is very common and normal, that helps so much
Hello Dr Daniel. I have been struggling with maintenance insomnia for quite some time now. It’s gotten really bad during the pandemic. I have read most of set it and forget it and I believe my anxiety behind not sleeping has gotten better. Instead of pacing around the house I am sitting and relaxing and watching one of my favorite comedies. But, I’m unable to sleep. My wife always encourages me to stay in bed with her, but I do not want to wake her with my restlessness. A funny aside, we took an overnight trip with our daughters where we all slept in bunk beds. That was one of my best nights sleep in a while. I was diagnosed with mild to moderate sleep apnea and I cannot tolerate the cpap. I may go ahead and get the dental device. I agree with you that the less you think about a problem, the less of a problem it actually is, but solid sleep is important. With it I can lose the 40-50 pounds I need to lose that will significantly reduce my sleep apnea, which will make my sleep better. So right now I am stuck and I need to change that. Please help!
Hi Jerry, sorry about the struggle but glad you’re here. We have content on sleep maintenance and much more that I think can help. Hang in there!
I definitely think getting out of bed when it doesn't feel right helps massively. I've had terrible nights where I have stayed and tossed and turned with zero sleep. Definitely give me anxiety towards the bed. I'd even see a bed on a movie and it would give me anxiety.
Leaving the struggle, this makes much sense Dan
Thank you for that. I will preface by saying I am familiar with your excellent work though there must still be gaps that lead to trouble for me. My history is someone who the vast majority of my life has had minimal difficulties with falling asleep or staying asleep. In recent years though there has been an increase in anxiety associated with time to fall asleep or even middle of the night waking. without return to sleep.
For me, the issue is not whether or not to stay in bed with wakefulness, it's how to cope with the surge of emotions that invariably arise when laying in bed awake. After a certain period of time, I might develop restlessness or more arousal that obviously interferes. I used to believe that wakefulness would result in a very terrible next day of functioning (which I've learned isn't at all true). But I know from experience that a certain threshold of reduced sleep hours will lead to fatigue or reduced attention/concentration the next day that is certainly tolerable but is nonetheless annoying or frustrating. I understand that it is the expectation for a following day of reduced attention or fatigue that leads to increased arousal when laying in bed that has to contribute to the hyperarousal associated with continued wakefulness. And I am much better with accepting these occasional wakeful nights but obviously not completely. There is clearly a certain unwillingness to accept the negative consequences for excessively wakeful nights. Having the education and awareness doesn't seem enough to eliminate this. Based upon everything I've heard and read on your channel and my other inputs, there is no "solution" here but I suppose I wish that sleep wouldn't have to be a potential struggle waiting to possibly happen each night. Somewhere along the way this has happened and this is where I am now. Much better with coping than before ACT/Natto though! Oh, humanity! Am I missing something?
I still have some unwillingness to accept the physical fatigue that results from a bad night of sleep, too.
But the "no solution" that u said gives a feeling of desperation.
Maybe recovery and acceptance need their time to happen.
What are your thoughts about that coach Daniel?
Hi Michael and Peace,
You know, it can be really scary and at first it can seem so disappointing… but I believe no solution is the solution… and the way to the peace we would like to see.
If you listen to Alina, Talking insomnia #52, after a year long struggle she found what she calls the ultimate insight, “there’s nothing I can do to sleep better”. After this, her struggle was over.
Now this said, there are many things that can help us along the way, because Alina’s insight can be difficult to hear about earlier on.
And one of these things is the acceptability threshold. I thought of this because of the threshold you mentioned Michael:
Here - ruclips.net/video/0Q2Ii1jW87E/видео.html
And also, when we think we are missing something, that’s really the only thing that stands in our way, the belief that something is missing 😊
I found Guy Meadow’s Sleep School App really helpful but I found it hard to do body scanning etc without feeling that it needed to make me sleep even though he explained it was meant just to be calming. I find your method better I.e. do nothing.
So glad Judith that what I share here makes sense 😊!!
What about cases that are related to medication/reactions. Current or past ones?
Hi Justina, I think of it like this - a 1000 things can disrupt sleep, only fear of not sleeping creates insomnia
Hi Daniel. If you decide to stay in bed and relax, how do you do this without having some sort of expectation to get to sleep? ACT and guy meadows says when you wake up in the night, do nothing. Stay still, relax, and sleep will come. This has not worked for me. One night, I was lying for hours in my normal sleep position, sleep was not coming. So I turned over on my back, once I realized I was done for the night. I dozed off for a bit. Then tried this the next night and didn’t have the same results. How do you befriend wakefulness and relax in bed with no expectations to sleep? Would a good approach to this be, “I’m very awake, but my bed is comfy, I’m just going to lay here, and if I doze, I doze, without any expectations?
Hi Lisa,
Very insightful questions here, and I just made a video recently that I think can help! Check the weekly roundup from 10.21.22