Repertoire: The BEST Stravinsky Firebird (complete ballet)
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- Опубликовано: 12 ноя 2020
- The Firebird, for all the popularity of its suite, is a very tough work to play successfully in concert performances of the complete version. Despite piles of recordings, only seven are really worthy of your time, attention, and money. Here they are (and no, Ernest Ansermet is not among them).
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Thanks so much for this incredibly informative analysis! As a child, I was obsessed with the Firebird, and comparing different performances was one of the highlights of my childhood. I especially enjoyed the performances by Jarvi/London Symphony, Tilson/SFS, Salonen/Philharmonia, and Boulez/NY Philharmonic…all of which you do review here as your favorites.
I also had a peculiar fascination with Ormandy/Philadelphia, which was over the top-totally ornate and overly embellished. Throughout my life, I've never been able to discuss my obsession with the Firebird with anyone, so I had a great time viewing this video. Thank you so much for uploading it. My life is better because I saw this video.
Glad I could help! Thank you for watching.
I heard von Dohnanyi perform this with the Cleveland Orchestra at the Royal Festival Hall in London in the 1990s. Definitely one of the great live musical experiences of my life.
@@65jaypee Yes, that's the one! Same tour, obviously, since the program was the same. The only time I ever saw the Cleveland Orchestra live, as well. The entry of the solo flute in the finale of the Firebird sent a chill up the spine. Easily my favourite of the Stravinsky ballets. The expression "once in a lifetime" doesn't quite do it justice.
I just found your channel and I have to say that I thoroughly enjoy your content. You are very informative and I enjoy your sense of humor. Dido and Aeneas FTW!
Welcome aboard!
I have been listening to the Dohnanyi / VPO performance ever since I acquired it on LP when it was first released. I started at the top for this one.
My turntable always has problem at loud passages for this music. Wondering how well a hifi set up must be to handle this kind of dynamics on vinyl..
It is a really amazing version this VPO Dohnanyi performance. I can hear a wealth of details which other versions merely hint at.
I lived for four years in Moscow and my assistant never accepted the way I pronounced the word: Жар-птица (Zhar-ptitsa) in spite my efforts to do it well. Aslo, she never recognized the similitude between the words "petrushka" (parsley) and "Petrushka" (Little Peter). One day, my revenge came with Carlos Chavez´s Xochipilli.
You brought the Litton one to my attention. It is now one of my favorites!
The Dorati Firebird was one of the first classical music lps I bought and still the best version I've heard. Thankfully, the transfer to cd wasn't botched, it still sounds great.
I love "The Firebird." It's probably my favorite classical piece. Not by choice, mind you. I just find myself responding to it in such a visceral way. I think it's the amazing orchestration, mix of rhythm and folk tunes. There's something about that fairy tale sound world of Stravinsky and Rimsky Korsakov that seems somehow more real than real. I agree by the way with all of your choices of recordings. I can't think of anything to add. My favorite though would be the Dorati version. I even like the mono sound which brings out some of the details that can go unheard in modern sound unless you have the volume up to blasting. Thanks for the video.
I smiled from ear to ear when you showed Antal Dorati's! What a wonderful recording that is. Love it.
I have all of the 7 apart from Boulez (never been a fan) and agree with the recommendations.
Salonen also did a live version in Los Angeles, worth a listen but not as good as the Philharmonia version though.
Dohnanyi with the VPO nails it! For those that are unsure and have jumped onto the fashionable conductors wagon, listen to Gergiev and his old Kirov Orchestra and compare it to Litton and Dohnanyi, and Dorati! No comparison.
Keep them coming Dave! 👍🏻
Thank you, Mr Hurwitz. I have Boulez in DG but felt another one was necessary.
Great job as always. I agree that Dohnanyi with the VPO is probably the finest complete Firebird currently available; it stunned me (in a good way) when I first heard it , as did the Boulez/NYPO recording back in the day (my first experience with the complete ballet). Dorati/LSO is truly excellent, with sound that belies its age. Of the versions you mentioned I have not heard Litton, Salonen, or Dohnanyi with the Czech PO; the Litton is definitely on my radar. BTW I heard Dohnanyi conduct the complete ballet with the Cleveland Orchestra in a broadcast from Severance Hall some years ago; it was great.
David, I have just discovered your videos, and am enjoying them. Yes, after learning the complete Firebird through DORATI's 1959 LSO recording, there's little chance that any subsequent version could provide the same thrills. But your spot-on choices of Dohnanyi/Vienna and Boulez/NY really nail it.
I've always thrilled to ALL of the "pantomime" music in Firebird-- especially with the great re-telling of the story printed as Dorati's liner notes; my older brother and I were quaking in our boots back in '63 listening to the terrifying scene between Ivan and Kastchei. When I conducted the complete ballet (or most of it) for a huge educational project with the Ravinia Festival Orchestra (2001), I made sure to include ALL of the pantomime music, because the kids I worked with responded to its incredibly VIVID, visceral qualities. Stravinsky (as expected) hated the whole pantomime-thing in ballet (he called it "anecdotal" writing), vastly preferring Balanchine's abstract, formal approach. But--hey, Igor..Dude!...you did it BETTER than any composer ever dreamed of doing...and Dorati/Dohnanyi/Boulez all convey it brilliantly! (I'll have to check out Litton).
David; Thanks for your excellent, enjoyable videos series, and I hope we can talk at some point. LR (PS-- I like Ansermet's funky '55 Firebird as an alternate to the great ones).
The 1919 suite is the most frequently performed because it’s in the public domain. The 1945 suite is still under copyright from Boosey & Hawkes hence the smaller number of performances.
Dave, I love your videos but hope you have enough living space amidst all those CDs. :) I appreciate all of the recommendations here. I am particularly glad this video led me to dig for the Boulez / NYPhil recording, which doesn’t seem to be an easy find these days. That one really blew me away because Boulez places the interstitial elements on full par with everything else. This comes across in simple things like a tighter dynamic range than other recordings. It makes the work feel very much like a singular whole. And atop that there’s a rawness in the sound-in a good way-that pulls the work’s then-modernity (even if it’s not The Rite of Spring yet) to the fore.
What an interesting talk! It reminds me on my first complete „Firebird“. It was a live performance in a Prom together with the until then to me unknown „London“-Symphony of the until then to me unknown Vaughan Williams. And the „London“ knocked that poor birdie out.... (I do not remember, who was the conductor, I think Atherton, but I’m not sure.)
That was the complete „Firebird“ for me, until I heard Dohnanyi. He rescued the work for me. In fact, of your list the Salonen is unknown to me. MTT was a surprise - I bought the recording because of „Persephone“ and got a marvellous „Firebird“. Boulez was a surprise also, but he has a fine ear for colour and knows what to do with rhythms (and he has the „Nightingale“, one of my most adored Stravinsky-works.) I have also Ansermet, which is strange to me: I think, the beginning is quite good, but after a few minutes he loses interest and does a Kapellmeister-job until Kashchai - and the finale is great.
Nevertheless, I must confess that the „Firebird“ is not my favorite Stravinski, not even of the early works. It‘s too long with too less substance. In the Vienna State Opera, Maazel conducted an evening with all three early Balletts, and I liked the „Firebird“ (very slow and strangely balanced) much less than „Petrushka“ and „Sacre“.
I heard that same Prom on the radio as 14-year-old, and yes, it was Atherton. With the BBC SO, I think. Both the VW and the Firebird were knockout performances, they're still that vivid in my memory.
I rarely listen to the complete ballet, but then I don’t have Dohnanyi and should get one of his. However, I agree that the 1945 suite contains all the best bits. My favorite for that is Chailly with the Concertgebouw on that Decca two-fer that has your first-choice Rite.
Yes, Chailly is great for that too.
I'm curious: What do you think of Stravinsky's own recordings of the piece?
I'm a big fan of the Boulez / 70's NYPO. The off stage trumpets sound great in that recordings, spread out in the stereo sound.
Yes! The Litton is a great one, and Salonen’s is one I want to hear just out of curiosity. His ‘Perséphone’ is fantastic!
I frowned my eyebrows at your bold claim... Until I noticed that I have 4 of your 7 recommendations standing on my shelf. And I can only agree they're all really great. Honesty obliges me however to add that I prefer listening to the suites... I never regarded the Firebird as Stravinsky's most enticing work, but that's strictly personal.
I have four of the seven. Dorati-LSO, Dohnanyi-WPO, Boulez-NYPO, and Salonen-Philharmonia. They are all good, but my favorite is Ozawa-Boston. I like their solo playing. By the way, it is easy to say I like or not, but hard to explain why.
@@tomformanek3312I hear that often said about Lenny B! That being said, I bought his Beethoven cycle with Vienna as a Christmas gift for myself last year and loved it, only later discovering that people’s general consensus these days is that his older cycle with New York is more energetic, with faster tempi etc. Me, I still prefer slightly slower Beethoven, so I don’t mind, haha!
It's interesting, I've heard the complete Firebird live a bunch of times, and a number of them were superb. The one I heard in Baltimore under Markus Stenz was one of the great concerts of my life.
I also learned the complete Firebird from the MTT recording, and it never occurred to me that there was an 'interest problem' with the Firebird until I heard other recordings.
That's what happens when you start with a great one.
Hi Dave, I love your videos, very educational and FUN! You are addressing not only pure music lovers but audiophiles as well. I'm surely not the only one dying to know what system you are listening on. Unless it's a secret could you please reveal it? Thanks for sharing all your experience, knowledge and enthusiasm.
It's a secret. Seriously, I"m not an audiophile and so I won't go into it. My principal audio system is my ears.
David Hurwitz I respect that. Audiophile is not a swear word though. They come in all shapes and sizes, from the equipment freaks (in their case it IS a swear word) to the out-and-out music lovers who also happen to care about the quality of recorded sound. Plenty of your comments prove that you also do care. And if your system weren't worthy of the audiophile label you would just be missing a lot of the musical intent of practically any piece of music, and something like the Firebird in particular.
How about that - all three of my Firebirds are on the list. I got the Dohnanyi/VPO based on your earlier video, but the other two are pre-Hurwitz. Dorati I first got as an LP probably in the 60s and latest is the SACD, and the Boulez/NYPO on CD in 1987.
I really love you content. I am a somewhat young musician and these sorts of lists are really helpful. Do you think you could do one for Bruckner's 8th or 9th symphonies?
Sure, eventually, but if you're a young musician you've got time.
Thank you for mentioning Boulez's New York recording - the most exciting of the piece and one of Boulez's greatest recordings! I agree his remake was not as special, true of most of his digital remakes in my opinion
Your Russian pronunciation is spot on, David. Requesting a talk on Frank Martin, if you feel so inclined. I know you like the guy as much as I do.
I know Simon Rattle is in poor odor on this channel. But I find his Firebird both sensual and spectacularly recorded.
Which one?
I have the one with the Orquesta Ciudad de Granada with Josep Pons as conductor and i think it sounds marvellous....maybe not in the league of these Seven recordings? Maybe, but....
Yes, it's very good. I like the Card Game even better.
The reason most amateur and semipro orchestras avoid the 1945 suite is easy: you don't have to pay rental fees or performance royalties! The 1919 version is free and clear. I thoroughly enjoy the Litton - is he one of the most underrated conductors of our era? He's made more top-drawer recordings than anyone else in his generation, for Virgin, Delos, now Bis.
Dutoit is a lot of fun in this piece, very colourful. But I defer to your sage and knowledgeable opinion.
I'm glad you mentioned Dutoit. He's my favorite too, but I didn't want to mention it because I haven't heard The Seven.
Dear David, off-topic, I'd like to suggest three subjects for future videos: 1- Ivan Moravec; 2- Aaron Rosand; 3- The Royal Philharmonic Collection, made up of dozens of recordings made in the 90's and issued on several budget labels over the years, featuring the likes of Menuhin, Mackerras, Handley, Simonov, among others. Thank you.
I've talked about Moravec's Beethoven already and plan to do the big box, and I've mentioned him in several other talks. Aaron Rosand would not be a priority, and Royal Phil Collection is, as you suggest, all over the place. If it even got collected somehow in a box, I might be able to do something with it. Thanks for the suggestions.
I like Boulez (sony) best because it has the most refreshing naturalness, unfolding as if in a single sweep. On top of that, NYP plays with character and vigor.
Hi Dave, addressing a favorite piece of mine again. Curiously it seems you prefer those performers who are mainly considered to be symphonic conductors not the people of theatre and stage. I'm familiar with most of the recordings you mentioned even I have some of them, but my real favorite is a real man of theatre, someone who sees more in this piece just as a symphonic structure but a narrative whole and recorded with a sound never surpassed IMO, that's Colin Davis with Concertgebouw on Philips.
I wouldn't be in such a hurry to make a distinction between "symphonic" and a "real man of the theater" in Davis' case. His Firebird is very beautifully played in spots, but the one thing it lacks is drama--as I said, I was looking for performances that have no dead spots, and his has its share of them. I would also add that conductors such as Dorati or Dohnanyi were certainly "men of the theater" as much as Colin Davis was, if not more so. Finally, as I suggested in the video, I would have more confidence in comments such as "never surpassed' and whatnot if I knew that you had actually heard all of the other versions that I mentioned, and had them available for direct comparison. I had the Davis sitting next to me on the shelf when I made the video and was hesitating about including it, but ultimately I decided not to on account of a certain rhythmic slackness that weighs it down on occasion, beautiful though it certainly is.
Dear Mr. Hurwitz. I have Dohnanyi /VPO performance and fully agree with your opinion. Actually I bought those two Decca discs after listing to you video a few months ago. Looking to add Salonen or Decca (with Chailly/Ashkenazy) box to my collection. Since the budget is limited, which one would you pick? Thanks in advance!
If you can find the Salonen box I would prioritize that, but if not, the Decca is just fine too. You can't lose.
Many thanks Mr Hurwitz. I have listened to Salonen this night for the first time. It is an ear opener.
I have the Boulez Chicago 😭 Wish I got the NY instead
Is there also a Boulez / Cleveland? Could have sworn i had a CD with those forces coupling a 1910 Firebird and a Rite of Spring. The main characteristic is that even at max volume on a portable CD player, the sound was not loud enough...
I don't own a score, but I hate it when they play that final sequence of quarter notes - at the very end of the work - staccato. It just sounds wrong. I do like it when I can hear the series of soft tam-tam strokes, somewhere in the middle of the ballet. Needless to say, great woodwinds are a necessity. That's why the Dohnanyi pick is so interesting, because one doesn't immediately think of the Vienna Phil. when it comes to woodwinds. It's for that reason alone, I like the Colin Davis/Concertgebouw one. . I'm sure it has some faults too - I haven't dragged it off the shelf in a very long time.
What do you think about the version conducted by the composer himself?
As I said in the video, more or less, if it wasn't on the list, it didn't deserve to be. Usually I'm pretty open to differences and am happy to discuss relative merits, but in this particular work I make an exception.
There is one thing that interests me in the finale of the "Firebird": When the great chorale appears at the very end, there are huge differences in the interpretations. Once the chorale sounds very big with sustained notes (that's how I like it best), then there are conductors where the chords are played very briefly, almost a staccato. Why is that? I can hardly imagine that this has to do with interpretational freedom; are they different versions?
Yes, there are several different versions, all different as regards the brass and percussion parts. Stravinsky never stopped tinkering with it.
I've always much preferred the complete ballet to the suite(s) since I first heard it via the Dorati Mercury recording, which immediately captivated me with its color and detail. My other version is the second Boulez, which I enjoy also for its detail and for the virtuosity of the Chicago players. The "pantomime junk" are my favorite bits. The Dover full score has thoughtfully provided English translations of the headings for each of the 25 sections of the ballet, which provide a detailed outline of the scenario, so you can appreciate how vividly and precisely Stravinsky translated the stage action into musical terms. To take just one example, "Kashchei's Death" (just before the final Tableau) lets us hear the exact moment of the demon's demise: Tutti chord fff plus tam-tam (of course), followed by bass drum roll, pizzicato strings, and staccato woodwinds, then "Profound Darkness" ("Petrushka" harmony (C major chord for muted brass over tremulando on F sharp for timpani and basses). Every page of the score is packed with this kind of incredibly varied and resourceful orchestral detail. I haven't heard the rest of Dave's anointed Seven, but I'm tempted to investigate a couple of them, even though I didn't think I needed another Firebird...
I prefer the 1919 Suite to the 1945 because the 1945 has that choppy ending of the Finale... "chom, chom, chom, chom" etc. which are not as satisfying as the sustained chords of the 1919 Suite. You can build much more tension with the long chords, making them longer and louder as you head for the light at the end of the tunnel!
I've heard all those versions and still thought the final 'however' was leading to Ansermet. It's all personal taste in the end.
Most of the time...
Hello Dave, Are there any complete recordings of THE FIREBIRD that mixes the original with portions of the 1919 suite? I'm sure someone must of thought of doing this.
Not that I'm aware of.
Any comments on the OSM / MSO "Chuckles" Dutoit 1910 Firebird (+ Fireworks and Scherzo Fantasque)-?
The cd A La Russe by Kantorow has 3 beautiful firebird pieces arranged for solo piano, I strongly recommend you have a listen, I recently saw Kantorow live in Rotterdam where he performed the firebird finale as an encore, was absolutely stunning.
My one big problem with the 1945 Firebird suite is the grandiose section at the end where the chords are played separately and staccato-ish. It makes no sense whatsoever! It should be smooth and lyrical, like the before versions. Not fragmented and awkward. Ugh!
I'm listening to Stravinsky Conducts Stravinsky's The Firebird with the Columbia SO as we speak. It's interesting that this version didn't make the cut. Obviously, Stravinsky would've gotten this right. Is that different than getting it better?
You statement that Stravinsky "obviously" would have gotten it right is without basis in fact. Gotten what right? He got it right as a composer. As a conductor it's quite another matter.
I don't know a lot of Neeme recordings that are uninteresting. Doesn't matter which orchestra
Fortunately Ansermet is not in...😅
I don't remember the first one, but the later one is OK until the end, when the tempo drops like a stone, and so does the piece.
When Ansermet wasn't in, people would leave messages on his Anser-phone ;)
I liked the rehearsal LP more than the performance itself.
VERY sloppily performed, as i recall...