Thank you so much for this talk. I've grown up in the LP-aera with Bernstein's Stravinski - and now, I'm nearly lost for the interpretations of other conductors, so good they are. (Well, there are a few exceptions, but I can use the fingers of one hand to number them.) In my opinion, Bernstein just did it right. One can hear all motivic material, because the tempi aren't exaggerated. All is precise, rhythmically perfect, clear and sharp and has tension. Moreover, in Bernstein's interpretations, even the neoclassic works burst of colour. "Oedipus" especially - I never heard again such a chorus like the end of Part I / beginning of Part II. So many other conductors take the work as essay in classical stylization. With Bernstein, one makes the experience of the sheer horror of this tale. Concerning the "Symphony of Psalms" - I think, this is the best recording ever. The last bars, when time stands still, are incredible, and never again I heard such a balance of tension and quietness. I don't find the right words, but I guess, you know, what I mean. I am convinced that only a conductor, who is himself a real composer can understand the ideas in such a perfect, a glorious way. I mean: Bernstein does NOT exaggerate, as you pointed out, he just realizes the composers intentions. For me, this is THE box one must get to celebrate both, the composer and his conductor, and I hope that the DG does the same with their Stravinsky-Bernstein-recordings. Besides: If ever Tinnitus Classics runs out of money - do a complete recording of the "Rite" for solo-voice just sung by you (and, please, add the tam-tam) - THAT will save Tinnitus Classics forever.
That's exactly what I was going to say. If David could get into a studio and overdub himself singing all the parts to the Rite, I would buy it without hesitation. I'd also like to hear a similar rendition done by Family Guy's Peter Griffin.
OK HOLY BLEEP. I have to admit. I'd been following this vlog (and going through the backlog) for only a few months. so I totally never connected that I had 3 of your books (Delius, Mahler, Shostakovich) in my collection, along side your publisher contemporaries covering Tchaikovsky and Debussy, These books were among several that got me through the pandemic, a way to survive (aesthetically) the lockdown period. so, uh, yeah. Thank you.
The Hurwitz is a versatile instrument that can be played with a mallet, a bow and with some other standard instrument playing methods that might sound a tad obscene.
Saul Goodman was the Solo timpanist for the New York Philharmonic Orchestra for many years. I studied his book called Modern Method For Tympani when learning the proper technique of playing timpani myself. The late great Roland Kohloff took over later on. The 2 grips of the timpani mallets are either German Grip or French Grip. I use both myself
Your vocalizations of the Sacrificial Dance should henceforth be regarded as THE reference recording! Seriously, though, your discussion of it was fascinating. I have to say that I never found that "coda" to be a let-down, but I'm especially eager to hear Bernstein's treatment of it. This is what real quality music criticism can provide. Thank you! (BTW, I read Stephen Walsh's 2-volume biography of Stravinsky a couple of years ago, and it made it clear that Stravinsky was indeed NOT considered a particularly good conductor, and on that account, at least, his association with Robert Craft was absolutely beneficial.)
There is a DVD of a Saturday, April 8, 1972 Stravinsky Memorial concert by the London Symphony with Bernstein at Albert Hall. Just the day before they had recorded Symphony of Psalms, and three days earlier had recorded Sacre! Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra is also on the program with pianist Michel Béroff.
I really enjoy Bernstein's Stravinsky. The 1958 NPO is a great performance; my only issue is that I can hear the engineers 'riding gain' so that the tapes don't overload and the dynamic range is compromised. I really enjoy his recording with the Israel Philharmonic as well; it was an early introduction for me in the late 80's.
When I played my copy of Petrushka/Firebird from the box, the latter was missing and only Bernstein's talk would play last. Either there is a "locked groove" or they forgot to put Firebird on the disc.
One thing with Bernstein w/ Sony/Columbia/NYPhil and the recording quality is following how much he worked to improve the acoustics of Lincoln Center and Avery Fisher Hall in particular. A key thing with many of the recordings is if he could do a Young Persons Concert ahead of time, because when they did, they could work out the faults of the hall sound and work around them. So Bernstein/NYPO recordings of Holst, Stravinsky, Debussy (in particular, La Mer), Hindemith, the Mahler 4, even his NYPO Beethoven Cycle, and especially Copland, were given a plus by having made a rough recording for the Young Persons Concerts that they could analyze for flaws.
So "NYPO didn't have a venue" - during the 60s they did, Avery Fisher Hall, and while not perfect (it has undergone what, 3 revisions since 1960?) it did serve quite well for quite a few recordings.
Bonjour dear David! I just saw Bernstein Israel Phil 4 Stravinsky ballets at a great price. Are those interpretations as good as Ny and London? Would you recommend? I looked at classics insider and didn't found! Have a great weekend! Rui
The soloists you named for the mono discs were, I think, first desk players for the Boston Symphony. Burgin was the concertmaster. I look forward to hearing these works.
With all the Stravinsky I have this sounds like another mandatory purchase! I have the disc with my favorite Concerto for Piano and Winds. I also have Crossley/Salonen, Osborne/Volkov, and Bavouzet/Tortelier in this piece, but think Lipkin/Bernstein are still the best and better still the CD comes with that great Symphony of Psalms and delightful Pulcinella Suite. Hard to beat Bernstein in this repertoire!
Vaguely remember an "Inner Sleeve" article (remember those??) that said the LSO Rite was not going well and then Bernstein said "let's do it!" And the recording was done in one take. Please, be gentile.. this a vague memory. If can verify, please do!
I am strongly of the belief that conductors can sometimes know better than composers. I am referring to dynamics, tempi and phrasings. I don't believe that conductors must blindly be faithful to the score in these areas. Conductors simply have more realistic and precise understanding of how things sound in a real performance because they look at so many scores.
@@murraylow4523 I just heard it for the first time a couple of days ago from the new edition DG Stravinsky box and made it a point not to look up the text. A quick glance through the plot summary was TMI.
@@Don-md6wn I have listened to it twice in the last week - the Levine you listened to and the Ancerl. I thought the Levine was very good actually. But yes, why have a narrator if you expect people to understand the lyrics?! What did you make of the music?
@@murraylow4523 I've listened to the first 7 discs. About half of it is new to me, including all of discs 3, 4 and 6, and I have liked everything so far. The recordings all seem first rate to me.
If David is talking about a recording made when the NewYork Philharmonic had the late great Saul Goodman as their timpanist, then I agree wholeheartedly!!!!
@@DavesClassicalGuide The reason I mentioned Saul Goodman was because I studied to be a timpanist from his book called Modern Method For Timpani with my teacher who was the timpanist for the Peninsula Orchestra in Palo Alto, California in the late 60s.
Thank you so much for this talk. I've grown up in the LP-aera with Bernstein's Stravinski - and now, I'm nearly lost for the interpretations of other conductors, so good they are. (Well, there are a few exceptions, but I can use the fingers of one hand to number them.) In my opinion, Bernstein just did it right. One can hear all motivic material, because the tempi aren't exaggerated. All is precise, rhythmically perfect, clear and sharp and has tension. Moreover, in Bernstein's interpretations, even the neoclassic works burst of colour. "Oedipus" especially - I never heard again such a chorus like the end of Part I / beginning of Part II. So many other conductors take the work as essay in classical stylization. With Bernstein, one makes the experience of the sheer horror of this tale. Concerning the "Symphony of Psalms" - I think, this is the best recording ever. The last bars, when time stands still, are incredible, and never again I heard such a balance of tension and quietness. I don't find the right words, but I guess, you know, what I mean. I am convinced that only a conductor, who is himself a real composer can understand the ideas in such a perfect, a glorious way. I mean: Bernstein does NOT exaggerate, as you pointed out, he just realizes the composers intentions. For me, this is THE box one must get to celebrate both, the composer and his conductor, and I hope that the DG does the same with their Stravinsky-Bernstein-recordings.
Besides: If ever Tinnitus Classics runs out of money - do a complete recording of the "Rite" for solo-voice just sung by you (and, please, add the tam-tam) - THAT will save Tinnitus Classics forever.
Congratulations on the publication of your book!
I now know what we need for your 10,000th subscription is an entire vocal performance of just you doing the rite of spring LOL
Haha yes. A splendid idea :)
That's exactly what I was going to say. If David could get into a studio and overdub himself singing all the parts to the Rite, I would buy it without hesitation. I'd also like to hear a similar rendition done by Family Guy's Peter Griffin.
Please, don't encourage him. This is the stuff of the real Tinnitus Classics.
Wow!! This was a really great talk.
I think it is one of your best ever.
Keep on doing it this way.
Best wishes Fred
OK HOLY BLEEP. I have to admit. I'd been following this vlog (and going through the backlog) for only a few months.
so I totally never connected that I had 3 of your books (Delius, Mahler, Shostakovich) in my collection, along side your publisher contemporaries covering Tchaikovsky and Debussy,
These books were among several that got me through the pandemic, a way to survive (aesthetically) the lockdown period.
so, uh, yeah. Thank you.
I never wrote a book on Delius. Thank you for the rest, though.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Sibelius, my mistake. i was tired last night. :)
The Hurwitz is a versatile instrument that can be played with a mallet, a bow and with some other standard instrument playing methods that might sound a tad obscene.
I am looking forward to an issue of Hurwitz ringtones.
Saul Goodman was the Solo timpanist for the New York Philharmonic Orchestra for many years. I studied his book called Modern Method For Tympani when learning the proper technique of playing timpani myself. The late great Roland Kohloff took over later on. The 2 grips of the timpani mallets are either German Grip or French Grip. I use both myself
Your vocalizations of the Sacrificial Dance should henceforth be regarded as THE reference recording! Seriously, though, your discussion of it was fascinating. I have to say that I never found that "coda" to be a let-down, but I'm especially eager to hear Bernstein's treatment of it. This is what real quality music criticism can provide. Thank you! (BTW, I read Stephen Walsh's 2-volume biography of Stravinsky a couple of years ago, and it made it clear that Stravinsky was indeed NOT considered a particularly good conductor, and on that account, at least, his association with Robert Craft was absolutely beneficial.)
There is a DVD of a Saturday, April 8, 1972 Stravinsky Memorial concert by the London Symphony with Bernstein at Albert Hall. Just the day before they had recorded Symphony of Psalms, and three days earlier had recorded Sacre! Capriccio for Piano and Orchestra is also on the program with pianist Michel Béroff.
Love the site, happy insider… great review!
Thanks for watching!
I'm sure I'm not the only one who spotted that you did an excellent impression of Jean Cocteau's "Spectateurs!"
Oh, the rythm!! Thanks for yet a wonderful review.
You warm my hearth, Mr. Hurwitz!
I really enjoy Bernstein's Stravinsky. The 1958 NPO is a great performance; my only issue is that I can hear the engineers 'riding gain' so that the tapes don't overload and the dynamic range is compromised. I really enjoy his recording with the Israel Philharmonic as well; it was an early introduction for me in the late 80's.
When I played my copy of Petrushka/Firebird from the box, the latter was missing and only Bernstein's talk would play last. Either there is a "locked groove" or they forgot to put Firebird on the disc.
I had no problem with it.
One thing with Bernstein w/ Sony/Columbia/NYPhil and the recording quality is following how much he worked to improve the acoustics of Lincoln Center and Avery Fisher Hall in particular. A key thing with many of the recordings is if he could do a Young Persons Concert ahead of time, because when they did, they could work out the faults of the hall sound and work around them.
So Bernstein/NYPO recordings of Holst, Stravinsky, Debussy (in particular, La Mer), Hindemith, the Mahler 4, even his NYPO Beethoven Cycle, and especially Copland, were given a plus by having made a rough recording for the Young Persons Concerts that they could analyze for flaws.
So "NYPO didn't have a venue" - during the 60s they did, Avery Fisher Hall, and while not perfect (it has undergone what, 3 revisions since 1960?) it did serve quite well for quite a few recordings.
oh, and his "talk" about the plot was also something he did for the kids.
Bonjour dear David! I just saw Bernstein Israel Phil 4 Stravinsky ballets at a great price. Are those interpretations as good as Ny and London? Would you recommend? I looked at classics insider and didn't found! Have a great weekend! Rui
They are good, but no need to duplicate.
As Bernstein chided John McClure during the West Side Story documentary, “you got to do your homework!” Bernstein did his homework!
The soloists you named for the mono discs were, I think, first desk players for the Boston Symphony. Burgin was the concertmaster. I look forward to hearing these works.
Yes, they were.
With all the Stravinsky I have this sounds like another mandatory purchase! I have the disc with my favorite Concerto for Piano and Winds. I also have Crossley/Salonen, Osborne/Volkov, and Bavouzet/Tortelier in this piece, but think Lipkin/Bernstein are still the best and better still the CD comes with that great Symphony of Psalms and delightful Pulcinella Suite. Hard to beat Bernstein in this repertoire!
I had no trouble ordering your two Mozart books about a month or so ago.
Vaguely remember an "Inner Sleeve" article (remember those??) that said the LSO Rite was not going well and then Bernstein said "let's do it!" And the recording was done in one take. Please, be gentile.. this a vague memory. If can verify, please do!
I have never been gentile.
Yes I have read it too. It was made in one take.
@@DavesClassicalGuide And I sincerely respect you for that!
I am strongly of the belief that conductors can sometimes know better than composers. I am referring to dynamics, tempi and phrasings. I don't believe that conductors must blindly be faithful to the score in these areas.
Conductors simply have more realistic and precise understanding of how things sound in a real performance because they look at so many scores.
Texts for Oedipus Rex?
Only my translation: "Hey Oedipus, doesn't that lady look familiar?"
I think the whole point of Oedipus Rex is that you are not supposed to understand the words!
@@murraylow4523 I just heard it for the first time a couple of days ago from the new edition DG Stravinsky box and made it a point not to look up the text. A quick glance through the plot summary was TMI.
@@Don-md6wn I have listened to it twice in the last week - the Levine you listened to and the Ancerl. I thought the Levine was very good actually. But yes, why have a narrator if you expect people to understand the lyrics?!
What did you make of the music?
@@murraylow4523 I've listened to the first 7 discs. About half of it is new to me, including all of discs 3, 4 and 6, and I have liked everything so far. The recordings all seem first rate to me.
If David is talking about a recording made when the NewYork Philharmonic had the late great Saul Goodman as their timpanist, then I agree wholeheartedly!!!!
There's more to Stravinsky than the timpani part, but Goodman would have been timpanist in most of these recordings.
@@DavesClassicalGuide The reason I mentioned Saul Goodman was because I studied to be a timpanist from his book called Modern Method For Timpani with my teacher who was the timpanist for the Peninsula Orchestra in Palo Alto, California in the late 60s.
@@richardwilliams473 Aha!
No Svadebka?
He did it for DG
Didn't Stravinsky write an opera about the advancement of a leaf gatherer? I believe he called it THE "RAKE'S" PROGRESS !!!!!
Great review.
Did you really sing in a choir at one time? 😏
Are you kidding?
I'd pay good money for Dave's Rite of Spring 'um-chas um-cha um-cha um-cha um cha cha chas''
Indeed, and it wasn't until today that I realised that the "Rite" had lyrics :)
It caught my cat's attention and interrupted his grooming.