They are the lowest on the tree, they think that will save them and when they realise theyre not and get the shock of a life time it will be way too late
"Be aware there that there are no easy fixes to car surveillance." - There are. My three vehicles are a 1967 Land Rover, 1972 VW Camper and 1979 MG Midget.
@@regnadkcin6702 As workarounds go, though, it's pretty good. Plus insurance is cheap, I don't pay road tax, and as for depreciation, the Land Rover is probably worth three times what I paid in 1996.
Class actions don't do enough. Some law firm gets a lot of money. Consumers get an insignificant amount of money. The corporation continues to do the same or similar things, but finds ways to protect themselves from further class action suits in the future. We need fines based on annual revenue. Something like a beefed up version of what the EU has done. Rough idea: If a corporation breaks the rules, they pay out 20% of their annual revenue to the people they victimized. If there is any difficulty in accomplishing this, the executives, board members, and shareholders have their stocks used to make it right to the victims. Executives and board members also have their pay and severance packages completely diverted to compensating victims. If they choose to jump ship, they get prison time. If we have consequences like that, corporations will be terrified to violate our rights, and we will see actual progress.
@@CrazyBear65 crazy bear your 100% correct this tec 💩 s all over FERPA laws these protect students of all ages HIPPA laws protect your medical information and what about minors the most vulnerable of the population and the laws that protect 18 and unders data
We were looking for a replacement car. One dealer had what we wanted. Even though I was going to write a check for the car, they handed us a pile of papers to sign. I stopped signing when I realized one was an application for credit. They didn't want to let me take all the forms but I insisted so that MY lawyer could go over them. I called them back and refused to buy the car. One paper would have allowed them to sell any and all information on any of the forms. I can't say NO enough times.
Good for you! I was on a used car lot recently and the salesperson would not show a car until they got a credit application filled out and signed. Ridiculous.
Right before covid I went to buy a new pickup. Told the dealership that I wanted the truck but they would have to remove the connection to the internet. They said ford would never use you data against you and I said keep your truck then. I couldn't even get a regular remore starter. Internet only. I never bought the truck. These people can't be trusted.
These same parties also swore on their parents that black boxes would never be used against the owner. Of course they lied and are using it for many things including to prosecute the public. Any fool in the public that believes corporations, greedy criminals elite and especially these parasites call themselves so-called government actors are just that...FOOLS!!!!
I do NOT want a vehicle with this surveillance crap. I have an 18-year old Mercury Mariner, I wonder what it has? Might have to buy something older and pay more to keep it going. smh
It’s not just cars . Think of all the things that are sold today that connect to the internet and are accessible through apps . Ring doorbells , refrigerators, washer / dryers . Things I have often wondered “ why on earth would I need to access this thing from anywhere but at home .
Also, we have been tracked since the introduction of credit cards, more so when technology made it easier for banks to track us. Read the privacy policy of your bank. They share your banking activities with potential merchants to market to us. Not going political here, but it’s a known fact Bank of America shared with law enforce their customers credit card and debit card usage in the Washington DC Metro area the week of January 6, 2021
If you think driving some old junk isn't a trade off instead of changing consumer protection laws so we can drive what we want yer part of the problem.
"Is your ballpoint pen spying on you?" - Yes. "What about your organic avocados?" - also yes. "What about the used daipers in the hamper?" - believe it or not, also spies!
Wow! I had absolutely NO IDEA! We recently bought a new car. While at the dealer, we overheard a person ask a salesperson where the sim was located. The man left without buying the car because they laughed at him. I’m disgusted! Thank you so much for this vital information
I have been saying this about vehicles since they could be scanned for engine and components in the 1990's. That is the second highest factor why I have never purchased a new vehicle . I value my privacy and those that I love.
Yeah, I don't even want anything that will refuse a part based on vendor signatures. The moment they started tying it all into one bus with serialized part IDs, I knew anti-consumer practices would follow... & boy have they ever!
Louis Rossman has gone over this before, he explained how the car companies would make ads that basically said that independent repair providers could snoop through your data and collect you information fpr stalking. I always wondered why that data was kept in the first place. Now I know. Luckily my car is too old for this stuff.
you got to wonder why Hertz isn't making bank selling the data of all their renters who plug their phone into the rental. Instead they resort to gas charges for Tesla rentals.
My wife asked me why I was suddenly upgrading my 2002 car to include a whole host of features that would have been included on a new one: "I'm not getting a new car until they make it illegal for them to collect data on you and sell it." Also, I really like my current vehicle, it just needs some tweaks.
I went old school. After trying to buy a jeep and a bronco just to have the dealerships try to take advantage of me. I got a 86 toy 4x4. I love it and it’s on its way to 150% better than new when finished.
Sure, all you need is to find an attorney that will take on the case. The first thing the attorney will have to do is figure out who has standing in a court of law. Now, given that the Supreme court has in the past ruled that States suiting the Federal government on behalf of their citizens, do not have Standing in court to uphold and enforce the Constitution of the United States, makes this extremely difficult. They made this judgment because they claimed that the States did not have injury in a first Amendment case. The Supreme Court has this wrong. In a Constitutional Republic, and in a government of the people, by the people, and for the people; every citizen and every State has standing in court to uphold and enforce the Constitution of the United States whenever the Federal government violates the Constitution. The violation of the Constitution is injury enough for any citizen or State to have standing. There need not be any monetary or property injury for we the people to have standing in Court to uphold and enforce the Constitution of the United States.
A class action lawsuit probably wouldn’t do anything. Most likely they covered their butts in the TOC. What we really need is legislation passed to prevent this from happening. Most likely it will start in the EU first given their pro consumer stances on things like privacy.
It's simple. Congress needs to stop targeting specific companies and just do the following. 1. Bar the storage, transmission, and/or accessing of American data from overseas. 2. Require the explicit consent of users for their data to be gathered. 3. Bar companies from preventing users from even being able to use their service if a user does not consent.
They’re already breaking laws. Why do you think this would stop them. Just like the Do Not Call lists years ago it did nothing. Plus it’s way more complicated than that. Even if it stay in the country I still don’t want them to have any information.
Our politicians are in the dark ages, too busy bickering with each other and fighting for power. The cobwebs gather on them as they get further and further out of touch with technology.
Congress doesn't do sh** for Americans any more. They WANT this data collection, so they can track everyone. Insurance companies pay congress more than we do; they'll get this data automatically sent to them eventually. Dash Cams are great (I have one) but how long do you think it'll be before they mandate them? Cops will have "probable cause" to get the data whenever there's an accident. Look on YT or research Ring Doorbells and Police, or Ring Doorbells and FBI. Certain cities (Myrtle Beach, SC) taxes your property based on your property's inventory (new leather couch, TV, etc). They assume this is related to you renting out your property. I recall one story where, "if you don't allow us to inventory your house, we're going to tax you at a higher rate" - so you allowed them in, to get the lower property tax rate. Eventually this will apply to cars: You'll allow us to track you, so you can get a lower rate (it's all BS). The Health Ins company will increase your rates because you buy Pizza every week, or Car Ins rates go up because you go to the bar every Friday (think Cops want to know that too? Track you, know when you leave?) It's coming. It's just a matter of time.
The whole surveillance thing is among the reasons I drive an old car. Mainly though, I like the incredible durability of a manual transmission. Saving $$ and helping tank the consumer culture through greater self-sufficiency🤣
Most cars pre 2010 won't have these things. And opting for more analog head units that don't require you to plug your phone into it is another option. These things are quite easy to avoid.
We need to make holding data a liability. If the punishment for collecting data is high enough, data becomes a liability. It is sad that my data is considered an asset.
I disagree. The only way is they didn't collect data in the first place, let alone selling it to data brokers, which could be people with nefarious intentions. Life is never that easy though. Why do they need 8B+ in "record breaking profits"? it's never bad to have a little greed with moderation because it can serve as a motivator but too much is... well, you see it already.
I just want a car that gets me to places efficiently and comfortably. That should be the whole point of a car. Not to connect to the internet. not to be a computer.
Hey, I put a computer in my truck & it was _great._ Probably because _I_ put it there, & it only did what _I_ asked for, & it wasn't networked to every other part of the vehicle! These machines don't need to be logging our data; feature diversity is _not_ dependant on data leakage.
You can try to opt out by telling the car company to stop recording the data from your car or stop receiving it or to configure the car’s transmitter to stop sending it. Good luck with any of those. Your trump card, however, is the car’s antennas. If you disconnect an antenna, all of this stuff stops working, and it’s really hard for electronics to detect that an antenna is no longer present. In my car at least, there are separate antennas and antenna cables for satcom, GPS, cellular and FM and AM radios. You don’t have to remove an antenna, just disconnect its cable from the head end.
That isn't always an option with today's electronics. For example, look at the Raspberry Pi computer. There is no visible antenna that you can disconnect, yet it has WiFi.
Yeah, & my Raspbian build still shows up periodically on my surveillance logs even though the Bluetooth & WiFi are turned "off". Hardware air gap switch, or GTFO with claims of "security".
I added an aftermarket radio to a 2019 Chevy express and there was no reason to have the data anymore. It had error codes when the sim was removed. I ended up cutting the wire to the mic and unplugging the gps and satellite antennas. Then added a dummy antenna so it didn’t know it was unplugged. Lots of work to not have big brother
>implying the western economy isn't just a command economy with more steps Let's just face it, only a few multinational companies control nearly 99% of your life. And the government will just give them free money if nobody buys their shit.
The simple answer is to stop buying cars with open internet portals. If enough people tell car makers thst rhe reason for not buying is this issue, they will have to remove it. I used to hold a job that required my going into sites operated by contractors to the Department of Defence. Part of the clearance to enter was that I could not have anything with me that was taking pictures or sending data.
Car privacy is a huge headache to deal with and there are no real options for us to ask the dealer to remove the on board infotainment system because its so tightly integrated with the entire driving system. It would be nice if we could have a privacy friendly third party infotainment system that we can replace the stock one with. Another option is if we can get a system where we can control the network activity of the stock built in infotainment system, like a pi hole for the car or a vpn for the car.
There absolutely is an option to remove all of that equipment. That option is called "buy a vehicle that was made before that equipment was invented." The average age of vehicles in service has been climbing for decades, and for good reason. Newer vehicles are not better to own than older vehicles are, and they are not functionally more valuable than a vehicle that has a few years and miles under it.
@@asishreddy7729 hahahah that is not even remotely true. The average age of vehicles in use is over 15 years now, that means half of people out there want cars that are older than 15 years old. New cars are not even more comfortable than older cars, because this suspension is so stiff every bump in the road will bounce you around the cabin. Older cars are more comfortable to ride on rough roads because they were designed for rougher roads.
@@AlexandarHullRichterWrong. This is only because the average American makes like 30k a year before taxes. People are broke, and old cars are rusting away. Car sales growth has actually stopped so the US market seems to be saturated but there are still many many people buying or leasing new cars.
@@AlexandarHullRichterWrong. This is only because the average American makes like 30k a year before taxes. People are broke, and old cars are rusting away. Car sales growth has actually stopped so the US market seems to be saturated but there are still many many people buying or leasing new cars.
I purchased a 2016 Ford Taurus SHO in January 2020. In November 2020 I was coming home from food shopping. I was driving 60 mph in a 65 mph, when approximately 2 miles from my house, the car took over and began driving its self autonomously. The steering wheel flew from my grasp, buy its self, and swerved the car instantly into the oncoming traffic lane, holding a straight line, while accelerating simultaneously. I tried to turn the steering wheel to get the car back in my lane, but I couldn’t budge it. The wheel felt as if it was locked, I couldn’t overcome it. With both feet, smashing down on the breaks, as hard as I could, the car continued accelerating from 60 to 75 in a matter of seconds. I was lucky, there was no oncoming traffic at that time. I'm alive to tell the story because I grabbed the shifter and threw it into park, but the second I depressed the detent, the computer let go, and I regained control in that instant. The whole ordeal only lasted a few seconds, but it felt like a lifetime. These cars and heavy trucks can download driving instructions on their own, autonomously. Your enemies and mine, can hack into them and kill you, i.e. drive you head on into on coming traffic, or steal it remotely, in complete secrecy from any distance.
What about your refrigerator, television, computer, phone, home security system, any "connected" appliances , and so on. The can of worms has been opened. It cannot be "un"opened.
@@tardisrider25 Exactly. I’m not buying or using stuff that require me to sign terms of service that I do not understand or agree to. We need to stop lying on terms of service. Saying we understand and agree when we don’t is not truthful and it’s only harming ourselves.
Naomi, I'm a little disappointed that you haven't vetted things properly. In regards to the vehicle privacy report site, on a lark I decided to enter the VIN for my 2007 Toyota Matrix. Note that this vehicle has NO connectivity AT ALL. There's no onstar type feature, no moving map (car doesn't even have a GPS antenna). The head unit plays CDs and FM/AM radio, that's it. There's no cellular modem in the car, the only SIM is the one in my phone. No bluetooth, no WIFI. Nothing. The ONLY data collection is the airbag computer, which you have to rip out and physically connect to if you want to read it. The vehicle privacy report site, on entering my VIN (which correctly identified it as a 2007 Toyota Matrix) labelled my car: "This car is like a "hard-drive on wheels", which utterly not true (again, only data storage is the ABS module, no hard drive in there, probably a meg or two of flash memory at most). The site then claims Toyota collects 'Identifiers, Biometrics, Location and User Profiles'. That utterly false. Biometrics? How!!?? The car doesn't have a sensor for that. Now, they DO label that section 'Toyota Data Practices', but that's disingenuous since while Toyota might have those practices, my car doesn't send any data to Toyota, so why would any of those practices matter to me? Honestly I think you should create a follow-up mentioning how misleading this site is, especially to people who don't understand things (which of course is why they would normally find your content so important and useful)
@repatch43 there is a whole lot more in that car that you think! In 1993 my neighbor was a third party in an accident, the "victim driver's" car rolled over my neighbor's car after being T-boned by a speeder. Ohio Highway Patrol came to them to get a waiver to download the data in their 1989 Toyota while it was in impound, the data they got allowed them to verify the speed and location of that car at the moment of impact and helped them reconstruct the event for evidence in court. Computer chips in all manner of systems in cars store info that is totally separate from the prime function,and have for about 35 years now. The chips are just more powerful now,so they store even more data.
@@user-pu3mr8xv4m No, there isn't a whole lot more in my car than I think. I'm very aware of what's in my car. What you are describing is the data in the SRS (airbag) module. That module records the parameters you speak of. It's what I alluded to in my post. I'm very aware it exists, which is why I alluded to it. I'm (mostly) OK with it since where I am it requires a warrant to get the data from it, and that data can only be retrieved by physically hooking up to the module, there is no wireless access. I'd prefer it not be present, but having a working airbag is more important to me.
@@scotth9828unfortunately if you unplug the OnStar module on a GM car it will mean you can't start the car. You also have to jumper out the wires in the connector to bypass the module.
I entered the VIN number on the mentioned website and it reported: This car is like a “hard-drive on wheels”, which surprised me a lot. My car is an Opel (Vauxhall) Astra from 1998 and has no internet, SIM, Bluetooth, phone connection, cloud-based media, GPS, navigation, OBD2 or anything of the sort. The only thing that I can think of is that the airbag electronics record speed and acceleration information.
The '98 Astra's OBDII port is concealed in the center console, under the handbrake lever. Accelerator, brake, power steering, & load-based engine calibration data (among other things), are all fed through the car's computer, but I don't recall which data is logged.
@@prophetzarquon1922 I know the location of the data connector, but what I meant is that the Astra-G only became EOBD/OBD2 compliant starting with the 2001 model year, i.e., those built after September 1, 2000. The 1998 Opel Astra is a bit of a transitional model in terms of diagnostic systems. While later models adopted the standardized OBD-II protocol, many 1998 models used a proprietary system. For the 1998 Opel Astra, it is likely to have an OBD-I port using Opel's proprietary diagnostic protocol, sometimes referred to as Op-com or Opel-com. This system is not fully OBD-II compliant and requires specialized diagnostic tools compatible with Opel's proprietary protocols.
@@prophetzarquon1922 I know the location of the data connector, but what I meant is that the Astra-G only became EOBD/OBD2 compliant starting with the 2001 model year, i.e., those built after September 1, 2000. The 1998 Opel Astra is a bit of a transitional model in terms of diagnostic systems. While later models adopted the standardized OBD-II protocol, many 1998 models used a proprietary system. For the 1998 Opel Astra, it is likely to have an OBD-I port using Opel's proprietary diagnostic protocol, sometimes referred to as Op-com or Opel-com. This system is not fully OBD-II compliant and requires specialized diagnostic tools compatible with Opel's proprietary protocols.
The amount of Easter Eggs in this video is astounding! All of the organizations listed. The shark and words for its description about the industry and your data - so clever! LOL. Hilarious!
I dug into this after reading your new book and because of the last video on this topic. Just to be sure my car really was in the clear. Now I can say with certainty that the only information gathered by my 2011 Town Car is the SiriusXM channels I listen too. I can live with that...
@@MrHarrilasagnadefinitely a good technique using after market radio not linked to the computers in the automobile. With how integrated in the dash the radio is with everything else used to control the automobile I wonder if you can install an aftermarket radio?
Great video! I had no idea what's going on with cars and data collection. It's one of those things that unless you actually think about it, you don't think about it. "out of sight, out of mind" as it were.
@@prophetzarquon1922 Sorry mate, but you're memory is skewed. I remember essentially everyone in America hiding in their houses with masks on. Even the fully armed population of the US were completely compliant and obedient. It'll be the same next time too.
@@steely1neverwane Self isolation is _not_ a lockdown! Don't conflate _(partial)_ compliance, with enforced captivity (which _did_ happen in some parts of the world)!
@@steely1neverwanesorry to you mate, but you know squat.. i live in Iowa and was never locked down, went to work everyday.. a lot less people were out and about but we were never locked down.
When i bought a 3rd gen taco, the base model had a decent enough system with Bluetooth and steering wheel controls and ports, cd, backup cam, 6 speakers, etc. The upper trims all had a head unit with android auto, apple carplay, nav, all of it. Toyota had to do system updates to get it to work properly. One of the reasons i was glad i got the base model is because in the users manual it talks about how much info about you, including all your nav data, is stored in the upper trim head unit, and downloaded by toyota every time you bring it in for warranty service. My truck just does what i need it to, nothing else. No sim. That website in the video does NOT properly use the vin to identify what trim level, and therefore which head unit, the vehicle has, which is the biggest contributor to how much privacy is being sacrificed.
I keep getting annoying pop ups from Microsoft, Android, Samsung etc... telling me my location data is not precise and i should turn it on for better service. I ignore them, but they never stop.
Yeah. Aside from supporting more devices per antenna (as a cost-saving & scalability measure that carriers wanted), more precise location accuracy is the big win for 5G networks, so far as monetized surveillance is concerned. The same properties that make 5G bands so flaky, make it excellent for location finding!
Do a visual only check for a device which is usually under the passenger seat (it is also occasionally behind the center dash). That vehicle metrics device is one whole lot of metrics. It cannot be removed or bypassed. Attempting to do so will be making the vehicle a tow back to the dealership. It records metrics in case one is in accident. Your own vehicle (one for which you could have paid for in full??) can actually be used to testify against you.
I'm not worried. Being someone that DOESN'T need the latest shiny thing, I drive a dirt simple, VERY WELL maintained 22 year old Civic. Not infotainment, nothing. I love that car! It starts, it's dirt reliable, and it carries my a$$ anywhere I need to go. I've been aware of all this for a LOOOONG time, as I work in tech.
Don't worry, I'm sure they won't sell the data! P.S. Although, I bet that only applies for the consumers who use the correct pronunciation of data, which IS, "DAY--TA"! So, they may well sell the information out of spite, but only, for those folk who abuse the English language, by saying, "daa-taa". 🤣🤣🤣
And when the nag-ware notices when you start the car doesn't deter consumers from removing the SIM, the designers will put up more blocks to disabling it, such as adding a non-removable (backup) eSIM. And when people figure out how to block those too, the designers will prevent the car from starting in the first place. This will NEVER stop until there is equivalent to legislation to credit data reporting laws. There will be many lobbyists using false equivalency and straw man arguments that collecting this data saves lives. But this kind of privacy protection MUST be passed. Yes, laws like that will absolutely destroy the current firehose data market. I'm fine with that.
The thing is, it isn't gonna happen. Data collection comes part & parcel of connectivity, & there are no unconnected automobiles anymore. Data even gets harvested during service, without any wireless at all. Plus, public roads are a public place, with "no reasonable expectation of privacy"; so, any driving on public roads is fair game for anyone to log, & security camera aggregation systems can already do that, searching out a single vehicle across millions of doorbell & security cameras. Even without traffic cameras, traffic gets tracked. An automobile in a public place, isn't private. The fact that automobiles aren't private even on private land anymore, _is_ a legitimate issue, but privacy & public roads are anathematic.
I unfortunately did not find this video valuable, it’s actually invaluable! It’s groundbreaking and eye opening. Our privacy is constantly being more vulnerable. Knowing about this is key to our awareness. Thanks a lot!
I think this is a limited way of looking at the issue, and it only makes the situation worse. First of all, yes governments want your data, but companies also want your data. The government is not making companies do this stuff. Companies are collecting your data because they make money off doing that. If they offer to allow the government access to that data, then the government is less likely to introduce legislation to limit or stop them from doing it. Second, both governments and companies are just groups of people. People absolutely want that information. Some of those people are in government positions. Some of those people are in the private sector running companies. As soon as you start making distinctions that one abstract group of people is "the one" you need to look out for, you let the other groups off the hook. It is a known and age old tactic that if you get consumers fighting amongst themselves over who to blame, they won't come together to come up with real solutions and solve the real problems. You as an individual should own your own data. Period. Arguing over which entity is "the bad guy" trying to collect it is a distraction. Stop ALL groups from collecting any of YOUR data that YOU did not explicitly allow them to collect. That should be the agenda.
@@neekondrums An individual's data should fall under copyright law. Copyright technically comes into existence upon creation of the work. It's difficult to prosecute without registering the copyright. Solving that problem may be an avenue to pursue.
@@Jizzlewobbwtfcus It wasn’t “obvious” what you said… because you didn’t mention companies, you mentioned governments. Companies have much more use for your data than the government does.
I have a really effective and simple fix - keep your old car on the road instead of blindly consuming buying flashy new car. My car can't sell me out because it does not have the technology. My phone probably is still selling me out though
I note that the head end for my 2018 Subaru Forester has a cable labelled GPS. Disconnecting the GPS cable from the head end should break the vehicles location tracking, and to the vehicle electronics it will just look like really bad reception, so it shouldn’t break any features except the navigation, which I prefer to use on my personal devices anyway. Disconnecting the WIFI antenna can probably be done just as well. One may be able to opt out of cellular data tracking by disconnecting that antenna.
This trend makes me happy I have an older model that has no internet unless I turn on sharing on the bluetooth from my phone. It's a pain to update the map using an SD card once a year, but certainly worth not sharing data. At least the traffic data is only one way, since Sirius hasn't gone to the expense of bidirectional data.
So, if all companies in an industry set a particular price it is illegal, but if all companies give you no other option than to share your data if you use their product its completely okay. I can live without social media, but in the necessary transportation industry, it is a blatant abuse.
While I do have a 2018 vehicle, it does pop up with a message every month to see if i am fine with it collecting data for traffic info as it says, and it auto opts out of the data collection, and makes me accept it if i choose to. While obviously you would not want it to collect your info, i do appreciate that it does opt out by itself, and not just always collecting data with just a prompt once and good luck finding out how to sign out of it!
@@davidmcglone409 Hence the reason of me saying that it would be obvious that it should be a no from the get go. I do like the fact that it gives me some control vs nothing at all! Is it perfect? No, but slightly better than the latter.
@@repatch43 There will always be a choice. Even if most cars are riddled with surveillance. The first and most obvious is to never plug our phones into them, and put duct tape over all the cameras or destroy them, if needed. Either that or you could just rip out the head unit, which is where most of the data is, then get it replaced for something else, if you're that serious.
@@Casey2262 Ripping out the head unit isn't an option in more an more vehicles. The reason is controls for all the major components of the car are moving to the head unit. Tesla is the extreme example where nearly EVERYTHING is controlled by the touchscreen of the head unit. Other cars are following. So no, if you want a new car, you won't have a choice very soon.
@@repatch43 You assume there won't be any privacy focused car companies in future that won't operate the same way, as more and more people wake up to this particular stuff. So yes, there will still be options, no matter what.
@@Casey2262 Yes, I assume that, for the simple reason that despite what many think, the car industry is VERY small margin, with MASSIVE capital requirements. The 'wants privacy' consumer base will NEVER be big enough to fill the margin lost to not selling your customers data. I guess we'll see. Suffice it to say, that the industry is moving in the wrong direction, and the newest players are BY FAR the worst offenders.
There is a guy that bought a corolla with no loan. They still installed a tracker on his car. Plus the stupid thing drains the battery if you don't drive for a few days.
@@tomtom1541 There's plenty of used OBD-1 cars that only have a single ECU. ABS modulators don't store any data. Many vehicles do have a telemetry module linked with the airbag system that will record what the vehicle was doing right before a collision.
_*all US vehicles sold in the last several decades_ do have a telemetry module linked with the airbag system that will record what the vehicle was doing right before a collision. (& the computer's modest memory is more than sufficient to retain a surprisingly extensive history of that data)
Just uninstall the entire infotainment center, and replace with a good old fashioned Bluetooth headunit ..you can easily retrifit a backup camera and gps for very little money...
On some cars, the box that records things with the SIM is on it's own fuse, you can temporarily shut if off by yanking the fuse until you get around to removing the SIM.
Find the antenna and remove it. That shouldn't affect the interaction between the car and the s card. People Fail to read the purchase agreement that they signed. It's in there. the purchaser agreed to it by signing the document. Until it is paid off the words in the agreement remain in force. And if it's a leased car, well, fhugetabout it.
Isn't it funny that my 1985 Toyota van collects nothing but good gas mileage and 234,000 miles of reliable service? The way it should be. That's almost 40 years of doing what vehicles should do, and I can (and have) actually work on it myself!😉👍👍👍
Side note: Remember that "your" device IDs are only _circumstantial_ evidence of your activity, & that both spoofing & remote-control, are each very common & almost impossible to disprove.
Removing the SIM card does not prevent them from tracking your location. Just an FYI. As part of the protocol, cellular modems do a check-in to the towers. There are several reasons they do this. Part of it, if I remember correctly, is to figure out how much power to output from the radio as cellular radios back off their power if they're within range. This is why if you live in a rural area your cell phone battery lasts a little bit less than they do in a city because you're not near any towers. On top of the check-in it does deliver some amount of data I think it's like the cellular modems IMEI number.
If this was any other kind of privacy, people lose their mind -- but with tech, everyone just allows it. In reality we have no choice, except to not use the product.
I've got nothing to worry about. I didn't do any naughty stuff. I read the manual and cleared the nav, phone, location tracking, and driving history before selling. I never rent, there will most likely be a second tracker for the repo.
There is. I downloaded their spec sheet. Alas they are more into muscle cars. They also have those gadgets that say the car is going slow, and not very far. Wonder how that will work on these scum. Damn he drives 10 miles a month. Spends a lot of time at the gas station. Must work there.
- In friends' cars or those I rent, the connection drops (it's maaagic) - I buy used cars made before "data theft" - But if I had to buy a new car, how could I do it? I could launch a MITM attack, making the car connect not to home, but to a hostspot created ad hoc by me (Pinepple or similar), to which it can connect to a local network in the car, offline, or to a home server that acts as a filter and only lets through what I want. It depends on what I need and the type of impediment that is implemented when it is offline.
I drive a car from before the age of telemetry and infotainment screens. I intend to keep it running as long as possible, or at least until privacy laws are enforced.
There is a very easy fix to car and other surveillance by private actors. The fix is to literally ban all private surveillance with zero loopholes and severe criminal penalties for all executive level decision makers such as a minimum of ten years in prison for a first offense. There is absolutely no valid reason why any private entity would need to conduct random unwarranted surveillance of any other private entity.
Wonder if the BlueDriver app used to connect with the OBD-II port to analyze my car and get codes uses the information from it to sell to 3rd-parties. Hmmmm. It didn’t require location data to use it on an iPhone but when I borrowed it to someone with an Android phone it required that location services be turned on in order to use it. That seems very sketchy considering that it shouldn’t need that information at all to diagnose your automobile’s condition.
I would like to suggest pulling fuses, instead, but automotive manufacturers have almost certainly put those in circuit with something that you actually need, like headlights or speedometer or the fuel pump.
The biggest problem is ppl saying "ive got nothing to hide" It drives me wild.
Definitely the craziest excuse to accept tyranny ever
Ignorance
My reply to that is always "Please give me all the details of your bank accounts, and I'll put an ad in the paper listing them".
They are the lowest on the tree, they think that will save them and when they realise theyre not and get the shock of a life time it will be way too late
A mind that makes that argument is a mind incapable of grasping any distinction between Secrecy and Seclusion.
It's despicable that you PAY for the car and then the company uses YOUR PURCHASE to rake money off you by selling bits of your life.
Wouldn't be so bad you got the car for a couple thousand.
Then let’s force them to pay us demand 50% for all retroactive sales and all future sales
@@TheShytallica yeah, good luck with that one 😂😂
Privacy is a human right.
If a person is dumb enough to buy a car from a dealership especially a newer car -- they are dumb enough to have their information stolen
"Be aware there that there are no easy fixes to car surveillance." - There are. My three vehicles are a 1967 Land Rover, 1972 VW Camper and 1979 MG Midget.
Yeah, but very few people are willing to go back to an old pile.
No thats not a fix. You just havent entered the timezone the problem lives in yet. One day youll be dragged in. They can wait.
@@Elemblue2 Not if I die before they manage that.
That is not a way to fix a modern car from collecting data, that is just driving an old car.
@@regnadkcin6702 As workarounds go, though, it's pretty good. Plus insurance is cheap, I don't pay road tax, and as for depreciation, the Land Rover is probably worth three times what I paid in 1996.
There needs to be a class action suit against every car manufacturer that collects and sells your private data without your knowledge to stop this .
Class actions don't do enough. Some law firm gets a lot of money. Consumers get an insignificant amount of money. The corporation continues to do the same or similar things, but finds ways to protect themselves from further class action suits in the future. We need fines based on annual revenue. Something like a beefed up version of what the EU has done.
Rough idea: If a corporation breaks the rules, they pay out 20% of their annual revenue to the people they victimized. If there is any difficulty in accomplishing this, the executives, board members, and shareholders have their stocks used to make it right to the victims. Executives and board members also have their pay and severance packages completely diverted to compensating victims. If they choose to jump ship, they get prison time. If we have consequences like that, corporations will be terrified to violate our rights, and we will see actual progress.
According to Lehto's Law channel people have sued Honda and Ford. The courts sided with the manufacturer in both suits.
Against every company collecting data on people.
So every carmaker is being sued 😅
@@christianmbabazi9722 yeah
They need to pass a law requiring companies that collect and sell our data to pay a royalty to us monthly.
"Laws" are a joke.
@@CrazyBear65 crazy bear your 100% correct this tec 💩 s all over FERPA laws these protect students of all ages HIPPA laws protect your medical information and what about minors the most vulnerable of the population and the laws that protect 18 and unders data
You're absolutely right.
They did. It subsidises the initial sale price
"They"...didn't get elected to protect your interests. "They" were put there to do the opposite.
We were looking for a replacement car. One dealer had what we wanted. Even though I was going to write a check for the car, they handed us a pile of papers to sign. I stopped signing when I realized one was an application for credit. They didn't want to let me take all the forms but I insisted so that MY lawyer could go over them. I called them back and refused to buy the car. One paper would have allowed them to sell any and all information on any of the forms. I can't say NO enough times.
Please share the name of this dealership.
That is an excellent point. More people need to insist on walking away with legal documents so they have an opportunity to at least read comfortably.
Good for you! I was on a used car lot recently and the salesperson would not show a car until they got a credit application filled out and signed. Ridiculous.
@@Jennifer-nz2sssecond amendment is the right to bear arms...
Buy in the private market and pay cash. Get a signed receipt.
Right before covid I went to buy a new pickup. Told the dealership that I wanted the truck but they would have to remove the connection to the internet. They said ford would never use you data against you and I said keep your truck then. I couldn't even get a regular remore starter. Internet only. I never bought the truck. These people can't be trusted.
For the cost of a new truck, I can rebuild my 25 year old Chevy 4-5 times.
These same parties also swore on their parents that black boxes would never be used against the owner. Of course they lied and are using it for many things including to prosecute the public. Any fool in the public that believes corporations, greedy criminals elite and especially these parasites call themselves so-called government actors are just that...FOOLS!!!!
I do NOT want a vehicle with this surveillance crap. I have an 18-year old Mercury Mariner, I wonder what it has? Might have to buy something older and pay more to keep it going. smh
I don’t need a remote starter😂
Trust no one !!
It’s not just cars . Think of all the things that are sold today that connect to the internet and are accessible through apps . Ring doorbells , refrigerators, washer / dryers . Things I have often wondered “ why on earth would I need to access this thing from anywhere but at home .
My thoughts exactly.
Most “smart home” devices are cringey as hell, barely useful, and add nothing to the original’s functionality that was needed.
Our TV’s are listening too. Go into the settings app on your tv. Turn off microphone.
Junk your ring doorbell if you have one...
Also, we have been tracked since the introduction of credit cards, more so when technology made it easier for banks to track us. Read the privacy policy of your bank. They share your banking activities with potential merchants to market to us. Not going political here, but it’s a known fact Bank of America shared with law enforce their customers credit card and debit card usage in the Washington DC Metro area the week of January 6, 2021
They use your routers for sonar in your house. They have all the layouts on file
My car was built in 1991, no wifi, sim card, OBD-II port, android auto. Safety equipment includes brakes and seat belts. 😊
As it should be
Android auto is the same thing 😂 if you use that you are giving up all that info to alphabet
1984 Ford F150. Most high tech thing on my truck is the carburetor.
If you think driving some old junk isn't a trade off instead of changing consumer protection laws so we can drive what we want yer part of the problem.
@@cobrafpv2334 Learn to read
Whenever Naomi ask if something in tech is spying on us the answer is "Yes!"
"Is your ballpoint pen spying on you?"
- Yes.
"What about your organic avocados?"
- also yes.
"What about the used daipers in the hamper?"
- believe it or not, also spies!
True story lol
@@bc4yt avocado exposé coming soon, I'm sure of it... 😹
@@NaomiBrockwellTV I like the fact you made an effort to put the accent over the é... A woman of culture!
@@NaomiBrockwellTVNot Avacadoes? They are so good!
Wow! I had absolutely NO IDEA! We recently bought a new car. While at the dealer, we overheard a person ask a salesperson where the sim was located. The man left without buying the car because they laughed at him. I’m disgusted!
Thank you so much for this vital information
Good on him for asking!! They probably laughed because they didn't realize there was a SIM, or even an eSIM!
I have been saying this about vehicles since they could be scanned for engine and components in the 1990's. That is the second highest factor why I have never purchased a new vehicle . I value my privacy and those that I love.
Yeah, I don't even want anything that will refuse a part based on vendor signatures. The moment they started tying it all into one bus with serialized part IDs, I knew anti-consumer practices would follow... & boy have they ever!
Louis Rossman has gone over this before, he explained how the car companies would make ads that basically said that independent repair providers could snoop through your data and collect you information fpr stalking. I always wondered why that data was kept in the first place. Now I know. Luckily my car is too old for this stuff.
Yep, after watching his video I ended up disconnecting by onstar module and my phone is not connected and never been to it.
is it easy?@@PumpkinKingXXIII
@@TryMeFoolYT it was on mine, on my truck their was one wire under the dash right by the center console. I didn’t even have to pull a panel.
you got to wonder why Hertz isn't making bank selling the data of all their renters who plug their phone into the rental. Instead they resort to gas charges for Tesla rentals.
I drive a 2002:-)
What a company or agency says about "valuing your privacy" means nothing unless they prove it.
Companies that aren't harvesting your data don't need to make such statements 👍
No they "VALUE" your privacy - for whatever they can sell to the highest bidder(s) .. Not really your privacy, but any data that they can collect..
Likewise, they receive money to "share" your information with "trusted partners" which cannot be trusted.
No it means they have placed a valuation on your privacy and it was probably only a couple dollars. They value that.
It usually means the exact opposite.
My wife asked me why I was suddenly upgrading my 2002 car to include a whole host of features that would have been included on a new one: "I'm not getting a new car until they make it illegal for them to collect data on you and sell it."
Also, I really like my current vehicle, it just needs some tweaks.
I went old school. After trying to buy a jeep and a bronco just to have the dealerships try to take advantage of me. I got a 86 toy 4x4. I love it and it’s on its way to 150% better than new when finished.
It’s time to get a class action lawsuit going!!!
Sure, all you need is to find an attorney that will take on the case.
The first thing the attorney will have to do is figure out who has standing in a court of law.
Now, given that the Supreme court has in the past ruled that States suiting the Federal government on behalf of their citizens, do not have Standing in court to uphold and enforce the Constitution of the United States, makes this extremely difficult. They made this judgment because they claimed that the States did not have injury in a first Amendment case.
The Supreme Court has this wrong. In a Constitutional Republic, and in a government of the people, by the people, and for the people; every citizen and every State has standing in court to uphold and enforce the Constitution of the United States whenever the Federal government violates the Constitution. The violation of the Constitution is injury enough for any citizen or State to have standing. There need not be any monetary or property injury for we the people to have standing in Court to uphold and enforce the Constitution of the United States.
@@scotttoveyYou are correct in you assessment. But I doubt that will change anything.
@@scotttovey
lawyers will go after anything if there’s enough money involved!
A class action lawsuit probably wouldn’t do anything. Most likely they covered their butts in the TOC.
What we really need is legislation passed to prevent this from happening. Most likely it will start in the EU first given their pro consumer stances on things like privacy.
@@kerningandleading
Unfortunately, they’ve all sold us down the river!
It's simple. Congress needs to stop targeting specific companies and just do the following.
1. Bar the storage, transmission, and/or accessing of American data from overseas.
2. Require the explicit consent of users for their data to be gathered.
3. Bar companies from preventing users from even being able to use their service if a user does not consent.
They’re already breaking laws. Why do you think this would stop them. Just like the Do Not Call lists years ago it did nothing. Plus it’s way more complicated than that. Even if it stay in the country I still don’t want them to have any information.
Our politicians are in the dark ages, too busy bickering with each other and fighting for power. The cobwebs gather on them as they get further and further out of touch with technology.
hah You think Congress would pass that??? I won't say not in a million years.... but it's gonna be at least another hundred
You need to edit #1....
1. Bar the storage, transmission, and/or accessing of American data. (It doesn't matter where it's being seen from)
Congress doesn't do sh** for Americans any more. They WANT this data collection, so they can track everyone. Insurance companies pay congress more than we do; they'll get this data automatically sent to them eventually. Dash Cams are great (I have one) but how long do you think it'll be before they mandate them? Cops will have "probable cause" to get the data whenever there's an accident. Look on YT or research Ring Doorbells and Police, or Ring Doorbells and FBI.
Certain cities (Myrtle Beach, SC) taxes your property based on your property's inventory (new leather couch, TV, etc). They assume this is related to you renting out your property. I recall one story where, "if you don't allow us to inventory your house, we're going to tax you at a higher rate" - so you allowed them in, to get the lower property tax rate. Eventually this will apply to cars: You'll allow us to track you, so you can get a lower rate (it's all BS). The Health Ins company will increase your rates because you buy Pizza every week, or Car Ins rates go up because you go to the bar every Friday (think Cops want to know that too? Track you, know when you leave?)
It's coming. It's just a matter of time.
The whole surveillance thing is among the reasons I drive an old car. Mainly though, I like the incredible durability of a manual transmission. Saving $$ and helping tank the consumer culture through greater self-sufficiency🤣
Most cars pre 2010 won't have these things. And opting for more analog head units that don't require you to plug your phone into it is another option. These things are quite easy to avoid.
One massive thing to push for is to make any and all data collection to be OPT IN only that way you are never needed to opt out at all to start
You can never opt out I feel!
We need to make holding data a liability. If the punishment for collecting data is high enough, data becomes a liability. It is sad that my data is considered an asset.
I disagree. The only way is they didn't collect data in the first place, let alone selling it to data brokers, which could be people with nefarious intentions. Life is never that easy though. Why do they need 8B+ in "record breaking profits"? it's never bad to have a little greed with moderation because it can serve as a motivator but too much is... well, you see it already.
The "opt in" will be buried in the piles of contracts every car dealer makes you sign when you buy a new car.
@@amorphousblob2721 No that only works for opt out. Burying the "opt IN" will mean they cannot collect it.
I just want a car that gets me to places efficiently and comfortably. That should be the whole point of a car. Not to connect to the internet. not to be a computer.
Sadly the only new cars sold today without data collection are anything but that😂
Mitsubishi Mirage
Hey, I put a computer in my truck & it was _great._ Probably because _I_ put it there, & it only did what _I_ asked for, & it wasn't networked to every other part of the vehicle!
These machines don't need to be logging our data; feature diversity is _not_ dependant on data leakage.
Drive an old car
You could even get a newer car and bypass all the spying equipment with an aftermarket engine controler. It's an expense, but it's an option
Old would be anything before obdii so basically anything older than 1980s/1990s
This is why i drive a 1988 supra that i rebuilt myself.
Id love a hat (like 'dad' cap style) that says "There is no cloud: Its just someone else's computer"
nice idea!
“Trucker hat” or snap back? For the hat style?
I've heard thatbefore, but then, I'm a sysadmin. My email server/web server/storage server is a Raspberry Pi in my house.
Look at Louis Rossmann's site. He's got "Clouds are for rain" stuff.
Naomi, maybe you could offer that on a hat or T-shirt. I love it.
You can try to opt out by telling the car company to stop recording the data from your car or stop receiving it or to configure the car’s transmitter to stop sending it. Good luck with any of those.
Your trump card, however, is the car’s antennas. If you disconnect an antenna, all of this stuff stops working, and it’s really hard for electronics to detect that an antenna is no longer present.
In my car at least, there are separate antennas and antenna cables for satcom, GPS, cellular and FM and AM radios.
You don’t have to remove an antenna, just disconnect its cable from the head end.
That isn't always an option with today's electronics. For example, look at the Raspberry Pi computer. There is no visible antenna that you can disconnect, yet it has WiFi.
Actually it's very easy to determine that the antenna isn't there!
Yeah, & my Raspbian build still shows up periodically on my surveillance logs even though the Bluetooth & WiFi are turned "off".
Hardware air gap switch, or GTFO with claims of "security".
I also do not take my car to the dealer for maintenance. I do my own maintenance, and also have an OBD reader, though I seldom need to use it.
And THIS is a major reason I am in no rush to purchase a new vehicle.
consumer rights really need to be updated to stop the scummy tactics people and governments have used to absolutely step on us
We need a law that forces manufacturers to lay out all the info publicly. Without knowing about it there's nothing we can do.
Government _is_ scum.
Even with it all laid out, people choose Accept rather than "opt out" of being able to use literally anything.
I added an aftermarket radio to a 2019 Chevy express and there was no reason to have the data anymore. It had error codes when the sim was removed. I ended up cutting the wire to the mic and unplugging the gps and satellite antennas. Then added a dummy antenna so it didn’t know it was unplugged. Lots of work to not have big brother
What won’t drive change is consumers that “want” privacy. What will drive change is ppl that won’t have any of this crap in a car that they buy.
>implying the western economy isn't just a command economy with more steps
Let's just face it, only a few multinational companies control nearly 99% of your life. And the government will just give them free money if nobody buys their shit.
The simple answer is to stop buying cars with open internet portals. If enough people tell car makers thst rhe reason for not buying is this issue, they will have to remove it. I used to hold a job that required my going into sites operated by contractors to the Department of Defence. Part of the clearance to enter was that I could not have anything with me that was taking pictures or sending data.
Car privacy is a huge headache to deal with and there are no real options for us to ask the dealer to remove the on board infotainment system because its so tightly integrated with the entire driving system. It would be nice if we could have a privacy friendly third party infotainment system that we can replace the stock one with. Another option is if we can get a system where we can control the network activity of the stock built in infotainment system, like a pi hole for the car or a vpn for the car.
There absolutely is an option to remove all of that equipment. That option is called "buy a vehicle that was made before that equipment was invented."
The average age of vehicles in service has been climbing for decades, and for good reason. Newer vehicles are not better to own than older vehicles are, and they are not functionally more valuable than a vehicle that has a few years and miles under it.
@@AlexandarHullRichter that’s not comfortable or practical. People always want new cars.
@@asishreddy7729 hahahah that is not even remotely true. The average age of vehicles in use is over 15 years now, that means half of people out there want cars that are older than 15 years old. New cars are not even more comfortable than older cars, because this suspension is so stiff every bump in the road will bounce you around the cabin. Older cars are more comfortable to ride on rough roads because they were designed for rougher roads.
@@AlexandarHullRichterWrong. This is only because the average American makes like 30k a year before taxes. People are broke, and old cars are rusting away. Car sales growth has actually stopped so the US market seems to be saturated but there are still many many people buying or leasing new cars.
@@AlexandarHullRichterWrong. This is only because the average American makes like 30k a year before taxes. People are broke, and old cars are rusting away. Car sales growth has actually stopped so the US market seems to be saturated but there are still many many people buying or leasing new cars.
My car runs like a top and it's from 1986, its extremely fast, luxurious, and performs well. I don't need to worry about sim cards.
I purchased a 2016 Ford Taurus SHO in January 2020. In November 2020 I was coming home from food shopping. I was driving 60 mph in a 65 mph, when approximately 2 miles from my house, the car took over and began driving its self autonomously. The steering wheel flew from my grasp, buy its self, and swerved the car instantly into the oncoming traffic lane, holding a straight line, while accelerating simultaneously. I tried to turn the steering wheel to get the car back in my lane, but I couldn’t budge it. The wheel felt as if it was locked, I couldn’t overcome it.
With both feet, smashing down on the breaks, as hard as I could, the car continued accelerating from 60 to 75 in a matter of seconds. I was lucky, there was no oncoming traffic at that time.
I'm alive to tell the story because I grabbed the shifter and threw it into park, but the second I depressed the detent, the computer let go, and I regained control in that instant. The whole ordeal only lasted a few seconds, but it felt like a lifetime.
These cars and heavy trucks can download driving instructions on their own, autonomously. Your enemies and mine, can hack into them and kill you, i.e. drive you head on into on coming traffic, or steal it remotely, in complete secrecy from any distance.
"Boston Brakes". It's real.
I had an insurance company tell me they were charging me extra for not having that OBD port device so they got canceled
LOL oh man it was supposedly going to be a discount for people who opted in, not yet another way to charge extra!
This is a massive betrayal of consumers by almost every car mfr as well as many other companies and they needs to be sued into oblivion for this
What about your refrigerator, television, computer, phone, home security system, any "connected" appliances , and so on. The can of worms has been opened. It cannot be "un"opened.
@@josephfacey2596 All of those manufacturers are liable and deserve lawsuits too.
@@andrewlutes2048They aren't liable though. Technically you agree to all this when you sign papers. People need to just stop buying these things
@@tardisrider25 Exactly. I’m not buying or using stuff that require me to sign terms of service that I do not understand or agree to. We need to stop lying on terms of service. Saying we understand and agree when we don’t is not truthful and it’s only harming ourselves.
Naomi, I'm a little disappointed that you haven't vetted things properly.
In regards to the vehicle privacy report site, on a lark I decided to enter the VIN for my 2007 Toyota Matrix. Note that this vehicle has NO connectivity AT ALL. There's no onstar type feature, no moving map (car doesn't even have a GPS antenna). The head unit plays CDs and FM/AM radio, that's it. There's no cellular modem in the car, the only SIM is the one in my phone. No bluetooth, no WIFI. Nothing. The ONLY data collection is the airbag computer, which you have to rip out and physically connect to if you want to read it.
The vehicle privacy report site, on entering my VIN (which correctly identified it as a 2007 Toyota Matrix) labelled my car: "This car is like a "hard-drive on wheels", which utterly not true (again, only data storage is the ABS module, no hard drive in there, probably a meg or two of flash memory at most). The site then claims Toyota collects 'Identifiers, Biometrics, Location and User Profiles'. That utterly false. Biometrics? How!!?? The car doesn't have a sensor for that.
Now, they DO label that section 'Toyota Data Practices', but that's disingenuous since while Toyota might have those practices, my car doesn't send any data to Toyota, so why would any of those practices matter to me?
Honestly I think you should create a follow-up mentioning how misleading this site is, especially to people who don't understand things (which of course is why they would normally find your content so important and useful)
That's good feedback, that they do make-specific reports for some cars, I'll pass that along!
I'm guessing you benefit from the collection of our information
Nice try fed
@repatch43 there is a whole lot more in that car that you think! In 1993 my neighbor was a third party in an accident, the "victim driver's" car rolled over my neighbor's car after being T-boned by a speeder. Ohio Highway Patrol came to them to get a waiver to download the data in their 1989 Toyota while it was in impound, the data they got allowed them to verify the speed and location of that car at the moment of impact and helped them reconstruct the event for evidence in court. Computer chips in all manner of systems in cars store info that is totally separate from the prime function,and have for about 35 years now. The chips are just more powerful now,so they store even more data.
@@user-pu3mr8xv4m No, there isn't a whole lot more in my car than I think. I'm very aware of what's in my car. What you are describing is the data in the SRS (airbag) module. That module records the parameters you speak of. It's what I alluded to in my post. I'm very aware it exists, which is why I alluded to it. I'm (mostly) OK with it since where I am it requires a warrant to get the data from it, and that data can only be retrieved by physically hooking up to the module, there is no wireless access. I'd prefer it not be present, but having a working airbag is more important to me.
issue is that many vehicles the "sim card" is actually an embedded modem that cannot be removed or disabled
Just unplug it.
Some cars like Toyota have the dcm fuse that you can pull out
@@scotth9828unfortunately if you unplug the OnStar module on a GM car it will mean you can't start the car. You also have to jumper out the wires in the connector to bypass the module.
Removing the tiny coax antenna is still easy enough off of the bcm- body control module or radio control module
I entered the VIN number on the mentioned website and it reported: This car is like a “hard-drive on wheels”, which surprised me a lot. My car is an Opel (Vauxhall) Astra from 1998 and has no internet, SIM, Bluetooth, phone connection, cloud-based media, GPS, navigation, OBD2 or anything of the sort. The only thing that I can think of is that the airbag electronics record speed and acceleration information.
It's a 3.5" floppy on wheels! 😂
@@PatrickKQ4HBD 😂💯
The '98 Astra's OBDII port is concealed in the center console, under the handbrake lever. Accelerator, brake, power steering, & load-based engine calibration data (among other things), are all fed through the car's computer, but I don't recall which data is logged.
@@prophetzarquon1922 I know the location of the data connector, but what I meant is that the Astra-G only became EOBD/OBD2 compliant starting with the 2001 model year, i.e., those built after September 1, 2000.
The 1998 Opel Astra is a bit of a transitional model in terms of diagnostic systems. While later models adopted the standardized OBD-II protocol, many 1998 models used a proprietary system. For the 1998 Opel Astra, it is likely to have an OBD-I port using Opel's proprietary diagnostic protocol, sometimes referred to as Op-com or Opel-com. This system is not fully OBD-II compliant and requires specialized diagnostic tools compatible with Opel's proprietary protocols.
@@prophetzarquon1922 I know the location of the data connector, but what I meant is that the Astra-G only became EOBD/OBD2 compliant starting with the 2001 model year, i.e., those built after September 1, 2000.
The 1998 Opel Astra is a bit of a transitional model in terms of diagnostic systems. While later models adopted the standardized OBD-II protocol, many 1998 models used a proprietary system. For the 1998 Opel Astra, it is likely to have an OBD-I port using Opel's proprietary diagnostic protocol, sometimes referred to as Op-com or Opel-com. This system is not fully OBD-II compliant and requires specialized diagnostic tools compatible with Opel's proprietary protocols.
The amount of Easter Eggs in this video is astounding! All of the organizations listed. The shark and words for its description about the industry and your data - so clever! LOL. Hilarious!
I dug into this after reading your new book and because of the last video on this topic. Just to be sure my car really was in the clear. Now I can say with certainty that the only information gathered by my 2011 Town Car is the SiriusXM channels I listen too. I can live with that...
💛
2011 car with satellite radio? I remember it wasn't a couple years ago until many cars in Europe didn't even have digital radio standard.
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 True that! I put it in aftermarket with the new radio (no internet connection). Only had a CD player before that.
All the more reason to keep driving my oldies.
@@MrHarrilasagnadefinitely a good technique using after market radio not linked to the computers in the automobile. With how integrated in the dash the radio is with everything else used to control the automobile I wonder if you can install an aftermarket radio?
Any assumption of privacy anywhere in these times is a myth! Great vid! Subbed!
Great video! I had no idea what's going on with cars and data collection. It's one of those things that unless you actually think about it, you don't think about it. "out of sight, out of mind" as it were.
Well, if George Orwell could see it coming in 1949. It's a bit late to complain about it now.
Idiocracy is a great documentary film.😂
He could see it happening because he's family where part of what's happening now! That's why he could what was coming.
_They Live, we sleep,_
It's not just about privacy.
Next time we have lock downs people may find that their cars won't work when more than 5 kilometres from their houses.
"next time"? Where are you that you had "lock downs"? All we had here in the US, was recommendations which people ignored.
@@prophetzarquon1922
Sorry mate, but you're memory is skewed. I remember essentially everyone in America hiding in their houses with masks on.
Even the fully armed population of the US were completely compliant and obedient.
It'll be the same next time too.
@@steely1neverwane Self isolation is _not_ a lockdown! Don't conflate _(partial)_ compliance, with enforced captivity (which _did_ happen in some parts of the world)!
@@steely1neverwanesorry to you mate, but you know squat.. i live in Iowa and was never locked down, went to work everyday.. a lot less people were out and about but we were never locked down.
@@bradrobertson4609
OK mate, I understand.
You were very lucky I guess, let's hope you're just as lucky next time.
This is another reason why Im perfectly happy with my 90s truck.
1990 Suburban is best Suburban
When i bought a 3rd gen taco, the base model had a decent enough system with Bluetooth and steering wheel controls and ports, cd, backup cam, 6 speakers, etc. The upper trims all had a head unit with android auto, apple carplay, nav, all of it. Toyota had to do system updates to get it to work properly.
One of the reasons i was glad i got the base model is because in the users manual it talks about how much info about you, including all your nav data, is stored in the upper trim head unit, and downloaded by toyota every time you bring it in for warranty service. My truck just does what i need it to, nothing else. No sim. That website in the video does NOT properly use the vin to identify what trim level, and therefore which head unit, the vehicle has, which is the biggest contributor to how much privacy is being sacrificed.
wow that plugging in things thing is super shady
I keep getting annoying pop ups from Microsoft, Android, Samsung etc... telling me my location data is not precise and i should turn it on for better service. I ignore them, but they never stop.
I think that is why they turned off the cell towers to try and force you to use a smart phone that can be tracked.
Yeah. Aside from supporting more devices per antenna (as a cost-saving & scalability measure that carriers wanted), more precise location accuracy is the big win for 5G networks, so far as monetized surveillance is concerned.
The same properties that make 5G bands so flaky, make it excellent for location finding!
You may have nothing to hide, but you have everything to protect!
Do a visual only check for a device which is usually under the passenger seat (it is also occasionally behind the center dash).
That vehicle metrics device is one whole lot of metrics. It cannot be removed or bypassed. Attempting to do so will be making the vehicle a tow back to the dealership. It records metrics in case one is in accident. Your own vehicle (one for which you could have paid for in full??) can actually be used to testify against you.
The insane word salads, impossible language,, lobbying, sinister motives, greed.
I'm not worried. Being someone that DOESN'T need the latest shiny thing, I drive a dirt simple, VERY WELL maintained 22 year old Civic. Not infotainment, nothing. I love that car! It starts, it's dirt reliable, and it carries my a$$ anywhere I need to go. I've been aware of all this for a LOOOONG time, as I work in tech.
Those of us that raised concerns over a decade ago were shouted down and called names. That’s how it happened. The way it always happens.
10:35 I like the free service where you enter your VIN and find out what data’s being collected
Don't worry, I'm sure they won't sell the data!
P.S. Although, I bet that only applies for the consumers who use the correct pronunciation of data, which IS, "DAY--TA"!
So, they may well sell the information out of spite, but only, for those folk who abuse the English language, by saying, "daa-taa". 🤣🤣🤣
@@smudge0356It’s called a British accent Einstein.
@@tproudboomer5965 Nope. It's day-ta here in sunny England 😉 I think she's an Aussie.
@@redrock425 My bad😁
It's 'day-tah' in the US, too.
Only weirdos call it 'dah-tah'.
And when the nag-ware notices when you start the car doesn't deter consumers from removing the SIM, the designers will put up more blocks to disabling it, such as adding a non-removable (backup) eSIM. And when people figure out how to block those too, the designers will prevent the car from starting in the first place. This will NEVER stop until there is equivalent to legislation to credit data reporting laws. There will be many lobbyists using false equivalency and straw man arguments that collecting this data saves lives. But this kind of privacy protection MUST be passed. Yes, laws like that will absolutely destroy the current firehose data market. I'm fine with that.
The thing is, it isn't gonna happen. Data collection comes part & parcel of connectivity, & there are no unconnected automobiles anymore. Data even gets harvested during service, without any wireless at all.
Plus, public roads are a public place, with "no reasonable expectation of privacy"; so, any driving on public roads is fair game for anyone to log, & security camera aggregation systems can already do that, searching out a single vehicle across millions of doorbell & security cameras. Even without traffic cameras, traffic gets tracked.
An automobile in a public place, isn't private. The fact that automobiles aren't private even on private land anymore, _is_ a legitimate issue, but privacy & public roads are anathematic.
Laws do nothing. Fox guarding the henhouse, as always. It's all fictional.
We need @RichRebuilds to do a SIM card hunter series.
I'm glad the car I drive was built before all this spy crap. When my car was built, cassette decks were state-of-the-art.
I unfortunately did not find this video valuable, it’s actually invaluable! It’s groundbreaking and eye opening. Our privacy is constantly being more vulnerable. Knowing about this is key to our awareness. Thanks a lot!
Can't wait for that "cutting edge" company to pop-up that creates a car that uses a "local only" system as if it's a whole new concept.
Good luck with that! With big government regulation, that won't happen.
_"People"_ don't want that information, Governments do!
I think this is a limited way of looking at the issue, and it only makes the situation worse. First of all, yes governments want your data, but companies also want your data. The government is not making companies do this stuff. Companies are collecting your data because they make money off doing that. If they offer to allow the government access to that data, then the government is less likely to introduce legislation to limit or stop them from doing it. Second, both governments and companies are just groups of people. People absolutely want that information. Some of those people are in government positions. Some of those people are in the private sector running companies. As soon as you start making distinctions that one abstract group of people is "the one" you need to look out for, you let the other groups off the hook. It is a known and age old tactic that if you get consumers fighting amongst themselves over who to blame, they won't come together to come up with real solutions and solve the real problems. You as an individual should own your own data. Period. Arguing over which entity is "the bad guy" trying to collect it is a distraction. Stop ALL groups from collecting any of YOUR data that YOU did not explicitly allow them to collect. That should be the agenda.
@@neekondrums and who lobbies governmental politicians? I think it was obvious what I said as government is the end of the tap so to speak.
@@neekondrums An individual's data should fall under copyright law. Copyright technically comes into existence upon creation of the work. It's difficult to prosecute without registering the copyright. Solving that problem may be an avenue to pursue.
@@Jizzlewobbwtfcus It wasn’t “obvious” what you said… because you didn’t mention companies, you mentioned governments. Companies have much more use for your data than the government does.
@@TitaniumTurbine They are synonymous with each other so it was still obvious :]
As a dealer tech - we have no idea what data is being harvested we also have no idea where the SIM is and how to wipe what data is in your car.
I have a really effective and simple fix - keep your old car on the road instead of blindly consuming buying flashy new car. My car can't sell me out because it does not have the technology. My phone probably is still selling me out though
Definitely.
Also, nice hair.
@@prophetzarquon1922 thankyou. The i basically never cut my hair
@@nobodycares85 Been a while for me as well...
@@prophetzarquon1922 for me it's over 20 years lol.
Great topic! Thanks for bringing more attention to these shady companies
I note that the head end for my 2018 Subaru Forester has a cable labelled GPS. Disconnecting the GPS cable from the head end should break the vehicles location tracking, and to the vehicle electronics it will just look like really bad reception, so it shouldn’t break any features except the navigation, which I prefer to use on my personal devices anyway.
Disconnecting the WIFI antenna can probably be done just as well.
One may be able to opt out of cellular data tracking by disconnecting that antenna.
You know that GPS devices only _receive_ data, they don't transmit?
@@prophetzarquon1922Of course GPS does not transmit. GPS does enable a car to record and report its position. I prefer not have either.
This trend makes me happy I have an older model that has no internet unless I turn on sharing on the bluetooth from my phone. It's a pain to update the map using an SD card once a year, but certainly worth not sharing data. At least the traffic data is only one way, since Sirius hasn't gone to the expense of bidirectional data.
So, if all companies in an industry set a particular price it is illegal, but if all companies give you no other option than to share your data if you use their product its completely okay. I can live without social media, but in the necessary transportation industry, it is a blatant abuse.
"necessary transportation industry" is blatant abuse.
If it's necessary, it's supposed to become a utility.
While I do have a 2018 vehicle, it does pop up with a message every month to see if i am fine with it collecting data for traffic info as it says, and it auto opts out of the data collection, and makes me accept it if i choose to.
While obviously you would not want it to collect your info, i do appreciate that it does opt out by itself, and not just always collecting data with just a prompt once and good luck finding out how to sign out of it!
A popup every month should be illegal as well. I'm a firm believer of, If I want to purchase something, I'll come to you. Otherwise leave me alone.
@@davidmcglone409 Hence the reason of me saying that it would be obvious that it should be a no from the get go. I do like the fact that it gives me some control vs nothing at all!
Is it perfect? No, but slightly better than the latter.
@@hernanhernandez6567 True, just be careful. As the saying goes "If you give them an inch, they'll make it a mile"
Luckily, I can't afford a car with all these "features" 😎
Some of these features are being mandated for inclusion in some countries, after a while you won't have a choice
@@repatch43 There will always be a choice. Even if most cars are riddled with surveillance.
The first and most obvious is to never plug our phones into them, and put duct tape over all the cameras or destroy them, if needed.
Either that or you could just rip out the head unit, which is where most of the data is, then get it replaced for something else, if you're that serious.
@@Casey2262 Ripping out the head unit isn't an option in more an more vehicles. The reason is controls for all the major components of the car are moving to the head unit. Tesla is the extreme example where nearly EVERYTHING is controlled by the touchscreen of the head unit. Other cars are following.
So no, if you want a new car, you won't have a choice very soon.
@@repatch43 You assume there won't be any privacy focused car companies in future that won't operate the same way, as more and more people wake up to this particular stuff.
So yes, there will still be options, no matter what.
@@Casey2262 Yes, I assume that, for the simple reason that despite what many think, the car industry is VERY small margin, with MASSIVE capital requirements. The 'wants privacy' consumer base will NEVER be big enough to fill the margin lost to not selling your customers data.
I guess we'll see. Suffice it to say, that the industry is moving in the wrong direction, and the newest players are BY FAR the worst offenders.
There is a guy that bought a corolla with no loan. They still installed a tracker on his car. Plus the stupid thing drains the battery if you don't drive for a few days.
You Smart TV is RECORDING you 24/7
Have a great day! 🤗
Yep, old school dumb plasma here.
The only computer a car needs is the embedded ECU that runs the ignition and fuel mapping for the engine!
Unfortunately you can't register a new car that doesn't have airbags or antilock abs installed. So your gonna be forced to have multiple ECUs anyway.
@@tomtom1541 There's plenty of used OBD-1 cars that only have a single ECU. ABS modulators don't store any data. Many vehicles do have a telemetry module linked with the airbag system that will record what the vehicle was doing right before a collision.
_*all US vehicles sold in the last several decades_ do have a telemetry module linked with the airbag system that will record what the vehicle was doing right before a collision.
(& the computer's modest memory is more than sufficient to retain a surprisingly extensive history of that data)
I sticking to my 2010 corolla for a while
@@lalagardenia6500it's been an optional extra since the early 2000s. But it's not that common until recently.
Just uninstall the entire infotainment center, and replace with a good old fashioned Bluetooth headunit ..you can easily retrifit a backup camera and gps for very little money...
Great info. Knew nothing about this.
Thank you for this, Naomi.
Data - data. 🤣 like the blooper. 👍🏼
On some cars, the box that records things with the SIM is on it's own fuse, you can temporarily shut if off by yanking the fuse until you get around to removing the SIM.
Find the antenna and remove it. That shouldn't affect the interaction between the car and the s card. People Fail to read the purchase agreement that they signed. It's in there. the purchaser agreed to it by signing the document. Until it is paid off the words in the agreement remain in force. And if it's a leased car, well, fhugetabout it.
Isn't it funny that my 1985 Toyota van collects nothing but good gas mileage and 234,000 miles of reliable service? The way it should be. That's almost 40 years of doing what vehicles should do, and I can (and have) actually work on it myself!😉👍👍👍
you mean 10 years. And the engine and transmission can be rebuilt as well.
Wow! I appreciate your depth and detail. Fantastic subject matter that has definitely been overlooked. Cheers
Just get a bluetooth speaker with microphone for your car for hands free calls and listening to music. Don't connect the phone to the car.
@@tommaguzzi1723 buy a tom tom from pawn shop for $10.
@@tommaguzzi1723
Wrong, GPS doesn’t need mobile towers or cellular coverage.
Side note: Remember that "your" device IDs are only _circumstantial_ evidence of your activity, & that both spoofing & remote-control, are each very common & almost impossible to disprove.
Removing the SIM card does not prevent them from tracking your location. Just an FYI. As part of the protocol, cellular modems do a check-in to the towers. There are several reasons they do this. Part of it, if I remember correctly, is to figure out how much power to output from the radio as cellular radios back off their power if they're within range. This is why if you live in a rural area your cell phone battery lasts a little bit less than they do in a city because you're not near any towers. On top of the check-in it does deliver some amount of data I think it's like the cellular modems IMEI number.
If this was any other kind of privacy, people lose their mind -- but with tech, everyone just allows it. In reality we have no choice, except to not use the product.
Yup.
It's even more hopeless in this case, because by definition, using public roads is not private. Road usage data belongs to everyone. 😕
14:23 PAUSE IT!
HAHAHAHA I love that _Pegasus Cars_ in the bottom right hand corner.
TOTALLY not a dig at Pegasus software :D
LOVE IT!!!
There are TONS of privacy cars out there, especially before OBD-II (about 1995).
I've got nothing to worry about. I didn't do any naughty stuff. I read the manual and cleared the nav, phone, location tracking, and driving history before selling. I never rent, there will most likely be a second tracker for the repo.
My daily is a 1972 benz. Car insurance £150 a year. No road tax. No Mot. No ULEZ. NO SIM CARD!
Too bad there isn't a boss module that could be installed by the owner that would still run the car but the owner keeps full control of the data.
Hacking your car isn’t impossible. One of these days all of the insurance companies will notice people constantly doing negative speeds around town. 😂
There is. I downloaded their spec sheet. Alas they are more into muscle cars.
They also have those gadgets that say the car is going slow, and not very far. Wonder how that will work on these scum. Damn he drives 10 miles a month. Spends a lot of time at the gas station. Must work there.
Does this belong to Europe, too? If yes, how does this private data collections work along with the GDPR?
That's a very good question.
Probably something in the fine print.
I have the exact same question. It clearly goes against everything in there.
No one cares until someone sues.
Yes, actually EU law that the card is connected with the mobile network
- In friends' cars or those I rent, the connection drops (it's maaagic)
- I buy used cars made before "data theft"
- But if I had to buy a new car, how could I do it?
I could launch a MITM attack, making the car connect not to home, but to a hostspot created ad hoc by me (Pinepple or similar), to which it can connect to a local network in the car, offline, or to a home server that acts as a filter and only lets through what I want.
It depends on what I need and the type of impediment that is implemented when it is offline.
I drive a car from before the age of telemetry and infotainment screens. I intend to keep it running as long as possible, or at least until privacy laws are enforced.
Thanks Naomi.
Thanks Ron!
Why are we not safe in our own properties?!!!!😢
Because the elites don't trust you with the things they sell you.
There is a very easy fix to car and other surveillance by private actors. The fix is to literally ban all private surveillance with zero loopholes and severe criminal penalties for all executive level decision makers such as a minimum of ten years in prison for a first offense. There is absolutely no valid reason why any private entity would need to conduct random unwarranted surveillance of any other private entity.
🤔 I am a bit surprised that I have not heard this suggested before... I would be interested to hear some reasoned arguments to the contrary?
Wonder if the BlueDriver app used to connect with the OBD-II port to analyze my car and get codes uses the information from it to sell to 3rd-parties. Hmmmm. It didn’t require location data to use it on an iPhone but when I borrowed it to someone with an Android phone it required that location services be turned on in order to use it. That seems very sketchy considering that it shouldn’t need that information at all to diagnose your automobile’s condition.
Now, I love my 1974 Porsche even more!
Are you going ro convert it to electric? Many companies are doing the classic cars like Porsches.
@@paulas_lens Nope, good old dino juice. I take long drivesin it and going EV would limit that.
Great info, thanks!
Thanks so much for your support!
Always fascinating 👏 I think a campaign to stop this in future is almost easier than removing the device control now! Good work 🙏
You can also disconnect the wifi, GPS, and satellite antennas. This is a great video.
Our Jeep shows us in Michigan, but we're in Arkansas 😉
I would like to suggest pulling fuses, instead, but automotive manufacturers have almost certainly put those in circuit with something that you actually need, like headlights or speedometer or the fuel pump.