Hi Josh, I always appreciate factory tours of Montana 5th Wheels, thank you! We own a 2018 Montana Model 3720RL that came with the Norcold 2118 fridge. We do a lot of boondocking on our Canadian snowbird trips to southern Arizona. During our 2021/2022 trip we boondocked 96 days and in 2022/2023 99 days so alot of drycamping. I did alot of work on the back side of the Norcold 2118 to get better cooling efficiency which has really helped being how we operate the fridge on propane during our boondocking. We may eventually convert the fridge to the 12 volt compressor system from JC.
Thanks for the tour. Not sure if others noticed it not, but there were some noticeable quality issues. A couple of examples. 1. When looking at the welds on the aluminum frames. Some of the welds looked like they were only tacked and not complete. I would think that creates a weak spot. 2. When looking behind the wet bay, I noticed one of the pex pieces up against the aluminum frame. I believe this may eventually wear a hole in the pex if not addressed. I will have to watch some of your other tours and compare. Thanks again!
Thanks Nerd! Now I'll be going down the rabbit hole of your other factory tours so I can see the differences. Good thing I didn't have plans for today lol!!!!
Love my Montana Big Sky. It's 10 years old, but doesn't look its age. Full body paint really makes a difference long term. We've had only 1 problem in all this time. Going with quality mfg makes a big difference. Thank for the tour. You're the best in the industry.
Love the factory tours! Seeing how these rigs are put together is extremely helpful in maintaining them! Keep them coming Uncle Josh! BTW when is the Nerd Herd swag coming out?
I was towing our RV back from vacation last week. I was doing 62mph, the number of RVs passing me at 70mph or more was absolutely incredible. Where the heck is everyone going so fast!? Good thing these tires are rated to 75mph. Josh this will sound crazy, but I'd ask Keystone to put in a smaller fridge than the 18 or 20cubic foot fridge. While I like the look and function of the residential fridge, I do worry about having to replace it one day in the future. I want a fridge that will fit through the front door. That said, I'd prefer the 20 but still give me a 3000-4000 watt inverter.
Great video review, Josh. Way back in 2017, when you were at Haylett, via your great videos, you helped us pick out our then new special order 2018 Montana 3560-RL Legacy with full body paint. We still have it and absolutely love it. I still watch all your industry updates which are very informative. We have the Nor Cold 4 door SS propane / electric refer in our Montana, and I for one, am sad to see them go, great units. You are correct, Montana has been using Sailun tires on their 5th wheels for many years, and they are fantastic tires, as god or better than Goodyear. Keep up the great work, my friend!
You spent a couple minutes showing the use of luan and not Azdel. A year ago I had a conversation with a VP from one of the manufacturers who claimed while Azdel has some benefits, luan is still superior in larger side walls and screw retention. He went on to say the main reason Azdel has suddenly become more widely used is due to cost and supply issues with luan. (His units are Azdel on both wall sides.) Is this something you could do a video on and get to the truth?
One thing I didn't think of when I first started looking at rvs, was while residential fridges are nice, if it goes out (likely around year 3-5), it's not fitting through the door! Slide out! $$
Great video, and wonderful information. I love how you show us what goes into it. I have always believed you should know your equipment, and this video helps with that. Stay safe, and keep smiling!
I’m loving the factory tour!! Next year I. (Unless something changes my mind) I am going to upgrade to a Montana Legacy 3121RL. Just want to feel a little better about the “frame flex” issues and hopefully I will do it.
Montana has so many of the quality standard features that I hope Go>Play RVs will someday have👍except for the OSB roofing which gets spongy when exposed to water😢
I'd get the 12 volt fridge but also add the converter as an upgrade with the huge solar upgrade and lithium batteries. I'm sure that would add 20k extra on top. Lithium batteries alone can cost up to 12k.
I have a question about a base Montana 3123 with a residential refrigerator and basic solar/inverter. Assuming full sun and being towed for six hours, will the base solar and typical truck charging be enough app input to run the fridge and have enough energy remaining to operate the slides and landing gear? Assuming two group 27 lead acid batteries in good condition. Thanks for the tour, I've always thought the Montana's were the best value.
Montana is one of the few high-end 5thWs which does not have tankless water heaters; instead, going with extra large water heater tanks (e.g. 16 or 18 gallons). Could you please explain why Keystone went this route with its top-of-the-line model? It seems contrary to Montana's high standards.
@@JoshtheRVNerd Uncle Josh, I was let down by your rationalization. This is not a proprietary thing for which you might be sued for corporate espionage. If you don't know, you don't know. There is no harm for speaking the truth about why Montana went with conventional tank heaters over tankless. I'll bet an America Eagle gold ounce (just an expression; yet about $2,500.00) that you do, in fact, know why Montana stayed conventional when every Cougar and just about every other Keystone model is outfitted with tankless. I know you have too much curiosity in your field of endeavor to not know.
@@rogerspalding5673 again I can only speculate, but I would estimate they are sticking with some thing that has tried and true so they’ve gone with a larger version of it recently to help expand usage
@@JoshtheRVNerd Uncle Josh, thank you for tolerating my second pesky question about Montanas. I am no one special, but this was the answer for which I was looking. I am 70 years old, but feel like 30. So, I am closer to the end than I am to the beginning. As you say so eloquently, my second RV will also be my last. High end Cougars, Montanas, North Points, Pinnacles and High end Eagles comprise my potential acquisitions. The super luxe full profile 5thWs, Super Cs and Class As don't return all that much for the prices one pays. Your opinions are the most authoritative and educated of all on the 'net. My local salesmen would lie about their own mothers to make a sale; totally untrustworthy. Accordingly, I rely on you for true accurate info. This is why I bother you so. Thanks for your patience. You, and the Bishs, may not know how important your thoughts and opinions are to us, out here among the deplorables.
I’m still not totally convinced about solar power production on RVs. Many people love to boondock. Hence, in the woods, along shaded river banks, in hunting or fishing seasons, then solar power production is low due to shade, low sun angles and even extended cloudy days going into a week or better. Two acquaintances have solar packages on their 2022 & 23 RVs. Both have generators to make sure power is available for their refrigerators. Luckily on my 2020 Cougar, my refrigerator is gas or electric. Their experience hasn’t been all that great with solar.
Awesome video, I always enjoy seeing how different companies put their RV’s together. As far as the Fridge question: I’m all about the 18 cubic foot residential fridge with the 2000w inverter. 18 cubic foot is plenty enough room for cold storage. Plus that’s one less thing you have to add to your solar system package and you’ll have power to all your outlets even when you’re not hooked up to shore power. We have the 18cu residential fridge that came with a 2000w inverter 30a mppt charger and 2 - 220w solar panels. Obviously we can’t run the AC’s but I don’t have to worry about my fridge not running or making sure I turn it on in time to load up for the trip. We love having the residential fridge and inverter.
Normally I'd prefer just a 12v fridge as I feel it is more flexible. But including a 2k inverter is.. interesting. Allows for some handy add'l benefits Still not great for boondocking of course
@@JoshtheRVNerd oh of course! I could never imagine going full off grid with our current factory solar setup. I’m just happy we can travel with our fridge on and not be a Judas Priest violator (using propane and propane accessories ~ Hank Hill). I’ve been watching so many lithium battery and solar system videos that I could put a system together that would probably still burn down the house because even though I did stay at a holiday Inn Express I still don’t have the real knowledge or experience. 😂 But I’m learning.
Great video again. We bought a Intech Expedition and I love the aluminum roof on ours, but the only thing I don’t like is a need to put plywood down to walk on it
Yeah pex is great but I would pay a couple hundred more for brass pex fittings. I use pex a lot and pay extra for the stainless steel rings as they do last longer. But I use mainly 1 inch stuff. But I'm more old school than most.
I see where Brinkley is the first in the industry to start using brass pro fittings. Be nice if Keystone followed suit. PLUS a great selling point! I too would pay a few hundred extra for it!
Hey Josh, could you possibly do a factory tour for the mid-line Cougars sometime)? Someone did do a factory tour video for the 1/2-ton line, but they are not the same as the mid-line units.
It's obvious why Montana has the rep and sales it does for full timers and snowbirds. I just have it in my head I don't want to limit myself for sites and a small couples fifth wheel will be my "last" rv after a dozen in my family or I owned. Montana gonna make a tiny one ;) And 12v fridge. Even if I bought a used rv, I want a 12v. More than enough experience with old style, even fancy old style like on my 34J Bounder with the 3 way fridge. Replacing old boards with a dragon lord or replacing the entire back cooling unit on the gas /electric, been there done that.
The bedroom slide being more reliable is a good thing because it is impossible to operate manually. I’m sure the manual system works just fine but getting a human body in position to engage the tool into the motors ain’t gonna happen. I have a 2024 3123RL.
They're one of the few luxury FW brands that hasn't gone to wide body. North point recently made the switch. Montana's sister, Alpine, is wide body so perhaps they're trying to remain differently
We would get the 12volt fridge. We will 99% camp with full hookups. So my truck battery will power the fridge while traveling and the shore power will at the camp grounds.
I still truly don't understand why rvs are still using such outdated ac systems. A mini split uses half of the electricity and is massively more efficient.
Why would anyone care of the operating cost when electricity is included with your site. Year round or daily sites. The Mfg can probably buy a lot of traditional a/c’s for a better cost than heat pumps. For a home? Sure. 😊
Hard to pack a detailed response into a reasonably sized comment, but in my best attempt: 1. Cost; an RV owner can buy a 13.5K A/C unit without a heat pump for ~$1,000 and with a heat pump for under $1,500 pretty easily, and everything is self contained except the ducting. So call it $2,500 - $3,000 for 27K BTU with heat pumps . A decent split unit setup with say 3 zones ( say one for the rear, one for the front and one for the middle to try and balance things ) for the same BTU's will be probably closer to $4,000. 2. Installation/Logistics; Instead of ducting in the roof, you're going to need to to run the lines through the floor/roof and the walls of the RV. But before that, where is the main unit going to go? On the rear of the coach where someone could mess with it? Under the coach where it could be damaged during transit, on top of the coach somehow where it can also be damaged? Then, you'll be dealing with a heck of a time if anything goes wrong with the lines like they develop a leak. These are issues I've come across with clients of mine who have bought tiny homes, some who moved it just once and had an issue with the split system, or some who tried to use it like a trailer and move it to multiple locations when it really wasn't built for that. 3A. Current hardware on the market; In larger coaches that have power management systems ( where essentially the entire coach is electric, cooktop, water heaters, etc ), these units wouldn't work as they are designed now, but with some modification it's possible they could. So what you could use that's available on the market now might be good for a smaller lower power draw situations at best. 3B. If you contact a customer service department for a split unit and ask about their warranty coverage on an RV, or anything like a tiny home that's in transit, you may find you have no coverage right out of the door. Similar for how certain appliance companies don't warranty their appliances in an RV based on where the appliance is installed in the RV ( IE on/behind a rear axle ). Again, this could be improved with design enhancements, but just something to think about with the hardware currently on the market. 4. Who is going to service the split unit? If your instinct is that another benefit of the split is that it could be serviced by a residential air conditioning company, I would first say to contact your local company and then see if they would service one in your house if it wasn't installed by them, and then ask them if they would service it in an RV. Probably as soon as you say RV, they'll say no. This was the problem Coleman dealt with on their "residential" air conditioning system that was used in the early 2000s. Well that problem and the way most manufacturers handled the ducting. But the idea then was that you would have this residential system that a residential HVAC tech could deal with. In reality though, just because it had the word "residential" didn't make any HVAC company more willing to work on it once they heard it was in an RV. So in summary, until the RV industry could work with and get HVAC companies to proactively commit to working on their units, which would involve all sorts of things that aren't going to happen including part standardization, etc you're not going to see much progress, especially since the Coleman was closer to a residential system or a smaller commercial system, that could checked all the boxes the split unit attracts, and then some, yet still couldn't gain any momentum. I would say in a tiny home, or a retrofit to an RV that is parked at a permanent site, if the servicing of the unit is thought about ahead of time, a split unit might be the way to go in certain situations. Also, for what it's worth in regards to efficiency, while rooftop RV units aren't required to have things like SEER ratings to compare to a split unit, largely due to their size I believe, you may find that in an RV you wouldn't get the efficiency the split unit was rated for anyway, as those units are tested in residential type configurations ( building and insulation materials ) , and maybe more importantly those SEER ratings involve seasons I believe so most people aren't living in a fixed area with their RV, and even those who do aren't in an RV that is built the same as a home from an insulation perspective, so you may not find such a noticeable difference in "the real world". I'm not sure what you meant by "uses half of the electricity" unless you meant overall monthly usage by the efficiency, but in the end, if you meant something like wattage per advertised BTU while in use, again when running for a month versus the rooftop units, my experience through my clients who are paying for long-term/permanent sites that have the split units installed and are paying for their electric isn't that they're saving a ton of money per month by having the unit, and in the summer it's your primary contributor to electric costs.
Actually. There are a lot of campgrounds converting to paid electric now and not including power with the lot since more and more manufacturers are starting to go electric fully with no propane. So why not start making these things more efficient by updating the AC/heat pump technologies. Can’t stay stuck in the past much longer. Times are changing fast.
I think it would be an interesting video comparing and contrasting construction differences between Montana and Cougar. It seems like they have the same bones and construction process, but Montana has "higher end" interiors. Maybe there's something else we aren't seeing?
Greetings and glad tidings! Great video, as always!! I do not do well with the off-gassing from OSB, how have they addressed this in their floor and ceiling decking? Thanks!!! When will we see a Bish's in Washington State? Tony
Josh… great channel. Was watching a clip on wife’s account. Was a Montana model… you asked opinion or question about would buyer choose a 18cu ft on inverter vs 20 cu ft on 12V. Do you have another video I’m not seeing explaining difference? Thanks Tim
18cu ft is a 110 residential fridge. It includes a 2,000w inverter that is run to the prepped outlets The 20cu ft is a 12v only and doesn't require an inverter. So it's larger, but the outlets only work when plugged into shore power
Nice video Josh, very informative. We have a 2022 3791rd and I've never seen how they're built. Where is it that you are located? Thanks for the tour/information!
Great video Josh. Maybe you can do one for the construction of the High Country model. I have a 2022 331rl and had the roof replaced because they don't build them like what you showed in this video and my roof panels were all popping up and had to be replaced. Seems they take a lot of shortcuts to make them lighter and cheaper.
here is a thought. when you were talking about how the crimp works. could montana get a "lesser" radius for there 90% for the pex to connect to? as the tight 90 they are using can restrict the flow, and cause a drop in usable pressure. as well as make the water pump work harder. that's good having a door that everything can fit through. as not everybody likes a lumpy mattress. or just maybe wants to bring in there comfy arm chair. i would go big. 20cft. as need space to hold food so i can be out there for 4 weeks or longer.
Hey Josh, where can I find some of those vortex ceiling registers? I checked Etrailer and Amazon but I don't see them. I'd like to replace the old style ones in my RV.
Sorry Josh didnt know how to contact ya. is there a travel trailer out there use like a car ev battery to plug in and charge and run every off it. Thanks for what you do.
This is a perfectly fine way to reach me! No worries! There are some RVs with different types of batteries. I'm not sure exactly what some EV's use But things like the Winnebago FLX package or Rockwood Power Package use some different types/systems
Josh, I love you man but we played a drinking game every time you said “uh” we drink and after reviewing the aluminum structures I am on my way to the emergency room to get my stomach pumped out.
That’s the down side to being unscripted Juggling a lot in my head and my mouth tends to move faster Then my default neutral brain gear is uhhhhhh That’s the sound of my brain idling
Do all Legacy models come with the molded rear caps? If non-automotive paint, do they look the same as standard Montanas or is there a different decal package?
If not using a CNC router what are they using that won't cause cracks? I seriously doubt the router would lead to cracks unless not using proper coolant and air blast
Is this tour specific to Full Monty or do they uses these same manufacturing processes/principles in High Country and Legacy just different cabinets trim etc or are the HC and Legacy completely different.
I have a bone to pick with you. You stated that Montana doesn't use "garden hose" tubing but it is clearly evident in the video. The white braided hose, attached with Pex clamps, is located behind the water panel. That is a KNOWN failure point in water systems. Why did you say it wasn't present? I'm a RV tech/inspector is this is something I look for, especially during an inspection, but as a tech I see this as a failure point in many RVs.
Josh, what are the first and second most popular lines of fifth wheels among Full-Time RVers? If you would be so kind, would you tell me the maker and line, for example, Keystone Montana, or Keystone Montana High Country, or Keystone Cougar, or Jayco Eagle ........ Also, is there a wide margin between the first and second most popular lines? My wife and I are currently looking at fifth wheels and I'm really interested in what other Full-Time RVers are buying. Thank you.
The walls are. That's a funny thing about this industry -- SO MANY rvs who talk about "welded aluminum frames" are referencing ONLY the sidewalls That's why I like to do these factory tours - you really learn more about what's under the skin this way
A lot of the process will be the same from RV to RV But which would you rather use if you were building an RV folks...if quality and longevity and not price was the main factor in your decision making process? Floors & Roof -- OSB vs T&G Plywood ? Radiat Barrier -- Astrofoil (w/ air bubbles) vs hot dog paper? Hardware -- Screws vs pin-nails ? Roof trusses -- All wood or a mix of wood and hollow aluminum channeling Vacuum bonding lamination vs pinch rolling ? American tires or chinese tires? Should I continue ?
Hi, I'm Diego from Brazil! Is there any company that "factory" the (RV or other models) the way I design or just sell their models! because I have ideas to make one of my taste! Is there any site where I can assemble my model! where does each part go and etc...!??
Customization is really not available from the types of builders you see on this channel. But there are some. They tend to be quite spendy as a result as it turns out
Those 5th wheels and RVs are built with the minimum specs.Even the tires barely meet specs. Thats why there are so many complains about quality of RVs these days( and late years).
Dicor needs to go the way of the dodo bird, start using comercial roofing and sealers way better and don't have to climb up every 6 months to gob more dicor on
I used to love Montana RVs but the one we bought this year has made me dislike them and really regret buying one. And Keystone has been horrible as far as support etc. quality had gone so far down hill its not even funny. We had a 2018 375fl which was a great rig but this new 381TB is definitely disappointing. The heat in the rear bed and bathroom is less than adequate. The rooms never get more than 10° warmer than the outside temperature and that stinks when its 35° out and the front rear slides quit working within a few months the tanks were labeled wrong and i can go on and on
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
Uncle Josh, The after hours factory visits are superb. I always learn something new when you're on site.
More to come!
Josh, this is a most outstanding video, this montana is 1 of 2 of my most favorite rigs on the planet! Thank you JW AND BISHES!!! BATTERY DIED.
Another 'PERFECT' rv factory tour. Please keep them coming!!!
Love these factory tours, really helped me understand how the RVs work on the inside👍
Nice walk tru with nice rvs.Really appreciate your work👌👍Thank you
Hi Josh,
I always appreciate factory tours of Montana 5th Wheels, thank you! We own a 2018 Montana Model 3720RL that came with the Norcold 2118 fridge. We do a lot of boondocking on our Canadian snowbird trips to southern Arizona. During our 2021/2022 trip we boondocked 96 days and in 2022/2023 99 days so alot of drycamping. I did alot of work on the back side of the Norcold 2118 to get better cooling efficiency which has really helped being how we operate the fridge on propane during our boondocking. We may eventually convert the fridge to the 12 volt compressor system from JC.
I really appreciate your factiory tour videos. They convey a vast amount of important information. Thank you very much.
Glad you like them!
Thanks for the tour. Not sure if others noticed it not, but there were some noticeable quality issues. A couple of examples.
1. When looking at the welds on the aluminum frames. Some of the welds looked like they were only tacked and not complete. I would think that creates a weak spot.
2. When looking behind the wet bay, I noticed one of the pex pieces up against the aluminum frame. I believe this may eventually wear a hole in the pex if not addressed.
I will have to watch some of your other tours and compare.
Thanks again!
that painted black grey blue and white is just a gorgeous combo. Put it right up there with some of the LUXE line stuff
Thanks Nerd! Now I'll be going down the rabbit hole of your other factory tours so I can see the differences. Good thing I didn't have plans for today lol!!!!
Love my Montana Big Sky. It's 10 years old, but doesn't look its age. Full body paint really makes a difference long term. We've had only 1 problem in all this time. Going with quality mfg makes a big difference. Thank for the tour. You're the best in the industry.
Thanks for sharing!
we ordered an Alpine, and went Residential fridge, we dont dry camp, and we had a home fridge in our last unit and loved it. The inverter is a plus.
Love the factory tours! Seeing how these rigs are put together is extremely helpful in maintaining them! Keep them coming Uncle Josh! BTW when is the Nerd Herd swag coming out?
Thanks for the tour Josh! I'm having a hard time deciding which brand I want to go with.
Go with keystone. Any keystone. Montana is awesome. 😂
I was towing our RV back from vacation last week. I was doing 62mph, the number of RVs passing me at 70mph or more was absolutely incredible. Where the heck is everyone going so fast!? Good thing these tires are rated to 75mph.
Josh this will sound crazy, but I'd ask Keystone to put in a smaller fridge than the 18 or 20cubic foot fridge. While I like the look and function of the residential fridge, I do worry about having to replace it one day in the future. I want a fridge that will fit through the front door. That said, I'd prefer the 20 but still give me a 3000-4000 watt inverter.
You're teaching me a lot. Thanks! I'll have to re-watch to absorb info I didn't pick up the first time. Lol
Great video review, Josh. Way back in 2017, when you were at Haylett, via your great videos, you helped us pick out our then new special order 2018 Montana 3560-RL Legacy with full body paint. We still have it and absolutely love it. I still watch all your industry updates which are very informative. We have the Nor Cold 4 door SS propane / electric refer in our Montana, and I for one, am sad to see them go, great units. You are correct, Montana has been using Sailun tires on their 5th wheels for many years, and they are fantastic tires, as god or better than Goodyear. Keep up the great work, my friend!
Ty so much for sticking with me here!!
You spent a couple minutes showing the use of luan and not Azdel. A year ago I had a conversation with a VP from one of the manufacturers who claimed while Azdel has some benefits, luan is still superior in larger side walls and screw retention. He went on to say the main reason Azdel has suddenly become more widely used is due to cost and supply issues with luan. (His units are Azdel on both wall sides.) Is this something you could do a video on and get to the truth?
One thing I didn't think of when I first started looking at rvs, was while residential fridges are nice, if it goes out (likely around year 3-5), it's not fitting through the door! Slide out! $$
Montana was generally good about making sure they could go out the door
Great video, and wonderful information. I love how you show us what goes into it. I have always believed you should know your equipment, and this video helps with that. Stay safe, and keep smiling!
Will do 😊
Yes, sir, I bought a Montana due to your video. Thank you, brother 😮
Enjoy! Would you mind dropping me a review at g.page/r/CdPcitNVx2nDEAg/review for the help?
I’m loving the factory tour!! Next year I. (Unless something changes my mind) I am going to upgrade to a Montana Legacy 3121RL. Just want to feel a little better about the “frame flex” issues and hopefully I will do it.
Montana has so many of the quality standard features that I hope Go>Play RVs will someday have👍except for the OSB roofing which gets spongy when exposed to water😢
I'd get the 12 volt fridge but also add the converter as an upgrade with the huge solar upgrade and lithium batteries. I'm sure that would add 20k extra on top. Lithium batteries alone can cost up to 12k.
I have a question about a base Montana 3123 with a residential refrigerator and basic solar/inverter. Assuming full sun and being towed for six hours, will the base solar and typical truck charging be enough app input to run the fridge and have enough energy remaining to operate the slides and landing gear? Assuming two group 27 lead acid batteries in good condition.
Thanks for the tour, I've always thought the Montana's were the best value.
The truck power alone will run that fridge for any length of transit
No solar needed
Nice tour, so Keystone RV trailer all the way. Love how they built.
Thanks for watching!
Montana is one of the few high-end 5thWs which does not have tankless water heaters; instead, going with extra large water heater tanks (e.g. 16 or 18 gallons). Could you please explain why Keystone went this route with its top-of-the-line model? It seems contrary to Montana's high standards.
I can’t really speak in their behalf. That might be a question for the Montana designers themselves.
@@JoshtheRVNerd Uncle Josh, I was let down by your rationalization. This is not a proprietary thing for which you might be sued for corporate espionage. If you don't know, you don't know. There is no harm for speaking the truth about why Montana went with conventional tank heaters over tankless. I'll bet an America Eagle gold ounce (just an expression; yet about $2,500.00) that you do, in fact, know why Montana stayed conventional when every Cougar and just about every other Keystone model is outfitted with tankless. I know you have too much curiosity in your field of endeavor to not know.
@@rogerspalding5673 again I can only speculate, but I would estimate they are sticking with some thing that has tried and true so they’ve gone with a larger version of it recently to help expand usage
@@JoshtheRVNerd Uncle Josh, thank you for tolerating my second pesky question about Montanas. I am no one special, but this was the answer for which I was looking. I am 70 years old, but feel like 30. So, I am closer to the end than I am to the beginning. As you say so eloquently, my second RV will also be my last. High end Cougars, Montanas, North Points, Pinnacles and High end Eagles comprise my potential acquisitions. The super luxe full profile 5thWs, Super Cs and Class As don't return all that much for the prices one pays. Your opinions are the most authoritative and educated of all on the 'net. My local salesmen would lie about their own mothers to make a sale; totally untrustworthy. Accordingly, I rely on you for true accurate info. This is why I bother you so. Thanks for your patience. You, and the Bishs, may not know how important your thoughts and opinions are to us, out here among the deplorables.
@@rogerspalding5673 My pleasure! keep them coming 😊
Bishin review!
I really appreciate seeing how these are built.
😊
I have a desk in my slide. It's a small 48" x 24" desk that has me facing towards the bedroom when I sit down. It's doable.
Awesome. Good to know. TY
I could not agree more, not only mini split, which is a great system, tried & true! Yet, there are other alternatives like 12 volt A/Cs!
Great job Nerd😊 Cheers from Vancouver 🇨🇦
Really enjoyed this thorough tour - thanks Josh! #Nerdstradamus #NerdHerd
Glad you enjoyed it!
I’m still not totally convinced about solar power production on RVs. Many people love to boondock. Hence, in the woods, along shaded river banks, in hunting or fishing seasons, then solar power production is low due to shade, low sun angles and even extended cloudy days going into a week or better. Two acquaintances have solar packages on their 2022 & 23 RVs. Both have generators to make sure power is available for their refrigerators. Luckily on my 2020 Cougar, my refrigerator is gas or electric. Their experience hasn’t been all that great with solar.
Montana 3231CK is the model and the one we own !!!
👍🏻
We have a 2021 3231ck love it.would not chang anything
Awesome video, I always enjoy seeing how different companies put their RV’s together.
As far as the Fridge question: I’m all about the 18 cubic foot residential fridge with the 2000w inverter. 18 cubic foot is plenty enough room for cold storage. Plus that’s one less thing you have to add to your solar system package and you’ll have power to all your outlets even when you’re not hooked up to shore power. We have the 18cu residential fridge that came with a 2000w inverter 30a mppt charger and 2 - 220w solar panels. Obviously we can’t run the AC’s but I don’t have to worry about my fridge not running or making sure I turn it on in time to load up for the trip. We love having the residential fridge and inverter.
Normally I'd prefer just a 12v fridge as I feel it is more flexible. But including a 2k inverter is.. interesting. Allows for some handy add'l benefits
Still not great for boondocking of course
@@JoshtheRVNerd oh of course! I could never imagine going full off grid with our current factory solar setup. I’m just happy we can travel with our fridge on and not be a Judas Priest violator (using propane and propane accessories ~ Hank Hill). I’ve been watching so many lithium battery and solar system videos that I could put a system together that would probably still burn down the house because even though I did stay at a holiday Inn Express I still don’t have the real knowledge or experience. 😂 But I’m learning.
Great video again. We bought a Intech Expedition and I love the aluminum roof on ours, but the only thing I don’t like is a need to put plywood down to walk on it
It is nice having one that’s just walkable for sure. Intech makes nice stuff though
Hey Josh ! Awesome factory tour ! Thnx !
Glad you enjoyed!
Yeah pex is great but I would pay a couple hundred more for brass pex fittings. I use pex a lot and pay extra for the stainless steel rings as they do last longer. But I use mainly 1 inch stuff. But I'm more old school than most.
I see where Brinkley is the first in the industry to start using brass pro fittings. Be nice if Keystone followed suit. PLUS a great selling point! I too would pay a few hundred extra for it!
18 cubic frig so I get the 2000 watt inverter for the plugs. In this case a little less is more. Denis from Santa Rosa CA.
👍🏻 Ty
Thanks for the tour.
Hey Josh, could you possibly do a factory tour for the mid-line Cougars sometime)? Someone did do a factory tour video for the 1/2-ton line, but they are not the same as the mid-line units.
Absolutely on my list of things to do. Thank you.
I like the way they are built.
What year did the company start with current construction practices.
Looking for used RV.
If they used heat pump AC's then you wouldn't need floor heating, except a wall heating duct to the sub floor for winter heating.
Standard furnace heating still helps protect the tanks in the belly
It's obvious why Montana has the rep and sales it does for full timers and snowbirds.
I just have it in my head I don't want to limit myself for sites and a small couples fifth wheel will be my "last" rv after a dozen in my family or I owned.
Montana gonna make a tiny one ;)
And 12v fridge.
Even if I bought a used rv, I want a 12v. More than enough experience with old style, even fancy old style like on my 34J Bounder with the 3 way fridge.
Replacing old boards with a dragon lord or replacing the entire back cooling unit on the gas /electric, been there done that.
We have sailun tires on our keystone Fuzion Chrome….2016 model! Original set!
Sailuns work pretty nicely
12 volt refrigerator all day long, no question!!!
Thank you for the true look at the Montana!
Question to you, Josh, Brinkley or Montana?,?
Kinda depends on which layout I'm looking at. Neither is really ever the wrong call
I would choose the 12v fridge. Can you option disc brakes and 9K axles? How about low profile A/C with a heat pump?
Disc brakes are part of the Legacy package. They’ve been doing AC heat pumps for years.
The bedroom slide being more reliable is a good thing because it is impossible to operate manually. I’m sure the manual system works just fine but getting a human body in position to engage the tool into the motors ain’t gonna happen. I have a 2024 3123RL.
This was really interesting to see, thankyou. The Montana is one of my favourites of those I've seen. #nerdherd
Glad you enjoyed it!
I’m a fan of Montana’s but I wish they were wide body like Alliance or the Jayco Pinnacle and had full-size Insignia stoves.
They're one of the few luxury FW brands that hasn't gone to wide body. North point recently made the switch.
Montana's sister, Alpine, is wide body so perhaps they're trying to remain differently
We would get the 12volt fridge. We will 99% camp with full hookups. So my truck battery will power the fridge while traveling and the shore power will at the camp grounds.
With the solar and batteries should have the residential frig
I still truly don't understand why rvs are still using such outdated ac systems. A mini split uses half of the electricity and is massively more efficient.
Why would anyone care of the operating cost when electricity is included with your site. Year round or daily sites. The Mfg can probably buy a lot of traditional a/c’s for a better cost than heat pumps. For a home? Sure. 😊
@@andre9191 My full time site has it's own meter. I pay the electricity. FYI
Hard to pack a detailed response into a reasonably sized comment, but in my best attempt:
1. Cost; an RV owner can buy a 13.5K A/C unit without a heat pump for ~$1,000 and with a heat pump for under $1,500 pretty easily, and everything is self contained except the ducting. So call it $2,500 - $3,000 for 27K BTU with heat pumps . A decent split unit setup with say 3 zones ( say one for the rear, one for the front and one for the middle to try and balance things ) for the same BTU's will be probably closer to $4,000.
2. Installation/Logistics; Instead of ducting in the roof, you're going to need to to run the lines through the floor/roof and the walls of the RV. But before that, where is the main unit going to go? On the rear of the coach where someone could mess with it? Under the coach where it could be damaged during transit, on top of the coach somehow where it can also be damaged? Then, you'll be dealing with a heck of a time if anything goes wrong with the lines like they develop a leak. These are issues I've come across with clients of mine who have bought tiny homes, some who moved it just once and had an issue with the split system, or some who tried to use it like a trailer and move it to multiple locations when it really wasn't built for that.
3A. Current hardware on the market; In larger coaches that have power management systems ( where essentially the entire coach is electric, cooktop, water heaters, etc ), these units wouldn't work as they are designed now, but with some modification it's possible they could. So what you could use that's available on the market now might be good for a smaller lower power draw situations at best.
3B. If you contact a customer service department for a split unit and ask about their warranty coverage on an RV, or anything like a tiny home that's in transit, you may find you have no coverage right out of the door. Similar for how certain appliance companies don't warranty their appliances in an RV based on where the appliance is installed in the RV ( IE on/behind a rear axle ). Again, this could be improved with design enhancements, but just something to think about with the hardware currently on the market.
4. Who is going to service the split unit? If your instinct is that another benefit of the split is that it could be serviced by a residential air conditioning company, I would first say to contact your local company and then see if they would service one in your house if it wasn't installed by them, and then ask them if they would service it in an RV. Probably as soon as you say RV, they'll say no. This was the problem Coleman dealt with on their "residential" air conditioning system that was used in the early 2000s. Well that problem and the way most manufacturers handled the ducting. But the idea then was that you would have this residential system that a residential HVAC tech could deal with. In reality though, just because it had the word "residential" didn't make any HVAC company more willing to work on it once they heard it was in an RV.
So in summary, until the RV industry could work with and get HVAC companies to proactively commit to working on their units, which would involve all sorts of things that aren't going to happen including part standardization, etc you're not going to see much progress, especially since the Coleman was closer to a residential system or a smaller commercial system, that could checked all the boxes the split unit attracts, and then some, yet still couldn't gain any momentum.
I would say in a tiny home, or a retrofit to an RV that is parked at a permanent site, if the servicing of the unit is thought about ahead of time, a split unit might be the way to go in certain situations.
Also, for what it's worth in regards to efficiency, while rooftop RV units aren't required to have things like SEER ratings to compare to a split unit, largely due to their size I believe, you may find that in an RV you wouldn't get the efficiency the split unit was rated for anyway, as those units are tested in residential type configurations ( building and insulation materials ) , and maybe more importantly those SEER ratings involve seasons I believe so most people aren't living in a fixed area with their RV, and even those who do aren't in an RV that is built the same as a home from an insulation perspective, so you may not find such a noticeable difference in "the real world".
I'm not sure what you meant by "uses half of the electricity" unless you meant overall monthly usage by the efficiency, but in the end, if you meant something like wattage per advertised BTU while in use, again when running for a month versus the rooftop units, my experience through my clients who are paying for long-term/permanent sites that have the split units installed and are paying for their electric isn't that they're saving a ton of money per month by having the unit, and in the summer it's your primary contributor to electric costs.
There are 12 volt AC's as well.
Actually. There are a lot of campgrounds converting to paid electric now and not including power with the lot since more and more manufacturers are starting to go electric fully with no propane. So why not start making these things more efficient by updating the AC/heat pump technologies. Can’t stay stuck in the past much longer. Times are changing fast.
I think it would be an interesting video comparing and contrasting construction differences between Montana and Cougar. It seems like they have the same bones and construction process, but Montana has "higher end" interiors. Maybe there's something else we aren't seeing?
I got you m.ruclips.net/video/lj-78DQLs_E/видео.html
That’s slightly dated but mostly still holds up
@@JoshtheRVNerd thanks!
Greetings and glad tidings! Great video, as always!! I do not do well with the off-gassing from OSB, how have they addressed this in their floor and ceiling decking?
Thanks!!!
When will we see a Bish's in Washington State?
Tony
I’ve not heard of any manufactured, doing anything significantly different in that regard
Cedar Creeks are much better built hence I do reckon that they are better value for the money. Keystones, Jaycos and many others are mere eye candies.
Also what are the new tables? I want to do the same in my camper. Like what are the brackets under it called? Thanks for all these videos!!!!
I’m not sure of a specific name. Sorry.
@@JoshtheRVNerd No problem. Your videos are awesome!! Thank you for sharing all your knowledge!!
Pretty paint schemes
Josh… great channel. Was watching a clip on wife’s account. Was a Montana model… you asked opinion or question about would buyer choose a 18cu ft on inverter vs 20 cu ft on 12V. Do you have another video I’m not seeing explaining difference? Thanks Tim
18cu ft is a 110 residential fridge. It includes a 2,000w inverter that is run to the prepped outlets
The 20cu ft is a 12v only and doesn't require an inverter. So it's larger, but the outlets only work when plugged into shore power
Nice video Josh, very informative. We have a 2022 3791rd and I've never seen how they're built. Where is it that you are located? Thanks for the tour/information!
My home store is in southern Michigan but we have about 23 locations nationwide now
Great video Josh. Maybe you can do one for the construction of the High Country model. I have a 2022 331rl and had the roof replaced because they don't build them like what you showed in this video and my roof panels were all popping up and had to be replaced. Seems they take a lot of shortcuts to make them lighter and cheaper.
Construction of HC is the same really. It’s just a matter of appointments
Nice presentation.
here is a thought. when you were talking about how the crimp works. could montana get a "lesser" radius for there 90% for the pex to connect to? as the tight 90 they are using can restrict the flow, and cause a drop in usable pressure. as well as make the water pump work harder.
that's good having a door that everything can fit through. as not everybody likes a lumpy mattress. or just maybe wants to bring in there comfy arm chair.
i would go big. 20cft. as need space to hold food so i can be out there for 4 weeks or longer.
Good insight on the elbow bends.. passing that along
Hey Josh, where can I find some of those vortex ceiling registers?
I checked Etrailer and Amazon but I don't see them.
I'd like to replace the old style ones in my RV.
Keystone exclusive
Very interesting. 32 years manufacturing/welding. Retired. Not impressed with the aluminum welding.
2023 Montana 3231CK. Because we just bought one.
Nice, good information.
Josh, have you done a video on the Keystone Montana 295RL?
Slightly dated but here you go m.ruclips.net/video/jrr1seB_eUg/видео.html
Sorry Josh didnt know how to contact ya. is there a travel trailer out there use like a car ev battery to plug in and charge and run every off it. Thanks for what you do.
This is a perfectly fine way to reach me! No worries!
There are some RVs with different types of batteries. I'm not sure exactly what some EV's use
But things like the Winnebago FLX package or Rockwood Power Package use some different types/systems
Van Leigh, Brinkley, or Montana, then. This was helpful.
Already have a Brinkley factory tour and vanleigh towables was shuttering last I knew
Josh, I love you man but we played a drinking game every time you said “uh” we drink and after reviewing the aluminum structures I am on my way to the emergency room to get my stomach pumped out.
That’s the down side to being unscripted
Juggling a lot in my head and my mouth tends to move faster
Then my default neutral brain gear is uhhhhhh
That’s the sound of my brain idling
@@JoshtheRVNerd you do great!!! I really appreciate the efforts you put in to be fair and unbiased yet promote as well.
Front bedroom rear living
👍🏻
Do all Legacy models come with the molded rear caps? If non-automotive paint, do they look the same as standard Montanas or is there a different decal package?
Most do
The ones that don’t have those rear cargo slide out trays and they don’t have a cap that fits it
Have you ever done a Cougar Fifth Wheel factory tour?
Not YET but it's on my list of things to accomplish.. which I feel grows instead of shrinks
Josh, what’s up with all the wood?
Nearly no RV uses no wood. Frankly most "laminated" RVs still use wood in the front/rear walls or roof/floor.
That montana floorplan looks like a 3231CK
👍🏻
If not using a CNC router what are they using that won't cause cracks? I seriously doubt the router would lead to cracks unless not using proper coolant and air blast
Like most RVs, their hand, routed with jigs and cuts are framed out
21:29 still no shock absorbers? No wonder they bounce down the road.
Is this tour specific to Full Monty or do they uses these same manufacturing processes/principles in High Country and Legacy just different cabinets trim etc or are the HC and Legacy completely different.
Legacy is just trim atop a full Monty. So made right here
HC follows same practices in its own plant
#NerdHerd ❤ ❤ ❤ We love are Montana 🎉 😊
3901RK
I have a bone to pick with you. You stated that Montana doesn't use "garden hose" tubing but it is clearly evident in the video. The white braided hose, attached with Pex clamps, is located behind the water panel. That is a KNOWN failure point in water systems. Why did you say it wasn't present? I'm a RV tech/inspector is this is something I look for, especially during an inspection, but as a tech I see this as a failure point in many RVs.
Josh, what are the first and second most popular lines of fifth wheels among Full-Time RVers? If you would be so kind, would you tell me the maker and line, for example, Keystone Montana, or Keystone Montana High Country, or Keystone Cougar, or Jayco Eagle ........ Also, is there a wide margin between the first and second most popular lines? My wife and I are currently looking at fifth wheels and I'm really interested in what other Full-Time RVers are buying. Thank you.
Not sure who is second. I know Montana remains the most frequently chosen for full timing
Why doesn’t anyone use spray foam for insulation????
Residential always
I thought Montana had an all welded aluminum frame? But according to this. It looks like they don't, at least on some of their RV's
The walls are. That's a funny thing about this industry -- SO MANY rvs who talk about "welded aluminum frames" are referencing ONLY the sidewalls
That's why I like to do these factory tours - you really learn more about what's under the skin this way
A lot of the process will be the same from RV to RV
But which would you rather use if you were building an RV folks...if quality and longevity and not price was the main factor in your decision making process?
Floors & Roof -- OSB vs T&G Plywood ?
Radiat Barrier -- Astrofoil (w/ air bubbles) vs hot dog paper?
Hardware -- Screws vs pin-nails ?
Roof trusses -- All wood or a mix of wood and hollow aluminum channeling
Vacuum bonding lamination vs pinch rolling ?
American tires or chinese tires?
Should I continue ?
You're spot on really
Im converting mine
Hi, I'm Diego from Brazil! Is there any company that "factory" the (RV or other models) the way I design or just sell their models! because I have ideas to make one of my taste! Is there any site where I can assemble my model! where does each part go and etc...!??
Customization is really not available from the types of builders you see on this channel. But there are some. They tend to be quite spendy as a result as it turns out
Those 5th wheels and RVs are built with the minimum specs.Even the tires barely meet specs. Thats why there are so many complains about quality of RVs these days( and late years).
Quick note: All tires now have to exceed GVWR by 10% though that definitely wasn't previously the case years ago
Is it the 3132 CK
hey Josh, well done video however, if it's not azdel it's not Good. Alliance and Brinkley are walking all over these guys.
Why don’t these companies use on demand tankless water heaters
3231 floor plan
I’m buying one next month. Love the floor plan
Dicor needs to go the way of the dodo bird, start using comercial roofing and sealers way better and don't have to climb up every 6 months to gob more dicor on
🎉#NerdHerd
i would love to buy a montana ...but the price has me out of the market.
I used to love Montana RVs but the one we bought this year has made me dislike them and really regret buying one. And Keystone has been horrible as far as support etc. quality had gone so far down hill its not even funny. We had a 2018 375fl which was a great rig but this new 381TB is definitely disappointing. The heat in the rear bed and bathroom is less than adequate. The rooms never get more than 10° warmer than the outside temperature and that stinks when its 35° out and the front rear slides quit working within a few months the tanks were labeled wrong and i can go on and on
Good info, thanks, was considering the 381TB, versus the new Brinkley 3950, for full time RVing family of 4
sailun is a chinese company/tire.
12 volt and more solar.
👍🏻
What seems like the right level of minimum Solar understanding these are commonly used in parks
What fridge would I get. If you want me to buy your $100K trailer, you will put a gas/electric refrigerator in it.
So ? is Montana Better than theJayco.
There’s not a simple yes or no answer. If there was, then we wouldn’t sell them both
They each have qualities that stand out over the other