Thank you Alex! Between your and Quinns' (Shut Up and Sit Down) reviews my expectations are now well and truly tempered. I am still awaiting my all-gameplay pledge but I will give it a thorough go before trading it away.
Alex, stand up and take a bow for one of the most candid and pragmatic (and well-delivered) reviews that you've posted. I hemmed & hawed about backing this when the campaign was live (wasn't this the game that allowed you to place cards on top of one another in irregular patterns to create the 'dream map'?) but ultimately bypassed it. I was awed by the lush artwork, but got an early uncertain vibe about some core aspects of the gameplay. I will further rationalize my decision by echoing the negative points you raise, but I'm also intrigued by your considered enthusiasm for the game it aspires to be. Your overall conclusion reminds me of my experience with Lords of Hellas- I love that game despite its flaws. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! 🖖
Oh, you have made my day. Starting a video by actually diving right in, instead of what people usually do, two minutes of “here is what I am going to talk about”. Please keep doing this. We already know from the title what you are going to talk about!
Have to say I love SUSD but .... they are incredibly pretentious with any game that is ‘big’. In general they don’t like most things Kickstarter. Same as no pun included. I say this as a British board gamer. I always generally assume if both of the above dislike big campaign games I’ll probably love them 😉.
Unless they're friends with the people who made it ;) Gloomhaven. But ya I agree with you. I've struggled with the same thoughts, great reviews for the most part, but they're contrarian at times.
Thanks for the review. Really enjoy the style of your videos. Impressed by how you manage to create an almost 20 min video almost without misspeaking. I had to record a 90 second clip the other day and really struggled :D. Thanks for the content!
Great video and really original opinions as usual. You acknowledged everything other reviewers said while bringing in the much needed "Alex" flair. I'm excited to get Etherfields to the table today.
Yep the board is terrible. The rulebook does not get you started at all. Once you've downloaded all the fan made rules/quick starts the rulebook does an ok job of being a rules reference from the appendix, but certainly was not an easy read. That said I kind of love the game. I think this game is just going to review poorly because it has lots of grindy looking/feeling mechanics, but it doesn't actually let it become a grind. But requires a bit of time investment to discover all the mechanics that deal with all the things that are easy to point out that are poor design in the weird start where you just don't know if the game is amazing or not. I definitely think that playing this at 2 player makes it really fun, because you can offload a bit of the management like someone is flicking through cards, while the other is reading through the secret scripts. But yes the first 4-5 dreams you are going to do the boring refresh often, which feels bad. This is not how the game ends up playing out after that start though. You do totally notice that this is translated though, but if you've played an AR game before, it's just more of the same. Yes there is errata, just look it up and write it into the book. I'd add some more positives: -The wisdom card mechanic is excellent. I actually pulled out a couple more pages from TCG files to add the note cards to so I could have everything out at once. -Lucid Mode is wicked. -The slumbers really hardly become something you have to deal with, half of them become something good, you unlock other tools to deal with the rest of them both to skip/or to gain rewards easier. -The deckbuilding gets really good with Prepared Cards that you unlock can set up some really strong combos. I've now completed 6 dreams in a row without doing an awakening (7th to 13th). And don't see needing to do an awakening anytime soon unless things go wrong somehow. So yeah you are going to keep your progress cards setup which means your deckbuilding pays off. -The secret scripts narrative gets really really good at specific points. Every dream is so different. I don't have a favourite.
The way I feel about this game: ain't nobody got time for that! But more seriously I really like the aesthetics of the game but it would never hit the table.
Thanks for that well-balanced report! Still waiting for the language version here, and I hope the manual is not a mess, keeping me from playing. I will check that 4 page guide you have mentioned - thanks for the hint! I'll also keep in mind that skipping some slumbers might be a good idea... :)
Yeah the rules totally shouldn't stop you. The four-page guide will get you up and running, and from there you'll find yourself referencing the rulebook as needed.
Tbh, this and SDSU’s review of Etherfields curbed my enthusiasm for ISS Vanguard. Should we be worried about that game? Will it turn out to be unplayable or just plain boring?
@BoardGameCo I love your videos, but is a comparison video between Etherfields and ISS Vanguard even valid at this stage? You have a prototype of Vanguard, not the shipped game. You’ve seen a part of what AR want to show you. There will be more surprises you are not aware of, and it has months more development before it is committed. I’d hazard a guess you’ve seen more of Etherfields at this stage than Vanguard so please be careful not to inadvertently mislead in your comparisons.
Thanks Alex for the shoutout re the 4 page rules (even though you didn't know my name :P). Anyway I'm planning to edit the in-game tutorial scripts so that it guides you a little bit better (via an app that a few of us are working on as a fan project). Think of it as you will, a video games "patch" (but for a board game).
Etherfields put out an update on continuous dream mode, a way to skip slumbers. www.kickstarter.com/projects/awakenrealms/etherfields-board-game/posts/3045465
I pledged pretty much all in but single shipment, so won't see it for a while. Now I am looking forward to it, but wary at the same time. It should be interesting. Thanks for the review
Actually I like the slumbers because they give you time to get ready for a hard to beat dream. Set up your progress cards get your shinning gems. If you play the tough guy or specialist you can set your progress cards. And huge spoiler alert read on your own decision. Some slumber rewards have to do with the mystery path which unlocks you the lucid mode and one more dream.
another great video Alex. love your content! was interested in this but just seems.....too much. I love This War of Mine & Nemesis, they for me are perfect games. More succinct and managable than Tainted Grail or Etherfields. Have Arkham Horror LCG that scratches whatever itch Etherfields may instigate. But we are all so blessed to have so many games to choose from!
Interesting too see this game recent videos, it looks like it's so close to perfection I guess it will receive a second kickstarter to address all those, as always great contents
Thanks :) And yes, I do imagine this might get a 2nd KS....almost a shame as that would mean I'm playing the unrefined version....that said I'm enjoying it :)
As always. Thanks for a wonderfully passionate review. The theme didn't pull me in, although the production quality caught my eye. Looking forward to your comparison review with ISS vanguard as it's theme and the prototype overviews have peeked my interest. Curious if the box of miniatures will add to the experience.
Unless you have to give a speech to your graduating class in your underwear then this game is a total failure. I'm going to go ahead and say it fails because they lacked the courage to face down that lion.
You say you have kept with it and are looking forward to playing it time and time again, yet you showed by showing us the wisdom page, that you are no where near along in your campaign as SUSD was. You were probably still at (when making this video) the point where SUSD was, enjoying the game immensely.
This is a game I'd like one of my friends to buy so I can play once. But it's really not my kind of game. It would end up sitting in the shelf for years. Great review as always!
I play Etherfields with 3 people and the game board isn't that bad with that many people. Everyone at the table equally can't see things haha. This wouldn't be much different if we had decided not to use the board though. The board would be hot garbage for solo play though. Other than that, I have really enjoyed Etherfields and think that most people's critique is just a matter of person taste since I haven't been bothered by what most people have said. Another thing I can agree with is that the rules for the game aren't super clear until you play it for a few dreams. This is evidence by the fact that there is a 3rd party 4 page document to help you get started. I think some of the complexity comes from 2 things: #1 not all rules will make sense when you read about it since you don't have access to those things immediately and #2 the terms for things aren't as clearly delineated as I might have liked. For example, Dreamscape, Dream Gate, Dream World, Slumber Deck, and Slumber Map. Once you get the hang of things and understand the terms, this game is great. I did the Dreamer Pledge originally since I didn't know what to expect from this game. Now that I do, I've gone back and purchased all of the other gameplay expansions + 5th player. People have complained about the Creatures of Etherfields being unnecessary, which is surprising since they are a cosmetic upgrade and have no gameplay value. I have personally loved dropping in a physical miniature for the Butcher, but the Butcher token they give you can serve the same purpose if you didn't have the mini.
Tha is for stating your opinion and your reasons. I own Etherfields and I believe I will highly enjoy it when I actually am not working 10+ hours a day. One question I have is what do you think about the storage aspects?
@@BoardGameCo Ok, I haven't done more than just play through the intro scenario so I haven't learned how the scenarios will set into the storage aspect. Thanks for the reply
This whole Slumbers aspect.....it seems like any RPG video game--Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Elder Scrolls, heck, even Zelda II--where you travel between points of interest and have random encounters with enemies thrust upon you. Those encounters can be exciting at first but can become a bit mundane or irritating later on. It that what is going on? But in an RPG, at least you are getting some gold or experience from those encounters that will help advance you. Not sure if there are any small benefits provided by playing the Slumbers aspect?
I'm *ALL* in Wave 2 in for this...!! I was a little worried about this game because of some of the polarizing reviews but YOUR review hands down *EXACTLY* what I needed to hear. Not 100% happy about two (2) issues you raised:. 1. Miniatures (enemies/bosses) are not needed, hardly utilized... 2.) Narratives, just read book, I know what you mean, but I'm hopeful that this is just maybe 5% ~15% true if it's more like 40% or more, I'm going to be upset that I spent $$$ on a gigantic mystery/horror/suspense novel... I will tell you that I *ANTICIPATE* re-visiting the dream sequences again and again (replayability) just to ensure *ALL* cards have been reviewed/exhausted, (some cliche inserted here about leaving no stone unturned..) Overall VERY VERY happy for this review and glad to be a patron on Patreon for you!!! Keep this up please!!! :D :D :D
Happy to help :) I would say both those points are valid, but not the end of the world. Given your excitement and degree of issues I'd assume your fine.
I think you should mark your calendar or remember to do a 'return review' where you revisit your initial review after you have more time and play sessions under your belt. It would be interesting to see how your experience changes over time.
thank you for the material. Your feedback is very valuable and it is completely different from SU&SD. You talk about the downsides, but you also talk about the pros and feel like it's just your opinion. The SU&SD review, on the other hand, is (of course in my opinion) a display of total hatred, surly and contempt. I have long since unsubscribed from this channel. I like factual, constructive reviews without unnecessary clowns for me. And above all, with the class and culture that you have and that SU&SD lacks
If you take Quinns at his word, then I am not sure that is what one should have taken away from his review. Sounds like he liked much of the game, but not the sum of its parts. Alex points out many of the same flaws, but has less issues with them. I do wonder if Alex, or anyone really, would play this game, see it and then decide to purchase it. This is the issue with reviews of these types of products.
I think it's perfectly fine to feel comfortable with your personal gaming experience, even if it doesn't align with Quinns & company @ SUSD. I've enjoyed Tapestry, Scythe and Lords of Hellas which are games that ultimately were not recommended. They also lauded Wingspan, which is no doubt a "good game" but the theme (or lack thereof) is a non-starter for me. Negative reviews are useful because it compels me to evaluate what I find enjoyable about a game's structure or execution. But when Quinn's quasi-dissed Prophecy of Kings? Heresy! 😱
It is hard to find good narrative oriented games - this review makes me want to play it. SU&SD cheated this game to a level that they could just read the lore - I didn't find their review helpful. ביקורת מעולה, תודה אלכס
Yes, I feel about SU&SD's review the way I felt about NPI's review of The 7th Continent-if you cheat instead of solving the core puzzles of the game you can of course report that you had a bad time, but I don't think you can call it a complete review.
Thanks for the informative review Alex. Reading the comments of any review is always an interesting study of bias confirmation. I personally didn't back this, but was close, and I'm glad I didn't based on the reviews (which comforts my bias!). However I'm also glad to hear that the game is really enjoyable with modifications - and the information on this is spreading around so everyone might just enjoy it and, perhaps, lead to the developers releasing an updated rulebook, or 'version 2', for everyone in the future.
I really feel like i got a different box from everyone else... I absolutely love the slumbers i have an absolutely fantastic time always discovering something new every time. I currently have completed 13 dreams (plus had to repeat 2 twice and 1 three times, and have done 3 of the return dreams) and i still look forward to flipping over the slumber cards.
You completely nailed it with this review, and I agree with you 100%. I’ve finished the wave 1 content, and I plan on replaying it with a different character or two.
Hi Alex! On the chat with Marcin you asked him what could be the next AR recieving a second edition... And Martin did not answer straight away... Well... how about Etherfields? I decided not to back it, and the negative points are legit... Sounds like a great opportunity for a second version, don´t you think? Regards!
I really want to like this game. Love the theme. Wondering if people, more familiar with Awaken Realms, can share a hypothesis for what the retail version will end up costing.
While Etherfields and I.S.S. Vanguard are mechanically very different games, both focus on narration and exploration. Completely subjectively: which experience did you enjoy more - the Vanguard prototype or the core game of Etherfields that you played up to this point in your personally modified way? And if you enjoyed one more - why?
House-rule the shit out of it and it is an immensely enjoyable experience, that seems to be the red string that goes through ARs narrative games. I honestly don't like that, because I usually don't want to tailor a game to playability because a publisher didn't test enough to assert that grind is not a fun mechanic, and let's be honest, it is mostly grind and repetition that holds down those games (looking at you, Tainted Grail).
I totally understand and agree....I actually have a full video coming soon about house ruling games, when I'm ok with it, when not and all that. Usually I'm not.
Interesting take, and it's good that you're trying to take a different perspective here. Ultimately, that's what reviews are for, and why your review, the glowing positive ones, and the hard negative ones all have merit. The true value of a game isn't in an average score, but in what a game does for you. I rather have five reviewers with each differing opinions than five reviewers that all parrot the same opinion to not upset BGG/some arbitrary score average/some community consensus (see Videogames, where some gamers will freak out en masse if a game only gets a 8.9 out of 10). What I'm taking from your review is that my group should probably try this game again with more houserules. Much like Dark Souls (which I am so very conflicted on), the base game may be deeply flawed, but house rules might help get to the good bits more often and consistent, leading to ultimately more fun. We bounced off hard the first time, and that was almost entirely due to the slumbers, keys and some of the deck buildy aspects. But everyone also agreed: The actual dreams were really interesting.
This the type of game collectors and enthusiasts are going to have to buy just because of the controversy. From people who say, no, we’ve fixed it, they way we play it, it’s now amazing, to yeah, you’ve got to play it just to experience had bad it is.
Is it that these slumbers are just not that good? Or do people just not like them because it is a "grind", i. e. they just have to actually work for their rewards? ^^ Which makes the bad opinions seem like they are saying "I just want to get the rewards without having to work for them." - No offense! I'm just curious to know if this is more or less true or if there is already a lot you work for even without the slumbers.
It's a grind, they aren't bad. There was a time in my life where I was fine with grinding through things. Nowadays I certainly don't mind a challenge and a struggle, but the idea of repetitive sequencing with no real strategic depth or change in order to get out of reward isn't something that appeals to me.
Anybody else still waiting on there copy.? I was told it won't ship until next wave. Apparently I backed the wrong delivery method. I only ordered the plain base game.
Great review! Do you think the comment about the miniatures will also apply to ISS Vanguard? At first sight the same issue will apply there but I love miniatures :p
Tbh, the crappy written rules is by far my biggest pet peeves with games like this. If I pay for an expensive game I expect it to be crystal clear (even if it's complex and take time to learn).
I don't disagree. It's one of the weaknesses of crowdfunding, of setting a timeline and expectations that have to be met, and therefore sometimes compromises on how much quality control should otherwise be in there. Not an excuse... But a reason.
I have not looked at it yet, but it's probably on the bgg website under the files section of the game. I found most of the files I'm looking for there for any game.
Etherfields improved for me once I decided to be flexible with slumbers, where for SUSD it collapses once he had to leave the rulebook behind. I think Etherfields is a glorious core with poor choices scattered around it. I think its a BGG top 50 game if it was just the dreams, so cheat and make it so. Good review.
That’s the same way I treat Tainted Grail: if a rule is getting in the way of the fun: I ignore it or change it. Are you going to rob yourself of fun because you want to be beholden to the rules? Unless you are playing competitively, who cares? Good even review of the game. I have it on order and look forward to diving into this dream-world. Cheers!
Another good video, though perhaps some of my feelings there is purely because you like the game... which I still haven't managed to get to the table. Space issues as much as time issues, but I still look forward to it. I've noticed recently that I have difficulty recognizing that a game can be flawed, perhaps notably, and yet still be enjoyable and worth having in my collection. As well, that it is okay to change the rules if they're getting in the way of the experience. Especially something like Etherfields, where the narrative IS such a big part of the game, I think it's perfectly okay to do such. Even more if you're playing a solo game. From what I've heard of the review from various sources, I still don't know that I feel like actually watching the SUSD video, but thanks for helping show that it is both not a perfect game, and that it's okay for it not to be a perfect game. Separate, I do greatly look forward to the rules set that AR is planning to release that removes slumbers, if for no other reason than the campaign sounds awful long even without them, and that's not even counting all the expansion campaigns once wave 2 comes in...
I love how you and Quins basically said the same positive and negative things about this game, but your takeaway was, "Try it! It's really good in spite of all its flaws!" and his was "Avoid this game! You'll thank me!"
Yep. I can't disagree with much that he said....but I think the game is excellent. Ambitious, broad, thinky, haunting.....all good things once you take the flaws out of the way.
I think the key thing Quinns is referring to is the sheer expense. If this was £20 (or whatever) it might be worth a look for how different it is, but most people that don't have 200+ games collections, there are way better games to get for a fraction of the cost of an Awaken Realms game. Which is often a problem with critics reviewing their games, they never tend to factor in the sheer cost of the game, I get that affects people differently but I still wouldn't be too happy paying hundreds for something that was this sloppy and even a fan of the game says to skip entire sections of it
@@seansteel328 £75 for 100 hours seems like a good price. Even if you skip the slumbers, it still seems fair compared to traditional one-and-dones. Of course, I don't think we know anything about retail pricing yet.
@@stephenspackman5573 I think this "£75 for 100 hours is ok" thought is part of the reason behind the poorly designed aspects of the game, the slumbers. They exist to justify the price, rather than being a part of the game that works, and in that they mimic the copypasted aspects of an open world videogame. Which isn't a charitable comparison. Quinns has a good reason for not recommending the game with that in mind - why suggest people to buy 100 hours for 75 when half of these hours are boring? Paying 50 for 25 great hours is a much better proposition for many people. That doesn't mean you can't like the game. If it really speaks to you, great! It'd just make more sense to argue by merit rather than quantity of hours.
it's hard to understand why play a deeply flawed game, where you have to cheat to enjoy, when there are so many many games out there and so little time to play them all other than for some they have invested a "lot" on money in this one as so almost need to play it so as not to feel really bad about it?
Na, check out my review of reichbusters. I'm happy to sell games that aren't for me no matter the price. The thing is that the issues here don't stop me from enjoying the game.
Great video as always, Alex! Let me ask you a question. If you had played this game with someone else, say a friend or Quackalope, for the first 5 dreams or so. Based on everything you had experienced, would you have gone out and purchased this game? Easy to find something you like in something you invested in after all. Objectively speaking, knowing what you know now, would you have sunk the money in? I often have far different responses to games I have invested in, even if they are okay. I went all-in with 7th Continent, loved what I played and then ended up offloading it. I wouldn't have bought the game had I played it prior to buying. Always curious to see if folks would still take the plunger under those circumstances.
Yes, but factor in that my answer is biased by the fact that when I'm done with it...I'll sell it and likely lose nothing...so it's a cheat of an answer. If I was actually out $150 or so, never to see it again...I think I'd pass. I like it, but to me this isn't a keeper....I'll go through the entire thing and then move on.
Alex SUSD proposed a game with 79$ called "Blood on the clocktower". There was good value for money in this game and not in Etherfields? I suggest you go and see the review. I like their videos, but I dont take everything they say as factors.
I've watched it....I think SUSD backed away from KS after that one. It's tough living your life publicly...every mistake you ever make can be held against you. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with SUSD on most games, but I don't mind that thy may have been inconsistent once.
@@BoardGameCo no it wasnt incosistent, but basically he just mentioned problems that were already spotted in the forums. Nothing new from his rushed review.
AR is something very delightful. They didn’t care about what you buying and your financial situation. They just put it for you. You want miniatures: There you go You want playmats: There you go You want sleeves: There you go You want more? There you go You want nothing? It’s your choice, we make good games and we know it. We just offer you the best.
@@BoardGameCo absolutely, Rolling solo community just put Etherfields as #2 solo game of the year just behind JOTL. Whatever Quinn says, I’m in with Etherfieds. 🙂
To me the flaws are ignorable. Not using the board is...weird. But in no way impacted my enjoyment. Ditching the slumbers is the same. There are many flaws I don't like to ignore, but ignoring flaws for things that I can just take out....that's fine with me.
@@BoardGameCo thanks very much for the reply. I am in the midst of cancelling my all in pledge. Will at least keep the core pledge and give it a try. I house rules Arkham LCH and still enjoyed it, even more after the house rule
Alex, thx for your opinion. I don't know how many dreams i am in but i am so hooked and have to play every day (it is always ready to play and stays where i was when i stoped). I play the tough guy and realy does like him but almost never used his action (maybe twice in all 16 days played). My deck is already over 40 cards big (i never go to awakening so it will stay big), 15 items, 9 wisdoms, 1 s key, a lot of nice slumbers, a lot of flaw cards (some are nice too) and i realy like slumbers to rest from sometimes realy strange dreams. I had to do my last dream over 20 times (to get all availible cards out of it and i hate cheating my self so i don't do it ;) ). I like the board but swoped the places for world maptiles and slumber- / dreamtiles. cheers
@@BoardGameCo in this dream as a solo player with only 1 char it was not possible with less goes to get all and everything out of it and i hate to have an 'unsettlet important business'. cheers
I like the creativity of your adjustments. I *think* I feel better, now, that I didn't get it. I both really liked and did not like the minis (too many Barbie-babes). And the comments about gameplay were both great and disappointing. So, I think I can feel good that I did't buy a game that I'd have to adjust to fit my idea of enjoyment. I look forward to playing with someone else who paid for it. But...i think I made the right choice.
Hey bud I love the game the things I also have a problem with are the board layout I agree it was fine at first then they changed it could of had it modular if they wanted to change it. The rules can be a pain for sure totally agree epically at the start and if you cant play a good bit pretty regularly you will get lost for sure. It is a big set up but we all knew it would based on the amount of cards and how the game runs. But I do like the game its self just these things are a pain but dont take away from my overall enjoyment just adds more time really. Hopefully the app they are now making will help with alot of stuff more so with how to play a game step by step that would be a huge help for alot of people. To me it is a great game I love it :)
I am not as far in, but I had a fun experience with the game so far. The butcher actually entered my dream from the sidelines, but I had a card that let me create a spawnpoint for dream entities, so I let him spawn in a locked toilet, where he stayed for most of the dream. (With the downside of me not being able to explore the toilet myself, but it sure was funny.) I think the fun factor of this game is higher if you play it with other people, they even added cards that let you roleplay.
Hilarious! Poor Butcher! In our game the Butcher never showed up because of a well cut pile of the turncards and some skills that blocks the "morph" never happened lol
One thing I find interesting is that Tapestry was almost universally trashed for being overproduced (and imbalanced, but that's another story), yet Etherfields suffers from the same issue (you said it yourself, the miniatures are absolutely not necessary), yet no one is really complaining about it... I think it's because the game was kickstarted, and miniatures are common in kickstarted boardgames (heck, it's almost a "must" for kickstarted products to have miniatures nowadays!). It inflates the price of the game, but everyone's ok about that? I find it incredibly unfair to complain about that for Tapestry yet be ok with it for kickstarted products. That's not a criticism of your review, it's just a general comment.
Tapestry imho should never have been overhyped as potentially something unique *and* excellent, but rather as a somewhat original light to mid civ-themed preorder eurogame, in the 40-50 usd range, with no minis. Etherfields is a totally different beast, and the minis are de facto an add-on, hence no criticism to the same degree as Tapestry. On top of Nemesis’ success (maybe also TWOM’s) and TG’s KS earned renommée, Etherfields KS campaign was breahtaking and its hype partially but arguably justified by its size.
As long as there are multiple paths to success with each dream then I'm fine with it. If the game devolves to repeating things until you find a singular successful path through the maze then I would either give up or cheat after a while.
So in other words, Etherfields is a great game if: a) You don't use a chunk of the components b) You download a user-created version of the rules rather than attempt to use the ones that come with the game. c) You ignore a significant chunk of the rules that make the game tedious. This is reinforced my view that Awaken Realms as a company is akin to an indie video game developer. They come up with experiences that are quite different and interesting, but they're filled with enough janky edges that you feel like you've got to persevere and will yourself to enjoy the game, rather than simply being able enjoy the game of its own accord. Given the asking price of Awaken Realm's games, I personally can't justify that amount of money on something I have to make myself enjoy. If others can, that's great. But for me, until they get past the issue of the unwanted cruft that seems to affect their games, I'm going to continue to pass on their campaigns/games.
I agree but would rephrase. So in other words, Etherfields is a great game if: a) You don't use the extra board that isn't necessary b) You download a user-created version of the rules that makes the intro to the game easier than the core rules c) You ignore a small aspect of the game that makes the game tedious I don't disagree with your overall point...anyone who wants to skip this because of the cons I listed should do so....but making it sound worse than it is to drive home your point takes away from what is otherwise a reasonable critique. I would note that AR games are on the average incredibly well rated....they might be an indie game dev, but literally every single one of their games is well loved.
@@BoardGameCo Indeed, it might be an addiction as you said the other day, but I very much prefer the experience of following an AR campaign and getting to know so much of a game while it doesn’t even exist, than just preordering another game from another company which stays aways from ks and does bland orthodox implementations of trusted mechanics; it doesn’t mean i back anything blindly, i stayed away from lockdown because i saw no need for it already having nemesis.. and furthermore, AR started as a 4 (?) - man painting studio a few years ago, and now also does videogames with dozens of staff... kind of reminds of a couple of guys building a computer in a garage...
@@BoardGameCo Sorry, I was engaging in a little bit of hyperbole for humor's sake, but it appears I missed the mark. That said, based on your review, you thought the board was poorly designed, and you thought the miniatures were unnecessary (at best). Awaken Realms kind of sell themselves on offering a "premium" experience, yet two of the key things that are typically "blinged out" were outright bad and not really adding to the experience. If you're paying for a premium experience with premium components, but those components are not really adding (or in fact making the game more frustrating), then that sounds like a bad deal to me. So while I exaggerate a little, it doesn't really strike me as particularly invalid criticism. I also think my indie game dev comment is on point. There are many indie game devs that fall into this same bucket - their games are unique and have jank, but are still very well loved by those who fit the appeal of them. I can see the appeal of AR games, but so far, it doesn't seem like they've crafted something that I would say is for me.
No matter how good or bad the game is. Why artificially inflating the price of a game by adding obsolete minituares instead of offering the game at a reasonable price...
After watching the Shut Up & Sit Down review I was just frustrated because while they made valid points, they clearly didn't understand the game like you do and left a very negative review which this game does not deserve. I am happy you clearly grasped that underlying mystery and abstract interpretation laying under the surface of this game. While not perfect, this game is amazing if you let yourself become immersed in it.
Quinns's complaint were all things I had heard/read before on forums or other video reviews. But he definitely seemed to have magnified a lot more than others. But hey, people value things differently. I love the idea of playing w/o the board. It's actually pretty genius lol. Thanks again for another grounded, fair and balanced review! And the reminders to viewers to still weigh what they like/dislike! Btw, I laughed at the "it is what it is" at the end lol.
I generally enjoy the games of theirs that I have played, but they don't break top 50 for me. I haven't played tainted grail, the edge was probably a seven for me, but I'm not a huge fan of skirmish games... Lords of hellus I want to play but haven't yet, etherfields is likely an 8, and iss a higher 8.
Great video. Definitely feel that my initial view of this that it would make a better RPG than a board game is on the mark, at least for my tastes. In fact, I'd be tempted to pick it up to just rip ideas off for some of my similar RPG campaigns/games. Invisible Suns really springs to mind as something and I ordered just the miniatures for this game to use in that one a couple of weeks ago.
This game is better than Tainted Grail (not the story though) and I don’t agree with your view on the intro to the game as it’s easy to grasp but do agree some rules are not explained that well and on BGG there is no doubt a FAQ guide for this. The cards can be too repetitive but I prefer the explore and find system over Tainted Grail.
Good review. It captures my feelings pretty well. Despite it's flaws and barrier to entry, there's still an experience in there that I'm really enjoying. I haven't hit the slumber grind that you and others mention but there's ways to house rule that. It was odd to me that SUSD equated house ruling to cheating, but I guess to each their own.
Interesting how after 9 minutes of detailing the negatives against 4 mins of the positives (which were hardly listed at all, contrary to the negatives) you highly recommend a game that, and I quote, "you need to keep reminding yourself that you're enjoying". Tricky sell that. Considering its price, and how many of the basics they mess up according to so many people (board, rulebook, skippable parts, repetitive phases, nearly irrelevant miniatures, and so on), sounds like I am glad I did not back it.
Alex you did a great review and you did your job well, preparing and reading the rules correct. Most of the negative reviewers, missed rules, played wrong, went godmode.... Quinns even said he didnt see there was text at the back of the cards..... Rushed review....
To be fair Quinns and Alex basically made the exact same points, both good and bad, but came to opposite conclusions based on whether the positives outweighed the negatives or vice versa, in their opinions.
Hi! I'll finally receive my core box in the wave-2 and I'd be very much interested in your thoughts now that you got further down the dreams? I've heard the deck-building experience pretty much kicked off about the 10h marks, which is where you were when reviewing the game. Anyhow, I am very pleased to have seen a more nuanced approach to the review and look forward to see what more content you'll offer us! :)
Yeah, I've struggled to get started with the game. Those few pages from BGG seem like they'll be helpful but I feel like it's a huge task just to understand what cards go where in the box or on the board/table. I guess if they are repetitive and boring then Slumbers are appropriately named.
IMO slumbers start off boring but get better the longer you play! The first hour or so is little repetitive because you have a really small pool of slumbers but the longer you play the more that deck builds and the more varied your slumber experience gets!
I saw the great reviews for this game on BGG and picked it up. Tom Vasel seemed to really like this game but everyone seems to absolutely despise the slumbers and the rulebook. The rulebook is definitely horrendous but if I recall, the game even encourages you to skip slumbers as long as you aren't afraid of possible negative consequences.
@@BoardGameCo Is the creature's of etherfields even worth holding on to? I've barely been able to play my copy but if the minis never get used by the game I might just sell it to make some money.
I wonder if the slumbers can be optional? I haven't played and didn't back it because I didn't know about it. I'm new to Awaken realms games. Majorly late I know. From what I hear, as this is about dreams, I imagine somethings are designed to be changed by house rules?
Sounds like by the time I get it (second wave, rookie mistake) they will have a official work around the slumbers if need be. Despite negatives I am still very much looking forward to this !
The core concept and aesthetic are really appealing to me. That being said I am glad I didn't back it. The complex systems and confusing rules does sound like a train wreck. Ditching the board, cheating and breaking the rules to make the game to work would ultimately lead to me not getting this game to the table. However I would be willing to back a revised/second edition if they address the main issues which could be fixed.
@@BoardGameCo Follow up question, some people on BGG adjusted their rating downwards after playing for a longer time and having played a lot more dreams. Does it get messier? Or does it at the same time also become greater?
Very tempted to backed but was on the fence because I think this game is a better solo experience, and that's fine but I already have plenty of solo games, I would much prefer to play this game but I don't imagine playing with 4 players, and 5 with expansion, seriously? Also tought the same about the layout of the game board, it feels useless and even has a playmat lol, thanks for the info
Thank you Alex! Between your and Quinns' (Shut Up and Sit Down) reviews my expectations are now well and truly tempered. I am still awaiting my all-gameplay pledge but I will give it a thorough go before trading it away.
Honestly, a single tutorial and first full dream imo will give you a good idea of whether you see the promise and potential.
Alex, stand up and take a bow for one of the most candid and pragmatic (and well-delivered) reviews that you've posted.
I hemmed & hawed about backing this when the campaign was live (wasn't this the game that allowed you to place cards on top of one another in irregular patterns to create the 'dream map'?) but ultimately bypassed it. I was awed by the lush artwork, but got an early uncertain vibe about some core aspects of the gameplay. I will further rationalize my decision by echoing the negative points you raise, but I'm also intrigued by your considered enthusiasm for the game it aspires to be. Your overall conclusion reminds me of my experience with Lords of Hellas- I love that game despite its flaws.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts! 🖖
Happy to help Thomas, glad it's useful :)
Oh, you have made my day. Starting a video by actually diving right in, instead of what people usually do, two minutes of “here is what I am going to talk about”. Please keep doing this. We already know from the title what you are going to talk about!
Noted :)
@@BoardGameCo Thank You !
Skiping a video intro makes your day?
Have to say I love SUSD but .... they are incredibly pretentious with any game that is ‘big’. In general they don’t like most things Kickstarter. Same as no pun included. I say this as a British board gamer. I always generally assume if both of the above dislike big campaign games I’ll probably love them 😉.
Unless they're friends with the people who made it ;) Gloomhaven.
But ya I agree with you. I've struggled with the same thoughts, great reviews for the most part, but they're contrarian at times.
SUSD have made positive reviews about both Nemesis and Cthulhu Wars.
Thanks for the review. Really enjoy the style of your videos. Impressed by how you manage to create an almost 20 min video almost without misspeaking. I had to record a 90 second clip the other day and really struggled :D.
Thanks for the content!
It takes time :) A year of doing videos every single day helps :)
Great video and really original opinions as usual. You acknowledged everything other reviewers said while bringing in the much needed "Alex" flair.
I'm excited to get Etherfields to the table today.
Enjoy it :)
Yep the board is terrible. The rulebook does not get you started at all. Once you've downloaded all the fan made rules/quick starts the rulebook does an ok job of being a rules reference from the appendix, but certainly was not an easy read. That said I kind of love the game.
I think this game is just going to review poorly because it has lots of grindy looking/feeling mechanics, but it doesn't actually let it become a grind. But requires a bit of time investment to discover all the mechanics that deal with all the things that are easy to point out that are poor design in the weird start where you just don't know if the game is amazing or not. I definitely think that playing this at 2 player makes it really fun, because you can offload a bit of the management like someone is flicking through cards, while the other is reading through the secret scripts. But yes the first 4-5 dreams you are going to do the boring refresh often, which feels bad. This is not how the game ends up playing out after that start though. You do totally notice that this is translated though, but if you've played an AR game before, it's just more of the same. Yes there is errata, just look it up and write it into the book.
I'd add some more positives:
-The wisdom card mechanic is excellent. I actually pulled out a couple more pages from TCG files to add the note cards to so I could have everything out at once.
-Lucid Mode is wicked.
-The slumbers really hardly become something you have to deal with, half of them become something good, you unlock other tools to deal with the rest of them both to skip/or to gain rewards easier.
-The deckbuilding gets really good with Prepared Cards that you unlock can set up some really strong combos.
I've now completed 6 dreams in a row without doing an awakening (7th to 13th). And don't see needing to do an awakening anytime soon unless things go wrong somehow. So yeah you are going to keep your progress cards setup which means your deckbuilding pays off.
-The secret scripts narrative gets really really good at specific points. Every dream is so different. I don't have a favourite.
I agree with all the pros :) Well at least the ones I've unlocked, I haven't yet unlocked Lucid Mode :)
The way I feel about this game: ain't nobody got time for that! But more seriously I really like the aesthetics of the game but it would never hit the table.
If it isn't for you it isn't for you :) These giant games are definitely harder to play.
Thanks for that well-balanced report! Still waiting for the language version here, and I hope the manual is not a mess, keeping me from playing. I will check that 4 page guide you have mentioned - thanks for the hint! I'll also keep in mind that skipping some slumbers might be a good idea... :)
Yeah the rules totally shouldn't stop you. The four-page guide will get you up and running, and from there you'll find yourself referencing the rulebook as needed.
Tbh, this and SDSU’s review of Etherfields curbed my enthusiasm for ISS Vanguard. Should we be worried about that game? Will it turn out to be unplayable or just plain boring?
I have a comparison video between the two coming :) Likely during the KS.
@@BoardGameCo I’ll wait for it then. Thanks!
@@BoardGameCo I was about to ask you about when this specific video was going to arrive ;)
@@BoardGameCo what KS 😉
@BoardGameCo I love your videos, but is a comparison video between Etherfields and ISS Vanguard even valid at this stage? You have a prototype of Vanguard, not the shipped game. You’ve seen a part of what AR want to show you. There will be more surprises you are not aware of, and it has months more development before it is committed. I’d hazard a guess you’ve seen more of Etherfields at this stage than Vanguard so please be careful not to inadvertently mislead in your comparisons.
Thanks Alex for the shoutout re the 4 page rules (even though you didn't know my name :P). Anyway I'm planning to edit the in-game tutorial scripts so that it guides you a little bit better (via an app that a few of us are working on as a fan project). Think of it as you will, a video games "patch" (but for a board game).
Oh nice :) let me know when you do, I'll give it a full shout-out. My email is in the description :)
Etherfields put out an update on continuous dream mode, a way to skip slumbers.
www.kickstarter.com/projects/awakenrealms/etherfields-board-game/posts/3045465
Is this the wrong link? Thanks for the review! Can you link the fan made instructions also?
@@AccordingToPlandrew Fixed :) And the instruction link is in the description.
This comment just made me purchase. Thank you!
I pledged pretty much all in but single shipment, so won't see it for a while. Now I am looking forward to it, but wary at the same time. It should be interesting. Thanks for the review
I'd be optimistic...seems the majority of players of the game are enjoying it.
@@BoardGameCo I am sure it will be fun and I like to paint.
Actually I like the slumbers because they give you time to get ready for a hard to beat dream. Set up your progress cards get your shinning gems. If you play the tough guy or specialist you can set your progress cards. And huge spoiler alert read on your own decision.
Some slumber rewards have to do with the mystery path which unlocks you the lucid mode and one more dream.
Yep, I know and agree with the argument....but still don't like them :)
another great video Alex. love your content!
was interested in this but just seems.....too much.
I love This War of Mine & Nemesis, they for me are perfect games. More succinct and managable than Tainted Grail or Etherfields.
Have Arkham Horror LCG that scratches whatever itch Etherfields may instigate.
But we are all so blessed to have so many games to choose from!
Yes! I've gotten rid of far too many good games :(
Interesting too see this game recent videos, it looks like it's so close to perfection I guess it will receive a second kickstarter to address all those, as always great contents
Thanks :) And yes, I do imagine this might get a 2nd KS....almost a shame as that would mean I'm playing the unrefined version....that said I'm enjoying it :)
@@BoardGameCo Hopefully an update pack will be available in the second KS :)
@@devlin8921 Are there many examples of games that got a second Kickstarter to improve the experience?
As always. Thanks for a wonderfully passionate review. The theme didn't pull me in, although the production quality caught my eye. Looking forward to your comparison review with ISS vanguard as it's theme and the prototype overviews have peeked my interest. Curious if the box of miniatures will add to the experience.
Happy to help :) comparison coming next week, likely Wednesday.
I'm clearly a glutton for punishment, since I like the feeling of having to grind and earn or unluck the dream. This hasn't bothered me at all.
Nice :)
11 dreams in and I'm hooked. Playing 2-handed "solo".
Nice :)
Alex later on there is more mitigation with the slumbers. I suggest, you continue the dream and try and different characters too.
I've heard :) I Do plan on continuing and mixing up characters.
After all the reviews I am going to pass on this game. I have too many other great games to play. Thanks for your video and review.
Reasoble :)
Kal - 100% what you said.
Unless you have to give a speech to your graduating class in your underwear then this game is a total failure. I'm going to go ahead and say it fails because they lacked the courage to face down that lion.
I'll admit I have no idea what you're saying other than that the game is a total failure :)
You say you have kept with it and are looking forward to playing it time and time again, yet you showed by showing us the wisdom page, that you are no where near along in your campaign as SUSD was. You were probably still at (when making this video) the point where SUSD was, enjoying the game immensely.
Great review, and you really explained my exact experience with the game. Keep doing what you are doing!
Nice :) And thanks :)
This is a game I'd like one of my friends to buy so I can play once.
But it's really not my kind of game. It would end up sitting in the shelf for years.
Great review as always!
Totally reasonable.
I play Etherfields with 3 people and the game board isn't that bad with that many people. Everyone at the table equally can't see things haha. This wouldn't be much different if we had decided not to use the board though. The board would be hot garbage for solo play though.
Other than that, I have really enjoyed Etherfields and think that most people's critique is just a matter of person taste since I haven't been bothered by what most people have said. Another thing I can agree with is that the rules for the game aren't super clear until you play it for a few dreams. This is evidence by the fact that there is a 3rd party 4 page document to help you get started. I think some of the complexity comes from 2 things: #1 not all rules will make sense when you read about it since you don't have access to those things immediately and #2 the terms for things aren't as clearly delineated as I might have liked. For example, Dreamscape, Dream Gate, Dream World, Slumber Deck, and Slumber Map.
Once you get the hang of things and understand the terms, this game is great. I did the Dreamer Pledge originally since I didn't know what to expect from this game. Now that I do, I've gone back and purchased all of the other gameplay expansions + 5th player.
People have complained about the Creatures of Etherfields being unnecessary, which is surprising since they are a cosmetic upgrade and have no gameplay value. I have personally loved dropping in a physical miniature for the Butcher, but the Butcher token they give you can serve the same purpose if you didn't have the mini.
Tha is for stating your opinion and your reasons. I own Etherfields and I believe I will highly enjoy it when I actually am not working 10+ hours a day. One question I have is what do you think about the storage aspects?
I didn't have a problem with the storage but I also haven't sleeved It could have been better...but it's fine.
@@BoardGameCo Ok, I haven't done more than just play through the intro scenario so I haven't learned how the scenarios will set into the storage aspect. Thanks for the reply
This whole Slumbers aspect.....it seems like any RPG video game--Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Elder Scrolls, heck, even Zelda II--where you travel between points of interest and have random encounters with enemies thrust upon you. Those encounters can be exciting at first but can become a bit mundane or irritating later on. It that what is going on? But in an RPG, at least you are getting some gold or experience from those encounters that will help advance you. Not sure if there are any small benefits provided by playing the Slumbers aspect?
To an extent yes, but also that I find the dreams the fun part, not the combat or running around...so it's just "in the way".
I'm *ALL* in Wave 2 in for this...!! I was a little worried about this game because of some of the polarizing reviews but YOUR review hands down *EXACTLY* what I needed to hear. Not 100% happy about two (2) issues you raised:. 1. Miniatures (enemies/bosses) are not needed, hardly utilized... 2.) Narratives, just read book, I know what you mean, but I'm hopeful that this is just maybe 5% ~15% true if it's more like 40% or more, I'm going to be upset that I spent $$$ on a gigantic mystery/horror/suspense novel... I will tell you that I *ANTICIPATE* re-visiting the dream sequences again and again (replayability) just to ensure *ALL* cards have been reviewed/exhausted, (some cliche inserted here about leaving no stone unturned..) Overall VERY VERY happy for this review and glad to be a patron on Patreon for you!!! Keep this up please!!! :D :D :D
Happy to help :) I would say both those points are valid, but not the end of the world. Given your excitement and degree of issues I'd assume your fine.
I think you should mark your calendar or remember to do a 'return review' where you revisit your initial review after you have more time and play sessions under your belt. It would be interesting to see how your experience changes over time.
I'm fine doing a follow up review once I fully finish the campaign.
I think you said it best, it's about the journey. And, I had to house rule Tained Grail for the same reasons.
Yep, narrative games I'm much more fine with house rules.
thank you for the material. Your feedback is very valuable and it is completely different from SU&SD. You talk about the downsides, but you also talk about the pros and feel like it's just your opinion. The SU&SD review, on the other hand, is (of course in my opinion) a display of total hatred, surly and contempt. I have long since unsubscribed from this channel. I like factual, constructive reviews without unnecessary clowns for me. And above all, with the class and culture that you have and that SU&SD lacks
If you take Quinns at his word, then I am not sure that is what one should have taken away from his review. Sounds like he liked much of the game, but not the sum of its parts. Alex points out many of the same flaws, but has less issues with them. I do wonder if Alex, or anyone really, would play this game, see it and then decide to purchase it. This is the issue with reviews of these types of products.
Didn't find an ounce of hatred or contempt in there. Are you sure you're not just ticked off that they didn't share your opinion?
I think it's perfectly fine to feel comfortable with your personal gaming experience, even if it doesn't align with Quinns & company @ SUSD. I've enjoyed Tapestry, Scythe and Lords of Hellas which are games that ultimately were not recommended. They also lauded Wingspan, which is no doubt a "good game" but the theme (or lack thereof) is a non-starter for me. Negative reviews are useful because it compels me to evaluate what I find enjoyable about a game's structure or execution.
But when Quinn's quasi-dissed Prophecy of Kings? Heresy! 😱
It is hard to find good narrative oriented games - this review makes me want to play it.
SU&SD cheated this game to a level that they could just read the lore - I didn't find their review helpful.
ביקורת מעולה, תודה אלכס
Happy to help :) It's a game I do recommend and do enjoy, as long as people know that it does have flaws. Ignorable flaws, but flaws.
for me, it's hard to find the right groups to play a good narrative oriented game with.
Yes, I feel about SU&SD's review the way I felt about NPI's review of The 7th Continent-if you cheat instead of solving the core puzzles of the game you can of course report that you had a bad time, but I don't think you can call it a complete review.
Thanks for the informative review Alex.
Reading the comments of any review is always an interesting study of bias confirmation. I personally didn't back this, but was close, and I'm glad I didn't based on the reviews (which comforts my bias!). However I'm also glad to hear that the game is really enjoyable with modifications - and the information on this is spreading around so everyone might just enjoy it and, perhaps, lead to the developers releasing an updated rulebook, or 'version 2', for everyone in the future.
I really feel like i got a different box from everyone else...
I absolutely love the slumbers i have an absolutely fantastic time always discovering something new every time.
I currently have completed 13 dreams (plus had to repeat 2 twice and 1 three times, and have done 3 of the return dreams) and i still look forward to flipping over the slumber cards.
I'm curious how I'll feel by the end of the campaign :)
You completely nailed it with this review, and I agree with you 100%. I’ve finished the wave 1 content, and I plan on replaying it with a different character or two.
Appreciate it :)
Your objective review make me give it a shot while the game has its official Chinese version recently! Thanks a lot!
Nice, enjoy it :)
Hi Alex!
On the chat with Marcin you asked him what could be the next AR recieving a second edition... And Martin did not answer straight away... Well... how about Etherfields?
I decided not to back it, and the negative points are legit... Sounds like a great opportunity for a second version, don´t you think?
Regards!
Very possibility...but also the negative pushback does mean it might not do as well as they would like.
I really want to like this game. Love the theme. Wondering if people, more familiar with Awaken Realms, can share a hypothesis for what the retail version will end up costing.
While Etherfields and I.S.S. Vanguard are mechanically very different games, both focus on narration and exploration. Completely subjectively: which experience did you enjoy more - the Vanguard prototype or the core game of Etherfields that you played up to this point in your personally modified way? And if you enjoyed one more - why?
I'll have a full comparison video coming soon :)
House-rule the shit out of it and it is an immensely enjoyable experience, that seems to be the red string that goes through ARs narrative games. I honestly don't like that, because I usually don't want to tailor a game to playability because a publisher didn't test enough to assert that grind is not a fun mechanic, and let's be honest, it is mostly grind and repetition that holds down those games (looking at you, Tainted Grail).
I totally understand and agree....I actually have a full video coming soon about house ruling games, when I'm ok with it, when not and all that. Usually I'm not.
What house rules do you use?
Interesting take, and it's good that you're trying to take a different perspective here. Ultimately, that's what reviews are for, and why your review, the glowing positive ones, and the hard negative ones all have merit. The true value of a game isn't in an average score, but in what a game does for you.
I rather have five reviewers with each differing opinions than five reviewers that all parrot the same opinion to not upset BGG/some arbitrary score average/some community consensus (see Videogames, where some gamers will freak out en masse if a game only gets a 8.9 out of 10).
What I'm taking from your review is that my group should probably try this game again with more houserules. Much like Dark Souls (which I am so very conflicted on), the base game may be deeply flawed, but house rules might help get to the good bits more often and consistent, leading to ultimately more fun. We bounced off hard the first time, and that was almost entirely due to the slumbers, keys and some of the deck buildy aspects.
But everyone also agreed: The actual dreams were really interesting.
Glad you have tried it, I really enjoy the dreams, I'll house rule a bit to get to it.
This the type of game collectors and enthusiasts are going to have to buy just because of the controversy. From people who say, no, we’ve fixed it, they way we play it, it’s now amazing, to yeah, you’ve got to play it just to experience had bad it is.
Lol perhaps :)
Is it that these slumbers are just not that good? Or do people just not like them because it is a "grind", i. e. they just have to actually work for their rewards? ^^ Which makes the bad opinions seem like they are saying "I just want to get the rewards without having to work for them." - No offense! I'm just curious to know if this is more or less true or if there is already a lot you work for even without the slumbers.
It's a grind, they aren't bad. There was a time in my life where I was fine with grinding through things. Nowadays I certainly don't mind a challenge and a struggle, but the idea of repetitive sequencing with no real strategic depth or change in order to get out of reward isn't something that appeals to me.
Anybody else still waiting on there copy.? I was told it won't ship until next wave. Apparently I backed the wrong delivery method. I only ordered the plain base game.
If you only backed 1 wave shipping you'll get it when they ship wave 2 which doesn't yet have a firm date.
Great review!
Do you think the comment about the miniatures will also apply to ISS Vanguard? At first sight the same issue will apply there but I love miniatures :p
My impression based on 8 hours of gameplay is yes. But I could be wrong...that's impression only.
Thanks for the honest opinion 🙂
Tbh, the crappy written rules is by far my biggest pet peeves with games like this. If I pay for an expensive game I expect it to be crystal clear (even if it's complex and take time to learn).
I don't disagree. It's one of the weaknesses of crowdfunding, of setting a timeline and expectations that have to be met, and therefore sometimes compromises on how much quality control should otherwise be in there. Not an excuse... But a reason.
where can I get the 4 pages of rules?
www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/2538979/learn-play-walkthrough
I have not looked at it yet, but it's probably on the bgg website under the files section of the game. I found most of the files I'm looking for there for any game.
You can skip slumbers in the begin… but some of them is interesting to solve with deliverance cards
Yes! They released the new rules.
Etherfields improved for me once I decided to be flexible with slumbers, where for SUSD it collapses once he had to leave the rulebook behind.
I think Etherfields is a glorious core with poor choices scattered around it. I think its a BGG top 50 game if it was just the dreams, so cheat and make it so.
Good review.
100% agreed.
That’s the same way I treat Tainted Grail: if a rule is getting in the way of the fun: I ignore it or change it.
Are you going to rob yourself of fun because you want to be beholden to the rules? Unless you are playing competitively, who cares?
Good even review of the game. I have it on order and look forward to diving into this dream-world. Cheers!
Nice, good review! So I buy only core set, that will be enough for begin right?
Oh absolutely
What's your thoughts on the announcement (in their last update) that they're adding rules to avoid the slumbers?
I like that they're listening to people's feedback
Another good video, though perhaps some of my feelings there is purely because you like the game... which I still haven't managed to get to the table. Space issues as much as time issues, but I still look forward to it. I've noticed recently that I have difficulty recognizing that a game can be flawed, perhaps notably, and yet still be enjoyable and worth having in my collection. As well, that it is okay to change the rules if they're getting in the way of the experience. Especially something like Etherfields, where the narrative IS such a big part of the game, I think it's perfectly okay to do such. Even more if you're playing a solo game. From what I've heard of the review from various sources, I still don't know that I feel like actually watching the SUSD video, but thanks for helping show that it is both not a perfect game, and that it's okay for it not to be a perfect game.
Separate, I do greatly look forward to the rules set that AR is planning to release that removes slumbers, if for no other reason than the campaign sounds awful long even without them, and that's not even counting all the expansion campaigns once wave 2 comes in...
I love how you and Quins basically said the same positive and negative things about this game, but your takeaway was, "Try it! It's really good in spite of all its flaws!" and his was "Avoid this game! You'll thank me!"
Yep. I can't disagree with much that he said....but I think the game is excellent. Ambitious, broad, thinky, haunting.....all good things once you take the flaws out of the way.
I think the key thing Quinns is referring to is the sheer expense. If this was £20 (or whatever) it might be worth a look for how different it is, but most people that don't have 200+ games collections, there are way better games to get for a fraction of the cost of an Awaken Realms game. Which is often a problem with critics reviewing their games, they never tend to factor in the sheer cost of the game, I get that affects people differently but I still wouldn't be too happy paying hundreds for something that was this sloppy and even a fan of the game says to skip entire sections of it
@@seansteel328 £75 for 100 hours seems like a good price. Even if you skip the slumbers, it still seems fair compared to traditional one-and-dones. Of course, I don't think we know anything about retail pricing yet.
@@stephenspackman5573 I think this "£75 for 100 hours is ok" thought is part of the reason behind the poorly designed aspects of the game, the slumbers. They exist to justify the price, rather than being a part of the game that works, and in that they mimic the copypasted aspects of an open world videogame.
Which isn't a charitable comparison. Quinns has a good reason for not recommending the game with that in mind - why suggest people to buy 100 hours for 75 when half of these hours are boring? Paying 50 for 25 great hours is a much better proposition for many people.
That doesn't mean you can't like the game. If it really speaks to you, great! It'd just make more sense to argue by merit rather than quantity of hours.
The game is 250 dollars not 75.i am intrigued but with this price is beyond my budget.if this was 75 i certainly would by this
it's hard to understand why play a deeply flawed game, where you have to cheat to enjoy, when there are so many many games out there and so little time to play them all other than for some they have invested a "lot" on money in this one as so almost need to play it so as not to feel really bad about it?
Na, check out my review of reichbusters. I'm happy to sell games that aren't for me no matter the price.
The thing is that the issues here don't stop me from enjoying the game.
Great video as always, Alex! Let me ask you a question. If you had played this game with someone else, say a friend or Quackalope, for the first 5 dreams or so. Based on everything you had experienced, would you have gone out and purchased this game? Easy to find something you like in something you invested in after all. Objectively speaking, knowing what you know now, would you have sunk the money in? I often have far different responses to games I have invested in, even if they are okay. I went all-in with 7th Continent, loved what I played and then ended up offloading it. I wouldn't have bought the game had I played it prior to buying. Always curious to see if folks would still take the plunger under those circumstances.
Yes, but factor in that my answer is biased by the fact that when I'm done with it...I'll sell it and likely lose nothing...so it's a cheat of an answer. If I was actually out $150 or so, never to see it again...I think I'd pass. I like it, but to me this isn't a keeper....I'll go through the entire thing and then move on.
@@BoardGameCo Nice response and one I will ponder for the next few weeks. I am almost thinking of getting Hel instead, but I run the same risk.
I rarely subscribe, but for your channel I had to.. Great, balanced review mate :)
Thank you!
Alex SUSD proposed a game with 79$ called "Blood on the clocktower". There was good value for money in this game and not in Etherfields?
I suggest you go and see the review.
I like their videos, but I dont take everything they say as factors.
I've watched it....I think SUSD backed away from KS after that one. It's tough living your life publicly...every mistake you ever make can be held against you. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with SUSD on most games, but I don't mind that thy may have been inconsistent once.
@@BoardGameCo no it wasnt incosistent, but basically he just mentioned problems that were already spotted in the forums. Nothing new from his rushed review.
AR is something very delightful.
They didn’t care about what you buying and your financial situation.
They just put it for you.
You want miniatures: There you go
You want playmats: There you go
You want sleeves: There you go
You want more? There you go
You want nothing? It’s your choice, we make good games and we know it. We just offer you the best.
AR is a solid company.
@@BoardGameCo absolutely, Rolling solo community just put Etherfields as #2 solo game of the year just behind JOTL. Whatever Quinn says, I’m in with Etherfieds. 🙂
It's the experience that great and unique that we can ignore the flaws? Or are the dreams just a good experience (that we can find elsewhere).
To me the flaws are ignorable. Not using the board is...weird. But in no way impacted my enjoyment. Ditching the slumbers is the same. There are many flaws I don't like to ignore, but ignoring flaws for things that I can just take out....that's fine with me.
@@BoardGameCo thanks very much for the reply. I am in the midst of cancelling my all in pledge. Will at least keep the core pledge and give it a try. I house rules Arkham LCH and still enjoyed it, even more after the house rule
Alex, thx for your opinion. I don't know how many dreams i am in but i am so hooked and have to play every day (it is always ready to play and stays where i was when i stoped). I play the tough guy and realy does like him but almost never used his action (maybe twice in all 16 days played). My deck is already over 40 cards big (i never go to awakening so it will stay big), 15 items, 9 wisdoms, 1 s key, a lot of nice slumbers, a lot of flaw cards (some are nice too) and i realy like slumbers to rest from sometimes realy strange dreams. I had to do my last dream over 20 times (to get all availible cards out of it and i hate cheating my self so i don't do it ;) ). I like the board but swoped the places for world maptiles and slumber- / dreamtiles. cheers
20 times for a single dream :) You're a madman :)
@@BoardGameCo in this dream as a solo player with only 1 char it was not possible with less goes to get all and everything out of it and i hate to have an 'unsettlet important business'. cheers
Thanks for the review. Definitely not one for me. Your late pledge beckoning will not sway me this time :-)
Your money is safe :)
One of the best movie ever filmed!
Thanks :)
I like the creativity of your adjustments. I *think* I feel better, now, that I didn't get it. I both really liked and did not like the minis (too many Barbie-babes). And the comments about gameplay were both great and disappointing. So, I think I can feel good that I did't buy a game that I'd have to adjust to fit my idea of enjoyment. I look forward to playing with someone else who paid for it. But...i think I made the right choice.
Great review.
it's the Cirque Du Soleil of board games
That's an excellent way of putting it :)
Hey bud I love the game the things I also have a problem with are the board layout I agree it was fine at first then they changed it could of had it modular if they wanted to change it. The rules can be a pain for sure totally agree epically at the start and if you cant play a good bit pretty regularly you will get lost for sure. It is a big set up but we all knew it would based on the amount of cards and how the game runs. But I do like the game its self just these things are a pain but dont take away from my overall enjoyment just adds more time really. Hopefully the app they are now making will help with alot of stuff more so with how to play a game step by step that would be a huge help for alot of people.
To me it is a great game I love it :)
So, it's like reading or listening to, the entire Stephen King Dark Tower series, back to back to back.
Maybe? I only ever read the first one.
@@BoardGameCo I listened to them all. Back to back. A long way to go, and not sure if it was worth it.
I am not as far in, but I had a fun experience with the game so far. The butcher actually entered my dream from the sidelines, but I had a card that let me create a spawnpoint for dream entities, so I let him spawn in a locked toilet, where he stayed for most of the dream. (With the downside of me not being able to explore the toilet myself, but it sure was funny.) I think the fun factor of this game is higher if you play it with other people, they even added cards that let you roleplay.
Hilarious! Poor Butcher! In our game the Butcher never showed up because of a well cut pile of the turncards and some skills that blocks the "morph" never happened lol
One thing I find interesting is that Tapestry was almost universally trashed for being overproduced (and imbalanced, but that's another story), yet Etherfields suffers from the same issue (you said it yourself, the miniatures are absolutely not necessary), yet no one is really complaining about it... I think it's because the game was kickstarted, and miniatures are common in kickstarted boardgames (heck, it's almost a "must" for kickstarted products to have miniatures nowadays!). It inflates the price of the game, but everyone's ok about that? I find it incredibly unfair to complain about that for Tapestry yet be ok with it for kickstarted products. That's not a criticism of your review, it's just a general comment.
I totally hear that....I will say that my complaints about Tapestry don't have much to do with the overproduced aspect though.
Tapestry imho should never have been overhyped as potentially something unique *and* excellent, but rather as a somewhat original light to mid civ-themed preorder eurogame, in the 40-50 usd range, with no minis. Etherfields is a totally different beast, and the minis are de facto an add-on, hence no criticism to the same degree as Tapestry. On top of Nemesis’ success (maybe also TWOM’s) and TG’s KS earned renommée, Etherfields KS campaign was breahtaking and its hype partially but arguably justified by its size.
As long as there are multiple paths to success with each dream then I'm fine with it. If the game devolves to repeating things until you find a singular successful path through the maze then I would either give up or cheat after a while.
I believe most dreams that I've encountered have a single start and end....but the pathways to get there have varied.
Actually further reply....some have definitely had multiple ends too.
I love the theme,but I can't justify the price. Maybe one day I'll get an awaken realms game, but not this one
Totally fair :)
One quick question! If, I get only core set that enough to joy and play?
100% yes.
@@BoardGameCo thank you
Completely agree with your points. The game has many problems, but I'm still very keen to play dream after dream and experience the story.
Yep :)
So in other words, Etherfields is a great game if:
a) You don't use a chunk of the components
b) You download a user-created version of the rules rather than attempt to use the ones that come with the game.
c) You ignore a significant chunk of the rules that make the game tedious.
This is reinforced my view that Awaken Realms as a company is akin to an indie video game developer. They come up with experiences that are quite different and interesting, but they're filled with enough janky edges that you feel like you've got to persevere and will yourself to enjoy the game, rather than simply being able enjoy the game of its own accord.
Given the asking price of Awaken Realm's games, I personally can't justify that amount of money on something I have to make myself enjoy. If others can, that's great. But for me, until they get past the issue of the unwanted cruft that seems to affect their games, I'm going to continue to pass on their campaigns/games.
I agree but would rephrase.
So in other words, Etherfields is a great game if:
a) You don't use the extra board that isn't necessary
b) You download a user-created version of the rules that makes the intro to the game easier than the core rules
c) You ignore a small aspect of the game that makes the game tedious
I don't disagree with your overall point...anyone who wants to skip this because of the cons I listed should do so....but making it sound worse than it is to drive home your point takes away from what is otherwise a reasonable critique.
I would note that AR games are on the average incredibly well rated....they might be an indie game dev, but literally every single one of their games is well loved.
@@BoardGameCo Indeed, it might be an addiction as you said the other day, but I very much prefer the experience of following an AR campaign and getting to know so much of a game while it doesn’t even exist, than just preordering another game from another company which stays aways from ks and does bland orthodox implementations of trusted mechanics; it doesn’t mean i back anything blindly, i stayed away from lockdown because i saw no need for it already having nemesis.. and furthermore, AR started as a 4 (?) - man painting studio a few years ago, and now also does videogames with dozens of staff... kind of reminds of a couple of guys building a computer in a garage...
@@BoardGameCo Sorry, I was engaging in a little bit of hyperbole for humor's sake, but it appears I missed the mark.
That said, based on your review, you thought the board was poorly designed, and you thought the miniatures were unnecessary (at best). Awaken Realms kind of sell themselves on offering a "premium" experience, yet two of the key things that are typically "blinged out" were outright bad and not really adding to the experience. If you're paying for a premium experience with premium components, but those components are not really adding (or in fact making the game more frustrating), then that sounds like a bad deal to me. So while I exaggerate a little, it doesn't really strike me as particularly invalid criticism.
I also think my indie game dev comment is on point. There are many indie game devs that fall into this same bucket - their games are unique and have jank, but are still very well loved by those who fit the appeal of them. I can see the appeal of AR games, but so far, it doesn't seem like they've crafted something that I would say is for me.
I don't understand why people need the opinions of strangers on RUclips. Can anyone think for themselves?
People like opinions, they're a guide in a world overloaded with things. I like opinions too :)
@@BoardGameCo Is this what you repeat in the mirror before recording a video?
@@derfaktotum7768 4x fast. And then I hope Tom Vasel doesn't appear.
best review so far :)
Thanks Robert :)
No matter how good or bad the game is. Why artificially inflating the price of a game by adding obsolete minituares instead of offering the game at a reasonable price...
To be fair they gave it as an optional add on....so it wasn't the biggest deal.
After watching the Shut Up & Sit Down review I was just frustrated because while they made valid points, they clearly didn't understand the game like you do and left a very negative review which this game does not deserve. I am happy you clearly grasped that underlying mystery and abstract interpretation laying under the surface of this game. While not perfect, this game is amazing if you let yourself become immersed in it.
💯 . It felt like they wanted to dislike the game. Stay on brand.
And did you play more Etherfields?
Since this video, a few more time, but then it eventually left.
Quinns's complaint were all things I had heard/read before on forums or other video reviews. But he definitely seemed to have magnified a lot more than others. But hey, people value things differently. I love the idea of playing w/o the board. It's actually pretty genius lol. Thanks again for another grounded, fair and balanced review! And the reminders to viewers to still weigh what they like/dislike!
Btw, I laughed at the "it is what it is" at the end lol.
Happy to help :)
Adds to the dream like vibe with everything free formed
@boargameco : if you had to rate all the awaken realm games that you have played. What would you rate them ?
I generally enjoy the games of theirs that I have played, but they don't break top 50 for me. I haven't played tainted grail, the edge was probably a seven for me, but I'm not a huge fan of skirmish games... Lords of hellus I want to play but haven't yet, etherfields is likely an 8, and iss a higher 8.
@@BoardGameCo Thx !
Great video. Definitely feel that my initial view of this that it would make a better RPG than a board game is on the mark, at least for my tastes. In fact, I'd be tempted to pick it up to just rip ideas off for some of my similar RPG campaigns/games. Invisible Suns really springs to mind as something and I ordered just the miniatures for this game to use in that one a couple of weeks ago.
As a narrative experience I think it's incredible, as a game I think it's pretty good.
This game is better than Tainted Grail (not the story though) and I don’t agree with your view on the intro to the game as it’s easy to grasp but do agree some rules are not explained that well and on BGG there is no doubt a FAQ guide for this. The cards can be too repetitive but I prefer the explore and find system over Tainted Grail.
Good review. It captures my feelings pretty well. Despite it's flaws and barrier to entry, there's still an experience in there that I'm really enjoying. I haven't hit the slumber grind that you and others mention but there's ways to house rule that. It was odd to me that SUSD equated house ruling to cheating, but I guess to each their own.
I think they had more of a problem with cheating death...which I haven't felt the need to do.
Interesting how after 9 minutes of detailing the negatives against 4 mins of the positives (which were hardly listed at all, contrary to the negatives) you highly recommend a game that, and I quote, "you need to keep reminding yourself that you're enjoying". Tricky sell that.
Considering its price, and how many of the basics they mess up according to so many people (board, rulebook, skippable parts, repetitive phases, nearly irrelevant miniatures, and so on), sounds like I am glad I did not back it.
Alex you did a great review and you did your job well, preparing and reading the rules correct.
Most of the negative reviewers, missed rules, played wrong, went godmode....
Quinns even said he didnt see there was text at the back of the cards.....
Rushed review....
I actually found that part funny because the first real dream I forgot about the text on the back too :) I figured it out on the 2nd dream.
@@BoardGameCo lol
To be fair Quinns and Alex basically made the exact same points, both good and bad, but came to opposite conclusions based on whether the positives outweighed the negatives or vice versa, in their opinions.
@@rawbeanuk agreed.
@@rawbeanuk to be fair, Alex prepared better for the rules, he downloaded the proposed pdf and he didnt go in godmode.
Hi! I'll finally receive my core box in the wave-2 and I'd be very much interested in your thoughts now that you got further down the dreams? I've heard the deck-building experience pretty much kicked off about the 10h marks, which is where you were when reviewing the game.
Anyhow, I am very pleased to have seen a more nuanced approach to the review and look forward to see what more content you'll offer us! :)
Yeah, I've struggled to get started with the game. Those few pages from BGG seem like they'll be helpful but I feel like it's a huge task just to understand what cards go where in the box or on the board/table. I guess if they are repetitive and boring then Slumbers are appropriately named.
It's not the worst, but it will take 30-45 minutes to really get started.
IMO slumbers start off boring but get better the longer you play! The first hour or so is little repetitive because you have a really small pool of slumbers but the longer you play the more that deck builds and the more varied your slumber experience gets!
I saw the great reviews for this game on BGG and picked it up. Tom Vasel seemed to really like this game but everyone seems to absolutely despise the slumbers and the rulebook. The rulebook is definitely horrendous but if I recall, the game even encourages you to skip slumbers as long as you aren't afraid of possible negative consequences.
Yep, I think it's worth it but with Issues.
@@BoardGameCo Is the creature's of etherfields even worth holding on to? I've barely been able to play my copy but if the minis never get used by the game I might just sell it to make some money.
@@defiantj975 depends, you will pull them out when they come up, but each one is fairly infrequent. Your call as to whether that's worth it or not.
SUSD moved on because they play 1000 other games too.
I wonder if the slumbers can be optional? I haven't played and didn't back it because I didn't know about it. I'm new to Awaken realms games. Majorly late I know. From what I hear, as this is about dreams, I imagine somethings are designed to be changed by house rules?
Great video Alex. I was looking forward to this all week in anticipation. Really helps with putting my mind at ease with our backing of the game.
Glad I could help :) Solid experience though.
Great video, love your passion! Best review of the game so far in my opinion. Glad I late pledged it!
Much appreciated!
Sounds like by the time I get it (second wave, rookie mistake) they will have a official work around the slumbers if need be. Despite negatives I am still very much looking forward to this !
The core concept and aesthetic are really appealing to me. That being said I am glad I didn't back it. The complex systems and confusing rules does sound like a train wreck. Ditching the board, cheating and breaking the rules to make the game to work would ultimately lead to me not getting this game to the table. However I would be willing to back a revised/second edition if they address the main issues which could be fixed.
After a lot more time with the game, does your verdict still stand?
Yes. Great but messy game.
@@BoardGameCo Follow up question, some people on BGG adjusted their rating downwards after playing for a longer time and having played a lot more dreams. Does it get messier? Or does it at the same time also become greater?
Very tempted to backed but was on the fence because I think this game is a better solo experience, and that's fine but I already have plenty of solo games, I would much prefer to play this game but I don't imagine playing with 4 players, and 5 with expansion, seriously? Also tought the same about the layout of the game board, it feels useless and even has a playmat lol, thanks for the info
Radcliffe 2024.
Not a job I want....no time for games ;)