Mother 3 Comparison (Earthbound 64 vs GBA)
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- motherforever.... - Check this website out if you want to see more screenshots or info about this game.
For a while, I've been really interested in Earthbound 64, and so I've made a side by side comparison between the N64 and GBA version.
I got the GBA sprites from here - starmen.net/mo...
I downloaded the music from here - forum.starmen....
For the final cutscene, I really had to guess where the two screenshots would happen in the GBA version. I guessed the first screenshot was Tazmily, since the town seemed to be even more of an Onett knockoff in the n64 version, and Onett had those tall buildings you couldn't enter, and so does that screenshot. Also, the ground is splitting apart, just like Tazmily in the GBA version. The GBA version doesn't have a scene of New Pork City falling apart like in the n64 version, so I just had to improvise. I can't see them, but apparently, there are those weird tornado things in the background of the New Pork City/Island(?) picture, so I found the equivalent of that scene for the GBA version, which shows the whole island, with those same tornado things in the background. What I'm trying to say is that I tried my best to make this comparison video as accurate as possible.
the porky one isn't accurate, it's an old lady from the village
Lmao
lol they're an old lady? I still feel like it's Porky but you probably know more than me. Are there any other screenshots of her? I want to know who they are now. Anyway, thanks for correcting me
@Echoes wow, that's impressive! I'll pin the original comment.
@@3dski895 just wandering is porky never in the n64 verison?
@@David-cv9sf Not in anything released to the public. They may of made him for the N64 version of the game before it was cancelled. It is very likely that Porky was intended to be in the N64 version of the game since so much of the N64 version matches up with the GBA version.
As much as I would have loved to see the N64 version, I'm happy we got the version we got. Sprite art is timeless.
It just captures the earthbound charm so much more.
@@bagelgod946 Also i think we agree that some of the N64 character designs were horrible, i mean, cmon, lucas's original one was not a main-character-worthy design
@@olavored1733 your not wrong, but they still were being worked on. I doubt they would have looked had it come out on the 64
@@bagelgod946 rightt
@@olavored1733 I don't agree. Look at Flint, he looks badass, Duster has the same design, Wess has a cool blue jacket, Salsa is purple! and Lucas looks fine, I mean a smiling kid with a striped shirt wouldn't have fit the tone and artstyle, Boney looks good in game, just not in that one pre-rendered screenshot. The only main character that looks bad is Kumatora, and they didn't even have as big of a role in that version. the villager models are fine, they still have lots of personality just like in the GBA version.
Mother 3 on the N64 was so close. Itoi said if they only had one more year of development time, it would have been done. It was trashed when the GameCube was first shown off, and Itoi didn't want to take away resources from that.
With all these leaks that's been happening, I feel we're close to finally having this prototype.
It’s a shame they didn’t pull an animal crossing and just release what they had on the GameCube. Yeah it wouldn’t have looked amazing, but if the story was still solid and the game was fun enough I think they could’ve done it
Animal Crossing is a different beast. We don't know what chapters were fully complete and if they even flowed smoothly.
I remember hearing reports that playtesters said the game hard crashed after Chapter 1, so maybe 2 wasn't finished at the time of cancellation.
I dream that someday we have a prototype leak, so that people could hack it and complete the game. I mean, we have the whole Script on Mother 3!!!
@@ArtexandreFuzaro Getting a prototype would be really cool but I feel that the effort would be better spent creating a modern 3D reimagination.
@@TheBestWorstChannelonRUclips Judging by how many stills there are from a lot of chapters, it's clear that they were working on many chapters at once and a lot of them could have been close to being finished. I'm thinking that hard crash could have meant several things, like maybe they were only supposed to test chapter 1, or maybe it was a genuine bug.
I feel like Dr. Andonuts translated really well to 3d 6:04 . I want this game found so bad
2:50 for an N64 game, this screenshot looks shockingly good...
I remember reading about this in some magazine and being so pissed when they canceled this. Thank you for this weird dose of nostalgia.
6:53 "dam I messed up we gotta go bald"
it’s surreal to see scenes that appeared in both versions
ive never seen most of the screenshots shown, thanks a lot!
Sure thing, thanks for watching!
the new images are sourced from Motherforever.net
Zen64 bought footage from the Spaceworld 1997 Nintendo Company Report off EBAY and by pure luck noticed the Earthbound 64 footage that had been lost to time.
@@3dski895 He actually just bought all the 98 Nintendo Company Report Footage from a seller on EBAY and only had a hint of how much stuff was on it. He put it all up on his channel at ZEN64 ruclips.net/channel/UCNKGSWWs55FILEDiMbKSS_A
@@Toxik_Dubz yeah I know, I'm just saying that he most likely knew eb64 footage was on there in some way.
Woah I didn't realise how similar the two games were. It looks like the story and everything had all been figured out well before production of the GBA's Mother 3! Thanks for this. I'm glad we got the pixel style in the end, it's perfect.
More or less! Itoi has mentioned the GBA version toned down a lot of the darker themes, which he considered a good thing.
@@DaVince21I really wonder what the darker themes would’ve been, because the game we got is still dark as shit lmao
The only thing I think is that the ending would have been much more shocking (because of the part where everything is destroyed/
Leder is nightmare fuel in 3D, looks like he'd be in one of those "cursed images with Mother music" videos
fuel mother 3
This video mostly made me sad and depressed , but filled with awe, remembering the GBA game, its unique once-in-a-genre story
Spoiler:
It's a shame the series ended on such a pessimistic note, considering how optimistic 1-2 were. Although it's amazing.
@Bug but I still thinking that MOTHER 3 just destroys the original meaning of the saga: being positive (in one word: Pollyanna).
@15 yr-old psycho what makes you say that?
@@TheSuperPlayer707 Pollyanna isn’t about being optimistic it’s about being naively optimistic, being about to believe in someone or soemthing even tho they done u wrong in the past just cause u ‘believe in second chances and silver linings’
The whole point of Mother3’s ending was that it was left to the players interpretation. If you wanted everyone to be ok and have there lives restored, great, you’re aloud to think that.
I found the entire game felt like it was almost in a dystopia. I think ultimately that’s why Nintendo never localized it, it’s a tragedy with a lot of disturbing imagery and controversial concepts. Earthbound had some, but it kept them subtle. Mother 3 was just outright a cautionary tale.
This is great as it shows a lot of stills from the game towards the end of the games story where the world is ending. I believe it was a lot more completed than I had thought.
Miyamoto from his perspective said it was like 60% done
@@oceandreams7774 to be fair, Iwata has been on record saying miyamoto is a tad bit strict and, when it comes to game development, when he says "60 percent done", the majority of the dev team are left scratching their heads as they thought the project was almost done.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I really like the art direction for the N64 version. The human faces on the polygonal models are weird looking but not uncanny. Other than that I like the darker colors, games on N64 with darker colors have a very cool atmosphere to them, like Clankers Caverns from Banjo Kazooie.
yeah, I agree. N64 games have such an interesting atmosphere that would have fit Mother 3 perfectly. The models in this game don't even look ugly in my opinion.
ye, the only dumb models are Leder and Boney, they looks so wierd lel
I think there is a certain charm to those models as we see them now, but we also don't know how any of the models would have looked like contextually in motion in cutscenes or other in-game events anyhow.
The best look we have of them is from promotional material that wasn't even technically fully developed because by the end of 99 the models were being revamped by the Pokemon Stadium team about some time before the game was ultimately canceled.
Who knows how much more polished they would have looked like should it have come out after all. And I strongly bet that was a major part of the trouble making Mother 3; as they kept delaying it, they had to go back and upgrade the 3D models over and over again to be less behind of the competition, when it would have arrived. They came into making this game in-over their heads.
If anything, I wish it ended up being on N64 because the console was severely lacking in its RPG offerings. I think it would've gotten more attention for this reason, since this certainly wasn't the case with the GBA
@@rossmerchant8435 honestly a part of mother 3's unpopularity was that the DS was announced at around its release and the GBA dying out, as well as the hype being dead after Itoi mentioned EB64s cancellation
necessary and important fact: in the first comparsion, the grass and stone paths got switched.
I’d kill to see a fully realized 3D version of this game
At least we could see Flint's eyes in the N64 build of the game.
6:28
**pushes up glasses**
_Actually,_ the Kumatora put here from Mother 3 N64 is the one that appears after the 10 year time skip. However, the Kumatora from Mother 3 GBA is the one from before the time skip in the GBA version.
just to be clear, i don't actually care lol it's just a little detail i noticed that doesn't really change anything but i figured i'd point it out anyway lol
*shhhhhh*
don't let them know...
It's only a 3 year time skip. Not ten.
@@FutaYuuta yeah but it’s still a time skip
but I don’t really care anyways so it’s not worth arguing over lol
@@FutaYuuta originally, the game was meant to have a ten year skip.
Or to be specific, would have followed the characters across 10 years, at least from what i know
7:19 You can see the Onett sign from EarthBound is underground
which would mean the initial plan was to have Mother 3 take place in at least some of the familiar locations.
What if the whole plot twist that Tazmily people are acctually from Mother 3 N64 world?
...okay maybe their difference in appeatance is enough proof that what i suggested is stupid...
The one glaring flaw of the N64 for me, was its absolute dearth of RPGs. There were a total of FOUR true-blue RPGs for that system that made it to America - Quest 64, Gauntlet Legacy, Paper Mario and Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage, which came out in 2001, which was pretty much the end of the system's lifespan.
Imagine if we had gotten Mother 3 as Earthbound 64...
I want to go back into a timeline where this game released on the n64 😔
I feel you bruddah
@@3dski895 I Agree
If I had a time machine, the first thing I'd do is go back in time to spaceworld '99 and steal one of the EarthBound 64 cartridges when no one was looking.
Because of Kumatora?
Mee too
I know the 3D game was in development hell and we're not seeing what might have been the final version, but judging by these comparison shots, I do think the studio was better suited to translate these characters into their final pixel art rather than 3D models. Maybe things would be different if it got a 3D release nowadays compared to the early days of 3D though.
Leder, Isaac and Boney's redesigns are why I'm grateful for the GBA version as we have it.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I'm really happy that we got the sprite game boy version.
It really suits up better the game, fits with it's predecesors and the designs are by far superior that the 64 ones.
Yeah, I like pixel art more than models...
exactly what i wanted to say!
it would've been fine if it was a standalone game on the N64, but given its significance to the other 2 games, i would've hated to see it only on the N64
I also like the pixel art better, though I would still love to have both
I’ll always preach that the N64 version being cancelled was a blessing in disguise.
The pixel sprites stays true to Earthbound, but the N64 models look cursed, with the exception of Flint which he looks closer to his Gameboy Advance counterpart.
In an alternate universe where the N64DD didn’t flop; We got Earthbound 64/Mother 3 on N64.
super mario 64 2 too
People keep saying they are glad we got the gba version because of graphics, but what about all the missing story stuff we never got, like the battle system, or certain characters playing bigger roles or somethings having more reason or depth to it, or things taken completely out, like the kraken and other things
Also i honestly prefer the n64 look of the game and adore Lucas’s n64 design
Yeah and plus the 64 version was in its beta version so it would have looked at lot better if it came out
it's amazing to me just how much stuff stayed the same, story-wise, and even visually. i'm so unbelievably happy with the mother 3 we got, but i'd love to play an old copy of earthbound 64 someday, just to see how it compares. while the models are a little uncanny, and i think the sprites work way better tonally, they are very charming.
Gosh, the N64 version was closer to completion than I thought! I didn’t realize that almost all of the events from the GBA version were in here, cause the side by side differences weren’t that different at all.
Thanks for sharing glad you found more footage for the cancel Mother 64.
2:00 RIP Kleen 97 Duster, you will be missed
Too bad we'll never know how Porky would have looked like on the N64 version. I also think the Ultimate Chimera would have looked much more grimier and scary
The guy that designed the chimeras for the N64 version actually doesn't even remember the ultimate chimera existing
I do agree though, if it was in eb64 it'd be terrifying
To be honest while I'm sure it would have been pretty great to have a Mother game on N64, I'm glad Mother 3 is on GBA. It's timeless unlike this game that was being developed that would've already been showing it's age immediately.
7:24 MOTHER2のフォーサイドじゃない？
にしても、こんな画像どこから見つけたんだ、、、凄い‼️
I see a sign saying Onett, so it's not Fourside
Wow. They really had a good chunk of the game ready to go. They even had the ending ready.
Imagine how cool watching an N64 version of the Needle Pulling.
I'm glad they made Mother 3 for the GBA, Because the artstyle is wierd on the 64 version. They went for a more detailed style instead of the cartoonish artsyle.
It looks weird at first, but I remember reading that the 64 version is the type of style they've wanted since the beginning. It's just because of technical limitations that they had to use simple sprites for the first two games, but for the 64 they were finally able to adapt Mother 1's clay model designs into the actual game. Since Mother 3 GBA solidified the series style, the 64 designs do look weird, but they are most likely the closest to the true Mother art style.
@@3dski895 wasn't that actually talking about the felt designs for the gamecube?
Lucas from Earthbound 64 was going to be in Melee if he did He wasn't going to be fat and short like ness and his eyes would not be Black dots and he would have probably had a different voice actor So after that in Super Smash bros ultimate Lucas and ness would be in super Smash bros ultimate at the same time Since that game brought back every character Lucas and ness would look like characters from 2 different Series.
why Lucas and cláus have the same design but change the color hair
had this came out on n64 it wouldve been the oot killer
Doubt it
doubt it
I say the same thing
Even though the N64 visuals don't hold up as well as the pixel art...I still would've loved for that version to have come out. And it's amazing how many of the those shots line up.
This should've been in the leaks. A ROM or anything.
Oh my god. I love MOTHER 3 on GBA, but god damn, imagine how powerful the death reveal scene would've been with Flint in 3D. You can see his face. It's terrible, it's horrifying, it's super sad.
It looks corny dude. He looks like he's trying to swat an annoying bug out of the air, not like he just found out his wife died
@@youngkappakhan I mean, yeah. It is corny. That doesn't really matter for me.
It is a kids' game, so I'm willing to excuse a few inaccuracies if it gets its point across either way.
I'm also not gonna die on the hill of criticising an N64 game for its graphics, cause like... obviously it looks like shit. It's an N64 game.
@@youngkappakhanwhich version
Seeing these scenes from this perspective is honestly so cool.
Thank you so much for this video! That was super interesting and cool to see 😊
Maybe someday a team can make Earthbound 64 using Mother 3 and all the screens and videos of EB64 we have...
or just fucking leak it
Honestly it makes me wana learn to make video games and make eb64 r
Theres a fan remake only got tazmilly and the woods hes working on the dessert part
Didn't they confirm at 2:53 that was actually his Swing skill in an interview?
Didn't know they had that much work done.
This game looked really good for an N64 game
Yeah because it was supposed to be launched on the Nintendo 64DD (pretty sure ya know)
Please don't get me wrong, I think these prototype assets are absolutely amazing, but I'm glad we had the product we got instead
Looking at this, I would totally want a mother game in 3D, sucks it never came out. It would be really cool to see some of these cutscenes and play out in 3D like the boney one. At least they changed the Isaac design lol.
Heh Dr. Andonuts is the most accurate
Thanks for the video. I always wanted a comparison. But I noticed you haven’t shown Isaacs newer model from EB64.
Issac has a newer model?
@@3dski895 It is not been verified yet but I saw someone sharing it. twitter.com/bfalcon200/status/1397347725100847110?s=21
@@amdon6176 woah, it's literally Issacs body but with a different head and skin tone. Even though it's not verified, I think I believe it. Thanks for sharing, that's pretty interesting.
This was super interesting. But when N64 Kumatora came up I was like 😳
7:16 The sign says Onett and is even designed like the original Mother 2 graphic.
That's really weird. Maybe Mother 2 played a part in the story back then.
I guess it was planned to show what's left of Eggland in a chapter I also remember that in an ad there was ness and it seemed like she was a playable character
@@enderclasscraft6411 he
I like how Claus is just Ness in 1996.
ness or ninten or whatever
When I'm trying to imagine what mother 64 could be it always wents like an Animal crossing, but with battles
They switched the grass & cobble around for the first one.
It's honestly awesome to have learned what Nichol, Richie, Thomas, and others looked like back on the N64. As someone who is a big fan of the Tazmily Village residents, i hope we're able to learn more about which residents are which. I'm super curious about how my favorite residents looked back on the N64, if they even did exist. Hopefully people are able to find more info to show more beta designs for various residents.
i think the wildest change among a handful that didn’t make it to the end is that the hippie from previous games was supposed to be one of them
@@jess648 Indeed. IIRC, there was also that kid that won a contest to be in EB64, but never made it to Mother 3. Wonder where he is today?
@@WiiMusicBooster that’s pretty sad it didn’t work out
@@jess648 Yeah… There’s also an NPC by the name of Mr. Chemli. He was mentioned in a Japanese article about EB64, but I’m not sure if we know what he looks like exactly.
I didn't know there were so many screenshots avaliable, cool
6:32
Kumatora was originally gonna be...... A lewd looking character ?
Yes, I'm glad they changed Kumatora's design, the N64 looks like the Rouge of Mother 3.
So, even if it wasn't porky the one in this video, he was already in the N64 version (because some of the game planners in a interview said that Porky was there with a possible different design), I'd love to see what did they do in the Porky Bots battle, considering that their battle theme was 8 bit-styled.
Maybe we are getting closer to this prototype... The same happened with the Sonic 3 prototype which was only viewed in magazines... And it got unearthed! So, this has to be somewhere.
Flint looks *good* on the beta. His anger cutscene gives me real Quake vibes! I wonder how he would've looked hatless... Still bald, I'm assuming. Heh.
it’s cool how the broad strokes of Chapter 1/2 and parts of 3 and even further beyond seemed to already be there though it’s hard to tell how much of this was just script drafts and mockup renders
Imagine if Earthbound 64 was the version we ended up with rather than the Mother 3 we ended up getting.
something I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned before is that if Earthbound 64 came out, there's a good chance we could've gotten an Earthbound 64 remake on the 3DS like they did with lots of their other N64 games.
@@3dski895 OMG you're right! I've never thought about that!
I think the N64 looks better i would love to play this game
Hard to believe Mother 3 was planned for the Nintendo 64 but was downgraded to the Gameboy Advance. I never would have thought if I haven't stumbled upon the original 64 trailer
P.S. What's the song at 5:19?
Why does everyone look dehydrated?
..... huh?
If there is ever a remake or release of Mother 3 also for western audiences, I hope it includes the ROM of the latest build of the Nintendo 64 version as a bonus or Easter Egg.
Whats puzzles me is the fact that pretty much the entire game was practicallt finished, i believe Itoi even said once that the game was playable from start to finish although debug mode was needed as sometimes the game would crash. So this must mean that somewhere out there, there still is a copy of that mostly playable version
when they started the gba version the people working at hal were given the 64 copy to play
The guy said he played up to the end of chapter 1 before it crashed and that he probably missed out on the later stuff cause he saw the screenshots here and noticed there was alot more to it
4:40 The 3D render of Salsa being electrocuted is more unsettling than the 2D render, in my opinion.
bc it’s played up for laughs in the released game despite the blatant animal abuse. like it’s meant to be serious but not that serious
This feels like there was zero compromises by translating from 3D to 2D
If Mother 64 happened it could have been a start to an evolution to a modern day EarthBound.
I hope that someday the N64 version gets leaked, I've heard that the game wasnt too far off from completion so if that ever happened fans could possibly rebuild the game and finish a version of an amazing game that never saw the light of day
ngl the only design I actually enjoyed in the N64 version as much as the gba version was Flint. Also is it just me or does it seem like he was intended to stay a main party member in the N64 version?? If you take a look at the scene in 6:08 the N64 version looks like it has Flint, Lucas, Duster and Boney rather than Kumatora.
Wess was a playable character to thata why chapter 4 is so hard.
0:31 GUY BIG LUCKY 😏😏
i thought this game was just an early prototype with barely a few screenshots shown in magazine.. but no.. it feels like the game was almost pretty much done! thats crazy! ok.. i think it looks like shit compared to some other n64 game lol but its awesome to see all that! great job doing this video! o/
according to the devs it was about 60% completed before being cancelled
I might be in the minority here, but I’m kinda glad the game didn’t come out on the n64. The pixel art just complements the rest of the game’s tone so well, and it looks great.
At this point, I'm glad that the N64 version was never finished. It was going to be a "product of its time", where it would be 3D because that was practically the mandatory trend for consoles of that generation. Sure, we got a few 2D games anyway and the PS1 mostly defied said trend itself, but the wait wasn't that long in the end, and it ended sticking with the traditional design from its past 2 titles.
Let’s keep our heads up, because we have tiny possibility of there to be a new mother game on the switch
Osohoe castle in the N64 version gives me pyramid vibes, I wonder if Scaraba was supposed to return originally?
It’s crazy to see how late in to development they were in.
I'm gonna be the voice of dissent, I am extremely nostalgic for n64/ps1 era terrible 3d models and stuff so I wish this version did exist. Especially since the good ol' 64 had barely any good rpgs for it. I love Mother 3 as is but I really hope a prototype comes out/I wish back then it was easier to do 3d and 2d versions like Dragon Quest 11.
I don't knwk why this is so adictive, same for Ura Zelda, Banjo Threeie, Mother 3, Donkey Kong Racing, Dinosaur Planet (Star Fox Adventure) and more games that never came to life, I wish we get full game just like Dinosaur Planet in every game I mentioned.
Where did all these screenshots come from, I had no idea so many existed
WAIT A FUCKING SECOND, DOES THAT SIGN SAY "ONETT"!?!?
8:17 NAHHHHH 💀
Wow! Mother 3 for nintendo 64 if it had been released at the time, it could have faced you with final fantasy 7!
perdona mi ignorancia, pero me puedes explicar porque decidieron hacer el juego en gba? se ve que en nintendo 64 el proyecto estaba muy avanzado.
Creo que era por muchos factores, al ser un juego RPG tenía muchas complicaciones para ser plasmado en la N64, la historia terminó siendo demasiado compleja para lograr entenderla en la consola, temían que los controles fueran demasiado confusos para los jugadores, tenían pensado plasmar 12 capítulos con cada protagonista, esto según iba a dar una duración de 60 horas de juego para completarlo, eso y añadiendole las malas decisiones financieras, y la poca experiencia de los desarrolladores con los juegos 3D terminaron cancelando la entrega.
Cuantos cambios y parecidos. Esa version de Kumatora si que se ve crecida jeje
In the comparison where the world is ending in the N64 version it had the Onett sign in it. I don't know if this was explained or not since I haven't actively looked for infomation but still whattttttt?
Also N64 Issac is absolutely beautiful.
I confused over that Isaac part... XD
They would’ve gotten sued by Jim Henson if they went with the original save frog design
Were they going for a more wild west-y type vibe with Earthbound 64?
Yeah, the earlier parts of the game were based off the wild west, and after the time skip it was gonna have a more retro suburban sci-fi design to everything. There were even mock 50's style ads for things like the pork bean and the Honlele resort when they were promoting the game
Wasn't this game going to be released in the west originally?
It was
as much as it sucks mother 3 on the n64 didnt happen, at least we got a cool looking kumatora on the gba instead of whatever THAT. is
she'd probably have a very different personality too
She looks like she is from a r rated movie
So technically it’s a complete game which was never released at all and then moved to the GBA. Interesting stuff.
7:16 They reached the ending??? Earthbound 64 development was more finished than I expected...
I'm thankful Mother 3 was delayed to GBA. The graphics have aged way better with pixle style.
POTENTIAL SPOILERS: Wow I didn't realise they got as far as programming some of the final cutscenes on the N64 - just how far along were they with this version? Really hope that this lost version of Mother 3 gets leaked & uploaded some time in the future!
Old 64 Claus model is literally Ness lol
I always found it strange that they didn't just use the traditional Mother artstyle for EarthBound 64 like what they went with for the GBA version. Seems like they would have went with a look similar to how Ness looked in Smash 64. This game would have been so good if it were released, I definitely would have played it if it did release.
I did not realize that Earthbound 64 was turned into Mother 3 until yesterday, like I’ve known about both for a long time, but I never knew that.
Also, I don’t see why they couldn’t have made it pixel art on the n64, like the main reason earthbound 64 never released is because the 64dd failed, which was needed because of how big the game was.
yeah Mother 3 is basically a GBA port of an n64 game, I mean the developers literally had a room with an n64 hooked up and they would play Earthbound 64 so they knew how to transfer everything accurately into a smaller console.
Another fun fact: The Mother 3 soundtrack is almost identical to Earthbound 64's, the only major difference being they had to downscale the quality for it to fit on the GBA. Most mother 3 songs were made with the N64 designs and graphics in mind.
Lucas and claus n64 models tho 😳
Damn, they wanted to make Kumatora extra thicc!