His tools are much better, but his movement was heavily nerfed (his initial dash is awful despite having the 2nd-highest run speed) which really cripples his ability to play bait-and-punish and deal w disjoints & projectiles, and his frame data isn't good enough to play rushdown like Fox. His advantage is awkward to use fully, while his disadvantage state is really bad (like it is in every game), so he's stuck in a weird middle-ground where he loses a ton of matchups that used to be even. If his mobility is (hopefully) tweaked, he'd be a perfectly balanced character imo since his risk and reward would be even. Fatality's amazing so he can still make Falcon look top tier despite the flaws, but even he's struggling in certain MUs that really hurt the character's viability.
Quinn Dang Idk I think he’s still really solid, he just plays a little differently from smash 4. Same with characters like Corrin and diddy, I think they’re still really good but just play a little differently.
@@ynsmdd8678 Because Falcon isn't good. His recovery is bad like in every game, his up tilt is useless, his frame data is meh, his dash speed is too slow, Raptor Boost needs buffs too... He's not better than mid tier. You can play very well with him and lose to average players because he can't punish that well and he gets punished himself very easily for almost everything.
How can fatality get 3-4 more hits off of one down throw? He's doing strings of neutral airs, u-airs, etc. When I downthrow someone they just bounce and DI away, jump, or airdodge before I can land my follow up. What am I doing wrong?
If anything, he didn't take full advantage of Link's offstage game when Falcon was narrowing his recovery options by going low. There were many times he could've Bair'd and Fair'd Falcon's Up B.
It mostly stems from his abysmal neutral state, equally awful disadvantage state, and underwhelming advantage state. When falcon's losing, he's losing *hard*. He's a tall, lanky, easy to juggle hulk of a man with really really bad landing options. A hit on Falcon can easily net him 30-80% off a single mistake, and even if you finish the combo, his lack of landing options won't prevent you from simply starting another combo, or covering his descent with a dash attack. When in neutral, Falcon has to rely on Side B, F-Tilt, D-tilt, dash jab, dash grab, N-air, and Attack Canceled RAR B-air to break out of neutral. Which is sad because every option Falcon has in neutral is also unsafe except for extremely precise dash jab spacing, and drifting AC RAR B-airs. Top that with, when trading, Falcon's neutral kit extends his hurtbox, if two hits are about to collide, Falcon will most likely lose due to most of his neutral kit having low % damage and knockback to begin with. His Advantage state is also pretty meh. Like its there, you can punish, but its pretty underwhelming. A lot of Falcon's neutral moves don't actually have true combos and instead can potentially force many reactions. This makes Falcon extremely read heavy for even light punishes, and has his heavier punishes requiring some PHAT reads (see 2:42, and Fatality still misses). At that point of read requirement, the damage seems underwhelming when for similar options you could run Ganon, and have even more option coverage as well as more raw knockback and % gain. If I were to sum Ultimate Falcon up, it'd be like if Smash 4 Roy were put into Melee. He's definitely a functioning character, but lacks many of the fundamentals that make other characters as prevalent as they are. I could argue Falcon is probably bottom eight. Fatality has said before to really dive into Falcon in previous games, you had to solo main him as other characters held him back, yet Falcon has such poor matchups Fatality ended up picking up Link and Ganon.
Liddykins Eh. He’s not smash 4 falcon though. His punishes aren’t bad at all where he can do consecutive strings well enough. He’s just not a beginner character. Falcon always has struggled in neutral by sheer design of hit kit, hence the one area where he ought to be buffed slightly is his initial dash speed. Ultimate’s meta is evolving towards close in game pressure and edgegaurding, and Falcon has enough tools to set himself up into decent edgeguarding scenarios to finish off stocks with nair, which replaces his uair. Not to discredit your points though - I do think you describe the whole of his disadvantage state and how as a whole it can be a blatant blind spot for unaware players. His recovery is fairly average, all things considered with what he can do to mitigate being edgegaurded. Most of the time Falcon ought to be using ariel drift immediately after jumps to space and apply pressure to his ariels from on stage, the same way Fatality uses drifting to recover fairly well and consistently. If a Falcon plays as if their game plan is to use nonexistent dash-cancelled momentum with immediate ariels out of jump, they’ll struggle to land any hits. If a Falcon player plays with a Smash 4 mindset for the character, his uair strings won’t be enough to adequately carry him through a match nor his grab game to punish whiffs. Falcon in Ultimate has to foxtrot into mind gamed spaced tilts and jabs to assert some stage control; along with doing shorthop glides into fast fall ariels at peak of jump to actually lands ariels, to space, and to take advantage of his low ariel landing lag; and grab/dash grab to follow up second hit nairs if not jabs. He has some unorthodox ways of getting in to start advantage, where his slightly marred maneuverability still enables him to get in and start things in a relatively safe fashion.
People are stupid, all they do is analyze potential instead of actualizing potential. If Fatality wasn’t here people would be even more convinced that Falcon “sucks” ... fodder mentality all over
@@kevziro Even Fatality has acknowledged in his current meta state Falcon sucks, and the falcon discord is painfully aware falcon struggles to net kills due to the requirement of his meticulous setups. He has no safe options period unless you condition your opponent to shield *before you approach*, and Falcon has none of the toolset to do that. Looking good doesn't automatically make a character good. This isn't fodder mentality, if anything you come off as in denial. Its fine to like the character but its important to do self reflection and realize his strengths and weaknesses, and falcon's strength is hype but his weakness is everything else. Also what does "analyzing potential" vs "actualizing potential" even mean??
Liddykins One thing I do think is true about Falcon is that probably and frankly he feels way too technical to play in order to be at least competent in most matchups. A person could pick up Cloud and not have that same initial struggle for handling. You really do have to space properly and accordingly and use stage to your advantage through speed, all to maintain a good pace in the neutral game. It’s like having Fox’s struggles in melee where people will easily know how to call you out where caught in disadvantage, so Falcon has to turn his glaring weaknesses into a chase. Then again I’m coming from wifi experiences here, a little bit more than half of which has had good solid connections fortunately. I don’t think Falcon is so horrible and so glaringly flawed as say Ridley (I wish that character was better too). He feels top mid, or maybe low high tier if he were to be really utilized as he is at the moment.
It's not about how a character is good or bad, it's about how you use them! Low tier characters can be high tier. It all depends on how well you train them. Ha, I sound like a Pokemon trainer. But you guys know what I mean :P
I cant believe people still fall for the skilled roy meme True to an extent and maybe even true for a jaded low-mid level player who goes 0-2 at locals to an Olimar he refuses to learn the MU for, but not true for high level play, especially in a developed Meta
if falcon got a slight buff in the following months i would be pretty happy
Same
Lol well damn you must be ecstatic
Fatality gang rise up
I love Link vs Cap Falcon match ups.
They are the best to watch and play
i love the volatility of this match up. i feel like they both have played each other often
That ending...
That Victory felt so good!
7 minute fatality video i already know what happends
7 minute video
I wonder who will win
Falcon still looks great. Idk why people are saying he’s bad now.
His tools are much better, but his movement was heavily nerfed (his initial dash is awful despite having the 2nd-highest run speed) which really cripples his ability to play bait-and-punish and deal w disjoints & projectiles, and his frame data isn't good enough to play rushdown like Fox. His advantage is awkward to use fully, while his disadvantage state is really bad (like it is in every game), so he's stuck in a weird middle-ground where he loses a ton of matchups that used to be even. If his mobility is (hopefully) tweaked, he'd be a perfectly balanced character imo since his risk and reward would be even.
Fatality's amazing so he can still make Falcon look top tier despite the flaws, but even he's struggling in certain MUs that really hurt the character's viability.
Quinn Dang Idk I think he’s still really solid, he just plays a little differently from smash 4. Same with characters like Corrin and diddy, I think they’re still really good but just play a little differently.
@Quinn Dang They should add the double jump recovery with down b from melee. In melee if you falcon kick in the air, you get your double jump back.
Falcon is bad. Mid tier at best. Those who think otherwise are just stubborn smh. Even Fatality says that he's not good 😂
@@ynsmdd8678 Because Falcon isn't good. His recovery is bad like in every game, his up tilt is useless, his frame data is meh, his dash speed is too slow, Raptor Boost needs buffs too... He's not better than mid tier. You can play very well with him and lose to average players because he can't punish that well and he gets punished himself very easily for almost everything.
Fatality no sponsor again?
Sign this mans
Seijen he’s sponsored already
@@devenp.5508 by who, he is never tagged in any matches
Por n H ub
Seijen ESE | Fatality 🤙🏼
Why this announcer sound like Kermit the Frog boi
0:24 to 0:37 the power of 69 LOL
6:46 yeah you gotta dodge those
Holy fuck, first set, last stocks almost made me yell in the library.
How can fatality get 3-4 more hits off of one down throw? He's doing strings of neutral airs, u-airs, etc. When I downthrow someone they just bounce and DI away, jump, or airdodge before I can land my follow up. What am I doing wrong?
this opponent doesn’t know (or at least from this video) how to air dodge lol
Capitan Falcon sin nada de poderes proyectiles y magia. Lo hace el persona mas genial de todos
I've played rin before at a monthly, great link and a nice guy
that link didn't use the bomb enough. he put it out there, but it was more of an empty threat
He was definitely using it but he doesn't have the space or time to be pulling it out.
Falcon can confirm super easy off bomb pull if he's close.
@@cobalt2220 lol yeah, I get that now. 2 months does a lot. Pros and cons man
@@jamesburnett4443 It's funny how easily you can rob Link of his options if you're just in his face like Sekiro
If anything, he didn't take full advantage of Link's offstage game when Falcon was narrowing his recovery options by going low. There were many times he could've Bair'd and Fair'd Falcon's Up B.
2:39 footstool grants you invincibility since when?
up b has more verticality than It did than 4
I love you fatality
Normal people would change main despite the nerfs but Fatality stills loyal with Captain Falcon Lol Captain falcon only has a chance at 200%
GreatstarO9 he is playing cpt Falcon on pure power of will and still does well, he had my respect
Me too. Not as good as he is, but slowly it comes: D
Banana guard voice!
Man people really think falcon is that bad
It mostly stems from his abysmal neutral state, equally awful disadvantage state, and underwhelming advantage state.
When falcon's losing, he's losing *hard*. He's a tall, lanky, easy to juggle hulk of a man with really really bad landing options. A hit on Falcon can easily net him 30-80% off a single mistake, and even if you finish the combo, his lack of landing options won't prevent you from simply starting another combo, or covering his descent with a dash attack.
When in neutral, Falcon has to rely on Side B, F-Tilt, D-tilt, dash jab, dash grab, N-air, and Attack Canceled RAR B-air to break out of neutral. Which is sad because every option Falcon has in neutral is also unsafe except for extremely precise dash jab spacing, and drifting AC RAR B-airs. Top that with, when trading, Falcon's neutral kit extends his hurtbox, if two hits are about to collide, Falcon will most likely lose due to most of his neutral kit having low % damage and knockback to begin with.
His Advantage state is also pretty meh. Like its there, you can punish, but its pretty underwhelming. A lot of Falcon's neutral moves don't actually have true combos and instead can potentially force many reactions. This makes Falcon extremely read heavy for even light punishes, and has his heavier punishes requiring some PHAT reads (see 2:42, and Fatality still misses). At that point of read requirement, the damage seems underwhelming when for similar options you could run Ganon, and have even more option coverage as well as more raw knockback and % gain.
If I were to sum Ultimate Falcon up, it'd be like if Smash 4 Roy were put into Melee. He's definitely a functioning character, but lacks many of the fundamentals that make other characters as prevalent as they are. I could argue Falcon is probably bottom eight. Fatality has said before to really dive into Falcon in previous games, you had to solo main him as other characters held him back, yet Falcon has such poor matchups Fatality ended up picking up Link and Ganon.
Liddykins Eh. He’s not smash 4 falcon though. His punishes aren’t bad at all where he can do consecutive strings well enough. He’s just not a beginner character.
Falcon always has struggled in neutral
by sheer design of hit kit, hence the one area where he ought to be buffed slightly is his initial dash speed. Ultimate’s meta is evolving towards close in game pressure and edgegaurding, and Falcon has enough tools to set himself up into decent edgeguarding scenarios to finish off stocks with nair, which replaces his uair.
Not to discredit your points though - I do think you describe the whole of his disadvantage state and how as a whole it can be a blatant blind spot for unaware players.
His recovery is fairly average, all things considered with what he can do to mitigate being edgegaurded. Most of the time Falcon ought to be using ariel drift immediately after jumps to space and apply pressure to his ariels from on stage, the same way Fatality uses drifting to recover fairly well and consistently. If a Falcon plays as if their game plan is to use nonexistent dash-cancelled momentum with immediate ariels out of jump, they’ll struggle to land any hits. If a Falcon player plays with a Smash 4 mindset for the character, his uair strings won’t be enough to adequately carry him through a match nor his grab game to punish whiffs.
Falcon in Ultimate has to foxtrot into mind gamed spaced tilts and jabs to assert some stage control; along with doing shorthop glides into fast fall ariels at peak of jump to actually lands ariels, to space, and to take advantage of his low ariel landing lag; and grab/dash grab to follow up second hit nairs if not jabs. He has some unorthodox ways of getting in to start advantage, where his slightly marred maneuverability still enables him to get in and start things in a relatively safe fashion.
People are stupid, all they do is analyze potential instead of actualizing potential. If Fatality wasn’t here people would be even more convinced that Falcon “sucks” ... fodder mentality all over
@@kevziro Even Fatality has acknowledged in his current meta state Falcon sucks, and the falcon discord is painfully aware falcon struggles to net kills due to the requirement of his meticulous setups.
He has no safe options period unless you condition your opponent to shield *before you approach*, and Falcon has none of the toolset to do that.
Looking good doesn't automatically make a character good. This isn't fodder mentality, if anything you come off as in denial. Its fine to like the character but its important to do self reflection and realize his strengths and weaknesses, and falcon's strength is hype but his weakness is everything else. Also what does "analyzing potential" vs "actualizing potential" even mean??
Liddykins One thing I do think is true about Falcon is that probably and frankly he feels way too technical to play in order to be at least competent in most matchups. A person could pick up Cloud and not have that same initial struggle for handling. You really do have to space properly and accordingly and use stage to your advantage through speed, all to maintain a good pace in the neutral game. It’s like having Fox’s struggles in melee where people will easily know how to call you out where caught in disadvantage, so Falcon has to turn his glaring weaknesses into a chase.
Then again I’m coming from wifi experiences here, a little bit more than half of which has had good solid connections fortunately.
I don’t think Falcon is so horrible and so glaringly flawed as say Ridley (I wish that character was better too). He feels top mid, or maybe low high tier if he were to be really utilized as he is at the moment.
Captain Falcón wins ✌🔥.
Yyeesss
yeah link is not good at that match up my guy.Nice try.
It's not about how a character is good or bad, it's about how you use them!
Low tier characters can be high tier. It all depends on how well you train them.
Ha, I sound like a Pokemon trainer. But you guys know what I mean :P
you are correct, but only to a certain extent. some characters just have more potential than others at the end of the day unfortunately
Magikarp can be as good as Mewtwo, its about how you use them.
I cant believe people still fall for the skilled roy meme
True to an extent and maybe even true for a jaded low-mid level player who goes 0-2 at locals to an Olimar he refuses to learn the MU for, but not true for high level play, especially in a developed Meta
Fatality gang rise up