Precision motion control: ODrive Servo? Trinamic Stepper? Chinese Hybrid?

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  • Опубликовано: 9 апр 2018
  • Blue Hybrid: www.banggood.com/custlink/DDm...
    ODrive: odriverobotics.com/#odrive
    Bench PSU: www.welectron.com/Siglent-SPD...
    Patreon: / marcoreps
    In this video I want to find the best motion control system for my new CNC machine. I have been collecting candidates in the past months and now it's time to compare them: A Chinese hybrid stepper w/ encoder, a new Trinamic IC called TMC5160 and an open source hardware BLDC servo driver called ODrive.
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Комментарии • 381

  • @aarondcmedia9585
    @aarondcmedia9585 6 лет назад +183

    Stepper monsters. Dancing Pepe. Overheat shrink. Concerned kermit (I am sure I missed even more).
    You have outdone yourself this time, simply outstanding. Chapeau!
    I fully encourage the option of "why not all of them" when presented with multiple choices of CNC projects, look forward to see their construction.

    • @SuperLuckyLad
      @SuperLuckyLad 6 лет назад +7

      Laser engraved oscilloscope screen?...lol

    • @dimitar4y
      @dimitar4y 5 лет назад

      Who's that pokemon!?

    • @nickstanley5064
      @nickstanley5064 5 лет назад +1

      Alucard Pawpad, it's Pikachu!!!

  • @AppliedScience
    @AppliedScience 6 лет назад +239

    Good stuff! You may be interested in the Clearpath servo motors with integrated controller from Teknic.

    • @reps
      @reps  6 лет назад +49

      Yes, I've seen that in your Bullet Time video, very cool but very pricey :L

    • @gamerpaddy
      @gamerpaddy 6 лет назад +11

      how about Mechaduino? can be attached to any stepper that has its shaft visible on the backside to put a small diametrically polarized magnet on it. also opensource.
      or VESC which is opensource too, made for up to 50v 240A brushless motors and supports hall/encoder feedback.

    • @extraace
      @extraace 6 лет назад +5

      The thing has put me away from clearpath is lack of encoder outputs. I know they're meant to be direct stepper replacements but then you might as well just keep the steppers. I have a big (4500)kg mill I switched to linuxcnc. Was considering clearpath for the 4th/5th axis, but you get more for the money with DMM servos.

    • @Jay0neDE
      @Jay0neDE 6 лет назад +10

      whoa nerd royalty in the house. greetings Ben.

    • @Thefreakyfreek
      @Thefreakyfreek 6 лет назад

      i was going to say that good on you both

  • @MB-hs4vp
    @MB-hs4vp 6 лет назад +6

    Looking forward to the builds. Also, it's nice to see a video listing the pros and cons of each of the normal driver flavors instead of just servo vs stepper.

  • @DevilsHandyman
    @DevilsHandyman 6 лет назад +170

    I love the way your carbonize the wires to improve their efficiency. ;)

  • @bustedparts
    @bustedparts 6 лет назад +1

    I love this video! I am very new to the whole motion control world and the overview you gave on the different systems are fantastic!

  • @xDevscom_EE
    @xDevscom_EE 6 лет назад +16

    That's exactly how I used thermal-shrink tube yesterday at work :)

  • @microdesigns2000
    @microdesigns2000 5 лет назад +3

    5:45, yes I read that monster datasheet. Overwhelming is a good adjective. I look forward to using this Trinamic chip set.

  • @swandonovan
    @swandonovan 6 лет назад +16

    Man, I love your videos. Thanks

  • @emilen2
    @emilen2 4 года назад +3

    10:12 That's a very beautiful layered musical chord your motors struck! I might sample that.

  • @alexandrepv
    @alexandrepv 6 лет назад +3

    That is very nice field-oriented-control on those brushless motors! Amazing! And for a fraction of a fraction of the cost!

  • @FranklyPeetoons
    @FranklyPeetoons 6 лет назад +48

    I like these comedy videos masquerading as engineering videos. Dry as a bone!

  • @Sigmatechnica
    @Sigmatechnica 6 лет назад +5

    I love how projects to make cnc kit to make stuff become more importent/interesting than the stuff you needed a cnc machine for to start with :D

  • @BuilderV8
    @BuilderV8 5 лет назад

    What a fantastic demonstration of control and description. Thank you.

  • @AiswaranDevaraj
    @AiswaranDevaraj 6 лет назад

    for some reason this channel is soothing to watch i dont know why and some of them i dont even know what they are

  • @divyajnana
    @divyajnana 6 лет назад +2

    just found your site, super funny and useful at the same time, subscribed, THANK YOU!

  • @AndersJackson
    @AndersJackson 6 лет назад

    Your videos gets better and better each time I watch them. :-)

  • @BergRD
    @BergRD 6 лет назад

    Great video! The 'Press enter and hide!' was superb! :D

  • @mr.sandman4782
    @mr.sandman4782 6 лет назад +2

    CANT WAIT for the project video

  • @Egon.Sorensen
    @Egon.Sorensen 6 лет назад +1

    Wow! Amazing visual effects - it really blew me away + the sound *lol*
    Can you do a video on what you are using to edit your videos - they look soo good! Thumbs up!
    Thanks so much for sharing such superb work. (Glasses and goggles are cool - they keep your looks up ;-)

  •  4 года назад

    It's a good use of your time! Keep doing what you love!

  • @avejst
    @avejst 6 лет назад +1

    Thanks for sharing 😀👍
    You always find a way to use your time, this way or another project way..😉

  • @dimitar4y
    @dimitar4y 6 лет назад +4

    I love the chinese hybrid the most, with that awesome awesome driver that adjusts current and detects step loss. I like the idea it just interrupts, instead of trying to recover (and doing something awful). You could hook that up to a custom program to re-home the machine and continue.

  • @mikemulligancopilotdesigns9904
    @mikemulligancopilotdesigns9904 3 года назад

    Man your videos are so great! Thanks for sharing!

  • @Tuffenough4u
    @Tuffenough4u 4 года назад +2

    DAMN! I can't believe I didn't know about this Odrive before now. I've an active RC enthusiast for 30 years now, and was into high end 4x4 short course and buggy racing for the last 10. That being said, I'm a hobbywing guy. Hobbywing is the only manufacturer that I know of that offers G2 motors that utilize two separate encoders. This was a real advancement over the rest of the rc motor world, as having two separate hall sensors allowed them run the low resolution sensor for lowspeed operation. Before the invention of these type motors, the speed control (ESC) would just turn the sensor off at low speeds so that it would prevent "cogging" (the bucking and hanging up due to low torque when going from 0-moving) Once the ESC sensed that the motor was running past a certain RPM, it would then turn on the sensor mode for high resolution control and superior efficiency over non-sensored motors. So I guess what I'm getting at is I wonder if it's possible to take one of the G2 Motors that have dual sensors and get write code needed for a redundancy algorithm setup with one of these drivers?.... Hmmm. Got my head spinning now!

  • @user-yx3my1tr5o
    @user-yx3my1tr5o 5 лет назад +3

    I use dynamotion kflop. Real closed loop. From now on I feel joy and calm.
    No matter how much work time, always accurate coordinates.
    Stepper motor driver Leadshine, most silent and powerful.
    42 volts power sourse.

  • @amateurcarolina
    @amateurcarolina 6 месяцев назад

    Neat what you're doing with your scope screen!

  • @DanielRowe
    @DanielRowe 6 лет назад

    Looking forward to seeing these machines.

  • @avaruusvektori
    @avaruusvektori 4 года назад

    Nice review of DIY options, Marco!
    PS have you noticed Finnish company's Granite Device and their IONI drive? Those drives are quite flexible and can do almost everything of all the drives reviewed here in single model. Story of that company started from hobby CNC project, very much like yours :)

  • @davidprock904
    @davidprock904 5 лет назад

    I got plans to build my own 3D printer, also designing my own stepper motor, godly strong and insane accuracy and precision.
    The design is still just in my head, and a lot of gearing is involved. And motion conversion, that I could use a bit of help with

  • @FilmFactry
    @FilmFactry 5 лет назад

    Excellent information, very helpful!

  •  6 лет назад

    Thank you, the tmc5160 is exactly what I need for my robot. Progress is moving so fast, I checked all the Stepper driver 6 month ago, and somehow missed the tmc5160. If I find somewhere time I make a driver like you suggested (no promise lot of other projects).

  • @armandgeorges4380
    @armandgeorges4380 6 лет назад +1

    The best channel on RUclips!

  • @modfabcom-au9909
    @modfabcom-au9909 6 лет назад

    Love your work Marco !

  • @tobystewart4403
    @tobystewart4403 5 лет назад

    Great information and style. The Odrive is the madness.

  • @megapwn333
    @megapwn333 5 лет назад +1

    I'm working with the TMC5161 right now the brand new motor controller from trinamic

  • @jon_raymond
    @jon_raymond 6 лет назад

    Thanks for such a great comparison!

  • @ponydown4189
    @ponydown4189 5 лет назад +1

    The perfect video I was looking for! Danke! If I'm guessing the accent right.

  • @wilsonmura5930
    @wilsonmura5930 6 лет назад +5

    Great vid! & also could you please pass along the links for the gimbal motors and encoders?

  • @joshwarner5676
    @joshwarner5676 6 лет назад

    This is pretty much the same conclusion I came to with the odrive vs a hybrid stripper system when considering for my next build. Laser time with the odrive.

  • @georgevukelich607
    @georgevukelich607 4 года назад

    We just built a 6kW pulsed laser system at work to weld proprietary dissimilar metals. We're also using a 1kW psed laser to abate the weld edge of the metal.

  • @metricstormtrooper
    @metricstormtrooper 6 лет назад +72

    I can only understand 10% of what you talk about, but its really interesting and entertaining anyway.

    • @res1492
      @res1492 6 лет назад

      No...i just thick!!

    • @metricstormtrooper
      @metricstormtrooper 6 лет назад

      G510Gamer What accent?

    • @metricstormtrooper
      @metricstormtrooper 6 лет назад

      res1492 That was unnecessary.

    • @res1492
      @res1492 6 лет назад +2

      Ermm...thanks for caring but i really am thick!!...im 42 and just figured out how to tie my shoelaces yesterday

    • @tylouww.1915
      @tylouww.1915 6 лет назад +1

      I think its a german accent, because i am Form Germany and i can hear it

  • @grantsunday8916
    @grantsunday8916 6 лет назад

    Entertaining and informative. Sehr gut

  • @rikilshah
    @rikilshah 6 лет назад

    Your raw humor is certainly a treat to ears. That concerned Kermit though.

  • @robertanderson6471
    @robertanderson6471 5 лет назад

    Thank you for building something real quick

  • @Tuffenough4u
    @Tuffenough4u 4 года назад

    This is like an opensource RC ESC (speed controller)! The newest Hobbywing G2 capable speed controls like the Pro XE series has all the features you mentioned the Odriver does, such as dual hall sensor control, regenerative braking, etc. I wonder if the creator was a Hobbywing tech defector?! haha

  • @thomasfolbrecht4067
    @thomasfolbrecht4067 6 лет назад

    The Kermit got me. Another excellent video!

  • @JoeSmith-wu3yz
    @JoeSmith-wu3yz 5 лет назад

    Good job as always :)

  • @MegaFPVFlyer
    @MegaFPVFlyer 6 лет назад +1

    Maybe I've finally found a use for all the BLDC motors I have lying around!

  • @MadHatter123456
    @MadHatter123456 6 лет назад

    Thanks a lot! Awesome stuff! Made me think about using an ODrive for my DIY-lathe, but I think I'll stick to my chinese servos for that. If only they could be used with step/direction...

    • @johnstigglet7512
      @johnstigglet7512 6 лет назад

      I think you will find step and direction is available

  • @avejst
    @avejst 6 лет назад

    Interesting stuff
    Thanks for sharing 😀👍

  • @brucewilliams6292
    @brucewilliams6292 6 лет назад

    Thank you for sharing your dilemma! :)

  • @brainfornothing
    @brainfornothing 6 лет назад

    Wow ! Ben Krasnow is in the House ! I made my own drivers, very simple schematics, for my first and second CNC's, in the late 90's, before eBay, Hehehe! My next CNC's will be a little PCB mill/LED laser engraving and a robust CNC router; this video gave me a good solution for the last one, with thick steel frame like my second CNC, maybe 400x400 mm, to use in wood, aluminium and steel, using soft passes and refrigeration. What is your goal ? Thanks for sharing !

  • @AdaptivePhenix
    @AdaptivePhenix 6 лет назад

    Excellent vid! Great information....and humour LOL

  • @PhG1961
    @PhG1961 6 лет назад

    Waw, absolutely a great video !

  • @barirwin8559
    @barirwin8559 5 лет назад +1

    I love your work, Marco. Thanks alot

  • @twistedsocal
    @twistedsocal 5 лет назад

    clear path servos are pretty nice and I believe they have decent holding strength

  • @iosonogerva1989
    @iosonogerva1989 6 лет назад +9

    I used a lot of those chinese closed loop stepper at work and i have mixed feeling. On one hand they are very convenient but in the other hand the factory tuning is not suitable for all uses.
    For example, the PID that control the feedback, can (and will) cause oscillation and imprecise positioning on fast movements due to overshoot, the auto tuning of the power is so hit and miss that i discovered that the best solution i to disable it (even when it's disabled it seem to set its parameters at boot resulting in a motor that does not have consistent torque between boots).
    All of those problems can be solved configuring the parameters but good luck in sourcing the correct software for your specific controller (even the manufacturer can't send me a working version of the software that's not in chinese and untranslatable).
    BTW they seem to be all manufactured (or cloned) by a company named LeadShine and they even exist in the more convenient integrated form with the driver mounted on the side of the motor.
    I have some controllers with the chip marking readable, if you want some info on the chip i can send you a photo

    • @hyperhektor7733
      @hyperhektor7733 5 лет назад

      you could just upload the images to imgur.com/
      so we could all see the info. :)

  • @cedricpod
    @cedricpod 5 лет назад

    I love this video great info and great voice

  • @R3DE3MER
    @R3DE3MER 5 лет назад

    love that kermit in the background at 10:12

  • @ProtoG42
    @ProtoG42 5 лет назад

    What voltage are you driving those gimbal motors? 22V?

  • @MCsCreations
    @MCsCreations 6 лет назад

    Really nice. 😊 You could use the laser machine to cut foam to make rc airplanes, like Peter Sripol. LOL

  • @thatoneguy99100
    @thatoneguy99100 5 лет назад +4

    Can you make a video specifically for the TMC5160?

  • @Andreas-gh6is
    @Andreas-gh6is 6 лет назад

    I just love your humor!

  • @sergiocardenasreyes7418
    @sergiocardenasreyes7418 6 лет назад

    Amazing video. What controller would you recommend If one wanted to work with a small brushless motor (like the blue beetle you show 8:31) ?

  • @milolouis
    @milolouis 5 лет назад +4

    WHAT!! did you just burn your scopes LCD?? Special effects?

  • @thecyclingmaker
    @thecyclingmaker 5 лет назад

    hmmmm, that click at 9:56 and yes, a great video, thankyou

  • @GeorgeTsiros
    @GeorgeTsiros 3 года назад

    those gimbal motors are _gorgeous_

  • @Z0DI4C
    @Z0DI4C 4 года назад

    I'm seeing some more usable TMC2160-based stepper driver modules on Aliexpress now. Looks like they're new, although I'm sure it'll be hard to get one for a few weeks due to the whole, uh, quarantine thing.

  • @DodgyBrothersEngineering
    @DodgyBrothersEngineering 5 лет назад

    Giving you a like and a comment because you have the right amount of geek going on.

  • @Hobbyminecraft
    @Hobbyminecraft 6 лет назад

    lol. you made a video about the RS RTB2004 and I thought damn what a cool scope but way to expensive for a poor student like me. So I wanted to look what scope my favorite technik youtuber uses in Daily Use. But I almost fell of my chair when I see the Price of this Monster. So I think this won´t be my first DSO :D Have to look for something cheaper. Great Video by the way. love your style.

  • @vasyapupken
    @vasyapupken 5 лет назад +2

    closed loop stepper is actually a good choice. all servos has very bad holding torque in compare so it's not because "not tuned".
    even fine tuned proper servo motor must be next size up to have holding torque similar to stepper. (nema23 stepper = nema34 servo)

  • @MrMissionkid
    @MrMissionkid 4 года назад

    This was interesting thank you. I'm curious though, why not add the encoder to a stepper, get the best of both systems?

  • @bringamosa8480
    @bringamosa8480 6 лет назад +1

    5:45 got me cracking up. awesome

  • @qedqubit
    @qedqubit 6 лет назад

    the video thumbnail shows an awesome BW-image of an encoder disk,
    that can explain the stepping sequence, and microstepping but also explain binary counting.-but you didn't show it in the video ?

  • @umargul5644
    @umargul5644 4 года назад

    Well done sir very useful

  • @bitluni
    @bitluni 6 лет назад

    Where dit you get the laser from ?

    • @reps
      @reps  6 лет назад +1

      A person! He has a few more of those and wanted me to make a few CC drivers in exchange for this one 😍

  • @xaytana
    @xaytana 6 лет назад +3

    Hobby rc motors are designed to spin very fast, especially those used in hobbyist aviation; do you think having a reduction transmission, probably a harmonic or hypocycloidal for almost no backlash and efficiency, the setup would have holding torque? Having the encoder after the reduction transmission could also improve accuracy.

    • @flarosantana6330
      @flarosantana6330 2 года назад

      Putting the the motor through a worm and spur gear would get rid if back drive and solve the holding torque issue. Then could put the encoder after the gear system as well. The gears would have to interface perfectly for no backlash however.

  • @nrdesign1991
    @nrdesign1991 4 года назад

    At this point I'm really interested in integrating three of those hybrid servo drives into my 3D printer

  • @skyhacker6
    @skyhacker6 5 лет назад +1

    0:25 RIP the oscilloscope !!!! smoke, smoke everywhere !!!

  • @Tedlasman
    @Tedlasman 3 года назад

    So, this is another thing I bought that happens to be in video I watched from you.

  • @ProjectileObjects
    @ProjectileObjects 5 лет назад

    @Marco Reps, What do you mean by medium-sized motors @5:18 with the Trinamic? Was it the same hybrid motor from the "Blue Chinese Hybrid?" I'm trying to build something similar that will support 10Kg suspended weight. Any thoughts?

  • @johnstigglet7512
    @johnstigglet7512 6 лет назад +1

    Hi Marco, very interested in the ODrive, and its capability, However not with the hobby motors, bat a connection with the hybrid stepper/ Servo style motor. do you think its possible to these aforementioned motors from tho ODrive?
    Regards Stiggie

  • @MyPintado
    @MyPintado 6 лет назад

    Great stuff. I came to the same conclusion as you did and went Blue Hybrid, but I'm still looking for my motion controller. I've seen some nice one but they're $800 usd and up. I would like to go full 3d if at all possible but the cost is an important factor. Any suggestions... Any possibility of doing the same type article with motion control boards. Again thank you so very much for the article.

  • @warlockd
    @warlockd 6 лет назад

    I am really interested in the odrive. My grandpa gave be 9 of these Superior Electric 3 5.5 amp phase stepper motors. I thought the were neet, at first. Running like a regular motor at 60hz mains or as stepper. But company is out of business after 30 years and no one makes a driver for 3 windings:P

  • @hamidsk2573
    @hamidsk2573 4 года назад

    thanks for sharing your experience
    can you advise me which alternative solution would be available for a high power servo motor (over 3kw)?
    BR

  • @KaspersMC
    @KaspersMC 6 лет назад +1

    upper right corner 1:12 ?
    first i believe it was a dancing bird... but No (1:27), Maybe some Cool display there show Sound ?

  • @peterpersson1967
    @peterpersson1967 5 лет назад

    Hi, Are you still happy with the Chinese closed loop stepper? We are thinking about to buy a few for an industrial environment application replacing the regular steppers

  • @ManofCulture
    @ManofCulture 6 лет назад

    Yey! another vid!

  • @wizrom3046
    @wizrom3046 4 года назад

    You said when stepper motors skip a step "it always skips 1.8 degrees" but it's actually 7.2 degrees (360 / 50) because it skips to the next compatible pole of which there are 50 per rotation.
    Also the property of servos and encoders to deflect from the desired position is bad in cnc cutting because that deflection will be caused by the cutting tool forces and the result is poor rigidity. You are better with stepper that have a high holding torque or high torque servo motors and lots of gearing.
    Great vid, and nice humour too! 👍

  • @adamhacking8631
    @adamhacking8631 6 лет назад

    Thanks for this video. Just wondering if anyone has made a standalone TMC based driver module?

  • @a51mj12
    @a51mj12 5 лет назад

    NEED MORE REPS!!!

  • @JustinAlexanderBell
    @JustinAlexanderBell 6 лет назад +1

    I just received my behemoth NEMA34 12N.m closed loop steppers, completely overkill but the price was just too good to pass up.

  • @alexherrerag6997
    @alexherrerag6997 4 года назад +1

    1:12 this sounds comes from stepper motor feddback vibrration?

  • @MarcusBehrens
    @MarcusBehrens 6 лет назад

    Hi Marco, I have used stepper motors with encoders and gear motors with encoder on the motor shaft. The later gives you very precise control over the movement as the gearbox translates 1 revolution of the motor shaft into 1/100 of a revolution on the gearbox shaft and if you have a resolution of 48 steps on the encoder you already get 4800 encoder steps for one revolution. Have you considered such gear motors? They have much more holding power and power in general and use less amps. They are used a lot in robots. Regards, Marcus from Heidelberg

    • @reps
      @reps  6 лет назад

      Not considered yet, but I definitely will now! Thank you from Hannover :)

  • @NikitaLab
    @NikitaLab 6 лет назад

    I highly suggest UCCNC and one of their controllers for controlling the machine

  • @jenshenriksandell1178
    @jenshenriksandell1178 6 лет назад

    Hi Marco
    You did not cover “absolute positioning”. Have you considered a ten-turn potentiometer, a wire, and a pulley as a absolute position encoder?

  • @botak333
    @botak333 8 месяцев назад

    So do u recomend servo motor with odrive for cnc?

  • @maliakbulut
    @maliakbulut 4 года назад

    I wonder, what happens if you suddenly release the closed-loop step motor's shaft after preventing its motion few time with a strong hold ??

  • @dunichtich100
    @dunichtich100 6 лет назад

    Verry verry verry good quality video!!!

  • @DUIofPhysics
    @DUIofPhysics 6 лет назад +3

    Hi Marco, nice video, I work in the motion control industry. If you want some high resolution encoders, check out rls.si for some great linear magnetic encoders, I've been using them a lot. The board mount units specifically.