Any chance you can do comparison with a 4g64 block as some evo owners like myself use them for 2.4 builds. would be good to know if they are similar in strength or alot weaker.
Its the amount of air the heads flow, somewhere in the 300cfm with stock ports. VCT to help with low end torque aswell as VTEC, small cam for low rpm, big cam for high rpm, very smooth and linear engine thats very eager to rev, 8500rpm redline from factory, 9000rpm redline with a tuned ecu or higher in built motors, bottom ends are also very robust, well known to take 320-340wkw on completely stock engines (stock head, stock bottom end completey unopened) with boost on e85, ive had a look at the bottom ends also and noticed the girdle is tied into the block, similar to that of a plazmaman billet girdle that is made for an SR20. After playing with RBs, SR20s including doing a VE head swap and now having done a K series build i can say the engineering put into the K series is what makes it a great motor.
@@TurboVisBits Ray Loulach know's what he is talking about K20/K24 are great motors but Mostly Best for the N/A scene but when it comes to Boost B Series is Defs King... Go look at Rays Channel.. he Loves his Civic's owns a EG with the Plates 4GLOL, makes over 1000fwhp on a Hub dyno, Pretty sure he also owns an Evo of his own,
There's a reason the 4G63 is such a legendary engine.. Well.. block at least lol... Such basic roots back in the 80's to what it became... and why so many love this Engine. ..Me.. very much so... as well as the 4AGE.... Huge thanks for showing us what you found... Side note: ummm 500-600kw block... then becomes deficient ...really??!.. Pretty impressive.. coming from an 80's design!!! Anyone would know that's far beyond the limit from a stock 2lt block... 20 years ago... When the Tommi Makinen Edition was released... you think, that anyone thought that 500-600kw would be achievable through the Mitso 4G63?? Just glad that engine builders and tuners had the brains and talent to bring these engines to such a huge level... with an iron casting......lol... at least it's acoustically dead... that's a plus...
Waited for around 1 year since asking if this video will ever release! Haven’t tried searching for it in months and randomly looking today I found it 41 seconds after release and end up being the first like! Damn i’m happy to see this and what are the odds! Thanks for this and please keep up the 4G63 content along with all these amazing test & diagnosis videos!
More importantly the 5sfe as they have true siamese bores the length of the cylinder unlike the 3sge/3sgte blocks, hence the common 5sgte builds seen in the MR2/Alltrac community. All 5 generations of 3sge/3sgte blocks have a 30-40mm cavity between bores at the top of the cylinders, (I assume for more cooling surface area where the most heat is generated and to create a more interconnected coolant flow path) which is the reason for the common cracking in builds over 3-400wkw (obviously turbo/fuel/application dependant, cylinder pressure vs RPM associated with these power levels being the defining reason for failures) ALL generations of 5sfe and some 3sfe feature the full siamese cylinders (some 3sfe cars used 3sgx blocks as they are fundamentally interchangable, unlike the larger bore 5sfe 87mm vs 86mm Depending on the location and time of production, due to over production of 3sge/3sgte blocks relative to demand, the cavity can be seen through the front frost plug holes if you are looking to confirm what block is actually being used..) there is also a well known cracking issue around the head bolt hole nearest the water pump, Toyota added extra material to all S series blocks in this area from 1996, these are known as 'straight edge blocks' and can easily be identified by the straight edge and generally thicker area around the deck face by the water pump instead of the previous generations where it followed the contour of the cylinder and a bulge is seen where the bottom of the head bolt/stud would bottom out. Again due to old stock being used, not all 1996 blocks feature this and it's generally accepted that it is not a guarantee untill 1997-8 depending on who you ask. There is also word about American cast 5sfe blocks (known as 'square boss' due to the raised square areas where the freeze plugs are located) which are rumored to have thicker cylinders/decks but I have seen 0 evidence proving this unlike everything else mentioned here.
All 3sge/3sgte blocks are weak in-between cylinders, if you're shooting for over 300wkw I'd suggest finding a 1997+ 3sfe/5sfe or you'll be cracking bore eventually
Those bloopers 😂😂 more of them please hahaha Very informative videos as always thank you for the great content! By the way what happened to the vr38 awd r34 gtr build?
I love these tests. I don't know if Australia has 4G64 or 2.4L examples there, but I'd be curious to see what they're like. It has a taller deck, and perhaps a thicker deck. They do have a bigger bore as well, but that might equate to thinner cylinder walls. Furthermore, I'd like to see if Hyundai or Kia blocks are any different from Mitsubishi blocks. I don't know of anyone else doing this kind of testing for the public's knowledge base.
Would really help to have a proper ultrasonic thickness tester like a DMS2 or 38DL with an A-scan display, so you can see what the waveform is doing. You could have seen these changes in section without cutting it open. Generally helps with ensuring you are picking up a clean backwall and not other geometric features or point reflectors.
@@MotiveVideo For sure at the cost it's probably worth it for r&d, but if there's ever anything you don't want to or can't cut open these sets can help in seperating spurious indications.
HP Academy just did an interview with Julien Godfrey this morning where he stated that he put a 12mm steel plate between the block and head to ensure block rigidity as they run 3.0bar through a 45mm restrictor.
Damn I never knew that about the 4g63 block. I always thought they were sleeved like honda blocks. Is there no other way to better support or strengthen that block ? So next on the list ; 4g93, 4age, 3gte, ej20, b16a, k20/24, h22, lr8, 13b.
I think the only way to make a standard block stronger would be to do interference fit sleaves, which requires the original one to be milled out very precisely then replaced which is what high level diesel guys do
bingoberra18 I want to see this info too. I’ve got a built 6 bolt VR4 motor that was built for 700hp. APC ran the 6 bolt deep into the 9’s consistently with no issues also. I was always told the 6 bolt block was much harder and thicker.
I Bet that an l-series f54 turbo block would blow all those other blocks out of the water. Supposedly they're siamesed. And you can go from an 86mm bore to a 90mm bore.
Very interesting. Wonder how Tilton go about their builds seeing this as they are making well over 5-600kw and still using the cast block instead of going billet like what Michael Baghdadi did with his 8.
@@MotiveVideo Thanks mate, I must be tired asf I thought he said cast alloy with sleeves. Also just want to say GTR festival was fkn awesome, drove my RS4 Stagea down from Brisbane. Worth every penny.
haha great to see I chose a solid 4 cylinder for the awd Mini project. That being said... yeeahhh I shifted the weight sooooooo far forward swapping front aluminium to cast iron... oh well, it's pretty damn robust nonetheless :-D
@@MotiveVideo however they are cheap engines to get ahold of, it could also expand your audience(more so when I'm guessing that most of your audience is Australian anyway) and the 5l at least has been a rival motor within a shared chassis as the RB(VL) and you could go over why the RB is often the better choice and ecotecs have been proven to make some big numbers too
How about testing a Toyota 3SGE?...The 90s Castrol Tom's Supra won a few races with a 3SGE...A world class race crew like Castrol Tom's dumps a 2JZ Turbo for a 3SGE Turbo...absolutely crazy! Right?
You need to progress to an "A-Scan" ultrasonic flaw detector and learn how to use it. You need to see where the reflected signal is coming from and you see what is going on. Ultrasound at this frequency (2Mhz - 5Mhz) will not pass through an interface of air, but will pass through solids and liquids.
@@carbonfiber492 yeah Im not suprised, its a shame as i do have a block which would be perfect but i expect the postage wouldnt be cheap from the UK and back again
I'm going to save them the comment, they're a sleaved block so there's not much of a point in testing if you plan on pushing over 800hp reliably it's better to start with an iron block or getting a resleaved block
Please do this more often!! Would love to see the pros and cons of other engine configurations
The 4G63 has years and years of WRC development starting from the 1980's. That's why it's good.
the 4g63 has been my fav engine after RB, i was looking for a video on yt where they do the tests, glad that i found it here only, best channel indeed
Im liking seeing these sonic tests.. its like opening a treasure chest! And LOL the last part haha
Awesome data. One of the reasons this channel stands out from the rest.
Loving the variety of videos as of late! Not just good ol' RB content 😝
4G63T for life!!
Lol
@@krispykruzer nice nervous laughter
Testing a Volvo B230 (redblock) would be super interesting for the Volvo guys in Denmark/sweden!
Any chance you can do comparison with a 4g64 block as some evo owners like myself use them for 2.4 builds. would be good to know if they are similar in strength or alot weaker.
4b11s are weaker than the 6 bolt 4g63t
6 bolt blocks all the way.
@@Ryan_1997 no they are not
Love to know what makes the k series a great engine
Its the amount of air the heads flow, somewhere in the 300cfm with stock ports. VCT to help with low end torque aswell as VTEC, small cam for low rpm, big cam for high rpm, very smooth and linear engine thats very eager to rev, 8500rpm redline from factory, 9000rpm redline with a tuned ecu or higher in built motors, bottom ends are also very robust, well known to take 320-340wkw on completely stock engines (stock head, stock bottom end completey unopened) with boost on e85, ive had a look at the bottom ends also and noticed the girdle is tied into the block, similar to that of a plazmaman billet girdle that is made for an SR20. After playing with RBs, SR20s including doing a VE head swap and now having done a K series build i can say the engineering put into the K series is what makes it a great motor.
The simple fact that it’s not a 4g is what makes a k series so grate B series for the win tho
@@JAP16V K sure, B ? lol.
@@TurboVisBits Ray Loulach know's what he is talking about K20/K24 are great motors but Mostly Best for the N/A scene but when it comes to Boost B Series is Defs King... Go look at Rays Channel.. he Loves his Civic's owns a EG with the Plates 4GLOL, makes over 1000fwhp on a Hub dyno, Pretty sure he also owns an Evo of his own,
@@jjsorenavki7005 Worlds fastest h pattern in the world is grannas 2jz supra second is boostin performance 4g63 talon
This channel is full of gold info! Nothing but FACTS... AMAZING.
Another awesome Video Herman and thank you @Motive Video for bringing this cool stuff on the channel!
Keep up the good work!
Kind of have to do a 3SGTE now. Love these videos though. Thank you.
There's a reason the 4G63 is such a legendary engine.. Well.. block at least lol...
Such basic roots back in the 80's to what it became... and why so many love this Engine. ..Me.. very much so... as well as the 4AGE....
Huge thanks for showing us what you found...
Side note: ummm 500-600kw block... then becomes deficient ...really??!.. Pretty impressive..
coming from an 80's design!!!
Anyone would know that's far beyond the limit from a stock 2lt block... 20 years ago... When the Tommi Makinen Edition was released... you think, that anyone thought that 500-600kw would be achievable through the Mitso 4G63??
Just glad that engine builders and tuners had the brains and talent to bring these engines to such a huge level...
with an iron casting......lol... at least it's acoustically dead... that's a plus...
Waited for around 1 year since asking if this video will ever release! Haven’t tried searching for it in months and randomly looking today I found it 41 seconds after release and end up being the first like! Damn i’m happy to see this and what are the odds! Thanks for this and please keep up the 4G63 content along with all these amazing test & diagnosis videos!
I want to see a vg30 block. The v confit of the rb. I have both the 30p and f65 castings I can lend you
Man I'd love to see a VR30DDTT examined. Great video! 👍
Test it against a 3SGTE
supply a 3S and they possibly will
Florida Man wouldn’t be hard I’d imagine the block is the same as the RAV4 and celica
More importantly the 5sfe as they have true siamese bores the length of the cylinder unlike the 3sge/3sgte blocks, hence the common 5sgte builds seen in the MR2/Alltrac community. All 5 generations of 3sge/3sgte blocks have a 30-40mm cavity between bores at the top of the cylinders, (I assume for more cooling surface area where the most heat is generated and to create a more interconnected coolant flow path) which is the reason for the common cracking in builds over 3-400wkw (obviously turbo/fuel/application dependant, cylinder pressure vs RPM associated with these power levels being the defining reason for failures) ALL generations of 5sfe and some 3sfe feature the full siamese cylinders (some 3sfe cars used 3sgx blocks as they are fundamentally interchangable, unlike the larger bore 5sfe 87mm vs 86mm Depending on the location and time of production, due to over production of 3sge/3sgte blocks relative to demand, the cavity can be seen through the front frost plug holes if you are looking to confirm what block is actually being used..) there is also a well known cracking issue around the head bolt hole nearest the water pump, Toyota added extra material to all S series blocks in this area from 1996, these are known as 'straight edge blocks' and can easily be identified by the straight edge and generally thicker area around the deck face by the water pump instead of the previous generations where it followed the contour of the cylinder and a bulge is seen where the bottom of the head bolt/stud would bottom out. Again due to old stock being used, not all 1996 blocks feature this and it's generally accepted that it is not a guarantee untill 1997-8 depending on who you ask. There is also word about American cast 5sfe blocks (known as 'square boss' due to the raised square areas where the freeze plugs are located) which are rumored to have thicker cylinders/decks but I have seen 0 evidence proving this unlike everything else mentioned here.
@@joelucas6601 I have a '96 GT4 that has all the stock features of the improved '96 version. Possibly need to get my block checked!
All 3sge/3sgte blocks are weak in-between cylinders, if you're shooting for over 300wkw I'd suggest finding a 1997+ 3sfe/5sfe or you'll be cracking bore eventually
Awesome Video, good to see the Blocks cut up and analysed.
Those bloopers 😂😂 more of them please hahaha
Very informative videos as always thank you for the great content!
By the way what happened to the vr38 awd r34 gtr build?
Love it, the ending was some valuable information too lmao.
I love these tests. I don't know if Australia has 4G64 or 2.4L examples there, but I'd be curious to see what they're like. It has a taller deck, and perhaps a thicker deck. They do have a bigger bore as well, but that might equate to thinner cylinder walls. Furthermore, I'd like to see if Hyundai or Kia blocks are any different from Mitsubishi blocks. I don't know of anyone else doing this kind of testing for the public's knowledge base.
I love this video!!! Keep up with more info on the 4g63!
Oo yeh. Champ blokes back with a 4g63!
keep them coming, love these vids, really interesting 👍
How can one dislike a Motive video? There is always something to learn.
Thanks for you video mate , please make more video jdm sports vehicle block and head we are love it !
Would really help to have a proper ultrasonic thickness tester like a DMS2 or 38DL with an A-scan display, so you can see what the waveform is doing. You could have seen these changes in section without cutting it open. Generally helps with ensuring you are picking up a clean backwall and not other geometric features or point reflectors.
teamneverlost agreed but cutting it open is still the way to find out what is really going on and worth it for long term development
@@MotiveVideo For sure at the cost it's probably worth it for r&d, but if there's ever anything you don't want to or can't cut open these sets can help in seperating spurious indications.
I would love to see GTiR SR20DET and X Trail gt sr20vet.
they dont test aluminum blocks, only cast iron
German blocks? Merc M104, BMW new Supra block or older inline-6 ones?
Awesome information thank you
Can you do an EJ block next? Loving these tests
You can't do it
Really nice and informative video!!
HP Academy just did an interview with Julien Godfrey this morning where he stated that he put a 12mm steel plate between the block and head to ensure block rigidity as they run 3.0bar through a 45mm restrictor.
Good video. Issue can be rectified with some darton sleeves smashed in the bores. Good to go.
Been waiting for this one! Thanks
Great video!, wonder about testing factory rods, pistons, vs aftermarket
Would love to see the specs on an older engine like a 202 holden or a 250 cross flow ford
Even a 265 hemi would be good
Damn I never knew that about the 4g63 block. I always thought they were sleeved like honda blocks. Is there no other way to better support or strengthen that block ?
So next on the list ; 4g93, 4age, 3gte, ej20, b16a, k20/24, h22, lr8, 13b.
I think the only way to make a standard block stronger would be to do interference fit sleaves, which requires the original one to be milled out very precisely then replaced which is what high level diesel guys do
what a great video!! sat through all the others and loved them! hope to see more in the future!, keep up the good work Hawkins! :)
Really good content
Keep this up, I like seeing how good some blocks are. Can you try a 7mgte?
I wonder if there is a difference between the 6-bolt and 7-bolt 4G63, in old evos before the mirroring, its common to use the older 6-bolt.
I bet the 6bolt is even beefier
bingoberra18
I want to see this info too. I’ve got a built 6 bolt VR4 motor that was built for 700hp. APC ran the 6 bolt deep into the 9’s consistently with no issues also. I was always told the 6 bolt block was much harder and thicker.
Dion & da bois @ FabTech
I wonder if the 4g64 has the same issues
I wonder if the early 4g63t 6 bolts are thicker?
I wish you guys got the closed deck ej22t block in aus. Would love to see one of those tested.
What are the plates for between cylinders?
M50 block next please, whole Europe is wating 😀
This stuff is always hella cool
Could you compare the bores between 4g63 and the 4b11 alot of controversy i love the base powerplant of the 4b11 from stock aspec
It would be interesting to see a K-Series comparison (K24 vs K20) and a F20C vs F22C too
What year block is this? I know they improved it over the years
if the block has a vin number stamped on it they could tell you what year it was i'm also curious...
You guys should do a VHR block, no one in the states so far can build anything to last above 800whp
Always great to check you deck hardness 😂
Is this the same between the 6 bolt and the 7 bolt versions?
Any chance of a VG30DETT? Could easily arrange a free block. People running 9 flat on a stock unopened block
I Bet that an l-series f54 turbo block would blow all those other blocks out of the water. Supposedly they're siamesed. And you can go from an 86mm bore to a 90mm bore.
I know it probably wont happen but i would love to see a 6G72TT tested, very interesting engines
Can take .100" overbore and still never needs grout. Can't seal a headgasket but eh
I’m uneducated in this area but couldn’t you machine and resleeve the block so it had 6mm thickness. (Depending on the sleeves hitting each other.)
Please could you do a test on a
VW VR6 3.2 L v 3.6 L V6 want to know which one is better for Turbo thanks 😊.
I would love to know the thicknesses of all popular engines that are in your field.
by any chance would you be able to do this on a 4g93?
Could you do a 6g72 engine block test please.
Very interesting.
Wonder how Tilton go about their builds seeing this as they are making well over 5-600kw and still using the cast block instead of going billet like what Michael Baghdadi did with his 8.
They're many 4g63 engines well over 1000hp, never heard of a cracked 4g63 block. Toughest 4 cylinder engine they're is.
They half fill the block.
@@mehrshadvr4 where did you get this info?
@@supernice_auto people do these in the u.s every often
Hai bro..can 4g64 blok rebore to 88mm?
3S GTE and 5S block can you check the test?
Would love to know if the vr4/evo1-3 block is different
Wow I thought 4g was cast iron. Thanks for the vid boys 👍
Dale W it is cast iron
The other blocks we mentioned are aluminium so can’t compare to them
@@MotiveVideo Thanks mate, I must be tired asf I thought he said cast alloy with sleeves.
Also just want to say GTR festival was fkn awesome, drove my RS4 Stagea down from Brisbane. Worth every penny.
@@MotiveVideo hey Andrew is there any chance of testing the new heritage nismo rb26 block that went back into production ?
haha great to see I chose a solid 4 cylinder for the awd Mini project. That being said... yeeahhh I shifted the weight sooooooo far forward swapping front aluminium to cast iron... oh well, it's pretty damn robust nonetheless :-D
Still would love to see a BMW M50/M52 or S50/S52 block!
can you do a 3sgte next?. i wanna see some more iron 4 cylinders. maybe even a ka24
That’s why you gotta fill them when you’re going for big power
*Half/Quarter fill
Fill them how?
And with what?
Never heard of this before
Internet Internet Moroso engine filler
Lance Edwards
Thanks!
I’ve never seen that before.
Should compare it to a 3S-GTE out of a ST205 or a Gen 3 MR2
When are the early Holden used engines going to be tested, like the 5l, 253, Buick 3.8, ecotec, and all the straight 6's
They dont really suit our Motive market. These arent cheap videos to make either.
@@MotiveVideo however they are cheap engines to get ahold of, it could also expand your audience(more so when I'm guessing that most of your audience is Australian anyway) and the 5l at least has been a rival motor within a shared chassis as the RB(VL) and you could go over why the RB is often the better choice and ecotecs have been proven to make some big numbers too
6 bolt VR4 vs 7 bolt evo 4-9 would be interesting. Owner of a APC built 6 bolt 👌🏻
What are the chances of doing a KA24DE?
How about testing a Toyota 3SGE?...The 90s Castrol Tom's Supra won a few races with a 3SGE...A world class race crew like Castrol Tom's dumps a 2JZ Turbo for a 3SGE Turbo...absolutely crazy! Right?
Try M104, they have a common crack that occurs when people drive them above 1000nm.
Best check the deck flex as you torque plate
does the 4g69 use the same material as the 4g63
Brian Richards i think the casting is the same. 69 just has 87 bore instead of 85mm
Brian Richards yes
Fuck yes!!!! Evo 6 owner here:)
love my evo9
1uz would be a good one to test
You need to progress to an "A-Scan" ultrasonic flaw detector and learn how to use it.
You need to see where the reflected signal is coming from and you see what is going on.
Ultrasound at this frequency (2Mhz - 5Mhz) will not pass through an interface of air, but will pass through solids and liquids.
From which version of evo is this one ?
This was my question
Can we test a 3sgte and 5sgte blocks? I have a spare 3s block
K series motor or EJ motor cut down please!!!!! @Herman @PRP #Luvthesevideos #keepthemcoming
Can you guys test a vh45de plz.
98+ 5sfe block next?
im glad some of the good old days of boring a 179 out 90 thou are gone and those stories of guys 190 thou over on an isuzu block aka gemini
Would like to see small block fords and chevys!
Could you guys test a 1fz fe block?
Can you Please do a VQ38DETT????
Get an iron block LS in for some testing
Any chance of doing this sort of thing with a ford YB Cosworth block?
Shane Graves unless you send them one I’d be really surprised if the did not exactly a common motor here
@@carbonfiber492 yeah Im not suprised, its a shame as i do have a block which would be perfect but i expect the postage wouldnt be cheap from the UK and back again
test an LS. Maybe grab a LS1, 2 & 3 and see difference between. could be interesting
I'm going to save them the comment, they're a sleaved block so there's not much of a point in testing if you plan on pushing over 800hp reliably it's better to start with an iron block or getting a resleaved block
JZ high carbon grey iron very light L6 block
Be amazing to see a 4age smallport redtop 7rib 16v 100kw motor
Should do 4g63 of a evo and 4g69 of a outlander or a 4g63 of a galant