Archery BEEF & Arrow Talk W/ Brandon Mcdonald & Travis T Bone Turner!
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- James, Brandon Mcdonald, and Travis T Bone Turner from Bone Collector discuss a current hot topic in the archery world which is the debate between John Dudley of Nock on and Ranch Fairy discussing arrow weight set ups.
T- Bones channel: / @bonecollectortube
Brandon's channel: / @brandonmcdonald6121
www.bowdisciples.com
IG: jamesvisser & bowdisciples
Realty: james@judsonre.com
What a great podcast. Wish everyone could have debates like these legends. We can’t thank you all for all the info you guys share with us. God bless guys 🏹
Thanks man! It was fun, hop on Instagram for the live next time!
Troy Fowler is living rent free in y'all's minds and it's hilarious. He is the single most threatening entity to corporate archery maybe ever.
All these people talking about ranch fairy ar just getting his name out for free and I love it lol. I love what RF talks about. If only people would watch for than 1 short clip and realize he not talking to everyone.
Like John D arguing was comical considering he shots a heavier arrow than most people anyways and at the weight RF recommends to start on the lower heavy arrow range lol JD's over 500grains trying to argue with him lol. RF never once says shot 650+ only lol I have personal messages from RF saying what I'm shooting is fine and it's 510 with a 23% foc. Also JD even told RF that he never seen his videos like how do you even try to argue with someone when you do t know all the details or what he's saying and why RF is so misquoted. Probably the most misquoted person on the internet lmao. Like why do these people tell people he's wrong your more likely to have an opps and injure an animal with a light arrow. Yes there's pros and cons but our grandparents killed animals with stick bows shooting well under 200 yards I say work on being a better hunter and getting closer.
Speeds cools untill you know math and physics, at some point why not just shot a gun and ditch the bow, bow hunting is more intimate and supposed to challenge your actual hunting skills of how close can I get to this animal. These are just my opinions though and everyone knows what opinions are like (buttholes, everyone had one) if your killing animals whit what you got cool roll with it but if your struggling why not try going heavy, most people use stock 12 grain aluminum inserts with a 100grain mechanical and I bet you most hunter don't even know their arrow weight. I asked a few guys at work that's been killing deer for years some over 20 years and they have no idea what it weights they buy arrows have the shop cut them and go shot, that's all they know
So right...20yrs ago when they all knew it all, the recommendation was 10-12foc. Nobody questioned it. Now the "experts" discount Fowler, but have increased their foc to 15% and heavier front end of arrows. It's the Fowler effect. They can't admit it
Especially John Dudley. It’s hilarious
No he’s really not. They talk about him and don’t think highly of him because he has no idea what he’s talking about. The more he talks the more he shows he has no idea. John and others are making sure that the general public don’t listen to silly incorrect advice Troy gives.
@@toddlymburner5783 🤣 ya he has a zero following. Hahah! And your boy showed how much of a really good dude he is. Fk ya. Totally awesome guy with zero interest in pushing the narrative for corporate archery. I guess the hunting publics success with Troy is also just fake news. Lol! We should regress back to 2002 and have everyone shoot 280 grain arrows and bows that sound like 22s going off. Hahaha
Imagine putting a gut string on a stick and shooting a slightly smaller stick with a sharp rock tied to it and killing buffalo. Then watching people argue about any archery equipment going over 140fps.
So awesome that T-Bone jumped on! James goes with the flow and makes it work with accuracy and repetition, having loads of fun. Brandon has dove into the heavy arrow world but approaches everything with common sense and logical thinking. T-Bone is a genius in disguise, full of wisdom all the way around. Great talk!
Thanks man. So fun
The funny thing is Dud is not using the lightest nore a mechanical.
RF is about 550 being best all around and better with a tanto slim single bevel once other factors are met.
Dud also contradicts himself in that pod cast he tunes his arrow to his bow which is what RF said lol. It was pretty bad.
Dudley shoots the mechanical he designed the t2 by g5 and has for years said shoot mechanicals and not fixed. He hates fixed broadheads so what are you talking about?
@@lucasweaver3058 every large game animal I saw him take was with a fixed head. I don’t know him about designing anything. I know he claims he worked for easton but not sure. I’ll tell you this though the guy is a liar and an unethical hunter especially when he makes a claim that he doesn’t want to have a pass through with archery.
I would not follow this man at all or pay any attention to him.
@@chrisruzsa2798 you are completely so wrong lol. He used rage’s on elk, bear, white tail until collaborating with g5 on the t2 which is essentially another rage type broadhead and always goes for pass through. He states shooting an animal with a fixed blade is like being stabbed with a slender knife but with a mechanical it’s like an axe. You’re causing much more trauma in the event the arrow doesn’t pass through you have a higher chance of that animal expiring and recovering that animal. I don’t know where you’re getting your information about Dudley but you have it all wrong. And yes he has worked and partnered with Easton since he shot competition.
@@lucasweaver3058 straight from the horses mouth is where I got my info from.
No better source than that. A few of his podcasts was more than enough for me.
@@chrisruzsa2798 put a link of these videos because that is no where close to anything he promotes. If there’s one dude to follow in the archery/hunting communities it’s that guy. Puts out the most informative free videos and content and travels doing free workshops at bow shops around the country because he loves archery and hunting. I think you need to do more research on Jon. Theres also a reason every single company wanted him when his contract with PSE expired and he’s been with Easton and Carter releases for 20+ years.
My arrows are in the middle. I shoot 510 grain arrows for whitetail. Since i have shot these 510 grains, i have gotten pass throughs on every deer ive shot. Its not 700 but it still has alot of kinetic energy. Good luck this year boys! I watch both RF, dudley, joel turner, t bone, waddell. I watch as much as i can, to get as much knowlege i can. Great video. If i didnt strictly whitetail hunt, i wouks shoot lighter arrows. When i went to colorado for elk, i shot 440 grain. Because of the longer shots i would have had to take.
Thanks brotha!
I know this is a old video but I think what everyone is missing is this: ranch fairy calls the heavy arrow / high FOC a plan B arrow. Meaning plan A (perfect shot) fails and plan B steps in which is maybe a shot to the ball of the shoulder or another hard bone. Yes your light arrow works but what happens when it don’t work as you intend it to? Of course I’ll get a reply about his awesome everyone shoots but I’ll challenge the worlds best bow hunters to predict what an animal is gonna do, I don’t care how awesome of a shot you are you will NEVER know EXACTLY where that arrow will hit along with it’s EXACT path of travel thru the body.
Going with dr. Ed on this one
These last couple podcasts with MFJJ & T Bone were awesome. I think part of what everyone including Dudley T Bone Waddell MFJJ is afraid of is people thinking 650 grains and 20% FOC makes people think the quartering to shot and shooting thru the shoulder is an ok shot to take. Dudley and everyone is like NO people don’t think that shots ok. Thank all of you guys.
Thank you
Great video!
I have watched most of John's videos on arrows lately, and felt the point he was making is that one should not get wrapped up in the "you have to shoot a xxx weight arrow to hunt deer or whatever. Also that people need to invest the time into practice and make good shots, rather than worrying about perfecting their equipment. Having been out of archery for about 12 years and getting back in recently, I spent about 2 months shooting and took 2nd place in 3D league because most individuals only practice a little before hunting season, and that's it.
However, I still like to tinker, so I play around with my setup and arrows to find what I think works best for my setup. With the Rip TKOs I just ordered and the 15gr insert, I can swap between iron will 10/25gr collar and 100/125gr heads and go from 400 - 440gr to test what will work best for me. I plan to shoot the different weighted arrows through my chrono at 40 yards to see which one retains its KE best or if the loss is miniscule over the increased speed of the lighter arrows.
Current data:
Mathews Z7 @27.5 Draw and 70lb
425gr- 264fps @ 65.79 ft-lbs
450 - 257 @ 66.01 ft-lbs
Thanks man, great comment!
Agree with you.
Ive been bow hunting for 50 years. Ive shot slow bows, fast bows, heavy arrows and light arrows. I shoot a 345 ibo bow at 70 lbs using a 380 grain arrow with a 1.75" mechanical broadhead and i break bone with ease. I shot a buck at almost 30 yards and i broke both front shoulders. He plowed for 60 yards and expired. Both front legs were flopping loose when we picked him up and loaded him in the truck. I shot a doe last year and on the exit i broke her off side leg at the joint. I shot a doe hard quartering away and the arrow entered in front of the hip and exited between the front shoulders. I break ribs with no issues and I always get passthroughs. I use one pin 0-40 yards without the pin leaving the deers body. I only shoot deer at 40 yards and under. I will never go back to a heavy arrow. Now that being said i only use this setup for whitetails. If i was hunting moose or something like that i would use a fixed head with a heavier arrow but the set-up i use now is my favorite for whitetail hunting. It works for me. Everyone should use what they feel is best for them. So many people say it can't be done with the arrow weight i use and its just not true. Accuracy is the most important thing. Having your bow tuned so the arrow comes out perfectly straight and putting the arrow where it needs to be is priority for me. Glad to see T bone again. Wishing him the best.
Thanks man!
What speeds you getting with that setup?
A
Let me debunk another one T Bone, a 425 grain arrow will loose it’s speed faster than a 600 grain arrow. You do not gain anything down range by shooting a lighter arrow. Heavier arrows maintain their speed better than a light arrow the further the distance. Facts!
Nope, not quite a "fact", or at least a half truth. State the speed at 60 yards of a 325 gn and a 650 gn arrows. The lighter arrow will still be going faster than the heavy arrow. The lighter arrow has the speed to lose.
Yea you keep believing that. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink it. The industry really does have you people blind to the facts. Throw a ping pong ball and then throw a golf ball and see which one travels further, the heavier golf ball wins every time. Why? because it is heavier! It’s common sense, the lighter ping pong ball looses momentum faster, the same with the lighter arrows.
Yea you keep believing that. As the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink it. The industry really does have you people blind to the facts. Throw a ping pong ball and then throw a golf ball and see which one travels further, the heavier golf ball wins every time. Why? because it is heavier! It’s common sense, the lighter ping pong ball looses momentum faster, the same with the lighter arrows.
@reidzr2s10 but what goes further a golf ball or a shotput? I have yet to see a shotput go farther. Oh, by the way, I noticed those numbers from a Ranch Fairy presentation.
Heavy arrow die hards are the flat ethers of the archery community 😂
Accuracy is not the king pin, again you can be accurate on targets but you have no control over where the arrow hits the animal once you loose the arrow. You aim where you want to hit the animal but animals tend to move or react to the shot. Plan b, shoot high FOC arrows in case you do hit bone so that you get enough penetration to kill the animal and not wound it.
I don't know how this channel hasn't hit my feed before, but that was a fun little episode!
There's a lot of guys on both ends of the spectrum, but somewhere in the middle is probably the answer for most people. And that answer also depends on what you need the tool to do.
As a mid-west whitetail hunter, I've been shooting in the 500-550 gr range from compounds for most of my bowhunting life. I have a short draw length (26.5") and I'm not a body builder, so I'm always going to be limited on speed, so accuracy has been my biggest concern. I've always have shot aluminum (except for my 1st year), so the weight was just there. What I have noticed is that the broadhead was the biggest factor in killing and recovering deer. I've had some mechanicals w/ carbons not penetrate 6" at 15yds, others have complete pass throughs at 50yds w/ aluminum, replaceable fixed blades not put animals down quickly with good shots, deer spin and hit heavy bone w/ no penetration, they've moved and hit guts.... Most of us have had similar things happen.
After snorting a little "fairy dust" and looking down the heavy arrow rabbit hole, I pretty much bought in because it all makes a lot of sense. But, low to mid 500gr arrows always seems to be where I settle due to arrow flight. The biggest thing that I have taken from guys like Fairy, MFJJ, etc. is the Broadhead integrity, sharpness and arrow flight... which are at the top of Ashby's studies and I think every archery Guru can agree with.
Now, I'm going traditional which is a completely different animal than compound, but the principles are still the same. Again, I've settled in the 530's (that's just how the carbon arrows tuned) with my setup (47# longbow @ my draw length) w/ high FOC (21%) and single bevels. From what I've seen in the past with my slow Lincoln log arrows from the compound, this should be a deadly setup from just about any bow.
Thanks man!
So just my view point and experience. I shoot 620-650. Have no issues shooting 40 yards and rarely ever have to shoot that far. Even at elk have no issues getting within 30. I rather punch a hole in an animal and watch it fall in 60 yards or less, rather than wounding one to death.... But that's what works for me. Not saying I'm right, just saying what works for me. I hunt public land and with my arrows it allows me to be confident in taking the shots I'm given. Would like to point out that with the heavier set ups I get pass-throughs the long way.
Great comment! I agree, closer is always better 🙏
@@BowDisciples I would also like to say that I like the fact y'all take and had a conversation rather that an argument. Part of why I landed on the weight I shoot is that's what my bow shot well. On lighter arrows I had more flyers. Arrow flight is key in my mind.
@@andrewchandler9197 for sure! Appreciate the kind words and yes, I agree! Accuracy is key
Damn, wished I had seen this live. I’ve got over 50 years of archery to contribute. Seen it all and tried about everything from traditional through compound. Light versus heavy heads.
Hop in next time 👌
Been waiting on it all day. Glad to see TBone still in the game.
SUCH a legend for sure. Super pumped that he wanted to chop it up with us!
Great podcast. I'm 62 years old and been bowhunting for 45 years. I seen alot of change in this sport which is my way of life. This sport is know so money motivated that most of the famous archers have sold there souls to business. The problem is the deep tradition of archery and bowhunting has suffered and that makes me sad. I realize time changes and modern technology has alot to offer us as Archers. But the fact that with all the modern technology comes the need to promote it to in most cases to make money that's the world we live in. That's why it's hard to really value opinions of alot of Archery celebrities. Guys like T Bone are getting rare and far between. I hope this sport will never loose the traditions and values I was taught cause without them the sport will slowly die when no money is to made from it. Thanks to T bone and a handful of others the sport lives on for know and maybe the younger young bucks will keep it going thru the years. Good luck and safe hunting. God bless Ralph DeNisco
Thanks Ralph
tried the heavy stuff -650 gr. Now have a bunch of heavy inserts in a box. Settled on 425 gr for 3d and some hunting but have some heavy FMJs at 500 gr I shoot from a backup bow that is about 5 lbs heavier draw and that's as heavy as I want to mess with, Getting older and 60 lbs is about what fits me for draw weight.
Awesome, thanks for the comment
This was WONDERFUL ! T Bone was AWESOME! I agree with much I heard but certainly not all. We all get to choose our setups. I Love LOVE bow and arrow flight tuning. So I have the straight flight penetration part covered, certainly one of the Most Important parts of accuracy.
Thank you
Go heavy just for fun. You do not have to hunt with them if you do not want to. I am a 29" draw, 75# draw, 75% let off on a mathews v3 31. My whitetail hunting arrow is 715 grains w/25% FOC. Chronos at 241 fps. It uses a Black Gold 254 fps sight tape oddly enough though. My longest whitetail kill is 42 yards. What is cool is when you get them quartering towards. You can just break their front legs, cut their heart off, clip a lung, and your arrow is not broken because it is buried six inches in the ground. I'm still batting a thousand with those logs,for now. My gaming bow is a trx 34 at 70#, 70% let off and those arrows are 380 grains. I do have hunting arrows that weigh 484 grains I built for western hunts, but it has been a couple years since I dusted those off.
Thanks!
@@BowDisciples for what? You won't do it.
@@michaelvstheworld3680 ok
For me, my take away from John's videos is shoot an arrow that is perfect for your setup, not just an 'adult arrow' because someone online says to.
I imagine he probably got to see a TON of people shooting hunting arrows for TAC shots, and if we're being honest, hunting arrows are not exactly optimal for most of TAC. Just my 2 cents.
It was interesting having Brandon and T-Bone fill me in haha Glad you were in the live!
@@BowDisciples Of course! Gotta bring in the support
Always appreciate yall 🙏
Hi
I absolutely believe that 95% of penetration issues are due to poor arrow flight. So many dudes let their bow guy paper tune it, then they shoot it 2 weeks before season starts and screw a 2in mechanical on and wonder why it barely popped through the hide....
Yeah I think this happens as well
Great content on this. Wish I could've caught it live.
Next time for sure, it's so fun in the comments
I'm new to bow hunting...you gents are dropping mana from heaven...trying to send arrows on the daily for this upcoming WT season! Thanks for the data upload!
Thanks man!
I like the term of, "practice makes progress."
If you're practicing, you're understand your bow, and arrow flight vs someone who isnt. We are humans, no one is perfect. Practice makes perfect shouldnt be a thing. You're setting yourself up for failure when its not perfect. Make progress, changes happen. We are always looking for the next new best thing! If we are changing all the time, how can it be prefect? Progress, progress is never-ending! 🙌 make changes and work on progress! 😊
Very nicely put 👌
@BowDisciples humans nature is too change and adapt. I know I change my bow, arrows, release, strings, and more on a yearly basis or more 🤣 making that progress everyday!
Love progress
i snorted the ranch fairy dust..It was painful. I hunt in Arizona.. i only have a 26.5" draw shooting 70 lbs. I went and got a high foc, 450 grain arrow shooting around 250 fps. now I shoot a 385 grain VAP going 271 fps.
Which set up are you liking better?
I believe in shoot what you shoot best. I shoot 517grain easton axis out of my Vertix.
Accuracy is king 🤴
The dust was good. Followed his suggestions, n passed through on two elk on frontals. 583 gn 29.5 in draw 72#. But did drop some grains this year. 468 gn taw. They zip👍
@@afidbhawkins3173 Thanks for the comment!
Hey guys, loving the podcast. I do have a comment on drawlength. I have a 31.5 inch drawlength and I shoot a 615 grain arrow which if you just look at my arrow looks insane but in reality it’s not that heavy. But after years of testing arrows from 800 grains to, I think I was 390 grains at one point I found that 550 to 600 works the best for me.
Thank you
What weight # do you pull?? I hope 80#'s at least!?
I believe 74lbs. And am pushing that 615 grain arrow at 280+ fps. I was trying to build an arrow for hunting pigs in Texas and have found that this set up is great in the wind, hits like a train, and wasn’t extremely off the wall to put together.
Loved T-bone's imput. Great discussion guys. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you!
Great conversation I love it Ty so much
You bet! Thanks
Talking extremes, 400 grains to 700. I went from 427 to 550 grains and still have great flight and kinetic energy.
I have so much to say on this as i have done VAST amounts of testing in developing my broadhead. James, we might just have to discuss over a hog hunt amigo.
Sounds fun
Awesome live with all three of you guys. I really enjoy yours and Brandon’s videos and what can you say about TBone besides “legend”. My question is after you hearing about FOC % and a weight from TBone you think you may dabble a little bit with a new arrow in the near future maybe try hitting that 475-500 range?
Yup! I think they talked me into going a bit heavier 👌
Heck with all that, I prefer a animal under 25 yards that is totally unaware of my presence. Great discussion guys!
Closer is always better 👌
I'm pretty sure that most of the Ashby study was done with 80-100 lb ASL style longbows.
To me the heavy arrow is crazy. I use a 380 grain arrow with a mechanical head and 63 lbs and iv taken over 150 deer ,bear ,elk and so far haven't ever needed that just in case bs arrow. If I used a 700 + arrow I'd probably miss low sometimes when I didn't have my distance to the yard and my success would go down. 31 years bow hunting experience and I won't be doing any of the heavy arrow bs.
Love it
I read your post as you have never lot an animal?
Never not had a pass through?
Your the perfect most accurate archer on animals?
Is that what you’re saying?
Everyone needs to read the ashby bowhunting foundation study. They have the facts and are the reason bow hunting is legal in Africa.
T Bone is the man!
Great video! Always great to hear from t-bone!
I think the issue that guys like mfjj and dudley and most guys working in archery shops is that people are looking at extreme foc and heavy arrows as a short cut to help make up for bad shooting. Dudleys biggest point was that all the time and effort the avg person are spending in researching all this could be better served spending time shooting and improving your shooting.
Almost every guy that walks into our shop talking about foc, one of the first things out of their mouths is about hitting a scapula. I always counter with why are you planning on failing? My opinion is a scapula or arm impact is a failed shot. I know things happen i.e. animals jumping/ducking etc. But by coming in and wanting something to shoot through a scapula you've mentally accepted that that's an OK thing to happen.
Also when I watch them shoot they are punching the trigger or have numerous form issues they should focus on and are grouping like 6" to 8" at 20 yards. If they worked on form or got some coaching and worked and getting that grouping to 2" to 4" it would greatly reduce the chance of hitting what you should.
Dudley also touched on having a tuned bow no matter what path you choose for arrows. If it's not tuned and flying well it doesn't matter what kind of arrow it is.
Thanks for the great comment 👍
Nobody should plan on not hitting a bone. It happens they move. This is literally the stupidest comment I’ve read today.
@williedunn-rj6nq if you're building an arrow around specifically hitting the scapula you've already accepted that it's an acceptable outcome.
Yes, animals move. Maybe being the person who waits for the better shot or willing to let down because the chances of a bad outcome are too high. Also chances of bad outcome are far more likely if you're more focused on what gear you're using vs spending time perfecting your form and shooting ability.
Great and informative podcast, my question is what type of kinetic energy are you looking for that will kill all or most north American game ,I hunt mostly whitetail and have been very successful with a 410 grain arrow with a 60lb. draw weight and a 29 inch draw length with a mechanical broad head and I believe my kinetic energy is somewhere in the 65 to 70 pound range. What's your take on that setup?thank you all for all you do for the archery industry.
I'm not sure but similar to my set up. 422 with rage. 29.5 draw 73 pounds
Really good controversial podcast. I'm glad T-Bone was able to put his makeup on and make a appearance. I feel that there is definitely a tool for every job. Being from northeastern Indiana a lot of the shots that you're most likely going to make with a bow ,Max 40 yd. I feel a heavy arrow being up-close-and-personal would give you a good advantage. I'm definitely not going to sling a 550+ grain arrow past 50 yards. To me trying things like that would result in irresponsible outcomes. Be smart! Be ethical! Be respectful! Great conversation gentleman, have a good day.
Ethics are always key! Thanks man
Awesome video and thanks so much
Thanks man!
That’s a lie T Bone, I shoot single bevel broad heads and 2 years ago I made a bad shot on a Doe. Totally my fault but I hit her just in front of her hind quarter and exited midway of the body on the other side. She went 40 yards and piled up. Nothing to do with how wide the cut is, it boils down to how sharp your broad head is. We all know those mechanicals are dull right out of the pack.
Loved the content. Loved the information very informative
Thank you
How did I miss this! Great live guys✌🏾🏹
Next time!
Good vid, this is like a Ford Chevy argument. I have watched Nock On vids and I am a fairly new archery, but my takeaway from Dudley’s video was different than Brandon is portraying. As an outdoors that hunts with firearms, archery, fishes, target shooting with shotguns and what I don’t care for is one outdoor voice is calling out another by name. Put the info out there, let the audience weed it out, but don’t attack others in our industry or field there are plenty of haters out there constantly trying to take down the hunting world let’s not do it to each other
I agree 👍 💯
I watch this video please please please keep doing what you’re doing. I love the gas T-bone is my man I really like the information. He gives you when it comes to archery. You give out good information too. You’re helping so many Bow hunter‘s in 3-D shooters with your videos You are blessed and I thank you that you post them so we can all learn something I’m 62 years old. I shoot a 60 pound ball and I’m still learning and I’ve been hunting for over 40 years. I’m trying to understand the greens when it comes to an arrow. I shoot a 300 grain Easton 6.5 with a 100 Greenfield point how would I add that up to the exact hour wait
Thanks so much for the kind words
You are absolutely lying to say you’ve never watched a Ranch Fairy video. I could see it in your eyes!
🏹🎯
👍
It doesn't matter if you are shooting a toothpick or a fence post at whatever you are shooting at it's what the person shooting wants to shoot and you can never reach the point of to much over kill and that is a true statement in my opinion gives you a little piece of mind you have to practice and be able to hit what you are shoot at there will be times shit happens things happen when shoot live targets not static ones I shoot a 550 grain arrow I consider it a light arrow the more people talk about things like this the more people are going to talk and be divided shoot what you want to be proficient in what ever you are shoot or doing and have fun.
The bone breaking threshold only means that’s when he saw a jump in the percentage of times it broke. Not that you can’t get break bone with less just that all platforms took a jump in bone breaking ability.
Gotcha
I am now shooting the rip ex vel. At about 402 to 403 but I did it for more yardage outta my bow I do like how much quieter my bow is with the heavier arrow but great discussion boys
Nice!
It’s kind of vain to think you and a few others discovered heavy weight forward arrows. Went down the lite, overdrawn bows and mechanical broadheads only to realize they didn’t work very well 40 years ago. As did a lot people and the Indians. 350 spine Black Eagle vintage, 100 brass insert, 300 grain broadhead get you to 740 grains.
I'm listening to the Podcast that T bone and Michael Waddell did last year on A Bone to Pick. T bone said all of the same things he said on the podcast from.last year that he said to you guys!
Roger that, I'll have to listen
Great topic and guests
Thanks man, we had fun
Well this is fun! 👏
Yessir!
If you are having success then don’t change your set up. But be critical of it to make sure it is successful and not just getting by with the skin of you teeth. I think a lot of people (myself included) had multiple terrible experiences with light fast setups. So to say it’s better for everyone is wrong. And most guys are blowing through everything. If you watch their videos there’s alot of arrow hanging out. I think most people worry about the arrow flying through the air and think it stays the same from the bow to the target. And not worried about getting their arrow through the target. We understand that guns loose energy and there’s a max range and we don’t for bows because your arrows slows down so much and if you need speed for energy then you have way less energy on impact and then you have a soft spine so it rebends like it did out of the bow which takes alot of energy away from the bow. Again if your set up works 100% then don’t change if not then evaluate it and if it’s penetration then your arrow isn’t adequate or your shooting to far for it. As a hunter not an archer I want as many shot angles as possible because they move no matter the set up
Agreed, thanks!
Its true. All pro hunters say the same 430 to 500 grains.
Done!
You loose to much speed which contributes to arrow drop mistakes made in yardage or judging yardage, animal movements, etc.
I agree with that range
I second that weight range.
👌
That doesn’t matter when they are 20 yards away. I swear y’all need to do some research on what they say
I think T-bone started out well, everybody wants a black and white answer and it simply isn't that easy, find the set up that works for you that is efficent and ethical.
Agreed
I believe the heavy Arrow theory is very true it is better for breaking bone better for penetration the thing that no one talks about is that the Ashby studies were done with traditional equipment if you're shooting a compound it really doesn't matter yes a little bit heavier Arrow will penetrate better but doesn't matter it's 70 or 75 lb know it doesn't this is basically for guys shooting Trad equipment 40-50 lb bows that's where it matters the lighter your draw weight the heavier used to be going in Arrow
Thank you!
Can you talk about momentum regarding light verses heavy arrows?
Sure 👌
People are also trying to shoot the tac with their hunting gear is what I hear and actually used to do up until 2 years ago, I was only shooting like 510 but still wasn't clearing everything, at least those with heavy arrows are finding out what they actually need to be able to hit their animal, idk and ranch's also planning for the plan b when you hit bone I believe I hear from him
Thanks bro!
6.5 to 7.5 grains per pound of draw weight for modern compound is the awnser to the arrow debate. Anything heavier efficiency of the bow is wasted.
Super nice !🤘👊👍🎯
Thanks man!
I shoot both heavy and lightish 500 grain if I’m shooting something with heavy bone I go heavy and try and smash bones they don’t go far with the front wheels blown out 500 grains with a ironwill will do it too on whitetail so it all depends appropriate ammo for the game your targeting is what’s important but if your in doubt shoot heavy you’ll learn form and technique as you go and you’ll build confidence and then you’ll lighten up your setup as time goes
Great comment, thanks!
Congrats Brandon - best analogy ever....like owning a car that can drive from land into water.🤣
That was crazy 🤣
I am curious. Are they showing up to tac with a 650gr arrow or ate tgey showing up with a bow that doesnt shoot 330 ibo. Because even a lighter arrow out of my bow going to arc something fierce.
Good question 🤔
It's also about having some f. O. C. I noticed my arrows steer better in the wind
Sweet
Alley-oop is thirsty 😅 the fact that there’s a convo about this is frustrating we are divided enough in this country and now that crap plays it’s course in the archery/bow hunting community. Natives hunted with equipment less sophisticated then what we currently have to date, and got the job done. If Dudley in deed ever say “sprinkle less fairy dust” then he’s wrong for that! Attack the idea not the not the person and his idea or view. If your system/setup works execute it on animals and when it fails learning will occur that’s why they say go to 3D shoots that’s the Same reason why 3D shoots now suck IMO everyone worries about what you are shooting, wearing, everyone is a pro and their style or form of shooting is right that’s a tad too much for my liking so many dudes stay clear from all this non-sense by not attending these things.
If it kills it kills fuck a 3d shoot even tho that’s where I’ve heard many influencers tell new archers/bowhunters to go use their new hunting setups so they know if it works. It’s best to learn on foam then animals so if a dude wants to take a 550+ arrow to a TAC let it be a learning lesson will occur that archer will know in a narrow or tight space their arrow might not be the best application out WEST or where ever they hunt. Experience will prevail hopefully and common sense will hopefully occur.
James solid as always my friend one of the most solid convos I’ve heard to date 3 dudes bringing solid and attention to an area where we honestly spend too much worrying about.
Thanks for the comment brotha
Internet gold👍🏻🇺🇸🦌
Thanks!
I watched a 20 year old kid shoot a 450# hog in Colorado with 420 grain Gold Tip arrows tipped with expandable heads and got passthrough on 4 arrows, two zipped through the hog landing in the dirt behind it, and two stuck out the far side and were stopped by the fletching. He was pulling 70#, 30" draw length. #Notacoolaiddrinker
Thanks!
Sorry guys I'm with the heavy arrow guy's. I lost the biggest buck of my life with arrow bouncing off. I wasn't a believer til then. Now I shoot 505 gr with 27 in draw single bevel blowing through both shoulders. Not just the front but both. Fast arrows stop at bone
Dudleys problem is he's not changing minds because all he does is talk to ppl that already agree with him. If he really thinks he is right he should debate someone who disagrees with him. The fact he doesn't shows he doesn't have facts to back up what he's saying
🤔
Dud just did a pod cast with the ranch fairy and took him to school. Dudley is a world class archer and what he doesn't know about about the sport you don't need to know either.
@miltonreeths522 if taking him to school meant he completely avoided the topic and kept pushing the conversation to long distance shooting which is complete opposite of the point of what rf preaches and hunting all together. Also actually dudley got destroyed in the comments on his own channel then yeah I guess he took him to school. Also being a world class archer and an expert in what kills the best is 2 very different things.
@@ep3389 It will be a cold day in h--- when Troy can teach John anything about archery.
@miltonreeths522 that's my point troy doesn't talk about archery, he talks about what setup kills the best and is most practical for most hunters. Dudley teaches people how to have great form and what shoots the most accurate out to 100 yards. The point of bowhunting is to get animals in as close as possible not to see how far you can shoot them
Never seen T-Bone without a hat!
Legend
More shooting,
Have an arrows for t
TAC, moose / elk, deer.
3 sets. Tune for each or buy 2 bows.
Easy peezy
More shooting is always king 🤴
I chose not to shoot TAC because my bow and arrow setup is for hunting elk, not targets. 524gr arrow, my max is 50-60 yards.
I've watched all those Dudley videos and be shoots a heavier arrow(for hunting) than me!
Do TAC next year and just move in if you have to! So fun
@@BowDisciples Plan is next year to get a new bow for hunting and then use my current one for targets.
Sounds awesome 👌
Ranch fairy is more talking towards newer archers and hunters btw. And not tac or tournament guys he says that. It's more of the oh shyt instances. I've had to pass up a buck because I didn't get a good shot opportunity with a 434 grain arrow and a sevr 1.75. I didn't have faith with thw angle presented, were a fixed I would have been good, quartering away was giving and quartering to was given, when he was broadside I had a tree in the way. So that setup cost me an upper. Why shot something that's going to limit me. Im going to state that yes I am a new hunter, and math and physics speaks to me, I haven't killed hundreds of animals and I have a short draw length 26.5", I just see how a heavy arrow and single bevel would work better. Also RF states you don't have to be 650 he says that's the bone breaking threshold that's it. Even the asby reports say shot the heaviest arrow that has a trajectory that your happy with. Most people only pick bits and peices from qhat these guys like RF and the ashby reports say, they also never say you can't kill anything with anything under that that would be ridiculous.
My current arrow now is 510 with a 23% foc that's the good thing about being a short draw guy fic is easy for me to get lol. So I'm not supper heavy by any means, but it give me more confidence and thats all that matters. I did notice once i went up to 510 my arrow fly way better and I mean way better, groups are super tight and it really isn't as slow as one would think. But I say if your new and whitetail hunting I say go as heavy as you can with a trajectory your happy with and if 575 flys great but 610 don't go 575 like RF says. Yall need to watch more than 1 video of RF and put it all together. And these guys with lighter arrows and mechanicals have 30+" draw lengths. And practice is the most important peice honestly but shit happens and why not have a setup foe those moments.
Happy hunting eveyone, hope y'all do good this year.
Build your arrows for the situation you're in period
Agreed
I shoot at pigs in a swamp, every step they make after they get hit puts me at risk of Snakes / Gators when I try to retrieve them. A long shot is 15 yards. I am eyeing up Trifecta 125gr Fixed because of the single bevel rotation. Heavy arrows for sure.
Makes sense, thanks!
Awesome content bud!!
Thanks man!
That much water without Electrolytes is DE-Hydrating, not Hydrating. Your just washing all your minerals out of your system & its distracting as Hell on Video!
New shirts for 2024 TAC in Utah: “I’m just Hydrating” - Bow Disciples
I like the shirt idea
I made shirts for our Crew this year for the Utah TAC - Next year, I just might have that saying on a sleeve or something...
Next time we are in the Hurricane area, I'll hit ya up to go shoot - I announce the Demolition Derby at the Fair down there@@BowDisciples
I hope this video gets lots of views. I as well am sick of this arrow weight crap . I’ve been shooting a roughly 400 gr arrow since I began. It keeps its speed , I shoot quality heads , and have an appropriately tuned bow . I’ve never had a penetration issue . Now I have guys around me who’ve been killing deer forever … suddenly trying to shoot 700gr arrows at sub 200 lb whitetails …. It’s stupid .
Thanks man
Two of my favorite guys. On John Dudly sometimes he makes archery more of a job than recreation..I love to shoot just to shoot. Forget practice.
Thanks Paul!
Ranch Fairy is teaching what he does because he prepares for worst case scenario for average joes who may not be the competition level shooter
John Dudley thinks practice/form will prepare for the perfect shot placement
It’s 2 different schools of thought
Roger that
If Dudley wants to be frustrated he needs to be frustrated with the hunting public and ranch fairy because that’s where 99% of this extreme arrow weight stuff has come from.
Roger that
I wish this would have been out before dud went on his tirade of people at tac with 1000 grain arrows. Dud literally made me go through a lot of heartache just to get back to where I was just with more poundage. I’m a 31.5” draw at 75# my 598gn arrow is going 278fps and it’s a tac driver. Or hammer lol. After dud’s vids I went to a much lighter arrow and was shooting a fixed head at 300+fps and it was wayyyy to fast and unforgiving.
And I know how dud feels he puts out a lot of info and puts his heart into it and when people are standing in front of him shooting like shit and trying to tell him what’s right would be frustrating. I get it 100%
Dud is the man for sure 👌
What alot of these big names never talk about is the fact that you can practice all day long and hit a quarter at 100 yards. And I'm not saying not to be as proficient as possible, and as accurate as you can be.But the second you release you have zero control and if the animal moves you can't control that. You can take the perfect shot, and have something go wrong. That's fantastic that somethings worked forever for someone but when it doesn't then that plan b helps.
I have plenty of friends who need tracking dogs. Unless I've completely missed every animal I've shot has died in eye sight. So I'll keep shooting "heavy" even tho it's literally a basic arrow and a 150 grain head. I didn't have to do anything crazy to get to the weight I'm at. And my bow shoots plenty fast lmao.
Yup, good point!
TBone is the O.G
Legend for sure
Shoot what you want and be responsible. Learn from others mistakes.
Yessir
Ashley lb was 90 and 115 lb. 650 100% bone breaking, 500 is fine except 50% chance to break bone. Ashley is miss interpreted. I shoot around 500g, 31 inch draw, 70lb
Thanks for the comment!
Ashby also emphasized proper arrow flight and stability and shot placement. But that seems to go by the wayside.
I think 500 grains is the perfect middle ground.
Right on
T-bone just spittin real info
Yup!
Archery BEEF??
Shouldn't it be archery 'venison'?
The 5 thousand dollar bow feller looks like he sobered up
He a legend 🙌
👏👍
Thanks!
This is a badass podcast
Thanks man!
Yes sir
@@eliaspuebla9015 Yew!
Hey James what's up bro, how can I buy one of the shirts you have on in this video please!!! My initials are DB the bow disciples backwards like the logo on your shirt front, can you hook me up bro? I'll pay of course but couldn't find any of them ones?
Bowdisciples.com
Which Rage does California kid still use? Hypodermic?
Either hypo or trypan
@BowDisciples The research that I have found is that the shorter the nose on the broadhead, the better it flies with low drag. Stick with the hypos for long distance.
@@traceelliot1360 thanks
Awsome podcast.3 superb archers.well done ✌️🤘👏🤛
Thanks man!
The more u hunt n get better, then drop some grains. But til u get comfortable, ranging, getting close. Why not use a .50 cal lol stuff happens,even when u think ya know🤙
Good analogy 👌