Ian, you might want to visit a camera repairman, to see the tools they make for themselves. Some of them consist of a rubber insert that grips and turns, much as you would need to 'coax' a stuck thumbscrew on a firearm. Pliers would likely mar the knurling, so you're wise to not attempt further disassembly. But a rubber-lined tool, made for the purpose would enable you to go more in-depth with your videos.
Five years past being relevant of course but better late than never eh :D It looks like the screw was damaged previously, I would bet that someone put too much pressure on it when they reinstalled the screw at some point and caused it to seize up on the threads. I think that in such a case the risk is that when you forcefully unscrew it again it could very well break the screw head off or crack it perhaps. You can see the knurling is chipped in two places already which tells me that it has been forcefully handled too many times already and should be left alone. The equivalent piece on the 1910 model has a detent piece installed into the side of the larger screw, which locks the threads to the frame, this may very well have been the case with this model as well but it perhaps was damaged (broken off maybe? resulting in the large chip on the side of the knurling) and therefore nonfunctional. Well, in any case it is just as easy (if in a pinch ;)) to wrap a few layers of electrical tape around the gripping jaws of pliers to protect any surface being gripped from residual damage. Interesting advice about the camera tools, though. I had not thought of the similarity before you mentioned it.
No matter how well made, early autos often seem overly complicated. The Browning short recoil system was a major improvement. Only 1 recoil spring, shorter travel, etc. It's interesting to see what designers thought back then, before everything we now know had been fleshed out (look at some of the contraptions Igor Sikorsky tested when he was developing the helicopter - yikes). FEG has a long history of course, even though now they are mostly known for cheap copies. Frommer sounds like an interesting guy- accountant/banker cum gun designer. Strange paths people take. Great video as always. Thank you
"Not sufficiently obvious that it was out of ammo." I know what they meant-- that it was hard to distinguish being empty from a malfunction--but still, on the face of it, that's a funny thing to say about a gun. Generally speaking, the fact that it won't shoot any more is the place to start your investigation. :)
I would love to see an alternate timeline where this type of early pistols became popular and the standard, i don't know why, i just love the aesthetics
Interesting that you can say it phoenetically like that. Americans also call the AUG the "awg" and the FAL the "fahl" so we are used to bastardizing names to make our lives easier
In Hungarian we usually say everything phonetically if possible. Like we say every letter in MTA (Magyar Tudományos Akadémia) but we don't separate NAV (Nemzeti Adó és Vámhivatal). FÉG is for Fegyver és Gépgyár just for the record.
10:30 I'm thinking that block is the manual _hold-open_ rather than the safety. It's similarly designed and placed like the hold-open on a Roth-Steyr 1907.
Commenting from Russia (Moscow). 1000 thanks for you. Awesome things you make (Yoda style ). Science, history.... combined - it is awesome. And again, man, more guns=more fun. Waiting fot next gun...
I got a 1991a1 my grandfather built the other day from my mom, and it has a full length guide rod, and it comes apart more like a Tokarev, instead of a normal 1911, because of the guide rod and parts he made for it (because he made the guide rod and barrel bushing himself)
nuttex Not really, no. I see Neopets and "counting with colours". The "Education" label is a magical thing. If you're going to attack someone like that, take it elsewhere. This is a civilised community.
+Coitus Ergo Sum "Civilized community" ? On RUclips? Well, I'll end the joke there, this channel's viewer base does seem to be a lot more civil than most channels I watch. I just found your original post funny, since no-one knows what you have in your related videos, like saying "gotta love this funny thing no-one else will understand".
Most of the early automatics look like Star Wars Blasters, and I would not be surprised, given the use of the First Model Bergman Automatic in The Mandalorian, to see the rest of these early-automatics used at some point in Star Wars as Blasters.
@@MatthewBaileyBeAfraid That started long before The Mandalorian. Many blasters in Star Wars are based on real weapons with a bunch of shit attached. Han Solo’s blaster is a C96 Mauser, Jango Fett’s blasters are based on the Maxim-Silverman, one of the Clone Trooper rifles has the grip of a first model FG42, etc. Ian has a video on just the weapons used in A New Hope.
The bolt stops at the rear of its travel and the barrel returns forward. When the barrel clears to front of the empty car,e it is ejected - before the bolt is released to chamber a new round.
Forgotten Weapons Ejected how? does the ejector travel forward with the barrel? With the case being effectively stationary, something has to move in the gun...
Typically a spring-loaded ejector in the left wall of the receiver. It gets pushed flush by the bolt and barrel, and pops out to eject when the bolt is locked back and the barrel is forward.
I know, I was just being sarcastic. I have enjoyed studying the design & engineering of pistols since I was about 12 walking a couple miles to the huge SF library to marvel at the wide variety of gun designs.
You know Ian, I'd I was a millionaire, is give The Cody Firearms Museum a run for their money. Until then, I'll have to be content to watch your videos on guns I can't afford!
IT struck me, today with my umteenth watch of this cool video, this gun looks like something Elmer Fudd would pull on Buggs after his shotgun barrel banana pealed because Buggs had his fingers in the barrels.
Yeah, but how can it eject if the bolt is locked (?) to the barrel till it hits the rear stop? Or does the bolt go back on its own and the barrel only go back when pushed by the user? If so, how do you clear a misfire safely?
First both barrel and bold travel back, locked together. Then barrel unlocks and goes forward. Ejector is under spring tension I guess, so it ejects when the barrel clears the ejection port enough. When barrel hits the full forward position, it trips the bolt catch and then the bolt can move forward and pick new cartridge. So basically it eject when the barrel is moving forward, not when bolt is moving backward.
Assuming it's a locked breech long recoil, my major problem is how you safely extract a misfire?! I would not want to be pushing back on the barrel using a tool up the spout!
Nice craftsmanship but rather poor ergonomics. It would have been easy to make it striker fired, do away with the hammer and allow for a higher, more comfortable grip. This system is easily scalable to use more powerful ammo and acomodate any military requirements in that aspect.
While I have always had a great love for the M1911, I secretly always wanted to get my hands on one of those goofy looking guns, not necessarily that particular model, a Fromer Stop would be OK I guess. Perhaps some day I shall come upon one. I have owned several FEG products, most post communism collapse that I purchased back in the 80's when the market was flooded with guns that looked very much like the PPK. Wish many times that I had kept just one of them, and, of course my Luger, Damn I wish I had kept that....
I just love all of the little detent springs and wholly unnecessary machining that went into the the Frommers. A+ for effort,as if it's built to wow other engineers and providing bragging rights. Maybe they're designed for rich, fat Officers to whom all the extra cost wouldn't matter.
8:08 I was waiting for you to get "Frommer Finger." It's like "Garand Thumb" but more esoteric.
Looks like a blaster from the Phantom Menace.
pretty sure they used a bunch of these odd-looking guns and modified em a bit to look for sci-fy, example. Han Solos Blaster is a C96 Mauser
Ian, you might want to visit a camera repairman, to see the tools they make for themselves. Some of them consist of a rubber insert that grips and turns, much as you would need to 'coax' a stuck thumbscrew on a firearm. Pliers would likely mar the knurling, so you're wise to not attempt further disassembly. But a rubber-lined tool, made for the purpose would enable you to go more in-depth with your videos.
Five years past being relevant of course but better late than never eh :D It looks like the screw was damaged previously, I would bet that someone put too much pressure on it when they reinstalled the screw at some point and caused it to seize up on the threads. I think that in such a case the risk is that when you forcefully unscrew it again it could very well break the screw head off or crack it perhaps. You can see the knurling is chipped in two places already which tells me that it has been forcefully handled too many times already and should be left alone. The equivalent piece on the 1910 model has a detent piece installed into the side of the larger screw, which locks the threads to the frame, this may very well have been the case with this model as well but it perhaps was damaged (broken off maybe? resulting in the large chip on the side of the knurling) and therefore nonfunctional. Well, in any case it is just as easy (if in a pinch ;)) to wrap a few layers of electrical tape around the gripping jaws of pliers to protect any surface being gripped from residual damage. Interesting advice about the camera tools, though. I had not thought of the similarity before you mentioned it.
No matter how well made, early autos often seem overly complicated. The Browning short recoil system was a major improvement. Only 1 recoil spring, shorter travel, etc. It's interesting to see what designers thought back then, before everything we now know had been fleshed out (look at some of the contraptions Igor Sikorsky tested when he was developing the helicopter - yikes). FEG has a long history of course, even though now they are mostly known for cheap copies. Frommer sounds like an interesting guy- accountant/banker cum gun designer. Strange paths people take. Great video as always. Thank you
yup it's much more difficult to make one part do multiple things than just adding a new part everytime you need to do something
"Not sufficiently obvious that it was out of ammo." I know what they meant-- that it was hard to distinguish being empty from a malfunction--but still, on the face of it, that's a funny thing to say about a gun. Generally speaking, the fact that it won't shoot any more is the place to start your investigation. :)
"Why aren't you shooting, soldier?"
"I don't know sir!"
"Maybe it's because, you are out of ammo! Your weapon is clear, get off the range!"
@@SharpForceTrauma the oiop
Such an american phrase.
Counting was a new invention in 1901 and not known to commoners 🤠
I would love to see an alternate timeline where this type of early pistols became popular and the standard, i don't know why, i just love the aesthetics
Gun Jesus back again with another awesome vid
It's funny they said that since revolvers give no indicator they're empty
I think it's just because it's one damn ugly pistol... Even the military will turn down a good gun if it's this ugly.
planescaped To me this gun looks great, I don’t know what it is
Vulpes Inculta ur wrong, its so bad. it looks like someone put it together the wrong way lol
California compliant! No removable mag and only 10 rounds😜
Great review!
Agreed, it's a weird looking gun. But cool too
I am a "simple" man. I see Hungarian stuff, I upvote. Also, I see Ian, I upvote... why I can't like the video second time?
btw, Ian. You can say it like "faig" or something like that, we also call it this way. "FÉG"
Interesting that you can say it phoenetically like that. Americans also call the AUG the "awg" and the FAL the "fahl" so we are used to bastardizing names to make our lives easier
In Hungarian we usually say everything phonetically if possible. Like we say every letter in MTA (Magyar Tudományos Akadémia) but we don't separate NAV (Nemzeti Adó és Vámhivatal). FÉG is for Fegyver és Gépgyár just for the record.
I always pronounce FAL as "F-A-L", phonetically.
ELJEN A HAZA
I don't care how goofy and strange it looks. It is an interesting gun worthy of a collector.
12 minutes passed already? Sheesh time flew!
It looks like a Ray Gun from some 1930's serial.
The Laughing Hyenas *cereal
I actually laughed though because I thought of a Ted Cruz: Zodiac Killer joke lol
Notorious Incognito *serial. He means serials like Flash Gordon, not cereals like Trix! Honest mistake!
FunkyFreshVideosXD I don't know much about the 70s lol
Notorious Incognito ,
The classic serials that use these are from the 1930's. They are fascinating art. Their version of the future - our past by now.
This would be a neat companion to a Model 8 Remington. Two different designers but same basic idea.
That fade effect at 2:38 was terrifying
Apart from Fromer and Mars are there any other long recoil pistols?
Your mom
Oof
10:30 I'm thinking that block is the manual _hold-open_ rather than the safety. It's similarly designed and placed like the hold-open on a Roth-Steyr 1907.
Commenting from Russia (Moscow). 1000 thanks for you. Awesome things you make (Yoda style ). Science, history.... combined - it is awesome. And again, man, more guns=more fun. Waiting fot next gun...
"And if i use my disassembly tool.." AKA Ball Point Pen lol
Mike Potts you must be new to Forgotten Weapons.
goingtoscotland relatively but i usually only watch for the history of the weapon, not much for the mechanics unless its something odd like this
Long Recoil on a pistol.. crazy
I honestly wouldn't be particularly surprised if I found out that Ian's EDC is his Roth Steyr haha
I got a 1991a1 my grandfather built the other day from my mom, and it has a full length guide rod, and it comes apart more like a Tokarev, instead of a normal 1911, because of the guide rod and parts he made for it (because he made the guide rod and barrel bushing himself)
X_Fox Could you make a small video on it? I'll watch it if you post it.
Ian C. Yeah, I'll upload it when I have a chance to upload it
Damien Dimone my gun is actually a 1991a1, which is a sort of tribute to the 1911, the one I have is a compact model
Gotta love the Related videos...
Gotta love that name XD
:3
nuttex
Not really, no. I see Neopets and "counting with colours". The "Education" label is a magical thing.
If you're going to attack someone like that, take it elsewhere. This is a civilised community.
+Coitus Ergo Sum "Civilized community" ? On RUclips?
Well, I'll end the joke there, this channel's viewer base does seem to be a lot more civil than most channels I watch.
I just found your original post funny, since no-one knows what you have in your related videos, like saying "gotta love this funny thing no-one else will understand".
Algiz
The Related section of a RUclips video can be a strange, mysterious thing. It's different for everyone, and that's what makes it magical.
Looks like something out of Star Wars
it actually really does now that you said that
well han solos blaster is heavily influenced by a broom handle mauser
That's because it actually is a bull-barrelled Mauser C96 with greeblies attached.
It's literally a C96 with a german marksman scope glued to the side and an MG-34 flash hider on the front.
Its the gun Jango Fett’s pistols are modeled after
Perfect CCW
Looks very similar to my old Diana gat gun I had as a kid.
Fromer? As in the, "Sausage King of Chicago?"
No, as in Rudolf Frommer
Ben M Abe anyone anyone Froman is the sausage king of Chicago. no need to get snooty
Snooty?
Snotty.
(and good god that's a very complex 1901 designed pistol)
No, snooty.
you shouldn't be shooting anybody with your bad knee Ian
I am going to want to buy this. When is the auction?
Next week. The link is the first line in the description text.
Forgotten Weapons Okay thank you
David Hagerott Happy buying!
Good luck!!
>Disassembly tool
Ian that's just a pen.
Ian, did you get to replace the hammer spring in the 1910?
Did you get that operating properly?
The otherworldly shape of this thing looks begging to be thrust into a star wars movie.
Interesting gun. I just heard of this and your video was very informative.
Interesting mechanism, well made, sad it wasn't acceptable, might have been a fun gun to shoot if 8mm had been accepted.
Looks like hungarian blaster :D
Most of the early automatics look like Star Wars Blasters, and I would not be surprised, given the use of the First Model Bergman Automatic in The Mandalorian, to see the rest of these early-automatics used at some point in Star Wars as Blasters.
@@MatthewBaileyBeAfraid That started long before The Mandalorian. Many blasters in Star Wars are based on real weapons with a bunch of shit attached. Han Solo’s blaster is a C96 Mauser, Jango Fett’s blasters are based on the Maxim-Silverman, one of the Clone Trooper rifles has the grip of a first model FG42, etc. Ian has a video on just the weapons used in A New Hope.
Is it just the way the contours direct my gaze, or is the bore axis incredibly high up?
0:24 “this dATeS”
This gun made it into destiny 2 it’s called the Drang
If the barrel travels the whole way, how does it eject a spent case?!
The bolt stops at the rear of its travel and the barrel returns forward. When the barrel clears to front of the empty car,e it is ejected - before the bolt is released to chamber a new round.
Forgotten Weapons Ejected how? does the ejector travel forward with the barrel? With the case being effectively stationary, something has to move in the gun...
Typically a spring-loaded ejector in the left wall of the receiver. It gets pushed flush by the bolt and barrel, and pops out to eject when the bolt is locked back and the barrel is forward.
Very interesting pistol this.
Will you do the Frommer Stop?
It's not a looker but still pretty cool
"..this..." what?? 00:24
Epic voice crack.
Its that one pistole you keep reserved for firing at estranged extended family members only.
R.I.A sold one of these for $42,500 bucks. That's a lot of money for an ugly pistol.
it's for the historical value, like old ugly paintings. nobody getting this to use it for self defense or whatever
I know, I was just being sarcastic. I have enjoyed studying the design & engineering of pistols since I was about 12 walking a couple miles to the huge SF library to marvel at the wide variety of gun designs.
11:16 i was expecting a joke about this being a suppressor host XD
Reminds me of the Mars Pistol design-wise.
How many of these do you usually film in one day?
You know Ian, I'd I was a millionaire, is give The Cody Firearms Museum a run for their money. Until then, I'll have to be content to watch your videos on guns I can't afford!
And today, we have a Frommer, model of 1901.
*dates*
Now this back...
Question: what is going on at 2:37? Love your videos, by the way.
I would not call it pretty, but it does have something alike it. Certainly a weird one! :)
How much are one of those universal disassembly tools?
Do the xm8 please, i think it's one of the coolest 5.56 rifle
Your wish has been granted (about 3 months from this post).
Any idea on the ballistics?
IT struck me, today with my umteenth watch of this cool video, this gun looks like something Elmer Fudd would pull on Buggs after his shotgun barrel banana pealed because Buggs had his fingers in the barrels.
Funny you say it’s massive compared to the 1911 39.oz when the Frommer is 22.9 oz. I guess it depends how you visually compare them.
Dat high bore axis....
Nice Hungarian Pistol!😀🔫🇭🇺
Check the Hungarian Danuvia. Pls! I think its worth to make a video of that pistol! :)
Clicked because I need to know where the ammo goes.
Flash Gordon had one of those
BF1 pilot here
This gun would have been much more interesting in 7.63 Mauser.
Its nice but I like the frommer stop more.
What about the ejection system?
Yeah, but how can it eject if the bolt is locked (?) to the barrel till it hits the rear stop? Or does the bolt go back on its own and the barrel only go back when pushed by the user? If so, how do you clear a misfire safely?
First both barrel and bold travel back, locked together. Then barrel unlocks and goes forward. Ejector is under spring tension I guess, so it ejects when the barrel clears the ejection port enough. When barrel hits the full forward position, it trips the bolt catch and then the bolt can move forward and pick new cartridge.
So basically it eject when the barrel is moving forward, not when bolt is moving backward.
Assuming it's a locked breech long recoil, my major problem is how you safely extract a misfire?! I would not want to be pushing back on the barrel using a tool up the spout!
Hmm, another left-hand threaded muzzle nut....
$45kUSD und das ist meine!
Squeaky Frommer? no, wait...
Fun Fact:
In the star wars univers there is an gun called the Relby k23.
It is diffenling based on this gun.
I use this gun in battlefield 1 :)
No you don't, the Frommer 1901 is not present in Battlefield 1.
+Mooning Cat you know what I mean -.-
TBag [Epic Battlefield 1 Content] No, I do not. You ain't making any sense, lad.
+nuttex you have two variants of the frommer stop pistol in BF1.. how is it hard to understand that I use one of them ?
+smiley grin I saw the word 'frommer' and thought it was the same gun. nevermind then...
sci fi lazer gun
Those olod guns are cool. some of them are pleasing to look at and some are just ugly. Todays guns look just like eachother.
Hello!
OH that's pretty
Pretty ugly....
Anyway, this is a Ungarns
It's pretty ugly, yes, so ugly it kinda looks good.
Sᴏᴄɪᴇᴛʏ Pʀᴏʙʟᴇᴍs Sᴀᴛɪʀᴇ Much like the F2000
Ian C. Exactly, that's a good example. And the IMI Tar 21 too.
Nice craftsmanship but rather poor ergonomics. It would have been easy to make it striker fired, do away with the hammer and allow for a higher, more comfortable grip. This system is easily scalable to use more powerful ammo and acomodate any military requirements in that aspect.
Strangely enough, despote being an ideal.system for a semiautomatic rifle or LMG, to my knowledge, Frommer never did design a rifle with this system.
What does Ian do in his spare time? I think his wife must be resigned to being a "gun widow"!
I didn't find english description....
hu.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VD-01
If Dr. Seuss designed a gun for a who...
Ruger .22 stole it ??
interesting gun.
Love to shoot it.
This pistol reminds me of a Nambu on steroids.
Я таким машину бензином заправляю.
While I have always had a great love for the M1911, I secretly always wanted to get my hands on one of those goofy looking guns, not necessarily that particular model, a Fromer Stop would be OK I guess. Perhaps some day I shall come upon one. I have owned several FEG products, most post communism collapse that I purchased back in the 80's when the market was flooded with guns that looked very much like the PPK. Wish many times that I had kept just one of them, and, of course my Luger, Damn I wish I had kept that....
Уащщщ....хлам...
I just love all of the little detent springs and wholly unnecessary machining that went into the the Frommers. A+ for effort,as if it's built to wow other engineers and providing bragging rights. Maybe they're designed for rich, fat Officers to whom all the extra cost wouldn't matter.
A magyar fejlesztéseket sehol nem mtatják, szinte semmiben sincsenek ott, pedig versenyezhetnének a többivel!
Röhej, hogy innen értesülünk, milyen fegyvereket gyártottak őseink és a FÉG úgyszintén.
Almost the Battlefield 1 star. Colloquially known as G18 in game. Dumb.
It's pronounced 'Budaphest", old boy...