The RF5C164 works pretty much identically to the SNES' SPC700 chip. They're both chips that make use of music module files that contain instrument samples.
@@Plasmariel ironically I kind of like the rf5c better because of no shitty lowpass filter all over everything lol, on snes you have to treble boost the shit out of your samples to try to get around the gaussian filtering making your samples super muffled, that doesn't seem to be a problem with the rf5c because there's no filtering to begin with, no filtering = no problem :P
Quartz Quadrant's baseline and drums might give it the edge here for Best Mega CD chiptunes, but Wacky Workbench has the delicious pads. This entire Sonic CD soundtrack (redbook + Ricoh RF5C164) is such a great snapshot of electronic music of the era. They even used some signature vocal samples from popular US house/hip hop. It felt like the work of young composers up to their necks in house/electro of the day -- and the popular synths and hardware that electronic musicians were using. These were composers working in the same building as the main team. And the game has a similar 90s spirit. So the tunes really fit. ... and that's why the altered redbook tracks for the US Sonic CD did not fit. Not only do they clash with the Past tracks, but they don't match the game's spirit and feel.
There's some really clever programming here. Thanks for throwing this up. I was looking for examples of music through the sound chip on the sega CD and this was perfect.
Of course Stardust Speedway is the famous one, but I've always had a soft spot for Quartz Quadrant. I wonder how many other Mega-CD games make exclusive use of the Ricoh chip in certain sections as this one does?
@@Nikku4211 I'm sure some use the SN's noise channel but among the 18 channels plus Redbook, the SN channels just have the least to offer so it's understandable that barely anything would bother.
Silpheed uses a combo of the Yamaha and Ricoh chips for the music. I would have loved to see someone make full use of all three sound chips for some amazing chiptune madness!
It seems that a lot of the CD Past track use instrument from the KORG Wavestation. EDIT: It's mostly 01/w, D-70, JD880 and some other stuff I can't remember from the top of my head. Also, CD doesn't use the M1 at all, so you can put that rumour to rest. DOUBLE EDIT: Heh, this is a funny post, whilst mostly correct it turns out CD does use M1 in the form of the Korg T2! It's used in Wacky Workbench Past quite a bit.
Crazy Toy Box was the original name for "Wacky Workbench." It's heard via vocoder voice in the "Present" stage, not in "Bad Future" stated in the section of The Cutting Room Floor titled "Prerelease: Sonic the Hedgehog (Sega CD)."
I'm surprised to realize that all of the past tracks were compressed to PCM from their original DA (Redbook) audio. The only past Redbook Audio cue that exists at the moment is for Palmtree Panic, a.k.a. "Salad Plain." I sure wish that one day SEGA released all of the past tracks from demo tapes.
now i really want to see a stereo oscilloscope view. (especially for collision chaos, i love the panning) the past music was probably the only time that a sonic game came close to snes soundchip territory. although i think it'll be a b*tch to get it working on an actual snes though. (I've seen some ports of past music to the snes, and they do come close quality wide, although the filtering of the snes muffles everything.)
it was underused sadly due to the system also being able to play CD Audio music (as this same game does in the "present" and "good/bad future" levels). This is probably the best example of it on its own, but Silpheed and Popful Mail (and the intro of Cosmic Fantasy Stories) use it in conjunction with the Mega Drive / Genesis' Yamaha YM2612 FM synthesizer for some impressive 14-channel music.
Rename for the past zones Palm tree panic: Seaside panic zone Collision chaos: bouncing chaos zone Tidal tempest: ruined temple zone Quartz quadrant : echoing quartz zone Wacky workbench: rustic workbench zone Stardust speedway: funky speedway zone (Or jazzed speedway zone) Metallic madness: Vile madness zone
I have a burning question. The Ricoh sound chip used in the Sega CD has 8 channels, yet only 7 are used for past tracks in Sonic CD. One of the channels, specifically Channel 6, is never used. Why is that?
I find it interesting that there is an apparent lack of any sort of interpolation on these tracks at all. I wonder if this is a limitation of the chip itself or a choice made by the developers.
I wonder sometimes why sega decided to use the interal audio chip instead having cd audio quality on my head here's a silly theory since it's past, they decided to use the internal audio chip for two reasons to use it since (almost) no sega cd game even use it (iirc) because it's past bruh and you know past means there was no cd periphals for any consoles, only chipsound
Redbook audio is very limited, it prevent to load data during reading. Games like Lunar Eternal Blue or Popful Mail are almost impossible to develop by using redbook audio. Plus, redbook audio is lazy tech. The right question is rather this : "I wonder sometimes why sega decided to use the redbook audio instead of using an internal audio chip ?" YM2612 and Ricoh RF5C164 are a good duo for producing real chiptune, not lazy music simply recorded on a CD.
@@CerealKiller Oh yeah, you buy a Ferrari to drive as if you had a Prius. The works involved to compose music change according to your musical instrument. Chip like YM2612 or others video game music synthesizer are musical instruments that require a certain way of composing music... like "real" instruments ! People like Follin Brothers, Koshiro, Martin Galway, Jeroen Tel and so on... are undoubtedly misguided nerds.
The Sega CD version of Silpheed uses both the Sega CD's Ricoh PCM chip and the Genesis' Yamaha FM chip together for its music. The Sega CD version of Popful Mail in some of its music even uses the Sega CD Ricoh PCM / Genesis Yamaha FM / Genesis TI PSG combo. On the 32X, Chaotix uses the 32X Hitachi PWM / Genesis Yamaha FM / Genesis TI PSG combo for its music, and theoretically the "Sega CD 32X platform" could get silly with the 32X Hitachi PWM / Sega CD Ricoh PCM / Genesis Yamaha FM / Genesis TI PSG combo for music, and I'd like to hear that done :P
I wonder if there's a way to play sounds such as these from the chip and record them using something like a VST? would that be something possible? I do know there's a thing like that for the Genesis ..
Streamed audio is a continuous recorded audio file / *stream* like a CD Audio track (like normal music), such as the ones used for the rest of the music in Sonic CD... ...whereas these "past" themes are sample-based chiptunes / tracker music, meaning that each instrument is stored as one note on the CD, and then there's notation data (a programmed sequence) that tells the Sega CD's sound chip what notes to play on what instrument when. The tracker method drastically reduces used space, which is why on ROM cartridge-based systems like the normal Genesis and the SNES, *only* it was normally used. But whereas the SNES is sample-based like the Sega CD when playing tracker music, the normal Genesis mostly synthesizes and generates sound itself (the notation data additionally contains the synthesizer settings - *patches* - for the instruments) but it still plays samples on the side like drums, voice snippets and of course the Sega chant when Sonic games boot.
Why did they bother using the PCM channels at all for the music? It just doesn't make a lot of sense, considering the rest of the game uses uncompressed CD Audio.
CDs aren't unlimited in storage. They actually ran out of space. Why else does games like Final Fantasy X for the PS2 have almost all of their music synthesized live? Why isn't every cutscene an FMV? They simply couldn't fit it all onto a 4.7 Gigabyte DVD. Now imagine the problem of Sonic CD and trying to fit everything onto a 650 Megabyte CD.Yeah - They totally ran out of room. And besides, most people didn't notice the music was being synthesized live, for either game... so what's the problem? :)
I always interpreted it as SEGA saying “fuck you” to Nintendo’s sound chip, that sampled synths are a thing of the past. It could also simply be for stylistic reasons, the lower fidelity makes it sound older, as if you went to the past.
I guess that makes sense. I just find it jarring that they went from uncompressed, realistic sounding music to what's obviously highly-compressed samples. Same with Castlevania Rondo of Blood, where there's a few short fanfare themes that use the PCE's wavetable synth.
@@zanegandini5350 For Rondo of Blood, it was used as a way to have music while the game is loading... It actually did a lot to make transitions more seamless rather than how jarring it can be when Redbook tracks switch with a notable gap in the audio.
![Tim Follin - “Time Trax (PAL MD/Genesis)” Full Soundtrack [Improved Oscilloscope View]](/img/1.gif)
I can finally see how the hues looks!
The Hue-Matinee!
@@flygonbreloom they meant the voice in the beginning of stardust speedway's past
The RF5C164 works pretty much identically to the SNES' SPC700 chip. They're both chips that make use of music module files that contain instrument samples.
They also both have 8 PCM channels and stereo
@@Plasmariel I like your SPC music :)
@@RWL2012 Thanks!
@@Plasmariel ironically I kind of like the rf5c better because of no shitty lowpass filter all over everything lol, on snes you have to treble boost the shit out of your samples to try to get around the gaussian filtering making your samples super muffled, that doesn't seem to be a problem with the rf5c because there's no filtering to begin with, no filtering = no problem :P
@@jlewwis1995 True, but the optimal is by modifying the interpolation to Sinc and removing the Low-Pass on SNES. Try it.
Quartz Quadrant's baseline and drums might give it the edge here for Best Mega CD chiptunes, but Wacky Workbench has the delicious pads.
This entire Sonic CD soundtrack (redbook + Ricoh RF5C164) is such a great snapshot of electronic music of the era.
They even used some signature vocal samples from popular US house/hip hop. It felt like the work of young composers up to their necks in house/electro of the day -- and the popular synths and hardware that electronic musicians were using.
These were composers working in the same building as the main team.
And the game has a similar 90s spirit. So the tunes really fit.
... and that's why the altered redbook tracks for the US Sonic CD did not fit. Not only do they clash with the Past tracks, but they don't match the game's spirit and feel.
There's some really clever programming here. Thanks for throwing this up. I was looking for examples of music through the sound chip on the sega CD and this was perfect.
could a human even play the drums in collision chaos
You mean palm tree panic past
Zach Hill probably could
Considering these were translated for the Mega CD, I’d say yes.
quartz quadrants drums scare me more
That would be chaotix
This is so cool and I love the Sonic CD soundtrack.
I always figured the past music was CD audio as well
Of course Stardust Speedway is the famous one, but I've always had a soft spot for Quartz Quadrant.
I wonder how many other Mega-CD games make exclusive use of the Ricoh chip in certain sections as this one does?
I've always really liked Quartz Quadrant myself!
I wonder how many Mega-CD games make use of the SN76489 at all.
@@Nikku4211 I'm sure some use the SN's noise channel but among the 18 channels plus Redbook, the SN channels just have the least to offer so it's understandable that barely anything would bother.
Silpheed uses a combo of the Yamaha and Ricoh chips for the music. I would have loved to see someone make full use of all three sound chips for some amazing chiptune madness!
Quartz Quadrant for the win!
Nice oscilloscope view of the Ricoh PCM soundtrack of Sonic CD!😄🤩😎👌
Sad this chip wasn't used to its full potential in the life of the SEGA CD.
The Sega Saturn sound chip wasn't used that much as well. It had support for 32 channels of audio, and the channels can be either FM or PCM.
3:33 That sample was also used in _Hebereke's Popoon_ (albeit lower in quality) and _Hebereke' Popoitto._
I really like all these tracks
I really like you
@@kencover2040 in what way?
@@SuperJet_Spade I like your channel???
@@kencover2040 okay 👌🏽
Hi Spade!😄
It seems that a lot of the CD Past track use instrument from the KORG Wavestation.
EDIT: It's mostly 01/w, D-70, JD880 and some other stuff I can't remember from the top of my head. Also, CD doesn't use the M1 at all, so you can put that rumour to rest.
DOUBLE EDIT: Heh, this is a funny post, whilst mostly correct it turns out CD does use M1 in the form of the Korg T2! It's used in Wacky Workbench Past quite a bit.
KromidenX this post is oldish now (seems like the Roland D-70 is used along with the D-50 and also the X-Static Goldmine (MM Past uses it))
@@ChilliusVGM ohhh I was looking for the lossless samples, thanks for the info
Also Zero-G Datafile Two and East West Dance Industrial 1
PotatoBoss Im on about the past tracks only.
ChilliusVGM yeah, these were used in the past tracks lol
Crazy Toy Box was the original name for "Wacky Workbench." It's heard via vocoder voice in the "Present" stage, not in "Bad Future" stated in the section of The Cutting Room Floor titled "Prerelease: Sonic the Hedgehog (Sega CD)."
is it just me who likes to watch the bass wobbling and wiggling...? :P
I'm surprised to realize that all of the past tracks were compressed to PCM from their original DA (Redbook) audio. The only past Redbook Audio cue that exists at the moment is for Palmtree Panic, a.k.a. "Salad Plain." I sure wish that one day SEGA released all of the past tracks from demo tapes.
now i really want to see a stereo oscilloscope view. (especially for collision chaos, i love the panning)
the past music was probably the only time that a sonic game came close to snes soundchip territory.
although i think it'll be a b*tch to get it working on an actual snes though. (I've seen some ports of past music to the snes, and they do come close quality wide, although the filtering of the snes muffles everything.)
i love this sound procesor of the mega cd
it was underused sadly due to the system also being able to play CD Audio music (as this same game does in the "present" and "good/bad future" levels). This is probably the best example of it on its own, but Silpheed and Popful Mail (and the intro of Cosmic Fantasy Stories) use it in conjunction with the Mega Drive / Genesis' Yamaha YM2612 FM synthesizer for some impressive 14-channel music.
Rename for the past zones
Palm tree panic: Seaside panic zone
Collision chaos: bouncing chaos zone
Tidal tempest: ruined temple zone
Quartz quadrant : echoing quartz zone
Wacky workbench: rustic workbench zone
Stardust speedway: funky speedway zone
(Or jazzed speedway zone)
Metallic madness: Vile madness zone
Donut Plains Zone...
Eggman Castle Zone...
Metallic Madness is well... Madness!
Developing Madness*
i dont know why tidal tempest Gives me a Nintendo DS vibe? XD
and then Quartz Quadrent gives me a Commodore Amiga Vibe
i can hear Quartz Quadrant as an amiga song
could probably be an amiga song with the help of software mixing
Very cool! Unfortunately we dont have a RF5C164 tracker but someone can do a tracker using the RF5 chip. Btw cool!
And furnace tracker came along
@@mahbodkaramoozian6409 yeah
@@YgorG Can u do more remixes with this sound chip I really want to see it in action again
@@thetriggeredone3461 maybe
@@YgorG Nice
I have a burning question. The Ricoh sound chip used in the Sega CD has 8 channels, yet only 7 are used for past tracks in Sonic CD. One of the channels, specifically Channel 6, is never used. Why is that?
Sound effects.
@@flygonbreloom I never thought of that...
@@ibcr8zy603, so that channel wouldn't be interrupted when the sound is played.
@@PKSuperStar256 they could have used the Genesis DAC for the sound effects
@@thetriggeredone3461, yeah. But hey, ROM hacks and homebrews can fix that.
I find it interesting that there is an apparent lack of any sort of interpolation on these tracks at all. I wonder if this is a limitation of the chip itself or a choice made by the developers.
I wonder sometimes why sega decided to use the interal audio chip instead having cd audio quality
on my head here's a silly theory
since it's past, they decided to use the internal audio chip for two reasons
to use it since (almost) no sega cd game even use it (iirc)
because it's past bruh and you know past means there was no cd periphals for any consoles, only chipsound
it was because the music took up too much space on the disk already so they had to compress the past songs
Redbook audio is very limited, it prevent to load data during reading. Games like Lunar Eternal Blue or Popful Mail are almost impossible to develop by using redbook audio. Plus, redbook audio is lazy tech. The right question is rather this : "I wonder sometimes why sega decided to use the redbook audio instead of using an internal audio chip ?"
YM2612 and Ricoh RF5C164 are a good duo for producing real chiptune, not lazy music simply recorded on a CD.
@@CerealKiller Oh yeah, you buy a Ferrari to drive as if you had a Prius. The works involved to compose music change according to your musical instrument. Chip like YM2612 or others video game music synthesizer are musical instruments that require a certain way of composing music... like "real" instruments ! People like Follin Brothers, Koshiro, Martin Galway, Jeroen Tel and so on... are undoubtedly misguided nerds.
@@sagrat6235 huh u speaking facts brother u speaking facts
Wacky Workberch and Stardust Speedyway Past themes are the best!
Agreed! 👍
I'm curious, what do the 712 prototype's SNCBNK files look like?
Would it be possible to play these in a music tracker such as Schism Tracker, since this is very similar to Amiga mod tracker music?
Good question. For the Mega CD itself? I don't have the answer.
Could the Ricoh sound chip be combined with the Genesis and maybe even 32x channel?
The Sega CD version of Silpheed uses both the Sega CD's Ricoh PCM chip and the Genesis' Yamaha FM chip together for its music. The Sega CD version of Popful Mail in some of its music even uses the Sega CD Ricoh PCM / Genesis Yamaha FM / Genesis TI PSG combo. On the 32X, Chaotix uses the 32X Hitachi PWM / Genesis Yamaha FM / Genesis TI PSG combo for its music, and theoretically the "Sega CD 32X platform" could get silly with the 32X Hitachi PWM / Sega CD Ricoh PCM / Genesis Yamaha FM / Genesis TI PSG combo for music, and I'd like to hear that done :P
I had this same question!! I would like to see a homebrew do this
Quartz Quadrant sounds like the beat for a hip hop song
I wonder if there's a way to play sounds such as these from the chip and record them using something like a VST? would that be something possible? I do know there's a thing like that for the Genesis ..
sounds like a ds game actually
Ahh Dancing Thin Lines
METILLAC MADNESS MY JAM
SALAD PLAINS
OH, BOI
@Keoko Murdock - Matthew Saldivar COMMIN SOON
COMMIN SOON’
What software did you use for this?
I think I used SidWizPlus for this particular printout - you can find it here: github.com/maxim-zhao/SidWizPlus
Where did you extracted each channel?
I used a tool called Multidumper to dump each channel from the .vgm
@@flygonbreloom Thank you! That'll be very useful for N163 FamiTracker stuff.
are the present and future tracks able to be ripped in any way?
SiIvaGunner would be more helpful there than me.
wait how did u get the oscilloscope
MM Past cool
now do us soundtrack next oh boy
@KromidenX It does, though it's only because the US Soundtrack didn't replace the JP/EU Past tracks due to the complexity.
@KromidenX Not really.
I only see 7 channels and I thought it has 8 PCM channels
One of the channels is unused by these tracks.
@@CerealKiller Probably.
What's streamed audio ?
Streamed audio is a continuous recorded audio file / *stream* like a CD Audio track (like normal music), such as the ones used for the rest of the music in Sonic CD...
...whereas these "past" themes are sample-based chiptunes / tracker music, meaning that each instrument is stored as one note on the CD, and then there's notation data (a programmed sequence) that tells the Sega CD's sound chip what notes to play on what instrument when.
The tracker method drastically reduces used space, which is why on ROM cartridge-based systems like the normal Genesis and the SNES, *only* it was normally used.
But whereas the SNES is sample-based like the Sega CD when playing tracker music, the normal Genesis mostly synthesizes and generates sound itself (the notation data additionally contains the synthesizer settings - *patches* - for the instruments) but it still plays samples on the side like drums, voice snippets and of course the Sega chant when Sonic games boot.
Why did they bother using the PCM channels at all for the music? It just doesn't make a lot of sense, considering the rest of the game uses uncompressed CD Audio.
CDs aren't unlimited in storage. They actually ran out of space.
Why else does games like Final Fantasy X for the PS2 have almost all of their music synthesized live? Why isn't every cutscene an FMV?
They simply couldn't fit it all onto a 4.7 Gigabyte DVD.
Now imagine the problem of Sonic CD and trying to fit everything onto a 650 Megabyte CD.Yeah - They totally ran out of room. And besides, most people didn't notice the music was being synthesized live, for either game... so what's the problem? :)
I always interpreted it as SEGA saying “fuck you” to Nintendo’s sound chip, that sampled synths are a thing of the past.
It could also simply be for stylistic reasons, the lower fidelity makes it sound older, as if you went to the past.
Probably due to space limitations, but I always imagined since it's for the past that the music was just going back in time as well, lol!
I guess that makes sense. I just find it jarring that they went from uncompressed, realistic sounding music to what's obviously highly-compressed samples. Same with Castlevania Rondo of Blood, where there's a few short fanfare themes that use the PCE's wavetable synth.
@@zanegandini5350 For Rondo of Blood, it was used as a way to have music while the game is loading... It actually did a lot to make transitions more seamless rather than how jarring it can be when Redbook tracks switch with a notable gap in the audio.
I thought these were streamed audio too! TIL I guess
Palmtree Panic (Salad Plain) was CD audio in the prototype (it's here on YT) but they realised there was no space left on the CD I think!
moni
Sega CD PCM...