Jim Cornette on Doink The Clown / Matt Borne
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- Опубликовано: 22 апр 2021
- From Episode 188 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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I really wish that Matt Borne stayed as Doink the Clown, he made that character. The Doink heel theme was fantastic
**evil laughter** **crying baby noises**
Yeah but Matt Bourne had personal problems that prevented that.
Agreed
He was a great character. He was like Pennywise.
@@matthillegas3099 makes sense because Doink made his debut around the same time the movie came out. Too lazy to check to be certain
Matt Borne was Doink. No one else could play Doink like him. Matt Borne was a phenomenal wrestling talent. Love ya Jim
Most underused talent of the 'New Generation'. Heel Doink terrified me as a kid.
The evil Doink would have been perfect for the Attitude Era. He could have a truly evil and sinister character if they allowed him to be as dark as he could be. Matt Borne's problem is that he came to the WWF 6-7 years too early.
think they were gunning for doing the same with Papa Shango; completely spruced him up and his look and aimed to return him in 97 but it didn't eventuate....some of those 'characters' might have had interesting slants as slightly more "serious" gimmicks, but still the same gimmicks....only brought forward, more edginess; darker, twisted; evil whatever
Matt Borne's depiction of Doink was really good. It's a shame his drug issues got him fired.
His drug issues are probably what made him so good at it.
Yeah this dude was a big part of my childhood and my favorite guy on wrestlemania the arcade game
I heard he was a pothead? Did he do harder stuff? I could see him taking muscle relaxers or pain pills because of wrestling traps
Tremendous talent worked the crowd so well, as soon as Matt Borne got released the character was dead
.
Doink was perfect for that time, the "Cartoon Era" of the WWF 1990-1993.
It was still like that long after 93. They were still doing it in 95 and 96 that's why they were getting dominated by WCW
@ Jeffery Mark I know, I was referring to the Cartoon Era from 1990-93. The Matador, Skinner, IRS as a taxman, Issac Yankem aka 1995.
Evil Doink was a little dark for the cartoon era. He made kids in the audience cry and probably gave them nightmares for the rest of their lives.
Agreed. Didn't care for him as a kid but evil clown was great looking back on it now.
That's a very good description of that era. I never liked gimmick era. Cartoon fits better. I'm gonna steal it when I talk to the occasional wrestling fan if you don't mind. Props 😜
"We called him Krusty The Clown. Wasn't like that outfit got washed very often" - Kevin Nash
Wow lol
I love that shoot feud, Nash sure knows how to be an asshole.
@Dust Devil why you say that?
Kevin can say the funniest stuff with a straight face
He’s not dead though
Bret Hart put over doink as a great heel of that era.
I found him scary as a young child tbh.
So did Crush because Wrestlemania 9 incident was kinda scary
In his book Bret discussed that Davey Boy was the original choice for that Crush feud but he refused (and got fired soon after anyway). To be honest, I get why Bulldog would refuse. At the end of the day he would be the butt of a joke against an evil clown, and that is somewhat career suicide. Considering Bulldog at least went to WCW and mixed it up with Vader in the top mix I'd say his 1993 was better than being in the Crush role vs. Doink. That was always the problem with Doink, even as a heel. Anyone he beat was going to be buried because at the end of the day it's jobbing to a guy dressed as a clown, regardless of how sinister he was. I think he needed to look more decidedly evil, like The Joker or someone, but not a standard colorful clown.
@@josephcarl4167 incident? Got any context or more information?
The first double vision when crush got his head crushed by the arm cast
I think Evil Doink is universally loved. He was f'n awesome.
The darker version of Doink the Clown would be a cashcow in 2021.
Does Alexa Bliss count?
@@johns3491 I believe that’s, ahem, Boink the Clown
You mean Bray Wyatt?
Imagine a more modern version of Doink but a more movie like slasher version existing but in a PG Way
@@natebaxter9551 If Borne was alive, I'd love to see him as the Firefly Funhouse's Clarabell.
Matt Bourne's version was like the goddamn Joker. It was siiiiick! I agree that it got diluted after he was let go!
If any casual fan turned into the WWF and saw the heel Doink for the first time, I'd think they'd be intrigued or frightened. That gimmick worked better than heel Undertaker because of people's legit fear of clowns.
😂😂😂
I just imagined the heel Doink but as tall as the Undertaker. That is truly frightening.
Imagine if they did a Taker vs Doink feud in '93.
My first match was seeing Doink vs Savage as a kid and he scared the fuck out of me lmao
Can anyone explain the story behind "there would be no road warriors" he was talking about?
No idea but it sounds like a topic for next week's drive-thru
Apparently the story is Arn Anderson and Matt Borne were managed by Paul Ellering, but Borne got fired. The Road Warriors were then bought in to replace them in Ellering’s stable...
Borne got busted with a minor, which scrapped a tag team idea involving he and Arn with Ellering Managing. Insert Road Warriors.
I think the story is that Arn Anderson and Matt Borne were being put together in Georgia to be a top heel team but when Borne was fired for whatever they decided to find a partner for Joe Laurinaitis instead which lead to the birth of the Road Warriors
Glad someone explained this cause I had no idea what Jim was talking about
@@richardtheconquerer Matt Borne was caught with an underage girl and got fired.
Bourne got caught with a minor...in those days; no cell phones, no internet... you just stayed out of that territory to avoid prosecution.
I always thought the Doink character was more of a sarcastic response from Vince McMahon to the rest of the wrestling industry, who were perpetually complaining that he was turning the wrestling business into a circus. So what does Vince do? He brings in an actual clown, a staple of the circus, and gets him over in the wrestling business. Quite a few layers to unpack there really.
Well, the story I heard is that Matt Bourne was slumped over in the locker room one night, smoking a cigarette and looking miserable as hell, when Road Warrior Hawk looked at him and went "Dude... you're Krusty the Clown!" and immediately pitched it to Vince, who was a little sceptical (he'd never watched an episode of The Simpsons in his life) but was eventually sold on the idea
@@richardpreston7333 that’s what I’ve heard too.
If that's true about Vince actually thinking on it, and then putting that idea into action, Mr. Dutler, then Mr. McMahon IS a creative genius👍 It's brilliant bc he got Doink over like Rover, sir. His notoriety was gangbusters. R.I.P. Matt Bourne😇
@@richardpreston7333 No shit, Mr. Preston??😳 I had no idea that's how the Doink The Clown concept came about. Thanks for posting that👍🙂
@@richardpreston7333lmao, Hawk wasn't even in the WWF when Doink was there.
Love hearing the voice and the words from Jim as they are blunt, brash, honest, and he's full of knowledge as he's a text book of past wrestling history he knows the sport head to toe!
Cant wait for the Jim Duggan and Matt Bourne feud and the backstage fight on Darkside of The Ring.
Matt Borne is from my hometown, and very few people in town even know who he was. It’s a shame that he had so many struggles. He rocked the evil Doink, and it’s kind of scary.
You're from Ellwood City?
What David said. I'm from New Castle.
@@olereliableis his son angry?
The fucking noise Jim made when he heard doinks name is hilarious
Thank you for answering my question Jim
I grew up in the 90's, and I have fond memories of Doink. I honestly had no idea there were so many different wrestlers playing Doink until I started watching OSW episodes, lol. Same with Suicide from TNA. There were at least 4 guys that played him too.
Doink was phenomenal. Matt played him amazingly when he was a heel. Once they turned him face he was nowhere as good and no one played him better than Borne.
#RIPMatt
Matt Borne was a great wrestler and made the Doink the Clown character. He had badass matches with Bret Hart, 123 Kid and Mr. Perfect.
"Doink's got a dink." The single worst line in pro wrestling history and that covers A LOT of ground.
Borne Again in ECW was genius booking and will always be a case of what could have been
nope
Lmao, seriously?! 😂
Heel Doink was a great gimmick. One of my favorite Doink matches is when he faced Bret Hart at Summer Slam 93.
I recently played Doink's original entrance for my wife, with the circus music leading to the Phantom of the Opera style music and Borne's actual entrance. Got a big "HF. Nope!" from her :D. That was serious heel heat in our household lol.
Well, continue the storyline! Get yourself a younger, hotter female "manager" to increase your heel heat. And don't forget to tell us how it went. :)
Doink's run from the start of 93' till SummerSlam '93, his heel work was phenomenal.
I still love those King of the Ring qualifying matches Doink had with Mr.Perfect. Especially the first two.
True. Matt could work. Of course Curt Henning could work. Matt also had good matches with Bob Backlund.
I just saw the Dark Side of the Ring- Matt Borne episode. I have so many words and somehow I'm at a loss for words. A lot about his life I had zero clue about. A lot of pain in that tale, lot of struggle and Mick put it bluntly. His greatest foe was what he carried with him, demons. Hard, damn near impossible to excuse his discretions, grudges and selfishness. As a recovering addict/alcoholic I get it. I don't excuse it but I understand. Pain and destruction rarely seen in the moment, clinging harder to what's familiar as opposed to what's out there that wants the best for you and is out of love and feeling like reconsideration is just beyond our grasp. Feeling his moment was imminent he grasped at that last straw in his final years with his kids, though by the tragic way it played to the last minute that demon got the better of him. Honestly while taking in everyone's testimony and having to pause to ask "wtf?'" pretty frequently, a part of me as it went on better understands how even on my toughest of mental health days I have now days appreciate the opportunity to take the hard road and have some capacity to mend relationships and parts of my life he didn't. I'm still kinda shook, this episode probably hit me the hardest. Thanks to Vice for having the balls to put this together and see it through.
Did they say anything about his fondness for young girls?
The Dark Side of The Ring on Doink was really good.
Borne was a great wrestler and nobody could’ve played the character better.
There's a lot of elements of Matt Borne's Doink in the Fiend.
Now that you say that, you are 100% correct.
Had they had the Doink character in the 2000's they couldve transitioned towards a joker type clown and that would've been awesome
That's more or less what Borne did with the character in the indies.
when you rewatch heel Doink's matches and promos from '93 they're really fun.
2:55 I gotta know what Jim means about the "no Road Warriors". Anybody know what he's talking about?
i love that there's always gonna be wtf stories that we haven't heard
@@lage1984 I was hoping Brian would ask him what the heck he was talking about.
@@georgesalgado8783 me too. Maybe it's common knowledge among fans? I haven't heard it tho, so I hope they get back to it. Where's Charlie from Starkville when you need him?
@@lage1984 lol Charlie definitely knows!!! 😁👍
@@lage1984 might’ve had something to do with his allegations of sex with a minor?
Dude, the Ernie Ladd story 😂
Imagine Matt Borne's Doink transplanted 4 years into the future, and working in WWF from late '96 through '97 as a heel- the possibilities are endless- a heel tag team with Goldust challenging Owen and Davey Boy over the tag team belts at multiple PPVs. A 4-6 month heel vs heel program w Goldust that leads to a turn. Feuds with Helmsley, Mankind, the Undertaker, Shamrock.
Good old jimmy on a Friday
Doink the clown sucks
A new version of the character is due for a comeback, I tell you that right now. Clown fever has never been so much out of control, look at the angles good and ill they're doing now!
If the Doink gimmick had been created just a few years later, once WWF moved away from family friendly entertainment, I think he would have been a lot darker and looked more like Bray Wyatt's Fiend character. It might have been too much though to have Mankind, Taker, and a super dark Doink though all at the same time.
"Doink Bruh, You're Making Kids Cry Bruh"
I loved it when Doink was at the Slammy Awards and got in Steve Austin's face. Stone Cold and a few others beat the crap out of him. 😆
That Slammy show kicked ass.
@@RandalfElVikingo Indeed. 👊
🤣🤣🤣
Go back and watch Doink's debut.....the finish was amazing.
Doink the heel, with Matt Borne, was great, Doink the face was just comedy relief.
I'm from a small town in Pennsylvania where Matt Osborne actually used to live for a little bit.
Didnt Borne beat up a fan way back in Mid South when he was teamed with Duggan? He got sued, and it caused a lot of heat in the office and ended their tag run. That was the original source of their trouble.
Another issue was that Bourne's rep for how he treated women wasn't great either.
Matt returned to WWE in 2007 to reprise the role as Doink on the Raw's 15th Anniversary show. It was brief, but pretty awesome. Shame they didn't play the heel theme for him and give him more time to enter.
Doink was a great wrestler. That match with him and Bret at Summer Slam was good. Wish they got 5 more minutes. Plus he was a bad ass in real life
Doink sucks lol
I like doink but keep it real in real life he was jerk and hacksaw jim should have neat him for not being a professional in the last match they had
Bad ass in real life? 😂
@@salamisumo2 yes he was an accomplished wrestler and could kick most people's asses
Arn Anderson mentioned that one night matt was standing over him in the middle of the night while arn was just awoken from sleeping. He stared at arn and said "I wish I could piss on you". After hearing that,I truly question Matt Borne as a human being.
Are we allowed to talk about Borne Again? I personally think it was a great spin on the Doink gimmick in a place that loathed the Olde Federation.
Borne Again was awesome
@@richardeicholtz4868 Right? I always said that if that psychotic Al Snow in the middle of his cult babyface run and this psychotic former wrasslin clown got together, the Hammerstein roof would've been blown clean off.
Sadly ECW and Heyman didn't go far with him
Bring the Evil Doink gimmick back to join The Fiend's stable.
Matt Borne's Doink the Clown>The Fiend
As a child of 90s, I can tell you I was scared of the OG Doink
I liked the evil Doink, the twist with the music was good.
Borne gave Mick Foley this advice. "you don't rake the eyes, because you need to, you rake them because you want to"...that's demented genius advice.
I did like when he left WWF and went to ECW. The WWF had made him crazy, and he still wore a tattered Doink suit and smeared face paint, and started calling himself “Borne Again”
umm I must've missed something here, what does doink leaving have to do with the road warriors? what's that story?
Same
Before Bourne was 'Doink' and in the WWE, he was supposed to tag with Arn Anderson. Paul Ellering was supposed to manage them. Bourne got busted with a minor, got fired and had to leave the territory to avoid being prosecuted. They then brought in the Road Warriors to be managed by Ellering. Ellering basically hit the jackpot, because no tag team has ever drawn more money since, than the Road Warriors did. They were legitimately selling out 15,000 seat buildings, as a tag team.
I’ve just always found the name Doink hilarious
That picture of Cornette after being pied is great!
If Matt had more creative control, Doink the clown could of been more like, Pennywise... But, instead we got a, cleaner version of Beetlejuice combined with Bobo the clown...
I think Jim could've played a convincing Stallone in the movie "Stop, or my mom will shoot" 🤣
Hahah typical mommas boy
I never got the Doink the Clown character. Everyone I knew said what a character he was. I only saw him in the mid 90's in WWF. I didn't get into wrestling until around 94. And I don't know how I became a fan when most of wrestling sucked at that point in WWF. But I was big on The Undertaker and Yokozuna.
The original Doink, Matt Borne was phenomenal.
Waylon Mercy and Doink, would of been a cool tag team.
Who remembers heal Doink clubbing Crush with a prosthetic arm? lol
“When they had the midget clown and the Dink and the little fucking Dinkettes!” LMAO!!!! 😂🤣 He said Dinkettes!
They didn't do all of the stupid stuff with Doink until Borne left.
I remember Doink had a rivalry with Mr. Perfect, I though It was a joke match but it ended with classic wrestling match that ended in a draw, twice.
Enjoyed his brief run in ECW. Played as a rib on WWF. Inspired some of the worst, so bad they were good, promos from 2 Cold Scorpio.
Duggan wouldn't sell for Matt and Matt popped him. Duggan got mad, challenged Matt in the ring, and Matt walked away. What happened years before that, I don't know.
The Steamboat Borne match was one of the better matches at the first mania.
Matt Borne needs to be in the HOF! PERIOD
2021 WWE - the Fiend: "Oh we got an evil clown!"
Jim always wouldn't have done something when it's not his money. In reality he managed the new midnight express in wwf (which was way worse than Doink)
Really wanted to hear who Jim thought would have made a good heel Doink instead of Borne but they moved on.
It was like Vince heard people complaining that 1990 WWF was like a circus, and he just HAD to send in the clowns....
Hell, not long after that we even got a ringmaster...
I got to see him wrestle as both Matt Borne and Doink at a tribal casino back in '96 or '97. lol
What was better
Matt Bourne also had great runs in World Class & Portland besides Doink. Plus his run as Big Josh on WCW in like 1991. He also was booker for Sandy Barr's promotion in Portland in the mid 1990s & was starting to draw decent for an independent at the time.
Lmao, on what planet was Big Josh a success? Certainly not this one.
Evil doink wasn’t just good, it’s one of my favorite heels ever
That Ernie Ladd story slayed me 🤣🤣🤣
Matt Bourne reminded me alot of buzz Sawyer when he was in wccw
I think the clown heel idea was really smart there are a lot of people that knew about John Wayne Gacy I don't know if that was what he was channeling but evil clowns were definitely a thing
There are definitely a few wrestling clowns still out there today
Hated the clown gimmick but Matt Borne did the best he could with it!
The original version was pro wrestling's version of Two-Face.
What part of wrestling a ninja turtle isn't stupid and silly, Jim?
Evil Doink was basically the Joker
Fair play to Jim that he didn't like the evil clown gimmick. But did he not book fucking Ninja Turtles.
He had a wrestling match with a ninja turtle for fucks sake
And Batista as a sea creature/ demon.
Howled at "the Dinkettes!"
"Matt Borne was...a dark, demented individual..." What do you expect from a guy who grew up knowing Moondog Lonnie Mayne, Mr. Rogers? Matt had no choice. Plus his dad was Tough Tony Borne...yup, he was predisposed to being pretty dark alright.
If it wasn't for Matt Borne screwing around with an underage girl, you never would have had the Road Warriors. Both Hawk and Animal were sent home because they were so awful. They had to call them back when Borne had to leave the territory.
An attitude era Doink the Clown...with a dark serious tone could've been pretty sick. Half Evil Clown Half Twisted Man. Borne Again...ECW had it. Dink reigns supreme tho lol
Went to school with his kid in monroeville pa
Doink > HBK
I wouldn't go that far.
I think if Doink’s attire was different, and perhaps even had a less wacky name, probably would be more admired among the IWC, cuz an evil clown is a good foundation for a character, but having the name “Doink” for most people will probably leave for a low ceiling on whoever’s playing them
Everything Cornette is saying about Doink here is post Matt Borne..there was no Dink (well maybe one of Matt's last shows as Doink) no loudness and bells.
That funny/evil clown was my favourite WWF wrestler...
I am happy for Tiger Jackson he did a great job as Little Dink the midget clown. At least he got something to do for the next two years.
Bourne was brilliant. Wish he had control of his demons and that WWF would've kept the heat behind Evil Doink