I learned "Over Under" from a seasoned gaffer in the industry. I've personally found over under works better when throwing long stingers quickly so they don't tangle. You don't get as much tension from twisted up cable. Also when you lay a spooled stinger on the floor and walk out a lead you won't have to untwist the tension created by "over over method" Can't hurt to know both methods and do whatever works better personally I suppose. Great channel though!
The reason for the over-under method is to counteract the twisting of the cable that coiling it produces, which can damage cables and over time makes cables twisty / wavy / spirally. In my experience, doing over-over is only really practical for cables that you can easily untwist WHILE you coil them (eg: thick cables like stingers), meanwhile over-under is better for thinner cables like XLR or really long stingers that you can't easily untwist as you coil. I had a professor in college who was a big live TV director in the industry for decades and he only advocated for over-under (or figure 8).
@@jfratis9081 Are you aware of standard practice changing in different locations or fields? "The industry" is a lot larger than your personal work bubble.
@@TheSpecterRanger OK lets narrow it down then. Any movie set in the USA. It is motion picture standard because cables that are 20-30 yrs old that get coiled and uncoiled over-over weekly suffer the least damage. Coiling over-under twisted copper clad with rubber long enough and it will force the copper out of its molded groove. Work on any movie set in the USA and coil a power cable over-under or counterclockwise and you will be instructed to coil properly or go home.
@@jfratis9081 Sounds great for an electric grunt on movies. You explained the need for the standard when stating that 20-30 year old cables are used. Coiling cables over-over introduces a twist, but if the over-over method is used consistently, the rubber takes the twist to memory and this twist only makes coiling easier over time. Doing over-under on a cable that's been over-over for 30 years won't work out too well, but that isn't at the fault of the over-under method. Having hundreds of differently-skilled people wrap the same cables for years is a good way to ruin cables if there is no standard, so having you all wrap over-over for consistency makes sense. Over-under is also less practical for stingers because it makes them bulkier and easier to tangle, and can cause pressure points when many heavy cables are stacked. But data cables that aren't as thick and durable as stingers, and house more individual wires, can be royally destroyed from over-over wrapping, especially long cables. The rubber they have is less protective from twists. Over-under is also necessary for video cables that need to mobilize but stay connected; the twist from over-over will cause serious tangling issues for a cable wrangler following a camera operator. Since over-under counteracts a twist from occurring, it allows cable to be let out, or pulled in, without needing access to the entire cable to untwist. Note also-- although not a single cable--cable looms like used in live TV can't be wrapped over-over.
Every single stinger i've ever coiled will fight you if you coil over-under, while coiling over-over they fall into place. My experience is that Over-under fucks up cables.@@TheSpecterRanger
Sn1lloc I debated deleting the first ep but I want people to know that it's ok to be wrong and learn from your mistakes. Have no fear of failure. A lot of industry pros are willing to show the correct way
Thanks for sharing this info, appreciate you helping educate people on proper methods. It's evident that people don't adhere to any one way of winding cables. Some say over-under audio/AES and over-over anything carrying power. I used to stick to that but nowadays I tend to work with the cable's memory and see which method it wants. From experience, if I fight a cable it may break the conductors or mess up the cable memory. Also, I am of the strong opinion that one shouldn't mate the male/female ends after wrapping the cable. It provides a great opportunity to make a tangled mess. I wind the cable so that the ends are close and velcro/friction tape/tie it to eliminate the dangling ends. At the very least tie-off of the cable with one of the ends if you don't have a tape.
Dig your tips, even though I don't always agree 100%. But what I really want to say to you is, DUDE! Your future is clearly IN FRONT of the camera. You're a natural. I am guessing I'm not the first to say this and probably won't be the last. I predict a year from now you will be officially labeled "talent".
James WilderHancock thx for the kind words man. I've always aspired to be in front but I don't get the opportunities as much as I would like. Thanks again
I think those opportunities are on their way, brother. In the meantime, have you ever done any acting or presentation classes? Always helps to understand the language and particular skillsets required.
I really appreciate the work you're doing. I'd love to see a video about operating above household voltages. I understand that isn't something you want to encourage unlicensed professionals to do in itself, but gaffing info isn't sexy to most people and is therefore a lot harder to come across.
Man! I don't want to explain too much here about why, but: *you *are *real! This is so real ... I enjoyed it a lot. THIS IS HOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT! ... BTW: I feel with you on the Gossling issue xD....
What do you do when you have a long stinger which is twisted all the way and you don't have the space to lay it all out and correct it? Switch to over/under or let the twist handle the turn direction? I always struggle with that.
You should over under any twisted pair cable, unless you are applying a hard twist during wrap, which is impractical. Not just for the preservation of the cable's health, but also because cables that are over undered throw out better than over over, with less micro loops. Anyone who says over over is wrong. Sorry. Love your other videos though. An example of cable you dont need to over under is feeder, but you do need to figure 8 it when hot to avoid creating a transformer.
I came from an audio background, and we over-under everything. I've never seen anyone be able to throw an over-over cable and not have it immediately become a cluster-love session. Over-under (in my experience) is always better for that. If you don't need the whole cable played out, over-under lets it spool off without the spiraling that is guaranteed to get tangled in everything. At the same time, I don't want to piss of the rest of the crew by not adhering to their standard...
Question... Since you were used to doing it "over under" back in the past was it hard for you to switch to "over over" and does the cable throw differently for you now?
It didn’t take me long at all once I knew. And yea the cable doesn’t unravel the way it used to doing over under which I’ll be honest, I like doing over under for that reason alone, however, if over-over is the way it should be then I’m not trying to make the boss mad because of a preference. Sucks but, better to have it right than not I guess
Satinder Dhindsa the reason for some cables to be wrapped over-under is to preserve the shielded core of data cables. these include BNC, XLR, DMX, Display Port, and HDMI among others. Stingers and other power cords don't have a core or a shield.
Because the over-over method twists the cable on its axis and data and audio cables can break if they're under a lot of stress. I still prefer over-under even for stingers.
I learned "Over Under" from a seasoned gaffer in the industry. I've personally found over under works better when throwing long stingers quickly so they don't tangle. You don't get as much tension from twisted up cable. Also when you lay a spooled stinger on the floor and walk out a lead you won't have to untwist the tension created by "over over method" Can't hurt to know both methods and do whatever works better personally I suppose. Great channel though!
The reason for the over-under method is to counteract the twisting of the cable that coiling it produces, which can damage cables and over time makes cables twisty / wavy / spirally. In my experience, doing over-over is only really practical for cables that you can easily untwist WHILE you coil them (eg: thick cables like stingers), meanwhile over-under is better for thinner cables like XLR or really long stingers that you can't easily untwist as you coil. I had a professor in college who was a big live TV director in the industry for decades and he only advocated for over-under (or figure 8).
Over-over is industry standard. You don't get to choose what you like.
@@jfratis9081 Are you aware of standard practice changing in different locations or fields? "The industry" is a lot larger than your personal work bubble.
@@TheSpecterRanger OK lets narrow it down then. Any movie set in the USA. It is motion picture standard because cables that are 20-30 yrs old that get coiled and uncoiled over-over weekly suffer the least damage. Coiling over-under twisted copper clad with rubber long enough and it will force the copper out of its molded groove. Work on any movie set in the USA and coil a power cable over-under or counterclockwise and you will be instructed to coil properly or go home.
@@jfratis9081 Sounds great for an electric grunt on movies. You explained the need for the standard when stating that 20-30 year old cables are used. Coiling cables over-over introduces a twist, but if the over-over method is used consistently, the rubber takes the twist to memory and this twist only makes coiling easier over time. Doing over-under on a cable that's been over-over for 30 years won't work out too well, but that isn't at the fault of the over-under method. Having hundreds of differently-skilled people wrap the same cables for years is a good way to ruin cables if there is no standard, so having you all wrap over-over for consistency makes sense. Over-under is also less practical for stingers because it makes them bulkier and easier to tangle, and can cause pressure points when many heavy cables are stacked. But data cables that aren't as thick and durable as stingers, and house more individual wires, can be royally destroyed from over-over wrapping, especially long cables. The rubber they have is less protective from twists. Over-under is also necessary for video cables that need to mobilize but stay connected; the twist from over-over will cause serious tangling issues for a cable wrangler following a camera operator. Since over-under counteracts a twist from occurring, it allows cable to be let out, or pulled in, without needing access to the entire cable to untwist. Note also-- although not a single cable--cable looms like used in live TV can't be wrapped over-over.
Every single stinger i've ever coiled will fight you if you coil over-under, while coiling over-over they fall into place. My experience is that Over-under fucks up cables.@@TheSpecterRanger
Damn I didn't know Ryan Gosling is that good at gripping.
Konrad Wiebe hahaha yea I get that a bit. That and Edward norton, Alan ruck, and lately Justin Verlander (tigers pitcher)
Ikr
I heard over-under for data transfer cables and over-over for stingers and such
I watched the first episode and that why is he wrapping the stringer like that. I'm glad you made this update.
Sn1lloc I debated deleting the first ep but I want people to know that it's ok to be wrong and learn from your mistakes. Have no fear of failure. A lot of industry pros are willing to show the correct way
Its good you didn't, that video had a lot of useful stuff, I would just annotations by that part saying check out this episode.
Sn1lloc yea I should
Other than that lots of great stuff on your channel! Keep it up.
Thanks for sharing this info, appreciate you helping educate people on proper methods.
It's evident that people don't adhere to any one way of winding cables. Some say over-under audio/AES and over-over anything carrying power. I used to stick to that but nowadays I tend to work with the cable's memory and see which method it wants. From experience, if I fight a cable it may break the conductors or mess up the cable memory.
Also, I am of the strong opinion that one shouldn't mate the male/female ends after wrapping the cable. It provides a great opportunity to make a tangled mess. I wind the cable so that the ends are close and velcro/friction tape/tie it to eliminate the dangling ends. At the very least tie-off of the cable with one of the ends if you don't have a tape.
Dig your tips, even though I don't always agree 100%. But what I really want to say to you is, DUDE! Your future is clearly IN FRONT of the camera. You're a natural. I am guessing I'm not the first to say this and probably won't be the last. I predict a year from now you will be officially labeled "talent".
James WilderHancock thx for the kind words man. I've always aspired to be in front but I don't get the opportunities as much as I would like. Thanks again
I think those opportunities are on their way, brother. In the meantime, have you ever done any acting or presentation classes? Always helps to understand the language and particular skillsets required.
James WilderHancock I'm actually SAG-AFTRA. No real classes, basically learned from doing Improv, stage, and stand-up comedy
Good to know! I am putting you into my talent database. Looking forward to your next tip!
I really appreciate the work you're doing. I'd love to see a video about operating above household voltages. I understand that isn't something you want to encourage unlicensed professionals to do in itself, but gaffing info isn't sexy to most people and is therefore a lot harder to come across.
Sam Speck I'd love too, and I will eventually. Just need to read up on it. Like I understand it but I don't have a lot of hands-on
Man! I don't want to explain too much here about why, but: *you *are *real! This is so real ... I enjoyed it a lot. THIS IS HOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT! ... BTW: I feel with you on the Gossling issue xD....
nepomukism haha thanks man
Stinger game on point.
What do you do when you have a long stinger which is twisted all the way and you don't have the space to lay it all out and correct it? Switch to over/under or let the twist handle the turn direction? I always struggle with that.
You should over under any twisted pair cable, unless you are applying a hard twist during wrap, which is impractical. Not just for the preservation of the cable's health, but also because cables that are over undered throw out better than over over, with less micro loops. Anyone who says over over is wrong. Sorry. Love your other videos though.
An example of cable you dont need to over under is feeder, but you do need to figure 8 it when hot to avoid creating a transformer.
Could you clarify which you are suggesting for which, and experience/industry?
I came from an audio background, and we over-under everything. I've never seen anyone be able to throw an over-over cable and not have it immediately become a cluster-love session. Over-under (in my experience) is always better for that. If you don't need the whole cable played out, over-under lets it spool off without the spiraling that is guaranteed to get tangled in everything. At the same time, I don't want to piss of the rest of the crew by not adhering to their standard...
Madness by Design this is actually exactly how I feel about it, and yea again, I wouldn’t if the standard is the other
Is Over-Under the same as Pinch-and-twist?
Question... Since you were used to doing it "over under" back in the past was it hard for you to switch to "over over" and does the cable throw differently for you now?
It didn’t take me long at all once I knew. And yea the cable doesn’t unravel the way it used to doing over under which I’ll be honest, I like doing over under for that reason alone, however, if over-over is the way it should be then I’m not trying to make the boss mad because of a preference. Sucks but, better to have it right than not I guess
So why are power and video cables treated differently in how they're wrapped? They're all just cables...
Satinder Dhindsa the reason for some cables to be wrapped over-under is to preserve the shielded core of data cables. these include BNC, XLR, DMX, Display Port, and HDMI among others. Stingers and other power cords don't have a core or a shield.
Because the over-over method twists the cable on its axis and data and audio cables can break if they're under a lot of stress. I still prefer over-under even for stingers.
Why would wrapping stingers be covered by "grip tips?"
Because grip tips is just the name of the show.
People get pretty pissed off when you plug the ends into eachother on set and say it's a "stage" thing. And just an unnecessary step on film sets