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120: Can You OVERKNEAD Bread Dough By Hand? (Yeasted) - Bake with Jack
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2019
- I'm SURE (well, pretty sure) this would have been different with wholemeal flour... It is very possible to over knead a bread dough in a machine, I've been there: Sticky dough without any evidence of the strength and structure that built up along the way. But is it possible to do by hand and if it is, how long will it take to get there?
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Song is: les Joies Ephemeres
Oh God why?! Haha, Even I feel the strain on my arms just by watching this. Gotta give the man a star for proving a point with sheer frickin' will and determination.
💪🏻🔥
workout for the day done
Lol I kneaded for half of the day the other day coz my dough is very sticky and I know nothing about just dough in general, needless to say my arms were very sore 😂. But I did improve though, I made a soft loaf bread yesterday and a pizza today!
That was actually really reassuring. Thank you for spending an hour and a half to make many of us less nervous. I think many people kneaded to know this, I certainly did
I like the pun at the end.
This is huge! Everyone always scares you "don't overwork the dough", "be gentle", "NO MORE THAN 10MIN!!!". Damm.. This will make people much more relaxed and not afraid to bake.
It is something to be concerened when working with a machine. But if you don't walk away from it or shit like that, for weat the possibilties of overkneading aren't very high. For Hand kneading defenetly not. With Autolyse kneading time will sink, but still no real danger of overkneding.
However: Be carefull with Spelt and other older Grains. They don't have the same Gluten structure ( Gluten consists of Glutenin and Giladin; Wheat has a lot Glutenin, while Spelt and others have way more Giladin). Kneading them is way faster and they are overkneaded very easily. Again, the danger of doing so isn't high with hand kneading, but after 1 hour and 40 Minutes, I promise you, that bread would be SHIT.
@@sagichdirdochnicht4653 Whole grain wheat is also easy to overknead. I have my share of experiences. It seems to be related with the bran, from what I read. They cut through the gluten mesh. If you do it enough times the gluten can't recover from the tearing. But I didn't go too deep on the topic, and also, always suspect what you read in the internet, but it seems enough logical to me.
@@JanilGarciaJr To be honest, I don't haven't experienced overkneading with whole Grains. But that may be because I only work with fresh Milled flour, from a machine for home Use. Those flours (that technically aren't flours), so they pretty much need a whole lot of time just to get hydrated enough, that the gluten will even start to form.
But for store bought whole grain this would be kinda logical: ALL of the gluten is in the Endosperm. White Flours have way more of it in it, because the other parts are filtered. With whole grain you have ultimatively less Gluten - wich means overkneading a dough can be theoretically easier.
Where did you find all these scares from everyone about not overworking the dough? Are they and the recipes perhaps referring to stand mixers and machine-made breads instead?
Because I myself have never in my life come across anyone or any source telling me that I can ever overknead dough by hand, under normal circumstances and bread types.
Most sources I come across simply states it's nearly impossible to overknead by hands alone.
@@rushbcykablyat1792 Don't know internationally, but here in germany most of the kneading times are meant for machines. And the possibility of overkneading is defenetly there No matter if with beefy dough mixers or trashy chinese Kitchen Aid Clones.
Still, overkneading a dough by hand is not impossible, if you really want it to happen. Other then that... Takes a whole lot of time and normally you'd simply stop when the dough feels ready.
Never heard about anyone overkneading by and as well. Even with very "fragile" Grains and / or Flour Types. But happens regulary with machines, if not enough attention is put in.
Welcome to Excercise With Jack
Bwahahahahaha!!😜🤪
LOL!
_,,Sh%%! I told you he was crazy! Man, you _*_jacked up!_*
_Man, what's this? Sh&& looks ridiculous. No respect for the 'hood, all clean and sh%%."_
"And on that day, the Grinch's biceps grew 3x the size!"
Did the beard rise properly?
Not all heroes wear capes... some wear aprons!
Seriously though thanks for the dedication and proving this for us! You've taught me so much about making bread!
I bet that was hard, but it really is one of my favorite videos so far, because it proves a concept. Over working dough will not be a concern for us home bakers any more. Thank you for going through this for us. Great education.
In other words.... dough-nt worry about it.
@@oz_jones womp woommp
U went all in with that dough mate, 90 mins by hand. BY HAND 😲!!! . Phew😰. Your dedication is immense which I think is absolutely admirable. Thanks to you I have been making some great bread at home and also thanks to you, I have one less thing to wory about😉. Definitely one of the best videos on your channel. The way you make your videos is just so awesome, and the music to set the mood. Perfect perfect perfect!! Much love from India 🇮🇳 Mumbai (Bombay) city. Roll it 🎬📽️😎
The winning documentary: "Life of an Educator"
I really appreciate your hard work and the hassle you've been through for recording this video.
This is documentation of a man’s descent into madness hahaha
😄😄
That accent.
That looks.
That determination.
That humor.
That strength.
SUCH A GIFT. ❤️
Wow Jack, that is some dedication. Eesh. Your elbows and shoulders are going to need some rest to avoid repetitive stress injuries...
Kneaded my dough for 30 min and was worried. Last time I didn't knead it long enough and it had poor texture once it was baked, so I maybe overcompensated a bit this time. Good to know I probably didn't ruin it:)
How did it turn out?
@@rich1051414 The flavour was good, but it was too dense. I tried a third time and kneaded for 8 min, it was perfect!
@@katherinetutschek4757 Thank you :)
Me: but, can you over-knead a sourdough, huh!?!
Jack: *blocked*
Dough is Dough Sour or otherwise.
@@bobsnooker.3950 I know, it was a joke.
Guy Nakash was that apart of the joke or
Holy cow, i felt like i was right there with you. I've kneaded dough for pasta until i felt like i was overhydrating it with my sweat (at home) and seeing you work your hands raw for an hour and a half brought me back to it. A for effort. Can't not like that to show appreciation.
I'd love to see the loaves baked and compared!
I read an article done with an engineer who studied food production engineering and graduated with a final work called something like @the relevance of the number of turns and their speed in a dough machines. That was in 1975 i think, hes a pensioner now and the interwiew was published in a local paper. He was later the head of production of machines and was constructing larg baking setups like the 5km (if you put all the machines and furnaces in line)line they bult in russia in Moscow. So i consider that man an authority. I cant remember the exact number he told in that interwiew but it was a big one. definetely not the one that one can achieve by hand or even with a kitchen apliance. He concluded to put it simply, that more is more as far as the regular home or professional chef is concerned. In large bakeries, there is a limit where you can over do it with their machinery.. This particular end result in the video would in my experience make good bread. tried it myself with all the possible combos by using a dough program on my bread maker. like....I Added more water, 4 times rising and turning the dough again, cold rising overnight, 3 days of work sometimes, different approaches...All breads were great. BUT....I think that in the end, it comes to baking that. And that is the hard part. One must know their oven. Like keeping the moisture, and controling the heat and the rise of the rails in the oven (with my oven, i start at high temp on a lowest setting of the rails almost at the bottom of the oven, so the heat heats mostly from below, and then after 30 minutes into baking or more or less -depending on the amount of dough that went into the oven (1kg or 1/5kg...),I rise that to the middle rail and proceed to bake to the end at lower temperature. And i bake on a baking stone 1cm thick). Its an art in its own way, this baking stuff. i love it. And i love learning new stuff. Nice video.
I love how the music sped up as the time sped up. Who knew "Bake with Jack" provided comic relief? 😆
😜
I'm laughing my butt off! Your point is made, very clearly. And you don't have to go to the gym this week 🤣.
😆
Now THAT was some EPIC stretches!! LOL Add this one to the annals of MYTHBUSTERS of Bread Making!!
My hero! Paul hollywood wrote "its imposible to over kneed by hand" however i felt i could never truely trust that shady scouse, and paranoia
would marr my kneeding, but now thanks to your great sacrifice i can breathe a sigh of relief and kneed happy
“Shady scouse” 🤣 so happy it helped!
@@Bakewithjack the flip side to the question then .. is .. can you under knead the dough .. Paul Holiwood discovered to his amaaaaazment.. you DONT need to knead dough AT ALL .. HE .. proved it in doing a bakery visit around Europe to bakers famous for such breads
10:06 "Enough is enough! Wooooo!" I could not help but start laughing. I would have given up long ago with a "To hell with this!"
Can ask him to knead my arse lol
You had me actually laughing out loud with that one, Jack. That was a hoot! I will never worry about over-kneading again.
I know right? I was cracking up. But great effort and mighty educational. Thanks Jack.
I’ve watched a few of your videos now, but you earned my subscription with this one. The proof is in the dough, and now I never need to worry about over kneading again. I’ll probably show this to anyone I know who baked bread. Thank you!
Jack gets the award for outstanding dedication to his followers. Jack you could have added a before and after of your biceps for all the work you put into this. All kidding aside the greatest benefit of this video is we get to see a prolonged demonstration of your kneading technique. That's invaluable for anyone struggling with working with dough wetter than maybe they're accustomed to. Keep them coming mate!
I'm definitely learning how to bake bread before this quarantine ends. Thanks, Jack. Your videos are keeping me sane during this chaotic time.
Have fun Teresa 🤗
Love the song while you're in speed mode.
@@oryxthemad All I know that it is some gal singing in French.
I'm touched by the length you'd go to experiment and make a good video for us. I once kneaded dough for 40 minutes and it was painful and I said "never again!"
Never again... 🤣
This is very helpful. Most of the videos on youtube always says "do not overknead the dough" as if they're using their hands. This clears me up and we have nothing to worry about overkneading. Big thumbs up to you Jack 👍🏻
Thanks for answering my question Jack! You really put the effort in ! Not something I am going to worry about again! You're a star! Amazing!
You not only saved me an hours worth of kneading and wasting a bunch of ingredients, you have answered some very good basic questions. Thank you!
TY for this Vid. Overworking my dough by hand was something that worried me but will no longer, If anything my fear of over kneeding has lead me to underkneed after wrongly blaming my problems on overkneeding. Thank you again this Vid has pointed me in the true direction of my problems.
i kneaded mine for 2 hours staight trying to get that stretchy dough my dough is always wet but i intend to use dry flour when it sticks to the bench i use a egg spachular to scrape my dough from the bench i use plain flour by the way im one of those heavy kneaders which i push it into the bench i have been bought up kneading hard dough all my life and that's the way i knead and it comes out pretty good
Thankyou for your time and your recipe along with all the tips that you have posted over time. I made this recipe yesterday and made it into rolls, my husband said that they were the best that i have made, so a big THANKYOU again.
Oh my goodness, bless your heart! I can't believe you worked that dough for 1 1/2 hours! I bet your arms will be sore! Thank you for the experiment! I feel more confident now! Your my hero🤗
OGM I needed this! I needed this video so badly. I am heavy handed. I am overly aggressive. My shoulders hold most of my muscle mass. I sometimes can't help it. And ya. I'm scare of being too gentle and not working it long enough or the converse, working it to hard for too long. But I still haven't figured it out because I still end up with sticky dough no matter what I try. That right texture that is bread dough eludes me. I get a bread thing for sure. But it's never gotten that smooth shiny texture I've seen everyone else get. And I might have always had it. Watching you work that piece for an hour and half, and at time work it like I do.... I needed to see that. I really did. Thank you.
Wow, you go that far to show us not to worry about over work our dough! Truly appreciate it, thanks 😊
Ty for answering my question. For my first bread, i kneaded for almost an hour! Didnt know when to stop 🤣
This awesome and the best way to really understand a craft.
So many videos out there just following the status quo and repeating second hand info, instead of knowledge that has been earned by actually testing the methods.
Hey Jack. Greetings from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Thanks for all the work you put into this video. This is Back-breaking research. I appreciate this as it's liberating. I made my first bread loaf at home (something new for the global lock down during the Covid-19 pandemic) last night. I kept worrying that I would overwork my dough. I was trying to remember my Baker's advice from 1995 (although I loved the 1 month experience, it was my first and last bakery job). I remember hearing him say that if you overwork the dough you break the gluten formation. That was weighing on my mind. But the bigger problem was that as the dough was sticky I kept adding flour. I got a nice albeit overly crumbly white bread. A lesson learned. Thanks again. Cheers!
That slow pan to the ticking clock with epic music was verging on Christopher Nolan quality cinematography. Well done
Thanks, I really kneaded this for when I start a bakery. I can't tell you anything more about it though, that's on a knead to know basis. I'm sure I'll be absolutely rolling in the dough once I get up and running.
That has helped me a lot as I was always reading that stodgy bread was caused by under working OR over working the dough. Now I only have to worry about under working it. Cheers mate. A new subscriber.
I was worried that i might have overworked my pizza dough, i kneaded it for around an hour and a half too *i know, i was doing the windowpane test and it just won't pass it and thought it was underworked the whole time, still remember the pain in my fists* it was scary thinking that all that work was gone for a waste but your video is the second reason after God's guidance that I can now sleep peacefully knowing my dough survived . Thank you, the work in this video is so much appreciated
Your dedication is mind blowing! This deserves a Trillion 'Likes'...... Thank you, Jack.
I really love kneading dough! It's so nice to know I can go an extra few minutes and not worry about ruining my loaf. :)
I got scared of over kneading when I made my first bread. Solid hard as rock maybe could pound nails with it. I've been very careful ever since then and made sure I just work for around 5 minutes. This made me relax better for the future bread I'm gonna make. Thanks.
Epic. Thanks for doing that so we don't have to!
this was really enjoyable.. i knead dough for twenty minutes and feel drained, and you did it for so long. good job on this video!
I pressed the subscribe button because of how enthusiastic you are in giving real bread making tips to your viewers.
Thank you for teaching me that i have never kneaded my dough properly. People always make kneading seem like such a strenuous process that I have always given my kneading everything I've got. Way too aggressive and forceful for 8-15 minutes. Then end up with a sticky mass that was only a bit more elastic than when i started kneading. I'd tell myself that it should come together during the rise and ultimately I'd bake a very sad dense loaf. I wanted to bake more during quarantine, but I didn't want to eat sad bread everyday. Thanks for helping me. After about a couple years of occasional baking, I just made my first proper dough ball that is smooth and bouncy and lovely ❤️
Oh, goodness me Jack, you really gave it a workout! (And yourself). After you went into needing it heavy handed I thought "now its time is over! The bake is going to show it looking like a brick!" Well I was surprised like everyone else. Thanks Jack for proving to us the point in question, so many people just write and say, and others quote them, but you've proved them wrong!
That’s exactly what I thought too! 🤗
Great video Jack - love the content and the edit.
I've always worked to the thought that there is little point kneading your dough into the point where your yeast should be kicking in and starting to puff up your dough. I was told that, unless you are using a dough more active, more heat, sugar, etc, that yeast activity really starts around 30 mins in, and that is way longer than you really need to knead for. Like you say, 8 mins are enough... unless you are missing the gym and need a workout!
Thanks Jack - this is a great channel! It's reigniting my passion for bread baking ☺
That was one of the best vedios. You’re really top coach , chef , .... God bless you Jack
THANK YOU!!!! I finally decided to overcome my fear of making bread during this pandemic, but still haven't confronted my biggest fear of all - kneading by hand - due to several really bad over-kneading experiences when I was just out of college. Perhaps it happened because I was carelessly measuring by volume instead of by weight, plus probably just messing up the recipe in other ways too. I now know baking is a much more precise science than making a rustic sauce or soup, but you've proved to me that it takes an impossible amount of hand kneading to truly mess things up. THANK YOU!!!!!
thank you for your sacrifice! I always worried that I will overwork it but now here is the proof that it's very difficult to do
Great video, Jack!! I've often wondered if the rumour was true or not and YOU DISPROVED IT!! :) You are the MYTHBUSTER of bread making!!
Thank you so much for this video!
I made my first supple, fluffy, fantastic dough last night for the first time. I thought I'd been overworking the dough even though I'd heard that it's impossible to do so by hand. I was too scared to go too far still and my doughs were always too under kneaded. You have proven the old adage right!
Thank you for making these thoroughly helpful and reassuring videos!
AMAZING Stephanie 🤗 well done! It’s my pleasure 🤗
Just got some flour so can get back into production. Thought I’d watch this to see if I can improve my technique, bit less water and a bit less aggressive needing. Most impressed by your stamina well done.
Woah! That's amazing! I was worried if i am overkneading, and here you are.
My biceps and flexors thank you for this experiment, I've read 8 to 15 so I do 10 minutes as someone new to bread making. This is extemely hepful and reassuring that I could not possibly over do it as I personally want to quit at about 30 seconds lol.
An excellent video Jack. I wasn't worried to begin with, but now I'm even more assured.
I loved this!!! You are terrific, amazing, entertaining, athletic and answer questions that maybe we all are afraid to ask!!! Thank you for being YOU!!!!!!
Very interesting and a huge relief knowing you can’t really over work the dough. Thanks Jack 😊
Has happened to me twice that I remember. It really does literally fall apart. Handfuls of flour paste. But I usually knead with a mixer and dough hook so I'm not worried about hand kneading. Fun to watch though.😊
Tell you Jack that was a great video and thanks to your perseverance, you have killed the myth.
I absolutely love your videos. But I must say, I've never watched a video on bread making, that's made me laugh before until your videos. Thank you for being so informative - and making this fun. :)
Thank you so much for your effort! Your clips resolve many questions in my mind.
Wish I had seen this earlier. I did one for my very first time last week. Did 2 hours (not exaggerating, my shoulders and upper back hurt for the whole day after), and finally the dough was smooth enough close to your 8 min result. The dough didn't rise after waiting for like 16 hrs, and the bread failed. After watching your videos, I realized the way I did it was just wrong, I pretty much pushed the dough into my counter and let it stick there. Thank you for saving my back and shoulder muscles!
Absolutely loved it!! Very much appreciate to have seen this done.
What you won’t do to further our bread making knowledge must be a very short list, indeed! Appreciate your dedication.
after an hour and a half ....it will probably bake before it ever 'break'. At least we now know that after one hour of kneading, you become a mind reader! "Best Video Ever" - thanks!
Thanks for your commitment. I would have been interested in seeing the 1.5 hour knead baked and compared to the regular knead bread. Definitely, you should replicate and create a follow-up video 😂
Thank you Jack... This is hillarious and very entertaining and yet i never have to worry about over kneading...thank you!
I usually over-knead my bread in 5 minutes! You are too good!
This is such an amazing video. Puts me at ease. Thank you so much, Jack!
Awesome a good exercise in more ways than one and now I know I'm not over needing my bread
Wow, thanks for this, I am new at baking bread and it is one thing I worry about kneading enough☺️ and I agree this is one heck of a workout😅. Thanks Jack, new subscriber here from Philippines❤️
Couldn't imaginr myself kneading for that long. Bravo bro! Good video
I twice made "high-hydration" (lots of eggs, ~50% of butter) brioche by hand and a panettone once. I feel your pain, bruh. This time of kneading is exhausting.
Gotta say, love my stand mixer nowadays :P
Dough with egg is a nightmare, i always feel my fingers breaking
Thank you for this! I was worried as I had kneaded my dough fro my cinnamon rolls for around 25 minutes and was worried I overkneaded it. Sweating bullets but at least I didn't ruin my dough! Can't imagine how tiring it is to knead for an hour and a half. Who would do that lolol.
Thanks, Jack.. This video gave me the confidence to bake .. thank you very much,..
Now i dont have to be scared making dough. Thanks to your effort! More power to ur channel!
You, sir, are a BEAST!! That's a compliment in America, btw! I feel so much better about "overworking" dough now! Thank you!
Thanks! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Whew! I am exhausted just watching you, but I couldn't help but wonder what a full two hours would have done :-) Thanks for putting my mind to rest about overworking the dough it really was a concern of my mine but not any longer. Thanks!
I've never been able to over knead by hand. Been curious about it. Thanks!
Oh man. Just found your vids and let me tell you, the 3rd way you did it is how I normally do it. I can save some energy now!
Thanks for your hard work! 💪 I’m really glad I found your videos! Learning a lot from you!
That's very reassuring, and entertaining Jack.Thanks mate!
Oooh! Thank you so much for this! I tried my very first bread kneading today and I was so scared I had over-kneaded because I had done 15 minutes.
Omg admire your dedication to give us these valuable lessons
Amazing video!
But I really had an experience of "overkneading" by my heavy-hand. Following is my case:
I always use bowl to knead so i normally need longer time. I was planning to add 10% olive oil (focaccia) but I forgot until I gave a 20min knead and the dough is well done. Then I added oil and knead further until oil absorbed into the dough, I had another 20min kneading but the bowl is still very oily (which i considered as not well absorbed). Then I changed my way of knead and gave a 3-5 forceful pushes into it to make the dough stretch more (and somehow i saw some tearing).
After that the dough suddenly absorbed all the oil around, became very soft but teared apart very easily (fail the windowpane test). Then I continued my kneading for another 20min, nothing change. Soft and not much consistency. Then i gave up and baked it away, the puff was bad.
I dont know how oil can affect the result
I learned to be more gentle with my dough today. Thank you
Gosh, how I loved your music choice...lol. You are an amazing tutor! Love your expert knowledge, your wonderful sense of humor, and your sped up arm acrobatics....lol.
You ROCK, darlin'! Best channel on RUclips! God bless you in all your endeavors! ☺🍞☕🍞☕💞
I've been a cook my whole life I've taken on homemade bread about 7 years ago still not happy with my results I'm very aggressive and over knead making a dense heavy loaf, I've learned more watching your videos than anybody about adding flour at the wrong time my doughs way to dry I see you have a very tacky dough, I'm obsessed with thinking it's not supposed to be tacky like that thank you very much for your videos.
Now I have to smash that Like button for the 1.5h muscle work! But seriously this is very helpful so I no longer need to worry about overworking my dough!
Oh my! Better than gym workout! Thank you Jack!
Interesting discovery. Thank you for being so funny and cheerful at the same time. God bless
Im new at baking and google told me i shouldnt knead too long! Happy to see this video kudossss