Early SImpsons was so much better on comparing family life with changing societal norms. Great social commentary. That kinda died around season 10 and eventually the show was just another pop culture icon that didnt mean anything.
The review of the simpsons episode is subjective opinion. Because both girl's are friendly and do not hurt anyone there for it's ok for both of them to be themselves. Also Lisa has friends at home.😎💚💚
A more accurate way* The word logical does not fit there at all. Logic is a learned subject, and one has to actually study it to understand it. Something the vast vast majority of people never do, yet they used the word like they understand it. 🙈
I don't think it's a bandwagon fallacy. I think Homer is just telling Lisa that if someone else is getting results that she wants to see, she should analyze what they're doing right and try to imitate them. It's not even bad advice.
This video is actually an awful (and incorrect) example of the "Argument ad populum" fallacy. Here, Homer never said that if Lisa did what the majority did, she would be "correct" or "right." Instead, he argued that Lisa would be acting in her self-interest and would personally BENEFIT if she acted and behaved in the same way that most did. Amusingly, this is NOT a fallacious argument. Please admit that this error for the sake of honesty. Thank you!
Not every example I use is an exact replica of the rule stated. I thought of using Homer's advice to Bart in "A Telltale Head," but thought this clip was funnier. Could this mislead those trying to learn from the video? Perhaps. But I think with the explanation I gave and your comment here, most will avoid that pitfall.
Look, I do recognize that I'm coming off as hostile and quite like a jerk here. I shouldn't have done that. The thing is, though, that you seem to be glossing over my point: your claim in the video that, and I quote, "by advising Lisa to do something merely because it would bring popularity, Homer commits the bandwagon fallacy" is blatantly false. In fact, that is a tremendous butchering of what the bandwagon fallacy really is defined as. The main problem I see here is in your misunderstanding of the _definition_ of the bandwagon fallacy (including in the "A Telltale Head" example, which I will get into soon). The bandwagon fallacy is when someone claims that something is *THE TRUTH* because many or most believe it. Even in the supposedly "better" example in "Bart in "A Telltale Head," Homer _still does not even_ commit the bandwagon fallacy. There, Homer stated the following: "Being popular is the most important thing in the world." (Note: His claim never even _mentioned_ evaluating the truth value of any argument whatsoever.) If we went by your definition of the bandwagon fallacy (doing something because it brings popularity), then you would be right that this counts as an example. Unfortunately for you, your definition itself is, as I have been trying to tell you all along, the real problem here. The bandwagon fallacy is committed, and I repeat, if and only if it takes the form of "If many believe the argument is true, then the argument is true," not your incorrect "If a person is doing it to bring popularity, it is fallacious reasoning." As I have demonstrated, this all clearly indicates a misunderstanding on your part, not on mine. You should be willing to admit your mistake and correct your error.
+Colburn Classroom In a video called "The Simpsons - Isotopes Bandwagoner," it's implied that Homer is convinced by everyone else's beliefs because everyone seems to be believing it's true. It's not a perfect example, but it's implied pretty heavily. I'm a full-blown heretic though because I never have watched the Simpsons... yeah... I'm not much help. Sorry.
@landon8214 He is strawmaning Homer's advice. The whole video is not a good example of the Bandwagon Fallacy. Acting in a certain way to try to become popular is not the same as believing something is true because its popular. In the video Homer suggest to Lisa that she should take some inspiration from the popular kid in order to be more popular. The part where the popular kid ask who is the evil twin could have been a better example. If she believed it to be true because it's a widely spread idea that one of the twins must be evil, it would be a bandwagon fallacy, but we don't know that. She is probably simply making a joke based on horror movies cliche.
This is not the bandwagon fallacy, but I do see several people in the comment section leaping on the bandwagon that it is. Homer's advice here is actually perfectly logical. If person A is popular, then it makes sense that if person B attempts to copy A they'll also be popular. Being popular gives many practical benefits (certainly more than being able to tell logical fallacies apart... )
Error in this analysis is that Lisa is obviously upset that her friends liked Alex enough to ditch her, and “do what Alex does” is actually valid advice.
"band wagon fallacy" For homer advising lisa to be who she is not good idea telling her that is good enough is what matters but lisa has to know that being confident matters.
@Cauane Andrade Weather and climate hasn't changed much since I grew up. Cyclical events and occasional extreme weather. Been like that for millions of years. I've only been around for about 70 years and have seen none of the predictions come true. At some point you stop listening to crying wolf. Especially when every year they predict disaster is only 10 years away. Al Gore started by predicted disaster in 5 years but that turned out to be ridiculous. Waiting for climate disasters is like waiting for the 2nd coming. It's soon but not too soon to keep contributions coming in. Sacrifice is part of also much like throwing virgins into a volcano to appease the wrath of the gods. Different year. Same all story because the human race is eternally gullible.
thats not how that fallacy works lol, having several people that are experts in the specific relevant field prove something objectively is different from a separate person of any form of authority claiming something, and is also different from many random people with varying experience claiming something
@@scribblecloud I don't understand what you are saying. By definition, fallacies don't work (prove anything). That's why they're called fallacies. What you call "working" is human social tendencies. It causes cognizance dissidence to be left out of a group. Humans will assume that they must be perceiving the issue incorrectly so will agree with the group. This is an even stronger tendency if they perceive that the group has authority or are credentialed. Even computers make mistakes, usually because the wrong data is fed in or the data is weighted incorrectly. For example, recently an authority figure addressed a group I belong to. The person speaking is highly respected among the group. He stated certain events occurred in a certain order at certain specific times. I simply checked the data which was readily available. He stated the order correctly but was way off when the events actually occurred. It completely changed the conclusion as to what actually happened. So why did the authority get it so wrong? IMO he was strongly attached to a theory, so saw the events the way that fit his theory. He made assumptions that simply wasn't in the data. He didn't deliberately lie because he said what he thought was true. (To note: self delusional individuals can seem very convincing and show no signs of lying.)
The there's nothing more hurtful than introducing your circle to someone who wishes to isolate you from your own friends... Thankfully in my your adult life I've found my soul tribe 🖤🥹
Playlist: ruclips.net/video/RnMmXTVOjBY/видео.html
I'm not an expert in Fallacies but I failed to see the correlation between the dialog and "Bandwagon Fallacy"
Early SImpsons was so much better on comparing family life with changing societal norms. Great social commentary. That kinda died around season 10 and eventually the show was just another pop culture icon that didnt mean anything.
I thought it was called ad populum but I guess it's also called that too
A more logical way of saying it would be just because more people believe something to be true does not mean they right.
The review of the simpsons episode is subjective opinion. Because both girl's are friendly and do not hurt anyone there for it's ok for both of them to be themselves.
Also Lisa has friends at home.😎💚💚
A more accurate way*
The word logical does not fit there at all.
Logic is a learned subject, and one has to actually study it to understand it.
Something the vast vast majority of people never do, yet they used the word like they understand it. 🙈
she made the mistake of appointing herself alex's personal welcome wagon, as a mask for her own intimacy deficiencies
She's a 9 year old girl trying to figure out how to socialise 😂
I don't think it's a bandwagon fallacy. I think Homer is just telling Lisa that if someone else is getting results that she wants to see, she should analyze what they're doing right and try to imitate them. It's not even bad advice.
This video is actually an awful (and incorrect) example of the "Argument ad populum" fallacy.
Here, Homer never said that if Lisa did what the majority did, she would be "correct" or "right." Instead, he argued that Lisa would be acting in her self-interest and would personally BENEFIT if she acted and behaved in the same way that most did.
Amusingly, this is NOT a fallacious argument. Please admit that this error for the sake of honesty. Thank you!
Not every example I use is an exact replica of the rule stated. I thought of using Homer's advice to Bart in "A Telltale Head," but thought this clip was funnier. Could this mislead those trying to learn from the video? Perhaps. But I think with the explanation I gave and your comment here, most will avoid that pitfall.
Look, I do recognize that I'm coming off as hostile and quite like a jerk here. I shouldn't have done that.
The thing is, though, that you seem to be glossing over my point: your claim in the video that, and I quote, "by advising Lisa to do something merely because it would bring popularity, Homer commits the bandwagon fallacy" is blatantly false. In fact, that is a tremendous butchering of what the bandwagon fallacy really is defined as. The main problem I see here is in your misunderstanding of the _definition_ of the bandwagon fallacy (including in the "A Telltale Head" example, which I will get into soon).
The bandwagon fallacy is when someone claims that something is *THE TRUTH* because many or most believe it. Even in the supposedly "better" example in "Bart in "A Telltale Head," Homer _still does not even_ commit the bandwagon fallacy.
There, Homer stated the following: "Being popular is the most important thing in the world." (Note: His claim never even _mentioned_ evaluating the truth value of any argument whatsoever.)
If we went by your definition of the bandwagon fallacy (doing something because it brings popularity), then you would be right that this counts as an example. Unfortunately for you, your definition itself is, as I have been trying to tell you all along, the real problem here. The bandwagon fallacy is committed, and I repeat, if and only if it takes the form of "If many believe the argument is true, then the argument is true," not your incorrect "If a person is doing it to bring popularity, it is fallacious reasoning."
As I have demonstrated, this all clearly indicates a misunderstanding on your part, not on mine. You should be willing to admit your mistake and correct your error.
I see now. Yes, you're right. Do you have another clip suggestion from the series that does display that fallacy?
+Colburn Classroom In a video called "The Simpsons - Isotopes Bandwagoner," it's implied that Homer is convinced by everyone else's beliefs because everyone seems to be believing it's true. It's not a perfect example, but it's implied pretty heavily.
I'm a full-blown heretic though because I never have watched the Simpsons... yeah... I'm not much help. Sorry.
Appreciate it. I'll take a look.
Seeing you using fallacies while failing to illustrate a fallacy is great comedy :D
@landon8214 He is strawmaning Homer's advice.
The whole video is not a good example of the Bandwagon Fallacy. Acting in a certain way to try to become popular is not the same as believing something is true because its popular.
In the video Homer suggest to Lisa that she should take some inspiration from the popular kid in order to be more popular.
The part where the popular kid ask who is the evil twin could have been a better example. If she believed it to be true because it's a widely spread idea that one of the twins must be evil, it would be a bandwagon fallacy, but we don't know that. She is probably simply making a joke based on horror movies cliche.
This is not the bandwagon fallacy, but I do see several people in the comment section leaping on the bandwagon that it is.
Homer's advice here is actually perfectly logical. If person A is popular, then it makes sense that if person B attempts to copy A they'll also be popular. Being popular gives many practical benefits (certainly more than being able to tell logical fallacies apart... )
Just as well they left without her.
I noticed Lisa had her finger in the food in her right hand.
Isn't that the hand she would use to offer the food?
Parents: Simpsons will never teach life lessons
Technically Homer would need to buy Lisa all of those things Alison had to make Lisa popular.
Error in this analysis is that Lisa is obviously upset that her friends liked Alex enough to ditch her, and “do what Alex does” is actually valid advice.
Monorail, monorail, monorail!
what is this episode called??? I wanna watch it 😂😂😂
"Lard of the Dance" (S10E1). It guest stars Lisa Kudrow who plays Phoebe Buffay on Friends.
is there a name for the revers version of this? 😂 i see a lot of people with the belief of "its popular, therefore it is bad"
KPop in nutshell
"band wagon fallacy"
For homer advising lisa to be who she is not good idea telling her that is good enough is what matters but lisa has to know that being confident matters.
Does anyone know what episode is this?
Thanks
Best father figure xDDDD
I thpught I was the only XD user left out here XDDD
@@blueyedevil1531 xddd
social conditioning.
Could be the next ted ed demon of reason video
She stole her friends
It’s not a logical fallacy
thank you for the video.
LIKE I'D EVER BE SEEN WITH A DISCOVER CARD xD
Climate alarmism
no
Like the global warming consensus. This also includes 'appealing to authority' fallacy as well.
@Cauane Andrade Weather and climate hasn't changed much since I grew up. Cyclical events and occasional extreme weather. Been like that for millions of years. I've only been around for about 70 years and have seen none of the predictions come true. At some point you stop listening to crying wolf. Especially when every year they predict disaster is only 10 years away. Al Gore started by predicted disaster in 5 years but that turned out to be ridiculous. Waiting for climate disasters is like waiting for the 2nd coming. It's soon but not too soon to keep contributions coming in. Sacrifice is part of also much like throwing virgins into a volcano to appease the wrath of the gods. Different year. Same all story because the human race is eternally gullible.
thats not how that fallacy works lol, having several people that are experts in the specific relevant field prove something objectively is different from a separate person of any form of authority claiming something, and is also different from many random people with varying experience claiming something
@@scribblecloud I don't understand what you are saying. By definition, fallacies don't work (prove anything). That's why they're called fallacies. What you call "working" is human social tendencies. It causes cognizance dissidence to be left out of a group. Humans will assume that they must be perceiving the issue incorrectly so will agree with the group. This is an even stronger tendency if they perceive that the group has authority or are credentialed. Even computers make mistakes, usually because the wrong data is fed in or the data is weighted incorrectly.
For example, recently an authority figure addressed a group I belong to. The person speaking is highly respected among the group. He stated certain events occurred in a certain order at certain specific times. I simply checked the data which was readily available. He stated the order correctly but was way off when the events actually occurred. It completely changed the conclusion as to what actually happened.
So why did the authority get it so wrong? IMO he was strongly attached to a theory, so saw the events the way that fit his theory. He made assumptions that simply wasn't in the data. He didn't deliberately lie because he said what he thought was true. (To note: self delusional individuals can seem very convincing and show no signs of lying.)
No. More like religion.
sorry but this is an awful representation of the fallacy
Yeah
Agreed
😂😂😂 agreed
The there's nothing more hurtful than introducing your circle to someone who wishes to isolate you from your own friends... Thankfully in my your adult life I've found my soul tribe 🖤🥹