Being a kid from the farm enjoy watching the tractor work/projects. Grew up around a guy who also had the same type of applied problem solving skills."Wel--l I can't do it today, let me think about it" Watching people/you that have it is entertaining enjoyment for me.
Good job Brian! Nice to see you using the dividing head. That was what I had planned on doing this past weekend before I decided it was high time to fix my milling machine.... I cut a pile of splines back in my machine shop days on the horizontal mill. Any reason you used the stub arbor running vertical rather than the horizontal arbor? The outboard support sure helps the cutter run with any deflection. We used the cut the entire depth in one pass that way which made making slight adjustments for fit much easier in a production situation.
Dan Whiteford Thanks Dan! I can say it required much tighter than factory tolerances to be able to put it all together. I am looking forward to it getting out on the track and being a true success.
I watched your video of precision and accuracy and learned that you are also a Mechanical Engineer. I AM happy that James Kilroy "liked" your metal mowing videos so that i got to see your Shop and your work. THAT IS ONE BAD ASS MILL DUDE! Now i understand the gaps in some filming processes. Hell you are too busy designing and building complex machinery to see if the filming has stopped. You are like me a little- pressing on to get the work done.I ran the shear dept. at a busy full out Fabrication Shop for a few years. I ran a 12 foot CINCINNATI CNC SHEAR.Take care You have newbie subscriber, and you have my respect and admiration. Congrats on your Expansion and building a bigger shop. Really cool stuff. I am looking forward to learning a lot more from your Media. -Keith
Keith Kelly Yep always busy busy! Just came in from finishing a job a few minutes ago, its 1AM here. Thanks for your comments and respect. I messed up some more filming this week, but I would far rather mess that up than the parts!!
Hello Bria, this is big work well done, the fit is looking excellent viewed from here, this is a big transmission and rear end, don't fit in the limited space left in my garage. Been working on a little heat treat oven with a PID to control the temperature, so far so good...
Brian when you do your cooling try to use a figure eight pattern for more even cooling all around the part. It's always nice to see the last spline fall into place Good Work
I always carborized 8620 to about .060 then drew it back to where you needed it. Any idea of hardness with your heat treat? With .02% carbon probably not much. You could have used 4140 as well but like you said 'getter done' lol !
Brian, nice work. I always enjoy the work with a dividing head. Just a couple ideas for your tailstock: buy a second hand one for a common 10" head and make a raising block for it until you make a 12" tailstock from scratch to your specs and liking. I know you don't have time so this would get you one quickly and then you can sell the 10" one back without much loss. Have you considered making a half center for your head which gives you more clearance for smaller diameter shafts? Just a thought. Daniel
AtelierDBurgoyne I have a few half centers. Since it seems unlikely I will find the correct tailstock I may end up trying to get one off a lathe of close size and modifying that to work.
Do you get brown outs in your town when you fire up that big Cincinatti machine? lol. Nice work on the spline cutting. Thanks for the video.... Btw, any updates on the Barn project?
turbocobra I have 3 more pieces to make then I should finally be caught up with shop work and can return to working on the barn. I am super excited about the overhead crane and getting my G&L fired up! Don't know about in town but the lights in my garage dim for 15seconds when i push go on the big Cin. :-)
Hi Brian, on a large percentage of the turning vids I see the cutting goes from right to left, but not so much in the reverse direction, is there a reason for that?
It mainly has to do with how you work part features and also as a general rule you want the largest part diameter to be in the chuck for maximum rigidity and holding power. Sometimes going the other way is better but not usually.
i've seen people sell their tailstocks in favor of blocks they put in their vice, that way they don't have to take off the vice and re-tram it afterwards of using the dividing head
meocats The adjustability and the ability to remove the work by cranking the tailstock out without disturbing the setup is very appealing to me. With the cobbled up setup I had it was actually easier to slide my vise than to try to setup my center again. My vise is keyed and when I push it forward against the keys it is always sub .001 across the 8in jaw face which I consider plenty good enough for most vise work.
If you are still looking for a tailstock, you can purchase new adjustable height tailstock at an industrial supply or eBay or used on eBay. Was that a regular gear tooth cutter you used to cut the spline? Thanks for the video.
Sure, some materials grow on heat treatment, some shrink, and lots warp. That is why for very tight clearances on heat treated parts they usually have to be finish ground.
Hi Brian! Yes this is a very late question from when you made this video. Lord knows that a ton of things have happened in the world since. I hope you and your family are doing well are safe. My question is on the cutter you used to cut the splines. What kind was it? Is it specific for splines? Thanks again for your videos..... I still enjoy watching them!!
Hi Brian, amazing work as usual, as I was watching, I was thinking how I was going to suggest a generic tailstock off a lathe that could be easily modified and have all the features of a standard dividing head tailstock [they always seem whimpy to me, and there may be good reason for that] and then some, but I see it's already been suggested. Since your dividing head is pretty heavy duty, it might be a really cool project and video too. Just my thoughts. Mike
I think I may have found the correct original tailstock......we shall see. The correct tailstock has angle abilities not found in a lathe so it is more versatile for milling forms.
Great video. One question though. it looked like you quenched the center in oil why did you use water for the spline shaft and oil for the center?? What is the difference?
Different materials need different quench rates to get proper hardness and to void cracking damage from the shock of quenching. The shaft material needed a very fast quench rate to achieve hardness so it was done in water. The center is a higher carbon material and is more prone to cracking but doesn't require a very fast quench rate to achiever very high hardness so a slow rate in oil is preferred. You can even buy quench oils that are intended for different quench rates. Some materials will quench in air and require nothing more to make them hard.
@@sinkosav No air quenching of 4140. If you don't want it very hard then you will do the appropriate elevated temperature temper to get the hardness you desire.
Brian, revisited this video to see if you explained the internal splines! understand making the male splines, but you made the shaft bigger, which means that you had the enlarge the hole to which the splined shaft mates. did you also do that? if so, how did you cut the internal splines?
+Fred Newman I made the shaft to match the larger existing splines of the shaft that I used from a different application. I did not do the internal splines. The internal splines would have been broached or perhaps even hot forged(like a socket) as the internal splines are in a blind hole.
thanks Brian, was just wondering as I have never seen a broach for cutting splines. have a torque amplifier handle off a IH 1066 that I need/want to remake (had to cut old one off, after someone had forced wrong sized spline pattern handle onto shaft) and had never run into cutting internal splines before!
Fred Newman check out the "My shop" thread by Reedeprentice on practical machinist he has many internal spline broaches and there are some pics of them as well early in the thread. Here is a video of him broaching a spline. ruclips.net/video/ChQjS_X_bb4/видео.html
Hi Brian Great video again just love those blue chips. As for setup it looked like it worked well and the end result was great bailey approved or not. Regards Mark Over the pond in the UK.
Mark Parkinson Baily doesn't like making do, he has been spoiled and as such prefers the right tools versus making shims, turning scrap and grinding parts to "get er done" . Bailys way is nice but sometimes you just have to do what it takes! :-)
Every do ford 35 spline axles . Im researching what exactly I need to do a set fr my ford 9". I have a 4 axis cnc so it should be difficult. Are you using a 90 degree double angle cutter? Carbide, cobalt or HSS .
I use an involute cutter designed for the proper spline. I have done 35Spline 1.5" axles for Dana60's before. I would think as common as Ford9" are that just about any configuration you can imagine is readily available in the aftermarket. I wouldn't waste my time resplining stock axles if that is what you had in mind as the material won't hold up if you throw the stuff to it, also if You can get rolled splines like some yukons instead of cut and they are far stronger.
Mark Rich Going to try to induction heat treat them or do you have access to an oven big enough to fit axles in? That would be pretty cool, wish I had one! :-) I get the proper cutters most of the time from ashgear.com/singlefull.htm
bcbloc02 I have a furnace big enough. I also do my own cast metal from time to time. It should be very easy to case harden and then temper . Thank you for the link.
@@bcbloc02 my father works at a machine shop here in Marquette. I'm just learning. Do you know what line bore machine is. Its a portable boring bar. Big demand here for reboring heavy equipment. Front end loaders and buckets. He welds up worn out ears and re machines them. He does large drive shafts. Also. Retube them. Put new yokes and stub shafts in them. He loves your videos. He runs boring mill. Bridge ports. Lathes. Surface grinder.
@@bcbloc02 imagine having to take apart a front end loader and shipping the frame down to a giant boring mill. My father's boss gets average about 1500 for a line bore job. About a day and a half time. And 7018 wire feed my father can build a line bore machine using a Bridgeport mill power feed unit. And a variable speed ELE moter for a drive. The new ones have a welder built in them. The one my father uses has a hydrolic driven. Unit.
Brian, I need some work on my Allis Chalmers 14 Tractor engine new piston sleaves and lower end overhaul. Its My Granddads tractor I grew up on. Do you machine Allis Chalmers Engines
A engine is an engine so I can machine pretty much any kind. I don't normally do stock work though as there are plenty of shops around that do that sort of thing. Where are you located?
bcbloc02 Thanks I am in Oregon City Oregon. Im looking for a shop to go through it and assemble the engine and I can install bolt it back up. I remember the head was rebuild in 1975 that shop is gone. I will keep researching I know there is alot of older tractors in you area. Thanks again
What shaft are you referring to? If you mean the 2spd shaft for use in a small frame tractor they should be not too hard to find in a salvage yard. The shaft in this video was of course totally custom and no such shaft was ever in production.
Hi Brian, Nice work on the splines! For hard turning, do you use regular carbide tooling? You didn't show that part. For the tailstock, I took a quick look on ebay and found this: www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-Dividing-Head-Tailstock-Adjustable-Tilting-1-1-4-12-/251862305741?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa429cbcd. You would have to look it over to see if it will work for you. The price seems high to me but maybe that's just the cost of playing with the big boy toys! I'll keep looking around. I've got some machinery dealers websites bookmarked, so I'll check through them. Thanks for the video. It's been a cool series! -mike
***** That is the right style Mike, but that one is for a 10" mine is a 12" and takes a slightly bigger one, weighs about 55lbs if you find the right one. I used that PCBN insert I showed in my hard turning video to finish the diameters.
Being a kid from the farm enjoy watching the tractor work/projects. Grew up around a guy who also had the same type of applied problem solving skills."Wel--l I can't do it today, let me think about it"
Watching people/you that have it is entertaining enjoyment for me.
Rick Brandt Thanks Rick. Glad to entertain! :-)
Good job Brian! Nice to see you using the dividing head. That was what I had planned on doing this past weekend before I decided it was high time to fix my milling machine.... I cut a pile of splines back in my machine shop days on the horizontal mill. Any reason you used the stub arbor running vertical rather than the horizontal arbor? The outboard support sure helps the cutter run with any deflection. We used the cut the entire depth in one pass that way which made making slight adjustments for fit much easier in a production situation.
Another beautiful video of precision work which proved to be very successful, well done indeed.
Dan Whiteford Thanks Dan! I can say it required much tighter than factory tolerances to be able to put it all together. I am looking forward to it getting out on the track and being a true success.
That would be thrilling to see!
I watched your video of precision and accuracy and learned that you are also a Mechanical Engineer. I AM happy that James Kilroy "liked" your metal mowing videos so that i got to see your Shop and your work. THAT IS ONE BAD ASS MILL DUDE!
Now i understand the gaps in some filming processes. Hell you are too busy designing and building complex machinery to see if the filming has stopped. You are like me a little- pressing on to get the work done.I ran the shear dept. at a busy full out Fabrication Shop for a few years. I ran a 12 foot CINCINNATI CNC SHEAR.Take care You have newbie subscriber, and you have my respect and admiration. Congrats on your Expansion and building a bigger shop. Really cool stuff. I am looking forward to learning a lot more from your Media. -Keith
Keith Kelly Yep always busy busy! Just came in from finishing a job a few minutes ago, its 1AM here. Thanks for your comments and respect. I messed up some more filming this week, but I would far rather mess that up than the parts!!
My point exactly.THX for the reply.
Keith Kelly I
Hello Bria, this is big work well done, the fit is looking excellent viewed from here, this is a big transmission and rear end, don't fit in the limited space left in my garage.
Been working on a little heat treat oven with a PID to control the temperature, so far so good...
pierre beaudry oupse... add an "n" to "Bria" sorry...!
pierre beaudry No problem Pierre, I look forward to seeing how your little oven works. I am happy with how the job turned out, it was a lot of work.
0:24 "going to make a cobbled up setup" Ha, nicely done.
Brian when you do your cooling try to use a figure eight pattern for more even cooling all around the part. It's always nice to see the last spline fall into place Good Work
THE IRONWORKER When it all fits together like it is supposed to it is an excellent feeling! Thanks for the tip.
Another job well done and out the door.
I always carborized 8620 to about .060 then drew it back to where you needed it. Any idea of hardness with your heat treat? With .02% carbon probably not much. You could have used 4140 as well but like you said 'getter done' lol !
Another great video! Best of luck locating your tailstock. I tried!
Thanks for sharing!
Brian, nice work. I always enjoy the work with a dividing head. Just a couple ideas for your tailstock: buy a second hand one for a common 10" head and make a raising block for it until you make a 12" tailstock from scratch to your specs and liking. I know you don't have time so this would get you one quickly and then you can sell the 10" one back without much loss.
Have you considered making a half center for your head which gives you more clearance for smaller diameter shafts? Just a thought. Daniel
AtelierDBurgoyne I have a few half centers. Since it seems unlikely I will find the correct tailstock I may end up trying to get one off a lathe of close size and modifying that to work.
@@bcbloc02 they aren’t that hard to make.
Do you get brown outs in your town when you fire up that big Cincinatti machine? lol. Nice work on the spline cutting. Thanks for the video.... Btw, any updates on the Barn project?
turbocobra I have 3 more pieces to make then I should finally be caught up with shop work and can return to working on the barn. I am super excited about the overhead crane and getting my G&L fired up! Don't know about in town but the lights in my garage dim for 15seconds when i push go on the big Cin. :-)
Can you tell me the specification of the milling cutter used to cut the spline? About angle profiles and more. Thanks.
that's the most whoop ass ridin lawn mower transmission ever! lol
"That lazy machinist" uses an angle block as a tail stock with a center in it at the correct height.
Hi Brian, on a large percentage of the turning vids I see the cutting goes from right to left, but not so much in the reverse direction, is there a reason for that?
It mainly has to do with how you work part features and also as a general rule you want the largest part diameter to be in the chuck for maximum rigidity and holding power. Sometimes going the other way is better but not usually.
i've seen people sell their tailstocks in favor of blocks they put in their vice, that way they don't have to take off the vice and re-tram it afterwards of using the dividing head
meocats The adjustability and the ability to remove the work by cranking the tailstock out without disturbing the setup is very appealing to me. With the cobbled up setup I had it was actually easier to slide my vise than to try to setup my center again. My vise is keyed and when I push it forward against the keys it is always sub .001 across the 8in jaw face which I consider plenty good enough for most vise work.
This is true ... make a retractable quill block?
If you are still looking for a tailstock, you can purchase new adjustable height tailstock at an industrial supply or eBay or used on eBay. Was that a regular gear tooth cutter you used to cut the spline? Thanks for the video.
I actually wound up finding the correct tailstock.
That is one hell of expensive repair. Hat off! By the way, have you ever run into problem of things don't fit after heat treatment?
Sure, some materials grow on heat treatment, some shrink, and lots warp. That is why for very tight clearances on heat treated parts they usually have to be finish ground.
Thanks, that is very informative.
Hi Brian! Yes this is a very late question from when you made this video. Lord knows that a ton of things have happened in the world since. I hope you and your family are doing well are safe.
My question is on the cutter you used to cut the splines. What kind was it? Is it specific for splines?
Thanks again for your videos..... I still enjoy watching them!!
Yes it was a cutter for involute splines.
@@bcbloc02 Thank you much. What's the height that the tail stock needs to be? Around 7"?
Rolando Escobar I have since found and used the correct tailstock for the dividing head
@@bcbloc02
Ok. I'm glad to hear you did. Again, thanks for your videos amigo! Stay safe.
Hi Brian, amazing work as usual, as I was watching, I was thinking how I was going to suggest a generic tailstock off a lathe that could be easily modified and have all the features of a standard dividing head tailstock [they always seem whimpy to me, and there may be good reason for that] and then some, but I see it's already been suggested. Since your dividing head is pretty heavy duty, it might be a really cool project and video too. Just my thoughts.
Mike
I think I may have found the correct original tailstock......we shall see. The correct tailstock has angle abilities not found in a lathe so it is more versatile for milling forms.
Great video. One question though. it looked like you quenched the center in oil why did you use water for the spline shaft and oil for the center?? What is the difference?
Different materials need different quench rates to get proper hardness and to void cracking damage from the shock of quenching. The shaft material needed a very fast quench rate to achieve hardness so it was done in water. The center is a higher carbon material and is more prone to cracking but doesn't require a very fast quench rate to achiever very high hardness so a slow rate in oil is preferred. You can even buy quench oils that are intended for different quench rates. Some materials will quench in air and require nothing more to make them hard.
That makes sense. Thanks for the reply. I'm going to be making some new dead centers for my lathe as was wondering how to quench harden them.
@@bcbloc02 Brian ,did 4140 will harden just in air? i dont need very high hardness
@@sinkosav No air quenching of 4140. If you don't want it very hard then you will do the appropriate elevated temperature temper to get the hardness you desire.
Brian, revisited this video to see if you explained the internal splines! understand making the male splines, but you made the shaft bigger, which means that you had the enlarge the hole to which the splined shaft mates. did you also do that? if so, how did you cut the internal splines?
+Fred Newman I made the shaft to match the larger existing splines of the shaft that I used from a different application. I did not do the internal splines. The internal splines would have been broached or perhaps even hot forged(like a socket) as the internal splines are in a blind hole.
thanks Brian, was just wondering as I have never seen a broach for cutting splines. have a torque amplifier handle off a IH 1066 that I need/want to remake (had to cut old one off, after someone had forced wrong sized spline pattern handle onto shaft) and had never run into cutting internal splines before!
Fred Newman
check out the "My shop" thread by Reedeprentice on practical machinist he has many internal spline broaches and there are some pics of them as well early in the thread. Here is a video of him broaching a spline. ruclips.net/video/ChQjS_X_bb4/видео.html
Hi Brian
Great video again just love those blue chips.
As for setup it looked like it worked well and the end result was great bailey approved or not.
Regards Mark
Over the pond in the UK.
Mark Parkinson Baily doesn't like making do, he has been spoiled and as such prefers the right tools versus making shims, turning scrap and grinding parts to "get er done" . Bailys way is nice but sometimes you just have to do what it takes! :-)
Every do ford 35 spline axles . Im researching what exactly I need to do a set fr my ford 9". I have a 4 axis cnc so it should be difficult. Are you using a 90 degree double angle cutter? Carbide, cobalt or HSS .
I use an involute cutter designed for the proper spline. I have done 35Spline 1.5" axles for Dana60's before. I would think as common as Ford9" are that just about any configuration you can imagine is readily available in the aftermarket. I wouldn't waste my time resplining stock axles if that is what you had in mind as the material won't hold up if you throw the stuff to it, also if You can get rolled splines like some yukons instead of cut and they are far stronger.
bcbloc02
Yes there available @ 1000$ for a pair of 300m axles. This why I became a machinist.
Still if they were cheaper I would still make them.
Mark Rich
Going to try to induction heat treat them or do you have access to an oven big enough to fit axles in? That would be pretty cool, wish I had one! :-) I get the proper cutters most of the time from ashgear.com/singlefull.htm
bcbloc02
I have a furnace big enough. I also do my own cast metal from time to time. It should be very easy to case harden and then temper .
Thank you for the link.
Mark Rich
I would enjoy seeing the casting and heat treating if you ever do some videos on it.
Get yourself a McMaster catalog we order something every day from them. They deliver next day No charge.
You must have a better account, I always have freight charges on my mcmaster stuff.
@@bcbloc02 my father works at a machine shop here in Marquette. I'm just learning. Do you know what line bore machine is. Its a portable boring bar. Big demand here for reboring heavy equipment. Front end loaders and buckets. He welds up worn out ears and re machines them. He does large drive shafts. Also. Retube them. Put new yokes and stub shafts in them. He loves your videos. He runs boring mill. Bridge ports. Lathes. Surface grinder.
@@kellybelanger5836 Yes I am familiar with portable line boring machines as well. Glad you dad enjoys, sounds like he does similar work to me. :-)
@@bcbloc02 imagine having to take apart a front end loader and shipping the frame down to a giant boring mill. My father's boss gets average about 1500 for a line bore job. About a day and a half time. And 7018 wire feed my father can build a line bore machine using a Bridgeport mill power feed unit. And a variable speed ELE moter for a drive. The new ones have a welder built in them. The one my father uses has a hydrolic driven. Unit.
Brian, I need some work on my Allis Chalmers 14 Tractor engine new piston sleaves and lower end overhaul. Its My Granddads tractor I grew up on. Do you machine Allis Chalmers Engines
A engine is an engine so I can machine pretty much any kind. I don't normally do stock work though as there are plenty of shops around that do that sort of thing. Where are you located?
bcbloc02 Thanks I am in Oregon City Oregon. Im looking for a shop to go through it and assemble the engine and I can install bolt it back up. I remember the head was rebuild in 1975 that shop is gone. I will keep researching I know there is alot of older tractors in you area. Thanks again
What are the options for correcting this situation? The shafts are currently out of production.
What shaft are you referring to? If you mean the 2spd shaft for use in a small frame tractor they should be not too hard to find in a salvage yard. The shaft in this video was of course totally custom and no such shaft was ever in production.
I see the pic didn't go through. I'll try later.
Second try... Can't paste it in here. Will try email.
What's your email? It's a KTM countershaft.
bcbloc02 at yahoo dot com
Get r done son
what your metal chose?
8620
@@bcbloc02 we use 17 4ph stainless it don't shrink or expand after heat treat.
Hi Brian,
Nice work on the splines! For hard turning, do you use regular carbide tooling? You didn't show that part. For the tailstock, I took a quick look on ebay and found this: www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-Dividing-Head-Tailstock-Adjustable-Tilting-1-1-4-12-/251862305741?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa429cbcd. You would have to look it over to see if it will work for you. The price seems high to me but maybe that's just the cost of playing with the big boy toys! I'll keep looking around. I've got some machinery dealers websites bookmarked, so I'll check through them. Thanks for the video. It's been a cool series!
-mike
***** That is the right style Mike, but that one is for a 10" mine is a 12" and takes a slightly bigger one, weighs about 55lbs if you find the right one. I used that PCBN insert I showed in my hard turning video to finish the diameters.
2015, wonder why RUclips is pushing this right now?
badò!