It would also help if your whole body is paralyzed except for your eye muscles and your arms, forearms, hands and fingers and that you couldn't physically blink.
And maybe, get a time machine and steal the best gaming computer from 5020 and bring it back to the present. so that you had 500 TB of storage 0.00001 nanoseconds of all around tech delay, 500 TB of RAM and an RTX 6080 Ti, an intel core i900 and a framerate of 1000 fps normal fps. aaaannnnd a case that can fit 20 fans that can spin up to 100,000 rpm so that ur pc is literally ice cold :) *me being a nerd be like*
I'd love to see this expanded on. Cheap amazon "gaming" mice, Lower end wireless mice. Bluetooth vs 2.4ghz. Other wireless gaming mice that don't make those claims. Standard office mice. Basically everything. It would also be a cool benchmark to include in mouse reviews.
I've gamed on the HP business mouse, its a comfortable mouse and stuff like frame rates and the monitor's response time are more noticeable than the mouse.
I wouldn't quite call it scientific. For example, he concluded people who can tell a difference between 500 and 1000 polling rate are just imagining it and he even says that even if there's a difference you wouldn't be able to tell because your monitor does not have the required refresh rate. I have 2 problems with this. First, there are more ways than just seeing the delay to tell apart polling rates and other kinds of input lag. Second, a monitor's refresh rate doesn't limit your ability to perceive more information, even if the monitor can't display all of the information. Neither of these things were tested, they actually just tested the difference in delay between different products/settings and not whether you could tell them apart, but they still went ahead and concluded something about something they didn't test.
@TMCicuurd12b42 Most competitive games take the raw input data from the mouse to move the camera and stuff like that. That means that your mouse speed DOES matter since your games are getting the movement data as soon as the mouse can send it (or to be more exact: as soon as is can be polled)
MX Anywhere appears on screen. Me - " Hey that's my mouse!" Linus - " This mouse was by far the worst compared to all of the other mice" Me - *dies inside because I have failed lord Linus*
@dragonia gaming he meant starcraft the game that uses strategy and skill to beat it. Minecraft is for kids that suck at strategy point and click games. I had a friend who played starcraft non stop its pretty fun but i like final fantasy way more.
Phiwatec why a PS/2 ports? The disadvantage of not being hot swappable far out way the advantage of 0 latency. Ever had your mouse freeze up on you before? I have had that happen. And it would suck if I had to restart the entire PC just because of that. But with PS/2, you have to restart it.
@@Comanglia yes and No, If the game Runs a much lower framerate because of GPU limitation, then no antilag in the world is gonna do shit because then you are framerate limited
@@Comanglia Snyctech is working with finished rendered frames and does not give a shit about CPU setup, so this cant even work, also 30 FPS magically reduced by 20ms? No, wont happen, If your CPU would be able of 100 a second, that would be 10ms there, so even if you were able to completly ignore the CPU you would not get 20ms out of it
They didn't test with the dongle plugged directly into the PC and under the desk, like a large number of users would do with their actual home set ups.
The Indoor Outdoorsman If my shitty Bluetooth dongle doesn’t miss a beat when paired to my Xbox Controller then this shouldn’t have any issue either 😄.
Masaliantiikeri might as well compare Mac as well even tho no one games on them... I also sort of want to see the latency with the Magic Mouse and other styles of mice
@@jackhaynes8944 Even if Macs had lower latency they would be awful for gaming simply due to Mac OS's baked in mouse acceleration. You absolutely need 1 to 1 mouse movement for any competitive gaming.
Windows might be faster than Linux but I would love to see the test as well. Windows allows direct hardware communication across layers while Linux forces everything to go all the way down and up the stack through layers to ensure that nothing funny happens. The result is that Windows offers faster performance, but is also susceptible to Blue Screens of Death because hardware can get signals from multiple locations at the same time, whereas that never happens in Linux because everything has to wait in line and go through the hardware stack. There is no direct hardware access that I know of in Linux. These two modes I'm talking about have names I just can't remember what they are right now.
Please retest that with different sensor´s, connection & different price ranges! That would be really cool. Even more if you could test it over both axis and maby even how correct movement is translated. :)
Oh I can see why I am noob now I have more than 30ms latency I have more than 150ms ping I have less than 40 FPS But most importantly I don't have skills
Conclusion: Latencies are so low nowadays, it isn't human detectable. This wired vs wireless discussion was perhaps an issue 2 decades back, but these days it's so small it not detectable on screen.
The MX Master 3 is quite terrible in terms of latency and consistency, it's even way worse on bluetooth. The old wired G5 laser from 15 or so years ago is just much better.
@@rey_nemaattori I feel like they're improving things while deliberately downgrading others so they can send you a new and improved version to repeat the cycle. Recently got a Logi G603, tracking is great, latency is great (also still decent on bluetooth), love the quiet mouse wheel. The sound when releasing the side buttons makes me mad though, like a tiny ruler at the edge of the desk. Never had that problem on any Logitech mouse.
@WilliamCBells Havent really noticed this, my first cordless mouse still works, even though I've replaced it with a corded laser mouse like 2 decades ago.
@@hsojom3 Yeah I'm pretty impressed. But he didn't try PS/2 port yet. It simple means they have created a wireless hardware set that has basically 1ms or less response time so it is indistinguishable.
@@thedanzero The Logitech MX518 test is a fair enough comparison, because it uses the exact same sensor the G703 has anyways...unless that was the G703 non-Hero variant, which would be worse.
this is pure marketing bs, if anyone believes linus makes these videos for any other reason than because he got paid from these companies then... he is probably subscribed to this channel. yes, wireless can be just as fast as a wired mouse, but under what circumstances? if he truly wanted to show the pros and cons of this, he would have done this video differently. i wonder how much logitech has to pay to convince thousands of people to buy a wireless mouse because of 1 video.
@@leet137 I'm going to say I have a Logitech G305 (gaming wireless mouse) and it has no input lag compared to wired. The dongle needs to be relatively close to your mousepad tho and 2.4ghz signals can interfere with the signal.
@@leet137 .... Um, Logitech sells wireless and wired versions of some of their G-series mice, so they don't care which you buy; they get your money either way. Linux gets paid to advertise things, not to lie about product tests. It's more than a bit harsh to claim that this test is somehow rigged to help sell mice. Most of the viewers of this video *already* own expensive gaming mice; that's why they were interested in seeing wired versus wireless. Linus must, by U.S. law and RUclips policy, tell us when he has been given products to review and when companies pay him to make a video. If you find out that he dishonestly made a propaganda video without disclosing the sponsorship, then feel free to turn him in. There are certainly things going on behind the scenes with youtube channels that the audience doesn't find out about, but these are mostly personal and business issues that they don't want to make public. Linus and this channel certainly need a constant stream of new and expensive products coming out in order to create their own constant stream of videos that will get viewed by millions of people, but that doesn't mean that he's being paid to illegally rig up a fake test without divulging the advertisement. On top of that, why would a channel receiving multiple millions of views per video *plus* sponsors for each of those videos *need* to do rigged tests to take under-the-table money from Logitech? If any channel does this, then I hope they get caught. Yes, youtube channels can be sleazy and they are trying to consume your attention just like Facebook, Instagram, and all of the other life-draining distractions surrounding us and destroying human society, but that doesn't mean that they're also involved in some secret pay-for-test-results scheme.
@@leet137 Thanks! 🙂 I'm also not buying any of these mice and my phone is a used one from 2016. I'm the guy people come to for advice, so let's hope I'm not *too* naive. Stay paranoid, my friend 😋.
Meh, that wasn't what they were testing though. This was about whether or not the wireless increased latency over wired. Their selection was adequate to show that.
The main advantage of Logitech Hero Sensor (over 3360) is 10x energy efficiency (for wireless operation). DPI increase from 12000 to 16000 is unlikely to be noticeable.
I've owned two versions of the 3360 over the course of 2 years and now I have Hero G pro wireless and it is the first time I can very honestly say... I can 100% tell you that the Hero is an improvement over the 3360 at fast tracking speeds. If you use high sensitivity, I don't think you would be able to tell. However, I use a very low sensitivity (always have) as I stated before, it is more consistent with large/fast arm movements. CS GO 400dpi at 1.2
2:00 This feedback loop delay is what I (and many others, I'm sure) discovered in 1991, and Carmack discovered when he started gathering components for the Oculus. Results were as expected, thanks for the video measuring it. :)
Cool topic!! Some suggestions to make it more "scientific": - use median instead of average - instead of filming a screen, which still has fairly high response times, use a Raspberry Pi, that turns on a led when the mouse moves - if you do what I described in point 2, you have less setup time, so please use a bigger sample size
Why median _instead_ of average? Lag spikes and lag "crevices" are things we do care about in practical use and thus one of the metrics should account for then.
@@Leo-ir6ey You want to measure the actual and precise response time, the point of the video was to check if the wireless will be the same as the wired and they did that very well. But I wouldn't mind seeing more mouses, not including zowie and steelseries is a shame especially since zowie dominates cs go.
@@redshirt510 Yeah, the part where they compared wired vs. wireless was pretty much flawless (because they are only checking if the times are roughly equal). I was referencing the last part where they compared reponse times of different mice. To do that accuratly, you must measure the actual response time accuratly.
Particularly for mobile phones. I am unhappy with the black-to-darkgray response time on my oneplue 6, and want to avoid that in the future when I buy a new phone after a couple of years.
Has any one find a 1000 hz display... sound like a nice thing. Here motion blure 1000 herz. Aliens. www.blurbusters.com/blur-busters-law-amazing-journey-to-future-1000hz-displays-with-blurfree-sample-and-hold/
@Warm Soft Kitty REALLY YOU CAN'T BUY THEM AND NO ONE USES THEM? In theory you can reduce the resolution to get a 1000hertz single. www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/632863-REG/Ikegami_HTM1990R_HTM_1990_R_19_HDTV_SDTV_Multi_Format.html?ap=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=CjwKCAjwx_boBRA9EiwA4kIELuZj94eAhDVdgf7cT4iLBF9oGYRAlBAkriUzMP4xgKeRasYFbhNdgRoC23sQAvD_BwE
@@hmorris This isn't always the case. What you mean is palm grip where hand applies weight to the mouse from above, but many people support the hand elsewhere and grab the mouse between the thumb and little finger for faster movement and better control, finger and claw grips. Many people also have somewhat hybrid grip, where they release the palm grip and shift towards another grip for a moment now and then, probably without noticing it. Furthermore even when palming, it's possible to roll the mouse on the edge and thus lift off the sensor if your mouse is light enough and you're moving it very quickly.
This was a very scientific test. I am shocked they went thru all this. I am impressed and prefer wireless any day over wired. (: Now, I truly have no reason to have wired devices.
Are you going to do more tests with more mice? Maybe the Logitech 903, Logitech M510 (for another non gaming mouse comparison), and some razer mice? Maybe also see how much of a difference it is between expensive mice and cheap ones for both wired and wireless.
Something i feel the need to point out in this video: A 1000hz polling rate IS good to have. But _Not for input latency._ It's much better for more accurate tracking. If you like to aim by flicking your mouse from point A to point B then back to A again in a pretty small fraction of a second, it's _very_ noticeable. 1000Hz can make the same "flick" motion give much more consistent results than 500hz can.
This is one of your coolest vids, the combo of the high speed camera, hammer, 240hz monitor. There was a lot of cool stuff in this video, and it wasn't too technical or boring. Linus seemed really excited by the test, I have to agree
Totally agree with you but they shot several video's where they use a high speed camera for the short time they rented it. To add to that the high speed camera needs a ridiculous amount of light so they can only shoot during the day. Though it would have been very interesting.
This is an underrated comment. Gamers complain that a mouse, keyboard, or even monitor has a millisecond more of response time then another when our eyes and our own response times can't even tell the difference. It's so silly.
I think you just don't get the way we think. We don't just want 60 fps or a 144hz monitor or a 1000hz mouse. We want AS MUCH STATS AS POSSIBLE. Infinite frames, infinite refresh rates etc. That way the only thing stopping you from being the best is yourself. It doesn't matter whether or not you can tell the difference, it's about knowing that your failures are your own fault. Knowing that reduces frustration and burnout. It's basically all about having a competitive spirit.
I understand your point but the point here is that for so long wireless mice have been seen as far inferior in gaming applications. To see that difference is negligible is the point of this video. Personally I wouldn't have ever considered a wireless mouse but after this the convenience of no cord does sound pretty nice.
it's the same in sports. people wants the official NBA basket ball to play even in high school. they want the same shoes that the champions are using, etc.
I loved the school science project feel of this video. Brought back memories. And the data is very interesting. Looks like the best wireless mice can now actually match wired mice in responsiveness!
Please also test Steelseries mouses if you ever planning to do a second video on this. Steelseries has a great reputation in it's sensors and response time, but never see them back in these type of testing videos.
its going to be the same. all top end mice are pretty much the same at this point. the difference between zowie, logitech, steelseries, etc sensors are so minimal it doesnt matter. all that really matters now is weight and shape. all of the high end mice including steelseries will be around the 10-15ms avg. in no way shape or form a noticeable difference even in the slightest.
OS has nothing to do with that. Games have direct input function to avoid adding latency. Also why would you test mouse difference over distances if you are not gonna use it from 15mts far? That's unreal.
@@ladrillorojo4996 It has, drivers are just another level of overhead. Only PS/2 connections would make a difference as they are designed to be handled as interrupts by the CPU. The rest goes through the kernel and how it handles USB polling. On top of that, you have the USB drivers and on top of that you got the mouse drivers. Also, not all USB ports are made equal, some are connected through the chipset some are connected directly to the CPU, you got to account for the comm overhead of the chipset and the CPU. Generally PCs are pretty terrible at real-time tasks, with Unix based systems being a bit better, but still not good enough.
Idk about imagining the mouses hz. My Logitech G502 feels “off” when at 500hz. Actually took me a while to find the option to increase it to 1000 which felt so much smoother.
But as he said, how are you running any piece of equipment that is capable of discerning the difference? Even if you believe you can, how is your monitor capable of displaying the difference?
@@zero_grav_original Maybe it has to do more with the amount of data the computer gets per hz to position the mouse. It seems that since the mouse is sending its signal more often even though your monitor doesn't show it your pc does seem to be able to convert that 1000hz into an input. Of course, I'm just hypothesizing, I can't test this.
it would have a 125hz polling rate. so this means atleast 8ms response time from the mouse (unlike the 1ms from the other mice, excluding the slight add on latency). id say expect an extra 7ms
interesting. this raises additional questions: the type of usb port used (2 / 3 /3.1) the type of MB + CPU (amd vs intel) so testing the full IO path, from the mouse to the CPU
im no expert so maybe there was a reason for not doing this, but they could have gotten a wireless mouse that has an attachable wire so it would be the exact same mouse
the polling rate of mice doesnt effect the quickness of how fast the initial movement is, but rather how many times the mouse responds while it is moving. It effects the 'jitteryness' of the mouse at high sensitivities, and is easier to notice on hard surfaces when you are trying to have perfectly smooth movement. It is easier on a 500hz polling rate do this over 1000 hz because of the inability of the human hand to be 100% smooth all of the time. 500hz seems to even this inconsistency out. Awesome testing for everything else though.
It absolutely affects the initial movement. Let's say you have a mouse that polls once a minute, the initial movement occurring just after a poll would mean an approximate 60s wait to the initial movement on the screen. If that same mouse polled twice a minute then the max wait is now approximately 30s. If polling rate is the only thing that changes then the lower the delay between polls, the quicker you see your initial movement on the screen.
Linus gets our pain of hearing him state the same advert with the same segway for the 1000th time, God bless him for making 10 second ad slots knowingly so we can just double tap and skip it
@@itrisky773 its whatever Linus and his sponsors agree on. Linus is a huge youtuber with multiple channels, so I'm thinking he has the edge when negotiating a contract.
Hey @linus, there is a problem on your analysis. Actually you are not testing the 'delay' but you are testing the 'remote wake-up' delay (which is on the USB PROTOCOL). Quick explaination: when you leave your usb idle for long periods of time (which for a computer is something like 20ms) your USB connection (host(computer) and device(mouse)) switch for a 'suspend' state. For leaving the suspending state the device (mouse) issue an remote-wakeup command (which is inverting the lines dp/dm of the usb) it does it for something like 14ms. i think that is what you are mainly measuring. Maybe a good test would be 'shaking' the mouse to see how much time between your hand changes directions and the cs:go players does. (source: I design microcontrollers for a living )
Yup. I think they should probably have tested this with the mouse constantly in motion, and using a mouse button press as the "trigger". I also don't really understand why they didn't solder wires to the mouse button so they can trigger it precisely without a weird swinging hammer and metallized tape.... This entire thing could have been measuried automatically using a serial port to both trigger and record information at much, much higher rates than the screen can update.
@ Linus Tech Tips There is a noticeable difference between 500 and 1000 polling rate and that is a bit more complex than just input delay. That claim that the difference is not noticeable is understandable if you only look at input delay without considering that polling rate is a communication limit. The mouse sends reports to the computer with changing rates depending on the mouse speed and my mouse report rates hover around 700 during precise aiming and cap out at 1000 when I look around in-game. It's quite hard to move my mouse slow enough to get less than 500 reports per second so it would make sense to cap the communication rate to 500 to always be at the same polling rate. When the rate is set at 1000 I'd have 2 different things happening when playing games and that is a fluctuating polling rate during aiming and capped polling rate during movement which causes jitter that is visible in slowed down recordings.
I’ve used a lot of different wired gaming mouses and for the longest time I was skeptical about switching over to a wireless one due to it not being as responsive. That’s until I got my wireless g pro and I honestly cannot tell the difference or go back to a wired mouse. Regardless of the science behind it the human eye cannot tell the difference between the two and it responds just as fast as my wired mouses in the past.
they should've at least put the mice on a track so all movement from the hammer strike was in a straight path and the starting point would be the same. Seems like a low effort improvement
@@tycho_m why does it even matter if it's a straight line? Or if it's the same starting point? We wanna know if it move when it gets hits. Not how far it goes or how fast it moves X meters.
As silly as this idea is, you should have compared it to a PS/2 mouse as well. It would be interesting to see the difference between USB polling and hardware interrupts.
Would be nice to get an updated video on both this and the monitor comparison (with wired mice hitting 8000Hz polling rates now). Have told people so many times that wired vs wireless ultimately comes down to user preference when you're buying mid to high end products. Some people swear wireless is better and others wired, yet at the end of the day it's just a preference. While technically wired mice have higher performance now (just like they did in the video) the difference is so negligible that it again comes down to preference. Just like you guys proved that in monitor refresh rate once you go from 60Hz to144Hz anything higher than 144 makes a negligible difference. With wired hitting 8000Hz and monitor refresh rates having increased a bit. I honestly wonder if from 1000Hz to 8000Hz is even noticeable as it does seem like a massive gap, 144Hz to 360Hz as well with monitors (think in the monitor video 240Hz was the last variable). I assume that it would remain the same and users would think they could notice a difference, but it's just someone wanting to feel good about the product (ownership pride) they own causing a confirmation bias.
I love how LTT became basically mythbusters for tech/gaming.
New channel idea.. "Tech Busters" or a Linus only channel called "Durability"
Linus MythTechBusters!!!!!
@@viper3905gt "this week on durability, ill drop this 5000$ monitor"
or drop the $1000 stand
@@viper3905gt I'm not sure, "Tech Busters" reminded me of tech rax.
Doesnt matter bacause my brain lag is a whole 1 second
Gurta that’s a mood
Gurta mines a whole year
Gurta xaxa
@@MediocreMolly mines a century
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
"Dude, I lost because the light from the monitor couldn't reach my eyes fast enough"
Just move your face closer to the monitor, duh
It helps if the air doesn’t interfere with ur vision :)
It would also help if your whole body is paralyzed except for your eye muscles and your arms, forearms, hands and fingers and that you couldn't physically blink.
And maybe, get a time machine and steal the best gaming computer from 5020 and bring it back to the present. so that you had 500 TB of storage 0.00001 nanoseconds of all around tech delay, 500 TB of RAM and an RTX 6080 Ti, an intel core i900 and a framerate of 1000 fps normal fps. aaaannnnd a case that can fit 20 fans that can spin up to 100,000 rpm so that ur pc is literally ice cold :) *me being a nerd be like*
@@kaden_772 You made it too long that it's not funny anymore
Now seeing no beard linus is just a meme for my eyes
Fax
Hi in 2020
I didn't even notice it's him.I just got this in my recommended and look familiar to me.:)
Yeah lol
Yes
I'd love to see this expanded on. Cheap amazon "gaming" mice, Lower end wireless mice. Bluetooth vs 2.4ghz. Other wireless gaming mice that don't make those claims. Standard office mice. Basically everything.
It would also be a cool benchmark to include in mouse reviews.
Bluetooth is on 2.4ghz?
Hell yeah. Ergonomic mice and (although it would require a new apparatus) various TouchStyk/"nipple" mice would be fascinating as well.
Dude.
Trackpad latency.
Think about that huh.
Also different sensor quality ?
I've gamed on the HP business mouse, its a comfortable mouse and stuff like frame rates and the monitor's response time are more noticeable than the mouse.
I honestly love the fact that Linus is doing a lot of these fairly scientist rigorous testing of tech. It really cuts through the marketing B's.
@@recko1269 think before typing, specially saying.
I wouldn't quite call it scientific. For example, he concluded people who can tell a difference between 500 and 1000 polling rate are just imagining it and he even says that even if there's a difference you wouldn't be able to tell because your monitor does not have the required refresh rate.
I have 2 problems with this. First, there are more ways than just seeing the delay to tell apart polling rates and other kinds of input lag. Second, a monitor's refresh rate doesn't limit your ability to perceive more information, even if the monitor can't display all of the information.
Neither of these things were tested, they actually just tested the difference in delay between different products/settings and not whether you could tell them apart, but they still went ahead and concluded something about something they didn't test.
@@recko1269 Without someone like Linus to call out BS when it does happen, they'd get away with falsifying their claims.
You know or they could test properly instead of using a bunch of extra hardware...
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Mouse_polling_rate
@TMCicuurd12b42 Most competitive games take the raw input data from the mouse to move the camera and stuff like that. That means that your mouse speed DOES matter since your games are getting the movement data as soon as the mouse can send it (or to be more exact: as soon as is can be polled)
*Loses CS:GO game*
Sorry, my mouse was 1 ms off
That'd be the clip of the century, that's up there with people shooting each other but the bullets collide instead.
RockBoy123 hahahahahahhaha really
mike in a can 😂😂😂😂😂😂
sorry guys i got a pentium and intel hd graphics
Honestly that’s why i came here
MX Anywhere appears on screen.
Me - " Hey that's my mouse!"
Linus - " This mouse was by far the worst compared to all of the other mice"
Me - *dies inside because I have failed lord Linus*
Honestly same
Jacob Linton *forgive me mighty lord linus*
OOF
Well for gaming... its just not the mouse. I have it for work and Im a big fan of it.
LoRd LiNuS
While you still have that slow-mo camera slap Linus with a fish
Do you play LOTRO by any chance?
Yes
Fishslap
or slap him with the equivalent GT 1030
Yes!
"That removes the reliability of our experiments"
Perfect
Improves*
Check the subtitles
@@Timochat_ he definitely says removes
@@Timochat_ r/woooosh
Yeet
Laughed way too hard on this one
I'd love to see this test redone with all kinds of mice. Things like Amazon best sellers to the cheapest thing claiming to be "built for gaming"
And the delay with increasing distance to the usb receiver.
Great idea
They have to see your comment omg! Great video idea
I want this!
REALLY curious about the results.. would be very interesting (to me, at least)
And different recievers (my mb is shit fx)
7:37 This is why I think their should be an average person included in every Olympic event. So we see just how amazing an Olympian is.
This is officially the best channel to find science fair project ideas
Yooooo
Underrated
Why doesn't this have more likes 😂
No I just copy Michael reeves. No big deal.
Yea but who can get a super slow mo camera
Since you have a 1000fps camera, maybe you should do a video on screen tearing
are you using internet explorer? because they've done it like 3 times already?
@@nasmeskartz9149 it's a shame we cant even call it internet explorer anymore
@@dragonwithak6051 What? What do you mean, what happened to Internet Explorer???
Sent from Internet Explorer, 2001.
2019 called,people want internet explorer back.they don't want Microsoft edge.
Wait... Microsoft edge is internet explorer?... Nooooooo
I really like this format of tech mythbusters, keep it going, it's reaaaally interesting to watch and i learned a lot today!
N0aaz agreed
I second that!
+
“We are gonna test reliability”
*smashes mouse with hammer”
ReLiAbL
Only a Hardcore 50k hour Korean starcraft Player could notice the difference
Did u mean hardcore minecrafters who can consistently save all of their falls with a water bucket?
@@DragoniaLegendary NO. HE MEANT STARCRAFT
Kalel Mercy hes jokin chill
@dragonia gaming he meant starcraft the game that uses strategy and skill to beat it. Minecraft is for kids that suck at strategy point and click games. I had a friend who played starcraft non stop its pretty fun but i like final fantasy way more.
Darth Maul Ok gayboi
Linus tech tips: speaking of hot...
Me: skip 10 seconds
@Velkan-san i always do lol
Not much else we can do given modern youtubers' obsession with "clever" and "smooth" ad segues :P
Haha, did the exact same shit
LMFAO
Legend never die..
Humans: Mock a mouse for having 30 ms lag
Also humans: Have 300 ms response time
That's why we need every advantage.
@@cheezike5814 stop
If you have 300ms response time you may have found the answer to why you suck in games
But when u react u dont need the mouse to also add to ur reaction time. So lower is better^^
Humans have around 200 ms response time.
“That removes the reliability of our measurements, dramatically.”
Me: Wait a second...
?
that's what he said
3:52
Well it did have a correction of "improve"
oh man i wish they tested how an old mice with a ball would perform on this video.
I was thinking the same. :o
I would think that a PS/2 mouse would actually have lower latency because it has a more direct route to active CPU processing, I'd love to know.
Trackball probably wouldn't even move :o
@walentaz Yeah probably but i think would be nice to see how far we got.
@@NocFA no it wouldnt have lower latency, LTT already made a Video about PS/" and USB Mouse comparison
Please compare USB to PS/2 and see which one performs better. Because some gamers still want a PS/2 Port. Keyboard would be interesting too... :)
Phiwatec why a PS/2 ports? The disadvantage of not being hot swappable far out way the advantage of 0 latency. Ever had your mouse freeze up on you before? I have had that happen. And it would suck if I had to restart the entire PC just because of that. But with PS/2, you have to restart it.
@@mclaine33 you just got a notification for nothing
@@hampusahlen4850 Kinda like how you did
@@dayceroberts I'm starting to see a pattern here...
@@speedylordinc.3748 you just got a notification for nothing
I'd love to see this test re-done after July 7 to see if Navi's Radeon Anti-Lag feature has a measurable effect as well.
@Rechy Especially when this is between 13 and 15 ms, I dont think it is more than a gimmick to be honest
@@Comanglia yes and No, If the game Runs a much lower framerate because of GPU limitation, then no antilag in the world is gonna do shit because then you are framerate limited
@@Comanglia Snyctech is working with finished rendered frames and does not give a shit about CPU setup, so this cant even work, also 30 FPS magically reduced by 20ms?
No, wont happen, If your CPU would be able of 100 a second, that would be 10ms there, so even if you were able to completly ignore the CPU you would not get 20ms out of it
I like that intro message. "you're not bad, your mouse is bad, also you're bad"
Great topic! What about another video with the same idea, but for keyboards?
Exactly! and what about another one but with monitors?
What about another one but with chairs
Nahh
Drew Davenport RGB lighting too
Keyboards and monitors are great ones that I would love to see.
Now this, this is quality shit! Test everything and put these companies products to the test! Us consumers really appreciate it!
Agreed!
They didn't test with the dongle plugged directly into the PC and under the desk, like a large number of users would do with their actual home set ups.
The Indoor Outdoorsman If my shitty Bluetooth dongle doesn’t miss a beat when paired to my Xbox Controller then this shouldn’t have any issue either 😄.
@@DJHeroMasta You'd be surprised. Especially putting it into a rear USB slot so it's under the desk and at the back of the tower.
This just made me make up my mind about buying a logitech wireless mouse I was looking at lol great video
Do the same test in linux using lowlatency kernel! I'm curious to see if there is any difference in between linux and windows.
Masaliantiikeri might as well compare Mac as well even tho no one games on them... I also sort of want to see the latency with the Magic Mouse and other styles of mice
Masaliantiikeri and maybe the latency with console remotes?
@@jackhaynes8944 Even if Macs had lower latency they would be awful for gaming simply due to Mac OS's baked in mouse acceleration. You absolutely need 1 to 1 mouse movement for any competitive gaming.
They should just have used an arduino for that. I will priovide the lowest latency possible (sub 1 millisecond).
Windows might be faster than Linux but I would love to see the test as well. Windows allows direct hardware communication across layers while Linux forces everything to go all the way down and up the stack through layers to ensure that nothing funny happens. The result is that Windows offers faster performance, but is also susceptible to Blue Screens of Death because hardware can get signals from multiple locations at the same time, whereas that never happens in Linux because everything has to wait in line and go through the hardware stack. There is no direct hardware access that I know of in Linux. These two modes I'm talking about have names I just can't remember what they are right now.
Linus: oh that's hot
me: woah
Linus: speaking of hot, our sponsor, storyblocks
me: fucksake they got me
"Woah that's hot... speaking of hot"
*facepalm*
Some Thing 1 month 0 comments,well thats something
@@shazzzz wtf i got the notification as if i replied to the comment but theres nothing there, nani?
@@moon-pw1bi Habbid?
I wanna like but then it wouldn't be 666
That’s an awfully hot coffee pot
Please retest that with different sensor´s, connection & different price ranges!
That would be really cool.
Even more if you could test it over both axis and maby even how correct movement is translated. :)
Maybe collaborate with rocket jump ninja too ?
thorsong1 Well in theory this should be the case but without a test it might also not be true.
Oh I can see why I am noob now
I have more than 30ms latency
I have more than 150ms ping
I have less than 40 FPS
But most importantly I don't have skills
But most importantly... mY tEaMmAtEs sUcK!!!!!1!1!
dont forget brain lag
@@cheeztuch7142 yep
Jammy
Why you nerdy people all cry bullshit here????
Jammy yeah and with what exectly? Do you live in iceland or something? Siberia? Cause thats the only thing that can explain 150 ms ping
Conclusion: Latencies are so low nowadays, it isn't human detectable.
This wired vs wireless discussion was perhaps an issue 2 decades back, but these days it's so small it not detectable on screen.
The MX Master 3 is quite terrible in terms of latency and consistency, it's even way worse on bluetooth. The old wired G5 laser from 15 or so years ago is just much better.
@@Hamachingo Ofcourse there's always companies who use substandard hardware or simply dont have high standards.
@@rey_nemaattori I feel like they're improving things while deliberately downgrading others so they can send you a new and improved version to repeat the cycle.
Recently got a Logi G603, tracking is great, latency is great (also still decent on bluetooth), love the quiet mouse wheel. The sound when releasing the side buttons makes me mad though, like a tiny ruler at the edge of the desk. Never had that problem on any Logitech mouse.
@WilliamCBells Havent really noticed this, my first cordless mouse still works, even though I've replaced it with a corded laser mouse like 2 decades ago.
You should start a new channel called Tech Myth Busters or something. Loved this video.
companies HATE him!
playlist, possibly, channel, no.
Tech Busters!
@@El_Chompo Except Logitech right now because he just validated their claims.
@@hsojom3 Yeah I'm pretty impressed. But he didn't try PS/2 port yet. It simple means they have created a wireless hardware set that has basically 1ms or less response time so it is indistinguishable.
Linus: and speaking of ...
Me: double tap
Linus: So are Gaming.mice worth ?
Me: Double tap
Lol same here 😂
*Double press right arrow key
@@John-hz4wi or just press k
Nah, coffee addicts enjoyed it, coffee is so good and healthy it actually becomes a hobby
Next video: "Why I paid for a $150,000 Phantom camera"
Except they didn't...
@@strikereureka5081 right! They borrowed it from the guy in the other video lol
@@strikereureka5081 I think the joke is that they like it so much they bought it.
He probably got probably x3 times that ammount just renting it :)
One year later, diy watercool you phantom
1:22 Admittedly, I’m only focused on the shoe print on the wall.
A Kyle was playing a game and lost so he punched the wall and broke his hand. So when he lost another game, he kicked the wall instead.
The dark core is capable of wired mode too
It would be interesting to see what the latency difference is
Well the logitech wireless mouse also supports wired play. And they didn`t test it aswell...
@@thedanzero The Logitech MX518 test is a fair enough comparison, because it uses the exact same sensor the G703 has anyways...unless that was the G703 non-Hero variant, which would be worse.
this channel needs a lot more slow motion takes of linus being slaped...
Slapped
@@TetaGama no slaped sounds better
I slaped your mom...
*with* your mo...
you're mumm gae!
Should have measured the wireless if the dongle was far away or behind the PC.
this is pure marketing bs, if anyone believes linus makes these videos for any other reason than because he got paid from these companies then... he is probably subscribed to this channel. yes, wireless can be just as fast as a wired mouse, but under what circumstances? if he truly wanted to show the pros and cons of this, he would have done this video differently. i wonder how much logitech has to pay to convince thousands of people to buy a wireless mouse because of 1 video.
@@leet137
I'm going to say I have a Logitech G305 (gaming wireless mouse) and it has no input lag compared to wired.
The dongle needs to be relatively close to your mousepad tho and 2.4ghz signals can interfere with the signal.
@@leet137 .... Um, Logitech sells wireless and wired versions of some of their G-series mice, so they don't care which you buy; they get your money either way. Linux gets paid to advertise things, not to lie about product tests. It's more than a bit harsh to claim that this test is somehow rigged to help sell mice.
Most of the viewers of this video *already* own expensive gaming mice; that's why they were interested in seeing wired versus wireless. Linus must, by U.S. law and RUclips policy, tell us when he has been given products to review and when companies pay him to make a video. If you find out that he dishonestly made a propaganda video without disclosing the sponsorship, then feel free to turn him in.
There are certainly things going on behind the scenes with youtube channels that the audience doesn't find out about, but these are mostly personal and business issues that they don't want to make public. Linus and this channel certainly need a constant stream of new and expensive products coming out in order to create their own constant stream of videos that will get viewed by millions of people, but that doesn't mean that he's being paid to illegally rig up a fake test without divulging the advertisement.
On top of that, why would a channel receiving multiple millions of views per video *plus* sponsors for each of those videos *need* to do rigged tests to take under-the-table money from Logitech? If any channel does this, then I hope they get caught.
Yes, youtube channels can be sleazy and they are trying to consume your attention just like Facebook, Instagram, and all of the other life-draining distractions surrounding us and destroying human society, but that doesn't mean that they're also involved in some secret pay-for-test-results scheme.
@@antibrevity you are naive
@@leet137 Thanks! 🙂 I'm also not buying any of these mice and my phone is a used one from 2016. I'm the guy people come to for advice, so let's hope I'm not *too* naive. Stay paranoid, my friend 😋.
"Linus takes a hammer to the mouse"
Mouse: *sweating nervously*
There should have been more mice. Like the Mx Master 2S, some cheaper wired mice etc..
Tech Incorporated
Only Logitech and Corsair now.... Others are too slow.....
Cheap, just use cables!
this
Meh, that wasn't what they were testing though. This was about whether or not the wireless increased latency over wired. Their selection was adequate to show that.
@@JadeNeoma true. But since they tested the final mouse and the mx anywhere.. they could have gone a step further
Tech Incorporated you can definitely find $3-$5 mice to use for a larger pool of mice.
Don't film in 24fps if you guys are going to move around so much!
*export to youtube in 30 fps
But i agree nonethless.
maybe they're currently trying something new, ltt rarely disappoint
Also, isn't the plural of a computer mouse mouses not mice?
@@jeffgrey2746 it can be either
They had a problem with their premiere timeline, as the imported slow-mo-clips were 24fps. Slipped QC.
Wouldn't mind a comparison between The Hero Sensor and the standard 3360
The main advantage of Logitech Hero Sensor (over 3360) is 10x energy efficiency (for wireless operation). DPI increase from 12000 to 16000 is unlikely to be noticeable.
I've owned two versions of the 3360 over the course of 2 years and now I have Hero G pro wireless and it is the first time I can very honestly say... I can 100% tell you that the Hero is an improvement over the 3360 at fast tracking speeds. If you use high sensitivity, I don't think you would be able to tell. However, I use a very low sensitivity (always have) as I stated before, it is more consistent with large/fast arm movements. CS GO 400dpi at 1.2
There's 3389 now www.pixart.com/products-comparison/7/Optical_Mouse_Sensor , that should be better
@@kerkertrandov459 i think 3389 is just a modified 3360 for corsair or something
Honestly , unless youre the pro est of the pro player , no difference when you use it , even a 3310 is pretty good enough
5:51 is the answer to the question.
(the same)
This deserves more credit
@just ady it’s helpful as it saves time. Be quiet.
@lynier bro go outside and get some sun
@lynier ....
This is some weird thread
They deliberately used that coffee video and hot to trick us for a second into thinking it was a Madrinas coffee thing.
Well played.
you should checked more mice, and check how distance influence in wireless mouse.
And how about cheap mice
^^ Agreed!
How far do you sit away from your monitor?
He did a cheap mouse well cheaper and it was like 36ms
If u consider like a g305 relatively cheap then it's the best wireless mouse, it's got that insane hero sensor with almost perfect tracking.
@@blackacetony2039 £40 is cheap
meanwhile in twitch chat on csgo events
WIRELESS MOUSE OMEGALUL
*shoots someone through smoke because you heard the guy*
Twitch chat: VAC VAC VAC VAC VAC VAC VAC VAC VAC VAC VAC
If it's an event, and there are hundreds of wireless stuff around, I'd be worried too. They're probably gonna interfere or affect with each other.
welcome to the internet, all public comment sections and public chat is full of retards or retards acting like retards.
There is really a lot of interference, still not reliable enough for pro gaming
Batteries OMEGALUL
2:00 This feedback loop delay is what I (and many others, I'm sure) discovered in 1991, and Carmack discovered when he started gathering components for the Oculus. Results were as expected, thanks for the video measuring it. :)
Cool topic!!
Some suggestions to make it more "scientific":
- use median instead of average
- instead of filming a screen, which still has fairly high response times, use a Raspberry Pi, that turns on a led when the mouse moves
- if you do what I described in point 2, you have less setup time, so please use a bigger sample size
Why median _instead_ of average? Lag spikes and lag "crevices" are things we do care about in practical use and thus one of the metrics should account for then.
@@TechSY730 because these spikes are not caused by the mouse, but by the PC (like delayed frames and such).
@@Leo-ir6ey You want to measure the actual and precise response time, the point of the video was to check if the wireless will be the same as the wired and they did that very well. But I wouldn't mind seeing more mouses, not including zowie and steelseries is a shame especially since zowie dominates cs go.
@@redshirt510 Yeah, the part where they compared wired vs. wireless was pretty much flawless (because they are only checking if the times are roughly equal). I was referencing the last part where they compared reponse times of different mice. To do that accuratly, you must measure the actual response time accuratly.
Yep, quartiles matter plenty
Do try out some testing on monitors. Aka Ghosting/Input Lag/Response time on different monitors or something similar. For science =)
Particularly for mobile phones. I am unhappy with the black-to-darkgray response time on my oneplue 6, and want to avoid that in the future when I buy a new phone after a couple of years.
YES PLEASE
@@feha92 You notice it during normal use or do you mean mobile "gaming"?
Why not setup a CRT monitor to run at 1000 hertz? You could had a simple display where all the mouse did was move a dot.
Has any one find a 1000 hz display... sound like a nice thing.
Here motion blure 1000 herz. Aliens.
www.blurbusters.com/blur-busters-law-amazing-journey-to-future-1000hz-displays-with-blurfree-sample-and-hold/
do you want them to test unicorn blood too?
This has got to be bait
Go look at “Battle(non)sense” he has made some really good videos about how this works.
@Warm Soft Kitty REALLY YOU CAN'T BUY THEM AND NO ONE USES THEM? In theory you can reduce the resolution to get a 1000hertz single.
www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/632863-REG/Ikegami_HTM1990R_HTM_1990_R_19_HDTV_SDTV_Multi_Format.html?ap=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=CjwKCAjwx_boBRA9EiwA4kIELuZj94eAhDVdgf7cT4iLBF9oGYRAlBAkriUzMP4xgKeRasYFbhNdgRoC23sQAvD_BwE
TLDR: They are the same latency comparing logitech mice.
*TLDW
@@zachgoniea8019 oops
Linus please do more of these tests! Maybe try some expensive ass mouses and possibly keyboards?
Everyone likes that
Mouses? You mean mice...?
@@TheSlywright nope mouses
shinjincai mice is the plural form of mouse, not mouses
@@AquaYT nope mouses
Use a Raspberry Pi, program it to light a LED on mouse move or click, thus avoiding all the latency of a complex program and the monitor.
Why though?
@@whatsascallion Avoid the latency of the game engine and monitor response time.
Although that's a cool idea we all know Linus is here for the entertainment, and most people will find that boring
@@SteveDaBartender
No they won't. The channel has plenty of videos that are equally "boring" and still get plenty of views.
Stonks
Pick some controllers! Xbox one, xbox elite, ps4, switch some fighting games controllers and stuff. That would be great!
No this Is PC race peasants
Console controllers have high latency compared to PC inputs.
It would've been interesting to test interference too. Maybe put a wifi router next to the wireless dongle and stream 4k video from the router
00:43
Linus: "Well..."
Me: "oh here comes the spons...wait what?"
That's illegal
*0:41
MX Anywhere 2 is slightly lifted when hit by the hammer, that has to contribute to it's tracking consistency, or lack thereof.
Yeah but slight lift isn't anything out of the ordinary when doing fast moves during gaming.
Siana Gearz it is if you keep your hand on the mouse....
@@hmorris This isn't always the case. What you mean is palm grip where hand applies weight to the mouse from above, but many people support the hand elsewhere and grab the mouse between the thumb and little finger for faster movement and better control, finger and claw grips. Many people also have somewhat hybrid grip, where they release the palm grip and shift towards another grip for a moment now and then, probably without noticing it.
Furthermore even when palming, it's possible to roll the mouse on the edge and thus lift off the sensor if your mouse is light enough and you're moving it very quickly.
@@SianaGearz Fingertip master race
3:07 you're welcome
hogkill64 thx bro
his nose is wobbling whyy
@@Nugcon there is no bone in the bone
Ty
@@powder5236 boneless pizza
Me: *Dies in game
Me: Sorry my gaming chair is broken so i use normal chair
I use no chair
@@trainerzard7 do you stand
@@trainerzard7 same and i sit on the floor
This was a very scientific test. I am shocked they went thru all this. I am impressed and prefer wireless any day over wired. (: Now, I truly have no reason to have wired devices.
Are you going to do more tests with more mice? Maybe the Logitech 903, Logitech M510 (for another non gaming mouse comparison), and some razer mice? Maybe also see how much of a difference it is between expensive mice and cheap ones for both wired and wireless.
Something i feel the need to point out in this video:
A 1000hz polling rate IS good to have. But _Not for input latency._ It's much better for more accurate tracking. If you like to aim by flicking your mouse from point A to point B then back to A again in a pretty small fraction of a second, it's _very_ noticeable. 1000Hz can make the same "flick" motion give much more consistent results than 500hz can.
This is one of your coolest vids, the combo of the high speed camera, hammer, 240hz monitor. There was a lot of cool stuff in this video, and it wasn't too technical or boring. Linus seemed really excited by the test, I have to agree
i would like to see this test with the razer viper ultimate now with their claims of 25% faster than any wireless mouse
Ikr
@ThaReal CLo Hahahaha just write them off immediately
@ThaReal CLo true the only mouse i liked from them is the razer basilisk
@ThaReal CLo The deathadder is the nicest feeling mouse I've ever used
Lol razer is fucking garbage, I wouldnt believe any claim they make.
This was honestly a really great and informative video, but a bit more content (e.g. testing older mice like the old mx518 would've been great)
Totally agree with you but they shot several video's where they use a high speed camera for the short time they rented it. To add to that the high speed camera needs a ridiculous amount of light so they can only shoot during the day. Though it would have been very interesting.
I would like to see this done with the Glorious Mouse Model O, Finalmouse Air Ninja, the Razer Naga Trinity, and the Cooler Master MM710
And a Razer
Glorious is probably the best out of them compared to a finalmouse it weights less and is less than half the price
"We're going to hit the mouse with the hammer"
Me: that sounds safe
Of course it is you who else? Dumb comment format
Next episode should be;
"We tried to find out whether Gamers are the most nitpicky creatures in existence"
This is an underrated comment. Gamers complain that a mouse, keyboard, or even monitor has a millisecond more of response time then another when our eyes and our own response times can't even tell the difference. It's so silly.
I think you just don't get the way we think. We don't just want 60 fps or a 144hz monitor or a 1000hz mouse. We want AS MUCH STATS AS POSSIBLE. Infinite frames, infinite refresh rates etc. That way the only thing stopping you from being the best is yourself. It doesn't matter whether or not you can tell the difference, it's about knowing that your failures are your own fault. Knowing that reduces frustration and burnout. It's basically all about having a competitive spirit.
I understand your point but the point here is that for so long wireless mice have been seen as far inferior in gaming applications. To see that difference is negligible is the point of this video. Personally I wouldn't have ever considered a wireless mouse but after this the convenience of no cord does sound pretty nice.
it's the same in sports. people wants the official NBA basket ball to play even in high school. they want the same shoes that the champions are using, etc.
@@neojack333 *people wants*
I loved the school science project feel of this video. Brought back memories. And the data is very interesting. Looks like the best wireless mice can now actually match wired mice in responsiveness!
Please also test Steelseries mouses if you ever planning to do a second video on this. Steelseries has a great reputation in it's sensors and response time, but never see them back in these type of testing videos.
its going to be the same. all top end mice are pretty much the same at this point. the difference between zowie, logitech, steelseries, etc sensors are so minimal it doesnt matter. all that really matters now is weight and shape. all of the high end mice including steelseries will be around the 10-15ms avg. in no way shape or form a noticeable difference even in the slightest.
Logitech is also probably calculating based on a click not moving the mouse. Clicks send less data than movement.
Yeah
What is the difference between the wireless mouses over different distances?
Does the OS affect the polling? Is Linux faster/ slower than Windows?
OS has nothing to do with that. Games have direct input function to avoid adding latency.
Also why would you test mouse difference over distances if you are not gonna use it from 15mts far? That's unreal.
The mouse drivers are designed to bypass the OS for the most part.
@@dhkatz_ Why would you want to bypass os if you have direct input? Makes no sense
@@ladrillorojo4996 mouse input would surely still have to be handled by the kernel at some stage
@@ladrillorojo4996 It has, drivers are just another level of overhead. Only PS/2 connections would make a difference as they are designed to be handled as interrupts by the CPU. The rest goes through the kernel and how it handles USB polling. On top of that, you have the USB drivers and on top of that you got the mouse drivers. Also, not all USB ports are made equal, some are connected through the chipset some are connected directly to the CPU, you got to account for the comm overhead of the chipset and the CPU. Generally PCs are pretty terrible at real-time tasks, with Unix based systems being a bit better, but still not good enough.
I'm not a gamer, and actually have the MX Anywhere, but that was interesting and good to know.
This is probably one of my favorite videos you've ever done. Keep doing stuff like this!
Idk about imagining the mouses hz. My Logitech G502 feels “off” when at 500hz. Actually took me a while to find the option to increase it to 1000 which felt so much smoother.
But as he said, how are you running any piece of equipment that is capable of discerning the difference? Even if you believe you can, how is your monitor capable of displaying the difference?
@@zero_grav_original Maybe it has to do more with the amount of data the computer gets per hz to position the mouse. It seems that since the mouse is sending its signal more often even though your monitor doesn't show it your pc does seem to be able to convert that 1000hz into an input. Of course, I'm just hypothesizing, I can't test this.
One of the best videos on this channel! More tests like this!
I thought the sponsor was going to be madrina’s coffee😂😂
3:53 Great, I love when the reliability of the measurements gets Dramatically removed!
XD
Be clearly meant to say unreliability. Hilarious that so many people are freaking over this 😂
No one:
Me looking at the linus tech tips store: oh cool you can buy linus for $19.99
I'm a simple LTT Fan,
I hear "speaking of...", I skip 20 seconds
Same bruh
It's like he does it on purpose so he can let us know we have to skip
Press L twice my friend. It's faster.
@@take-KONTROL no double tap on mobile
@@domyeet2684 He sacrifices himself to save us from his never ending doom of sponsors.
*Could you guys try this with keyboard as well? Would be very fun to watch!*
Dark Whore is a really underrated choice for any given product's name.
I would like to see a test of normal, no gaming wired mouse. And I love how you designed the test. Thanks!
it would have a 125hz polling rate. so this means atleast 8ms response time from the mouse (unlike the 1ms from the other mice, excluding the slight add on latency). id say expect an extra 7ms
interesting.
this raises additional questions:
the type of usb port used (2 / 3 /3.1)
the type of MB + CPU (amd vs intel)
so testing the full IO path, from the mouse to the CPU
im no expert so maybe there was a reason for not doing this, but they could have gotten a wireless mouse that has an attachable wire so it would be the exact same mouse
I think you want to put a bluetooth receiver in a usb 2.0 port
the polling rate of mice doesnt effect the quickness of how fast the initial movement is, but rather how many times the mouse responds while it is moving. It effects the 'jitteryness' of the mouse at high sensitivities, and is easier to notice on hard surfaces when you are trying to have perfectly smooth movement. It is easier on a 500hz polling rate do this over 1000 hz because of the inability of the human hand to be 100% smooth all of the time. 500hz seems to even this inconsistency out. Awesome testing for everything else though.
It absolutely affects the initial movement. Let's say you have a mouse that polls once a minute, the initial movement occurring just after a poll would mean an approximate 60s wait to the initial movement on the screen. If that same mouse polled twice a minute then the max wait is now approximately 30s.
If polling rate is the only thing that changes then the lower the delay between polls, the quicker you see your initial movement on the screen.
1:25 why is there a footprint on the wall...
*Mario has joined the chat
Linus's victim
Thay tried to kick linus
You dont ask questions you dont want awnsers to
they practiced parkour
The amount of variables taken into account to conduct an experiment for gaming is truly beautiful
You could have overclocked a 4k 120hz display to run at 1000hz at 720p if you wanted to have higher refresh rates.
“Speaking of anything” I skip 15 seconds
My man!
Linus gets our pain of hearing him state the same advert with the same segway for the 1000th time, God bless him for making 10 second ad slots knowingly so we can just double tap and skip it
@@thelastcube. wait, is that leagl to do that? i mean if im the ad. i would be mad
@@itrisky773 its whatever Linus and his sponsors agree on. Linus is a huge youtuber with multiple channels, so I'm thinking he has the edge when negotiating a contract.
Hey @linus, there is a problem on your analysis. Actually you are not testing the 'delay' but you are testing the 'remote wake-up' delay (which is on the USB PROTOCOL). Quick explaination: when you leave your usb idle for long periods of time (which for a computer is something like 20ms) your USB connection (host(computer) and device(mouse)) switch for a 'suspend' state. For leaving the suspending state the device (mouse) issue an remote-wakeup command (which is inverting the lines dp/dm of the usb) it does it for something like 14ms. i think that is what you are mainly measuring. Maybe a good test would be 'shaking' the mouse to see how much time between your hand changes directions and the cs:go players does. (source: I design microcontrollers for a living )
Yup. I think they should probably have tested this with the mouse constantly in motion, and using a mouse button press as the "trigger". I also don't really understand why they didn't solder wires to the mouse button so they can trigger it precisely without a weird swinging hammer and metallized tape.... This entire thing could have been measuried automatically using a serial port to both trigger and record information at much, much higher rates than the screen can update.
@@Mythricia1988 Its showmanship.
2:13 The fundamentals of any experiment.
Absolutely love how humble this test was, acknowledging margin of error and all that really was worth while 👌
Linus do the same experiment using Steam Remote Play using Wireless, Ethernet and through the internet please!
Least latency using Ethernet, then wireless, then internet. For almost all cases.
Luis Alonzo ofcoarse ethernet is faster you bumbum
You guys should do USB vs. PS/2 latency since PS/2 sends a interrupt request instead of being polled.
I'm willing to put money that PS2 is Superior
Why would you do a test against a technology that nobody's used in like 15 years.
They still come shipped on Modern workstations
And sometimes USB ports are valuable real estate
@ Linus Tech Tips There is a noticeable difference between 500 and 1000 polling rate and that is a bit more complex than just input delay. That claim that the difference is not noticeable is understandable if you only look at input delay without considering that polling rate is a communication limit. The mouse sends reports to the computer with changing rates depending on the mouse speed and my mouse report rates hover around 700 during precise aiming and cap out at 1000 when I look around in-game. It's quite hard to move my mouse slow enough to get less than 500 reports per second so it would make sense to cap the communication rate to 500 to always be at the same polling rate. When the rate is set at 1000 I'd have 2 different things happening when playing games and that is a fluctuating polling rate during aiming and capped polling rate during movement which causes jitter that is visible in slowed down recordings.
I’ve used a lot of different wired gaming mouses and for the longest time I was skeptical about switching over to a wireless one due to it not being as responsive. That’s until I got my wireless g pro and I honestly cannot tell the difference or go back to a wired mouse. Regardless of the science behind it the human eye cannot tell the difference between the two and it responds just as fast as my wired mouses in the past.
Everything PC lol yeah my biggest problem though is losing the dongle and replacing the battery
Intern: LinusTechTips did a scientific experiment on our nice
Company: drinking game for every variable they didn’t account for?
“Hello 911, yea it’s me again, I got a case of alcohol poisoning. Yea, they were doing drinking games with Ltd again”
This is for children hahaha
I would have preferred a test with a CRT or second choice, OLED, since its response time, not frame rate that matters here.
they should've at least put the mice on a track so all movement from the hammer strike was in a straight path and the starting point would be the same. Seems like a low effort improvement
@@tycho_m why does it even matter if it's a straight line? Or if it's the same starting point? We wanna know if it move when it gets hits. Not how far it goes or how fast it moves X meters.
As silly as this idea is, you should have compared it to a PS/2 mouse as well. It would be interesting to see the difference between USB polling and hardware interrupts.
@Warm Soft Kitty no u
@Warm Soft Kitty Again, not the point.
Would be nice to get an updated video on both this and the monitor comparison (with wired mice hitting 8000Hz polling rates now). Have told people so many times that wired vs wireless ultimately comes down to user preference when you're buying mid to high end products. Some people swear wireless is better and others wired, yet at the end of the day it's just a preference. While technically wired mice have higher performance now (just like they did in the video) the difference is so negligible that it again comes down to preference. Just like you guys proved that in monitor refresh rate once you go from 60Hz to144Hz anything higher than 144 makes a negligible difference.
With wired hitting 8000Hz and monitor refresh rates having increased a bit. I honestly wonder if from 1000Hz to 8000Hz is even noticeable as it does seem like a massive gap, 144Hz to 360Hz as well with monitors (think in the monitor video 240Hz was the last variable). I assume that it would remain the same and users would think they could notice a difference, but it's just someone wanting to feel good about the product (ownership pride) they own causing a confirmation bias.