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I’ve come to appreciate the way Jordan Peterson thinks. He gives a conclusion, and walks you through a scenario. But along the way he asks what seem stupid questions like “Do we want our child to be annoying?”. But what he’s doing is always questioning the underlying assumptions and really asking “Are we sure we know what we think we know?”. Fantastic logical process.
I would say he rather dances around the question than answers it. He is caught between his ideology (and I like his ideology) to work things out or leave an unhealthy relationship. Everything he said is true, but under the condition that BOTH people in the relationships are caring and respectful to each other.
@@puclopuclik4108it's not his job to answer those questions. That's for every individual himself to do. The important thing is asking the right questions!
@artschiloyan9101 are you for real? Did you ever read the heading of the video? He was asked simple questions, and he didn't answer it, but he moved the conversation elsewhere. And yes, it is his job to answer questions, considering he's coaching people to better themselves.
@@puclopuclik4108 nothing in relationships is "simple", much less the issues that come up in them. And you don't coach people by telling them "do this, do that". That's not coaching or teaching, that's giving orders. If you want anyone to learn something, you help them ask questions and come up with answers. That's what Jordan Peterson is so good at and that's what people appreciate him for.
@artschiloyan9101 To know if the relationship has any worth is the most important thing to know. He is good in self-improvement coaching but terrible relationship adviser. And he just proved it here by completely ignoring the topic.
My husband is my best friend. We went through hell and back but made rules in the beginning to maintain each other’s dignity. Did we sometimes slip up? Yes. Did it hurt? Yes. But we always apologized and took accountability. Sometimes it took time and we needed to separate and give ourselves time to think. Now, we rarely fight but we do have disagreements and we handle them with love and patience. I am always thinking about how I can honor my husband’s love and happiness and him for me. The other day he said to me that we complete each other, followed up with, “we’re like a pie, you’re one half and I’m the other, and we might be two different flavours but when you put us together, we complete the pie!” 😂😂😂
Usually the ones who create conflict in the first place are the ones who avoid it at all cost. At least in my experience. Then they shoot the messenger for exposing them.
Just my $0.02 - ask yourself these questions multiple times over an extended period of time rather than just once when you’re emotionally charged. You’ll answer these questions very differently depending on how things are with you at that very moment.
A mature relationship between husband and wife is a beautiful thing. Its a perfect example of what good is. The love they have for each other. The peace they have. What they do for each other. The fights then feeling guilty and making up to each other. It just makes us better people when we have a lifetime partner.
@@chrisquinn394 Nearly 70 percent of divorces are initiated by the wife. In addition, over 50% of divorced wives never want to remarry while only about 30% of men express that same sentiment. 💍 😭 💰 🏡 👦👧💀
7:57 "I'd it's genuine love, you see their hidden soul... You get a glimpse of the light they could reveal to the world. To act in love is to encourage that to come forward and to discourage anything that gets in its way."
Yes but what if the person is now an addict. To have healthy boundaries and not to become co-defendant or so involved with what their going through but to also layover them and hold the space- but then I become the therapist there. Cant ve that in a partnership. I agree - encourage that beautiful est self to come forward. But sometimes, we can’t be in closee partnership where theyre still figuring out what side of addiction they want to be on. Im open to hearing you’re guys’ thoughts on it . Thanks.
@@cassandraharrington7189that is certainly a difficult scenario to give advice on, but I'll leave you with this gym: No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve Elohiym and money. - LUKE 16:13 A spouse cannot serve his addiction and his spouse. I don't like to recommend divorce, but it is scripturally available "for the hardness of man's heart." I would recommend being loving and patient where possible, but also honest and sincere while drawing a line in the sand. If this scenario is one you are in, I empathize with you and I hope for the ideal outcome.
Sure, but it’s not your job to change someone. If a person wants to self destruct, no amount of talking or modeling behavior will make a difference. This was my partner. He’s an alcoholic. I left. I love him. au love his soul. But his lifestyle was making me lose my sanity. No amount of telling him mattered. He didn’t care about me the way I cared for him.
@@cassandraharrington7189Im an addict, in recovery. I assume you are the partner of an addict? Addiction is a family disease. You will be affected by the addiction, one way or another: if you choose to be with him/her. How you allow it to affect you is your responsibility. Be proactive. Join Al-Anon or Nar-Anon. A family disease and you need recovery too. This part is important, for your wellbeing and for his/hers: You cannot change the addict, but you can change your reactions and behaviours towards them. You can learn to allow others the dignity of making their own decisions and experiencing the consequences thereof. Then you are freed from feeling responsible for changing others. (Love the addict not the behaviour). This is done through empathy and understanding, or a genuine willingness to do so. Addiction is illogical, it’s cunning, it’s powerful: empathy works because it’s real compassion grounded in understanding. Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you’ll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.” In a relationship, each share a separate burden of responsibility. The addict has to put their recovery first always. Progress and not perfection is he kept in mind. Your responsibility is to first to yourself and then extended to the addict. e wins and losses). grow, to understand and support and to t can be very difficult to understand the behaviours of an addict. As much
A teacher of mine once told me “you can’t truly love someone they they can’t truly love you, unless you can be your genuine self, the good and the bad presented, and they still love you for who you are.
I think ppl are taking this a bit too seriously, the known saying "if u cant handle me at my worst, u dont deserve me at my best". It has become an excuseflag to act like a dck all the time. No relationship survives this. Handle me at my worst. The constant wish to stay the same person and habits as single person. I even had to change my life and habits for my 4 chicken. Ppl need to realize that for a relationship to work you need to change. You need to swallow things that you wouldnt when single
Jordan said the darkness should be cast away. I guess you both have to be willing to do that. Is it really love if you allow yourself to have darkness?
I like the way Jordan immediately brings it back to earth, and shows it doesn't have to be perfect to be entirely good. Chris was talking about some ideal relationship where nothing ever is anything less than perfect, and you never catch yourself feeling disappointed. Jordan brings it back to YOU. You have the power to make lemonade out of lemons. You have the power to say, "why am I disappointed? Was what I was secretly hoping for really better than what I have, or what I can make of it?". Etc. I like that. It's two different approaches, but I like that he doesn't give up on the possibility of making it all work out by examining himself.
Ultimate Goal: "We should aim or try to make every day like the best moments of our best dates. It takes work but man is it worth it." WOW. This hit me differently than most comments and conversations I've heard. Jordan Peterson is by far one of the best minds on planet earth at this current time. Period.
0:03 % Questions to ask yourself if you are unsure about your relationship: 1) If someone told you you're a lot like your partner would this be a compliment to you? 2) are you truly fulfilled or just less lonely? 3) are you able to be unapologetically yourself or do you need to show up differently to please your partner? 4) are you in love with who your partner is right now as a whole or are you only in love with their good side their potential or idea of them? 5) would you want your future or imagined child to date someone like your partner? 1:14, Solution 1:171:411:533:51 2:002:142:332:433:033:25 4:46 7:317:56 9:5310:55
Yep! To all of it. Going on 30 years of marriage. We started out great friends, went through many years of learning how to fight for that friendship, until we finally understood the real potential of what this incredible friendship could be. Years of struggling by both of us to stop being selfish and to love, truly love, one another. It’s normal to want to run the hell away and find relief in one’s own selfish needs. But to earn the trust that creates the magic of love, you have to stick it out until you figure it all out. 🌿
You answered something I have been trying to understand for about three years. I had something like yours and went exactly how you said. Started out as friends, and 6 years later, we decided there was more potential. We loved one another but we both had selfish needs and both of us had this internal state of wanting to run away and we both knew it but did not understand. We did not try to work it out due to distance and being young. I always thought I had issues because I would have these "run away feelings" but realize it's normal, but of course, the lesson here is to push through those feelings and create something greater than you could ever imagine.
@@samstevens9947 Some years were better than others. I’m not sure there’s any kind of set time. For us, it was a process of learning to let go, processing the baggage we brought into our relationship, and understanding each other’s deeper motivations. One of our hurdles was a simple, yet difficult, realization that we fundamentally interacted with others in a really different way. He wanted to include family, friends, and other acquaintances in our marriage and I wanted to be more exclusive. He’s an extravert and I’m an introvert. We thought for many years the other person just didn’t love us enough. It even became a moral issue of he wanted to care about others and I wanted to care and nurture our relationship and family in a more singular way. The realization that we just value different ways of being in the world helped, me especially, to recognize how much happier our relationship could be if he had time with others to shoot the breeze, build connections and networks, outside of our marriage and family, and in turn he gave me special time alone with him each week. It took us years of staying committed to our marriage to find this balance. It was such a simple thing, but it took working through our insecurities and baggage first to see it. I’m not sure why that’s the example that came to me to share with you, but it felt right. I feel for your struggles. They can hurt so much. Just know that if you both want it bad enough and are willing to continue to include prayer and positive belief in your commitment to each other, you can overcome these struggles even when they feel impossible. ❤️
@@madeinhungaria2342 That’s a great question. When you’re in a committed relationship, the difference between selfishness and self-love, at least in my experience, isn’t always straight forward. I think the best measuring tool is how to think about and talk about how much both of you are considering the other person in your dreams, plans, and desires. Do you treat your partner like a valuable part of the equation or are you treating them like an accessory to your plans and needs. Partnership means our plans meld together and we work to support each other’s needs. Selfishness takes and demands, self-love establishes boundaries of love and respect. We all have personal needs, even when you’re trying to make others an important part of your life. The question is, are you giving the love and support you want back from your partner? If you can honestly say their needs matter as much as your own, and you both figure out what those needs are and work to give them to each other, occasional selfishness in the form of taking or expecting too much of the other person, which is going to happen because we’re all imperfect, won’t break the relationship. Did that answer your question? I’m sure there are a lot of ways to look at it, this is just one. ❤️
You're annoying me, convince me that it's me and I'll listen .. i love that!!!! You're hurting me, convince me that it's me and I'll listen... i freaking love this. Brilliant
@@mytelevisionisdeadThere has to be a foundation of trust and a history of honesty and vulnerability as the framework for that kind of discussion. Peterson and his wife agreed early on their marriage to always tell the truth to one another to the best of their ability, and they both have a disposition where that type of comment would seem genuine to me. One would have to have trust and a history of sincerity and humility in the relationship for it to be perceived as it was intended.
Narcissists will “convince you it’s you” by digging up every wrong thing in your past that had nothing to do with them (like before they even met you) and throwing it at you to prove why you’re a weak not strong unfit unstable and bad oartner/friend/person and then will say everyone else feels the same way about you. And they’ll repeat this to you in many diff scenarios and methods until you’re broken down and start believing it and if you fight back or defend yourself they’ll say you’re defensive prideful and it’s further proof that you are all those thing bc look at you can’t even control yourself and you can’t be “told about yourself” so you rly start to think man they must know me in ways I don’t know myself I have to change if I’m rly that bad, and then all your old friends and family who have known you FOREVER say “how could you believe those things abt yourself, why would this person say those things you’re nothing like that” and the narc tells you your family and friends are people pleasers which is why you cry and moan to them bc they’ll tell you what u wanna hear and so you start to distrust yourself and everyone around you bc you “WSNT to be a better person” and the claims they see the bad to try to HELP U Be better that you’re just too sensitive and they Shane you and push your buttons and say if you were a good person a stabake person a smart person a strong person this wouldn’t bother you, see …. And they chip away at you every single day until you’re a shell and then they say to you (nail into coffin) “what happened to you , you have no life in you, you used to be so fun… you don’t do anything or have any goals or dreams you are not on my level. You’re so boring now…. Why are u always so touchy and sad why do you act like you don’t care and don’t need me anymore, you don’t know how to love yourself you don’t know how to love me. That’s why you aren’t good enough for me” blah blah ITS A HORRIBLE LIFE. Anyway case in point you can’t always ask anyone to “convince me” of their perception of you bc some people might take on that challenge as an opportunity to try to destroy you and soak in your misery like life juice or something…………. Back in the day they used to just call these kind of men “evil” or “insane” now they have terms for these types so yeah.
I married my wife and chose to be with her, not by how in sync we are, (lol we’re often not) but how we got though conflict. She always sought for resolution of “us” rather than just winning. lol a thousand fights is right, especially when kids came along. Thankfully we’re on our 10 years and I can say, in *most* ways we are closer and more “in sync” than we’ve ever been. Of course it’s not perfect, any one who says they have that is probably selling something. But in short, look for someone who can get though the conflict with you (and care about your relationship over his/her own pride) rather than searching endlessly for someone who “clicks” with you in every way.
But what happens if you're married and committed..... But then you meet that person who you click with in every way. That one you're so in tune with it's beyond scary.
@@FILTH_87be friends with them, and only friends. They don't have to be romantic and you can't know someone for a year or more. Don't give up something solid to chase chemistry.
"If you genuinely love someone, you see their hidden soul. You get a glimpse of the light they could reveal to the world. To act in love is to encourage that light to come forward and to discourage anything that could get in its way." - Jordan Peterson really speaks in poetry. Incredible!
Your ability to truly listen to your partner, in a way that helps you to understand yourself better is so much more important than trying to convince your partner of your point. That takes true vulnerability and humility.
@@lvgrl78 as someone who is married and in a crap relationship, it's easier to call of an engagement than to get a divorce. Marriage doesn't change a relationship, especially not for the better. Don't enter a life contract with someone who brings you misery because it won't change
This was not what I thought it was going to be and it really surprised me.. Interesting. I'm just leaving a relationship where the other person shut me down with anger every time I wanted to talk about a concern and accused me for wanting to argue because I wanted to talk through things. Every, single, time. It shouldn't be that hard.
We got married last year and we are now ending it. Similar feeling. Her definition of fights is when I try to figure out why she’s mad which happens constantly and I might say something and if she doesn’t like it then I become the issue. I try to talk to her but says I’m not a good communicator so why try or she’ll say “ I told you already, did you not listen? I try my best to ask her to please tell it again but she’ll say “I told you already.” We keep getting in to the cycle and if we’re happy 1 week I know it’ll happen again soon to where it becomes monthly. How many times is she my wife during the month I’m not sure maybe half of the time.
@@Loth-n1vsame here, I just ended a relationship because she’s a very negative person. She said that I don’t meet her expectations and I hurt her before by leaving her cause of the same freaking thing. She’s always negative and when I ask her why, she would refuse to communicate and only communicate when she’s not mad. The issue was never fixed. I tried so hard to find ways making things work but she just couldn’t drop her ego, maybe it’s her pride. I tried my best to tolerate but I don’t want the rest of my life to be like this, to be in this cycle, keep guessing why she’s not happy. I just want to communicate calmly like adults but that never happened. Refuse to communicate is like a crucifix of a relationship. Almost two years with her, ended it yesterday. We cried a lot but love without action is not enough to hold a relationship. I’m upset but my logic is telling me that is the right move. I love her a lot and I have to let her know where my boundary is. Sometimes love means letting someone go. In order for us to learn and grow.
"My worst breakup was with Stacy. It was Sunday morning, we were reading the paper and I said, 'Oh my God, I think the Eagles could clinch the NFC East!' And she said, 'We’re done'." - Kevin, from The Office
I recently went through a difficult breakup. My five year relationship ended a month ago, and it's been incredibly hard. I still have so much love for my ex girlfriend, and I can't seem to get her out of my mind. Despite my best efforts to win her back, nothing has worked, and the thought of being with anyone else feels impossible right now. I know it might sound odd to share this here, but I miss her deeply and can't stop thinking about her.
I completely understand the pain of letting go of someone you love. I went through a similar experience when my 10 year relationship ended. I couldn't imagine my life without her, so I tried everything to rekindle our love. I eventually found guidance from a spiritual counselor, and their support helped me bring her back into my life.
If you're open to it, seeking help from a spiritual counselor might make a difference. How did you find your spiritual counselor, and how can I get in touch with them?
Stop trying to win her back, if she knows you are still an option then she isn't truly grieving the break up bc she knows she can have it. Go no contact and then she may decide she actually wants the relationship
I've been married for 35 yrs. I've suffered 7 betrayals from him , only stayed to fight because he didn't get sexual with them. Even his church counselor said it wasn't enough to divorce so I carried on trying. I've been there for him every time he's lost his job. Which is often. He has anxiety and adhd. But now I'm exhausted and I can't fight anymore. My health is suffering . I'm out.
Well I would say you’ve done enough and put up with enough. If you completely tried everything to make things work, then you can look in the mirror and say I tried all I could. When your sanity is collapsing I would say Yeha it’s time to go. That’s like the only thing you have at the end of the day that is completely yours Your sanity. You can’t help anyone else ever if you’re a wreck.
Interesting that Peterson is impressing that a peaceful relationship attained through fighting about things constitutes a good relationship. While it does make sense, it doesn't address Chris' other points about being happy/fulfilled with the relationship. I'm amazed to find in my adult life how many people are together because they don't want to be alone, can't survive alone, or are just together for the kids. I guess it's noble in some sense to sacrifice your happiness/pleasure for someone else but you also have to question what kind of an environment does that create? It's also interesting to look at this as someone who is older and single, and how often I get shamed or questioned about whether or not I've found a partner by people who are obviously unhappy with theirs. I guess shared misery helps it seem less bad.
You're not supposed to be entirely fulfilled by your partner. Those relationships are unhealthy 95%+ of the time. Peterson has advised in the past to find someone who is a beneficial foil so you both mutually improve one another over time. The partner isn't fulfillment--meaning is fulfilling. A phenomenal spouse with no other meaning will leave one unfulfilled.
To answer your question, no it does not get less bad. Your authenticity is diminished and the example you are setting for your children reaches into your future watching them struggle with behaviors YOU modeled for them.
I hope my husband watches it peacefully and bloody fights with me to figure things out. It's worth fighting for the love of your life with the love of your life. Great video as always, dr. Peterson is such a treasure to my life.
JP was my prof when I studied at U o T years ago 2004.I wish I had the sense to listen better. But at least he is no longer being wasted in Sid Smith hall and now belongs to the world. He is a Viking and Christian Saint and I wish he was my father.
A very fascinating video, this brings back painful memories which i have been enduring. My relationship of 6 years ended 3 months ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Parting ways with someone you deeply cherish is an agonizing experience. I understand firsthand, having encountered a parallel situation at the end of my 7 year relationship. Driven by an unyielding determination, I explored every avenue to salvage our bond. Seeking guidance from a spiritual counselor proved pivotal, as their intervention played a crucial role in rekindling our love.
Its ok. It will be ok. I'm sorry. My 11 year partner is leaving, he's already left emotionally. I know it's coming and I'm not sure whether to rip the band aid off. 😢 I don't know what to do.
Love this! As I was watching, it occurred to me that Jordan NEEDS to write a book in regards to raising children. Settin boundaries are so important! If boundaries were enforced, we might not be in the mess we are with this generation!
I practice this level of healthy discussion/confrontation of issues with my partner and it goes to shit because the other party has to be able to find it in themselves to take accountability for actions in a mature way. That's the part that sucks.
If you’re 100% committed to staying and not bailing and not bailing on them then you need to tell him the truth you need to Foster 🟠 and Gardner environment to bring problems to their attention and remember that they will try to fight it to maintain their delusion of who they are, but don’t let them stay with them know that they are not trying to anger you they are just trying to protect themselves when they mock dismiss Stonewall you and we can get through it
@@JasonfromMinnesota But there has to be a point at which they have to move off their ignorance or the relationship can't continue right? You can stay committed and take as much responsibility for their inability to do what you know they should, but if they refuse to do so, there has to come a time where you recognize that they are never going to change, or at the very least, they are never going to change for you. And maybe the problem is they are convinced you'll never leave, and you you'll never leave, then why do they need to change. So perhaps in leaving or threatening to (and meaning it) leave they might be motivated enough to change. But I'd say they'd have waited too long and they can deal with that in their next relationship.
I think one of the most important things that helps never just stay together, and even be happier than most of the others is when a couple has the same sense of humor! I almost swear by that. The problem is sometimes you learn that too late that person you married, actually turns out to be boring and not as fun as you initially thought. Laughing together and finding the same stuff funny and joking is really important and I think it really helps a lot.
10 месяцев назад+77
For the people who say they didn't learn anything or Peterson didn't stay on topic: He did, the point when you need to think or decide about breaking up comes when you talk those issues through and it boils down to principal disagreements that can't be compromised on or solved. If there are no solutions to be found at the core of the issues, THAT is where the decision needs to be done.
Yeah no he didn't say that at all. You're just adding a bunch of stuff to what he said.
10 месяцев назад+2
@@jordanminnix9698 There are usually reasons for that, and those can be both visual or behavioural. But it's still worth working it through, being honest and communicating with candor. It's a simple thing really - don't let the things that matter to you fester in your head until you start to hate/resent someone. Work on being self-aware enough that you can identify the problems in their infancy, when they haven't eaten up your relationship. But specifically to your question - I'd analyze what the reasons for that would be together with what type of relationship it is, and go from there. Obviously there isn't a single clear answer based on losing physical attractiveness alone.
10 месяцев назад+2
@@sdreeves42 That is my interpretation or 'what I learned from it' at least. At the very least he brought forth the ideas on what should be done, and the title of the video gave a question about it.. Though I admit you can look at it from a pov where there is at least SOME gappage between the two.
You don’t have to break up you can just be miserable with those principal disagreements, which I’m willing to do if she’s not willing to compromise, and I’m not willing to compromise and adjust our principles to match. Then we will always be disappointed with each other for how we used toilet paper rolls, but we will continue to stay together.
the hard thing is letting go of your worse parts, if you love someone, and that person truly loves you, they wont try to change you, but you will, of your own free will, cast aside the bullshit, the problem is that some bullshit is harder to let go or wash away... you can jack up your life really bad before you meet someone worth becoming your better self with
I feel like my relationship is a constant back and forth. Great days, bad days, days when everything is in fire. And days I want to keep fighting and make us better, and some days I just don’t care anymore. Those first 5 questions made me real sad. And the rest of this, I dunno.
Two years ago yes, those questions would’ve made me sad, but I am in a state now that I have to be 100% truthful with myself, and with her I am gentle and use anesthesia when delivering truth to her but truth must come out
Sexlessness. Sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t acknowledge you are a sexual being hurts so much. I was in a sexless marriage for years. Being a woman with a high libido, I felt inadequate. Worst I feel invisible. The man who was “supposed” to want me, just didn’t. We talked about it many times, more than I can recall now. It was always me. I wanted too much - once a week was too much for him. I didn’t initiate - he was always complaining of headaches, stomaches, always stressed, always tired. I was too sexual - when being subtle doesn’t work, what is next? Explicitly saying I wanted sex. Oh but then it was not appropriate. Conversations would end up with him saying he didn’t feel desired or I made him feel emasculated because he didn’t want sex as much as I did. Yeah, it was always me. I could never win. While we were dating we would have a decent amount of sex, it was good. The first huge red flag was not having sex in our honeymoon - which I ignored. It rapidly decrease to once a week, then every other week. Years gone by it was months in between, by the time we divorced it was over a year with no sex. I cried myself to sleep more times that I can count. I didn’t understand what was wrong with me. Was I that undesirable? Was I repulsive? After those conversations, I just stopped trying, initiating, mentioning sex. We were still loving - holding hands, hugging, kissing - but sex was off the table. He then cheated on me. Swore he had sex only 4 times in a year (or more) long affair. It didn’t matter. For years my self worth was damaged by him, years of low self esteem, years of feeling less of a woman, the marriage that was more than over, waiting in hospice, really ended. Funny how things are, I asked him for a divorce, he manipulated me into staying, next day his infidelity came to light. I was out as soon as I could. Best thing of my life. Additionally, If you're considering hiring a private investigator for proof of infidelity in a divorce case, Barry Investigations could be the right choice. By contacting them at Barryinvestigation@gmail. com, you can work with experienced professionals to uncover the truth. Make sure to discuss your legal rights and responsibilities, establish clear boundaries, and follow the investigator's guidelines to ensure a successful and discreet investigation.
One of the worst things is when one partner doesn't want to talk about things like an adult. To bring up every excuse in the book to make your point is very disappointing and the sad thing is she will never change.
If you know you have tried it and when you feel that relationship you are in is going nowhere and you see that it does not do you any good or bring anything good to your life or to the lives of those close to your heart . It is better to break up than to tease each other and God forbid that innocent children should pay in any way for this lack of consent .
My husband and I married and had never fought. Then for about two years we fought and fought and fought. We didn’t realise that what we were doing was setting up the framework for our existence. Now we fight and do not perceive it as fighting - to us it is our communication, we perceive it as direct and playful. Others, not used to fighting see it as a fight and struggle to manage their emotions in our very direct resolution of issues. I love Jordan’s perspective of not giving up, fighting towards solutions and Chris’s introduction of striving to carve each other towards perfection. Judgement is love
Maybe she meant judgement as in perfecting each other, the Michelangelo effect. Not the best word to use, but taking what she wrote above into account, I can safely assume that that is what she meant by judgement.
I think people confuse criticism with judgement. Judgement is the weighing of truth, of benefits vs cons, of assessing whether someone’s actions are adding to or diminishing them. Judgement is love - it is being honest with people in love and truth. Criticism is shallow diminishing without the love and without the intention to fix, resolve and improve. Anyway, that is my perception of these words. Judgement from a friend, relation or elder adds perspective, wisdom and guidance and is necessary for self correction. We need to be open to being wrong and learning better from others. We do not need to figure everything out on our own.
Sketchy is a word used to describe someone who probably can't see what's on offer because it's hidden. Needy is a word broken people use to shame unbroken people about being unbroken. Anger and aggression can come from anyone pushed hard enough but it always comes from the same place, pain, sadness and suffering. This culture is designed to see the flaws in behaviour without wasting time trying to understand the root cause. Knowing this for me has made my life easier, I can see past the behaviour, identify the cause and remove all judgement. From there bridges can be built and walls broken down.
All of my exes did not seek to find harmony when we had differences/disagreements/upsets, they would lash out or blame or argue in circles. The most recent man I dated ended things with me and listed a whole bunch of UNCOMMUNICATED emotional needs that I supposedly hadn’t or couldn’t meet for him. I was upfront about how I fear rejection and sometimes that makes me emotionally unavailable but that I’m working on it, and I did work on it with him. That really sucked, because someone just said “nope, you’re not enough, and not even worth working it out with.” But obviously he was not right for me. I know I’ll be a great partner for the right person who shares my values of understanding, compassion, communication, and forgiveness.
Being a great partner doesn't work with "the right person", it does work with what You have, what You chose, and with that one, now and here only. Everything else belongs into the "delusion"-department I'm afraid.
I don’t know the full story, but emotionally unavailability and having previous relationship baggage is detrimental for a relationship. If he clearly communicated to you before that he has boundaries and expectations and that you are not fulfilling, given the relationship was early, it’s warranted to leave. But his case he didn’t communicate that so, yikes. I’m in the same boat. Dating a girl who cannot be vulnerable with me due to her break up last year. It’s getting better but if over time (bear in mind I have communicated what I’m missing) it’s not being fulfilled, my two options are to keep suffering or move on. Men need a vulnerable woman. That’s how we are able to open up, understand you and thus be ourselves and allow the relationship to flow naturally and gracefully.
Being genuine and unafraid to approach the relationship with total honesty will eliminate most of the underlying questions. If they’re a match, they will be honest also.
Yes..willingness to listen, discuss, change is prerequisite to a healthy relationship...and there are many hurt, emotionally ill or even disabled people..who are not capable of basic life skills (yet functional at work, good at pretending to be "normal"). Then there is time to leave😎
That initial thread I personally don’t think is realistic. You think you’re looking out for things you want to be better, but really if you’re thinking this for a long time, you’ll never be happy. You’ll end up setting the bar so high and expect so much from them, whilst being very self obsessed.
I mean… I didn’t learn anything. I heard Peterson say the same thing he always does about compromise and communication. I’ve never heard him actually describe when you should end it
Psychological and physical sparring end in the same way. You can be conscious/unconscious or skilled/unskilled in the struggle. But it ends with dominance and submission. Learn to be graceful in both positions. Try to find those who are at your level to practice with. Like martial arts.
The title isn't really Jordan's fault. This was also taken from a much larger discussion so likely more information was shared. And I think Jordan took the road of explaining how to navigate a relationship instead of specifically when it should end, although again, he may have eventually gotten around to something on that topic.
00:07 Great questions! 1. If someone told you “you’re a lot like your partner,” would this be a complement to you? 2. Are you truly fulfilled, or just less lonely? 3. Are you able to be unapologetically yourself, or do you feel the need to show up differently to please your partner? 4. Are you in love with who your partner is right now as a whole, or are you only in love with their good side, their potential, or the idea of them? 5. Would you want your future or imagined child to date someone like your partner? NOW - if we invert them, they provide further opportunity for introspection, illuminating places in our own lives where we can get to work developing our relationship effectiveness. For example: 1. If someone told your mate “you’re a lot like your partner,” would this be a complement to them? (Why or why not?) 2. Is your partner truly fulfilled, or just less lonely? (How are you complicit in this state of affairs?) 3. Is your partner able to be unapologetically him/herself, or does he/she feel the need to show up differently to please you? (Don't forget to differentiate between 'changing who you are to fit in' and modulating bad behavior in the service of the relationship. Whole other subject there.) 4. Is your partner in love with who you are right now as a whole, or is he/she only in love with your good side, your potential, or the idea of you? (Are you seeking growth, or are you stuck in your ways?) 5. Would you want your future or imagined child to date someone like you? (Why or why not?) These would be great journal prompts, but don’t forget to engage these questions with your partner. This will help dispel assumptions and errant notions about who your partner is and their impressions of you. And of course, all of this is best approached with an open/growth mindset (heaven help anyone trying to navigate intimacy from a closed/fixed/defensive mindset) - but if you’ve read this far, and are listening to this podcast, that hopefully goes without saying.
many couples today don't wanna to work to make or restore the relationship back to harmony. But those who do, know no other feeling of total joy and true happiness... Two come together as one :) battling and slaying the dragons of life together!
Great way to evaluate your relationships. It is much harder to do than they portray it to be. It would make people/couples better and happier, if they tried it and it would be worth it.
Worst is living w someone that see issues and conflicts everywhere, it is like chaos is their natural order. And if you dont play along in the conflicts, you ARE the problem for not seeing them.
I'm feeling this right now. I don't know what I'm coming home to each day. I hate the constant mood swings. I don't even want to be intimate with him anymore. I feel like I need a break. When I was single, I loved coming home to my own peaceful space, but now I feel trapped in my own home.
If you can’t be in communion with somebody else over their battles in the world, you’re not with the right partner. It’s not a personal defect. But you have to have sympathy for your partners concerns. And that goes for men and women.
@@belle8i If moodswings affects the relationship, it is time to get help. It isnt the other partner’s issue to fix, it is not possible as it comes from within someone else. Worst is that they can perceive you to be the reason for those moodswings, then it is time to together seek help or get away.
@@maggiv5401 The point is, if they refuse to see that there is even an issue that drags the both of you down and causing conflict, it hasnt to do w sympathy, you simply cannot save people that dont want to save themselves, even if you love them. Would you go to an early grave w someone that is an alcoholic but refuses to acknowledge it? Same with someone that ruin peoples days like narcissists, why on earth would I extend my love for someone that dont want to get better? Somewhere you have to want to save yourself from going under.
@@martinmartin9084 I guess I didn’t make it clear that if you can’t have sympathy for their concerns, get out of the relationship. You bring up alcoholism. I would say have sympathy for the issues that make the person feel they need to drink. That’s not the same thing as accepting their idea that they have to drink excessively because they can’t stand life without it. Maybe will each have a different idea about what constitutes concerns.
Jordan Peterson used to be so precise in his language. I don't know what his point is half of the time now. I don't think he addressed the amazing questions in that reddit thread at any point, and as I understand it he's advocating for working like crazy in your relationship without first individually assessing if your partner is truly someone you should be investing this energy into.
Yes he is right , “convinced me that it is me.. “ we dressed up that “me, that I ” a lot instead of “try to discern, try to sit down , you sit there and I sit here, “ is a different tone.. the tone of handling things
I think people wanting those five things and wanting your partners to be perfect is the reason why everyone finds it so hard to date these days. I think everyone’s searching for the perfect mate, which is probably only a one and 1000 chance, sometimes you just gotta accept your differences and be there for your children. I think if you respect your partner, that’s a start. And don’t lie.
I was alone on the road for 5 years. I worked alone in very low population rural areas. After 2 years trying to get a date I had one option. I built the home, do the dishes, cook, laundry. Everything. She just plays on her phone. I wish I had the strength to break up but I am so lonely.
How do you only have one option? If someone was willing to get with you, someone else will too. It may not be soon or on your timeline, but if you aren't happy with your current situation the only solution is to breakup. Otherwise you'll only be wasting time you could have been searching for someone else or end up miserable forever.
I divorced my husband of 35 years because I was alone in a house with 2 people. He didn't want to work on the relationship, but he didn't want a divorce because he was happy. I wasn't happy and would rather be alone by myself than alone with someone else, so I left.
When you can't have dialogue ever. When you can't accept your own faults. When the other person can't accept his/her faults, can't have a dialogue about them. Not a native speaker alert here:)
Last question is the key if you are a parent. Tells you something needs to be done with the relationship . Even if it’s to grow as a couple and individual and lead to fuller relationship full of high regard.
I think when you click on this video. It already has spoken volumes about your current relationship. However just because you fell in love and also consequently fell into it possibly for the wrong reasons, doesn’t mean you and your partner can’t correct the course and grow your relationship into something beautiful.
I was so scared to click this vid but, again, JP speaks the truth! We don't need all the caveats about truly abusive relationships. I am SO grateful that I never threw away the opportunity to grow as a person by listening to someone I know loves me tell me something that hurt my feelings. ❤
Big fan of uncle Peterson but honestly have 1000 arguments and by the end of it you come to me and say honestly if you still feel love or being loved, because I did have countless arguments and I only came out of it more helpless.
Michelangelo effect is a toxic time-bomb if someone is working to change you into someone you don't wish to be and the partner is solely concerned with their own well-being and not yours.
Very true - and the fact is most falling in love- at the beginning, involves romantic projection. Which means that what you think you are seeing in them is actually nothing to do with them but a projection of something from your own subconscious. Totally recommend the author James hollis on this - fascinating
Yes, that's where the whole crux of the discussion talking about the back and forth comes in. It's not one person making their own statue, its each of you making each other's statues and agreeing on them as you go. In reality, it may be more like bonsai. They are never complete, always changing and both nature and artist play back and forth to create the tree as it is now and will never be again.
The first part of question 4, although incisively difficult to answer honestly, is ingenious, and probably the most important one to ask yourself. I bet many relationships wouldn't bear the scrutiny of these questions. Hard to know when to patch it up or tear it up (like the old song suggests!) I think couples who can honestly say that what they had at the beginning was real should probably not quit, and with mutual good will, can get back on the rails, grow, and end up glad. My mum agrees!
I have a tendency to leave the arguments since I had some bad traumas about arguments. It's really bad for any relationship that I have/had. I hope I can be better for the future tho
I heard the questions first question and my face changed right away and I knew, I already left my wife and I'm sure more thn ever I have made the right choice for myself and her.
I undrestood that way. When you can't have dialogue ever. When you can't accept your own faults. When the other person can't accept his/her faults, can't have a dialogue about them. Not a native speaker alert here:)
The problem is, if you say nothing about the first two times they did something, by the time you get to the 3rd, they completely deny the first two ever happened, which is basically a non-starter, and now you're fighting about that, and it gets absolutely nowhere and branches off into stuff that's unnecessary. One thing I've noticed in my experience is that a lot of the time one person has an issue with their tone of voice, which they are definitely aware of, but are in complete denial of it when directly addressed. Tone is everything in communication, especially with women, who reveal their true feelings behind what they're saying with their tone of voice.
I have this problem. I discovered that I am utterly blind to my own tone of voice when I'm speaking. My mind is so focused on the content that it pays no attention to presentation, and I'm constantly being informed that my tone is offensive when I don't intend to offend. People stop listening to the content when the tone is abravise. Obviously, my subconscious brain understands the nuances of tone and modulates my voice accordingly, but it's a struggle to keep that in my awareness. Not impossible, but a skill that seems to be more difficult for me and, I'm sure, for some percentage of the population.
Ask the people in your life how they perceive your tone. Is it sarcastic? Is it aggressive or angry? I can't deal with a person who talks to me in an angry and demanding tone.
Some people need to take the course of "how to know you're in a relationship" 1st because what is there to end? Just get out your feelings & treat them accordingly ✌🏽
Dear @JordanBPeterson In the interview, you dealt with the question of what potential abandoners can do about their dissatisfaction in relationships. While your answer essentially boils down to a change in the partner's behavior, I think it would be more promising if the potential quitter himself changed his behavior: First, he could look for constructive explanations for the partner's unpleasant behavior (partner is guided by positive motives but suffers from anxiety or stress) and focus on supporting the partner (putting aside his own offended pride, thinking about how to help the partner). Secondly, he could focus on positive interactions or the positive evaluation of interactions with the partner instead of looking for causes for his dissatisfaction in the behavior of the other partner. Thirdly, he could consider whether he is simply going through a crisis of life or meaning that has nothing to do with satisfying his social needs in the relationship. As a person who has always been abandoned and is looking for alternative solutions for the potential abandoner, the question naturally arises as to where my error in thinking lies? Thank you for your insights.
Side note for parents that are struggling. I am a divorced single momma of six kiddos. I've been taking a parenting class that teaches TBRI and I highly recommend parents look into taking these classes. ❤
@@naacrinternational6970 The issue isn't going outside, the issue is whenever you go outside 90% of people (including the elderly and toddlers) are glued to their internet devices. I did an experiment where I would go out with my children without bringing my phone and it was just incredible how difficult it was to interact with other parents at the playground because they were all on their smartphones non-stop. The world of 2024 is nearly completely digital and whatever isn't digital is integrated with and into the digital. Only a few billion people aren't online and by the end of this decade they will be a tiny minority as only the most remote parts of Africa won't be connected. I've been around tribal Vietnamese areas and the tribal people are all glued to their smartphones while many are begging for food. Meeting people has become harder if you're not connected. Not everyone is always online, but we shouldn't forget that this is an ever shrinking pool of people and there's no trends that suggests that this will reverse.
I’m in a marriage where my partner is just incapable of communicating her own thoughts or feelings. I mean genuinely not able to. She has become increasingly critical towards me (and our son) over time. Her work has a bearing on this (high stress, own business) to sn extent but after a while you just think enough now. The issue is that in order to overcome issues you have to communicate but also be willing to ask yourself hard questions. When these things are lacking things degenerate to the point where the love is just for the memory of how things used to be. I don’t want to fail but when you no longer can stand to be in the same room as that person, they are a v negative and toxic presence with never a compliment or nice word or sign of affection you have to get out while you still have your health. This is where I’m at and it’s very unsettling. So scared on the effect a divorce will have on our son (still only 14yrs). 😢
What about if your spouse has borderline personality disorder? Verbal abuse to the max (occasionally physical) and then profusely apologizing later almost every single day.
I am so sorry you’re in this situation. Being married to someone with a cluster B personality disorder is extremely difficult. The best advice is to seek therapy on your own if you can afford it so that you can come up with strategies to handle the meltdowns in a way that keeps you safe and honors your self respect and also helps to potentially diffuse the situation or at least doesn’t make it worse. You have to enforce really firm boundaries. The second your partner is out of control you need to leave the situation by having an agreement in advance that you’ll take a “break” and everyone can go to their respective corners to calm down. It is bad for both of you to tolerate any abuse of any kind. It also helps to get it through your head now that you cannot reason with a person that has lost control of their emotions. So stop trying 😂 I think that one was the hardest for me to learn. You cannot reason with irrational and abusive people.
Divorce Edit: someone being mentally ill doesn't excuse abuse. It sucks that the symptoms of your spouse's mental illness is abuse, but that's not your responsibility. Divorce
@@bufficliff8978 have to agree with you. Having a mental illness doesn’t excuse abuse. Psychosis deserves in patient treatment and outside of psychosis a person that isn’t in treatment and preventing abuse as their top priority deserves an immediate divorce
I’m bipolar and just brokeup with my girlfriend for this reason. I had called her every bad name under the Sun when raged up and regret it but it made me realize that I was with her for the wrong reasons and we split. Relationships are already hard, mental illness being mixed in makes the success rate very low. However your partners apologizes are likely sincere; I have said many hurtful things I wish I could take back and sadly never can.
No, a situationship is when you're "just talking": flirting, texting, vibing, but not gf/bf and not "together." You heard the question as asking if there's a potential for a relationship, but the question is about people who are already in relationships. The question's meaning of potential is asking "do you love who they could be (their potential), or do you love who they are?" "Do you love the career they might have or the people they might meet or the life you could have with them (potential) or do you love them how things are now?"
Jordan is talking about whether you can both courageously be yourselves. Chris is walking a thin line on the edge of narcissistic control talking about seeing something that isn’t that person and expecting them to become it. Just respect your partner and support them as they are, and if you can’t do that you are the problem. Accept it and do them a real favor and walk away so they can find someone who will respect them. And allow them to fully be themselves in peace.
The most important thing is if your partner is happiest with you. If not, let her go. Idk who needed to hear this but no matter what that's the outcome.
Lol what youguys said about that hidden soul you see is so true. Always when I felt I truly loved someone, it was me exactly seeing this. And it can be so deep sometimes it's hard even to find other explanations than the existence of a soul. But yeah nowadays many people have reduced all this to something very transactional and rational. Like, what figures do you makie, or, does he/she look good on parties... Very saddening. Love someone first you know. The rest is secondary to that.
My husband and i are usually in conflict daily about something. Not malicious conflict but bickering usually about something annoying i have done or something annoying he has done or i didn't hear him correctly or he made a rude comment. I always have considered that we have a happy marriage and have been together a very long time. Our youngest daughter feels very insecure about our " bickering" and scolds us for it. Now i know we are normal and actually are in a healthy relationship. At the end of the day i wouldn't care to spend time with anyone else but him and i think he feels the same. We have been through incredible hardship together and conflict and honesty is how we survived it.
It ends when either one or both parties can no longer stand the sight of each other. But the fact that when women say they are leaving the relationships ... it often ends with the deaths of the women ... means that safety is the real issue to be addressed. Between three and four women are killed each day in the U.S. by angry husbands or boyfriends who refuse to take "no" for an answer. Let us not pretend that marriage is always filled with bliss ... when the facts are anything BUT.
you mentioned the reddit thread saying “do you love your partner now for who they are not their potential or what they might be” but then you talk about slowly chipping away at this uncarved block to build something perfect… which takes seeing potential and possibility… can someone go deeper on this?
Hello you legends. Watch the full episode with Jordan here - ruclips.net/video/WEP5ubPMGDU/видео.html Get 20% discount & free shipping on your Lawnmower 5.0 at manscaped.com/wisdom (use code WISDOM)
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@@wamburakimani7422u ok 😅
This conversation was great and i laughed loud. Thank you Jordan l.
@@sheylarickabaugh It's great that he's basically dressed as The Joker too.
I’ve come to appreciate the way Jordan Peterson thinks. He gives a conclusion, and walks you through a scenario. But along the way he asks what seem stupid questions like “Do we want our child to be annoying?”. But what he’s doing is always questioning the underlying assumptions and really asking “Are we sure we know what we think we know?”. Fantastic logical process.
I would say he rather dances around the question than answers it.
He is caught between his ideology (and I like his ideology) to work things out or leave an unhealthy relationship.
Everything he said is true, but under the condition that BOTH people in the relationships are caring and respectful to each other.
@@puclopuclik4108it's not his job to answer those questions. That's for every individual himself to do. The important thing is asking the right questions!
@artschiloyan9101 are you for real? Did you ever read the heading of the video?
He was asked simple questions, and he didn't answer it, but he moved the conversation elsewhere.
And yes, it is his job to answer questions, considering he's coaching people to better themselves.
@@puclopuclik4108 nothing in relationships is "simple", much less the issues that come up in them. And you don't coach people by telling them "do this, do that". That's not coaching or teaching, that's giving orders. If you want anyone to learn something, you help them ask questions and come up with answers. That's what Jordan Peterson is so good at and that's what people appreciate him for.
@artschiloyan9101 To know if the relationship has any worth is the most important thing to know.
He is good in self-improvement coaching but terrible relationship adviser.
And he just proved it here by completely ignoring the topic.
My husband is my best friend. We went through hell and back but made rules in the beginning to maintain each other’s dignity. Did we sometimes slip up? Yes. Did it hurt? Yes. But we always apologized and took accountability. Sometimes it took time and we needed to separate and give ourselves time to think. Now, we rarely fight but we do have disagreements and we handle them with love and patience. I am always thinking about how I can honor my husband’s love and happiness and him for me. The other day he said to me that we complete each other, followed up with, “we’re like a pie, you’re one half and I’m the other, and we might be two different flavours but when you put us together, we complete the pie!” 😂😂😂
That’s beautiful
Now I want pie haha
How long did you separate for?
what a wholesome sounding relationship ❤
@@luizapaniyan9371 20 mins - 1 hour to give each other space to think, reflect and regulate our emotions.
The most exhausting thing in a relationship is someone who avoids conflict at all costs.
Uh oh
The most exhausting thing in a relationship is someone who thinks they understand conflict
Do men avoid conflict more than women or does it depend on the personality type (extrovert/introvert, something else..)?
Create a safe space for conflict to disagree Author Amy Edmondson right kind of wrong
Usually the ones who create conflict in the first place are the ones who avoid it at all cost. At least in my experience. Then they shoot the messenger for exposing them.
Just my $0.02 - ask yourself these questions multiple times over an extended period of time rather than just once when you’re emotionally charged.
You’ll answer these questions very differently depending on how things are with you at that very moment.
Wise.
Man, thank you so much for this
Worth more than 2 cents
It needs to be $0.07 now. Inflation is a bitch.
hm
A mature relationship between husband and wife is a beautiful thing. Its a perfect example of what good is. The love they have for each other. The peace they have. What they do for each other. The fights then feeling guilty and making up to each other. It just makes us better people when we have a lifetime partner.
😂 ok then why are women ending the relationship 😉
@freegender930 I don't understand your comment. What women?
@@chrisquinn394 Nearly 70 percent of divorces are initiated by the wife. In addition, over 50% of divorced wives never want to remarry while only about 30% of men express that same sentiment. 💍 😭 💰 🏡 👦👧💀
@@freegender930 so?
@freegender930 yeah I agree you better give up and leave em to me
7:57
"I'd it's genuine love, you see their hidden soul... You get a glimpse of the light they could reveal to the world. To act in love is to encourage that to come forward and to discourage anything that gets in its way."
Yes but what if the person is now an addict. To have healthy boundaries and not to become co-defendant or so involved with what their going through but to also layover them and hold the space- but then I become the therapist there. Cant ve that in a partnership. I agree - encourage that beautiful est self to come forward. But sometimes, we can’t be in closee partnership where theyre still figuring out what side of addiction they want to be on. Im open to hearing you’re guys’ thoughts on it . Thanks.
@@cassandraharrington7189that is certainly a difficult scenario to give advice on, but I'll leave you with this gym:
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve Elohiym and money.
- LUKE 16:13
A spouse cannot serve his addiction and his spouse. I don't like to recommend divorce, but it is scripturally available "for the hardness of man's heart." I would recommend being loving and patient where possible, but also honest and sincere while drawing a line in the sand. If this scenario is one you are in, I empathize with you and I hope for the ideal outcome.
100%, this part stuck with me as well!!
Sure, but it’s not your job to change someone. If a person wants to self destruct, no amount of talking or modeling behavior will make a difference. This was my partner. He’s an alcoholic. I left. I love him. au love his soul. But his lifestyle was making me lose my sanity. No amount of telling him mattered. He didn’t care about me the way I cared for him.
@@cassandraharrington7189Im an addict, in recovery. I assume you are the partner of an addict?
Addiction is a family disease. You will be affected by the addiction, one way or another: if you choose to be with him/her. How you allow it to affect you is your responsibility.
Be proactive. Join Al-Anon or Nar-Anon. A family disease and you need recovery too.
This part is important, for your wellbeing and for his/hers: You cannot change the addict, but you can change your reactions and behaviours towards them.
You can learn to allow others the dignity of making their own decisions and experiencing the consequences thereof. Then you are freed from feeling responsible for changing others. (Love the addict not the behaviour). This is done through empathy and understanding, or a genuine willingness to do so.
Addiction is illogical, it’s cunning, it’s powerful: empathy works because it’s real compassion grounded in understanding.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you’ll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.”
In a relationship, each share a separate burden of responsibility. The addict has to put their recovery first always. Progress and not perfection is he kept in mind.
Your responsibility is to first to yourself and then extended to the addict.
e wins and losses). grow, to understand and support and to
t can be very difficult to understand the behaviours of an addict. As much
A teacher of mine once told me “you can’t truly love someone they they can’t truly love you, unless you can be your genuine self, the good and the bad presented, and they still love you for who you are.
Thats not quite what JP is saying here.
I think ppl are taking this a bit too seriously, the known saying "if u cant handle me at my worst, u dont deserve me at my best". It has become an excuseflag to act like a dck all the time. No relationship survives this. Handle me at my worst. The constant wish to stay the same person and habits as single person. I even had to change my life and habits for my 4 chicken. Ppl need to realize that for a relationship to work you need to change. You need to swallow things that you wouldnt when single
I liked the tought. Thx for sharing
Can I be genuine if I can't show dislike for the bad?
Jordan said the darkness should be cast away. I guess you both have to be willing to do that. Is it really love if you allow yourself to have darkness?
I like the way Jordan immediately brings it back to earth, and shows it doesn't have to be perfect to be entirely good. Chris was talking about some ideal relationship where nothing ever is anything less than perfect, and you never catch yourself feeling disappointed. Jordan brings it back to YOU. You have the power to make lemonade out of lemons. You have the power to say, "why am I disappointed? Was what I was secretly hoping for really better than what I have, or what I can make of it?". Etc. I like that. It's two different approaches, but I like that he doesn't give up on the possibility of making it all work out by examining himself.
Ultimate Goal: "We should aim or try to make every day like the best moments of our best dates. It takes work but man is it worth it."
WOW. This hit me differently than most comments and conversations I've heard. Jordan Peterson is by far one of the best minds on planet earth at this current time. Period.
0:03 % Questions to ask yourself if you are unsure about your relationship:
1) If someone told you you're a lot like your partner would this be a compliment to you?
2) are you truly fulfilled or just less lonely?
3) are you able to be unapologetically yourself or do you need to show up differently to please your partner?
4) are you in love with who your partner is right now as a whole or are you only in love with their good side their potential or idea of them?
5) would you want your future or imagined child to date someone like your partner?
1:14, Solution 1:17 1:41 1:53 3:51
2:00 2:14 2:33 2:43 3:03 3:25
4:46
7:31 7:56
9:53 10:55
Epic and brutal truthhoods.
Where did he mention 4)?
Thank you
🫡🇺🇸🇮🇱🇺🇦🇦🇺🏴🇬🇧
Answering these questions myself only further confirmed my genuine love for my partner
Yep! To all of it. Going on 30 years of marriage. We started out great friends, went through many years of learning how to fight for that friendship, until we finally understood the real potential of what this incredible friendship could be. Years of struggling by both of us to stop being selfish and to love, truly love, one another. It’s normal to want to run the hell away and find relief in one’s own selfish needs. But to earn the trust that creates the magic of love, you have to stick it out until you figure it all out. 🌿
How long did it take to get to that point? (Struggling)
How do I distinguish between a "selfish needs" and a genuine desire to live my own life and go after my dreams?
You answered something I have been trying to understand for about three years. I had something like yours and went exactly how you said. Started out as friends, and 6 years later, we decided there was more potential. We loved one another but we both had selfish needs and both of us had this internal state of wanting to run away and we both knew it but did not understand. We did not try to work it out due to distance and being young. I always thought I had issues because I would have these "run away feelings" but realize it's normal, but of course, the lesson here is to push through those feelings and create something greater than you could ever imagine.
@@samstevens9947 Some years were better than others. I’m not sure there’s any kind of set time. For us, it was a process of learning to let go, processing the baggage we brought into our relationship, and understanding each other’s deeper motivations. One of our hurdles was a simple, yet difficult, realization that we fundamentally interacted with others in a really different way. He wanted to include family, friends, and other acquaintances in our marriage and I wanted to be more exclusive. He’s an extravert and I’m an introvert. We thought for many years the other person just didn’t love us enough. It even became a moral issue of he wanted to care about others and I wanted to care and nurture our relationship and family in a more singular way. The realization that we just value different ways of being in the world helped, me especially, to recognize how much happier our relationship could be if he had time with others to shoot the breeze, build connections and networks, outside of our marriage and family, and in turn he gave me special time alone with him each week. It took us years of staying committed to our marriage to find this balance. It was such a simple thing, but it took working through our insecurities and baggage first to see it. I’m not sure why that’s the example that came to me to share with you, but it felt right. I feel for your struggles. They can hurt so much. Just know that if you both want it bad enough and are willing to continue to include prayer and positive belief in your commitment to each other, you can overcome these struggles even when they feel impossible. ❤️
@@madeinhungaria2342 That’s a great question. When you’re in a committed relationship, the difference between selfishness and self-love, at least in my experience, isn’t always straight forward. I think the best measuring tool is how to think about and talk about how much both of you are considering the other person in your dreams, plans, and desires. Do you treat your partner like a valuable part of the equation or are you treating them like an accessory to your plans and needs. Partnership means our plans meld together and we work to support each other’s needs. Selfishness takes and demands, self-love establishes boundaries of love and respect. We all have personal needs, even when you’re trying to make others an important part of your life. The question is, are you giving the love and support you want back from your partner? If you can honestly say their needs matter as much as your own, and you both figure out what those needs are and work to give them to each other, occasional selfishness in the form of taking or expecting too much of the other person, which is going to happen because we’re all imperfect, won’t break the relationship. Did that answer your question? I’m sure there are a lot of ways to look at it, this is just one. ❤️
You're annoying me, convince me that it's me and I'll listen .. i love that!!!! You're hurting me, convince me that it's me and I'll listen... i freaking love this. Brilliant
If my partner would really come to me like that I would consider it extremely construed and passive aggressive though...
@@mytelevisionisdeadThere has to be a foundation of trust and a history of honesty and vulnerability as the framework for that kind of discussion.
Peterson and his wife agreed early on their marriage to always tell the truth to one another to the best of their ability, and they both have a disposition where that type of comment would seem genuine to me.
One would have to have trust and a history of sincerity and humility in the relationship for it to be perceived as it was intended.
No, it’s me, here’s a hug😊
Narcissists will “convince you it’s you” by digging up every wrong thing in your past that had nothing to do with them (like before they even met you) and throwing it at you to prove why you’re a weak not strong unfit unstable and bad oartner/friend/person and then will say everyone else feels the same way about you. And they’ll repeat this to you in many diff scenarios and methods until you’re broken down and start believing it and if you fight back or defend yourself they’ll say you’re defensive prideful and it’s further proof that you are all those thing bc look at you can’t even control yourself and you can’t be “told about yourself” so you rly start to think man they must know me in ways I don’t know myself I have to change if I’m rly that bad, and then all your old friends and family who have known you FOREVER say “how could you believe those things abt yourself, why would this person say those things you’re nothing like that” and the narc tells you your family and friends are people pleasers which is why you cry and moan to them bc they’ll tell you what u wanna hear and so you start to distrust yourself and everyone around you bc you “WSNT to be a better person” and the claims they see the bad to try to HELP U Be better that you’re just too sensitive and they Shane you and push your buttons and say if you were a good person a stabake person a smart person a strong person this wouldn’t bother you, see …. And they chip away at you every single day until you’re a shell and then they say to you (nail into coffin) “what happened to you , you have no life in you, you used to be so fun… you don’t do anything or have any goals or dreams you are not on my level. You’re so boring now…. Why are u always so touchy and sad why do you act like you don’t care and don’t need me anymore, you don’t know how to love yourself you don’t know how to love me. That’s why you aren’t good enough for me” blah blah ITS A HORRIBLE LIFE. Anyway case in point you can’t always ask anyone to “convince me” of their perception of you bc some people might take on that challenge as an opportunity to try to destroy you and soak in your misery like life juice or something…………. Back in the day they used to just call these kind of men “evil” or “insane” now they have terms for these types so yeah.
@@HeyTripleJgod, that sounds horrifying 😮
I married my wife and chose to be with her, not by how in sync we are, (lol we’re often not) but how we got though conflict. She always sought for resolution of “us” rather than just winning. lol a thousand fights is right, especially when kids came along. Thankfully we’re on our 10 years and I can say, in *most* ways we are closer and more “in sync” than we’ve ever been. Of course it’s not perfect, any one who says they have that is probably selling something. But in short, look for someone who can get though the conflict with you (and care about your relationship over his/her own pride) rather than searching endlessly for someone who “clicks” with you in every way.
Solid advice, thank you
Thanks you for the advice, never thought about it that way
But what happens if you're married and committed..... But then you meet that person who you click with in every way. That one you're so in tune with it's beyond scary.
@@FILTH_87be friends with them, and only friends. They don't have to be romantic and you can't know someone for a year or more. Don't give up something solid to chase chemistry.
@@FILTH_87decide if it’s worth throwing away stability for pleasure
"If you genuinely love someone, you see their hidden soul. You get a glimpse of the light they could reveal to the world. To act in love is to encourage that light to come forward and to discourage anything that could get in its way." - Jordan Peterson really speaks in poetry. Incredible!
“In most relationships you can break up or have 1,000 fights”. I felt that
Your ability to truly listen to your partner, in a way that helps you to understand yourself better is so much more important than trying to convince your partner of your point. That takes true vulnerability and humility.
Yes! Salient point. I've been married for 14 years and I certainly have been guilty of "heard but not _listened"_ (and she has too).
fr, learned that too late 💐
💯
No, that's called abuse.
For me, it's knowing that I'm way, way down on his list of priorities. My happiness, my wishes, my goals, simply do not matter to him.
😔
I’m sorry.. you are worthy of being valued and respected. ♥️
Why do you stay with this person?
I’m engaged and I feel that way it’s terrible 😢
@@lvgrl78 as someone who is married and in a crap relationship, it's easier to call of an engagement than to get a divorce. Marriage doesn't change a relationship, especially not for the better. Don't enter a life contract with someone who brings you misery because it won't change
leave !
This was not what I thought it was going to be and it really surprised me.. Interesting. I'm just leaving a relationship where the other person shut me down with anger every time I wanted to talk about a concern and accused me for wanting to argue because I wanted to talk through things. Every, single, time. It shouldn't be that hard.
Totally understand! My partner was the same way. It’s not a healthy relationship and I am ending the 7 year relationship.
I'm going to have "It wasn't what I thought it would be" engraved on my tombstone.
You are smart to go now.
We got married last year and we are now ending it. Similar feeling. Her definition of fights is when I try to figure out why she’s mad which happens constantly and I might say something and if she doesn’t like it then I become the issue. I try to talk to her but says I’m not a good communicator so why try or she’ll say “ I told you already, did you not listen? I try my best to ask her to please tell it again but she’ll say “I told you already.”
We keep getting in to the cycle and if we’re happy 1 week I know it’ll happen again soon to where it becomes monthly. How many times is she my wife during the month I’m not sure maybe half of the time.
@@Loth-n1vsame here, I just ended a relationship because she’s a very negative person. She said that I don’t meet her expectations and I hurt her before by leaving her cause of the same freaking thing. She’s always negative and when I ask her why, she would refuse to communicate and only communicate when she’s not mad. The issue was never fixed. I tried so hard to find ways making things work but she just couldn’t drop her ego, maybe it’s her pride. I tried my best to tolerate but I don’t want the rest of my life to be like this, to be in this cycle, keep guessing why she’s not happy. I just want to communicate calmly like adults but that never happened. Refuse to communicate is like a crucifix of a relationship. Almost two years with her, ended it yesterday. We cried a lot but love without action is not enough to hold a relationship. I’m upset but my logic is telling me that is the right move. I love her a lot and I have to let her know where my boundary is. Sometimes love means letting someone go. In order for us to learn and grow.
"My worst breakup was with Stacy. It was Sunday morning, we were reading the paper and I said, 'Oh my God, I think the Eagles could clinch the NFC East!' And she said, 'We’re done'." - Kevin, from The Office
😂
I don't get it
I recently went through a difficult breakup. My five year relationship ended a month ago, and it's been incredibly hard. I still have so much love for my ex girlfriend, and I can't seem to get her out of my mind. Despite my best efforts to win her back, nothing has worked, and the thought of being with anyone else feels impossible right now. I know it might sound odd to share this here, but I miss her deeply and can't stop thinking about her.
I completely understand the pain of letting go of someone you love. I went through a similar experience when my 10 year relationship ended. I couldn't imagine my life without her, so I tried everything to rekindle our love. I eventually found guidance from a spiritual counselor, and their support helped me bring her back into my life.
If you're open to it, seeking help from a spiritual counselor might make a difference. How did you find your spiritual counselor, and how can I get in touch with them?
His name is Fatherabulu, and he's an incredible spiritual counselor known for helping restore relationships.
Thank you for sharing this valuable insight. I just looked him up, and I'm genuinely impressed.
Stop trying to win her back, if she knows you are still an option then she isn't truly grieving the break up bc she knows she can have it. Go no contact and then she may decide she actually wants the relationship
10 minutes in... to even try to set boundaries is still an act of respect for everybody involved.
True. However, boundaries only work if the other person is willing to respect them. You can't force a person to respect your boundaries.
I've been married for 35 yrs. I've suffered 7 betrayals from him , only stayed to fight because he didn't get sexual with them. Even his church counselor said it wasn't enough to divorce so I carried on trying. I've been there for him every time he's lost his job. Which is often. He has anxiety and adhd. But now I'm exhausted and I can't fight anymore. My health is suffering . I'm out.
Sounds like it’s a long time coming. Best of luck. Muster as much confidence and strength as possible.
"he didn't get sexual with them" - yeah, right
Well I would say you’ve done enough and put up with enough. If you completely tried everything to make things work, then you can look in the mirror and say I tried all I could.
When your sanity is collapsing I would say Yeha it’s time to go. That’s like the only thing you have at the end of the day that is completely yours Your sanity. You can’t help anyone else ever if you’re a wreck.
How many kids
35 years is a long time. There is much not being covered here that ought to be.
Still a sad state of affairs.
Interesting that Peterson is impressing that a peaceful relationship attained through fighting about things constitutes a good relationship. While it does make sense, it doesn't address Chris' other points about being happy/fulfilled with the relationship. I'm amazed to find in my adult life how many people are together because they don't want to be alone, can't survive alone, or are just together for the kids. I guess it's noble in some sense to sacrifice your happiness/pleasure for someone else but you also have to question what kind of an environment does that create? It's also interesting to look at this as someone who is older and single, and how often I get shamed or questioned about whether or not I've found a partner by people who are obviously unhappy with theirs. I guess shared misery helps it seem less bad.
You're not supposed to be entirely fulfilled by your partner. Those relationships are unhealthy 95%+ of the time.
Peterson has advised in the past to find someone who is a beneficial foil so you both mutually improve one another over time.
The partner isn't fulfillment--meaning is fulfilling. A phenomenal spouse with no other meaning will leave one unfulfilled.
To answer your question, no it does not get less bad. Your authenticity is diminished and the example you are setting for your children reaches into your future watching them struggle with behaviors YOU modeled for them.
I hope my husband watches it peacefully and bloody fights with me to figure things out. It's worth fighting for the love of your life with the love of your life. Great video as always, dr. Peterson is such a treasure to my life.
Rozumiem Ciebie
JP was my prof when I studied at U o T years ago 2004.I wish I had the sense to listen better. But at least he is no longer being wasted in Sid Smith hall and now belongs to the world. He is a Viking and Christian Saint and I wish he was my father.
Cool. By chance, what percentage south asian was UoT back then?
Does your father know that?
Oh dear.
A very fascinating video, this brings back painful memories which i have been enduring. My relationship of 6 years ended 3 months ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
Parting ways with someone you deeply cherish is an agonizing experience. I understand firsthand, having encountered a parallel situation at the end of my 7 year relationship. Driven by an unyielding determination, I explored every avenue to salvage our bond. Seeking guidance from a spiritual counselor proved pivotal, as their intervention played a crucial role in rekindling our love.
That's fascinating! How did you come across a spiritual counselor, and what's the best way for me to contact her?
Meet Suzanne Ann Walters, an outstanding spiritual counselor with the power to restore your relationship with your ex
I'm grateful for this valuable information; I've just taken a moment to find her online. Very impressive!
Its ok. It will be ok. I'm sorry. My 11 year partner is leaving, he's already left emotionally. I know it's coming and I'm not sure whether to rip the band aid off. 😢 I don't know what to do.
Love this! As I was watching, it occurred to me that Jordan NEEDS to write a book in regards to raising children. Settin boundaries are so important! If boundaries were enforced, we might not be in the mess we are with this generation!
Absolutely. I so agree with you. Howeve imagine his fight against the industry that feeds parents false advice to "avoid traumatising " kids
“This part of you is not worthy to continue” that’s such a gracious way to correcting someone
I practice this level of healthy discussion/confrontation of issues with my partner and it goes to shit because the other party has to be able to find it in themselves to take accountability for actions in a mature way. That's the part that sucks.
If you’re 100% committed to staying and not bailing and not bailing on them then you need to tell him the truth you need to Foster 🟠 and Gardner environment to bring problems to their attention and remember that they will try to fight it to maintain their delusion of who they are, but don’t let them stay with them know that they are not trying to anger you they are just trying to protect themselves when they mock dismiss Stonewall you and we can get through it
@@JasonfromMinnesota But there has to be a point at which they have to move off their ignorance or the relationship can't continue right? You can stay committed and take as much responsibility for their inability to do what you know they should, but if they refuse to do so, there has to come a time where you recognize that they are never going to change, or at the very least, they are never going to change for you. And maybe the problem is they are convinced you'll never leave, and you you'll never leave, then why do they need to change. So perhaps in leaving or threatening to (and meaning it) leave they might be motivated enough to change. But I'd say they'd have waited too long and they can deal with that in their next relationship.
I think one of the most important things that helps never just stay together, and even be happier than most of the others is when a couple has the same sense of humor! I almost swear by that. The problem is sometimes you learn that too late that person you married, actually turns out to be boring and not as fun as you initially thought. Laughing together and finding the same stuff funny and joking is really important and I think it really helps a lot.
For the people who say they didn't learn anything or Peterson didn't stay on topic: He did, the point when you need to think or decide about breaking up comes when you talk those issues through and it boils down to principal disagreements that can't be compromised on or solved. If there are no solutions to be found at the core of the issues, THAT is where the decision needs to be done.
What if there’s no physical attraction anymore?
Yeah no he didn't say that at all. You're just adding a bunch of stuff to what he said.
@@jordanminnix9698 There are usually reasons for that, and those can be both visual or behavioural. But it's still worth working it through, being honest and communicating with candor. It's a simple thing really - don't let the things that matter to you fester in your head until you start to hate/resent someone. Work on being self-aware enough that you can identify the problems in their infancy, when they haven't eaten up your relationship.
But specifically to your question - I'd analyze what the reasons for that would be together with what type of relationship it is, and go from there. Obviously there isn't a single clear answer based on losing physical attractiveness alone.
@@sdreeves42 That is my interpretation or 'what I learned from it' at least. At the very least he brought forth the ideas on what should be done, and the title of the video gave a question about it.. Though I admit you can look at it from a pov where there is at least SOME gappage between the two.
You don’t have to break up you can just be miserable with those principal disagreements, which I’m willing to do if she’s not willing to compromise, and I’m not willing to compromise and adjust our principles to match. Then we will always be disappointed with each other for how we used toilet paper rolls, but we will continue to stay together.
the hard thing is letting go of your worse parts, if you love someone, and that person truly loves you, they wont try to change you, but you will, of your own free will, cast aside the bullshit, the problem is that some bullshit is harder to let go or wash away... you can jack up your life really bad before you meet someone worth becoming your better self with
This isn't accurate. A partner who truly loves you and is invested in you, will always challenge you to become the best version of yourself.
@@stefaniamoore4641 as long as challenging doesnt become fixing, i agree, but we both know wich one is more common
I feel like my relationship is a constant back and forth. Great days, bad days, days when everything is in fire. And days I want to keep fighting and make us better, and some days I just don’t care anymore. Those first 5 questions made me real sad. And the rest of this, I dunno.
Two years ago yes, those questions would’ve made me sad, but I am in a state now that I have to be 100% truthful with myself, and with her I am gentle and use anesthesia when delivering truth to her but truth must come out
Invalidation ruins relationships
Sexlessness. Sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t acknowledge you are a sexual being hurts so much. I was in a sexless marriage for years. Being a woman with a high libido, I felt inadequate. Worst I feel invisible. The man who was “supposed” to want me, just didn’t. We talked about it many times, more than I can recall now. It was always me. I wanted too much - once a week was too much for him. I didn’t initiate - he was always complaining of headaches, stomaches, always stressed, always tired. I was too sexual - when being subtle doesn’t work, what is next? Explicitly saying I wanted sex. Oh but then it was not appropriate.
Conversations would end up with him saying he didn’t feel desired or I made him feel emasculated because he didn’t want sex as much as I did. Yeah, it was always me. I could never win. While we were dating we would have a decent amount of sex, it was good. The first huge red flag was not having sex in our honeymoon - which I ignored. It rapidly decrease to once a week, then every other week. Years gone by it was months in between, by the time we divorced it was over a year with no sex. I cried myself to sleep more times that I can count. I didn’t understand what was wrong with me. Was I that undesirable? Was I repulsive? After those conversations, I just stopped trying, initiating, mentioning sex. We were still loving - holding hands, hugging, kissing - but sex was off the table. He then cheated on me. Swore he had sex only 4 times in a year (or more) long affair. It didn’t matter.
For years my self worth was damaged by him, years of low self esteem, years of feeling less of a woman, the marriage that was more than over, waiting in hospice, really ended. Funny how things are, I asked him for a divorce, he manipulated me into staying, next day his infidelity came to light. I was out as soon as I could. Best thing of my life.
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I am 68. I am happy that you escaped. Same thing happened to me.
Take care of the woman, dear!
One of the worst things is when one partner doesn't want to talk about things like an adult. To bring up every excuse in the book to make your point is very disappointing and the sad thing is she will never change.
If you know you have tried it and when you feel that relationship you are in is going nowhere and you see that it does not do you any good or bring anything good to your
life or to the lives of those close to your heart .
It is better to break up than to tease each other and God forbid
that innocent children should pay in any way for this lack of consent .
My husband and I married and had never fought.
Then for about two years we fought and fought and fought.
We didn’t realise that what we were doing was setting up the framework for our existence.
Now we fight and do not perceive it as fighting - to us it is our communication, we perceive it as direct and playful. Others, not used to fighting see it as a fight and struggle to manage their emotions in our very direct resolution of issues.
I love Jordan’s perspective of not giving up, fighting towards solutions and Chris’s introduction of striving to carve each other towards perfection.
Judgement is love
Judgement isn't love. That's a ridiculous thing to say.
@@jaserogers997agreed. A completely ridiculous thing to say
Maybe she meant judgement as in perfecting each other, the Michelangelo effect.
Not the best word to use, but taking what she wrote above into account, I can safely assume that that is what she meant by judgement.
I think people confuse criticism with judgement. Judgement is the weighing of truth, of benefits vs cons, of assessing whether someone’s actions are adding to or diminishing them. Judgement is love - it is being honest with people in love and truth.
Criticism is shallow diminishing without the love and without the intention to fix, resolve and improve.
Anyway, that is my perception of these words. Judgement from a friend, relation or elder adds perspective, wisdom and guidance and is necessary for self correction. We need to be open to being wrong and learning better from others. We do not need to figure everything out on our own.
Love is judgment and mercy. It's the yin and the yang.
Sketchy is a word used to describe someone who probably can't see what's on offer because it's hidden.
Needy is a word broken people use to shame unbroken people about being unbroken.
Anger and aggression can come from anyone pushed hard enough but it always comes from the same place, pain, sadness and suffering.
This culture is designed to see the flaws in behaviour without wasting time trying to understand the root cause. Knowing this for me has made my life easier, I can see past the behaviour, identify the cause and remove all judgement. From there bridges can be built and walls broken down.
Sometimes practicalities, money etc, after a long time can stop you making a final decision
All of my exes did not seek to find harmony when we had differences/disagreements/upsets, they would lash out or blame or argue in circles. The most recent man I dated ended things with me and listed a whole bunch of UNCOMMUNICATED emotional needs that I supposedly hadn’t or couldn’t meet for him. I was upfront about how I fear rejection and sometimes that makes me emotionally unavailable but that I’m working on it, and I did work on it with him. That really sucked, because someone just said “nope, you’re not enough, and not even worth working it out with.” But obviously he was not right for me. I know I’ll be a great partner for the right person who shares my values of understanding, compassion, communication, and forgiveness.
Being a great partner doesn't work with "the right person", it does work with what You have, what You chose, and with that one, now and here only. Everything else belongs into the "delusion"-department I'm afraid.
I don’t know the full story, but emotionally unavailability and having previous relationship baggage is detrimental for a relationship.
If he clearly communicated to you before that he has boundaries and expectations and that you are not fulfilling, given the relationship was early, it’s warranted to leave. But his case he didn’t communicate that so, yikes.
I’m in the same boat. Dating a girl who cannot be vulnerable with me due to her break up last year. It’s getting better but if over time (bear in mind I have communicated what I’m missing) it’s not being fulfilled, my two options are to keep suffering or move on.
Men need a vulnerable woman. That’s how we are able to open up, understand you and thus be ourselves and allow the relationship to flow naturally and gracefully.
@@pete8220-g5p You're going to regret and learn real quick that trying to get with emotionally unavailable woman is a losing battle.
Sorry to hear that, here’s a hug😊
If ALL of your exes did the same thing, it might be YOU. That was a big point of Jordan's.
Being genuine and unafraid to approach the relationship with total honesty will eliminate most of the underlying questions.
If they’re a match, they will be honest also.
Yes..willingness to listen, discuss, change is prerequisite to a healthy relationship...and there are many hurt, emotionally ill or even disabled people..who are not capable of basic life skills (yet functional at work, good at pretending to be "normal"). Then there is time to leave😎
One of the best videos on the internet right now. Literally saved my relationship
That initial thread I personally don’t think is realistic. You think you’re looking out for things you want to be better, but really if you’re thinking this for a long time, you’ll never be happy. You’ll end up setting the bar so high and expect so much from them, whilst being very self obsessed.
I mean… I didn’t learn anything. I heard Peterson say the same thing he always does about compromise and communication. I’ve never heard him actually describe when you should end it
When the other person won't compromise or communicate. Always running away from disagreements or being upset.
He doesn't believe in throwing in the towel. You have to work it out.
Psychological and physical sparring end in the same way. You can be conscious/unconscious or skilled/unskilled in the struggle. But it ends with dominance and submission. Learn to be graceful in both positions. Try to find those who are at your level to practice with. Like martial arts.
The title isn't really Jordan's fault. This was also taken from a much larger discussion so likely more information was shared. And I think Jordan took the road of explaining how to navigate a relationship instead of specifically when it should end, although again, he may have eventually gotten around to something on that topic.
Love = vulnerability, loving someone opens you up to being chopped down later if you pick wrong, just how it is.
I learn it the hard way...
Those type of videos of Jordan Peterson I love the most. I can relate to it and apply it in real life. Life changing advise!
00:07 Great questions!
1. If someone told you “you’re a lot like your partner,” would this be a complement to you?
2. Are you truly fulfilled, or just less lonely?
3. Are you able to be unapologetically yourself, or do you feel the need to show up differently to please your partner?
4. Are you in love with who your partner is right now as a whole, or are you only in love with their good side, their potential, or the idea of them?
5. Would you want your future or imagined child to date someone like your partner?
NOW - if we invert them, they provide further opportunity for introspection, illuminating places in our own lives where we can get to work developing our relationship effectiveness. For example:
1. If someone told your mate “you’re a lot like your partner,” would this be a complement to them? (Why or why not?)
2. Is your partner truly fulfilled, or just less lonely? (How are you complicit in this state of affairs?)
3. Is your partner able to be unapologetically him/herself, or does he/she feel the need to show up differently to please you? (Don't forget to differentiate between 'changing who you are to fit in' and modulating bad behavior in the service of the relationship. Whole other subject there.)
4. Is your partner in love with who you are right now as a whole, or is he/she only in love with your good side, your potential, or the idea of you? (Are you seeking growth, or are you stuck in your ways?)
5. Would you want your future or imagined child to date someone like you? (Why or why not?)
These would be great journal prompts, but don’t forget to engage these questions with your partner. This will help dispel assumptions and errant notions about who your partner is and their impressions of you. And of course, all of this is best approached with an open/growth mindset (heaven help anyone trying to navigate intimacy from a closed/fixed/defensive mindset) - but if you’ve read this far, and are listening to this podcast, that hopefully goes without saying.
many couples today don't wanna to work to make or restore the relationship back to harmony. But those who do, know no other feeling of total joy and true happiness... Two come together as one :) battling and slaying the dragons of life together!
Great way to evaluate your relationships. It is much harder to do than they portray it to be. It would make people/couples better and happier, if they tried it and it would be worth it.
Worst is living w someone that see issues and conflicts everywhere, it is like chaos is their natural order. And if you dont play along in the conflicts, you ARE the problem for not seeing them.
I'm feeling this right now. I don't know what I'm coming home to each day. I hate the constant mood swings. I don't even want to be intimate with him anymore. I feel like I need a break. When I was single, I loved coming home to my own peaceful space, but now I feel trapped in my own home.
If you can’t be in communion with somebody else over their battles in the world, you’re not with the right partner. It’s not a personal defect. But you have to have sympathy for your partners concerns. And that goes for men and women.
@@belle8i
If moodswings affects the relationship, it is time to get help.
It isnt the other partner’s issue to fix, it is not possible as it comes from within someone else.
Worst is that they can perceive you to be the reason for those moodswings, then it is time to together seek help or get away.
@@maggiv5401
The point is, if they refuse to see that there is even an issue that drags the both of you down and causing conflict, it hasnt to do w sympathy, you simply cannot save people that dont want to save themselves, even if you love them.
Would you go to an early grave w someone that is an alcoholic but refuses to acknowledge it?
Same with someone that ruin peoples days like narcissists, why on earth would I extend my love for someone that dont want to get better?
Somewhere you have to want to save yourself from going under.
@@martinmartin9084 I guess I didn’t make it clear that if you can’t have sympathy for their concerns, get out of the relationship. You bring up alcoholism. I would say have sympathy for the issues that make the person feel they need to drink. That’s not the same thing as accepting their idea that they have to drink excessively because they can’t stand life without it. Maybe will each have a different idea about what constitutes concerns.
Jordan Peterson used to be so precise in his language. I don't know what his point is half of the time now. I don't think he addressed the amazing questions in that reddit thread at any point, and as I understand it he's advocating for working like crazy in your relationship without first individually assessing if your partner is truly someone you should be investing this energy into.
Jup. Exactly.
Yes he is right , “convinced me that it is me.. “ we dressed up that “me, that I ” a lot instead of “try to discern, try to sit down , you sit there and I sit here, “ is a different tone.. the tone of handling things
I think people wanting those five things and wanting your partners to be perfect is the reason why everyone finds it so hard to date these days. I think everyone’s searching for the perfect mate, which is probably only a one and 1000 chance, sometimes you just gotta accept your differences and be there for your children. I think if you respect your partner, that’s a start. And don’t lie.
I was alone on the road for 5 years. I worked alone in very low population rural areas. After 2 years trying to get a date I had one option. I built the home, do the dishes, cook, laundry. Everything. She just plays on her phone. I wish I had the strength to break up but I am so lonely.
How do you only have one option? If someone was willing to get with you, someone else will too. It may not be soon or on your timeline, but if you aren't happy with your current situation the only solution is to breakup. Otherwise you'll only be wasting time you could have been searching for someone else or end up miserable forever.
I divorced my husband of 35 years because I was alone in a house with 2 people. He didn't want to work on the relationship, but he didn't want a divorce because he was happy. I wasn't happy and would rather be alone by myself than alone with someone else, so I left.
I love socializing with people. But "about a minute, minute and a half will do it. " - George Carlin
LOL. Truer words were never spoken.
Awesome video... But, so... How do I know when to end it?
When you can't have dialogue ever. When you can't accept your own faults. When the other person can't accept his/her faults, can't have a dialogue about them. Not a native speaker alert here:)
Last question is the key if you are a parent. Tells you something needs to be done with the relationship . Even if it’s to grow as a couple and individual and lead to fuller relationship full of high regard.
I think when you click on this video. It already has spoken volumes about your current relationship. However just because you fell in love and also consequently fell into it possibly for the wrong reasons, doesn’t mean you and your partner can’t correct the course and grow your relationship into something beautiful.
I’m out when 1 person is in the relationship and I was out @ left the field never looked back & it’s been a awsome journey
I was so scared to click this vid but, again, JP speaks the truth! We don't need all the caveats about truly abusive relationships. I am SO grateful that I never threw away the opportunity to grow as a person by listening to someone I know loves me tell me something that hurt my feelings. ❤
My ex said anything but his way was a comprimise... there was no committment to a system/ environment where both people are happy.
What part of this clip says when you should end it? All I've heard after watching are excuses to remain with someone.
Jordan is always there to help us move closer to the truth
I tell childen that playing is fun, when you are both enjoying it. When it is not fun for all the players, it is not play, it is something els.
Big fan of uncle Peterson but honestly have 1000 arguments and by the end of it you come to me and say honestly if you still feel love or being loved, because I did have countless arguments and I only came out of it more helpless.
Michelangelo effect is a toxic time-bomb if someone is working to change you into someone you don't wish to be and the partner is solely concerned with their own well-being and not yours.
Very true - and the fact is most falling in love- at the beginning, involves romantic projection. Which means that what you think you are seeing in them is actually nothing to do with them but a projection of something from your own subconscious. Totally recommend the author James hollis on this - fascinating
Yes, that's where the whole crux of the discussion talking about the back and forth comes in. It's not one person making their own statue, its each of you making each other's statues and agreeing on them as you go. In reality, it may be more like bonsai. They are never complete, always changing and both nature and artist play back and forth to create the tree as it is now and will never be again.
the idea is, you should want to change and be the best possible version of yourself, for your partner
The first part of question 4, although incisively difficult to answer honestly, is ingenious, and probably the most important one to ask yourself. I bet many relationships wouldn't bear the scrutiny of these questions. Hard to know when to patch it up or tear it up (like the old song suggests!) I think couples who can honestly say that what they had at the beginning was real should probably not quit, and with mutual good will, can get back on the rails, grow, and end up glad. My mum agrees!
I have a tendency to leave the arguments since I had some bad traumas about arguments. It's really bad for any relationship that I have/had. I hope I can be better for the future tho
I heard the questions first question and my face changed right away and I knew, I already left my wife and I'm sure more thn ever I have made the right choice for myself and her.
Was literally scrubbing through the full podcast yesterday trying to find this clip... thank you for posting it! 🙌
Jordan looks so healthy and happy right now ❤
This Man is very depressing..
Marriage is a long term project that should not be undertaken by two people who can't agree on at least that
I love this. Sadly, many people don't want to change and our current culture is telling them to 'just be you' and 'don't change for anyone.'
I don't see where he answered the question ❓ ❓ of "when to end a relationship"
thought i was the only one
I undrestood that way. When you can't have dialogue ever. When you can't accept your own faults. When the other person can't accept his/her faults, can't have a dialogue about them. Not a native speaker alert here:)
That's the thing you must have missed the point because he didn't mention when to leave on purpose. That's not the reason you started a relationship.
Is this `do as I say` or `do as I do` ?
Should we lean into the pain or neck more SSRIs, Benzos and painkillers?
The problem is, if you say nothing about the first two times they did something, by the time you get to the 3rd, they completely deny the first two ever happened, which is basically a non-starter, and now you're fighting about that, and it gets absolutely nowhere and branches off into stuff that's unnecessary. One thing I've noticed in my experience is that a lot of the time one person has an issue with their tone of voice, which they are definitely aware of, but are in complete denial of it when directly addressed. Tone is everything in communication, especially with women, who reveal their true feelings behind what they're saying with their tone of voice.
So you've already learned that you need to approach things differently
@@bufficliff8978 You're missing the point, the point is there's no good way to approach it, it's a paradox, a catch-22.
I have this problem. I discovered that I am utterly blind to my own tone of voice when I'm speaking. My mind is so focused on the content that it pays no attention to presentation, and I'm constantly being informed that my tone is offensive when I don't intend to offend.
People stop listening to the content when the tone is abravise.
Obviously, my subconscious brain understands the nuances of tone and modulates my voice accordingly, but it's a struggle to keep that in my awareness.
Not impossible, but a skill that seems to be more difficult for me and, I'm sure, for some percentage of the population.
Ask the people in your life how they perceive your tone. Is it sarcastic? Is it aggressive or angry? I can't deal with a person who talks to me in an angry and demanding tone.
Some people need to take the course of "how to know you're in a relationship" 1st because what is there to end? Just get out your feelings & treat them accordingly ✌🏽
I’m glad that Peterson doesn’t follow -Reddit logic- and actually _leans into_ the discomfort *competently* rather than away.
Dear @JordanBPeterson
In the interview, you dealt with the question of what potential abandoners can do about their dissatisfaction in relationships. While your answer essentially boils down to a change in the partner's behavior, I think it would be more promising if the potential quitter himself changed his behavior: First, he could look for constructive explanations for the partner's unpleasant behavior (partner is guided by positive motives but suffers from anxiety or stress) and focus on supporting the partner (putting aside his own offended pride, thinking about how to help the partner). Secondly, he could focus on positive interactions or the positive evaluation of interactions with the partner instead of looking for causes for his dissatisfaction in the behavior of the other partner. Thirdly, he could consider whether he is simply going through a crisis of life or meaning that has nothing to do with satisfying his social needs in the relationship. As a person who has always been abandoned and is looking for alternative solutions for the potential abandoner, the question naturally arises as to where my error in thinking lies? Thank you for your insights.
it's the manscaping ad at the end that does it for me
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Side note for parents that are struggling. I am a divorced single momma of six kiddos. I've been taking a parenting class that teaches TBRI and I highly recommend parents look into taking these classes. ❤
I'll remember this if I ever actually get to have a relationship.
Put the phone down. Go outside. Meet people. Whatever they might tell you, the world is not digital.
@@naacrinternational6970 The issue isn't going outside, the issue is whenever you go outside 90% of people (including the elderly and toddlers) are glued to their internet devices. I did an experiment where I would go out with my children without bringing my phone and it was just incredible how difficult it was to interact with other parents at the playground because they were all on their smartphones non-stop. The world of 2024 is nearly completely digital and whatever isn't digital is integrated with and into the digital. Only a few billion people aren't online and by the end of this decade they will be a tiny minority as only the most remote parts of Africa won't be connected.
I've been around tribal Vietnamese areas and the tribal people are all glued to their smartphones while many are begging for food. Meeting people has become harder if you're not connected. Not everyone is always online, but we shouldn't forget that this is an ever shrinking pool of people and there's no trends that suggests that this will reverse.
I’m in a marriage where my partner is just incapable of communicating her own thoughts or feelings. I mean genuinely not able to. She has become increasingly critical towards me (and our son) over time. Her work has a bearing on this (high stress, own business) to sn extent but after a while you just think enough now. The issue is that in order to overcome issues you have to communicate but also be willing to ask yourself hard questions. When these things are lacking things degenerate to the point where the love is just for the memory of how things used to be. I don’t want to fail but when you no longer can stand to be in the same room as that person, they are a v negative and toxic presence with never a compliment or nice word or sign of affection you have to get out while you still have your health. This is where I’m at and it’s very unsettling. So scared on the effect a divorce will have on our son (still only 14yrs). 😢
What about if your spouse has borderline personality disorder? Verbal abuse to the max (occasionally physical) and then profusely apologizing later almost every single day.
I am so sorry you’re in this situation. Being married to someone with a cluster B personality disorder is extremely difficult.
The best advice is to seek therapy on your own if you can afford it so that you can come up with strategies to handle the meltdowns in a way that keeps you safe and honors your self respect and also helps to potentially diffuse the situation or at least doesn’t make it worse.
You have to enforce really firm boundaries. The second your partner is out of control you need to leave the situation by having an agreement in advance that you’ll take a “break” and everyone can go to their respective corners to calm down.
It is bad for both of you to tolerate any abuse of any kind.
It also helps to get it through your head now that you cannot reason with a person that has lost control of their emotions. So stop trying 😂 I think that one was the hardest for me to learn. You cannot reason with irrational and abusive people.
Divorce
Edit: someone being mentally ill doesn't excuse abuse. It sucks that the symptoms of your spouse's mental illness is abuse, but that's not your responsibility.
Divorce
@@bufficliff8978 have to agree with you. Having a mental illness doesn’t excuse abuse. Psychosis deserves in patient treatment and outside of psychosis a person that isn’t in treatment and preventing abuse as their top priority deserves an immediate divorce
I’m bipolar and just brokeup with my girlfriend for this reason. I had called her every bad name under the Sun when raged up and regret it but it made me realize that I was with her for the wrong reasons and we split. Relationships are already hard, mental illness being mixed in makes the success rate very low. However your partners apologizes are likely sincere; I have said many hurtful things I wish I could take back and sadly never can.
Physical abuse is a deal breaker. That's how you end up a murder victim.
"We want to get to a place where our lives are the best moments of the best dates we've ever had" - Jordan Peterson
5:50
It saddens me to realise my ex-wife is this girl that never got told she’s annoying and smacks people too hard :(
That’s called a Situationship in dealing with someone’s potential. Equals exhausting.
No, a situationship is when you're "just talking": flirting, texting, vibing, but not gf/bf and not "together."
You heard the question as asking if there's a potential for a relationship, but the question is about people who are already in relationships.
The question's meaning of potential is asking "do you love who they could be (their potential), or do you love who they are?" "Do you love the career they might have or the people they might meet or the life you could have with them (potential) or do you love them how things are now?"
But they should NOT be a project. A spouses job is not to fix you
I have never wanted to shout AMEN louder, sister. PREACH❤🔥
It is not your job to enlighten your spouse, but the spouse finds it. Best if you mirror to them, without any emotion and high affinity 😊😊❤
Jordan is talking about whether you can both courageously be yourselves. Chris is walking a thin line on the edge of narcissistic control talking about seeing something that isn’t that person and expecting them to become it. Just respect your partner and support them as they are, and if you can’t do that you are the problem. Accept it and do them a real favor and walk away so they can find someone who will respect them. And allow them to fully be themselves in peace.
The most important thing is if your partner is happiest with you. If not, let her go. Idk who needed to hear this but no matter what that's the outcome.
Lol what youguys said about that hidden soul you see is so true. Always when I felt I truly loved someone, it was me exactly seeing this. And it can be so deep sometimes it's hard even to find other explanations than the existence of a soul.
But yeah nowadays many people have reduced all this to something very transactional and rational. Like, what figures do you makie, or, does he/she look good on parties... Very saddening.
Love someone first you know. The rest is secondary to that.
My husband and i are usually in conflict daily about something. Not malicious conflict but bickering usually about something annoying i have done or something annoying he has done or i didn't hear him correctly or he made a rude comment. I always have considered that we have a happy marriage and have been together a very long time. Our youngest daughter feels very insecure about our " bickering" and scolds us for it. Now i know we are normal and actually are in a healthy relationship. At the end of the day i wouldn't care to spend time with anyone else but him and i think he feels the same. We have been through incredible hardship together and conflict and honesty is how we survived it.
It ends when either one or both parties can no longer stand the sight of each other.
But the fact that when women say they are leaving the relationships ... it often ends with the deaths of the women ... means that safety is the real issue to be addressed.
Between three and four women are killed each day in the U.S. by angry husbands or boyfriends who refuse to take "no" for an answer.
Let us not pretend that marriage is always filled with bliss ... when the facts are anything BUT.
you mentioned the reddit thread saying “do you love your partner now for who they are not their potential or what they might be” but then you talk about slowly chipping away at this uncarved block to build something perfect… which takes seeing potential and possibility… can someone go deeper on this?
Marriage is not easy, but it should change you for the better. We are not perfect
Peterson says something very important here about expulsion from paradise. It was Pride not Disobedience. Disobedience is downstream from Pride…