Overall shot looks pretty good. Once you find your anchor, you should be pretty solid. Lots of times there is a very real compromise that needs to be accepted to find the best scoring anchor for bb.
Love the video. In regards to your question about what to show, shooting or what you found. I like a little of the shooting, but I love you view on what is going on. I especially appreciate you talking about what you heard and what you have found. Things like that help me. Looking forward to more videos.
Hello, Jake, please do continue with this interesting series, even if it is hard or not so enjoyable for you. It's very interesting to hear an expert view of differences in loading phase, anchor and possible difficulties in alignment allready in this video. I apologize, I am not a barebow shooter. I am a longbow 3d competitor under WA rules. I'm from Europe. We have to grip Mediterranean or touch the arrow allways under the nock, and anchor on the same spot allways. So we anchor as high as we can, to make the gaps smaller. This brings up various problems: alignment, arrow and string going more to the right of the eye in some cases, due to individual anatomy, etc. Although some shoot instinctive in our class, they mostly can not be really competitive this way- allmost all top end competitors aim, one way, or another. The relatively easier part is shot trigger here, as observed: fletching touching the nose, or string touching either the nose, or even the brow (forehead). The harder part obviously is alignment (which is fundamental, I know), and getting the string and arrow in front of the eye- in many cases you can not do both with higher anchor because nose gets too much in the way or you end up so much in front of your face, that's impossible to align. And we have to remember, that as we anchor higher, the middle triangle in archer alignment (which goes from both shoulders to the nock of the arrow) becomes larger, which normally brings the whole alignment awry, which presents a problem in itself. Competitive Trad archers who understand these concepts, have dropped the poundage in recent years considerably, to be able to control the bows more in this setting. As shooting barebow is the closest thing to shooting traditional, I am very keen to see this reflections going forward. I'm sure it will be good help of some kind to many of us. As Olympic recurve shooting is the pinnacle of technique expertise it would be very interesting to know which parts of it can be applied to barebow/traditional shooting. My only wish and suggestion would be to include at least some reflections about trad shooting or higher anchor and alignment problems. As I'm keen student of Lee's books, I know that this is easier to ask then do in this format. Changing the anchor is central and fundamental part of archery form and alignment- but I ask you all the same. Then the much more numerous traditional and barebow community could be directed here to learn from someone who understands the technique intimately, and is not just some self acclaimed RUclips guru. Thank you for your free knowledge, and keep up the good work. Greetings!
Wow this is going places. At first I came for the NTS vids and tried to figure out how to adapt it to my bb style. And now you are doing the same. I could not have hoped for better. Keep up the excellent content Jake.
It's fun to watch you "figure it out", Jake. The struggle is real! lol I think every new (and many experienced) BBers can relate. Anchoring the index finger on the eye tooth is very popular and raises the anchor - shortening the crawl. Depending on head rotation, you may need tape. Your thoughts on interpreting KSL "expansion" to a bow without a clicker will be REALLY interesting. I am always asking coaches about this, but few have both solid recurve AND barebow chops. Check out The Barebow Project's Podcast #6 where champion BBers discuss what triggers release.
Jake, Ive been a Traditional Archer for over 40 years and recently switched to Barebow Recurve. I started at a Archery Australia Club and still carry the disipline and attention to detail the Coaches instilled in me back then. Over the years I have been very interested in Coach Lee's methods and applied some of what I could to my Form. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching your Form and Tuning Series to Date as it has helped me refine my Form and set my ILF Bow up. I'm really interested in your Barebow Journey and have been encouraged to here some of your thought and willingness to ask advice from more experienced Barebow Archers. Much of what you have said in this Video has confirmed what I have found since I started watching your Videos. Thanks again for sharing your skills and I look forward to watching you learn your new Disipline.
I’m glad you are doing this. I used to shoot barebow and I used your old videos on Shot cycles while shooting barebow. It really helped my consistency. I’m glad you are doing a version of it with barebow.
It is a great learning tool to see you walk through and talk through what you are doing. It gives me a foundation to sort through the same things myself. Look forward to more as you progress through the steps you are taking.
If you are looking for a cue or a trigger, some people use their fingernail as a clicker of sorts for a trigger. Some people once they get to aim put their fingernail on the edge of the riser, apply pressure on the edge of the riser with their fingernail until it slides off and then that becomes the trigger for the shot. I don't like that because it creates torque in my bow hand. You can also use a fingernail on your tab if it is a hard metal tab, apply pressure to the edge of it once you are aiming, until it slides off and then that can become a trigger. I can't make that one work either with accuracy. For myself, I put my arrow so that it eclipses the ten ring, watch the arrow tip until it stops floating, and then say okay to myself and that is my mental trigger to release. The mental trigger is more prone to target panic than a physical trigger, so I have to work on being mentally strong for competitions.
The first one you described (grip sear) works really well for me. I find that I have to keep my fingernails short. If my fingernail is long, I have to apply more pressure to get it to pop which creates tension in my bow hand as you said
Jake, love the information you’re sharing. I shoot barebow and have done so steady for the last five years. Starting with Lee’s target technique I evolved to an “instinctive” style and split with a tab over three under or a glove. My anchor to eye is way more natural with the split style than three under but that may be because I haven’t spent the time developing that style. I know that the anchor points are a huge part of the equation. Anyway, love the videos - keep them coming!
I started with barebow, and I aimed by putting the gold on top of the arrow tip almost like putting a dot on a letter i . It worked well on right size targets and right distances to both normal and field targets where the gold is small enough. It’s like shooting headshots with a rifle with iron sights by putting the front post under the target’s chin (at least that’s the way they taught us in the navy).
At our range, we are taught NTS barebow by our great Level IV coach. So, I have been invested in NTS and the Kisik Lee shot cycle from the start (I've been shooting one year now), and have been to a workshop with Kisik Lee (amazing). I use all of the shot cycle as a barebow archer. The only difference to me is placement where the barebow archer might anchor (or stringwalk).... as that can be personal/distance preference...and MAYBE, expansion. But expansion is a choice after transfer/holding no matter the bow discipline, clicker or not. NTS has sustained me (# of arrows and time shooting per day) and enabled me to relate to what I see/do in Olympic recurve or compound NTS form and shot sequence, to barebow. Thanks for doing this!
Great video Jake! It's nice to see you learning on camera. I think all of us barebow guys have been through the same things that you are working on and it will be interesting to see how it pans out. I've been all over my face trying to find that "sweet spot". What I ended up with was an anchor with my first finger at the corner of my mouth and the bone of my hand pressed into my cheekbone. It seems to work well, but if I don't line up correctly or don't hook deep enough it nearly tears my nose off! It does tend to keep me focused though! In the UK we are not allowed to string or face walk (NFAS barebow rules). One finger must be touching a nock. This makes the aiming interesting and in my opinion more of a challenge. I'm using a mixture of gap shooting and instinct to guess how far above or below the target I need to put the tip of the arrow depending on the distance. It's a constant "work in progress" because if you change anything the gaps change too.
Hi jake great videos keep them coming. As a barebow archer who's done freestyle in the past I know how difficult it is switching styles. My advice would be to try from the corner of the mouth for the shorter distances and use the freestyle for the longer distances. Although I shoot from the corner of the mouth at all distances. But I pull 48lbs. Good luck Jake.
I agree that a repeatable anchor is more important than having to crawl less far down the string. It is very possible to be able to tune your barebow so that the left right impacts are the same. If your anchor sucks, who cares how far down the string you have to crawl
putt the point of your arrow at low 9 in the gold, and after anchor keep a 2 count pulling like the need to come by the clicker and release at the 3 count that makes your shot uniform
Once you get your anchor and such figured out, you can play with your nock height and arrow weights to adjust the range of crawls for the game you are playing, indoor outdoor field 3D etc
"If the bowhand kicks to the left it's strong." THANK YOU! I've only shot recurve for a while now and I'm still finding my ways as to have a consistent shot cycle and bow arm placement. I've seen a ton of shooter videos and have wondered why my bow arm kick out to left on release and if that is bad form.
Good video Jake, I like hearing your thinking process as well as seeing the shooting. Lower anchor point equates to a longer point-on distance with lower draw weights, which is good for outdoor and field. A shelf attached to the top of the tab might be worth trying, to have a lower anchor point with good hard contact with bone higher on the cheek. Personally, I find I need to anchor quite far back on the face in order to get good alignment, and good alignment has been the driving force to finding my new anchor point
It's very interesting to see how an accomplished archer tackles the issues I've been struggling with for the past few years. I started with barebow and have no experience with freestyle but I've always believed that the biggest difference between the two is that little piece of spring steel (or carbon), the clicker.
Jake, you're an Olympic Athlete so without any doubt you're going to be awesome shooting barebow,.........if you work for it. I was taught to find my point on distance before crawling.
Anchor height is not really consistent. The consistent anchor you can achieve if you find bone-to-bone connection. Pointing finger knuckle to cheekone and thumb behind jaw. Like at 17:40. Not awful, but new. You will get used to it. Another thing. Your forearm and upperarm forms a V (horizontal). Push your fore arm above while pull your upperarm down (together with the shoulder) Like you want to open the V. (learned from Skip Trafford while ago :D ) This needed because you anchor much higher than in OL style. Plunger releases because of vibration. Tiller to 0 first.
Finding a reliable anchor point is one of the biggest challenges that barebow presented me with. My understanding is that it is different for different people depending largely on their facial anatomy
Utterly fascinating watching your efforts, and listening to you trying to work it out. I think you should try the tip of your top, or middle finger, touching you top canine tooth. I shoot 28#, and at twenty yards I'm looking at about an inch of crawl.
Coming from Olympic recurve, Ive never been able to make the typical barebow/hunting anchor work so I stick with under the chin. No set rules on the barebow anchor.
I know a lot of BB guys shoot a fixed crawl where they crawl to the same point on the string each time and essentially gap shoot for distances passed 18m. At 18 they "lollipop" the point of the arrow in the bottom of the gold while at full draw
6 o'clock hold. I don't want to cause myself to drop my bow arm to watch the arrow. I've learned too much from you about pushing towards the aim point on follow thru. Tks from down the road in Clermont
I'm probably late to the party here but when I shoot traditional and barebow, during transfer I form an air pocket between my tongue and the roof of my mouth, then during expansion I slowly apply pressure with my tongue until the pocket bursts, causing an audible sound and a rush of air to the back of my throat and that's my cue to release. It's not 100% consistent like a clicker but if you apply pressure and expand the same the timing is fairly consistent but just unpredictable enough to keep you from predicting the moment your shot will break and I see a slight improvement in grouping when I do it.
Experimenting with the anchor is good. You're obviously happier with a lower anchor, which is closer to what you're used to. It's down to preference. I noticed sometimes you are moving your head to towards the arrow, which will throw off your aiming point
I would install limb dampeners farther towards the limb tip - you can feel with your finger were the limb vibrate when you pluck the string , I would chose a point were I can dampen it easy with the finger, on the front side - on the back side I would try to go farther and use the damper also as a string-stop, because there is a lot of noise and wear when the string hits the limb backside , I think is more observable at low poundage or/and light arrows - just a thought .
Very good job! You need to fix your anchor point issues. You can use under the chin ancho if you have no problem with long crawls. The classical finger on the corner of the mouth is not solid enough to get any reasonable accuracy. A bone to bone connection is a must to ensure a consistent 'nock-to-eye position'. The top edge of the hand on the lower edge of the zygomatic bone is one of the easiest and surest anchor points. You will also need a psycho-trigger to activate the shot and avoid TP. JMHO
You mentioned a video on how to travel. I'm heading to the Arizona Cup next month from Minnesota. Are you planning on having that travel video out before the end of the month? It would be really useful. Thanks!
Hey Jake - good job. Your form is starting to look a lot like the way Michael Fisher shoots (check out the finals from the Lancaster Classic 2019 & 2020). The drawing to alignment and transfer to anchor certainly works well for him and to my mind he has an enviable repeatable form. I hesitate to mention it - because it is interesting to see how you overcome the lack of clicker - but Joel Turners Shot IQ program uses various methods to trigger your shot/mentally let you decide to let it go. I'm too much of an amateur myself to make use of his info yet, but it seems to work for many. He is featured this week on The Barebow Archery podcast if you are interested in hearing a bit about his approach. Keep up the good work, your videos and thought processes are really interesting to follow.
You could replace the auditory cue of your clicker with a grip or tab sear. Also a medium to low grip is definitely better for those longer crawls down the string.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery as far a grip sear you could just use one of the ledges of the riser or the side of the grip without modifications and still be legal
As far as aiming I used to lollipop (arrow tip to the bottom of the gold) for about a year. Now I aim with the tip in the center of gold. It's a little different for me, but I get better results aiming center mass. Sometimes I have a problem with focusing on the arrow tip and the target is blurry. Now I try to concentrate on the target so that its sharp and the tip is blurry. I've seen people anchor under their chin while string walking. Maybe that would help you, being that you already have that drilled in. It would be interesting to see if that works for you. I anchor with my index finger to my bottom canine (maybe sometimes to the corner of my lip) and the back knuckle of thumb hooked around my jaw bone. In video it was hard to see, but did you have the string also on your nose? I've heard a three point of contact (index finger, thumb and nose) is better, but I just can't get my nose into the game. I'd be tipping my head to be able to do that. I used to hit my nose with the string also, but my anchor used to be higher with my index finger on my upper canine. GO BAREBOW NATION!!!
Hi Jake, love your videos, I have set up a Barebow. Can I ask where I can purchase the black weights like the ones you have on your Barebow? Thanks in advance
Jake what is your BB counter weights (total on each) & brand? I have one 12oz weight on my 2.5lbs riser,bottom mount which tilts the bow near vertical. Is that the correct position for the weight & bow?🤔
Hey Jake great Video, a question that I always had for Olympic silver medalist : Do you feel 100% lucky when you think of what you won at the Olympic Games or is the silver medal always reminding you didn’t made the first place ? Because when I make the 2. place on a tournament on the one hand I am happy but on the other hand their is little bit of frustration when I see my medal. Of course local tournaments for normal persons like me is not comparable to what you have archived but do you know this irrational feeling ???
Is that you’re pulse coming through the Mic? 😂 please take my word for it. DO NOT USE A VISUAL CUE. That’s what will give you target panic. Cause the visual will happen and you brain will tell you to shoot when you are not ready. You do not want that demon! Transitioning from having a clicker in my Oly recurve. To NO clicker on my barebow has been more of a challenge than anything. Enjoyed this as much as your other vids. Great work man!
Nothing like having someone showing me how to shoot with a new method and them not showing where they landed on the target. it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
The bow hand release you refer to was bogus from the get-go. Since it occurs after the arrow is gone it cannot affect the outcome of the shot. What it can do is obliterate information that the bow reaction and followthough provide (by injecting how well the release is done into the formula). Using such a thing simply adds variation to the followthrough ... hardly an advantage. Various crawls give various string angles so anchor positions, as you mention, are problematic. The gold standard for a bow tuned, say, for unmarked yardage WA shoots is to have a zero crawl at 50 m and then all closer yardages available through crawls. This requires only a single anchor point. Shooting an old FITA Round Barebow required multiple anchors. As to when to shoot, I teach a trigger that most OR archers are unaware of as they use a clicker for that purpose. This is based upon a requirement of stillness at full draw. So, once you hit anchor, if you focus intently on your arrow point you will notice that the relative motion of the arrow point is usually fairly large. It takes one half second to a second and a half for that motion (equivalent to the motion in a sight aperture) to damp down. (You can observe the same phenomenon in sight apertures.) That reduction in the slight movements in the arrow point is your sign that you are still ... and ready to shoot, so it is the equivalent of the clicker clicking. The most accurate sight picture for Barebow I am aware of is with the upper curve of your arrow point touching tangentially the lower curve of a target ring. This is the finest aiming picture that can be used. Any ring will do but the smaller 9-ring offers the smallest curvature and the best contrast (gold-red). Obviously on a field target you have gold-black or white black contrast at the five ring. IN NTS drawing directly to anchor is a no-no and I am sure that is what you are accustomed to, but watching you shoot I don't see any advantage to not doing that when you are approaching a high anchor. In NTS, the draw ends with the string touching the chin (tells you when to stop that phase) followed by the rise to anchor. Your Barebow draw had no rise to it, so there is no reason to pause the draw before going to anchor (which requires a reduced activation of the drawing muscles followed by reactivation), so you might want to try drawing straight to anchor. (It also saves time and so saves energy.) As with so many things NTS, it is an elite Olympic Recurve shooting technique. I have hear that people want to apply it to everything, but it does not seem applicable. While I was at the OTC in the old days I was told that NTS (BEST then) was directly applicable to compound. That seemed hardly credible so I racked it up to enthusiasm, rather than a serious recommendation. But after thinking about it for a time, I did an analysis comparing NTS with elite compound technique and I found about a 40% overlap, meaning that for NTS, to be applied to compound, you needed a completely different technique. Quite a while later, Larry Wise and Linda Beck were commissioned to create such a compound technique for USA Archery. I think that when you have mastered Barebow, and with the work you have put in that shouldn't be too long, you will find that a minority of the points in your technique will align with the NTS. This shouldn't be surprising as starting with an elite technique for another discipline doesn't seem like a good starting point to develop a shooting technique. Love your posts and your energy!
@@markusnanderod5934 I think 'string walking' is probably easier to learn and execute, not for being more accurate. Considering shooting at 18 meters in barebow, gap shooting can be as effective as string walking.
Legality of stringwalking in competition varies with different governing bodies. World Archery allow it in barebow recurve class, other organisations don't. I don't think that there is much doubt that for most archers shooting over a variety of distances, stringwalking is a more accurate method. If you look at top level international World Archery field shoots, barebow archers will be stringwalking at distances from 5-50 metres, not purely gap shooting. Likewise for most archers in other international organisations that allow stringwalking in barebow recurve competitions.
I use my cheek bone and the nock to the right side of my nose as a anchor. For a draw check I use the cock feather hitting the point of my nose. You may have to adjust your fletching a bit to get the right draw. A easy way to get it in the ball park it to shoot bare shaft with a piece of tape wrapped around with a tag end to act as a cock feather easy to adjust the tape till it feels good. Then fletch just one arrow at that mark to verify. Great series. I think your in the same place most archers are at when they switch to bearbow because I remember thinking a lot of the same things when I started years ago.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I tend to gap shoot more then crawl because most shoots around me don't have baerbow class just traditional where you finger has to toch the nock . With that being said when I do crawl in shoots the arrow nock always goes to the same spot on the nose however the hand moves if that makes sense. Hard to explain in text.
Claire Xie story is quite inspiring, isnt she? (Is she so barebowgifted?, is there little copetition in barebow so far?) I think, Jake, that if you drop that shooy cycle stoff and just try to hit the target off hand you will do not worse then stringwalking up to 30 meters at least
I may have tied you for oddest - I MAY be the only bare bow shooter who does NOT shoot 3 under, string walk, crawl, etc. I just like the Mediterranean or "split-finger" feel of gripping the string. What & how I do it is not so important - I don't compete and shoot primarily in my back yard.
Do you use string blur or just gun barrel the arrow? When I am ready to shoot, I do not use a que, I put as much back into it and let the shot happen rather make it happen.
Granted I’m not an Olympic medalist, but telling people that they don’t need a sling doesn’t really seem like great coaching advice. Not to criticize my betters though. :)
NOw you are talking! Your arrow should be in the side of your eyes not in front of your eyes or front of your nose same as you do in the recurve you arrow or string is in the corner of your mouth .
I am shocked by how much bow aids such as clicker and sight screw up archer's ability to rely on built in "instinctive" machinery. Initially, I thought that for the archer of your level it would be fairly easy transition from oly to BB. But when I watched you shooting BB I suddenly realized that you are in entirely uncharted waters. That's quite a journey ahead of you.
Another demonstration elsewhere on RUclips supports your observation. I can't remember the name of it, but it's with Brady Ellison and a couple other top Olympic Recurve guys. They take off their sights, stabs, clickers, etc. to briefly go bare bow and they don't do well at all.
@@itsjim2875 I believe that the video you are referring too was purely an event for fun, and imposed an extra hurdle in that the archers in question had to shoot a certain number of arrows in set short amount of time. It was not a serious demonstration of the ability of excellent Olympic Recurve archers to adapt to barebow, it was a fun challenge with a short time limit.
I didn't ever say that it would be a challenge for experienced barebow archers, but for dedicated Olympic Recurve archers it adds to the lack of accuracy. Put a full Olympic Recurve bow in a pure Trad archers hands and see they do any better straight away with a time limit - quite unlikely, because an OR setup is very different to shoot. That video is too often misquoted and misinterpreted by some barebow or trad shooters as proof that an Olympic style archer cannot shoot barebow, which is both innacurate and sadly divisive.
Jake Kaminski that’s what I use , or try to anyway. Best barebow shooters in my State use this shot sequence. I had to figure out my best Anchor and how to trigger my release, but this method allowed me to finally shoot with the accuracy I wanted, even while hunting it is DEADLY
While I'm in Australia and don't have direct personal experience, my research shows that there are a number of NTS Level 4 & 3 coaches in the U.S. successfully applying and teaching KSL cycle to trad and barebow stringwalking archery!
@@JakeKaminskiArchery My coment has to do with the fact that stringwalking can use several anchors depending on the distance of the target. The KSL principle of bone alignment is based only on an anchoring under the chin. I think it may have some influence on your bone alignment, changing the anchor position.
Yeah idk wtf it’s doing. Not sure if that’s some feedback for whatever reason or my heart beat. Inside I’m going exclusively boom mic not sure what to do outside yet
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I heard the Audio-Technica AT8024 is a excellent mic for indoor and outdoor but it's relatively expensive. Maybe its worth a try. Greetings from Germany :)
Overall shot looks pretty good. Once you find your anchor, you should be pretty solid. Lots of times there is a very real compromise that needs to be accepted to find the best scoring anchor for bb.
Whenever I need an answer/reinforcement, I que up your JD3 project/PUSH A.... love that.
Love the video. In regards to your question about what to show, shooting or what you found. I like a little of the shooting, but I love you view on what is going on. I especially appreciate you talking about what you heard and what you have found. Things like that help me. Looking forward to more videos.
Hello, Jake,
please do continue with this interesting series, even if it is hard or not so enjoyable for you.
It's very interesting to hear an expert view of differences in loading phase, anchor and possible difficulties in alignment allready in this video.
I apologize, I am not a barebow shooter.
I am a longbow 3d competitor under WA rules. I'm from Europe.
We have to grip Mediterranean or touch the arrow allways under the nock, and anchor on the same spot allways.
So we anchor as high as we can, to make the gaps smaller. This brings up various problems: alignment, arrow and string going more to the right of the eye in some cases, due to individual anatomy, etc.
Although some shoot instinctive in our class, they mostly can not be really competitive this way- allmost all top end competitors aim, one way, or another.
The relatively easier part is shot trigger here, as observed: fletching touching the nose, or string touching either the nose, or even the brow (forehead).
The harder part obviously is alignment (which is fundamental, I know), and getting the string and arrow in front of the eye- in many cases you can not do both with higher anchor because nose gets too much in the way or you end up so much in front of your face, that's impossible to align.
And we have to remember, that as we anchor higher, the middle triangle in archer alignment (which goes from both shoulders to the nock of the arrow) becomes larger, which normally brings the whole alignment awry, which presents a problem in itself.
Competitive Trad archers who understand these concepts, have dropped the poundage in recent years considerably, to be able to control the bows more in this setting.
As shooting barebow is the closest thing to shooting traditional, I am very keen to see this reflections going forward. I'm sure it will be good help of some kind to many of us.
As Olympic recurve shooting is the pinnacle of technique expertise it would be very interesting to know which parts of it can be applied to barebow/traditional shooting.
My only wish and suggestion would be to include at least some reflections about trad shooting or higher anchor and alignment problems.
As I'm keen student of Lee's books, I know that this is easier to ask then do in this format.
Changing the anchor is central and fundamental part of archery form and alignment- but I ask you all the same.
Then the much more numerous traditional and barebow community could be directed here to learn from someone who understands the technique intimately, and is not just some self acclaimed RUclips guru.
Thank you for your free knowledge, and keep up the good work.
Greetings!
Wow this is going places. At first I came for the NTS vids and tried to figure out how to adapt it to my bb style. And now you are doing the same. I could not have hoped for better. Keep up the excellent content Jake.
Most BB'ers either aim by covering the gold with the arrow tip or with the arrow tip just below it ("lollipopping")
It's fun to watch you "figure it out", Jake. The struggle is real! lol I think every new (and many experienced) BBers can relate.
Anchoring the index finger on the eye tooth is very popular and raises the anchor - shortening the crawl. Depending on head rotation, you may need tape.
Your thoughts on interpreting KSL "expansion" to a bow without a clicker will be REALLY interesting. I am always asking coaches about this, but few have both solid recurve AND barebow chops.
Check out The Barebow Project's Podcast #6 where champion BBers discuss what triggers release.
I am a beginner BB archer and find this very interesting. Thanks from Sweden
Jake, Ive been a Traditional Archer for over 40 years and recently switched to Barebow Recurve. I started at a Archery Australia Club and still carry the disipline and attention to detail the Coaches instilled in me back then. Over the years I have been very interested in Coach Lee's methods and applied some of what I could to my Form. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching your Form and Tuning Series to Date as it has helped me refine my Form and set my ILF Bow up. I'm really interested in your Barebow Journey and have been encouraged to here some of your thought and willingness to ask advice from more experienced Barebow Archers. Much of what you have said in this Video has confirmed what I have found since I started watching your Videos. Thanks again for sharing your skills and I look forward to watching you learn your new Disipline.
I’m glad you are doing this. I used to shoot barebow and I used your old videos on Shot cycles while shooting barebow. It really helped my consistency. I’m glad you are doing a version of it with barebow.
Doing and talking is better than only talking. Great information. Keep it up.
It is a great learning tool to see you walk through and talk through what you are doing. It gives me a foundation to sort through the same things myself. Look forward to more as you progress through the steps you are taking.
If you are looking for a cue or a trigger, some people use their fingernail as a clicker of sorts for a trigger. Some people once they get to aim put their fingernail on the edge of the riser, apply pressure on the edge of the riser with their fingernail until it slides off and then that becomes the trigger for the shot. I don't like that because it creates torque in my bow hand. You can also use a fingernail on your tab if it is a hard metal tab, apply pressure to the edge of it once you are aiming, until it slides off and then that can become a trigger. I can't make that one work either with accuracy. For myself, I put my arrow so that it eclipses the ten ring, watch the arrow tip until it stops floating, and then say okay to myself and that is my mental trigger to release. The mental trigger is more prone to target panic than a physical trigger, so I have to work on being mentally strong for competitions.
The first one you described (grip sear) works really well for me. I find that I have to keep my fingernails short. If my fingernail is long, I have to apply more pressure to get it to pop which creates tension in my bow hand as you said
Jake, love the information you’re sharing. I shoot barebow and have done so steady for the last five years. Starting with Lee’s target technique I evolved to an “instinctive” style and split with a tab over three under or a glove. My anchor to eye is way more natural with the split style than three under but that may be because I haven’t spent the time developing that style. I know that the anchor points are a huge part of the equation. Anyway, love the videos - keep them coming!
I started with barebow, and I aimed by putting the gold on top of the arrow tip almost like putting a dot on a letter i . It worked well on right size targets and right distances to both normal and field targets where the gold is small enough. It’s like shooting headshots with a rifle with iron sights by putting the front post under the target’s chin (at least that’s the way they taught us in the navy).
At our range, we are taught NTS barebow by our great Level IV coach. So, I have been invested in NTS and the Kisik Lee shot cycle from the start (I've been shooting one year now), and have been to a workshop with Kisik Lee (amazing). I use all of the shot cycle as a barebow archer. The only difference to me is placement where the barebow archer might anchor (or stringwalk).... as that can be personal/distance preference...and MAYBE, expansion. But expansion is a choice after transfer/holding no matter the bow discipline, clicker or not. NTS has sustained me (# of arrows and time shooting per day) and enabled me to relate to what I see/do in Olympic recurve or compound NTS form and shot sequence, to barebow. Thanks for doing this!
Great video Jake! It's nice to see you learning on camera. I think all of us barebow guys have been through the same things that you are working on and it will be interesting to see how it pans out. I've been all over my face trying to find that "sweet spot". What I ended up with was an anchor with my first finger at the corner of my mouth and the bone of my hand pressed into my cheekbone. It seems to work well, but if I don't line up correctly or don't hook deep enough it nearly tears my nose off! It does tend to keep me focused though!
In the UK we are not allowed to string or face walk (NFAS barebow rules). One finger must be touching a nock. This makes the aiming interesting and in my opinion more of a challenge. I'm using a mixture of gap shooting and instinct to guess how far above or below the target I need to put the tip of the arrow depending on the distance. It's a constant "work in progress" because if you change anything the gaps change too.
Hi jake great videos keep them coming. As a barebow archer who's done freestyle in the past I know how difficult it is switching styles. My advice would be to try from the corner of the mouth for the shorter distances and use the freestyle for the longer distances. Although I shoot from the corner of the mouth at all distances. But I pull 48lbs. Good luck Jake.
I like this show and tell format.
Thank you, Jake! I am shooting Barebow until I get my Olympic Recurve. I've been waiting for this video! :)
I agree that a repeatable anchor is more important than having to crawl less far down the string. It is very possible to be able to tune your barebow so that the left right impacts are the same. If your anchor sucks, who cares how far down the string you have to crawl
putt the point of your arrow at low 9 in the gold, and after anchor keep a 2 count pulling like the need to come by the clicker and release at the 3 count that makes your shot uniform
Once you get your anchor and such figured out, you can play with your nock height and arrow weights to adjust the range of crawls for the game you are playing, indoor outdoor field 3D etc
"If the bowhand kicks to the left it's strong." THANK YOU! I've only shot recurve for a while now and I'm still finding my ways as to have a consistent shot cycle and bow arm placement. I've seen a ton of shooter videos and have wondered why my bow arm kick out to left on release and if that is bad form.
Good video Jake, I like hearing your thinking process as well as seeing the shooting.
Lower anchor point equates to a longer point-on distance with lower draw weights, which is good for outdoor and field. A shelf attached to the top of the tab might be worth trying, to have a lower anchor point with good hard contact with bone higher on the cheek. Personally, I find I need to anchor quite far back on the face in order to get good alignment, and good alignment has been the driving force to finding my new anchor point
Agree. I anchor fairly far back.
It's very interesting to see how an accomplished archer tackles the issues I've been struggling with for the past few years. I started with barebow and have no experience with freestyle but I've always believed that the biggest difference between the two is that little piece of spring steel (or carbon), the clicker.
For a repeatable anchor point I use index finger nail on the eye tooth and long part of the thumb under the cheek bone.
Jake, you're an Olympic Athlete so without any doubt you're going to be awesome shooting barebow,.........if you work for it.
I was taught to find my point on distance before crawling.
Anchor height is not really consistent. The consistent anchor you can achieve if you find bone-to-bone connection. Pointing finger knuckle to cheekone and thumb behind jaw. Like at 17:40. Not awful, but new. You will get used to it.
Another thing. Your forearm and upperarm forms a V (horizontal). Push your fore arm above while pull your upperarm down (together with the shoulder) Like you want to open the V. (learned from Skip Trafford while ago :D ) This needed because you anchor much higher than in OL style.
Plunger releases because of vibration. Tiller to 0 first.
Finding a reliable anchor point is one of the biggest challenges that barebow presented me with. My understanding is that it is different for different people depending largely on their facial anatomy
Utterly fascinating watching your efforts, and listening to you trying to work it out.
I think you should try the tip of your top, or middle finger, touching you top canine tooth.
I shoot 28#, and at twenty yards I'm looking at about an inch of crawl.
Coming from Olympic recurve, Ive never been able to make the typical barebow/hunting anchor work so I stick with under the chin. No set rules on the barebow anchor.
Me too. The pay off having solid anchor with good alignment far out ways being able to aim down the whole arrow length for me.
I know a lot of BB guys shoot a fixed crawl where they crawl to the same point on the string each time and essentially gap shoot for distances passed 18m. At 18 they "lollipop" the point of the arrow in the bottom of the gold while at full draw
I may be an odd ball but I like to have my crawl set so I can hold at the bottom of the red and impact in the 10 when I execute properly
6 o'clock hold. I don't want to cause myself to drop my bow arm to watch the arrow. I've learned too much from you about pushing towards the aim point on follow thru.
Tks from down the road in Clermont
I'm probably late to the party here but when I shoot traditional and barebow, during transfer I form an air pocket between my tongue and the roof of my mouth, then during expansion I slowly apply pressure with my tongue until the pocket bursts, causing an audible sound and a rush of air to the back of my throat and that's my cue to release. It's not 100% consistent like a clicker but if you apply pressure and expand the same the timing is fairly consistent but just unpredictable enough to keep you from predicting the moment your shot will break and I see a slight improvement in grouping when I do it.
Experimenting with the anchor is good. You're obviously happier with a lower anchor, which is closer to what you're used to. It's down to preference. I noticed sometimes you are moving your head to towards the arrow, which will throw off your aiming point
I would install limb dampeners farther towards the limb tip - you can feel with your finger were the limb vibrate when you pluck the string , I would chose a point were I can dampen it easy with the finger, on the front side - on the back side I would try to go farther and use the damper also as a string-stop, because there is a lot of noise and wear when the string hits the limb backside , I think is more observable at low poundage or/and light arrows - just a thought .
In my previous BB video I share my thoughts on placement of the limb savers. Thanks for the feedback though.
Very good job! You need to fix your anchor point issues. You can use under the chin ancho if you have no problem with long crawls. The classical finger on the corner of the mouth is not solid enough to get any reasonable accuracy. A bone to bone connection is a must to ensure a consistent 'nock-to-eye position'. The top edge of the hand on the lower edge of the zygomatic bone is one of the easiest and surest anchor points. You will also need a psycho-trigger to activate the shot and avoid TP. JMHO
Thanks! Next going from traditional to historical with instinctive shooting ;).
If you find the higher anchor for barebow a bit alien, you should give Asiatic thumb drawn bows a go lol 😉 you'd love it when you got used to it..
Whoop! Whoop! Go 28 lbs !! I can really relate to that !!
You mentioned a video on how to travel. I'm heading to the Arizona Cup next month from Minnesota. Are you planning on having that travel video out before the end of the month? It would be really useful. Thanks!
Yes, ill be doing some outdoor specific videos as well. Probably Monday on the case and flying hacks video...
Check out RMS Gear's new palm clicker for a psycho trigger. Not a draw length check/clicker, but still designed to go off with increasing tension.
Hey Jake - good job.
Your form is starting to look a lot like the way Michael Fisher shoots (check out the finals from the Lancaster Classic 2019 & 2020). The drawing to alignment and transfer to anchor certainly works well for him and to my mind he has an enviable repeatable form.
I hesitate to mention it - because it is interesting to see how you overcome the lack of clicker - but Joel Turners Shot IQ program uses various methods to trigger your shot/mentally let you decide to let it go. I'm too much of an amateur myself to make use of his info yet, but it seems to work for many. He is featured this week on The Barebow Archery podcast if you are interested in hearing a bit about his approach.
Keep up the good work, your videos and thought processes are really interesting to follow.
Could you make a video about exercises with the bow?
You could replace the auditory cue of your clicker with a grip or tab sear. Also a medium to low grip is definitely better for those longer crawls down the string.
I wish, but that is illegal as far as WA rules goes.
@@JakeKaminskiArchery as far a grip sear you could just use one of the ledges of the riser or the side of the grip without modifications and still be legal
Shooting without a clicker is very hard. Target panic sets in quickly. Creeping is fairly common as well, from what I observed at Lancaster.
As far as aiming I used to lollipop (arrow tip to the bottom of the gold) for about a year. Now I aim with the tip in the center of gold. It's a little different for me, but I get better results aiming center mass. Sometimes I have a problem with focusing on the arrow tip and the target is blurry. Now I try to concentrate on the target so that its sharp and the tip is blurry.
I've seen people anchor under their chin while string walking. Maybe that would help you, being that you already have that drilled in. It would be interesting to see if that works for you. I anchor with my index finger to my bottom canine (maybe sometimes to the corner of my lip) and the back knuckle of thumb hooked around my jaw bone.
In video it was hard to see, but did you have the string also on your nose? I've heard a three point of contact (index finger, thumb and nose) is better, but I just can't get my nose into the game. I'd be tipping my head to be able to do that. I used to hit my nose with the string also, but my anchor used to be higher with my index finger on my upper canine.
GO BAREBOW NATION!!!
Hi Jake, love your videos, I have set up a Barebow. Can I ask where I can purchase the black weights like the ones you have on your Barebow?
Thanks in advance
The high anchor is awkward as hell at first for sure bit it does work well for this style of archery
Jake what is your BB counter weights (total on each) & brand? I have one 12oz weight on my 2.5lbs riser,bottom mount which tilts the bow near vertical. Is that the correct position for the weight & bow?🤔
Hey Jake great Video, a question that I always had for Olympic silver medalist :
Do you feel 100% lucky when you think of what you won at the Olympic Games or is the silver medal always reminding you didn’t made the first place ?
Because when I make the 2. place on a tournament on the one hand I am happy but on the other hand their is little bit of frustration when I see my medal. Of course local tournaments for normal persons like me is not comparable to what you have archived but do you know this irrational feeling ???
Is that you’re pulse coming through the Mic? 😂 please take my word for it. DO NOT USE A VISUAL CUE. That’s what will give you target panic. Cause the visual will happen and you brain will tell you to shoot when you are not ready. You do not want that demon! Transitioning from having a clicker in my Oly recurve. To NO clicker on my barebow has been more of a challenge than anything. Enjoyed this as much as your other vids. Great work man!
Nothing like having someone showing me how to shoot with a new method and them not showing where they landed on the target. it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Results have nothing to do with capability of methods. Practice with said method and discipline is what gets results...
@@JakeKaminskiArchery So why not show the 'results' or why bother showing the shooting.
The bow hand release you refer to was bogus from the get-go. Since it occurs after the arrow is gone it cannot affect the outcome of the shot. What it can do is obliterate information that the bow reaction and followthough provide (by injecting how well the release is done into the formula). Using such a thing simply adds variation to the followthrough ... hardly an advantage.
Various crawls give various string angles so anchor positions, as you mention, are problematic. The gold standard for a bow tuned, say, for unmarked yardage WA shoots is to have a zero crawl at 50 m and then all closer yardages available through crawls. This requires only a single anchor point. Shooting an old FITA Round Barebow required multiple anchors.
As to when to shoot, I teach a trigger that most OR archers are unaware of as they use a clicker for that purpose. This is based upon a requirement of stillness at full draw. So, once you hit anchor, if you focus intently on your arrow point you will notice that the relative motion of the arrow point is usually fairly large. It takes one half second to a second and a half for that motion (equivalent to the motion in a sight aperture) to damp down. (You can observe the same phenomenon in sight apertures.) That reduction in the slight movements in the arrow point is your sign that you are still ... and ready to shoot, so it is the equivalent of the clicker clicking.
The most accurate sight picture for Barebow I am aware of is with the upper curve of your arrow point touching tangentially the lower curve of a target ring. This is the finest aiming picture that can be used. Any ring will do but the smaller 9-ring offers the smallest curvature and the best contrast (gold-red). Obviously on a field target you have gold-black or white black contrast at the five ring.
IN NTS drawing directly to anchor is a no-no and I am sure that is what you are accustomed to, but watching you shoot I don't see any advantage to not doing that when you are approaching a high anchor. In NTS, the draw ends with the string touching the chin (tells you when to stop that phase) followed by the rise to anchor. Your Barebow draw had no rise to it, so there is no reason to pause the draw before going to anchor (which requires a reduced activation of the drawing muscles followed by reactivation), so you might want to try drawing straight to anchor. (It also saves time and so saves energy.)
As with so many things NTS, it is an elite Olympic Recurve shooting technique. I have hear that people want to apply it to everything, but it does not seem applicable. While I was at the OTC in the old days I was told that NTS (BEST then) was directly applicable to compound. That seemed hardly credible so I racked it up to enthusiasm, rather than a serious recommendation. But after thinking about it for a time, I did an analysis comparing NTS with elite compound technique and I found about a 40% overlap, meaning that for NTS, to be applied to compound, you needed a completely different technique. Quite a while later, Larry Wise and Linda Beck were commissioned to create such a compound technique for USA Archery. I think that when you have mastered Barebow, and with the work you have put in that shouldn't be too long, you will find that a minority of the points in your technique will align with the NTS. This shouldn't be surprising as starting with an elite technique for another discipline doesn't seem like a good starting point to develop a shooting technique.
Love your posts and your energy!
Is that tft g riser ? Its sound great and i didn't hear vibration
I lollipop the gold with the point
Is there a benefit of using a clicker for training even though it is not used in competition?
I watch your videos to hear your lovely voice 🤓🤓🤓
Is "String walking" only allowed method for barebow competition or just preferred by archers? Can archers use "gap shooting" method on competition?
Yes they can use gapshooting, but stringwalking is probably more accurate
@@markusnanderod5934 I think 'string walking' is probably easier to learn and execute, not for being more accurate. Considering shooting at 18 meters in barebow, gap shooting can be as effective as string walking.
Legality of stringwalking in competition varies with different governing bodies. World Archery allow it in barebow recurve class, other organisations don't.
I don't think that there is much doubt that for most archers shooting over a variety of distances, stringwalking is a more accurate method. If you look at top level international World Archery field shoots, barebow archers will be stringwalking at distances from 5-50 metres, not purely gap shooting. Likewise for most archers in other international organisations that allow stringwalking in barebow recurve competitions.
So it would be alignment,, head position, anchor, aim, expansion ,,, go to completion?
Hello Jake, what tiller have you adjusted on this Barebow? Thank´s
Zero split
I use my cheek bone and the nock to the right side of my nose as a anchor. For a draw check I use the cock feather hitting the point of my nose. You may have to adjust your fletching a bit to get the right draw. A easy way to get it in the ball park it to shoot bare shaft with a piece of tape wrapped around with a tag end to act as a cock feather easy to adjust the tape till it feels good. Then fletch just one arrow at that mark to verify. Great series. I think your in the same place most archers are at when they switch to bearbow because I remember thinking a lot of the same things when I started years ago.
But when crawling your arrow won’t always be near your nose so what’s your tell for different distances?
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I tend to gap shoot more then crawl because most shoots around me don't have baerbow class just traditional where you finger has to toch the nock . With that being said when I do crawl in shoots the arrow nock always goes to the same spot on the nose however the hand moves if that makes sense. Hard to explain in text.
So yes you would kind of change your hand position.
Which riser is that? That setup looks sick. I’m trying to get into Barebow and I’m looking at different set ups
This is the Win&Win TFT riser.
Jake Kaminski Thank you!
Claire Xie story is quite inspiring, isnt she? (Is she so barebowgifted?, is there little copetition in barebow so far?) I think, Jake, that if you drop that shooy cycle stoff and just try to hit the target off hand you will do not worse then stringwalking up to 30 meters at least
Al Henderson said it best think “ Elbow Back”.
Nice tshirt, where you buy ?
Scroll up top (under video) and see "Buy Jake Kaminski merchandise" - it's available in his store.
Lollipop the gold
I most be the oddest shooter. I shoot olympic three under and BB by gap shooting...
I may have tied you for oddest - I MAY be the only bare bow shooter who does NOT shoot 3 under, string walk, crawl, etc. I just like the Mediterranean or "split-finger" feel of gripping the string. What & how I do it is not so important - I don't compete and shoot primarily in my back yard.
ItsJim Yea right. Very few people ask how the arrow got into the middle. But we could start up the odd archer’s club called The Paradox Archers...
Alignment trumps anchor any day. It is way too hard to fight target panic under competition stress if you are also fighting your bow
Do you use string blur or just gun barrel the arrow? When I am ready to shoot, I do not use a que, I put as much back into it and let the shot happen rather make it happen.
That's basically how I do it Doug. I concentrate on pulling through. I release when it feels right.
Looks good though
Granted I’m not an Olympic medalist, but telling people that they don’t need a sling doesn’t really seem like great coaching advice. Not to criticize my betters though. :)
Are you 4 feet tall?
4 foot 22”
@@JakeKaminskiArchery hahahah!lol. What's the bow length?
70” here.
Lovely clean loose
Check out Archery 101 shot cycle. It's like an 11 part video to go through everything from stance to follow through.
NOw you are talking! Your arrow should be in the side of your eyes not in front of your eyes or front of your nose same as you do in the recurve you arrow or string is in the corner of your mouth .
I am shocked by how much bow aids such as clicker and sight screw up archer's ability to rely on built in "instinctive" machinery. Initially, I thought that for the archer of your level it would be fairly easy transition from oly to BB. But when I watched you shooting BB I suddenly realized that you are in entirely uncharted waters. That's quite a journey ahead of you.
Another demonstration elsewhere on RUclips supports your observation. I can't remember the name of it, but it's with Brady Ellison and a couple other top Olympic Recurve guys. They take off their sights, stabs, clickers, etc. to briefly go bare bow and they don't do well at all.
@@itsjim2875 I believe that the video you are referring too was purely an event for fun, and imposed an extra hurdle in that the archers in question had to shoot a certain number of arrows in set short amount of time. It was not a serious demonstration of the ability of excellent Olympic Recurve archers to adapt to barebow, it was a fun challenge with a short time limit.
@@itsjim2875 I think that's this one:
Archery Challenge: 30 metres without sights and stabilisers! ruclips.net/video/1GH_XxU7EYs/видео.html
@@timh9246 For many competent trad archers that one would not even be a challenge.
I didn't ever say that it would be a challenge for experienced barebow archers, but for dedicated Olympic Recurve archers it adds to the lack of accuracy. Put a full Olympic Recurve bow in a pure Trad archers hands and see they do any better straight away with a time limit - quite unlikely, because an OR setup is very different to shoot. That video is too often misquoted and misinterpreted by some barebow or trad shooters as proof that an Olympic style archer cannot shoot barebow, which is both innacurate and sadly divisive.
Hi Jake. Maybe KSL cycle is not suitable for barebow...
Why not? Sure seems suitable to me no complaints at all.
Jake Kaminski that’s what I use , or try to anyway. Best barebow shooters in my State use this shot sequence. I had to figure out my best Anchor and how to trigger my release, but this method allowed me to finally shoot with the accuracy I wanted, even while hunting it is DEADLY
While I'm in Australia and don't have direct personal experience, my research shows that there are a number of NTS Level 4 & 3 coaches in the U.S. successfully applying and teaching KSL cycle to trad and barebow stringwalking archery!
@@JakeKaminskiArchery with your skill and experience, you will find the best anchor and bone alignment to get the best from KSL cycle. Keep going. :)
@@JakeKaminskiArchery My coment has to do with the fact that stringwalking can use several anchors depending on the distance of the target. The KSL principle of bone alignment is based only on an anchoring under the chin. I think it may have some influence on your bone alignment, changing the anchor position.
You have to do something about your mic. Oherwise its a great video.
Yeah idk wtf it’s doing. Not sure if that’s some feedback for whatever reason or my heart beat. Inside I’m going exclusively boom mic not sure what to do outside yet
@@JakeKaminskiArchery I heard the Audio-Technica AT8024 is a excellent mic for indoor and outdoor but it's relatively expensive. Maybe its worth a try. Greetings from Germany :)
Vinyl culture agreed, just not in the budget at the moment
@@JakeKaminskiArchery Tried adding some wind protection? Like reporters of old, an old sock or similar, to dampen the wind noises.