"You don't let go of the string. The trick is to try and no longer be holding the string." That kind of elegant subtlety is what makes me love listening to experts...in anything.
He is dead on right there. The analogy we use in our archery classes is: You carry a shopping bag in your hooked fingers - and simply drop it. You let loose.
A thing about Brave, Pixar came down to our local archery shop and had the owner and some other top archers go to the studio and talk about proper stance while shooting and they brought different bows to show the difference between how they worked. They had about 10 cameras that captured everything while shooting. Was pretty awesome. That’s why it deserves a 10/10.
I've seen other archery experts rate movies. "Brave" also got a 10/10 with them. The attention to detail in that movie was dead on. Even the attitude of a master archer was right.
Brave got everything right (animators, concept artists, historical research, environmental modeling) except for the direction and writing*. * Apparently the story had a lot of executive meddling and went through extensive rewrites, and then rewrites on top of rewrites, and then the whole concept was rebooted and rewritten again a few times, this time under a new director who replaced the old one, and it shows.
@@Vasharan That explains why it ended up as basically another sequal to Brother Bear story wise then. I love the Merida character and the setting but my god that story is a disapointment.
But doesn't brave take place in 10th century Scotland. Why would she be using a recurve bow? She is also using a Mediterranean draw which seems a bit unusual for Scotland at this time.
Thats simply a feature of animation. They didn't 'know' anything, they just animated everything clean and square and straight and mechanical. It would've actually been way harder to animate a realistic human archer.
@@jonathanblowers4720 As far as I know, there were recurve bows in all of Europe at that time. They were far more common in the eastern Europe and less common in the west, but even in Scotland they had them. Likewise, draw style most likely varied depending on preference and instructions.
The thing I love about Brave is their attention to detail. It's so minute that when they zoom in on her face for the final arrow, you see she has a scar/scratch at her ancor point. Which implies years of repetitive rubbing from the feathers of her arrows
At 8:47 with "Brave", you can actually see the fletching slightly scratch her cheek as the arrow leaves. I was surprised at the level of detail and thought they put into this one scene.
I think BRAVE is a splendid film and, even though I have the archery wherewithal of pine cone, its archery felt very authentic when I watched it. Glad to see a real archer give it high marks!
Every practiced archer's jaw dropped when they saw this scene. They really, really researched this and made a commitment not to "Hollywood" one little bit. The other scene, with the suiters taking their shots was equally well researched. The three made exactly the kind of mistakes real-world, inexperienced archers make.
My university has an indoor archery range quietly hidden away and very few people knows of its existence. In a glass enclosed display are several "split arrows". When someone successfully shot an arrow into the back of another, the arrows get displayed with a plaque with the name of the archer, date, and stats of the bow (draw weight, type, etc.). In all the years the range has existed (more than 100 years), there were only 8 split arrows on display.
I used to do Archery when I was a teenager, and splitting an arrow was called a 'Robin Hood'. It did happen quite frequently at our club, but then again we did have quite some pro archers- like olympic level, but compound bows aren't (or weren't at least) an olympic category.
Well hitting the end of another arrow isn't really too rare when you already have 15 in the target and you do it for hundreds of hours over time. Honestly, it's an annoyance, arrows aren't that cheap.
Grizzly Jim has for years been one of the friendliest and best informed members of the online archery community, it’s great to see him get some mainstream attention.
@@aliendoggy1 We'll that's what he shoots so that's where most of his experience lies. He is educated enough to know about other styles of shooting as well. I'm sure he's shot different styles enough to speak to them.
I love that this guy actually has appreciation for the fact that sometimes you need to sacrifice realism for the sake of filmmaking, and he can just let it go and enjoy the movie/show. In so many of these videos with an expert examining something, the expert just criticizes everything ruthlessly as a way to flex their knowledge, but this guy spends like 90% of the time complimenting the stuff they do right and only a small amount of time mentioning what they did wrong
I feel this guy was kinda harsh tho too. Lars Anderson was revolutionary towards archery and robin hood used his style directly consulting him and he gave it a 4 ??? And the hawkeye i get what he was saying but damn its like he didnt understand hes a superhero that never misses. But maybe im misunderstanding his critics.
@@TheGoldenCulture Probably because Lars Anderson's style is largely for trick shots with low poundage bows, which doesn't translate well for what's supposed to be a more grounded movie.
@@SamehSyedAjmal Lars Anderson was on the set of that movie and literally trained the actor how to shoot the bow that way, and what was filmed was him really putting it into practice, so it's actually even more grounded in reality than you realize, or the guy in the video above realized. Every one of his critiques of the style are problems that Lars addresses, so they are not valid criticisms at all lol. In this instance, the expert is only an expert in his own form of archery. He even admits he doesn't know how to shoot like that, so he literally has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to that style of archery, as it is completely outside of his training and expertise.
@@lazerhosen exactly what ive been trying to say. Also lars sources comes from old war books assuming it was right these techniques were used in war. And i think that qualifies it as grounded.
Hawkeye actually runs out of arrows in Avengers (2012)! There's a whole scene dedicated to it, and you can see him gathering arrows in the backgrounds of other shots later.
Yeah I feel like either he hasn't seen or doesn't remember this and the person showing him clips did a disservice by not including the clip of him running out.
@@harriettubman2717 you have a valid point, but it will depend on the utility of the specific arrow. Grappling hook is designed as a tool for mobility. Exploding arrows, well, if they exploded upon impact, I'm not sure which part of it you can recover. If the arrows are forged as a whole in vibraminium, I'll be somewhat convinced that they can be reused.
@@illvm Except that's plausible for later MCU movies, but not for The Avengers when Hawkeye just has access to toys the US military can provide, not Starktech. I guess technically they might have access to some vibranium for special reusable arrows -- Howard provided the Shield 50 years previously, after all. But it would be pretty rare still, with Wakanda working to keep it scarce. I'm a bit sorry this video was filmed midway through the Hawkeye series -- to my untrained eye the clock tower scene was the worst archery scene in the show, so I'm curious about GJ's opinions on the later scenes.
I think I remember Hawkeye (the actor, Jeremy Renner) actually DID go do some archery training himself for the role, but the filmmakers made him do all the silly trick shots instead because it just looked cooler to them apparently.
This video actually encouraged me to check on Renner as last I heard he may lose a leg from the accident he was in but he didn't! And he looks to be recovering well for what happened.
That's the thing sometimes with these expert vids they forget a crucial part when they are judging. In the movie they are judging usually the person is the #1 genius in that field in that universe. So complaining about a no look shot because it usually requires a mirror doesn't mean matter all that much.
@@drake7993 He’s also in the middle of a city with a lot of very reflective windows, so he easily (within the logic of the film) COULD be using a window or reflective building as a mirror.
The thing is this guy says certain things are unrealistic but then later goes on to admit that he has seen Lars Andersen (who does those things), so he knows full well that actually it absolutely is realistic. A bit disingenuous really.
disagree. I don't mind his educating us once he's satisfied the real question in our mind, "Can you really make that shoot?" No. OK. Now tell me everything else
@@o_LL_o idk, that’s definitely not the real question in my mind. I wonder about the stance and the physics just as much as the possibility of the shot.
It is kind of ironic. That the cartoon that is not at all trying to be realistic is more realistic than the super hero movie that fills its' scripts with science mobo jumbo nonsense to be "realistic" at a surface level. Or in other words the cartoon doesn't try but does better than the one that tries really hard.
@@SirNarax so interestingly I think it’s the other way around. The Cartoon people go out of their way to mimic reality so hard that they do it better than live action
@@mikeaninger7388 Don't take it too far. Brave is about a mother who gets cursed by a witch and turns into a bear. It is hardly trying to mimic reality, just trying to mimic how people actually move.
I agree.. but its realistic for alot of trick shots and crazy on the go high speed shots with pinpoint accuracy and literally no time to line up shots. There are videos of people doing it here on youtube a simple search will lead you right to some of the best unknown archers you've ever seen IRL.
I'd imagine it's easier. Animating posture is exactly what you make it. Having real actors do it would be more difficult. Like with the katniss critique. Her body didn't know what to do when she wasn't on flat ground. In animation you can make the form look good even if it would lead to an angle that would be uncomfortable to a real actor
I love how he mentioned humans are capable of being able to react to arrows. Most of the time in movies where people are being shot, they have NO idea an arrow is flying towards them despite looking at the Archer. I'd say, most of the time unless you're 100% oblivious to the Archer, you're gonna see a small dark brown stick flying at you. (Now whether or not you're able to avoid it is one thing.) but most of the time you'll see it, and have a moment to react.
Modern compound bows shoot around 300 feet per second, average human reaction time is around .25 of a second. Lets say you are 50 yards away from archer (long shot for hunting) it will take .04 seconds for sound of the bow to get to you, plus your reaction time of .25 seconds gives you .30 seconds. You are left with .20 seconds to get out of the way of the arrow, but if you are within 30 yards (normal hunting range) you would get hit before reacting to it.
Something that was complimented about archery in the Avengers was that Hawkeye did run out of arrows; he doesn't have a limitless supply. There are shots where you see him walking around the battlefield, looking for arrows, and examining them to see if they can be used again .
@@cheyenneroberts4785 Yep, he pulled out of target he had shot it into and had it switched to grapple arrow and used it to escape into the building to get away from the fight for moment as he no longer had arrows to use
"Brave" represents what all movie crews should do - learn to represent some sort of ideas in the movies. This scene is absolutely phenomenal. I have like 22 maybe 23 years of experience in archery, also as a bow and arrowmaker which in time evolved to being a blacksmith. Anyway making a "Robin Hood shot" with wooden arrows is possible but to split the wooden shaft like in "Brave" there have to be some certain conditions. Wooden arrows can be made three ways - 1. by splitting a log into finer and finer shafts and then turning them round or conical and then proceed with assembling an arrow; 2. cutting young shoots, season them in tight bundles and then making them into arrows with all the steps nescesery 3. make shafts from square wood pieces cut to dimensions (like f.e. 1/2 x 1/2 inch) by turning them through the dowel maker (which is totally modern way) Number 1 and 2 are historically correct way of making an arrow and due to even wood grain it is actually possible to split an arrow with another arrow. Especially with no. 2 method as it behaves like a bamboo (which is another case in sucessfull splitting arrow) due to round grain crossection as it's basically an arrow made out of a young branch. Oh, and the eastern style bamboo shelf for short arrows is called tong-ah and it roots in Korean archery. Yes, it is real.
I used to use bamboo arrows when I practised Chinese archery, I remember a couple of time when somenoe broke accidentally one arrow with another. Archery is a facinating world, thanks for sharing your knowlage, it's very interesting.
I used to shoot with a takedown bow and some recycled old wood arrows a few years ago. Managed to get a partial "Robin Hood split" myself. They always glanced off with the natural grain pattern and never got past 4 or 6 inches. So like many things it's possible but never to the extent shown in fantasy lol.
Are these Tong Ahs generally also loose and go with the hand of the archer like shown in the movie or are they more often like Jim thought fixed to the bow and stay on there?
@@dragonsword7370 that's more what I was thinking. Yes, it's possible, but at some point you need to get lucky because the conditions required for it to split all the way down aren't only dependant on archer skill.
I must admit, I'm kinda disappointed they didn't give this guy any scenes from Arrow to comment on. That would have been really interesting because I've read that Stephen Amell put a LOT of work into his role on that show, including doing as much of his action/stunt work as possible, so I'd have loved to hear comments on how he did as an archer there
You're joking. 90% of combat scenes in arrow are guys with assault rifles acting like absolute idiots and just missing for no reason so they don't gun him down.
Unfortunately not quite. I got skeptical when he reviewed Robin Hood and only confirmed by his review on War of the Arrows. He's unfamiliar with eastern styles of archery. Doesn't know what an overdraw device is (tong ah as seen in War of the Arrows). Probably won't know what hatra/khatra is among other techniques. Also, it's one thing to attempt perfect accuracy in competitions and such. It's another thing in the battlefield. You're not looking to get perfect accuracy in the battlefield; archers are going for maximum output to rain down upon their enemies. So both western and eastern cultures had their forms of speed archery using longbows or reflex bows. Injuring soldiers is far more easier to do than to kill (armor unlike in movies does its job protecting the user from arrows therefore lethal hits from arrows are incredibly difficult to do even with bodkin points) I'm not saying he's a bad reviewer. From a western style traditional archer, he's great. But he does lack some information regarding eastern style of archery.
@@mintyfresh4855 an armor expert loved the movie scene where the arrows lodged in the knights armor but didn't actually hurt him any. because thats what the armor was actualy designed to do, to actually kill the fully armored knight with an arrow was next to impossible. All the other expert videos I've watched claim movies always get the use of bows wrong, they have archers being used like guns were later on, every archer waiting until every other archer is ready than all firing at once, which would mean the faster archer is going to be warn out by the time the slower ones are ready. That not how it actually worked. When they commanded the archers to attack each one would lose an arrorw when ready, reload and repeat. And they were fast. Much faster than loading early guns, which were not very accurate which is why the did fire all the muskets together, it was only way to actually hit somebody.
As an archery competition shooter, a USArchery coach and an archery range owner, I give Jim's ratings a 10/10. 100% spot on reviews from the movies to the little comments about your archery knowledge!
@@cfly87 As a half asleep crab, i give your rating of their rating of the OP's rating of Jim's rating an unadulterated 10/10. also (unrelated), the punniness of USArchery is just... delightful.
The last movie was a Korean archer using a Tong-ha. At the time, inventions such as the Tong-ha were relatively unknown to foreign enemies, and therefore considering that Korea possessed very skilled archers and the benefits of a short arrow (Less weight, enemies can't reuse), it was said to be a national secret against invaders. Correction: Tong-ah
Korean call it tong ah, a piece of bamboo that can use it to shot short arrow. Turkish call it majra,persian call it navak,and roman byzantine call it solenarion. Both are the same device that shot short arrow or crossbow bolt. Which is briliant idea at the time,i discovered this from book call saracen archery.
@@muizismail4844 I've never seen this before brother. If I'm not mistaken majra means canal and navak means tunnel(Arabic). Do you know what time period this might have been used?
I kept thinking of the scene in the original "In-Laws"; Falk has told Arkin that when he's running he has to "serpentine." So the bad guys are shooting at Arkin, he gets about halfway to Falk who yells "serpentine! serpentine!" so Arkin runs back to his starting point and then back to Falk, serpentining all the way. But yeah, my wife and I were both saying "zig-zag, boy!" as he ran to his death.
I mean… he’s a kid. A kid who’s been held by a crazy psychopath torturing everyone. I’d be surprised if he thought of it personally. The show aged everyone up, so I don’t know exactly how old he was meant to be. In the books he was like 6.
@@AverageAlien Why should he talk about that when the freaking video he is responding to is about the scene he IS actually commenting on. You need to let go of your hate a bit and relax.
As a traditional archer and bowyer, it's so relieving to finally see and listen to an archer expert that actually knows what they're talking about! Thank you Griz! Can't tell you how many times I've stopped a video because the expert says someone's "shooting off the wrong side of the bow."
How do you get involved in archery as an adult. The only time I ever shot an arrow was when I did archery in summer camp as a kid. I think I was 10. I think I was ok at it actually
@@SE-gs6gd I'd recommend finding a local club. There are different kinds too. Traditional archery, Olympic archery, hunting, etc. Talk to some people before you buy anything. The last thing you want to do is spend a lot of money on something you end up not liking. Making contacts and asking if there's different bows you can try out is very helpful. Even if you figure out what you want and there's no club that matches it, doesn't hurt to know the people there. I'm a traditional archer, I shoot only bows I've made that are primitive. I don't really hunt anymore and most of my shooting is stump shooting. Yet I have friends who hunt with compounds and friends who are big into Olympic recurve.
@@SE-gs6gd I started as an adult! Really how I started was watching a lot of RUclips videos of respected guys like this and reading some stuff off reddit. Once I felt somewhat confident and thought I could have a decent conversation with an expert I went to a local club and they helped me the rest of the way.
"try no longer to be holding the string" is really what we do in traditional Japanese archery (kyudo), so I was fascinated to hear that. We don't use bare fingers for pulling the string, but a deerskin glove that has a hard notch in it, and of course the arrow goes to the right side of the bow. The bow is very simple, and usually made of bamboo; there is no shelf, just the top of the basal part of the left thumb for the arrow. The bow is held with the bare left hand and only three fingers; the index finger is free at the top. When the arrow is released the body is expanded and the bow twists within the left hand so that the string hits the back of the forearm. Difficult to describe but I am sure if anyone is interested they can find a youtube demonstration.
"try no longer to be holding the string" is also alfa and Omega of Olympic archery... even with compound when you have realese in your hand you kinda try to let it shoot itself without you.... even when you sniper you dont "pull" the trigger but you keep tension on the trigger... all the same...
There's a video of a Japanese archery competition and the winner was this girl whose name I'm not going to try and remember. The movement from nock, draw and release was poetry in motion
I should have mentioned a few more things. First is that hitting the target is not the point of kyudo, and if the archer thinks about the target the arrow will never meet it. Second is that the bow is not held tightly, one has to think of holding an egg, and the notch of the hand between the forefinger and thumb is used to push the bow rather than hold it. There should be no grip tension. This is how the bow is able to twist in the hand and the string meet the forearm after release, because there is no actual grip on the bow. The binding of the bow is made of leather and wood ash is used to make it less slippery, and yet more slippery (this I cannot explain without actually showing, sorry). Third, the expansion of the body to pull the arrow into the release position. It is a bit like hugging a tree and is very difficult and non-intuitive. Fourth, the release of the arrow is the absolute most difficult part of kyudo. The notch in the glove that holds the string is curved, so as the body expands the glove actually twists a little until there is not enough notch to hold the string, and it releases. You will notice that when release occurs, the whole body expands and the arms come outwards so that the archer's arms are horizontal and the chest expanded, so the tension in the body is also released. The notch is thus paramount to how release occurs, and it is incredibly rude therefore to look at the notch of another archer's glove. Lastly, there is also long distance kyudo, and in a similar way to the western archery explained in the video, the arm is not raised; only after the arrow position is confirmed then the archer moves the whole upper body at the waist, so that the basic technique remains the same. Best wishes from Japan !
@@ET-cj8jo Wow thank you for commenting all of that. That was very beautifully explained. I’ve only been into archery the last few months but I love it so much. I’m going to try it your way today when I get home. I’m pretty excited
The actor who played Hawkeye, Jeremy Renner, actually learned how to shoot properly with an Olympic archer before he played him. But when he got there they said that he needed to shoot the theatric movie way to look more showy.
Sadly I can see that being true. They were already getting “showy cash cow” with the MCU. Which is really sad. Most of the actors were really invested in their roles and wanted to add depth and research into it
Well Hawkeye is the best Archer in comics so obviously for a film like Avengers they need to film something a real archer can't do Of course looks great on camera but in the real world it's nearly impossible do the things he do
As a hunter he’s ABSOLUTELY right on the hunger games scene, if you spot a deer but don’t have a shot you want to wait for it to move on it’s own or if possible very slowly and quietly move to a better vantage point, deer will bolt if they smell something abnormal, throwing rocks is just going to make it run away
She did exactly what you proposed before the scene shown. As the deer smelled her she changed position. And it was not a very loud sound which could have happened naturally in this place. And as he shouts it bolts away.
@@reinhard8053 too bad we didn’t see the scene prior that would have added excellent context but it’s not only the noise but the context of the noise that makes deer jump (or not) a falling rock which is more or less sudden is going to put the deer on high alert as it would scream “predator” (or at least the possibility of one) this is why moving during hunting is such a pain because deer run off at the sound of crunching leaves or broken twigs. Cinematically it was a great shot especially since the goal was not to make a realistic hunting scene but when you know what you’re looking at it’s hard to ignore the mistakes in the filming process
@@reinhard8053 I've heard of some hunters that will try the rock thing in very, very specific scenarios (usually when they are above a bedded deer and something is blocking there view of the deer, toss a rock down towards the deer and hope it gets him to stand up so you can shoot) but as someone who has quite extensive experience bow hunting for mule deer tossing rocks around or making any kind of noise at all is something I would avoid at all costs. More than likely, if you throw a rock towards a deer he is gonna bolt and you'll probably never see him again. The best quality a bow hunter can have is patience and tossing rocks at deer is the epitome of impatient hunting. If killing a deer is going to be the only way you get to eat for a few days I promise you won't be throwing rocks around, you'll be quietly and patiently waiting for a better shot opportunity.
Orlando Bloom in his role as Legolas trained for months and there's a few videos of his excellent shooting prowess on youtube. He could shoot absurdly well and very quickly, and the bow he used in the movie was not a prop. His stancing was his own personal style, and proved exceptionally accurate. So despite him not using "proper form" according to Jim, I disagree strongly about his rating as a fellow archer who had been shooting for 12-15 years with a similar bow to the one used by the character in question. Each person has their own form and positioning. Not to mention that during that scene Legolas had been shooting arrows continuously for several hours as well as fighting with his blades, and as such must have been significantly tired. As such, he would likely attempt to alleviate this fatigue and maximize his chance of hitting at such a long range by doing a draw that requires less effort to hold back (with his arm slightly farther back and up, to use his shoulder and upper arm to brace the shot and aim with less energy). The fact that Wonder Woman's scenes got a higher rating is almost laughable. lol
And not to mention... "We're going to see the Elves!" They are Elves and its been argued over and over again about their archery prowess and that they are strong, have better eyesight and reaction times compared to humans.
part of it is the angle of the camera and how many times they tried. if they shoot 200 times this scene. you can bet the editors will take the best looking shoot and not the most accurate shot
Regarding the Hawkeye scene in Avengers, two things. I had never noticed before but he's actually looking into a mirrrored glass skyscraper across the street when he takes the blind shot. The audience can't see it, but he can actually see the reflection of his target there. Also, Hawkeye is a magical superhero who never misses at anything, so Magic. On the Legolas scene at Helm's Deep, Legolas consistently fires Bodkin tips which is the right choice for piercing armor. It looks like he's firing copper tips though which is a bit weird, but it's maybe some fantasy metal instead.
The whole thing about Hawkeye is that he doesn't have magic. He is just a highly skilled assassin like Black widow. But yeah he does use some technologically enhanced trick arrows.
For Hawkeye's backwards over-the-shoulder shot, I had always assumed he was tracking the target's reflection in the glass of a skyscraper in front of him. And they did show him picking up spent arrows out of bodies earlier in the scene.
I think the goal of that clip was to show he was so good he didn't even need to look at a target to hit it(we could argue that he heard the target and could pinpoint exactly where it was). It's usually the most simple explanation being the correct one. You see it in movies all the time, exaggerating things because it just *looks* cool on the screen.
@@MsKeylas Or, if you go by this one scene from the comics, the dude is always practicing almost nonstop. He was explaining to Spiderman that he can't ever stop because, unlike all the other Avengers with superpowers and abilities, he's just a guy who is very accurate with a bow and arrow. In his own (paraphrased) words, if he misses he becomes just another guy who can shoot arrows. He NEEDS to practice so that he NEVER misses.
@Felicidad Greene 12:19 isn’t that what they showed? Inverse shooing, aka Mediterranean draw? Shadeversity has an extremely detailed video on it where he shows some other archery content creators using very high poundage war bows (130lbs) and they easily are able to pull the arrow back all the way, problem. Is with the Mediterranean draw you sacrifice a little bit of accuracy but during war that’s acceptable but it isn’t anymore for competition shooting
@Salty Ark Shadiversity talks about experimenting with shooting on the draw side (right side for right handers) of the bow for the Mediterranean style of draw, which is typically shot on the non-draw side. This video is talking about shooting on the draw side for eastern styles of archery (eg. different thumb draws). Shooting on the draw side of the bow is normal for thumb draw but is not normal for Mediterranean draw. So what us described in this video is different than what Shad was trying to do.
@@saltyark7564 The Mediterranean draw is referring to the finger position on the draw arm, not the side of the bow the arrow is shot from. In Western archery, Mediterranean draw (one finger above the arrow and two below) is conventionally taught, though some people (myself included) prefer three under. But if you're going to shoot with the arrow on the right side of the bow as in Asiatic archery, you should be using a thumb draw. The reason Asian traditions use the right side is because it's faster and more stable on horseback
I also think that Hawkeye may have seen the Chitauri Chariot from far away ( "I see better from a distance."), did some mental calculations based on the speed of the target, and figured out how long it would take for the target to come into range in order to make accurate shot. In other words, by collecting data ( flight patterns, approximate speed, etc.), Hawkeye could easily make a highly educated guess as to where the Chitauri where going to be when he made his shot.
@@jonathangreenlees4772 thats exactly what i thought he either saw it before or just sideaways and calculate the travel , something ridiculoussly hard but not impossible although about the shooting form im not sure
@@roopskee17 Well, at some point one has to assume that super heroes do have super powers. For example, I didn't understand all the explanations, but the Amazon are super-humanly strong. Even a “normal” one, m who isn’t a demi-god like Diana, can easily catch a falling pole that would crush a baseline human. I assume that this this would totally influence how they build and use bows.
@@peterbruells28 the funny thing was the expert is comparing to real life, so amazons being fictitious literally falls outside of the scope in which this video is operating.
With Hawkeye, the MCU doesn't really talk about his abilities, but he has exceptional eyesight hence his name and he may have been looking at a reflection in one of the glass skyscrapers when he made the "blind" shot.
This is from the Marvel Fandom Web site, About the Comics (Earth 616) Version Master Archer: Barton has trained himself to become a master archer specializing in the use of regular bows, longbows, compound bows, and crossbows with near-perfect accuracy. He is capable of firing multiple arrows at a single target in a few seconds, hitting multiple targets in a few quick strokes, and directly hit small targets in the greatest of distances. Barton has even been known to hit an apple in the center of it. He practices a minimum of two hours per day to keep his skills honed.[22][8] Peak Human Sight: Barton possesses extraordinary eyesight.[8] His eyes are more acute than normal humans.[105][106] His flawless sight allows him to perfectly aim his targets without even looking.[107] Peak Human Condition: Clint's body functions at the peak levels of an athlete, with exceptional strength, endurance, speed, and stamina.[22] Peak Human Strength: Clint's physical strength are in peak human levels.[31] He demonstrated the strength to pull his 250 lb. bow with ease.[31] While This Is What they have on the MCU (Earth 199999) Abilities Extreme Targeting: He possesses an intuitive aptitude for targeting that is reflected highly in his ability to hit distant targets, and is also useful in identifying and tracking one target among many. Marksmanship: Clinton Barton is a skilled marksman with an exceptional ability in archery. His aim is such that he is able to send an arrow into a moving targets with pin point accuracy. He is versatile with the kinds of missile weapons he employs, and possesses an exceptional accuracy with thrown darts. He has also stated that he scored eighteen holes-in-one while playing golf.
I don't buy that he saw it in a mirror like effect. He "heard" it and could pinpoint exactly where it was. It was made to just look cool on the screen.
Still not realistic but i get your point. Super Hero movies aren't realistic. You won't get Flash speed by smelling some chemicals, of get the strength of a spider from a bite from a radioactive spider.
0:28 Scene from "Game of Thrones" S6E9 (2016) 9/10 2:20 Scene from "Rambo III" (1988) 8/10 4:15 Scene from "Hawkeye" S1E1 (2021) 5/10 5:50 Scene from "Wonder Woman" (2017) 5/10 7:44 Scene from "Brave" (2012) 10/10 9:51 Scene from "The Avengers" (2012) 4/10 11:34 Scene from "Robin Hood" (2018) 4/10 14:23 Scene from "The Hunger Games" (2012) 7/10 17:26 Scene from "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" (2002) 4/10 18:18 Scene from "War of the Arrows" (2011) 9/10
The thing with Katniss and The Hunger Games shooting style is that she learned from her father, and likely adopted whatever form he used. We can assume that it comes down from another archer, and that's how they have this form that isn't ideal for the situation, but they're doing what they know. The only other people we see knowing archery in the series are Career Tributes, who would have trained in an academy style, again probably closer to Olympic style than a hunting scenario. Let's face it, if the events that preceeded the series happened and someone who has sporting form and has never hunted is out in the woods with their bow, they're going to shoot as trained. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't.
@@hippo4262I’m confused by this comment but forgetting about Gale in what way? He doesn’t use a bow, Katniss taught him a bit but he’s not that good at it. His hunting technique is traps and snares, unless I’m very confused with what you’re referring to
Hawkeye's whole shtick is that he's has inhuman ability to be able to either calculate or something for shots that NEVER miss. So it does make sense he's able to do what he does, with the context of comic canon.
Something he doesn't point out but is a super good detail from the animators at pixar in the Brave shot. You can see merida's grip as she starts the shot is all held in the web of her hand, small detail but shows the footwork they did in studying and getting reference for the shot, it's something alot of the live action shots even miss.
Interesting that there are no scenes from arguably the longest running show about an archer in recent memory, Arrow on the CW. While like Hawkeye it may tend towards fantasy more, it also had more characters that were archers than any similar TV show.
@@feiasef8319 they actually wouldn't have said anything. having the archers wait with drawn arrows would just tire them out, and launching arrows in volleys wasn't very strategic. the whole firing in volleys thing was actually based on musket volleys. archers would just be trusted to shoot when they knew they could hit the target, or something to that effect.
In Hawkeye's defense on the no look shot: You mentioned a trick shot in the mirror. Hawkeye is standing on the top of a building in New York. His superpower is supposedly superhuman eyesight, reflexes, and spatial awareness. I think it's totally plausible he used the window of a building as the mirror to pull off that shot. I haven't rewatched that scene to see if there is an off camera building, but if there is, I would reason that's how he did it.
I’m an archer and no, the mirror would have to be lined up in a very specific way like the mirror, you and the target would have to be in a straight line, I don’t know how to explain my English is not good, but it is not realistic
@@luiscontreras767 It's a superhero movie. When did they ever let realism limit their heroes? That scene has one single reason to exists and it's to cement just how superhuman Clint's spatial awareness is. He's seen the target and extrapolated it's trajectory and to place the arrow where the target will be he doesn't even have to see it. It's as unreal as just about everything else in that movie, but given the setting it did it's job. It's a bit like what is often called instinctive shooting which you can learn, but will never be as accurate as using regular sight systems. It does however make for some great scenes in movies. Remember all those cowboy movies where the revolver men will draw and shoot from the hip and always hit just what they are aiming for, being it a coin, a candle, a gun or the heart of the bad guy? While not totally impossible for a single shot the show of repeatable perfect accuracy is so bogus.
@@luiscontreras767 So, you claim to have the super senses and reflexes of Hawkeye? That'd be a big claim. There could have been multiple buildings, or one at just the right angle, etc. All I'm saying is it is plausible.
I thought a nice little touch in "Brave" is when she took that last shot, as she releases the arrow the fletch puts a little scrape on her cheek as the arrow leaves the string. I thought that was great attention to a minor detail, added some realism to the character.
It makes me so incredibly happy that my childhood favorite movie got a 10 out of 10! Pixar always does it’s research, from historical dress to hair physics!
This was one of the better episodes of this. Guy was really knowledgeable and did a great job adding tid-bits of info not just "this was good, this was bad". Have this guy again.
I love that all the war and battle experts (generalized) have given the GoT long-range archery scene a very low score, where the archer expert is like, "Naw, seems legit, also his bow is suited to the task." Put 'em in a room together, I wanna see 'em fight it out. :D
Thats the difference. He uses bows and practise with them and know there are different types and styles that offer different effects and stuff. The battle experts etc for the most part are guys who only read about those things in documents and believe what ever is writen to be the hard truth and dont give much credit for inovation.But hey GoT battles were a mess all around , not a single one had actual good tactics they were only for aestetics. I like that the Rickon scene gets credit for being possible cuz of the bow and archery style used by Ramzay.
While its possible, the criticism isn't usually the equipment, its how he lands the shot after missing a ton of times at close range. When you are missing at close range and the target is gaining distance while you still haven't zeroed in on the target, it makes hitting the target at greater distances laughably hard. The perfect analogy (for some gun shooters) is the following: imagine shooting an AR-15 with base iron sights and missing at 100 yards. You get a small sense of where you should shoot for the next shot but surprise, I moved the target back to 250 yards. You shoot again and you miss. Not a surprise, its further out so your frame of reference for landing the shot at 100y is now moot. So you wanna try again. Surprise again... now its 500 yards. Ramsay hitting that shot is the equivalent of you missing all those shots and then by some divine luck hitting a 1000 yard shot in a single try. Possible? Sure? Likely? No.
@@МихаилРадулов-й4т Battle of Kingslanding had some good tactics I thought (feel free to correct me), but I agree especially the later on seasons (after 4) you could clearly tell the battles were to be more cinematic than strategic, which was enjoyable for most of them IMO the only one that sacrificed way too much strategy to the point it felt so unrealistic I couldn't even enjoy was the last one with the white walkers.
So true, I bet those other western archers would get a lesson from eastern archers since some of those archery like Kyūdō is Japanese archery martial arts that is far superior than todays since they use traditional bow and now attachments to make them cheat
@@Jeffro5564 From the ancient Scythians through to the Mongols and Tatars that style of archery replaced whatever was there wherever it went from Korea to Persia to Hungary.
@@Jeffro5564 Absolute cringe... "Superior"? No. It's just different. There are plenty of western trad shooters out there too, they aren't superior either. I use a recurve with no attachments and shoot off the shelf myself, that's the style I enjoy, if others want to use compound bows or counter weights, rests, sights or whatever else than that is fine. No choice in style is superior, especially not because it's "traditional". Mad daft.
I love that Merida gets 10/10. It's because animators visually study the heck out of whatever they are learning to animate and don't need to worry about things like actual physical ability of the actor, while the live-action directors mostly want something that looks cool on screen.
You know, maybe Hawkeye has gotten a bad rap this whole time, "he's just an archer." He is a superhero. No regular person could shoot like him. Hyper spatial awareness and body kinematics expertise lets him do impossible shots.
18:24 that bamboo guide is from Korean archery and is called a tongah and is used to fire those short arrows called aegisal or pyeonjeon. They were used for the reasons stated but also because without the tongah they were useless for enemy archers and couldnt be fired back, similar to the the Roman pilum and the wax mounted arrowheads of Europe
Also Orlando Bloom was already a competent Archer before I getting the role of Legolas Then put in a heap of time practising …. There’s some footage in the making of lord of the rings showing him hitting targets repeatedly at long distance with Bow he uses in the movies
Keep in mind, that this shot is from the top of the Helms Klam wall to the button, to stop the running orc! This explains the high elbow, because the target is 10m below!
@@DUCKYGAMINGau In a lot of shots, he's pulling back a light stunt bow and the arrows are CGI. And the less said about surfing a shield down stone stairs, the better.
The one thing that pissed me off in Hawkeye, the whole bell tower falling because of an arrow. If it fell because of that, it was structurally not sound and she did them a favor. It should have been fixed long ago as it was a danger to the public.
Of course it's not structurally sound, that's why they don't ring the bell anymore. In many bell towers today they have installed a speaker system to do the bells job as they can't be rung anymore due to concern over damages and many are considered historically significant, which they then used in the show as a joke.
I haven't even watched this yet but feel the urge to express how thrilled I am to see Grizzly Jim doing this - I clicked immediately once I saw the thumbnail, I really love this guy and his videos.
As a former recurve archer (or olympic bow) I really enjoyed watching this. This guy sure knows what he is talking about and I agree on most of it. Each archer has a custom bow and no one has exact the same equipment. Carbon arrows can indeed be 'Robin Hooded' as I have seen so myself. I shot at 25 meters and got 3 bronze medals from national championship, so it's nice to see this kind of video's.
@@stephenjones7090 The point he made though was that Robin had just been told for the first time to switch and he immediately got better by switching. It takes time to get used to doing something the opposite to how you have been always doing it, even if the technique works better that way.
Youngtusk. As a total non archer I have often wondered why no one seems to attach the flight feathers in a spiral to put spin on the arrow. Would this be of any benefit, or would it not work? I'd love someone to explain this to a total novice.
@@stephenjones7090 Haven't seen Robin Hood yet. So I cannot have a opinion about that show. But most archers are only left or right handed and cannot shoot both ways. If you can, that is a rare thing especially on a horse!
@@keithparker5103 The thing you have to consider is the part when the arrow leaves the bow. If you put the feathers wrong, it can drastically change the flight path of the arrow. Arrows mostly don't spin in the air, they wobble in a wave pattern. Look it up in slow motion arrow clips on RUclips. You don't want your arrow to go spinning because it only strays from target. Especially if you are shooting at 70 or 90 meters! Only in Hollywood movies you see a close-up of arrows spinning for drastic effects. Just like shooting flaming arrows. That's only done in movies and totally useless.
The only point I would make in regards to Hawkeye is that, as a comic book character, he has perfect spatial awareness, which means he can see a moving object and in his mind, track it's most likely trajectory, which means that for all intents and purposes, he can see a target behind him, unless it was Crazy Ivan-ing, of course.
One of my favorite little fun facts in history is that archeologists that have found grave sites of medieval battlefields were able to identify the skeletons of the archers by the greater bone density in the upper torso which signified greater muscle mass in the muscle groups most commonly used in archery.
That's so cool! Do you mind sharing the source? The fact that you can change you body by what you do it's just amazing to me!! And I love that fact, thanks for sharing it!!
@@francescafrancesca3554 Do not go too much with it if you do not want to look like body builder instead of Wonder Woman :D And only in with your upper body, what can bring a bit of unbalance for "figure"... One of my friends had to come back down to lighter bow - in the morning she pulled up her hair in front of mirror and noticed her muscles... She screamed and then never went over 18kg with bow...
@@classicambo9781 If it was answer to me... I'm the woman and archer in one, so it would be totally funny and out of whole target and few meters away, not only bullseye :P At least according all female archers I ever met and know, with that result you wouldn't be pretty even for your own gaze... But if you want look like half transformed Hulk from cartoons (what is the effect if you won't take care of your lower half - but it's not the archery), why not? Your body, your look, not my monkeys, not my circus. But first you should to know what are you talking about to talk about it at all :D
The last movie with the Korean archer is from a fantastic movie called War of the Arrows and he shot that guy in the leg to use him as bait for the guy's allies. I highly recommend watching it.
@@0MrFreckles0 he doesnt talk about it because he isnt knowledgeable in that area. But curving the arrow is real. For simplicity's sake watch Lars Anderson do it. Like him or not, he is able to do it.
I like how you described Archer's Paradox. Many archers really don't know the definition. I really enjoyed your various explanations and reasonings in this video. Pretty much spot on.
The last one he was using a Tong-ha which used to be a Korean state secret back then. In the movie he had to use it as the arrow was broken, which was a common practice for Korean archers at the time. They'd take a broken arrow, sharpen it, and shoot it back at their enemies. Of note, do remember that although a large body of archery falls under what is considered "western archery" and is considered "correct," there ARE other forms of archery that are very different and by no means less effective. For example, the thumb release method (also used in Korea) has little to no archer's paradox and you can shoot a whole lot more straighter. The Comanche shot with a pinch grip and to get around paradox they only cut one nock in the top limb of the bow so the string ran diagonal instead of straight. Carving a grip in the handle could make it behave almost like a center shot bow and so a Comanche could ride up within mere feet of a buffalo, fire a fully powered shot very accurately on a dime without worrying about paradox wildly affecting the shot placement so close.
"Little to no archer's paradox" I find that highly unlikely, if not outright impossible. The archer's paradox is caused by 1) the arrow being off-center from the travel of the string to the center of the bow, and 2) the force of the released string on the rear of the arrow, inertia, and friction of the arrow against the bow causing the arrow to compress and bend under pressure, creating an oscillation in the arrow. The only way to eliminate the archer's paradox is if there were a hole in the middle of the bow to shoot the arrow through so that it was in a straight line with the travel of the string. Even then, the force of compression would likely still cause some oscillation.
Knocking arrows out of the air doesn't always work. We had a game where people were fighting with foamed pipe swords and someone brought a homemade bow and tennis ball arrows. Large shields and armor weren't allowed so the bow ended up being *very* difficult to approach without getting owned. People started opting for more maneuverable weapons and they did hit arrows with them, but most of the time, it would either halfway snap the shaft or damage the flights, and you'd still get hit, it would just be a lot less comfortable. It didn't help that the Archer decided to climb a tree and shoot from on top of it...
Actually watched a movie yesterday where the guy did hit the arrow and it went down into his leg. It certainly saved his life, but in no way is it a perfect solution to be shot at with arrows.
In 'War of the Arrows' he was actually using an enemy broken arrow, and when drawing the arrow it was short so the pointy end was just hanging, he split half a bamboo and used that as a guide for a full length of pull.
there was also a tactic to shoot shorter arrows that way for a simple reason: if the enemy didn't have the same simple contraption, the arrows you flung towards them couldn't be reused against you.
One thing to Rambo: as far as I remember he had the bow disjointed for travelling. In this scene he puts it together. I don't think you can do that so easily without tools. Normally compound bows are handled with a massive press to change strings. You never take it apart for transport.
There are portable cable bow presses - but you would want to use them as a last resort (or if you were in the middle of nowhere with a disassembled bow).
@@chrisgorman1652 I even built one myself, but I never had a good feeling using it. Yes it is possible, but nothing done that fast. And a modern compound bow is not that big anyways.
Smallville? I wasn't really all that into the series but I watched a lot of it. Don't particularly remember any archery being in it. Care to give some pointers on when, where and whom was involved?
@@blahorgaslisk7763 Smallville had a much more comic accurate Green Arrow (although I personally like the darker Arrowverse version). If I remember correctly he does use the crossbow more often, but there are scenes of him shooting with a bow.
@@caitlynskiff2001 yeah, recently finished watching Season 10 (and been going through it all over again), and Oliver, in Smallville, alternated between a crossbow and traditional bow and arrow, throughout the show. If I'm not mistaken, he even taught Mia how to shoot. I remember him teaching Chloe how to shoot... I wonder, with Arrow, if the water hitting exercise was "accurate", or any good. It's from Season 2, when Oliver was on Lian Yu, and Shado was training him, while they were with Slade. Oliver, in present day, then passes on the training to Roy, later on in Season 2, after Roy had been injected with Mirakuru. In fact, it would be cool if the expert guy (forgot his name) could review Oliver's training session with Helena when he's shooting at tennis balls.
A note on the arrow on one side or the other of the bow. That's *not* a Western vs Eastern thing. If you look through Medieval European sources you find tons of references to archers in Europe shooting with arrows on either side of the bow. The preference for shooting on one side only is a modern thing, likely originating in the Victorian era, when archery became a sport with rules and regulations to it, rather than something used for survival in either war or necessity hunting.
If you aim along the arrow, you kind of need the arrow on the inside of the bow. It's slower to thread it that way, but in a competition you don't need speed. And most of the time probably not in combat either, since the difference isn't significant if you're practiced enough. If it works for you it works for you, and medieval people were practical and didn't confirm too hard to standards.
agree lars anderson has some good vids on the subject . when ur life is at stake skills like this were a part of life . also slingers are some badasses too
@@mrwascallyt9865 What I've seen from Lars is mostly just trick shooting, which, while impressive, is not the same kind of technique you'd use in a battle. However, from my understanding he does aim instinctively, which is very useful in battle, and gives enough precision for the purpose. Slings are underrated, although hard to master.
@@AnotherDuck For a "fantasy" archer like Legolas or Hawkeye, Lars' techniques look quite good whilst being possible, although I am certain that he shoots a lower-poundage bow.
People have no idea how difficult all this is. I once participated in a course that took place on a meadow. We hit almost nothing. Most of the time the arrow landed in the meadow and, believe it or not, the arrows kept travelling underneath the surface of the wet meadow. So we soon were busy trying to find lost arrows and we only found most of them.
@@SnapShooter1969 Difficulty is subjective. Considering years (and money) was historically spent training archers, the general opinion definitely isn't that archery is easy.
@@SnapShooter1969 it's easy to learn to shoot consistently with a light bow at 10 yards, sure. It's not easy to be accurate at 30 metres with a heavy bow however
In “War of the Arrows”, the reason he is using such a short arrow is more for the reason that it can’t be shot back at him by the enemy, which is a tactic that was used by several groups of people.
@@markusayasse99 The short arrow or 애깃살 was a military secret in Korea. They tried to limit the usage as the Jurchens and Japanese could copy the technique.
similar tactics to the use of roman pilum ... it was designed to break after impact so it couldn't be thrown back at the legions, but at the same time it could be harvested after a victorious battle and repaired, and re-used.
14:52 I like how he acknowledged the fact that Olympic form of archery is Great for target but yeh situation in hunting scenario is completely different . I think that clarifies many of my doubts about archery.
Go watch Lars Anderson he is one of the only people in the world actually rediscovering traditional archery and not just using it as a title and still using modern techniques like the guy does here in this video.
@@jbudbuds4484 Yeah, the dude in the video mentioned the guy. And he also mentioned that Anderson is just going more of an Eastern route. Not specifically "More traditional"
@@L4sket He said that but it is worth noting that medieval sources do suggest that archers did shoot on the right side (right handed) so whilst many people now say that's Eastern style there isn't any evidence to support that, and being on the right makes for faster reloads and since they learnt at the time for the purpose of war, quicker reloads would be a priority. So I don't know if its really fair to say he's going for a hybrid, because like I said most western sources also shot on the right side, and it isn't actually much harder if at all.
That's one thing I love about animation/art, the dedication of the artists and how thoroughly they research to portray something accurately as possible. *chef kiss* wonferful
I highly recommend Grizzly Jim's videos to anyone that's interested in archery. They taught me basically everything I needed and wanted to know when I just started out! :)
My only complaint; Legolas was shooting at an Orc that was roughly 50 feet below him so his "high elbow" was just a reflection of his whole torso leaning forwards - which should be accurate as you explained in a previous scene...
He's looking for the elbow to be parallel to the torso no matter the position you're firing. The elbow wouldn't go up without the rest of the body going down an equal amount but in that case they moved a bit independently of each other
@@xavmanisdabestest unless you have a crenalation that goes up to your chest. At that point you would have to shoot awkwardly to angle it because it would be impossible to angle your body.
This was really validating. I started archery when I was around 13. i'm mixed handed and I think it created the mixed method for me that you described. I held the bow in a right handed manner but i shot in a left handed manner. I was chastised for "doing it wrong" for a long time and was made to shoot fully right handed but i found i was more accurate shooting it mixed method. So thanks, I feel better knowing that how i did it was okay.
He says "mixed method", but historical depictions of archers almost always had the arrow on the right regardless of the draw type (three-finger or thumb or pinch). So maybe modern archery, as Lars Anderson did point out (while providing as much historical and mathematical accuracy as possible), has it wrong and we're being taught something which is not the original archery at all. I can see reasons why nocking left would benefit, such as tilting excessively, but I always found it illogical and uncomfortable nocking on the left consistently. I will give him the fact that adjusting takes time, but for me, swapping from left to right took me 3 shots to adjust my aim and form both, but drastically improved my accuracy and speed in only three shots. In the instance of Robin Hood, Lars Anderson was the foremost expert and what Lars does isn't playing around, it's legit tactics from historical text (and yes there can be exaggerations in there because people exaggerate, lol). Lifting the wheel for exercise was for the muscles used to push the bow forward because you are not only using the draw muscles, but also pushing on a massive amount of weight with the opposing arm. Granted, there would be better exercises for proper muscles, which make you tilt sideways and push, not lay on your back with a wheel. But again for which side to draw on, I will trust the artists of eld who sketched/carved/sewed arrows on the right even up to 5000 BCE more than modern archers. Plus personal experience. When you draw on the right, the string slaps toward the right and away from your arm. This should be a big red flag. Arm guards are more of a modern thing. Finding information about them historically is just like bow stringers. They are modern.
@@Lycantis Modern archery was a revitalisation of an art that was by the point of it becoming a sport, was no longer in use in the military. There were several hundred years between the bow being used in combat, and archery as a sport. So you aren't wrong. Modern archery was a reinvention of a dead art, and used against stationary targets which influenced its development.
This is so exciting! I'm a traditional archer. I've been shooting since I was old enough to hold a bow. I started on recurve until I was about 10 when I got my first compound bow and then I went back to traditional archery when I was in my late teens. Now at 40 I've been shooting traditional archery for over 20 years. After this many years I'm still at a 65 lb bow and I know that sounds heavy but I hunt and I never want my shots to go to waste. There are a lot of longbow and recurve bows that still use sites and that's perfectly fine. I shoot instinctually so I don't use any sites but it's like throwing a baseball. When you throw a baseball, you don't aim down your arm and hope to hit the target. Your body just knows how to aim for the target. I don't know about a lot of people, but I learned how to shoot traditional with both eyes open. I know that's very common but with compound bow it's such a different monster to deal with... It's kind of funny because one of my favorite bows that I use is a timber ridge takedown recurve that's only 40 lb. My favorite bow to shoot is 65 lb Mongolian horse bow.
I’d like to mention that the actor in Robin Hood was taught by Lars Anderson and most shots were legit, like hitting the arrows, and knocking on the right side with the Mediterranean style of holding the arrow.
Well, Lars Andersson is a legit archer. He just focuses on trick shots, which is a different style from competitive target archery, or hunting, or medieval battle archery. Knocking on the right side is faster, since you don't have to thread the arrow. However, you don't have the same line of sight, so precise aiming is harder (which doesn't matter if you aim instinctively). But mostly when it comes to styles, like how you hold the string/arrow, knocking side, anchor point, bow angle, etc., it's about what you're more comfortable with. What works for you works for you.
@@AnotherDuck No one today practices medieval battle archery. No one. That's because this isn't the Middle Ages, and no one (aside from a few isolated hunter-gatherer tribes that still exist) uses bows as weapons of war anymore. What Lars does is every bit as potentially relevant to medieval battle archery, as far as we know, as anything target shooters do.
I'm glad they included War of the Arrows. Very great movie. It is very intense action and splendidly displays tactics, wind, and everything that involved archery back in those times. Highly recommend watching it
Glad Brave got perfect marks. Sure, not a perfect movie, but Very well animated, voiced, acted, writen, paced, and researched, and a fantastic look into Scottish history/folklore.
You can really know the guy is professional because you can't even question his explanation, its so accurate that he even pointed out even the smallest details. I am a member of Archery club so I do have a beginner to average knowledge about archery. He really is an awesome and knowledgeable guy
I've been coaching archery for years and I must say everything he said was spot on. People got poked by the nock all the time if they didn't follow proper retrieving instructions, no one ever got hurt by the pointer😁 Interesting fact in "War of the Arrows", extensions were often use in ancient wars, because arrows were limited resource and they often reuse arrows from the battlefield, which would normally be broken and needed to trim down. For those who hasn't seen the movie, the protagonist injured the enemy to draw out his fellow team for rescue, a typical tactical for modern day snipers.
"the piece of bamboo" is not attached to the bow , but to the hand by a cord . "tong-ah" is called in korea . I stopped using it some 12 years ago . used often will eventually damage your bow .
@@bulllea I have guys do traditional bow told me the same, and it cuts your hand pretty bad, but during war every arrow counts, they must use everything they could find.
@@tomarnold7284 it will not cut your hand , only in a case of accident . it's a dangerous device , you can damage your hand badly if something go very wrong like when the tip of the mini-arrow (pyeonjeon) slip away from tong-ah before the release . usually you hear a small noise if this is the case and you will not proceed to do the release . the bamboo must be pretty stiff and the end must be cut in a certain way . I was the first archer to use that in my country , I never had any accident , but since I discourage anyone to try it . it's too dangerous . it's not worth the risk . the mini-arrow have an amazing speed , usually at short distance you will not see it in flight .
@@bulllea It was used 1200 AD or before for Koreans according to the record. Similar weapons were used by others. However, Koreans were extremely notorious of using such weapon during wars against Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, and Jurchens. Overall, Korean military were known for bow accuracy since the ancient, and it made these short arrows extremely effective.
The best movie about archery is War of the Arrows. Koreans take archery seriously because they have been known for thousands of years as expert archers. The scene you described about wounding the other person is because he was being chased by another group of archers. Basically was a trap to reveal where the other guys were. When you watch the scene further, you see that someone falls for the trap and tries to pull him into cover which reveals the positions of others.
11:30 Except Clint actually does run out of arrows, not very long after that. As for the trick shot, I agree with it being far fetched but they are trying to establish him as having preternatural aim. Beyond that though, after you mentioned the mirror shot, you have to think about the fact that he's surrounded by buildings with a LOT of very reflective glass.
Also, Clint's a superhero. It's going to be ridiculous and it has to look cool on film. I definitely give leeway to those characters because there is always a level of disbelief.
@@sarcasmxkate and Brave is an animated children's Film, yet its archery scenes are phenomenal. This video was about the attention to details. Leeway aside, what the OP said is actually true. Clint was born with a natural gift. Imagine working out those physics problems of finding the right angles and distances for a projectiles - Clint can do that in his head in a fraction of second. Which explains why he doesn't need to set up his forms before taking shots.
@@scientia.veritas this is my point though. While I love that Brave took the super accurate road, they could have done something truly wild and I would not have cared because I give leeway to characters on film. It's dope when actors can go super realistic. I love that too and it's cool to see experts teach us how it should be done, but when we're talking about movies, I'm not overly concerned with how accurate. I like the spectacle of it. That's all I'm saying.
But another thing I would like to mention that, arrows are not that fast. The spacecraft blows away as soon as he shot the arrow, like he shot a bullet. The spacecraft looked quite far away. Recurve bow shoots arrow upto 200 ft/s, not that fast. Also, laser sight doesn't work on bow, because arrows drop over distance, it doesn't shoot as straight as bullet. That's why bow sights have muliple pins and or single pin with slider.
Historically there have been cases of military archers loosing multiple arrows from the string at once. Yes it limits your accuracy, yes it limits the power each arrow can deliver, but it has been done effectively against lightly armored opponents more or less like a shotgun blast rather than accurately placing each arrow where you want it.
Perhaps, it can also be the artist got the visual wrong and that 3 arrows arent being shot at once, but held in the offhand and rapidly reloaded Lars style. Which would probably make more sense because with a bit more training you are showering the same amount of missiles downwind for increased power.
It's also possible that after a couple of thousand years of practice, a super strong warrior might just develop a few skills not accessible to mere mortals.
The Hawkeye scene where he shoots behind him, is what you described with the mirror. I think it is implied that he is so skilled and mindful of his surroundings that he was able to see that thing in the windows of a building in front of him.
It's actually really fun and it's a way to build a degree of upper body strength. Regular maintenance of the bow and regular practice for yourself after some tutoring and you'll do just fine.
Highly recommend the korean War of The Arrows movie! Great guerilla tactics and archery warfare there. It's actually free to watch on RUclips as well legally from RUclips themselves. As for context to the scene, the arrow used there is exactly for the same reason the expert said however, it was also used in that situation so that your enemy could not use it back at you without the proper equipment aka the bamboo shaft used to hold it in. It also was sort of makeshift as the character had broken one of his arrows in half and sharpened it for the ambush. And the reason why the archer didn't go for the kill was because he was using the enemy as bait for the other enemies nearby for whomever would try and help their fallen teammate's cries for help.
The point he makes at 8:36 is the same as why you're told to "squeeze, don't pull" when an instructor at a gun range teaches firing a gun as well, every move your muscles make might influence where you're pointing the gun, or in this case, a bow and arrow. Interesting how a cartoon movie is more accurate than most live action productions.
One thing he mentioned in Brave is letting your hand release it smoothly. Just to expand on it. Actually it's your back not your hand nor your arm. By using your back to pull the string, your fingers will naturally let go off the string. When he mentioned the archery muscles, it's mostly the back.
That's almost always the case for what muscles you use in various athletic efforts. It's usually closer to your core than you think. And you usually use a bigger part of your body than you think.
@@AnotherDuck True that. I remember having to correct beginners who attended the same MMA gym as me-they thought that doing things like bicep curls would be most important for their punching power. In reality, it comes from your legs, abdominal obliques, your back, and of course drilling good enough technique to efficiently and consistently tie all of those different muscle groups together.
@@Sakaki98 The best way to see what you're using is to keep doing whatever it is you want to do, and then see where you get tired or wear out first. That's either the muscles you're supposed to use, or the muscles you're incorrectly using due to bad technique. If you've got an instructor you can probably figure out which.
That is very interesting! I found out I shoot "wrong" haha, because I was at a work team-building outing. I'm right handed, so they handed me a right handed bow...HOWEVER I learned to shoot with a left handed bow apparently (was just laying around and my step dad IS left handed) so after some truly wild attempts that felt completely unnatural, I saw one other person had a left handed bow... I then shot it like a RH with my left hand forward, but the shelf (new word to me) was away from me. The instructor scoffed, but I started really nailing the target. They thought it was some "pool shark" stuff foing on, but I legit couldn't shoot a RH bow with any sort of accuracy. I was lucky to get the arrow to go in a respectable direction. haha but the LH bow, shooting like a RH person was like butter! it really is about what makes you comfortable.
What matters most in archery is not whether you're right- or left-handed, but whether you're right- or left-eyed. I discovered this when I took my son shooting, and the coach quickly figured out that although he is right-handed, he is left-eye dominant. (You can test this for yourself by pointing at something in the distance and then alternately closing your right or your left eye: with which eye does your pointing remain 'on target'?) So my right-handed son shoots left-handed, with a left-handed bow.
@@jamesaustin7159 I agree, the dominant eye is the important body part for archery. In my opinion, an easier way to determine which is the dominant eye is the following: Stretch out both arms and put the hands together, so that both index fingers and thumbs form a small window. Focus through this window a point in the distance, use something that is easy to focus on for that. Now you slowly move your hands back towards your face. Keep both eyes open and keep focused on the point in the distance through the small window. When your hands hit your head you will realize you only actually looking at the point in the distance with one eye, as the window is so close to your eyes that you can't look through it with both of your eyes. This is the dominant eye.
Damn no “Arrow”? I know the show has its flaws but Stephen Ammell I thought did a fantastic job getting people to believe he was one of the world’s best archers.
Feel like the Lord of the Rings one is a bit hard to judge. He was shooting down from a very high wall which given your explanation of tilting your body to adjust would explain a high elbow, and elves are a lot stronger than humans so the draw strength on their bows is probably larger than you'd think
He's also using a mythical bow handed to him by the Elven King. I wouldnt be surpised if it had like 200lbs on that thing, and as a Tolkien Elf that wouldnt be anything for him.
Grizzly Jim is one the most awesome and genuine guys. I drove to Merlin and bought a bow from him years ago and he took time to shoot with me and my cousin in the on site range for hours and even personally helped out with any issues. The mans and archery hero and a top bloke. He deserves more recognition. Glad to see you doing well Grizzly! Also if you are an avid archer like me then check out Grizzly Strings and Merlin Archery!
“Hitting arrows out of the air is great, but not something I would really recommend trying.” Man I’m so glad we have the opinion of a professional archer here
The explosive tipped arrow in Rambo was in fact a Razorback 5 broadhead with its protective cover on. When Hoyt/Easton came out with the Rambo bow, they also offered a two piece folding arrow with an elastic cord inside that held it snug, it was a black 2216 aluminum arrow shaft with 3 five inches black vanes and nock. In the late 80s, compound bows were usually 45 to 48 inches long, so you can shoot them with your fingers. The bow used in Rambo 3 was a Hoyt/Easton Pro Vantage FPS Plus.
"You don't let go of the string. The trick is to try and no longer be holding the string." That kind of elegant subtlety is what makes me love listening to experts...in anything.
You alow to arrow to leave.
He is dead on right there. The analogy we use in our archery classes is: You carry a shopping bag in your hooked fingers - and simply drop it. You let loose.
Which is why they created a thing called a quick release🤦♂️
@@joebenson6083 ye but not everyone wants to rely on those gadgets… feels like cheating to me
its easy... dont let go of the arrow... you let the arrow go...
A thing about Brave, Pixar came down to our local archery shop and had the owner and some other top archers go to the studio and talk about proper stance while shooting and they brought different bows to show the difference between how they worked. They had about 10 cameras that captured everything while shooting. Was pretty awesome. That’s why it deserves a 10/10.
He didn't mention a tiny detail: she cut her cheek on the fletching
Thats really cool
That's really cool that they came to the store! I loved the amount of realism of archery in this movie
Pixar usually does tons of research for every new type of animation that they do I find that truly amazing
But.... Was it historically accurate?
I've seen other archery experts rate movies. "Brave" also got a 10/10 with them. The attention to detail in that movie was dead on. Even the attitude of a master archer was right.
Brave got everything right (animators, concept artists, historical research, environmental modeling) except for the direction and writing*.
* Apparently the story had a lot of executive meddling and went through extensive rewrites, and then rewrites on top of rewrites, and then the whole concept was rebooted and rewritten again a few times, this time under a new director who replaced the old one, and it shows.
@@Vasharan That explains why it ended up as basically another sequal to Brother Bear story wise then. I love the Merida character and the setting but my god that story is a disapointment.
But doesn't brave take place in 10th century Scotland. Why would she be using a recurve bow? She is also using a Mediterranean draw which seems a bit unusual for Scotland at this time.
Thats simply a feature of animation. They didn't 'know' anything, they just animated everything clean and square and straight and mechanical. It would've actually been way harder to animate a realistic human archer.
@@jonathanblowers4720 As far as I know, there were recurve bows in all of Europe at that time. They were far more common in the eastern Europe and less common in the west, but even in Scotland they had them. Likewise, draw style most likely varied depending on preference and instructions.
The thing I love about Brave is their attention to detail. It's so minute that when they zoom in on her face for the final arrow, you see she has a scar/scratch at her ancor point. Which implies years of repetitive rubbing from the feathers of her arrows
you sea that injury happen as she shoots from the flights on the arrow
@@dynamitedingo8183 you can actually see it prior to that
There is also an immediate feather cut on her cheek
I thought she was scratching/cutting her face with the feather right there and then?
Love his casual light humorous approach to something he’s so passionate about. No ego, just knowledge.
perfectly exemplified when he says "whatever brings you the biggest smile."
Grizzly Jim is a great dude, check out his videos
You have no knowledge if you say that, because he is nowhere near expert level.
@@michalviktorin6758 you need to get a life.
@@michalviktorin6758 you should re-read what he's saying
At 8:47 with "Brave", you can actually see the fletching slightly scratch her cheek as the arrow leaves. I was surprised at the level of detail and thought they put into this one scene.
Animators had a field day because the producer said "have at it and get it right!". Things like that hinge on budget and schedule.
I think BRAVE is a splendid film and, even though I have the archery wherewithal of pine cone, its archery felt very authentic when I watched it.
Glad to see a real archer give it high marks!
Damn, I never noticed that until now!
That's pretty cool.
Most likely they filmed multiple real arrows being shot in slow motion.
Every practiced archer's jaw dropped when they saw this scene. They really, really researched this and made a commitment not to "Hollywood" one little bit. The other scene, with the suiters taking their shots was equally well researched. The three made exactly the kind of mistakes real-world, inexperienced archers make.
I really appreciate the fact that Jim brought a bow and arrow with him to illustrate many of his comments about the equipment.
I mean, if your work and public image revolves around using bow and arrows i would asume you carry some with you everywhere you go, just in case
My university has an indoor archery range quietly hidden away and very few people knows of its existence. In a glass enclosed display are several "split arrows". When someone successfully shot an arrow into the back of another, the arrows get displayed with a plaque with the name of the archer, date, and stats of the bow (draw weight, type, etc.). In all the years the range has existed (more than 100 years), there were only 8 split arrows on display.
What univ.?
Simmilar situation at my local archery club. We have 2 one „displayed“ and one taken home by the guy who did it.
Used to play nok nok as a kid. We all had aluminum arrows and tried to hit the nok of your opponents arrow. Land a shot and the nok would break.
I used to do Archery when I was a teenager, and splitting an arrow was called a 'Robin Hood'. It did happen quite frequently at our club, but then again we did have quite some pro archers- like olympic level, but compound bows aren't (or weren't at least) an olympic category.
Well hitting the end of another arrow isn't really too rare when you already have 15 in the target and you do it for hundreds of hours over time. Honestly, it's an annoyance, arrows aren't that cheap.
Grizzly Jim has for years been one of the friendliest and best informed members of the online archery community, it’s great to see him get some mainstream attention.
It's kind ironic that he's so friendly given that his name is "Grizzly Jim"...Maybe he should be called "Teddy Jim"
He’s actually not pretentious like other experts on this program
seems like he's just an expert on mediterranean archery or am i wrong?
@@aliendoggy1 We'll that's what he shoots so that's where most of his experience lies. He is educated enough to know about other styles of shooting as well. I'm sure he's shot different styles enough to speak to them.
@@pengy44 nah. He was clearly bias on the overdraw which is common and successful in asian archery.
I love that this guy actually has appreciation for the fact that sometimes you need to sacrifice realism for the sake of filmmaking, and he can just let it go and enjoy the movie/show. In so many of these videos with an expert examining something, the expert just criticizes everything ruthlessly as a way to flex their knowledge, but this guy spends like 90% of the time complimenting the stuff they do right and only a small amount of time mentioning what they did wrong
I feel this guy was kinda harsh tho too. Lars Anderson was revolutionary towards archery and robin hood used his style directly consulting him and he gave it a 4 ??? And the hawkeye i get what he was saying but damn its like he didnt understand hes a superhero that never misses. But maybe im misunderstanding his critics.
@@TheGoldenCulture Probably because Lars Anderson's style is largely for trick shots with low poundage bows, which doesn't translate well for what's supposed to be a more grounded movie.
@@SamehSyedAjmal Lars Anderson was on the set of that movie and literally trained the actor how to shoot the bow that way, and what was filmed was him really putting it into practice, so it's actually even more grounded in reality than you realize, or the guy in the video above realized. Every one of his critiques of the style are problems that Lars addresses, so they are not valid criticisms at all lol.
In this instance, the expert is only an expert in his own form of archery. He even admits he doesn't know how to shoot like that, so he literally has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to that style of archery, as it is completely outside of his training and expertise.
But that's their point.
@@lazerhosen exactly what ive been trying to say. Also lars sources comes from old war books assuming it was right these techniques were used in war. And i think that qualifies it as grounded.
Hawkeye actually runs out of arrows in Avengers (2012)! There's a whole scene dedicated to it, and you can see him gathering arrows in the backgrounds of other shots later.
Yeah I feel like either he hasn't seen or doesn't remember this and the person showing him clips did a disservice by not including the clip of him running out.
Those will be arrows that didn't hit... Arrows that hit pretty much shatter upon impact. Coming from Hawkeye, he shouldn't have missed 😜
@@illvm is that universal? Hawkeye had like grappling hook and exploding arrows and stuff like that so surely they would also be reusable right?
@@harriettubman2717 you have a valid point, but it will depend on the utility of the specific arrow. Grappling hook is designed as a tool for mobility. Exploding arrows, well, if they exploded upon impact, I'm not sure which part of it you can recover. If the arrows are forged as a whole in vibraminium, I'll be somewhat convinced that they can be reused.
@@illvm Except that's plausible for later MCU movies, but not for The Avengers when Hawkeye just has access to toys the US military can provide, not Starktech. I guess technically they might have access to some vibranium for special reusable arrows -- Howard provided the Shield 50 years previously, after all. But it would be pretty rare still, with Wakanda working to keep it scarce.
I'm a bit sorry this video was filmed midway through the Hawkeye series -- to my untrained eye the clock tower scene was the worst archery scene in the show, so I'm curious about GJ's opinions on the later scenes.
I think I remember Hawkeye (the actor, Jeremy Renner) actually DID go do some archery training himself for the role, but the filmmakers made him do all the silly trick shots instead because it just looked cooler to them apparently.
This video actually encouraged me to check on Renner as last I heard he may lose a leg from the accident he was in but he didn't! And he looks to be recovering well for what happened.
That's the thing sometimes with these expert vids they forget a crucial part when they are judging. In the movie they are judging usually the person is the #1 genius in that field in that universe. So complaining about a no look shot because it usually requires a mirror doesn't mean matter all that much.
It makes sense its fiction so its allowed in a sense to be more creatvie even if it isnt realistic the techniques.
@@drake7993 He’s also in the middle of a city with a lot of very reflective windows, so he easily (within the logic of the film) COULD be using a window or reflective building as a mirror.
The thing is this guy says certain things are unrealistic but then later goes on to admit that he has seen Lars Andersen (who does those things), so he knows full well that actually it absolutely is realistic.
A bit disingenuous really.
Not only was this fascinating, Jim was incredibly easy to listen to and enjoyable. Bravo on another fantastic video, Insider.
disagree. I don't mind his educating us once he's satisfied the real question in our mind, "Can you really make that shoot?" No. OK. Now tell me everything else
@@o_LL_o I don't really see why that matters
💯
@@o_LL_o idk, that’s definitely not the real question in my mind. I wonder about the stance and the physics just as much as the possibility of the shot.
I’m loving that Pixar always seems to hit reality closer than live action.
It is kind of ironic. That the cartoon that is not at all trying to be realistic is more realistic than the super hero movie that fills its' scripts with science mobo jumbo nonsense to be "realistic" at a surface level. Or in other words the cartoon doesn't try but does better than the one that tries really hard.
@@SirNarax so interestingly I think it’s the other way around. The Cartoon people go out of their way to mimic reality so hard that they do it better than live action
@@mikeaninger7388 Don't take it too far. Brave is about a mother who gets cursed by a witch and turns into a bear. It is hardly trying to mimic reality, just trying to mimic how people actually move.
I agree.. but its realistic for alot of trick shots and crazy on the go high speed shots with pinpoint accuracy and literally no time to line up shots. There are videos of people doing it here on youtube a simple search will lead you right to some of the best unknown archers you've ever seen IRL.
I'd imagine it's easier.
Animating posture is exactly what you make it.
Having real actors do it would be more difficult. Like with the katniss critique. Her body didn't know what to do when she wasn't on flat ground. In animation you can make the form look good even if it would lead to an angle that would be uncomfortable to a real actor
I love how he mentioned humans are capable of being able to react to arrows. Most of the time in movies where people are being shot, they have NO idea an arrow is flying towards them despite looking at the Archer. I'd say, most of the time unless you're 100% oblivious to the Archer, you're gonna see a small dark brown stick flying at you. (Now whether or not you're able to avoid it is one thing.) but most of the time you'll see it, and have a moment to react.
The arrows aren´t exactly quiet either. So even if you weren´t able to see archer shooting at you, you´d definitely hear the shot coming towards you.
Yeah you got one second baby!
@@Yellow-Rose really? One long second? That's enough time to react, specially for someone trained for it.
A little stick going 150-200mph
Modern compound bows shoot around 300 feet per second, average human reaction time is around .25 of a second. Lets say you are 50 yards away from archer (long shot for hunting) it will take .04 seconds for sound of the bow to get to you, plus your reaction time of .25 seconds gives you .30 seconds. You are left with .20 seconds to get out of the way of the arrow, but if you are within 30 yards (normal hunting range) you would get hit before reacting to it.
Something that was complimented about archery in the Avengers was that Hawkeye did run out of arrows; he doesn't have a limitless supply. There are shots where you see him walking around the battlefield, looking for arrows, and examining them to see if they can be used again .
i’m pretty sure there was even a shot of him reaching back to grab another arrow, realising he was out, and had to resort to something else!
@@cheyenneroberts4785 there was
@@cheyenneroberts4785 Yep, he pulled out of target he had shot it into and had it switched to grapple arrow and used it to escape into the building to get away from the fight for moment as he no longer had arrows to use
"Brave" represents what all movie crews should do - learn to represent some sort of ideas in the movies.
This scene is absolutely phenomenal.
I have like 22 maybe 23 years of experience in archery, also as a bow and arrowmaker which in time evolved to being a blacksmith. Anyway making a "Robin Hood shot" with wooden arrows is possible but to split the wooden shaft like in "Brave" there have to be some certain conditions.
Wooden arrows can be made three ways - 1. by splitting a log into finer and finer shafts and then turning them round or conical and then proceed with assembling an arrow;
2. cutting young shoots, season them in tight bundles and then making them into arrows with all the steps nescesery
3. make shafts from square wood pieces cut to dimensions (like f.e. 1/2 x 1/2 inch) by turning them through the dowel maker (which is totally modern way)
Number 1 and 2 are historically correct way of making an arrow and due to even wood grain it is actually possible to split an arrow with another arrow. Especially with no. 2 method as it behaves like a bamboo (which is another case in sucessfull splitting arrow) due to round grain crossection as it's basically an arrow made out of a young branch.
Oh, and the eastern style bamboo shelf for short arrows is called tong-ah and it roots in Korean archery. Yes, it is real.
“Aim for the moon, even if you miss, you’ll land amongst the stars.” -Bow and arrow Quote 🏹
I used to use bamboo arrows when I practised Chinese archery, I remember a couple of time when somenoe broke accidentally one arrow with another. Archery is a facinating world, thanks for sharing your knowlage, it's very interesting.
I used to shoot with a takedown bow and some recycled old wood arrows a few years ago. Managed to get a partial "Robin Hood split" myself. They always glanced off with the natural grain pattern and never got past 4 or 6 inches. So like many things it's possible but never to the extent shown in fantasy lol.
Are these Tong Ahs generally also loose and go with the hand of the archer like shown in the movie or are they more often like Jim thought fixed to the bow and stay on there?
@@dragonsword7370 that's more what I was thinking.
Yes, it's possible, but at some point you need to get lucky because the conditions required for it to split all the way down aren't only dependant on archer skill.
I must admit, I'm kinda disappointed they didn't give this guy any scenes from Arrow to comment on. That would have been really interesting because I've read that Stephen Amell put a LOT of work into his role on that show, including doing as much of his action/stunt work as possible, so I'd have loved to hear comments on how he did as an archer there
You're joking. 90% of combat scenes in arrow are guys with assault rifles acting like absolute idiots and just missing for no reason so they don't gun him down.
Agreed. This is the second one of these of watched now and neither featured Arrow...
@Chris Wings It MCU milk bottle spotted 😂😂😂😂
Yeah, I really wished they added the Green Arrow
@@Aftershock416 Like how the bad guys tried to shoot Batman in BvS but they always missed him. 🤣
l love how he understands all cultures of archery. His historical and present day knowledge is on point.
Unfortunately not quite. I got skeptical when he reviewed Robin Hood and only confirmed by his review on War of the Arrows. He's unfamiliar with eastern styles of archery. Doesn't know what an overdraw device is (tong ah as seen in War of the Arrows). Probably won't know what hatra/khatra is among other techniques.
Also, it's one thing to attempt perfect accuracy in competitions and such. It's another thing in the battlefield. You're not looking to get perfect accuracy in the battlefield; archers are going for maximum output to rain down upon their enemies. So both western and eastern cultures had their forms of speed archery using longbows or reflex bows. Injuring soldiers is far more easier to do than to kill (armor unlike in movies does its job protecting the user from arrows therefore lethal hits from arrows are incredibly difficult to do even with bodkin points)
I'm not saying he's a bad reviewer. From a western style traditional archer, he's great. But he does lack some information regarding eastern style of archery.
@@mintyfresh4855 that’s true I didn’t even think of that
Absolutely
@@mintyfresh4855 an armor expert loved the movie scene where the arrows lodged in the knights armor but didn't actually hurt him any. because thats what the armor was actualy designed to do, to actually kill the fully armored knight with an arrow was next to impossible. All the other expert videos I've watched claim movies always get the use of bows wrong, they have archers being used like guns were later on, every archer waiting until every other archer is ready than all firing at once, which would mean the faster archer is going to be warn out by the time the slower ones are ready. That not how it actually worked. When they commanded the archers to attack each one would lose an arrorw when ready, reload and repeat. And they were fast. Much faster than loading early guns, which were not very accurate which is why the did fire all the muskets together, it was only way to actually hit somebody.
@@mintyfresh4855 agreed. He knows WHERE those styles come from, but that’s about it
As an archery competition shooter, a USArchery coach and an archery range owner, I give Jim's ratings a 10/10. 100% spot on reviews from the movies to the little comments about your archery knowledge!
As an uninformed pleb, I give your rating of Jim's ratings a 10/10.
As a conscientious bystander, i give your rating of his rating of Jims ratings an absolute 10/10. Great job!
@@cfly87 As a half asleep crab, i give your rating of their rating of the OP's rating of Jim's rating an unadulterated 10/10. also (unrelated), the punniness of USArchery is just... delightful.
"Killin dudes running away, type of archery"
So casual 😂😂
The best kind of archery 😌
What I wanna be when I grow up🤣
Is there any other kind? Some joker might say killing dudes running to you but we consider it the same dissipline, if did'nt know.
I lol’d at that one! 😂
nice, a verified check mark channel amde a comment on a higher sub count channel, nice try fishing for subs and likes
12:00 Bows are classified as sporting equipment, and so are baseball bats. Both are ridiculously dangerous if used incorrectly.
*if used correctly
Now there's two kinds of people.🤣
@@Foxleaxer1981 beat me to it
Of course Kefka is the one saying this
Does that mean that you can open carry a bow and arrow in the US ?
In my country, they are totally classified as weapons.
The last movie was a Korean archer using a Tong-ha. At the time, inventions such as the Tong-ha were relatively unknown to foreign enemies, and therefore considering that Korea possessed very skilled archers and the benefits of a short arrow (Less weight, enemies can't reuse), it was said to be a national secret against invaders.
Correction: Tong-ah
Can u give movie name?
@@bbaking7483 War of Arrows
Korean call it tong ah, a piece of bamboo that can use it to shot short arrow. Turkish call it majra,persian call it navak,and roman byzantine call it solenarion. Both are the same device that shot short arrow or crossbow bolt. Which is briliant idea at the time,i discovered this from book call saracen archery.
@@muizismail4844 Yep, Koreans weren't the only ones who invented this. Other achery nations like the ones you mentioned also did.
@@muizismail4844 I've never seen this before brother. If I'm not mistaken majra means canal and navak means tunnel(Arabic). Do you know what time period this might have been used?
Funny how he says he would be ziging and zagging, cause that's exactly what everyone yelled at Rickon when the scene first aired
I kept thinking of the scene in the original "In-Laws"; Falk has told Arkin that when he's running he has to "serpentine." So the bad guys are shooting at Arkin, he gets about halfway to Falk who yells "serpentine! serpentine!" so Arkin runs back to his starting point and then back to Falk, serpentining all the way. But yeah, my wife and I were both saying "zig-zag, boy!" as he ran to his death.
I mean… he’s a kid. A kid who’s been held by a crazy psychopath torturing everyone. I’d be surprised if he thought of it personally. The show aged everyone up, so I don’t know exactly how old he was meant to be. In the books he was like 6.
You get mad at irrelevant stuff like that, but ignore the terrible writing and how they ruined all the characters after season 4?
@@AverageAlien Why should he talk about that when the freaking video he is responding to is about the scene he IS actually commenting on. You need to let go of your hate a bit and relax.
As a traditional archer and bowyer, it's so relieving to finally see and listen to an archer expert that actually knows what they're talking about! Thank you Griz! Can't tell you how many times I've stopped a video because the expert says someone's "shooting off the wrong side of the bow."
How do you get involved in archery as an adult. The only time I ever shot an arrow was when I did archery in summer camp as a kid. I think I was 10. I think I was ok at it actually
@@SE-gs6gd I'd recommend finding a local club. There are different kinds too. Traditional archery, Olympic archery, hunting, etc. Talk to some people before you buy anything. The last thing you want to do is spend a lot of money on something you end up not liking. Making contacts and asking if there's different bows you can try out is very helpful. Even if you figure out what you want and there's no club that matches it, doesn't hurt to know the people there. I'm a traditional archer, I shoot only bows I've made that are primitive. I don't really hunt anymore and most of my shooting is stump shooting. Yet I have friends who hunt with compounds and friends who are big into Olympic recurve.
@@ainesherlock9448 thanks!
@@SE-gs6gd I started as an adult! Really how I started was watching a lot of RUclips videos of respected guys like this and reading some stuff off reddit. Once I felt somewhat confident and thought I could have a decent conversation with an expert I went to a local club and they helped me the rest of the way.
@@PlaygroundTactix I'm gonna look into it. Thx for all the advice
"try no longer to be holding the string" is really what we do in traditional Japanese archery (kyudo), so I was fascinated to hear that. We don't use bare fingers for pulling the string, but a deerskin glove that has a hard notch in it, and of course the arrow goes to the right side of the bow. The bow is very simple, and usually made of bamboo; there is no shelf, just the top of the basal part of the left thumb for the arrow. The bow is held with the bare left hand and only three fingers; the index finger is free at the top. When the arrow is released the body is expanded and the bow twists within the left hand so that the string hits the back of the forearm. Difficult to describe but I am sure if anyone is interested they can find a youtube demonstration.
"try no longer to be holding the string" is also alfa and Omega of Olympic archery... even with compound when you have realese in your hand you kinda try to let it shoot itself without you.... even when you sniper you dont "pull" the trigger but you keep tension on the trigger... all the same...
There's a video of a Japanese archery competition and the winner was this girl whose name I'm not going to try and remember.
The movement from nock, draw and release was poetry in motion
I should have mentioned a few more things. First is that hitting the target is not the point of kyudo, and if the archer thinks about the target the arrow will never meet it. Second is that the bow is not held tightly, one has to think of holding an egg, and the notch of the hand between the forefinger and thumb is used to push the bow rather than hold it. There should be no grip tension. This is how the bow is able to twist in the hand and the string meet the forearm after release, because there is no actual grip on the bow. The binding of the bow is made of leather and wood ash is used to make it less slippery, and yet more slippery (this I cannot explain without actually showing, sorry). Third, the expansion of the body to pull the arrow into the release position. It is a bit like hugging a tree and is very difficult and non-intuitive. Fourth, the release of the arrow is the absolute most difficult part of kyudo. The notch in the glove that holds the string is curved, so as the body expands the glove actually twists a little until there is not enough notch to hold the string, and it releases. You will notice that when release occurs, the whole body expands and the arms come outwards so that the archer's arms are horizontal and the chest expanded, so the tension in the body is also released. The notch is thus paramount to how release occurs, and it is incredibly rude therefore to look at the notch of another archer's glove. Lastly, there is also long distance kyudo, and in a similar way to the western archery explained in the video, the arm is not raised; only after the arrow position is confirmed then the archer moves the whole upper body at the waist, so that the basic technique remains the same. Best wishes from Japan !
@@ET-cj8jo Wow thank you for commenting all of that. That was very beautifully explained. I’ve only been into archery the last few months but I love it so much. I’m going to try it your way today when I get home. I’m pretty excited
I've had a few shows with Junior bow.
I've been just slipping my fingers off...
The actor who played Hawkeye, Jeremy Renner, actually learned how to shoot properly with an Olympic archer before he played him. But when he got there they said that he needed to shoot the theatric movie way to look more showy.
thats lame
a superhero looking unrealistic im shocked
*Jeremy renner
Sadly I can see that being true. They were already getting “showy cash cow” with the MCU. Which is really sad. Most of the actors were really invested in their roles and wanted to add depth and research into it
Well Hawkeye is the best Archer in comics so obviously for a film like Avengers they need to film something a real archer can't do
Of course looks great on camera but in the real world it's nearly impossible do the things he do
As a hunter he’s ABSOLUTELY right on the hunger games scene, if you spot a deer but don’t have a shot you want to wait for it to move on it’s own or if possible very slowly and quietly move to a better vantage point, deer will bolt if they smell something abnormal, throwing rocks is just going to make it run away
She did exactly what you proposed before the scene shown. As the deer smelled her she changed position. And it was not a very loud sound which could have happened naturally in this place. And as he shouts it bolts away.
@@reinhard8053 too bad we didn’t see the scene prior that would have added excellent context but it’s not only the noise but the context of the noise that makes deer jump (or not) a falling rock which is more or less sudden is going to put the deer on high alert as it would scream “predator” (or at least the possibility of one) this is why moving during hunting is such a pain because deer run off at the sound of crunching leaves or broken twigs. Cinematically it was a great shot especially since the goal was not to make a realistic hunting scene but when you know what you’re looking at it’s hard to ignore the mistakes in the filming process
it's easier to farm the things and slaughter them industrially.
the biggest sin is that she does olympic style archery using olympic anchor points and such....whilst hunting outdoors....
@@reinhard8053 I've heard of some hunters that will try the rock thing in very, very specific scenarios (usually when they are above a bedded deer and something is blocking there view of the deer, toss a rock down towards the deer and hope it gets him to stand up so you can shoot) but as someone who has quite extensive experience bow hunting for mule deer tossing rocks around or making any kind of noise at all is something I would avoid at all costs. More than likely, if you throw a rock towards a deer he is gonna bolt and you'll probably never see him again. The best quality a bow hunter can have is patience and tossing rocks at deer is the epitome of impatient hunting. If killing a deer is going to be the only way you get to eat for a few days I promise you won't be throwing rocks around, you'll be quietly and patiently waiting for a better shot opportunity.
Orlando Bloom in his role as Legolas trained for months and there's a few videos of his excellent shooting prowess on youtube. He could shoot absurdly well and very quickly, and the bow he used in the movie was not a prop. His stancing was his own personal style, and proved exceptionally accurate. So despite him not using "proper form" according to Jim, I disagree strongly about his rating as a fellow archer who had been shooting for 12-15 years with a similar bow to the one used by the character in question. Each person has their own form and positioning. Not to mention that during that scene Legolas had been shooting arrows continuously for several hours as well as fighting with his blades, and as such must have been significantly tired. As such, he would likely attempt to alleviate this fatigue and maximize his chance of hitting at such a long range by doing a draw that requires less effort to hold back (with his arm slightly farther back and up, to use his shoulder and upper arm to brace the shot and aim with less energy). The fact that Wonder Woman's scenes got a higher rating is almost laughable. lol
And not to mention... "We're going to see the Elves!" They are Elves and its been argued over and over again about their archery prowess and that they are strong, have better eyesight and reaction times compared to humans.
part of it is the angle of the camera and how many times they tried. if they shoot 200 times this scene. you can bet the editors will take the best looking shoot and not the most accurate shot
Maybe because they are doing things that he can't , and that's why he low scores lol
So we have some Lord of the Rings fans I 👀.
@@Cacophony314 these comments are making me 😆
Regarding the Hawkeye scene in Avengers, two things. I had never noticed before but he's actually looking into a mirrrored glass skyscraper across the street when he takes the blind shot. The audience can't see it, but he can actually see the reflection of his target there. Also, Hawkeye is a magical superhero who never misses at anything, so Magic.
On the Legolas scene at Helm's Deep, Legolas consistently fires Bodkin tips which is the right choice for piercing armor. It looks like he's firing copper tips though which is a bit weird, but it's maybe some fantasy metal instead.
The whole thing about Hawkeye is that he doesn't have magic. He is just a highly skilled assassin like Black widow. But yeah he does use some technologically enhanced trick arrows.
Hawkeye doesn’t have magic
Hawkeye isn’t even magical
Hawkeye no magical
no mage hawk guy
For Hawkeye's backwards over-the-shoulder shot, I had always assumed he was tracking the target's reflection in the glass of a skyscraper in front of him.
And they did show him picking up spent arrows out of bodies earlier in the scene.
I think the goal of that clip was to show he was so good he didn't even need to look at a target to hit it(we could argue that he heard the target and could pinpoint exactly where it was). It's usually the most simple explanation being the correct one. You see it in movies all the time, exaggerating things because it just *looks* cool on the screen.
@@huldu kinda like a superhero
@@huldu Exactly. Hawkeye's superpower is accuracy. he is mutant,just doesnt know it.
@@MsKeylas Or, if you go by this one scene from the comics, the dude is always practicing almost nonstop. He was explaining to Spiderman that he can't ever stop because, unlike all the other Avengers with superpowers and abilities, he's just a guy who is very accurate with a bow and arrow. In his own (paraphrased) words, if he misses he becomes just another guy who can shoot arrows. He NEEDS to practice so that he NEVER misses.
@@Profile__1 another good point
I'm surprised he wasn't shown Avatar. The na'vi shoot inverse of humans and I think it would have been interesting to hear his opinion on that
@Felicidad Greene
12:19 isn’t that what they showed? Inverse shooing, aka Mediterranean draw? Shadeversity has an extremely detailed video on it where he shows some other archery content creators using very high poundage war bows (130lbs) and they easily are able to pull the arrow back all the way, problem. Is with the Mediterranean draw you sacrifice a little bit of accuracy but during war that’s acceptable but it isn’t anymore for competition shooting
@@saltyark7564no no in avatar they draw with their knuckles towards their face with their pinky’s up
@Salty Ark Shadiversity talks about experimenting with shooting on the draw side (right side for right handers) of the bow for the Mediterranean style of draw, which is typically shot on the non-draw side. This video is talking about shooting on the draw side for eastern styles of archery (eg. different thumb draws). Shooting on the draw side of the bow is normal for thumb draw but is not normal for Mediterranean draw. So what us described in this video is different than what Shad was trying to do.
@@Intranetusa ahhh ok I missed that little nuance
@@saltyark7564 The Mediterranean draw is referring to the finger position on the draw arm, not the side of the bow the arrow is shot from. In Western archery, Mediterranean draw (one finger above the arrow and two below) is conventionally taught, though some people (myself included) prefer three under. But if you're going to shoot with the arrow on the right side of the bow as in Asiatic archery, you should be using a thumb draw. The reason Asian traditions use the right side is because it's faster and more stable on horseback
The hawkeye shot where he doesn't look, he's actually using the reflections from surrounding buildings, so basically using a mirror like you said
I also think that Hawkeye may have seen the Chitauri Chariot from far away ( "I see better from a distance."), did some mental calculations based on the speed of the target, and figured out how long it would take for the target to come into range in order to make accurate shot.
In other words, by collecting data ( flight patterns, approximate speed, etc.), Hawkeye could easily make a highly educated guess as to where the Chitauri where going to be when he made his shot.
@@jonathangreenlees4772 "easily".....
@@jonathangreenlees4772 thats exactly what i thought he either saw it before or just sideaways and calculate the travel , something ridiculoussly hard but not impossible although about the shooting form im not sure
@@roopskee17 Well, at some point one has to assume that super heroes do have super powers. For example, I didn't understand all the explanations, but the Amazon are super-humanly strong. Even a “normal” one, m who isn’t a demi-god like Diana, can easily catch a falling pole that would crush a baseline human. I assume that this this would totally influence how they build and use bows.
@@peterbruells28 the funny thing was the expert is comparing to real life, so amazons being fictitious literally falls outside of the scope in which this video is operating.
With Hawkeye, the MCU doesn't really talk about his abilities, but he has exceptional eyesight hence his name and he may have been looking at a reflection in one of the glass skyscrapers when he made the "blind" shot.
This is from the Marvel Fandom Web site, About the Comics (Earth 616) Version
Master Archer: Barton has trained himself to become a master archer specializing in the use of regular bows, longbows, compound bows, and crossbows with near-perfect accuracy. He is capable of firing multiple arrows at a single target in a few seconds, hitting multiple targets in a few quick strokes, and directly hit small targets in the greatest of distances. Barton has even been known to hit an apple in the center of it. He practices a minimum of two hours per day to keep his skills honed.[22][8]
Peak Human Sight: Barton possesses extraordinary eyesight.[8] His eyes are more acute than normal humans.[105][106] His flawless sight allows him to perfectly aim his targets without even looking.[107]
Peak Human Condition: Clint's body functions at the peak levels of an athlete, with exceptional strength, endurance, speed, and stamina.[22]
Peak Human Strength: Clint's physical strength are in peak human levels.[31] He demonstrated the strength to pull his 250 lb. bow with ease.[31]
While This Is What they have on the MCU (Earth 199999)
Abilities
Extreme Targeting: He possesses an intuitive aptitude for targeting that is reflected highly in his ability to hit distant targets, and is also useful in identifying and tracking one target among many.
Marksmanship: Clinton Barton is a skilled marksman with an exceptional ability in archery. His aim is such that he is able to send an arrow into a moving targets with pin point accuracy. He is versatile with the kinds of missile weapons he employs, and possesses an exceptional accuracy with thrown darts. He has also stated that he scored eighteen holes-in-one while playing golf.
I don't buy that he saw it in a mirror like effect. He "heard" it and could pinpoint exactly where it was. It was made to just look cool on the screen.
or he may even just heard
Still not realistic but i get your point. Super Hero movies aren't realistic. You won't get Flash speed by smelling some chemicals, of get the strength of a spider from a bite from a radioactive spider.
@@musehivision1864 Dang it. Time to put down my tank of irradiated arachnids...
0:28 Scene from "Game of Thrones" S6E9 (2016) 9/10
2:20 Scene from "Rambo III" (1988) 8/10
4:15 Scene from "Hawkeye" S1E1 (2021) 5/10
5:50 Scene from "Wonder Woman" (2017) 5/10
7:44 Scene from "Brave" (2012) 10/10
9:51 Scene from "The Avengers" (2012) 4/10
11:34 Scene from "Robin Hood" (2018) 4/10
14:23 Scene from "The Hunger Games" (2012) 7/10
17:26 Scene from "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" (2002) 4/10
18:18 Scene from "War of the Arrows" (2011) 9/10
Coolios
No Green Arrow 😢 you have failed this video
@@DJ11213 facts
@@DJ11213 cringe
The thing with Katniss and The Hunger Games shooting style is that she learned from her father, and likely adopted whatever form he used. We can assume that it comes down from another archer, and that's how they have this form that isn't ideal for the situation, but they're doing what they know. The only other people we see knowing archery in the series are Career Tributes, who would have trained in an academy style, again probably closer to Olympic style than a hunting scenario. Let's face it, if the events that preceeded the series happened and someone who has sporting form and has never hunted is out in the woods with their bow, they're going to shoot as trained. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't.
Forgetting about Gale lol
@@hippo4262I’m confused by this comment but forgetting about Gale in what way? He doesn’t use a bow, Katniss taught him a bit but he’s not that good at it. His hunting technique is traps and snares, unless I’m very confused with what you’re referring to
@@clover2739 I think I was talking about the bit where they say the only other people we see knowing archery are the careers
@@hippo4262 I guess, but Gale would be easily forgotten about since we don’t really see him use a bow since that’s not his weapon
Hawkeye's whole shtick is that he's has inhuman ability to be able to either calculate or something for shots that NEVER miss. So it does make sense he's able to do what he does, with the context of comic canon.
🤓
Oh so Hawkeye IS superhuman... it's just that he looks normal compared to all the other avengers
@@Kaiwala He's not supposed to be a superhuman. He's just extremely talented.
he just a hot mess🤣 as character i mean
@@Kaiwala nope, not superhuman but insanely skilled and talented
Something he doesn't point out but is a super good detail from the animators at pixar in the Brave shot. You can see merida's grip as she starts the shot is all held in the web of her hand, small detail but shows the footwork they did in studying and getting reference for the shot, it's something alot of the live action shots even miss.
She is kind of over gripping the bow. You really only need the meat of the base of the thumb to be in contact with the grip.
from what I heard a while back, Brave animators actually consulted expert traditional archers to get all the little details correct.
@@adammathers4879 yeah but it’s not terrible I shoot similar to that. But with a Compound because I hunt mule deer.
Interesting that there are no scenes from arguably the longest running show about an archer in recent memory, Arrow on the CW. While like Hawkeye it may tend towards fantasy more, it also had more characters that were archers than any similar TV show.
Yep that's what I thought.
I had to come here after watching to make sure someone else noticed that was missing
This video is about traditional archery and Arrow is using compound bow. Yes it does look like recurve but it is Oneida Kestrel compound bow
@@ObelixCMM If that's the reason, why include Rambo?
I know right! I was hoping that would be in here. Love that show lol
One thing a lot of movies always forget is people would never have shouted "Fire!" when telling archers to shoot their arrows.
Curious, what would they say otherwise?
@@feiasef8319 Loose
Unless you travelled back in time with a chainsaw and a shotgun.😜
@@feiasef8319 they actually wouldn't have said anything. having the archers wait with drawn arrows would just tire them out, and launching arrows in volleys wasn't very strategic. the whole firing in volleys thing was actually based on musket volleys. archers would just be trusted to shoot when they knew they could hit the target, or something to that effect.
@@brigidlynch2807not entirely true. English longbowmen had commands, and the command to fire was “loose.” Sometimes “shoot” was used elsewhere.
In Hawkeye's defense on the no look shot: You mentioned a trick shot in the mirror. Hawkeye is standing on the top of a building in New York. His superpower is supposedly superhuman eyesight, reflexes, and spatial awareness. I think it's totally plausible he used the window of a building as the mirror to pull off that shot.
I haven't rewatched that scene to see if there is an off camera building, but if there is, I would reason that's how he did it.
Exactly what I was thinking, Clint could 100% do a mirror shot ;)
I’m an archer and no, the mirror would have to be lined up in a very specific way like the mirror, you and the target would have to be in a straight line, I don’t know how to explain my English is not good, but it is not realistic
@@luiscontreras767 It's a superhero movie. When did they ever let realism limit their heroes? That scene has one single reason to exists and it's to cement just how superhuman Clint's spatial awareness is. He's seen the target and extrapolated it's trajectory and to place the arrow where the target will be he doesn't even have to see it. It's as unreal as just about everything else in that movie, but given the setting it did it's job. It's a bit like what is often called instinctive shooting which you can learn, but will never be as accurate as using regular sight systems. It does however make for some great scenes in movies. Remember all those cowboy movies where the revolver men will draw and shoot from the hip and always hit just what they are aiming for, being it a coin, a candle, a gun or the heart of the bad guy? While not totally impossible for a single shot the show of repeatable perfect accuracy is so bogus.
Also Hawkeye goes back and collects as many arrow shafts as he can after shooting them. That’s why he always seems to have unlimited arrows.
@@luiscontreras767 So, you claim to have the super senses and reflexes of Hawkeye? That'd be a big claim. There could have been multiple buildings, or one at just the right angle, etc. All I'm saying is it is plausible.
I thought a nice little touch in "Brave" is when she took that last shot, as she releases the arrow the fletch puts a little scrape on her cheek as the arrow leaves the string. I thought that was great attention to a minor detail, added some realism to the character.
Brave scored a 10/10, another score on the team who worked years to hope precisely present everything realistic of the film
It makes me so incredibly happy that my childhood favorite movie got a 10 out of 10! Pixar always does it’s research, from historical dress to hair physics!
This was one of the better episodes of this. Guy was really knowledgeable and did a great job adding tid-bits of info not just "this was good, this was bad". Have this guy again.
I love that all the war and battle experts (generalized) have given the GoT long-range archery scene a very low score, where the archer expert is like, "Naw, seems legit, also his bow is suited to the task." Put 'em in a room together, I wanna see 'em fight it out. :D
A long room.... with bows. :)
Thats the difference. He uses bows and practise with them and know there are different types and styles that offer different effects and stuff. The battle experts etc for the most part are guys who only read about those things in documents and believe what ever is writen to be the hard truth and dont give much credit for inovation.But hey GoT battles were a mess all around , not a single one had actual good tactics they were only for aestetics. I like that the Rickon scene gets credit for being possible cuz of the bow and archery style used by Ramzay.
Those movies never have crops or proper siege tactics
While its possible, the criticism isn't usually the equipment, its how he lands the shot after missing a ton of times at close range.
When you are missing at close range and the target is gaining distance while you still haven't zeroed in on the target, it makes hitting the target at greater distances laughably hard.
The perfect analogy (for some gun shooters) is the following: imagine shooting an AR-15 with base iron sights and missing at 100 yards. You get a small sense of where you should shoot for the next shot but surprise, I moved the target back to 250 yards. You shoot again and you miss. Not a surprise, its further out so your frame of reference for landing the shot at 100y is now moot. So you wanna try again. Surprise again... now its 500 yards.
Ramsay hitting that shot is the equivalent of you missing all those shots and then by some divine luck hitting a 1000 yard shot in a single try. Possible? Sure? Likely? No.
@@МихаилРадулов-й4т Battle of Kingslanding had some good tactics I thought (feel free to correct me), but I agree especially the later on seasons (after 4) you could clearly tell the battles were to be more cinematic than strategic, which was enjoyable for most of them IMO the only one that sacrificed way too much strategy to the point it felt so unrealistic I couldn't even enjoy was the last one with the white walkers.
Nice to see a Western archer give Eastern archery its props and not wave his hands dismissively.
So true, I bet those other western archers would get a lesson from eastern archers since some of those archery like Kyūdō is Japanese archery martial arts that is far superior than todays since they use traditional bow and now attachments to make them cheat
@@Jeffro5564 From the ancient Scythians through to the Mongols and Tatars that style of archery replaced whatever was there wherever it went from Korea to Persia to Hungary.
That was Mongolian archery at the end of that movie there.
@@Jeffro5564 Absolute cringe... "Superior"? No. It's just different. There are plenty of western trad shooters out there too, they aren't superior either. I use a recurve with no attachments and shoot off the shelf myself, that's the style I enjoy, if others want to use compound bows or counter weights, rests, sights or whatever else than that is fine. No choice in style is superior, especially not because it's "traditional". Mad daft.
yuppp, honestly if it works it works
I love that Merida gets 10/10. It's because animators visually study the heck out of whatever they are learning to animate and don't need to worry about things like actual physical ability of the actor, while the live-action directors mostly want something that looks cool on screen.
You know, maybe Hawkeye has gotten a bad rap this whole time, "he's just an archer." He is a superhero. No regular person could shoot like him. Hyper spatial awareness and body kinematics expertise lets him do impossible shots.
Yeah, Thor isn't realistic either.
My one thought with Hawkeye was that he might have been using the windows of a building to do a mirror trick shot.
@@gullinvarg like the line he said on an earlier scene to Fury, "I see better from a distance" or something like that.
Not only with bows, also with firearms, and all kinds of projectiles
@@happyvirus6590 And the guy shot 18 in a round of golf.
I love the way that scene from brave just exudes sheer confidence of like “Look how amazing our archery is. Get on out level.”
18:24 that bamboo guide is from Korean archery and is called a tongah and is used to fire those short arrows called aegisal or pyeonjeon. They were used for the reasons stated but also because without the tongah they were useless for enemy archers and couldnt be fired back, similar to the the Roman pilum and the wax mounted arrowheads of Europe
For the Lord of the Rings scene, I don’t think he realized that elves have super human strength, so it wouldn’t need to be a light poundage bow.
Also Orlando Bloom was already a competent Archer before I getting the role of Legolas Then put in a heap of time practising …. There’s some footage in the making of lord of the rings showing him hitting targets repeatedly at long distance with Bow he uses in the movies
He also tells the archers just before that to aim for the neck and under the arms
Same with the WW scene
Keep in mind, that this shot is from the top of the Helms Klam wall to the button, to stop the running orc! This explains the high elbow, because the target is 10m below!
@@DUCKYGAMINGau In a lot of shots, he's pulling back a light stunt bow and the arrows are CGI.
And the less said about surfing a shield down stone stairs, the better.
The one thing that pissed me off in Hawkeye, the whole bell tower falling because of an arrow. If it fell because of that, it was structurally not sound and she did them a favor. It should have been fixed long ago as it was a danger to the public.
YEAH! The local parson ought to have had at least the occasional inspection done!
Don't let that lady anywhere near Pisa, I have a bad feeling.
Of course it's not structurally sound, that's why they don't ring the bell anymore. In many bell towers today they have installed a speaker system to do the bells job as they can't be rung anymore due to concern over damages and many are considered historically significant, which they then used in the show as a joke.
@@recreationxx yeah, but really that easy to bring down? It should have been destroyed already if it was that fragile. She did them a favor.
@blessings watch endgame
I haven't even watched this yet but feel the urge to express how thrilled I am to see Grizzly Jim doing this - I clicked immediately once I saw the thumbnail, I really love this guy and his videos.
Thank you 😊
HE RESPONDED AHHH
Who's that?
@@ArcheryAdventures Hey, thanks for responding! Made my day a little brighter. 😄
Based Grizzly Jim 👑
As a former recurve archer (or olympic bow) I really enjoyed watching this. This guy sure knows what he is talking about and I agree on most of it. Each archer has a custom bow and no one has exact the same equipment. Carbon arrows can indeed be 'Robin Hooded' as I have seen so myself. I shot at 25 meters and got 3 bronze medals from national championship, so it's nice to see this kind of video's.
@@stephenjones7090 The problem with experts is they only know their way
@@stephenjones7090 The point he made though was that Robin had just been told for the first time to switch and he immediately got better by switching. It takes time to get used to doing something the opposite to how you have been always doing it, even if the technique works better that way.
Youngtusk. As a total non archer I have often wondered why no one seems to attach the flight feathers in a spiral to put spin on the arrow. Would this be of any benefit, or would it not work? I'd love someone to explain this to a total novice.
@@stephenjones7090 Haven't seen Robin Hood yet. So I cannot have a opinion about that show. But most archers are only left or right handed and cannot shoot both ways. If you can, that is a rare thing especially on a horse!
@@keithparker5103 The thing you have to consider is the part when the arrow leaves the bow. If you put the feathers wrong, it can drastically change the flight path of the arrow. Arrows mostly don't spin in the air, they wobble in a wave pattern. Look it up in slow motion arrow clips on RUclips. You don't want your arrow to go spinning because it only strays from target. Especially if you are shooting at 70 or 90 meters! Only in Hollywood movies you see a close-up of arrows spinning for drastic effects. Just like shooting flaming arrows. That's only done in movies and totally useless.
The only point I would make in regards to Hawkeye is that, as a comic book character, he has perfect spatial awareness, which means he can see a moving object and in his mind, track it's most likely trajectory, which means that for all intents and purposes, he can see a target behind him, unless it was Crazy Ivan-ing, of course.
One of my favorite little fun facts in history is that archeologists that have found grave sites of medieval battlefields were able to identify the skeletons of the archers by the greater bone density in the upper torso which signified greater muscle mass in the muscle groups most commonly used in archery.
That's so cool! Do you mind sharing the source? The fact that you can change you body by what you do it's just amazing to me!! And I love that fact, thanks for sharing it!!
@@francescafrancesca3554 Do not go too much with it if you do not want to look like body builder instead of Wonder Woman :D And only in with your upper body, what can bring a bit of unbalance for "figure"... One of my friends had to come back down to lighter bow - in the morning she pulled up her hair in front of mirror and noticed her muscles... She screamed and then never went over 18kg with bow...
Way to be gross. Shut up dude. Let people do what they want with their own body. Women don't exist for the male gaze.
@@classicambo9781 say that to biology
@@classicambo9781 If it was answer to me... I'm the woman and archer in one, so it would be totally funny and out of whole target and few meters away, not only bullseye :P At least according all female archers I ever met and know, with that result you wouldn't be pretty even for your own gaze... But if you want look like half transformed Hulk from cartoons (what is the effect if you won't take care of your lower half - but it's not the archery), why not? Your body, your look, not my monkeys, not my circus. But first you should to know what are you talking about to talk about it at all :D
The last movie with the Korean archer is from a fantastic movie called War of the Arrows and he shot that guy in the leg to use him as bait for the guy's allies. I highly recommend watching it.
I wanted to see him comment on the curving of the path of the shot though
I loved the curved shots in that film! Was hoping they would talk about the realism of those scenes
@@0MrFreckles0 he doesnt talk about it because he isnt knowledgeable in that area. But curving the arrow is real. For simplicity's sake watch Lars Anderson do it. Like him or not, he is able to do it.
@@anwarkhan1818 lars Anderson can curve arrows.
@@BestMods168 wow thanks! Didn't know
I like how you described Archer's Paradox. Many archers really don't know the definition. I really enjoyed your various explanations and reasonings in this video. Pretty much spot on.
The last one he was using a Tong-ha which used to be a Korean state secret back then. In the movie he had to use it as the arrow was broken, which was a common practice for Korean archers at the time. They'd take a broken arrow, sharpen it, and shoot it back at their enemies.
Of note, do remember that although a large body of archery falls under what is considered "western archery" and is considered "correct," there ARE other forms of archery that are very different and by no means less effective. For example, the thumb release method (also used in Korea) has little to no archer's paradox and you can shoot a whole lot more straighter. The Comanche shot with a pinch grip and to get around paradox they only cut one nock in the top limb of the bow so the string ran diagonal instead of straight. Carving a grip in the handle could make it behave almost like a center shot bow and so a Comanche could ride up within mere feet of a buffalo, fire a fully powered shot very accurately on a dime without worrying about paradox wildly affecting the shot placement so close.
"Little to no archer's paradox"
I find that highly unlikely, if not outright impossible. The archer's paradox is caused by 1) the arrow being off-center from the travel of the string to the center of the bow, and 2) the force of the released string on the rear of the arrow, inertia, and friction of the arrow against the bow causing the arrow to compress and bend under pressure, creating an oscillation in the arrow.
The only way to eliminate the archer's paradox is if there were a hole in the middle of the bow to shoot the arrow through so that it was in a straight line with the travel of the string. Even then, the force of compression would likely still cause some oscillation.
Knocking arrows out of the air doesn't always work. We had a game where people were fighting with foamed pipe swords and someone brought a homemade bow and tennis ball arrows. Large shields and armor weren't allowed so the bow ended up being *very* difficult to approach without getting owned. People started opting for more maneuverable weapons and they did hit arrows with them, but most of the time, it would either halfway snap the shaft or damage the flights, and you'd still get hit, it would just be a lot less comfortable.
It didn't help that the Archer decided to climb a tree and shoot from on top of it...
Archer knew what (s)he was doing. :)
it helped... the archer. And it's safe to assume that helping himself is the archer's goal.
that sounds so fun. i wanna play combat with toy bows
Actually watched a movie yesterday where the guy did hit the arrow and it went down into his leg. It certainly saved his life, but in no way is it a perfect solution to be shot at with arrows.
Yo can I join? Sounds rad
In 'War of the Arrows' he was actually using an enemy broken arrow, and when drawing the arrow it was short so the pointy end was just hanging, he split half a bamboo and used that as a guide for a full length of pull.
Improvise, adapt, overcome
there was also a tactic to shoot shorter arrows that way for a simple reason: if the enemy didn't have the same simple contraption, the arrows you flung towards them couldn't be reused against you.
It kinda warms my heart whenever movies go out of their way to get it right
One thing to Rambo: as far as I remember he had the bow disjointed for travelling. In this scene he puts it together. I don't think you can do that so easily without tools. Normally compound bows are handled with a massive press to change strings. You never take it apart for transport.
Well he is a body builder, a survivalist, and a weapons expert.
@@redrick8900 ..and in first place a ficitional movie character 🤣🤣🤣
@@ivanhajko2660 Wrong. Stop trying to look smart. You are terrible at it.
There are portable cable bow presses - but you would want to use them as a last resort (or if you were in the middle of nowhere with a disassembled bow).
@@chrisgorman1652 I even built one myself, but I never had a good feeling using it. Yes it is possible, but nothing done that fast. And a modern compound bow is not that big anyways.
Hope to see a part 2 that included some scenes from "Arrow" and "Smallville". This guy was so cool to watch!
Smallville? I wasn't really all that into the series but I watched a lot of it. Don't particularly remember any archery being in it. Care to give some pointers on when, where and whom was involved?
@@blahorgaslisk7763 Smallville had a much more comic accurate Green Arrow (although I personally like the darker Arrowverse version). If I remember correctly he does use the crossbow more often, but there are scenes of him shooting with a bow.
@@caitlynskiff2001 Ah thank you. Either I missed those episodes or it, like most of the series, slipped my mind.
@@caitlynskiff2001 yeah, recently finished watching Season 10 (and been going through it all over again), and Oliver, in Smallville, alternated between a crossbow and traditional bow and arrow, throughout the show. If I'm not mistaken, he even taught Mia how to shoot. I remember him teaching Chloe how to shoot...
I wonder, with Arrow, if the water hitting exercise was "accurate", or any good. It's from Season 2, when Oliver was on Lian Yu, and Shado was training him, while they were with Slade. Oliver, in present day, then passes on the training to Roy, later on in Season 2, after Roy had been injected with Mirakuru. In fact, it would be cool if the expert guy (forgot his name) could review Oliver's training session with Helena when he's shooting at tennis balls.
@@marsjokes I also would like to know of the practicing shooting with tennis balls would be a good way to practice.
Grizzly Jim: "See I'd be zigging and zagging"
Whole GOT fandom: "Yeah, that's what we said." -__-
underrated comment
A note on the arrow on one side or the other of the bow. That's *not* a Western vs Eastern thing. If you look through Medieval European sources you find tons of references to archers in Europe shooting with arrows on either side of the bow. The preference for shooting on one side only is a modern thing, likely originating in the Victorian era, when archery became a sport with rules and regulations to it, rather than something used for survival in either war or necessity hunting.
If you aim along the arrow, you kind of need the arrow on the inside of the bow. It's slower to thread it that way, but in a competition you don't need speed. And most of the time probably not in combat either, since the difference isn't significant if you're practiced enough. If it works for you it works for you, and medieval people were practical and didn't confirm too hard to standards.
agree lars anderson has some good vids on the subject . when ur life is at stake skills like this were a part of life .
also slingers are some badasses too
@@mrwascallyt9865 What I've seen from Lars is mostly just trick shooting, which, while impressive, is not the same kind of technique you'd use in a battle. However, from my understanding he does aim instinctively, which is very useful in battle, and gives enough precision for the purpose.
Slings are underrated, although hard to master.
@@AnotherDuck For a "fantasy" archer like Legolas or Hawkeye, Lars' techniques look quite good whilst being possible, although I am certain that he shoots a lower-poundage bow.
@@christopherpie8559 Well, fantasy archers are generally trick shooters with low-poundage bows.
People have no idea how difficult all this is. I once participated in a course that took place on a meadow. We hit almost nothing. Most of the time the arrow landed in the meadow and, believe it or not, the arrows kept travelling underneath the surface of the wet meadow. So we soon were busy trying to find lost arrows and we only found most of them.
Really? Huh.. I remember being alright at it although maybe that's because I had real instructors
Over the years I've lost. Almost all of my arrows. Lmao.
@@SnapShooter1969 Difficulty is subjective. Considering years (and money) was historically spent training archers, the general opinion definitely isn't that archery is easy.
@@SnapShooter1969 it's easy to learn to shoot consistently with a light bow at 10 yards, sure. It's not easy to be accurate at 30 metres with a heavy bow however
@@SnapShooter1969 For a beginner, yes, it's much easier to draw and hold a light bow with little shaking
In “War of the Arrows”, the reason he is using such a short arrow is more for the reason that it can’t be shot back at him by the enemy, which is a tactic that was used by several groups of people.
Unless they also used an overdraw device...
@@markusayasse99 The short arrow or 애깃살 was a military secret in Korea. They tried to limit the usage as the Jurchens and Japanese could copy the technique.
similar tactics to the use of roman pilum ... it was designed to break after impact so it couldn't be thrown back at the legions, but at the same time it could be harvested after a victorious battle and repaired, and re-used.
@@Hayan_Yeou and we actually did copy it (I'm Japanese)
14:52 I like how he acknowledged the fact that Olympic form of archery is Great for target but yeh situation in hunting scenario is completely different . I think that clarifies many of my doubts about archery.
Go watch Lars Anderson he is one of the only people in the world actually rediscovering traditional archery and not just using it as a title and still using modern techniques like the guy does here in this video.
@@jbudbuds4484 Yeah, the dude in the video mentioned the guy. And he also mentioned that Anderson is just going more of an Eastern route. Not specifically "More traditional"
@@L4sket He said that but it is worth noting that medieval sources do suggest that archers did shoot on the right side (right handed) so whilst many people now say that's Eastern style there isn't any evidence to support that, and being on the right makes for faster reloads and since they learnt at the time for the purpose of war, quicker reloads would be a priority. So I don't know if its really fair to say he's going for a hybrid, because like I said most western sources also shot on the right side, and it isn't actually much harder if at all.
I respect how nice and forgiven he is. Especially with some of those examples that made him die on the inside.
That's one thing I love about animation/art, the dedication of the artists and how thoroughly they research to portray something accurately as possible. *chef kiss* wonferful
I highly recommend Grizzly Jim's videos to anyone that's interested in archery. They taught me basically everything I needed and wanted to know when I just started out! :)
He was one of archers who I watched as well when I just got into instinctive archery. Very humble.
Also NUSensei, he is great for beginners.
Grizzly Jim is the GOAT
My only complaint; Legolas was shooting at an Orc that was roughly 50 feet below him so his "high elbow" was just a reflection of his whole torso leaning forwards - which should be accurate as you explained in a previous scene...
He's looking for the elbow to be parallel to the torso no matter the position you're firing. The elbow wouldn't go up without the rest of the body going down an equal amount but in that case they moved a bit independently of each other
@@xavmanisdabestest unless you have a crenalation that goes up to your chest. At that point you would have to shoot awkwardly to angle it because it would be impossible to angle your body.
This was really validating. I started archery when I was around 13. i'm mixed handed and I think it created the mixed method for me that you described. I held the bow in a right handed manner but i shot in a left handed manner. I was chastised for "doing it wrong" for a long time and was made to shoot fully right handed but i found i was more accurate shooting it mixed method. So thanks, I feel better knowing that how i did it was okay.
He says "mixed method", but historical depictions of archers almost always had the arrow on the right regardless of the draw type (three-finger or thumb or pinch). So maybe modern archery, as Lars Anderson did point out (while providing as much historical and mathematical accuracy as possible), has it wrong and we're being taught something which is not the original archery at all. I can see reasons why nocking left would benefit, such as tilting excessively, but I always found it illogical and uncomfortable nocking on the left consistently. I will give him the fact that adjusting takes time, but for me, swapping from left to right took me 3 shots to adjust my aim and form both, but drastically improved my accuracy and speed in only three shots. In the instance of Robin Hood, Lars Anderson was the foremost expert and what Lars does isn't playing around, it's legit tactics from historical text (and yes there can be exaggerations in there because people exaggerate, lol). Lifting the wheel for exercise was for the muscles used to push the bow forward because you are not only using the draw muscles, but also pushing on a massive amount of weight with the opposing arm. Granted, there would be better exercises for proper muscles, which make you tilt sideways and push, not lay on your back with a wheel.
But again for which side to draw on, I will trust the artists of eld who sketched/carved/sewed arrows on the right even up to 5000 BCE more than modern archers. Plus personal experience. When you draw on the right, the string slaps toward the right and away from your arm. This should be a big red flag. Arm guards are more of a modern thing. Finding information about them historically is just like bow stringers. They are modern.
@@Lycantis Modern archery was a revitalisation of an art that was by the point of it becoming a sport, was no longer in use in the military.
There were several hundred years between the bow being used in combat, and archery as a sport. So you aren't wrong.
Modern archery was a reinvention of a dead art, and used against stationary targets which influenced its development.
@@TechnoMinarchist what about Japanese archery? Their archery tradition was never interrupted, and they shoot from the right side.
@@BohdanMorzhuk-j1h This is what I am saying.
This is so exciting! I'm a traditional archer. I've been shooting since I was old enough to hold a bow. I started on recurve until I was about 10 when I got my first compound bow and then I went back to traditional archery when I was in my late teens. Now at 40 I've been shooting traditional archery for over 20 years. After this many years I'm still at a 65 lb bow and I know that sounds heavy but I hunt and I never want my shots to go to waste. There are a lot of longbow and recurve bows that still use sites and that's perfectly fine. I shoot instinctually so I don't use any sites but it's like throwing a baseball. When you throw a baseball, you don't aim down your arm and hope to hit the target. Your body just knows how to aim for the target. I don't know about a lot of people, but I learned how to shoot traditional with both eyes open. I know that's very common but with compound bow it's such a different monster to deal with... It's kind of funny because one of my favorite bows that I use is a timber ridge takedown recurve that's only 40 lb. My favorite bow to shoot is 65 lb Mongolian horse bow.
Nice to see someone finding the things that are right, instead of focusing on the things that are not. Loved this guy!
I’d like to mention that the actor in Robin Hood was taught by Lars Anderson and most shots were legit, like hitting the arrows, and knocking on the right side with the Mediterranean style of holding the arrow.
Well, Lars Andersson is a legit archer. He just focuses on trick shots, which is a different style from competitive target archery, or hunting, or medieval battle archery. Knocking on the right side is faster, since you don't have to thread the arrow. However, you don't have the same line of sight, so precise aiming is harder (which doesn't matter if you aim instinctively).
But mostly when it comes to styles, like how you hold the string/arrow, knocking side, anchor point, bow angle, etc., it's about what you're more comfortable with. What works for you works for you.
@Data User 0001 Yeah, you're probably right. I don't have that much experience shooting a bow, but I'm okay at judging distances.
@@AnotherDuck No one today practices medieval battle archery. No one. That's because this isn't the Middle Ages, and no one (aside from a few isolated hunter-gatherer tribes that still exist) uses bows as weapons of war anymore.
What Lars does is every bit as potentially relevant to medieval battle archery, as far as we know, as anything target shooters do.
@@n0wheregrrl Some people try to practice it.
@@AnotherDuck He shot like several shots through a freaking keyhole, getting a world record. xD So pretty precise I'd say.
I'm glad they included War of the Arrows. Very great movie. It is very intense action and splendidly displays tactics, wind, and everything that involved archery back in those times. Highly recommend watching it
Glad Brave got perfect marks. Sure, not a perfect movie, but Very well animated, voiced, acted, writen, paced, and researched, and a fantastic look into Scottish history/folklore.
You can really know the guy is professional because you can't even question his explanation, its so accurate that he even pointed out even the smallest details. I am a member of Archery club so I do have a beginner to average knowledge about archery. He really is an awesome and knowledgeable guy
I've been coaching archery for years and I must say everything he said was spot on. People got poked by the nock all the time if they didn't follow proper retrieving instructions, no one ever got hurt by the pointer😁
Interesting fact in "War of the Arrows", extensions were often use in ancient wars, because arrows were limited resource and they often reuse arrows from the battlefield, which would normally be broken and needed to trim down. For those who hasn't seen the movie, the protagonist injured the enemy to draw out his fellow team for rescue, a typical tactical for modern day snipers.
"the piece of bamboo" is not attached to the bow , but to the hand by a cord . "tong-ah" is called in korea . I stopped using it some 12 years ago . used often will eventually damage your bow .
@@bulllea I have guys do traditional bow told me the same, and it cuts your hand pretty bad, but during war every arrow counts, they must use everything they could find.
@@tomarnold7284 it will not cut your hand , only in a case of accident . it's a dangerous device , you can damage your hand badly if something go very wrong like when the tip of the mini-arrow (pyeonjeon) slip away from tong-ah before the release . usually you hear a small noise if this is the case and you will not proceed to do the release . the bamboo must be pretty stiff and the end must be cut in a certain way . I was the first archer to use that in my country , I never had any accident , but since I discourage anyone to try it . it's too dangerous . it's not worth the risk . the mini-arrow have an amazing speed , usually at short distance you will not see it in flight .
@@bulllea Thanks for the insight. We don't get many traditional bows here so it's interesting to know❤
@@bulllea agreed. It is dangerous to shoot and lethal for the receiving end :)
I love that they show the Tong-ah and Pyeonjeon from traditional Korean style archery. Very interesting and deadly tools.
well ... anothers call it "majra" . long , long time ago .
Moreover I would like to add that it isn’t overdraw. It’s normal draw to Korean Archers.
@@bulllea It was used 1200 AD or before for Koreans according to the record. Similar weapons were used by others. However, Koreans were extremely notorious of using such weapon during wars against Mongols, Chinese, Japanese, and Jurchens. Overall, Korean military were known for bow accuracy since the ancient, and it made these short arrows extremely effective.
The best movie about archery is War of the Arrows. Koreans take archery seriously because they have been known for thousands of years as expert archers. The scene you described about wounding the other person is because he was being chased by another group of archers. Basically was a trap to reveal where the other guys were. When you watch the scene further, you see that someone falls for the trap and tries to pull him into cover which reveals the positions of others.
11:30 Except Clint actually does run out of arrows, not very long after that. As for the trick shot, I agree with it being far fetched but they are trying to establish him as having preternatural aim. Beyond that though, after you mentioned the mirror shot, you have to think about the fact that he's surrounded by buildings with a LOT of very reflective glass.
Also, Clint's a superhero. It's going to be ridiculous and it has to look cool on film. I definitely give leeway to those characters because there is always a level of disbelief.
@@sarcasmxkate and Brave is an animated children's Film, yet its archery scenes are phenomenal. This video was about the attention to details. Leeway aside, what the OP said is actually true. Clint was born with a natural gift. Imagine working out those physics problems of finding the right angles and distances for a projectiles - Clint can do that in his head in a fraction of second. Which explains why he doesn't need to set up his forms before taking shots.
@@scientia.veritas this is my point though. While I love that Brave took the super accurate road, they could have done something truly wild and I would not have cared because I give leeway to characters on film. It's dope when actors can go super realistic. I love that too and it's cool to see experts teach us how it should be done, but when we're talking about movies, I'm not overly concerned with how accurate. I like the spectacle of it. That's all I'm saying.
Kind of makes me a little sad that I haven't seen anyone critique the archery done on Arrow, especially with how long that show ran for.
But another thing I would like to mention that, arrows are not that fast. The spacecraft blows away as soon as he shot the arrow, like he shot a bullet. The spacecraft looked quite far away. Recurve bow shoots arrow upto 200 ft/s, not that fast.
Also, laser sight doesn't work on bow, because arrows drop over distance, it doesn't shoot as straight as bullet. That's why bow sights have muliple pins and or single pin with slider.
Historically there have been cases of military archers loosing multiple arrows from the string at once. Yes it limits your accuracy, yes it limits the power each arrow can deliver, but it has been done effectively against lightly armored opponents more or less like a shotgun blast rather than accurately placing each arrow where you want it.
You can even put some poison on the tip of the arrow. 3 poison arrow at once very effective.
I would imagine that doing it en masse with a group of other archers attempting to blanket an area might be effective.
Perhaps, it can also be the artist got the visual wrong and that 3 arrows arent being shot at once, but held in the offhand and rapidly reloaded Lars style. Which would probably make more sense because with a bit more training you are showering the same amount of missiles downwind for increased power.
It's also possible that after a couple of thousand years of practice, a super strong warrior might just develop a few skills not accessible to mere mortals.
The Hawkeye scene where he shoots behind him, is what you described with the mirror. I think it is implied that he is so skilled and mindful of his surroundings that he was able to see that thing in the windows of a building in front of him.
WOW! 10/10 for Brave, the animators nailed it, expert give high score just like other Disney films reviewed here.
Brave actually is a 10/10. Disney can suck it, but Brave is far superior!
Why does hearing people talk about something they’re passionate and knowledgeable about make me so excited???? I really love these videos Omgsh
I feel this is one of the most educational in the series, this guy knows his stuff, now I want to get a bow
I want one too, but I'd probably end up taking my own eye out.
It's actually really fun and it's a way to build a degree of upper body strength. Regular maintenance of the bow and regular practice for yourself after some tutoring and you'll do just fine.
Highly recommend the korean War of The Arrows movie! Great guerilla tactics and archery warfare there. It's actually free to watch on RUclips as well legally from RUclips themselves.
As for context to the scene, the arrow used there is exactly for the same reason the expert said however, it was also used in that situation so that your enemy could not use it back at you without the proper equipment aka the bamboo shaft used to hold it in. It also was sort of makeshift as the character had broken one of his arrows in half and sharpened it for the ambush. And the reason why the archer didn't go for the kill was because he was using the enemy as bait for the other enemies nearby for whomever would try and help their fallen teammate's cries for help.
The point he makes at 8:36 is the same as why you're told to "squeeze, don't pull" when an instructor at a gun range teaches firing a gun as well, every move your muscles make might influence where you're pointing the gun, or in this case, a bow and arrow. Interesting how a cartoon movie is more accurate than most live action productions.
One thing he mentioned in Brave is letting your hand release it smoothly. Just to expand on it. Actually it's your back not your hand nor your arm. By using your back to pull the string, your fingers will naturally let go off the string. When he mentioned the archery muscles, it's mostly the back.
That's almost always the case for what muscles you use in various athletic efforts. It's usually closer to your core than you think. And you usually use a bigger part of your body than you think.
Yes it is the back but u release the string with your fingers in the recurve bow
@@AnotherDuck
True that. I remember having to correct beginners who attended the same MMA gym as me-they thought that doing things like bicep curls would be most important for their punching power. In reality, it comes from your legs, abdominal obliques, your back, and of course drilling good enough technique to efficiently and consistently tie all of those different muscle groups together.
@@Sakaki98 The best way to see what you're using is to keep doing whatever it is you want to do, and then see where you get tired or wear out first. That's either the muscles you're supposed to use, or the muscles you're incorrectly using due to bad technique. If you've got an instructor you can probably figure out which.
That is very interesting! I found out I shoot "wrong" haha, because I was at a work team-building outing. I'm right handed, so they handed me a right handed bow...HOWEVER I learned to shoot with a left handed bow apparently (was just laying around and my step dad IS left handed) so after some truly wild attempts that felt completely unnatural, I saw one other person had a left handed bow... I then shot it like a RH with my left hand forward, but the shelf (new word to me) was away from me. The instructor scoffed, but I started really nailing the target. They thought it was some "pool shark" stuff foing on, but I legit couldn't shoot a RH bow with any sort of accuracy. I was lucky to get the arrow to go in a respectable direction. haha but the LH bow, shooting like a RH person was like butter! it really is about what makes you comfortable.
In archery it doesn't matter which hand is dominant, it matters which eye is. Your most likely right hand, left eye dominant.
@@chandradickinson3731 yup its why i shoot left handed
What matters most in archery is not whether you're right- or left-handed, but whether you're right- or left-eyed. I discovered this when I took my son shooting, and the coach quickly figured out that although he is right-handed, he is left-eye dominant. (You can test this for yourself by pointing at something in the distance and then alternately closing your right or your left eye: with which eye does your pointing remain 'on target'?)
So my right-handed son shoots left-handed, with a left-handed bow.
@@jamesaustin7159 I agree, the dominant eye is the important body part for archery.
In my opinion, an easier way to determine which is the dominant eye is the following: Stretch out both arms and put the hands together, so that both index fingers and thumbs form a small window. Focus through this window a point in the distance, use something that is easy to focus on for that. Now you slowly move your hands back towards your face. Keep both eyes open and keep focused on the point in the distance through the small window. When your hands hit your head you will realize you only actually looking at the point in the distance with one eye, as the window is so close to your eyes that you can't look through it with both of your eyes. This is the dominant eye.
@@FactoryofRedstone This was a great explanation. Just discovered that I'm left eyed. Thank you!
Damn no “Arrow”? I know the show has its flaws but Stephen Ammell I thought did a fantastic job getting people to believe he was one of the world’s best archers.
Exactly, since the name of the movie is literally the key object you need in archery, you'd think they'd throw some of those scenes in too
Probably because it's not currently airing.
@@iraford5788 Dude only 1 show among these is "currently airing"
yeah so sad im not sure if the same olympian coach stephen amells shooting but i know there was and it was a lady
Feel like the Lord of the Rings one is a bit hard to judge. He was shooting down from a very high wall which given your explanation of tilting your body to adjust would explain a high elbow, and elves are a lot stronger than humans so the draw strength on their bows is probably larger than you'd think
He's also using a mythical bow handed to him by the Elven King. I wouldnt be surpised if it had like 200lbs on that thing, and as a Tolkien Elf that wouldnt be anything for him.
Grizzly Jim is one the most awesome and genuine guys. I drove to Merlin and bought a bow from him years ago and he took time to shoot with me and my cousin in the on site range for hours and even personally helped out with any issues. The mans and archery hero and a top bloke. He deserves more recognition. Glad to see you doing well Grizzly! Also if you are an avid archer like me then check out Grizzly Strings and Merlin Archery!
“Hitting arrows out of the air is great, but not something I would really recommend trying.”
Man I’m so glad we have the opinion of a professional archer here
The explosive tipped arrow in Rambo was in fact a Razorback 5 broadhead with its protective cover on. When Hoyt/Easton came out with the Rambo bow, they also offered a two piece folding arrow with an elastic cord inside that held it snug, it was a black 2216 aluminum arrow shaft with 3 five inches black vanes and nock.
In the late 80s, compound bows were usually 45 to 48 inches long, so you can shoot them with your fingers. The bow used in Rambo 3 was a Hoyt/Easton Pro Vantage FPS Plus.
"Could I kill this dude running away?" is an absolute gem both in and out of context!
😂😂😂😂