One of my favourite things about a Christmas Carol is that Scrooge isn’t necessarily portrayed as a man who will go to any lengths to make money. He is miserly, sure, but he doesn’t break laws, he does everything that is legally required of him as an employer. Dickens was trying to say that simply doing no evil and following the law was not necessarily enough to be good. You had to go out of your way to be charitable, and many found that controversial. It says it is not ok to be blissfully ignorant. I think some rich people need to realise that today
@@mollymcnaughton3133Does never having been Christened count as being a Pagan? If it does I'm a natural and all for it. I hate the commercialisation of Christmas in our Western Culture and I'm pretty sure it's diametrically opposite to the Christian Prophet's central message.....
I’m a “muppets is the best adaptation” person. My favourite aspects are how closely they quote the text and Michael Caine’s performance. He supposedly said he was going to play it completely straight like it was a theatre drama. Just brilliant.
I came to say this if no one else had. I remember seeing an interview with him where he said he made a very conscious decision when he took the role to treat the Muppets the same way he would any other costars.
American kids are very opinionated when they see or hear of food they are not familiar with, like boiled pudding. I can imagine kids going “ewwww.” I’ve dealt with plenty of spoiled American kids showing disgust at foreign foods. 😢
He said he was going to play it as if the Muppets were actually classically-trained thespians. Conversely, Tim Curry decided to play Long John Silver as if he were also a Muppet. They are both correct.
Yes, American children would be confused by pudding. I, a Canadian, was confused by British pudding when I started reading books like Agatha Christie. Our pudding is only ever a sweet goop that is kind of a custard consistency in a variety of flavours from chocolate or vanilla to banana or pistachio.
I think most US kids are familiar with bread pudding, which is closer to a British pudding, though still not the same. We used to have bread pudding every so often and I think it stands out to kids because there just aren't too many desserts you light on fire.
Best not to speak for all of Canada, since we are so big. In Atlantic Canada (especially, but not only, Newfoundland) we eat plenty of Christmas pudding.
@@shannonsenzig1676although I had heard of it as a kid, I was not familiar with what it was like until my 30s? Lol. I want to say it's more of an eastern/southern coastal thing.
From what I heard, this was the first Muppet movie made after Jim Henson's death and his son, Brian Henson, really put his heart and soul into it. It was a project fueled by grief and everyone wanted to get it just right, all the way down to the costuming. I imagine that dedication comes through to us the audience as well, which is why its such a classic to many.
Nicole Rudolph, one of the costume historians in RUclips, did an analysis of the costumes going along with a project to recreate one of the looks, and her analysis was that the costumes were very accurate, and actually one of the better versions in that regard.
@@Masquaradethewriter I was five at the time, and his was the first death I was ever aware of. I was devastated, and I think I was vaguely under the impression that Muppets content would no longer be on television.
I don't think Scrooge hired the rats as bookkeeping staff, they're just the normal city amount of rats and he said "Well if you're going to be occupying space in my office you're going to have to make yourself useful." Weird ways that a world with muppets would be different but I think it makes enough sense.
You can look at it that way or you can view this through scrooges eyes and how he sees certain sections of society in this cases he sees his lower class employees as thieving rats while he sees cratchit and the other middle managers as cowardly frogs
@@Ericshadowblade As I said on your other post, I'm not sure this is true to the story at all. Admittedly, I am no Dickens expert, but I do not ever remember this being presented as a part of Scrooge's character.
The bit with the scarf always gets me, because the way Caine plays it; its clear that this is the first present he's been given in a LONG time and he isn't sure what to do with it. He was so focused on making amends that he never once considered people would be nice to him in return.
Abby Cox made a fantastic video about how insanely accurate the costumes are! They even made sure that less wealthy characters were wearing 1830's clothes, since not everyone can afford to keep up with the latest fashions.
Yes! Abby's video is phenomenal! It's one of my favorite RUclips videos ever. Nicole Rudolph also has a video series where she makes Gonzo's outfit from this movie, shoes included.
I'm very surprised she didn't cover the fact that Gonzo's Dickens Character *explicity* gives a call to action to the viewer to consider reading the book just prior to the end credits. I would have thought that would have given the Muppets' depiction of this story some well-deserved bonus points. I always remember feeling very happy with that final suggestion from Gonzo as a kid. It gives the original source material such a great amount of acknowledgement and respect/deference. I wish she'd highlighted it here :-)
I actually did read the original book because I like the Muppet adaptation so much. It had that suggestion, and I figured that most of Gonzo's great lines were from the book, so I read it.
I appreciate that Gonzo and Rizzo tell the children that the 3rd ghost will be scary. It also breaks the 4th wall and the tension of the scene. Its a smart way to take away the drama because it is made for children. This would not be done for an adult audience. And personally as a parent, I appreciate the tip off.
Michael Caine’s performance is amazing because he didn’t act like he was preforming against muppets, he played the role seriously as if the rest of the cast were live actors.
When I taught 4th grade I would read A Christmas Carol to my students every year. After we finished, I would show the movie in class. The muppet version immediately came to mind, but for academic value I wanted to use the version that was the closest to the book that I could find. Keeping that in mind, I looked through several versions. The muppet version came out the winner anyway, even when considering it on equal grounds with many of the other classic adaptations. The deciding factor ended up being the sheer number of lines that were quoted directly from the book.
@lbatemon1158 Is that the one where the Ghost of Christmas Future sends Scrooge to Hell down a dark tunnel? (I think it was Hell anyway, it's been a long time since I saw it.)
I agree. If it hadn't been the muppets then it would have been either the George C. Scott version and the Patrick Stewart version, and that would have been a difficult decision.
Something I really appreciate about A Christmas Carol is that it uses Christmas as a setting, but it’s really focused on how society (well-to-do people in particular) treated the poor. Things have certainly changed since the 1840s of course, but the upper class’ attitude towards the poor not so much. I really respect that the Muppets adaptation faithfully brought that into their version
Yeah, the problem isn't that scrooge doesn't like Christmas, it's that if you can't at least be decent to each other on Christmas what hope do we have for the rest of the year
George C Scott's version jams the candle "snuffer" on the 1st ghost. Grinding it to the ground--awakening to find himself wringing his blankets, as if strangling thempirit.
I don't disagree with you. But it also was very much about Christmas. Dickens wrote it because he didn't like how people were treating Christmas. But he also was explicitly using the Spirit of Christmas to push for better conditions for the poor as well. He had other books on this topic, of course. It was a form of activism. If you haven't seen it, I very much recommend the Annotated A Christmas Carol. It goes heavily into Dickens's intent. He was both a bit proponent of Christmas as well as caring about the poor.
At a pub quiz, the question was 'How many ghosts visited Scrooge in A Christmas Carol?' The consensus in our team was 4 until my wife piped up with 'But there were 5. Both Marley brothers visited him.' This was the definitive version of the story for her.
There is, though I cannot post it, a brilliant meme. Patrick Stewart has played Scrooge as well and it has a still image of him looking like he is shouting "there are only FOUR ghosts" Underneath you have the Muppets Marley and Marley just floating there.
@@genericname2747 I've read the book and I don't remember that at all, funny how the muppet version just pushed out the recollection of the original plot points again.
I quite like the "Who cares about stupid old Christmas?!" line from young Scrooge, as it seems a very natural way for a child to react. He's lonely and stuck at the school, and lashes out at the other kids with that statement, even if deep down he doesn't real feel it's true. He absolutely does care about Christmas at that stage. It's exactly how someone that age, and even some adults, react when they're hurting inside.
I will say in defense of YA Scrooge, after Fozziewig tells him to shut up and enjoy the party, he shuts up and enjoys the party. He may not be as cool as Book Scrooge, but he’s still going on the Scrooge journey from less to more uptight and greedy as he ages and isolates himself from the world.
I don’t know. It IS a natural reaction to lash out when you’re hurting, but I feel they could have done a better job of making it clear that he was speaking out of his pain and really didn’t mean it. For me, personally, the outburst makes it just a bit more difficult to find the character sympathetic- easier to [mis]interpret his isolation as voluntarily self-imposed. In the book, one gets the sense that if this lonely and abandoned young boy were invited to join his friends, he would have leaped at the opportunity, rather than reacting with defensive hostility.
yeah it seems like both this version of the story and the original both give scrooge a lot of.. implied backstory. Especially with his family. Purely by him saying or hearing things that require that to be the case. They took different routes, but either way the ghost of the past is showing us he changed, without showing us the specific time when he changed (before the flashbacks in this movie, and after the flashbacks in the book. unless there's some part i'm unaware of. haven't read it in some time.)
@@StoryMing one of the hardest things for people to do, especially in the 21st century, is get over the idea of someone's isolation as self-imposed or deserved for their behavior, and focus on just fixing them to what you know they should be, knowing that only some past trauma could have caused this.
@@KairuHakubi Self-imposed isolation or other hardship is definitely a thing, and Scrooge DOES *absolutely* have moral responsibility for his own life choices. _However,_ in the original book, at this stage in his life, he is abandoned and neglected, which is not of his doing, nor is he shown to be hostile or resentful over it. To recognize that there are outward forces which had a large bearing in shaping him to be what he became, is NOT, in my opinion, to excuse, condone, or absolve him for what he has done wrong; it is simply to understand better what he needs to overcome and change.
The detail of Fozziwihig and Mom is a nod back to the ‘87 Muppet Family Christmas where every Muppet character, as well as Doc from Canadian Fraggle Rock, end up at Fozzie’s mom’s house.
I suspect "Fuzziwig and Mom" is a reference to the earlier _Muppet Family Christmas_ where Fozzie and pals go and visit his mother for Christmas. And I don't think Fozzie tends to wear shoes--but then, neither does Kermit. That said, Fozzie would be the type to tell a joke about his *bear* feet.
What I’ve heard from fashion historians online is that the MCC has the most accurate costumes out of all the other filmed CC interpretations. Which is cool because most of the costumes are tiny and muppet sized.
As an American, I can confidently say that all of the 5-year-olds I’ve known would have been very confused by a British pudding. We do not have any puddings like that in America. 😂 However, as a mom, I’m a big proponent of teaching kids small things in passing. They’re the building blocks of future learning.
You talking about anachronisms reminds me of the time the scrap metal merchants came around, sounding their horn as they do. Now, these type of people used to also collect rags and bones, so were known as "rag and bone men". My daughter, who was 4 at the time, asked me who was blowing the horn, and when I told her it was the "rag and bone men" she was frightened, as she imagined a man made out of rags and bones! Having typed all that out, I wonder if you even have scrap metal collectors in America? They're usually travelling people (who we used to call "Gypsies" but that word is not PC these days) and they go around in a pick-up truck type of vehicle. They blow their horn so that people know that they're there and people can bring out any items containing metal that they want to get rid of. Obviously, the scrap metal merchants extract as much metal as they can and when they have enough to sell they go and get money for it.
@@zappababe8577 I am 67 and grew up in Brooklyn ny. We didn't have rag and bone men. Kirk douglas wrote a book called "the rag man's son" (which he was). That was the first time I heard of it. When I was a kid t knife grinder would come around and ring loud "jingle bells" a d the women would bring out their knives
For Fozziewig and Mom, that's a reference to the 1987 Muppet Family Christmas special. It was a crossover where the Muppets, Sesame Street muppets and Fraggles all wind up at the country home of Fozzie's mother. It's fantastic, and I highly recommend it. Swedish Chef sees Big Bird and immediately plans to cook him for Christmas dinner. ("Gobla gobla humunga!")
@@Brasswatchman not necessarily. In the Midlands, Mom is quite commonly used rather than Mum or Mam. It's not necessarily a straight American/British thing, even if people tend to assume it is.
The Tiny Tim "First parting there was among us" scene is especially somber in this film's context, as this is the first Muppets movie production after the death of Jim Henson. Steve Whitmere's then-recent acquisition of the role of Kermit made his mournful performance in this scene have an extra layer of heartbreak to it.
Oh man. This scene already made me cry and now it's going to be even worse. I was 9 in 1990 and Jim Henson's was the first major death of an artistic creator I admired.
Rowlf was almost entirely retired, as he was one of Henson's personal favorites (and they couldn't retire Kermit). He has a quick cameo in the band at the party, but he's not given any lines until The Muppets with Jason Siegal (and he's probably one of the funniest in the movie).
That line always stood out to me as weirdly out of place, as though it were inserted after-the-fact. Fascinating to discover that that's basically what happened.
The line "and to Tiny Tim, who did NOT die, he was a second father" is in the original Dickens. They were just being true to the source material -- but Gonzo's delivery is charming and reassuring.
I always interpreted young Scrooge saying "who cares about stupid old Christmas" in this movie as more a resentment about his parent; they pay to get rid of him, basically, and don't let him come home over the winter holidays, and so he says what he says instead of breaking down in front of his classmates in tears because his parents doesn't care enough about him to have him come home.
You are exactly right. I'm a teacher and have worked with countless elementary students, and I can tell you that the "who cares about stupid old Christmas" outburst would be a very normal thing to come from a neglected child. He's disappointed and hurt so he tries to make himself feel a little better by telling himself that he doesn't actually want what he's missing. At the same time, he also has his defenses way up because he's afraid of looking pathetic to his peers and becoming an object of pity. That's why the lines that set him off were "Hurry up Ebenezer, the last coach is leaving," "Come on, he never goes home for Christmas."
It's so amazing that you did this comparison, my boyfriend and I were talking about it the other day. He told me, and I verified on the Wiki page, that Michael Caine said ""I'm going to play this movie like I'm working with the Royal Shakespeare Company. I will never wink, I will never do anything Muppety. I am going to play Scrooge as if it is an utterly dramatic role and there are no puppets around me." And he did an incredible job! Also, we sadly do not grow up knowing what a Christmas pudding is honestly. Not unless you're the strange child who sits in the corner reading books all the time. . . 😂 Although it didn't understand it well until I was an adult and watched GBBS for the first time ❤
In regards to Miss Piggy's style... I feel like at least part of it is emphasizing that the Cratchits don't have enough money for her to BE fashionable. Her clothing is neat and well-cared for, but her husband certainly didn't have the money to keep her up to date.
Yes but 99% of people watching the film would not have understood the subtle differences in Miss Piggy’s costume to be reflective of 1830s vs 1840s style…
@@maddieb.4282Even if secondhand shops are an anachronism, secondhand clothing surely is not. They may not have had Goodwill and Salvation Army stores, but the fashionably dressed would have done *something* with their old fashions.
This is confirmed in the directors commentary. They deliberately gave Piggy outfits a few years and slightly not in fashion because they would of been cheaper secondhand.
I really like Gonzo as Dickens. Most adaptations feel like a stage play, or a movie adapted from a stage play, to the point that you would think A Christmas Carol was originally a play, and not a novel/novella. Gonzo as Dickens gives it much more of a "storyteller" feel.
I recall the reasoning for that is children are presented here with the Muppets ( for childhood joy) that may, in time, make an older child or young adult want to read the actual story.
Honestly in material where the narrator's voice adds so much, I wish I saw this kind of narrator-as-character insert more often. Eg. Any future adaptation of anything Douglas Adams has ever written
@@InnuendoXPI love how The Guide takes the role of narrator in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy radio plays. It lets more of Douglas Adams’ writing get in.
The perfect finishing touch is when the characters finish singing, and as the credits begin to roll we hear Rizzo's voice saying "Great story, Mr. Dickens," and Gonzo answers, "Thanks. Hey, if you liked this then you should read the book."
I think Dickens would've approved. He started the endless adaptations of this story with his live readings, where he was constantly revising it to make it work for a live audience.
I’ve taught A Christmas Carol to 8th graders for several years, and I’m so happy you spent time on the Ghost of Christmas Past! So hard to make sense of that description, and SO MUCH WEIRDER than you expect. I see the Ghost as a representation of a candle and, in some ways, like memory (our ability to hold many “ages” in our memory).
I'd forgotten how great Michael Caine was in this role! In one of his books he mentioned how much fun he had being involved with this movie, and the respect he had for the Henson crew....Thank you so much for doing this!
36:07 I think Scrooge's awkward dance is more than just to accommodate the puppet. He's been a shriveled up old crank for so long he's lost a lot of strength and flexibility, which means now that he's moving in unaccustomed ways looks awkward and painful because it's so strangeand difficult. It reinforces the huge change he's suddenly making in his life.
Also, in my experience, there is no Christmas pudding in the US. Maybe in some specific families, up in New England. I'm in my 50s and am still a little confused about pudding that gets boiled and set on fire. Pudding, in my experience, comes from a box and sets up in the fridge, but I've never been very fancy. 😁
@@adoxartist1258it varies from family to family. I was born and raised in California, and my mom used to make steamed Persimmon Pudding. Similar in many ways to Christmas pudding, and we sometimes ate it at Christmas, with hard sauce (butter, powdered sugar, and liquor).
It tends to be more like a cake with certain wintery fruits in it. The cake part is often made with brandy, if i recall correctly. It tended to end up pretty dry so they boiled it to make it easier to eat. Due to the alcholal content it was set on fire to make it taste of brandy and minimise the intoxication effect. @@adoxartist1258
@christajennings3828 Very cool! I've never seen anything about Christmas pudding outside British shows and movies. Happy Holidays! Merry Christmas! Happy 2024!
The whole thing with the Ghost of Christmas present having a bad short-term memory is actually my favorite addition, about how he is always living in the present. I'm surprised that other adaptations haven't included that. Also just because you mentioned it several times, yes children would be confused by "pudding" and frankly many adults because Christmas pudding is not a thing here. Also we understand pudding a a chocolate-y mouse type of thing, which I know is not what British people mean by pudding
We DON'T have Christmas pudding in the US, not as a standard tradition. Just yesterday I was having to explain what a 'figgy pudding' was to my dad, because he had spent 83 years thinking the song said 'sticky pudding'. I had to explain the whole flaming Christmas pudding to him, he was truly ignorant on the fact.
The closest parallel to this I can come up with as a Brit, is that I have in my life heard the word Poindexter twice, once in a song, and once in Dodgeball, and it took a considerable amount of digging for me to find out what it meant.
Oh hey! I can't tell if you just skipped past it for time, but if you haven't seen it, I recommend the cut with Belle's song, When Love Has Gone, that was left out of the theatrical release. (It's finally on Disney+, in the extras, as "full length version" or some such!) It makes Rizzo's bawling make more sense, it marks the emotional turning point for present-day Scrooge, the very next song says Christmas is "in all the places we find love", and the ending song, The Love We Found, is a direct reprise that brings the whole thing full circle. As good a movie as it is without that song, it's on another level with it included.
It was on the VHS copy. We didn't realize it was an extended cut until we got it on DVD years later. We always fast-forwarded the song. We were excited to finally have a skip scene button, but we didn't even need it. As a musician and composer though, I will agree that the musical reprise makes the cut a weird decision, and as an adult I see its appeal.
Oh, it's in the extras! I was very confused when I watched it on Disney+ this Xmas just gone and saw the song wasn't there, despite reading in more than one place that it was added back in.
@@Richard_Nickerson The version with the song is now called the extended cut but in reality it is the theatrical cut. The song there when I saw the movie in the theater in the 90’s. Some daft executive thought the song was too boring for children so he cut it from the first DVD edition. After a lot of uproar from fans it was placed back in the so-called extended edition on Blu ray.
@@thulcandran It wasn't "some daft executive", it was based on what people said coming out of the theaters. I got to tell people asking about Pride, Prejudice, & Zombies that they messed up the whole thing when I walked out of theaters, but I don't think enough people complained with me. This is standard movie-making procedure. Edit: Again, it always existed on the VHS, and it *is* an option on the regular DVD. You're acting as if it completely disappeared when the comment you're responding to already disproves that.
32:52 Can we just mention that Caine's acting here is immaculate? The way he makes you feel the regrets of a broken old man? Or maybe that's just a little too close to home for me right now.
While this was absolutely made (at least largely) for a US audience, the Jim Henson Company did a lot of work in England, including filming 5 seasons of The Muppet Show there, and Frank Oz (Miss Piggy among others) was even born in England (and has lived there off and on during his life) so I suspect many of the core people involved were familiar with the differences between US and British Christmas, but made the changes intentionally. And for most people in the US, if they have heard of "Christmas pudding" it is because they have read/seen a version of A Christmas Carol, that has it in it , but may not know exactly what it is supposed to be. Not only is it not a tradition here, but "pudding" now refers to a completely different set of deserts (like custards).
I am an American in my mid-50's and have had my first ever "pudding" in the UK style over thanksgiving. I would say we would most understand it as a dessert bread. For us, pudding is closer to what the UK calls custard, though our puddings are generally sweeter than UK custards. Also, for a lot of us, a pudding comes in a small box and you add the powder to milk.
I love that Michael approached this movie like a serious adaptation, and treated the Muppets like fellow actors. A bit like how Tim Curry, in Muppets Treasure Island, went full Muppet himself and became one with the cast in a different way.
I believe he was quoted as saying he would only do it if he could play it as if he was on stage with the Royal Shakespeare Company. (Also, a cute little detail I found out when Googling for that quote. Apparently, his other reason was that his daughter was 7 at the time and really wanted to see a film her dad was in, but none of his work from the time was age appropriate. So he did it so she could see it.)
I expect that is why Michael Caine was chosen. It seems to me a directorial decision was taken to make a faithful, honest and accurate adaptation so they needed an English actor with gravitas.
I would expect nothing less from a Muppet production. I think we have this tendency to dismiss children's programs as frivolous or "not real" somehow but I can't really think of a time when Jim Henson's Creature Workshop ever had that attitude. They tend to put in the thought and the work.
Abby Cox did a great video looking specifically at the costumes from the perspective of a costume historian, and Nicole Rudolph has one where she remakes Gonzo’s (main) Dickens costume from the movie (generally the costumes are all shockingly accurate considering they’re mostly on puppets).
Yes! I love this version partly because of the costumes, they're more accurate than a lot of other adaptations I've seen and it made me irrationally happy
Would American children be confused by Christmas pudding? Yes. 😂 I was also confused by “sweetmeats” which showed up a few times in the books I liked to read. I mean, it’s good to bridge those culture gaps, too, so maybe they could have left the pudding in. But yes, Americans being confused by British pudding is a thing!
And I understand that generally, "pudding" means dessert, not necessarily what us North Americans would think of as pudding. Of course, in this context, "pudding" means Christmas pudding.
Americans also don't have many boiled desserts in the style of figgy pudding, which Americans have heard of from carolers singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas, but aren't likely to have had it.
If you really want to nerd out about the costumes in The Muppet Christmas Carol, I highly recommend Abby Cox's video on the movie's costumes. Also, Nicole Rudolph did a series of videos where she created a historically accurate, human sized version of Gonzo's costume. Both of them pretty much conclude that the movie's costuming was insanely impressive by any standard, and absolutely mind blowing when you consider that its target audience was kids who weren't even old enough to read, let alone know anything about historical clothing.
We do not have Christmas pudding in America. In fact I have had several conversations having to explain what a pudding is, even though I myself have never had one, but most Americans are only familiar with the custard-like dessert pudding. Then to further confuse us Americans I have to add in that pudding is sometimes used as a name for dessert and not just the dish.
LoL! I was just going to say that. I think Abby's Muppet Christmas Carol video pretty much put her channel on the map and it is a solid video she geeks out hard about smocking etc. it is charming
I didn't see the Muppet Christmas Carol until I was 52 (about four years ago). And I think it IS one of the best adaptations! I don't have nostalgia for it. I just think it is tremendously well-done. Michael Caine plays the role of Scrooge perfectly!
Same here! I know that many people consider the Alistair Sim version to be "the classic", but that's only because it was formative for us, not because the adaptation was excellent. I don't think anyone else can hold a candle to Michael Caine's interpretation of Scrooge.
this is one of my favorite versions of "A Chritmas Carol" because of Michale Caine's remarkable performance. In many adaptations Scrooge doesn't show regret until the Ghost of Christmas Future--which give the impression that Scrooge changes out of fear of punishment rather than understanding his mistakes. I prefer the intperpretation that Scrooge has had an epiphany and that's why he changes--which Caine does fabulously.
Yes!! I know people think of this as a movie for children because of the Muppets, and it is accessible to children because of them, yet I didn't see this movie until I was nearly 40 and it is my favorite. Michael Caine gave the first portrayal of Scrooge as someone I could relate to, not just some hollow Christmas-hating ogre.
Agreed. In the book, even during the Christmas Past segment, Scrooge was starting to see himself in some of the people he shunned and realizing that he could have made them happy, just as his sister and old employer had for him. As the video said, it wasn't about psychoanalyzing him. It was about reminding him of what he used to be, and of how much it meant to him when he was shown kindness during his times of need.
As an American, British puddings are very confusing to me. My concept of pudding was the Jello style pudding. I read a lot as a kid and couldn't fathom how it could be boiled!
There was a time before microwave ovens when Jello pudding was cooked on a stove so id point to modern conveniences as a part of the disconnect@@mindyschocolate
Puddings are basically anything for desert - bread and butter/custard pudding, rice pudding. Just had a look, you mean Jello brand puddings, which Brits would probably describe as a mousse due to it's consistency.
@@alcalavicci6483 Oh please don't boil water in the microwave! For Jello or any other reason. A microwave can super heat water past the boiling point and it doesn't form bubbles. Then when the water is agitated, as one does when removing it from the microwave, it can explode. There are tons of videos with footage of people getting horribly scalded. If you absolutely have to, open the microwave, then don't touch it for a couple of minutes. Also, beware making fruit curd in the microwave, something about the sugar and eggs can do it too.
I have a friend and coworker who focuses on historical clothing, primarily late-18th century but branching into other eras. She gushes over the costumes in this movie, speaking breathlessly about whoever designed Gonzo's outfits. And believe me, she is not easily impressed. The fact that a children's movie filled with puppets and talking rats, pigs, and frogs has more authentic and well-researched costuming than many big budget historical epics fascinates me.
In the animation industry, they call this kinda thing "bumping the lamp," which means something along the lines of "to put in a lot of effort into something very few will notice." The term originates from the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit, specifically the scene where Roger bumps his head on the lamp in the parlor, causing it to swing back and forth. This swinging lamp was a nightmare for the animators, who had to hand-paint every light and shadow on Roger. Why was this included in the film if it was so difficult? Well, aside from being comedic, the director wanted the Toons to interact with the real world as much as possible, to thoroughly convince the audience that they are physically present in the scene. Muppeteers work on a similar philosophy. It is very difficult to convince an audience that a bunch of felt, thread and fur is alive and present. And yet they not only manage to convince the audience that the puppets are alive, but even the actors and crew who often interact with them. Many people who have worked with Muppeteers have reported talking to the muppets and not the puppeteers, even when they can clearly see the puppeteers. There's even been instances where people have placed microphones on the puppets and not the puppeteers by mistake. It is the attitude of having to work extra hard to convince people that an inanimate object is alive that created the strive for historical accuracy. *That's* why the Muppet Christmas Carol is so accurate. Because they already have to put in more work to suspend your disbelief than a live action human.
Your aunt is a superstar and the amount of raw serotonin I receive every rewatch when I get to see all the delightful costumes filling up my screen cannot be understated
I read recently that this is Michael Caine's favorite of his film performances. In the article Caine said that he crafted the whole of his character as though he was playing with humans - perfectly straight with no mugging. He was proud that the youngest members of his family could comfortably watch it.
I am not surprised after seeing just part of the movie recently. During the song sung by the spirit of Christmas present, Michael Caine is so effortlessly happy. I especially love that last detail. Michael Caine is an awesome actor, but a lot of his movies are not for littles. 😅 He and Tim Curry are great in their Muppet movies. Tim Curry went as over the top as the Muppet characters, so he wasn't overshadowed by their shenanigans. My favorite line is "Upstage, lads. This is my only number."
It works really well as it opens an avenue to see how scrooge sees other people some as rats others as pigs and frog while the noticely human are his family and more wealthy classes
I can’t reiterate this enough that as an American who was once a child, yes, pudding really would’ve COMPLETELY thrown me off. Literally nowhere in American is ‘pudding’ used to refer to the UK version, pudding here only means a custard basically, and pudding cups where especially popular amongst kids, they’re basically just soft custardy, chilled dessert that you’d get in your school lunch. That context of pudding is pretty much all an American child would be exposed to, so boiling pudding is the equivalent of like, boiling ice cream. It would’ve been super confusing.
You might really enjoy “The Man Who Invented Christmas” starring Matthew Stevens and Charles Plummer, and Jonathan Price (among others). It’s about the writing of “A Christmas Carol.” We see the motivation and also some of the emotional background in Dickens’ life. I think that in a way it helps you to realize how our vision of Christmas is shaped by Dickens and why we feel nostalgic for that time.
I don't think he hates Christmas during the Fozziwig party. Instead, he's just surprised at how much the party costs and Fozziwig saying "Don't worry about it". The breakup scene implies that Scrooge is more and more concerned with money. So he HAS changed.
Yeah, my thought is that he was ambivalent about Christmas, not thinking of it as super special, perhaps due to his upbringing. Finding Belle changes him for a little while, but he reverts back to his natural state after awhile, something Belle doesn't appreciate.
@@tgbotg Yes, that's how I see it too. Belle's character does make sense in that context. When she meets him, he's being introduced by an old friend who describes him as "the finest young financial mind in the city." So, the information she has on first sight is that he's smart, ambitious, and highly recommended by someone who's opinion she respects. He's also handsome, well-mannered, and seems interested in her. Your right that he would change for a while after meeting Belle. It's very common for a person to show their best selves when they're excited to be in a new relationship and are trying to impress someone. And yes, that does inevitably fade and they go back to their natural states over time. It would also be very normal for Belle to focus on his good traits and his potential and to hope that the negatives that she does see would be what would fade over time. As he becomes colder and more distant, she'll stay for a while with the hope that something is only temporarily making him act out of character and he'll go back to normal eventually. Hopefully it will be like he says, and things will be better once he's got the secure job and is less stressed about financial stability. After a while though she'll finally accept that this IS normal for him and the way he was at the beginning was the part when he was acting out of character. That's when they break up. It's far from an unheard-of relationship arc.
@@tgbotg Yes, that's how I see it too. Belle's character does make sense in that context. When she meets him, he's being introduced by an old friend who describes him as "the finest young financial mind in the city." So, the information she has on first sight is that he's smart, ambitious, and highly recommended by someone who's opinion she respects. He's also handsome, well-mannered, and seems interested in her. Your right that he would change for a while after meeting Belle. It's very common for a person to show their best selves when they're excited to be in a new relationship and are trying to impress someone. And yes, that does inevitably fade and they go back to their natural states over time. It would also be very normal for Belle to focus on his good traits and his potential and to hope that the negatives that she does see would be what would fade over time. As he becomes colder and more distant, she'll stay for a while with the hope that something is only temporarily making him act out of character and he'll go back to normal eventually. Hopefully it will be like he says, and things will be better once he's got the secure job and is less stressed about financial stability. After a while though she'll finally accept that this IS normal for him and the way he was at the beginning was the part when he was acting out of character. That's when they break up. It's far from an unheard-of relationship arc.
Regarding the whole "pudding" idea: historically, a pudding is a method of cooking, where you use a wrapping of some sort to keep your ingredients together while you boil it. You could have all different types of puddings, but the invention of the pudding cloth (which is re-usable, as opposed to previous versions which were basically haggis-adjacent sausages) made puddings much less expensive to make. As such, it became popular as a lower-class way of cooking a relatively large meal for a family. Because it's basically just "stuff somthing in a cloth and boil it", you can have egg or milk-based puddings (which tended to be more desserts), or meat or bread-based puddings (which tended to be more of the main course, although the bread puddings were arguably more cake-like). Americans leaned towards the custard-style desert puddings (custard was developed separately, but merged with puddings as a name and concept), as Americans usually didn't need to make main-course style puddings, as they had other things they wanted to eat. However, the dessert-style puddings were still moderately popular. In the 1840's a food scientist was able to develop custard powder (which was cornstarch-based), which was WAY easier to use as a thickening agent, and so Americans went even more towards puddings as desserts. So, yeah - Americans consider puddings to be custard-deserts because we stopped using the pudding style of cooking for main courses, but still used it for desserts to make custards (and thus the names converged). Whereas in England it was originally a main course, but became more of a dessert, and then a synonymn for the dessert course, but still included cake-style puddings. (And historically a few savory puddings, such as black pudding, still exist.) EDIT: Sources - the Wikipedia article on "pudding", a "history of pudding" timeline on a food history website that came up in my Google search, and (I think) a "Tasting History with Max Miller" RUclips episode on puddings that I watched a few weeks ago.
Thanks a bundle for another little, historical lesson, knowledge that I pleased to have. Not only for my own pleasure but something that this particular food and word buff looks forward to showing off with. Sould I just mention that the local Scandinavian black pudding ('blood sausage' ) has been a VERY traditional, local dish, especially at Christmas, ever since our Viking days - and probably earlier. Merry Christmas
Yes, literally no American kid who isn't a GBBO addict (which wasn't a thing when this was made) or doesn't have a historic-baking minded or anglophile parent is going to think "pudding" is anything other than a cold, well, pudding...goopy sweet stuff made from powder pudding mix and chilled in the fridge, or that came out of a plastic pudding cup from a grocery store. Wouldn't call it a custard or know what that meant, either. "Boiled pudding" or calling all dessert "pudding" are completely alien.
@@Eet_Miacan’t speak for the whole country, but in Louisiana we baked bread puddings, they were never boiled. It’s not a custard but contains all the custardy ingredients.
This is lovely. I adore your videos. I'm a 34 year old american and i can safely say that i never heard of pudding, that was not what the english would call a custard, until watching Bake Off. Even now... if you say you've made pudding, everyone would expect custard-- unless they knew you were British, then they would not be sure what you bringing-- something with meat or a dessert or a custard-- no one would know for sure.
The best thing about this adaptation is that Michael Caine treats the Muppets as fellow actors instead of just fuzzy fictional puppets on an elevated platform. He really brought his A-Game to this adaptation.
"OK Michael, it's a Muppet movie, you're the only human actor in the film, feel free to play with it, have some fun" "Nope, I'm going to play it absolutely arrow-straight!"
Michael Caine is a professional. Much as a professional plumber doesn't discriminate based on the circumstances of his client, neither does he worry about the nature of his co-workers.
@@bobkatfan2013 Tim Curry decided to play Silver as the most charismatic bombastic pirate he could, I think the Henson Company had to up their game to jeep up with him honestly
I read an interview once where Michael Caine said (paraphrased), “The only way this movie will work is if I play this 100% seriously, as if I’m working alongside human actors.”
The Ghost of Christmas Past puppet was originally filmed in a big tank of baby oil to get that slow moving etheral effect. The team found that the baby oil became difficult to work with and clean from the tank and puppet so filmed the remaining scenes with the puppet submerged in water :)
I was sceptical that I'd enjoy such a long video, but I've found it incredibly informative. Also, I've just realised for the first time that the additional Marley is given the name Robert, which surely must be a reference to Bob Marley.
Random thoughts about the whole thing: "Marley was dead, to begin with." reading this as an adult made me realise this was a horror story. It's such a perfect opening line to lead in to the ensuing horrors. "If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." is one of the coldest lines and brutal echoes in all of fiction. I love the Danish subs making a gravy/grave pun itself which I still remember to this day: "I er snarere pølser end spøgelser!" You're more like sausages than ghosts! I love the way Sam says "BIZNISS!" I think the reason for Fozziwig's factory being run with his mother is that the Muppets Christmas Special takes place at Fozzie's beloved old mother's house. I think Fozzie doesn't wear shoes because he's a bear. The Jim Carrey version showed the Ghost of Christmas Past murder. God, Kermit's "Good as gold" speech about Tiny Tim gets me every time, and "the first parting" especially. Mickey Mouse's Bob Crachit actually comes off the best of all adaptations. He's made Scrooge's new partner. PINING for leaves! Amazing.
Funny you should mention the horror story aspect. Over the past few weeks I've been listening to a lot of period horror stories on a different channel (Horrorbabble), and they recently put up a telling of this story, and yes it's very much written in the same style - albeit Dickens preceded many of those stories by decades and was likely the inspiration for more than a few of those writers. And I'm with you on the "decrease the surplus population" line. What makes it even more effective is having the otherwise jovial and good hearted spirit of Christmas present repeat Scrooge's words back to him, and in relation to someone he now cares about, so that he gets to hear first-hand how incredibly evil and spiteful those words are. It's an incredible piece of writing.
There’s a line in the Christmas song “Most Wonderful Time of the Year” *There’ll scary ghost stories and tales of the glories of Christmases long, long ago* which suggests ghost stories at Christmas time was a tradition
This is one of my all-time favorite Christmas movies, and it was released while I was in college. However, I have adored the Muppets since I was a little kid. So, in my world, they make stories better. I really love the Muppets treasure Island too. Thank you for covering this for Christmas. My families been having a rough time lately and this cheered me up.
Cool, I've got to check out the Treasure Island one, that's probably the only muppet film I've never seen. I was also no longer a kid when this muppet movie came out, but I loved the movie even then, bc of how much I loved them in my childhood. it's actually pretty awesome how a silly little you tube video can offer mental relief when shit gets hard
There’s a real sense of dedication to this film. It could very easily have just been some cash grab Muppet movie but it’s clear that the filmmakers really did put their all into this. It’s a surprisingly accurate adaptation of A Christmas Carol for one thing and includes a lot of book dialogue, so it at least shows that someone read the book, unlike some adaptations (cough, 2019 BBC miniseries, cough). It’s also just a plain fantastic film. PS, I love that they called the second Marley “Robert”. Y’know, as in Bob. Bob Marley.
The puppet who later became known as One-Eyed Jack played both the prisoner and fruit seller, but was also made for this film. Thus it was a decision to have a new puppet dressed as a stripped prisoner for this film. I believe it really is just a cartoonism, and possibly the director wanting to quickly depict the Christmas spirit even within the jail cells. One-Eyed Jack would only appear in Muppet Treasure island, and Most Wanted.
Yes, American Children would have been VERY confused by the word pudding. When I heard it as a kid in British media, I always pictured what Americans mean by pudding. I wondered why they liked pudding so much.
07:20 There's an interesting radio interview with Paul Williams, songwriter for The Muppet Christmas Carol, where he recounts his struggle with his own demons around the time of writing, and that coming up with lyrics pertaining to the themes of self-imposed loneliness, redemption, love and, of course, sweet seasonal sentiment proved especially therapeutic. The series was called 'The Sound of Cinema' on BBC Radio 3, it should still be available to listen to. Wonderful video! I really enjoyed your informative and witty take on my childhood introduction to A Christmas Carol!
As a history enthusiast and someone who believes a muppet christmas carol to be one of the best Christmas movies of all time, i see this as an absolute win
I love how much detail the costumers put into the clothes the muppets wear. How wild is it that they put characters like Rizzo the rat and Gonzo into period appropriate outfits?
I was watching a costumer review the clothes and she pointed out that, based on the way the clothes bunch and move on the puppets, she's pretty sure they're even wearing the right UNDERWEAR!
One of the things you kept mentioning was how this movie is aimed at very young children. You even said five-year-old several times. What you must keep in mind is that the Muppets had been around since the mid 60s, and popularized on Sesame Street starting in 1969, followed by The Muppet Show in the 70s. The Muppet Christmas Carol wasn’t released until 1992. Most of the fans of the Muppets grew up with them, and at this point were Adults. So, even though a lot of the specific words were modernized and Americanized, as a whole it was as much for adults as for children.
There's a fun little detail from the book this video doesn't mention. (That's not a knock on this video; it's quite long enough as it is.) After he sees Marley's face in the knocker, Scrooge "did pause, with a moment’s irresolution, before he shut the door; and he did look cautiously behind it first, as if he half expected to be terrified with the sight of Marley’s pigtail sticking out into the hall." Michael Caine's Scrooge does this and Gonzo tells Rizzo they need to run inside before he shuts the door, but Rizzo is looking for his jellybeans and Gonzo gets the door slammed in the face. LOL.
@@kohakuaiko Nice!! what's crazy is that when I was watching Nicole and other Dress Historian RUclipsrs talk about the surprisingly accurate costumes in this, I never stopped to think about how the film came out in 1992 - meaning the costume designers couldn't just pop online and pull up thousands of digitized primary source documents and images to use as inspiration or to verify a style choice; they had to use physical resources they/their costuming company either owned or found in libraries. Don't get me wrong, I know people understood historic dress before the Internet Age. But I think it would have been so much harder for anyone who wasn't a literal expert in specific eras of fashion to create an entire film's-worth of suitable costumes in an era where you're stuck looking at copies of The Delineator on microfiche for inspiration 😅
I think Michael Caine, plays the best Scrooge ever I think the characters that personalities come through as someone who watched the Muppets growing up even before they were quite as child friendly example Muppets take Manhattan. It was for a little older kids. There was a lot of innuendo I always loved it. It was so sweet and everyone did such a great job.
As an American I had never heard of puddings until I dated a British woman in my 30's. We're very good here at "pudding erasure". Absolutely love your reactions & contents & have a merry Christmas 2023!🎅
I'm not sure why North Americans (I'm Canadian) don't do steamed puddings anymore. Maybe it's because they're a lot of work. Maybe it's because they're made with suet and it's hard to find. I have English grandparents and English in-laws so I have traditional recipes for Christmas pudding and "spotted dick" (do NOT look that up without the modifying words "pudding" and "recipe"). You know a recipe is old when it tells you to grate the nutmegs.
I grew up with bread puddings. We always baked them in a water bath, which is guess is similar to boiling? Otherwise, I always think of puddings as Jello puddings, which are the cheapest, saddest dessert imaginable and it would be too sad if all the Cratchits could afford was a jello pudding. @@LegendStormcrow
I just looked up the recipe for British Christmas pudding. I don't even know where you get dried currents in Missouri and suet??? The crap we put in the bird feeder? That can't be right! Pecan pie it is!@@LegendStormcrow
For those unfamiliar with puddings & looking for recipes; do take a butcher's at Mrs Crocombe's over on the English Heritage channel: ruclips.net/video/3XOKmaElzqw/видео.html
This Muppet Christmas Carol has one the most hauntingly beautiful songs in it. Between Belle and Scrooge when they are breaking up they sing the song "When Love is Gone" It showed that they really did love each other but time, circumstance and a change in desires, proved to each of them that the relationship would not work. Reprised at the end of the movie and reworded to "The Love We Found" " When Love is Gone" was cut from the original film release, because it was thought thought it slowed down the action too much. Then it was restored to the VHS release, Then cut again from the DVD release (on the DVD, it was added to the bonus scenes in the menu).
We have a VHS of A Christmas Carol. It still has the love is gone in it. When I watch the movie on Disney+ realized they had cut it, I just about lost it. It's such an important song to the scene and movie overall
I believe “Fuzziwig and Mom” is a call back to the TV special “A Muppet Family Christmas” which took place at Fozzie’s Mom’s house. That special also ended with a rare Jim Henson appearance and I think is one of if not the last time all the muppet tv shows were in one spot. “A Muppet Christmas Carol” is the first big Muppet project after Jim Henson died and that his son, Brian Henson, directed. All that to say, I’m not surprised they used Fozzie’s Mom in this adaptation (unless she’s in the original book?).
Dickens used to go around the world reading his books out on stage, it was noted that one couple who owned a factory was so inspired by the tale that they would give their workers a half day off, Scrooge wasn't that bad
What you said about Scrooge having more of a character arc in the original text really stuck with me, and it made me realise why I always found Bill Murray's "Scrooged" to be more satisfying for that reason - he starts out as a hopeful child to a stern father, becomes a playful young man, but loses his joy somewhere. I suppose, since their protagonist isn't as aged as Dickens' Scrooge, that's how they justified him being able to rekindle his youthful romance with his love interest
@@kevinsullivan8737 It's a fun movie, highly recommend, without spoiling details it's set in (the then-modern day) 1988 and is, as a result, one of the 80s-est movies I've ever seen
I have a very hard time at Christmas and this truly lifted my spirits! Just watching The Muppets Christmas Carol wouldn’t have done it. I needed the critique to really do it 😃. Thank you and Merry Christmas 🎄
Holiday themed? I've never been on holiday at Christmas time. The closest I've ever come was one New year when my family rented the youth hostel in the Devils Punchbowl, which was nice. Ah wait, when you said holiday, did you mean something other than "vacation", presumably in order to be non denominational by avoiding reference to a Christian borrowing of a pagan midwinter celebration?
I still find myself humming the songs from this movie around this time, even though it's been years since I have sat down and watched the movie in its entirety.
@@daveash9572 actually the last one, I’m a devoted pagan, but acknowledge that parts of old keltic, roman and various other traditions are mixed into what is considered traditional. For more info:Jazz Emu 2021 music about the season 😂
Yeah, exactly. Plus that's where their portions of the Star Wars films were shot. I suspect they were very plugged into London culture well before this movie.
I kinda like the "Scrooge & Marley" (singular) sign. Aside from better matching the book, I feel like it helps save the "big reveal" for later (though it is hinted at earlier). Also, assuming one brother died first, perhaps the other changed the sign, and then Scrooge was too cheap to replace it after the other's demise. That's my headcanon, anyway :) Finally, having a firm with 2+ repeated surnames is such a tired trope in fiction, I'm glad they reigned in their old jokes a bit ;)
I’ve always loved this movie for the snippets of actual Dickens peppered throughout. For lines like “As solitary as an oyster” is why we still hold his writing in such high regard. No one could describe a character that perfectly.
9:30 it makes sense within the film universe as well though. Scrooge probably convinced them that repeating the name on the door sign would be a waste of money, and removing the name altogether after their passing would be even more money spent unnecessarily.
I was so surprised watching some live-action Christmas carol mini-series and realizing I liked muppet version a lot more because of how accurate it was! And realised one part of why it works, it's because others are muppets, Scrooge is a way more imposing figure to them, which is great. :D
I had never seen the Muppet version, but I'm an old lady and have been a Dickens fangirl all my life. I love the stories, but also did some deep dives into how he published them serially and then bound as one book. I remember being a small child and watching A Christmas Carol with Alistair Sim as Scrooge (1951) in the 1960s on our black and white television. That's still my favorite version. Divinely creepy. I found it here on YT and have it saved to watch tomorrow, Christmas Eve. Thank you so much for making this, I really enjoyed your version.
The bit where Scrooge tries to snuff out the Ghost of Christmas Past is actually shown in the 2009 Christmas Carrol staring a motion-captured Jim Carrey. It’s made even more over the top as the spirit’s metal cap flies up like a rocket, launching Scrooge over the London skyline.
The clothing historian Nicole Rudolph has a short series of videos where she recreates Gonzo's costume for herself. I highly recommend it, if you want a dose of clothing history.
Her channel in general is delightful. The Gonzo/Dickens outfit series is fantastic because it is SO detailed. So many individual pieces, all made by hand, as period-accurate and Gonzo-accurate as humanly possible. All the while placing it in context of the time setting. I also love her historically accurate Aziraphale-as-belle-epoque-lady videos.
I’d love it if you made reviewing various Christmas Carol adaptations a series! I think going from the goofy Muppets version to the truly terrifying George C. Scott version would be so goooooood
I agree, and would personally love to see Mr Magoo's christmas carol covered. It's a lot less accurate, and a lot more jokey, but it's probably tied with Muppets' as my favorite adaptations
I would watch each of them. My favorite film for the season by far. I know most of the lines from the book by heart. The GCS version is my favorite because Tiny Tim actually looks like a kid, because I grew up with it, and because it did show how he fell away from society and then was admitted back into it, which is a theme that obsesses me, and which sadly does seem to be missing from this version, which otherwise I quite like.
@@axolirvin971 I think the Magoo version is the scariest of the lot. Jim Baccus had a powerful voice and really let fly with his interpretation . Before that was the Sim version, which I watched up until the Muppet version was released.
If anyone wants to teach their kids what "pudding" is but don't want to go through a week of boiling and steaming things in a cubic meter of cognac, may I recommend sticky toffee pudding! Made with dates, covered in warm toffee sauce and topped with vanilla ice cream or custard it's a very nice treat kids really love and it's very wintery and a great decadent Christmas dessert! I've been making it for a few years now and its always a hit.
It was an absolute pleasure spending an hour with you talking about all of this! As an American, I would like to apologize for the "Pudding Erasure". Yes the vast majority of people here (especially children) would not have understood references to pudding, in our vernacular, it refers to a very specific type of dessert and would have made no sense in the context.
As a kid singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas the line about figgy pudding raised some questions, promptly (& correctly) answered by my dad. It never occurred to me until years later that this was a gap in *American* knowledge. I just figured it was something that kids didn't know but adults did. 🤷🏻♀️
I don't believe I've ever seen a British pudding in person, and would have to look up how to make figgy pudding. In my estament, they likely went extinct in the mid 1800's this side of the Ocean.
I teach that song to my students every year and it wasn't until fairly recently that I heard one of the kids singing by himself and he was singing "Now bring us some friggin' puddin'!" I had to go back and reteach and now I always wonder how many years worth of kids learned to sing it like that! @@urbanpoodle
Agreed. I'm an adult, have spent several months in a country where pudding does not mean what it does in America, and my understanding of everyone-else-pudding is still only "I think it's sort of like a cake, except when it isn't." I was very confused when I was younger and made a pudding recipe from an older cookbook and the result in no way resembled pudding.
Thanks for a fascinating assessment. I've always loved this film, and am pleased that it is even more faithful, both to the book and the costume, than I had thought. I agree that the young Ebenezer not enjoying Fezziwig's celebrations was a bit jarring, as I felt that the message was a reminder that he already had a capacity for joy within him. But overall, it works, and I think is one of Michael Caine's finest performances. My favourite line? "LIGHT THE LAMP, NOT THE RAT!!!!" 😆
Yeah, I guess it doesn't really change the meaning of the story much to make Scrooge always on the side of miserliness, but I do like the version of young Scrooge in the book who most fervently puts away the work things and is down to party.
One thing i love about michael caines decision to play as if the muppets were people is that it opens an avenue for deeply anaylising how scrooge see people around him. He sees those that work for him as rats and frogs and the women as sows mainwhile those he does see as human are his family and those who are clearly upper class
An interesting take, but I wonder if it doesn't interpret into Scrooge's character an elitism that isn't really expressed from him in the book. He is alone, miserly, and miserable, but as far as I know he has never been depicted as classist or elitist or the like.
@adamsmall5598 potentialy. Im not sure how well the human as upper class holds as i havent done a frame by frame analysis of the crowd to see but there is a definetly theme with how scrooges family all being human in his eyes as well as his fiance
I don’t know who said this first, but the best thing about Christmas Carol and Muppet Treasure island is that Michael Caine treated the muppets as if they were actors and Tim Curry treated himself like a Muppet.
Thank you for pre-warning us that you don't think this movie is perfect and magical, I really needed to brace myself! There's something about the layer of abstraction provided by puppetry or cartoons that allows for a kind of emotional storytelling that works really well with this sort of story, which I think is why people get so attached to this adaptation and find others difficult to get into.
One of my favourite things about a Christmas Carol is that Scrooge isn’t necessarily portrayed as a man who will go to any lengths to make money. He is miserly, sure, but he doesn’t break laws, he does everything that is legally required of him as an employer. Dickens was trying to say that simply doing no evil and following the law was not necessarily enough to be good. You had to go out of your way to be charitable, and many found that controversial. It says it is not ok to be blissfully ignorant. I think some rich people need to realise that today
We really need to raise our standards in the modern day...
[This message has been directed towards every multimillionaire]
especially, *especially* since when adjusting for inflation, Scrooge was paying above multiple countries' minimum wages of today💀
Celebrate Yule/Winter Solstice like the pagans did? That's how I celebrate...🌠✨✨❄️
@@mollymcnaughton3133Does never having been Christened count as being a Pagan? If it does I'm a natural and all for it. I hate the commercialisation of Christmas in our Western Culture and I'm pretty sure it's diametrically opposite to the Christian Prophet's central message.....
@@purplepedantry
Do you mean Bernie Sanders?
I’m a “muppets is the best adaptation” person. My favourite aspects are how closely they quote the text and Michael Caine’s performance. He supposedly said he was going to play it completely straight like it was a theatre drama. Just brilliant.
I came to say this if no one else had. I remember seeing an interview with him where he said he made a very conscious decision when he took the role to treat the Muppets the same way he would any other costars.
American kids are very opinionated when they see or hear of food they are not familiar with, like boiled pudding. I can imagine kids going “ewwww.” I’ve dealt with plenty of spoiled American kids showing disgust at foreign foods. 😢
@@hbanana7what?
That’s what I heard too. That’s why it’s so good.
He said he was going to play it as if the Muppets were actually classically-trained thespians.
Conversely, Tim Curry decided to play Long John Silver as if he were also a Muppet.
They are both correct.
Yes, American children would be confused by pudding. I, a Canadian, was confused by British pudding when I started reading books like Agatha Christie. Our pudding is only ever a sweet goop that is kind of a custard consistency in a variety of flavours from chocolate or vanilla to banana or pistachio.
I grew up with "bread pudding" and "Indian pudding" and a heavy diet of British literature and television shows so...who knows.
I think most US kids are familiar with bread pudding, which is closer to a British pudding, though still not the same. We used to have bread pudding every so often and I think it stands out to kids because there just aren't too many desserts you light on fire.
Best not to speak for all of Canada, since we are so big. In Atlantic Canada (especially, but not only, Newfoundland) we eat plenty of Christmas pudding.
@@shannonsenzig1676although I had heard of it as a kid, I was not familiar with what it was like until my 30s? Lol. I want to say it's more of an eastern/southern coastal thing.
American and I love plum pudding on Boxing Day with my British friends. Still when I hear pudding I think jiggly, gooey American pudding.
From what I heard, this was the first Muppet movie made after Jim Henson's death and his son, Brian Henson, really put his heart and soul into it. It was a project fueled by grief and everyone wanted to get it just right, all the way down to the costuming. I imagine that dedication comes through to us the audience as well, which is why its such a classic to many.
Nicole Rudolph, one of the costume historians in RUclips, did an analysis of the costumes going along with a project to recreate one of the looks, and her analysis was that the costumes were very accurate, and actually one of the better versions in that regard.
The speech that Bob gives about many partings while influenced by the book itself I think was mainly Kermit's Puppeteer speaking about the loss of Jim
Jim Henson's death was a shock because he died of pneumonia at 53. He didn't realize how sick he was and go to the hospital until it was too late.
@@scribbly2983it was shocking even to those of us who were young people at the time.
@@Masquaradethewriter I was five at the time, and his was the first death I was ever aware of. I was devastated, and I think I was vaguely under the impression that Muppets content would no longer be on television.
I don't think Scrooge hired the rats as bookkeeping staff, they're just the normal city amount of rats and he said "Well if you're going to be occupying space in my office you're going to have to make yourself useful."
Weird ways that a world with muppets would be different but I think it makes enough sense.
You know what, given how rat infested London was at the time, I’m going to accept that as ‘accurate’
I mean he took it too far but I’ll be damned if Scrooge wasn’t industrial 😂 no free loading rats!
You can look at it that way or you can view this through scrooges eyes and how he sees certain sections of society in this cases he sees his lower class employees as thieving rats while he sees cratchit and the other middle managers as cowardly frogs
@@Ericshadowblade As I said on your other post, I'm not sure this is true to the story at all. Admittedly, I am no Dickens expert, but I do not ever remember this being presented as a part of Scrooge's character.
@adamsmall5598 i dont know if it is in the novel its just an angle that you can use when your analysing this version
The bit with the scarf always gets me, because the way Caine plays it; its clear that this is the first present he's been given in a LONG time and he isn't sure what to do with it. He was so focused on making amends that he never once considered people would be nice to him in return.
That's the moment that broke me, this year
Every single time 😢
He dons it like a badge of honour
Amen. If it weren't already full of muppets, Caine's portrayal alone would make this worth watching.
The use of the Gonzo as a narrator to get Dickens' prose in is why this is my favorite adaptation. Those lines are just so good.
Abby Cox made a fantastic video about how insanely accurate the costumes are! They even made sure that less wealthy characters were wearing 1830's clothes, since not everyone can afford to keep up with the latest fashions.
Yes! Abby's video is phenomenal! It's one of my favorite RUclips videos ever.
Nicole Rudolph also has a video series where she makes Gonzo's outfit from this movie, shoes included.
I'm very surprised she didn't cover the fact that Gonzo's Dickens Character *explicity* gives a call to action to the viewer to consider reading the book just prior to the end credits.
I would have thought that would have given the Muppets' depiction of this story some well-deserved bonus points.
I always remember feeling very happy with that final suggestion from Gonzo as a kid.
It gives the original source material such a great amount of acknowledgement and respect/deference.
I wish she'd highlighted it here :-)
Same!
I actually did read the original book because I like the Muppet adaptation so much. It had that suggestion, and I figured that most of Gonzo's great lines were from the book, so I read it.
The narration from Gonzo is actually why this is one of my favorite adaptations of the Christmas Carol.
I appreciate that Gonzo and Rizzo tell the children that the 3rd ghost will be scary. It also breaks the 4th wall and the tension of the scene. Its a smart way to take away the drama because it is made for children. This would not be done for an adult audience. And personally as a parent, I appreciate the tip off.
Well analyzed!
That doesn't sound that much unlike something Dickens would've done, actually. He kept a good balance between dark and funny moments.
@petraw9792
Thank you for the info about Dickens. I didn't know that about his writing.
@@carakellmeyer5037 I was mainly referring to A Christmas Carol, actually.
Watched it with little children this year, and they were quite scared the 3rd ghost. 😁
Michael Caine’s performance is amazing because he didn’t act like he was preforming against muppets, he played the role seriously as if the rest of the cast were live actors.
That's what the best of the Muppet movies do.
Meanwhile, Tim Curry acted like a fellow Muppet in Treasure Island, which is equally amazing.
@@AroAceGamer that would be because Tim Curry IS a muppet, in the best possible way.
@@missarose6159 Lmao. True.
I see you also saw that tumbler post that was reposted on reddit.
When I taught 4th grade I would read A Christmas Carol to my students every year. After we finished, I would show the movie in class. The muppet version immediately came to mind, but for academic value I wanted to use the version that was the closest to the book that I could find. Keeping that in mind, I looked through several versions. The muppet version came out the winner anyway, even when considering it on equal grounds with many of the other classic adaptations. The deciding factor ended up being the sheer number of lines that were quoted directly from the book.
The George C. Scott has always been my favorite, but it is scary at moments.
Yeah I think this version, for the most part, is faithful where it counts.
The most faithful adaptation I have ever seen is the 1999 version with Patrick Stewart.
@lbatemon1158 Is that the one where the Ghost of Christmas Future sends Scrooge to Hell down a dark tunnel? (I think it was Hell anyway, it's been a long time since I saw it.)
I agree. If it hadn't been the muppets then it would have been either the George C. Scott version and the Patrick Stewart version, and that would have been a difficult decision.
Something I really appreciate about A Christmas Carol is that it uses Christmas as a setting, but it’s really focused on how society (well-to-do people in particular) treated the poor. Things have certainly changed since the 1840s of course, but the upper class’ attitude towards the poor not so much. I really respect that the Muppets adaptation faithfully brought that into their version
Ooh - Madeline PFP!
I really appreciate this explanation! Thanks!
Yeah, the problem isn't that scrooge doesn't like Christmas, it's that if you can't at least be decent to each other on Christmas what hope do we have for the rest of the year
George C Scott's version jams the candle "snuffer" on the 1st ghost. Grinding it to the ground--awakening to find himself wringing his blankets, as if strangling thempirit.
I don't disagree with you. But it also was very much about Christmas. Dickens wrote it because he didn't like how people were treating Christmas.
But he also was explicitly using the Spirit of Christmas to push for better conditions for the poor as well. He had other books on this topic, of course. It was a form of activism.
If you haven't seen it, I very much recommend the Annotated A Christmas Carol. It goes heavily into Dickens's intent. He was both a bit proponent of Christmas as well as caring about the poor.
At a pub quiz, the question was 'How many ghosts visited Scrooge in A Christmas Carol?' The consensus in our team was 4 until my wife piped up with 'But there were 5. Both Marley brothers visited him.' This was the definitive version of the story for her.
That’s so amazing and so sweet omg 😭💗
There is, though I cannot post it, a brilliant meme. Patrick Stewart has played Scrooge as well and it has a still image of him looking like he is shouting "there are only FOUR ghosts"
Underneath you have the Muppets Marley and Marley just floating there.
@@mrtalos this sounds brilliant, wish i could find it
In the original book there's 6. Ghost of Christmas Present has 2 ghosts named Ignorance and Want following him
@@genericname2747 I've read the book and I don't remember that at all, funny how the muppet version just pushed out the recollection of the original plot points again.
I quite like the "Who cares about stupid old Christmas?!" line from young Scrooge, as it seems a very natural way for a child to react. He's lonely and stuck at the school, and lashes out at the other kids with that statement, even if deep down he doesn't real feel it's true. He absolutely does care about Christmas at that stage. It's exactly how someone that age, and even some adults, react when they're hurting inside.
I will say in defense of YA Scrooge, after Fozziewig tells him to shut up and enjoy the party, he shuts up and enjoys the party. He may not be as cool as Book Scrooge, but he’s still going on the Scrooge journey from less to more uptight and greedy as he ages and isolates himself from the world.
I don’t know. It IS a natural reaction to lash out when you’re hurting, but I feel they could have done a better job of making it clear that he was speaking out of his pain and really didn’t mean it. For me, personally, the outburst makes it just a bit more difficult to find the character sympathetic- easier to [mis]interpret his isolation as voluntarily self-imposed.
In the book, one gets the sense that if this lonely and abandoned young boy were invited to join his friends, he would have leaped at the opportunity, rather than reacting with defensive hostility.
yeah it seems like both this version of the story and the original both give scrooge a lot of.. implied backstory. Especially with his family. Purely by him saying or hearing things that require that to be the case. They took different routes, but either way the ghost of the past is showing us he changed, without showing us the specific time when he changed (before the flashbacks in this movie, and after the flashbacks in the book. unless there's some part i'm unaware of. haven't read it in some time.)
@@StoryMing one of the hardest things for people to do, especially in the 21st century, is get over the idea of someone's isolation as self-imposed or deserved for their behavior, and focus on just fixing them to what you know they should be, knowing that only some past trauma could have caused this.
@@KairuHakubi
Self-imposed isolation or other hardship is definitely a thing, and Scrooge DOES *absolutely* have moral responsibility for his own life choices. _However,_ in the original book, at this stage in his life, he is abandoned and neglected, which is not of his doing, nor is he shown to be hostile or resentful over it.
To recognize that there are outward forces which had a large bearing in shaping him to be what he became, is NOT, in my opinion, to excuse, condone, or absolve him for what he has done wrong; it is simply to understand better what he needs to overcome and change.
The detail of Fozziwihig and Mom is a nod back to the ‘87 Muppet Family Christmas where every Muppet character, as well as Doc from Canadian Fraggle Rock, end up at Fozzie’s mom’s house.
Watch out for the icy patch!
It’s cold enough to freeze your Winnebago!
I came here to write this. I wish Muppet Family Christmas wasn't so hard to come by.
I suspect "Fuzziwig and Mom" is a reference to the earlier _Muppet Family Christmas_ where Fozzie and pals go and visit his mother for Christmas. And I don't think Fozzie tends to wear shoes--but then, neither does Kermit. That said, Fozzie would be the type to tell a joke about his *bear* feet.
Literally when she pointed that out I was thinking, "Of course he's not wearing shoes, he has BEAR feet" 😂
What I’ve heard from fashion historians online is that the MCC has the most accurate costumes out of all the other filmed CC interpretations. Which is cool because most of the costumes are tiny and muppet sized.
It's also one of the most accurate as far as dialogue. Almost everything the characters other than Gonzo and Rizzo say comes right out of the book.
As an American, I can confidently say that all of the 5-year-olds I’ve known would have been very confused by a British pudding. We do not have any puddings like that in America. 😂 However, as a mom, I’m a big proponent of teaching kids small things in passing. They’re the building blocks of future learning.
I think that fruitcake would be the apt thing to use instead of pudding for North American audiences.
Same. I recall hearing the word from time to time as a kid and always picturing something like Jello brand chocolate pudding.
_Small things in passing_ is the best way to learn. Ideally you keep doing it for yourself even when mom (or dad) is not available.
You talking about anachronisms reminds me of the time the scrap metal merchants came around, sounding their horn as they do. Now, these type of people used to also collect rags and bones, so were known as "rag and bone men". My daughter, who was 4 at the time, asked me who was blowing the horn, and when I told her it was the "rag and bone men" she was frightened, as she imagined a man made out of rags and bones!
Having typed all that out, I wonder if you even have scrap metal collectors in America? They're usually travelling people (who we used to call "Gypsies" but that word is not PC these days) and they go around in a pick-up truck type of vehicle. They blow their horn so that people know that they're there and people can bring out any items containing metal that they want to get rid of. Obviously, the scrap metal merchants extract as much metal as they can and when they have enough to sell they go and get money for it.
@@zappababe8577 I am 67 and grew up in Brooklyn ny. We didn't have rag and bone men. Kirk douglas wrote a book called "the rag man's son" (which he was). That was the first time I heard of it. When I was a kid t knife grinder would come around and ring loud "jingle bells" a d the women would bring out their knives
For Fozziewig and Mom, that's a reference to the 1987 Muppet Family Christmas special. It was a crossover where the Muppets, Sesame Street muppets and Fraggles all wind up at the country home of Fozzie's mother.
It's fantastic, and I highly recommend it. Swedish Chef sees Big Bird and immediately plans to cook him for Christmas dinner. ("Gobla gobla humunga!")
To be fair, though, given that the setting is England, it should be "Fozziwig and Mum," not "Mom."
@@Brasswatchman Excellent point considering this is all about historical accuracy
And then, Swedish Chef immediately changes his mind when Big Bird gives him a present. It's genuinely charming and heartwarming.
@@Brasswatchman not necessarily. In the Midlands, Mom is quite commonly used rather than Mum or Mam. It's not necessarily a straight American/British thing, even if people tend to assume it is.
The Tiny Tim "First parting there was among us" scene is especially somber in this film's context, as this is the first Muppets movie production after the death of Jim Henson. Steve Whitmere's then-recent acquisition of the role of Kermit made his mournful performance in this scene have an extra layer of heartbreak to it.
Oh man! That just makes that scene hit even harder. No wonder Kermit sounded like he was trying not to cry, now I'm trying not to cry
@@wiseforcommonsense possibly Steve *was* trying not to cry!
That scene gets me every time, even just thinking about it.
Oh man. This scene already made me cry and now it's going to be even worse. I was 9 in 1990 and Jim Henson's was the first major death of an artistic creator I admired.
Rowlf was almost entirely retired, as he was one of Henson's personal favorites (and they couldn't retire Kermit). He has a quick cameo in the band at the party, but he's not given any lines until The Muppets with Jason Siegal (and he's probably one of the funniest in the movie).
It's kind of sweet to hear that Dickens' editors were so worried about Tiny Tim that he had to add "Who did NOT die" at the end
Sign of a great writer when the editors are so invested in the story that they worry about a specific character. 🥰
That line always stood out to me as weirdly out of place, as though it were inserted after-the-fact. Fascinating to discover that that's basically what happened.
@@teresaellis7062Sounds more like the editors were concerned about the book not selling well if it had a sad ending.
The line "and to Tiny Tim, who did NOT die, he was a second father" is in the original Dickens. They were just being true to the source material -- but Gonzo's delivery is charming and reassuring.
@@maxinegautier3313that’s what they said…… you’re just rephrasing their statement?
I always interpreted young Scrooge saying "who cares about stupid old Christmas" in this movie as more a resentment about his parent; they pay to get rid of him, basically, and don't let him come home over the winter holidays, and so he says what he says instead of breaking down in front of his classmates in tears because his parents doesn't care enough about him to have him come home.
Yeah, and him starting to be miserly as a young adult because he never wanted to be poor again-- this version being just a little earlier in life.
Exactly! This is the defensive reaction of a child who is hurting, not an expression of actual antipathy toward Christmas itself (as of yet).
He learns to love Christmas and people under Fezziwig
You are exactly right. I'm a teacher and have worked with countless elementary students, and I can tell you that the "who cares about stupid old Christmas" outburst would be a very normal thing to come from a neglected child. He's disappointed and hurt so he tries to make himself feel a little better by telling himself that he doesn't actually want what he's missing. At the same time, he also has his defenses way up because he's afraid of looking pathetic to his peers and becoming an object of pity. That's why the lines that set him off were "Hurry up Ebenezer, the last coach is leaving," "Come on, he never goes home for Christmas."
It's so amazing that you did this comparison, my boyfriend and I were talking about it the other day. He told me, and I verified on the Wiki page, that Michael Caine said ""I'm going to play this movie like I'm working with the Royal Shakespeare Company. I will never wink, I will never do anything Muppety. I am going to play Scrooge as if it is an utterly dramatic role and there are no puppets around me." And he did an incredible job!
Also, we sadly do not grow up knowing what a Christmas pudding is honestly. Not unless you're the strange child who sits in the corner reading books all the time. . . 😂 Although it didn't understand it well until I was an adult and watched GBBS for the first time ❤
In regards to Miss Piggy's style... I feel like at least part of it is emphasizing that the Cratchits don't have enough money for her to BE fashionable. Her clothing is neat and well-cared for, but her husband certainly didn't have the money to keep her up to date.
Yes, it's like she found the prettiest things she could in the secondhand shop and decided not to care if they were a decade out of style.
Yes but 99% of people watching the film would not have understood the subtle differences in Miss Piggy’s costume to be reflective of 1830s vs 1840s style…
@@maryanneslater9675secondhand clothing shops themselves would be a historical anachronism…
@@maddieb.4282Even if secondhand shops are an anachronism, secondhand clothing surely is not. They may not have had Goodwill and Salvation Army stores, but the fashionably dressed would have done *something* with their old fashions.
This is confirmed in the directors commentary. They deliberately gave Piggy outfits a few years and slightly not in fashion because they would of been cheaper secondhand.
I really like Gonzo as Dickens. Most adaptations feel like a stage play, or a movie adapted from a stage play, to the point that you would think A Christmas Carol was originally a play, and not a novel/novella. Gonzo as Dickens gives it much more of a "storyteller" feel.
I recall the reasoning for that is children are presented here with the Muppets ( for childhood joy) that may, in time, make an older child or young adult want to read the actual story.
Honestly in material where the narrator's voice adds so much, I wish I saw this kind of narrator-as-character insert more often. Eg. Any future adaptation of anything Douglas Adams has ever written
@@InnuendoXPI love how The Guide takes the role of narrator in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy radio plays. It lets more of Douglas Adams’ writing get in.
The perfect finishing touch is when the characters finish singing, and as the credits begin to roll we hear Rizzo's voice saying "Great story, Mr. Dickens," and Gonzo answers, "Thanks. Hey, if you liked this then you should read the book."
I think Dickens would've approved. He started the endless adaptations of this story with his live readings, where he was constantly revising it to make it work for a live audience.
I’ve taught A Christmas Carol to 8th graders for several years, and I’m so happy you spent time on the Ghost of Christmas Past! So hard to make sense of that description, and SO MUCH WEIRDER than you expect. I see the Ghost as a representation of a candle and, in some ways, like memory (our ability to hold many “ages” in our memory).
I'd forgotten how great Michael Caine was in this role! In one of his books he mentioned how much fun he had being involved with this movie, and the respect he had for the Henson crew....Thank you so much for doing this!
36:07 I think Scrooge's awkward dance is more than just to accommodate the puppet. He's been a shriveled up old crank for so long he's lost a lot of strength and flexibility, which means now that he's moving in unaccustomed ways looks awkward and painful because it's so strangeand difficult. It reinforces the huge change he's suddenly making in his life.
Also, in my experience, there is no Christmas pudding in the US. Maybe in some specific families, up in New England. I'm in my 50s and am still a little confused about pudding that gets boiled and set on fire. Pudding, in my experience, comes from a box and sets up in the fridge, but I've never been very fancy. 😁
@@adoxartist1258it varies from family to family. I was born and raised in California, and my mom used to make steamed Persimmon Pudding. Similar in many ways to Christmas pudding, and we sometimes ate it at Christmas, with hard sauce (butter, powdered sugar, and liquor).
It tends to be more like a cake with certain wintery fruits in it. The cake part is often made with brandy, if i recall correctly. It tended to end up pretty dry so they boiled it to make it easier to eat. Due to the alcholal content it was set on fire to make it taste of brandy and minimise the intoxication effect. @@adoxartist1258
@christajennings3828 Very cool! I've never seen anything about Christmas pudding outside British shows and movies. Happy Holidays! Merry Christmas! Happy 2024!
The whole thing with the Ghost of Christmas present having a bad short-term memory is actually my favorite addition, about how he is always living in the present. I'm surprised that other adaptations haven't included that.
Also just because you mentioned it several times, yes children would be confused by "pudding" and frankly many adults because Christmas pudding is not a thing here. Also we understand pudding a a chocolate-y mouse type of thing, which I know is not what British people mean by pudding
We DON'T have Christmas pudding in the US, not as a standard tradition. Just yesterday I was having to explain what a 'figgy pudding' was to my dad, because he had spent 83 years thinking the song said 'sticky pudding'. I had to explain the whole flaming Christmas pudding to him, he was truly ignorant on the fact.
The closest parallel to this I can come up with as a Brit, is that I have in my life heard the word Poindexter twice, once in a song, and once in Dodgeball, and it took a considerable amount of digging for me to find out what it meant.
Ummm, ok
@@kwd3109 Great conversation.
Heh. "Piggy pudding."
You did ...but u don't anymore...watch Townsemds 18th century cooking videos on plum pudding etc x think it just died out
Obviously it's as accurate as possible because it was narrated by Charles Dickens himself! And his rat friend helped a little too. 😊
Loved this comment ❤️❤️❤️
Little known fact, Salacious Crumb was actually based on Dicken's rat partner
Oh hey! I can't tell if you just skipped past it for time, but if you haven't seen it, I recommend the cut with Belle's song, When Love Has Gone, that was left out of the theatrical release. (It's finally on Disney+, in the extras, as "full length version" or some such!) It makes Rizzo's bawling make more sense, it marks the emotional turning point for present-day Scrooge, the very next song says Christmas is "in all the places we find love", and the ending song, The Love We Found, is a direct reprise that brings the whole thing full circle. As good a movie as it is without that song, it's on another level with it included.
It was on the VHS copy. We didn't realize it was an extended cut until we got it on DVD years later.
We always fast-forwarded the song. We were excited to finally have a skip scene button, but we didn't even need it.
As a musician and composer though, I will agree that the musical reprise makes the cut a weird decision, and as an adult I see its appeal.
Oh, it's in the extras! I was very confused when I watched it on Disney+ this Xmas just gone and saw the song wasn't there, despite reading in more than one place that it was added back in.
@@Richard_Nickerson The version with the song is now called the extended cut but in reality it is the theatrical cut. The song there when I saw the movie in the theater in the 90’s. Some daft executive thought the song was too boring for children so he cut it from the first DVD edition. After a lot of uproar from fans it was placed back in the so-called extended edition on Blu ray.
@@thulcandran
It wasn't "some daft executive", it was based on what people said coming out of the theaters.
I got to tell people asking about Pride, Prejudice, & Zombies that they messed up the whole thing when I walked out of theaters, but I don't think enough people complained with me.
This is standard movie-making procedure.
Edit: Again, it always existed on the VHS, and it *is* an option on the regular DVD. You're acting as if it completely disappeared when the comment you're responding to already disproves that.
32:52 Can we just mention that Caine's acting here is immaculate? The way he makes you feel the regrets of a broken old man? Or maybe that's just a little too close to home for me right now.
While this was absolutely made (at least largely) for a US audience, the Jim Henson Company did a lot of work in England, including filming 5 seasons of The Muppet Show there, and Frank Oz (Miss Piggy among others) was even born in England (and has lived there off and on during his life) so I suspect many of the core people involved were familiar with the differences between US and British Christmas, but made the changes intentionally.
And for most people in the US, if they have heard of "Christmas pudding" it is because they have read/seen a version of A Christmas Carol, that has it in it , but may not know exactly what it is supposed to be. Not only is it not a tradition here, but "pudding" now refers to a completely different set of deserts (like custards).
I am an American in my mid-50's and have had my first ever "pudding" in the UK style over thanksgiving.
I would say we would most understand it as a dessert bread.
For us, pudding is closer to what the UK calls custard, though our puddings are generally sweeter than UK custards.
Also, for a lot of us, a pudding comes in a small box and you add the powder to milk.
@@MonkeyJedi99 I wonder how close american pudding is to angel delight, which is an add powder to milk dessert we have in the UK.
@@RAFMnBgaming I'd been thinking much the same thing.
I love that Michael approached this movie like a serious adaptation, and treated the Muppets like fellow actors. A bit like how Tim Curry, in Muppets Treasure Island, went full Muppet himself and became one with the cast in a different way.
I believe he was quoted as saying he would only do it if he could play it as if he was on stage with the Royal Shakespeare Company. (Also, a cute little detail I found out when Googling for that quote. Apparently, his other reason was that his daughter was 7 at the time and really wanted to see a film her dad was in, but none of his work from the time was age appropriate. So he did it so she could see it.)
@@ghostmadlittlemiss 'for the kids' is also why Raul Julia did Street Fighter.
I expect that is why Michael Caine was chosen. It seems to me a directorial decision was taken to make a faithful, honest and accurate adaptation so they needed an English actor with gravitas.
I completely agree, except that Muppet Tim Curry is, in fact, his truest form. 😂
I would expect nothing less from a Muppet production. I think we have this tendency to dismiss children's programs as frivolous or "not real" somehow but I can't really think of a time when Jim Henson's Creature Workshop ever had that attitude. They tend to put in the thought and the work.
Abby Cox did a great video looking specifically at the costumes from the perspective of a costume historian, and Nicole Rudolph has one where she remakes Gonzo’s (main) Dickens costume from the movie (generally the costumes are all shockingly accurate considering they’re mostly on puppets).
Yes! I love this version partly because of the costumes, they're more accurate than a lot of other adaptations I've seen and it made me irrationally happy
My favorite part is the observation that Gonzo’s shoes are on the wrong feet.
Nicole’s gonzo costume made me envious. ❤
@@sarahleanos129 Well, they would be, wouldn't they? 😆
Would American children be confused by Christmas pudding? Yes. 😂 I was also confused by “sweetmeats” which showed up a few times in the books I liked to read. I mean, it’s good to bridge those culture gaps, too, so maybe they could have left the pudding in. But yes, Americans being confused by British pudding is a thing!
And I understand that generally, "pudding" means dessert, not necessarily what us North Americans would think of as pudding. Of course, in this context, "pudding" means Christmas pudding.
Yeah and pudding is a very specific thing here.
Americans also don't have many boiled desserts in the style of figgy pudding, which Americans have heard of from carolers singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas, but aren't likely to have had it.
What Is Christmas Pudding?
@@JDraper I did not know it's traditionally set on fire!
If you really want to nerd out about the costumes in The Muppet Christmas Carol, I highly recommend Abby Cox's video on the movie's costumes. Also, Nicole Rudolph did a series of videos where she created a historically accurate, human sized version of Gonzo's costume. Both of them pretty much conclude that the movie's costuming was insanely impressive by any standard, and absolutely mind blowing when you consider that its target audience was kids who weren't even old enough to read, let alone know anything about historical clothing.
We do not have Christmas pudding in America. In fact I have had several conversations having to explain what a pudding is, even though I myself have never had one, but most Americans are only familiar with the custard-like dessert pudding. Then to further confuse us Americans I have to add in that pudding is sometimes used as a name for dessert and not just the dish.
They use "tea" to refer to entire meals!
One of the things I love about the Muppets Christmas Carol is how much work they put into the costumes
have you seen abby cox’s video on the costumes?
LoL! I was just going to say that. I think Abby's Muppet Christmas Carol video pretty much put her channel on the map and it is a solid video she geeks out hard about smocking etc. it is charming
Nichole Rudolph's recreation of Gonzo's costume was a true masterpiece of costume-tube as well!
Stars! Somehow I've missed that! I shall go look for it. Thanks
How this movie was not even nominated for a best costume Oscar is beyond me.
I like how you don't simply point out inaccuracies, but each time speculate on what might have motivated and justified those decisions.
I didn't see the Muppet Christmas Carol until I was 52 (about four years ago). And I think it IS one of the best adaptations! I don't have nostalgia for it. I just think it is tremendously well-done. Michael Caine plays the role of Scrooge perfectly!
Same here! I know that many people consider the Alistair Sim version to be "the classic", but that's only because it was formative for us, not because the adaptation was excellent. I don't think anyone else can hold a candle to Michael Caine's interpretation of Scrooge.
this is one of my favorite versions of "A Chritmas Carol" because of Michale Caine's remarkable performance. In many adaptations Scrooge doesn't show regret until the Ghost of Christmas Future--which give the impression that Scrooge changes out of fear of punishment rather than understanding his mistakes. I prefer the intperpretation that Scrooge has had an epiphany and that's why he changes--which Caine does fabulously.
Yes!! I know people think of this as a movie for children because of the Muppets, and it is accessible to children because of them, yet I didn't see this movie until I was nearly 40 and it is my favorite. Michael Caine gave the first portrayal of Scrooge as someone I could relate to, not just some hollow Christmas-hating ogre.
Agreed. In the book, even during the Christmas Past segment, Scrooge was starting to see himself in some of the people he shunned and realizing that he could have made them happy, just as his sister and old employer had for him. As the video said, it wasn't about psychoanalyzing him. It was about reminding him of what he used to be, and of how much it meant to him when he was shown kindness during his times of need.
As an American, British puddings are very confusing to me. My concept of pudding was the Jello style pudding. I read a lot as a kid and couldn't fathom how it could be boiled!
Same. Especially chocolate pudding.
There was a time before microwave ovens when Jello pudding was cooked on a stove so id point to modern conveniences as a part of the disconnect@@mindyschocolate
Puddings are basically anything for desert - bread and butter/custard pudding, rice pudding.
Just had a look, you mean Jello brand puddings, which Brits would probably describe as a mousse due to it's consistency.
@@alcalavicci6483 Oh please don't boil water in the microwave! For Jello or any other reason. A microwave can super heat water past the boiling point and it doesn't form bubbles. Then when the water is agitated, as one does when removing it from the microwave, it can explode. There are tons of videos with footage of people getting horribly scalded. If you absolutely have to, open the microwave, then don't touch it for a couple of minutes. Also, beware making fruit curd in the microwave, something about the sugar and eggs can do it too.
@@Cheepchipsable Puddings are solidified, viscous mixtures that can be eaten with a spoon. They are liquids set into a solid, usually by cooking.
I have a friend and coworker who focuses on historical clothing, primarily late-18th century but branching into other eras. She gushes over the costumes in this movie, speaking breathlessly about whoever designed Gonzo's outfits. And believe me, she is not easily impressed. The fact that a children's movie filled with puppets and talking rats, pigs, and frogs has more authentic and well-researched costuming than many big budget historical epics fascinates me.
You’d probably enjoy Nicole Rudolph’s videos on the costumes in this film, then!
In the animation industry, they call this kinda thing "bumping the lamp," which means something along the lines of "to put in a lot of effort into something very few will notice." The term originates from the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit, specifically the scene where Roger bumps his head on the lamp in the parlor, causing it to swing back and forth. This swinging lamp was a nightmare for the animators, who had to hand-paint every light and shadow on Roger. Why was this included in the film if it was so difficult? Well, aside from being comedic, the director wanted the Toons to interact with the real world as much as possible, to thoroughly convince the audience that they are physically present in the scene.
Muppeteers work on a similar philosophy. It is very difficult to convince an audience that a bunch of felt, thread and fur is alive and present. And yet they not only manage to convince the audience that the puppets are alive, but even the actors and crew who often interact with them. Many people who have worked with Muppeteers have reported talking to the muppets and not the puppeteers, even when they can clearly see the puppeteers. There's even been instances where people have placed microphones on the puppets and not the puppeteers by mistake. It is the attitude of having to work extra hard to convince people that an inanimate object is alive that created the strive for historical accuracy. *That's* why the Muppet Christmas Carol is so accurate. Because they already have to put in more work to suspend your disbelief than a live action human.
it's not a children's movie
I always thought it was impressive that Charles Dickens managed to do a book adapation of muppets christmas carol before the movie came out
He was quite close to the canonical Muppet version too. Good on him for not messing with perfection.
He was truly ahead of his time
Knowing the Doctor probably helped him quite a bit.
Was excited to see this. My aunt did the costuming on this film ❤
Has she seen the Abby Cox video?!? The costuming for this movie is just so insanely good! I hope she knows how much we love her work for it!
@@shannoncrowder1528 I'll have to ask her!
I hope she knows how many people really appreciate her efforts!
Your aunt is a superstar and the amount of raw serotonin I receive every rewatch when I get to see all the delightful costumes filling up my screen cannot be understated
I read recently that this is Michael Caine's favorite of his film performances. In the article Caine said that he crafted the whole of his character as though he was playing with humans - perfectly straight with no mugging. He was proud that the youngest members of his family could comfortably watch it.
I am not surprised after seeing just part of the movie recently. During the song sung by the spirit of Christmas present, Michael Caine is so effortlessly happy. I especially love that last detail. Michael Caine is an awesome actor, but a lot of his movies are not for littles. 😅
He and Tim Curry are great in their Muppet movies. Tim Curry went as over the top as the Muppet characters, so he wasn't overshadowed by their shenanigans. My favorite line is "Upstage, lads. This is my only number."
It works really well as it opens an avenue to see how scrooge sees other people some as rats others as pigs and frog while the noticely human are his family and more wealthy classes
On the opposite side of the spectrum, Tim Curry made himself a muppet for muppet treasure island
I can’t reiterate this enough that as an American who was once a child, yes, pudding really would’ve COMPLETELY thrown me off. Literally nowhere in American is ‘pudding’ used to refer to the UK version, pudding here only means a custard basically, and pudding cups where especially popular amongst kids, they’re basically just soft custardy, chilled dessert that you’d get in your school lunch. That context of pudding is pretty much all an American child would be exposed to, so boiling pudding is the equivalent of like, boiling ice cream. It would’ve been super confusing.
....I mean, it's a liquid so I def imagined dropping people into a cauldron of like,, Jello brand chocolate pudding.....
You might really enjoy “The Man Who Invented Christmas” starring Matthew Stevens and Charles Plummer, and Jonathan Price (among others). It’s about the writing of “A Christmas Carol.” We see the motivation and also some of the emotional background in Dickens’ life. I think that in a way it helps you to realize how our vision of Christmas is shaped by Dickens and why we feel nostalgic for that time.
I don't think he hates Christmas during the Fozziwig party. Instead, he's just surprised at how much the party costs and Fozziwig saying "Don't worry about it". The breakup scene implies that Scrooge is more and more concerned with money. So he HAS changed.
What they SHOULD have done was show Scrooge having fun at the party before meeting a girl.
Yeah, my thought is that he was ambivalent about Christmas, not thinking of it as super special, perhaps due to his upbringing. Finding Belle changes him for a little while, but he reverts back to his natural state after awhile, something Belle doesn't appreciate.
@@tgbotg Yes, that's how I see it too. Belle's character does make sense in that context. When she meets him, he's being introduced by an old friend who describes him as "the finest young financial mind in the city." So, the information she has on first sight is that he's smart, ambitious, and highly recommended by someone who's opinion she respects. He's also handsome, well-mannered, and seems interested in her. Your right that he would change for a while after meeting Belle. It's very common for a person to show their best selves when they're excited to be in a new relationship and are trying to impress someone. And yes, that does inevitably fade and they go back to their natural states over time. It would also be very normal for Belle to focus on his good traits and his potential and to hope that the negatives that she does see would be what would fade over time. As he becomes colder and more distant, she'll stay for a while with the hope that something is only temporarily making him act out of character and he'll go back to normal eventually. Hopefully it will be like he says, and things will be better once he's got the secure job and is less stressed about financial stability. After a while though she'll finally accept that this IS normal for him and the way he was at the beginning was the part when he was acting out of character. That's when they break up. It's far from an unheard-of relationship arc.
@@tgbotg Yes, that's how I see it too. Belle's character does make sense in that context. When she meets him, he's being introduced by an old friend who describes him as "the finest young financial mind in the city." So, the information she has on first sight is that he's smart, ambitious, and highly recommended by someone who's opinion she respects. He's also handsome, well-mannered, and seems interested in her. Your right that he would change for a while after meeting Belle. It's very common for a person to show their best selves when they're excited to be in a new relationship and are trying to impress someone. And yes, that does inevitably fade and they go back to their natural states over time. It would also be very normal for Belle to focus on his good traits and his potential and to hope that the negatives that she does see would be what would fade over time. As he becomes colder and more distant, she'll stay for a while with the hope that something is only temporarily making him act out of character and he'll go back to normal eventually. Hopefully it will be like he says, and things will be better once he's got the secure job and is less stressed about financial stability. After a while though she'll finally accept that this IS normal for him and the way he was at the beginning was the part when he was acting out of character. That's when they break up. It's far from an unheard-of relationship arc.
Regarding the whole "pudding" idea: historically, a pudding is a method of cooking, where you use a wrapping of some sort to keep your ingredients together while you boil it. You could have all different types of puddings, but the invention of the pudding cloth (which is re-usable, as opposed to previous versions which were basically haggis-adjacent sausages) made puddings much less expensive to make. As such, it became popular as a lower-class way of cooking a relatively large meal for a family.
Because it's basically just "stuff somthing in a cloth and boil it", you can have egg or milk-based puddings (which tended to be more desserts), or meat or bread-based puddings (which tended to be more of the main course, although the bread puddings were arguably more cake-like).
Americans leaned towards the custard-style desert puddings (custard was developed separately, but merged with puddings as a name and concept), as Americans usually didn't need to make main-course style puddings, as they had other things they wanted to eat. However, the dessert-style puddings were still moderately popular. In the 1840's a food scientist was able to develop custard powder (which was cornstarch-based), which was WAY easier to use as a thickening agent, and so Americans went even more towards puddings as desserts.
So, yeah - Americans consider puddings to be custard-deserts because we stopped using the pudding style of cooking for main courses, but still used it for desserts to make custards (and thus the names converged). Whereas in England it was originally a main course, but became more of a dessert, and then a synonymn for the dessert course, but still included cake-style puddings. (And historically a few savory puddings, such as black pudding, still exist.)
EDIT: Sources - the Wikipedia article on "pudding", a "history of pudding" timeline on a food history website that came up in my Google search, and (I think) a "Tasting History with Max Miller" RUclips episode on puddings that I watched a few weeks ago.
Thanks a bundle for another little, historical lesson, knowledge that I pleased to have. Not only for my own pleasure but something that this particular food and word buff looks forward to showing off with.
Sould I just mention that the local Scandinavian black pudding ('blood sausage' ) has been a VERY traditional, local dish, especially at Christmas, ever since our Viking days - and probably earlier.
Merry Christmas
“Haggis-adjacent” is my new profile orientation.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yes, literally no American kid who isn't a GBBO addict (which wasn't a thing when this was made) or doesn't have a historic-baking minded or anglophile parent is going to think "pudding" is anything other than a cold, well, pudding...goopy sweet stuff made from powder pudding mix and chilled in the fridge, or that came out of a plastic pudding cup from a grocery store. Wouldn't call it a custard or know what that meant, either. "Boiled pudding" or calling all dessert "pudding" are completely alien.
@@Eet_Miacan’t speak for the whole country, but in Louisiana we baked bread puddings, they were never boiled. It’s not a custard but contains all the custardy ingredients.
This is lovely. I adore your videos.
I'm a 34 year old american and i can safely say that i never heard of pudding, that was not what the english would call a custard, until watching Bake Off. Even now... if you say you've made pudding, everyone would expect custard-- unless they knew you were British, then they would not be sure what you bringing-- something with meat or a dessert or a custard-- no one would know for sure.
The best thing about this adaptation is that Michael Caine treats the Muppets as fellow actors instead of just fuzzy fictional puppets on an elevated platform. He really brought his A-Game to this adaptation.
"OK Michael, it's a Muppet movie, you're the only human actor in the film, feel free to play with it, have some fun"
"Nope, I'm going to play it absolutely arrow-straight!"
Same with A Muppet Treasure Island. Tim Curry acts like he’s one of them and it works brilliantly.
Michael Caine is a professional. Much as a professional plumber doesn't discriminate based on the circumstances of his client, neither does he worry about the nature of his co-workers.
@@bobkatfan2013 Tim Curry decided to play Silver as the most charismatic bombastic pirate he could, I think the Henson Company had to up their game to jeep up with him honestly
I read an interview once where Michael Caine said (paraphrased), “The only way this movie will work is if I play this 100% seriously, as if I’m working alongside human actors.”
The Ghost of Christmas Past puppet was originally filmed in a big tank of baby oil to get that slow moving etheral effect. The team found that the baby oil became difficult to work with and clean from the tank and puppet so filmed the remaining scenes with the puppet submerged in water :)
I was sceptical that I'd enjoy such a long video, but I've found it incredibly informative. Also, I've just realised for the first time that the additional Marley is given the name Robert, which surely must be a reference to Bob Marley.
Yes, Robert Marley = Bob Marley!
I didn't think I would want to watch an hour long video about a Muppet movie, but this was a great historical review and I did stay until the end!
Random thoughts about the whole thing:
"Marley was dead, to begin with." reading this as an adult made me realise this was a horror story. It's such a perfect opening line to lead in to the ensuing horrors.
"If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." is one of the coldest lines and brutal echoes in all of fiction.
I love the Danish subs making a gravy/grave pun itself which I still remember to this day: "I er snarere pølser end spøgelser!" You're more like sausages than ghosts!
I love the way Sam says "BIZNISS!"
I think the reason for Fozziwig's factory being run with his mother is that the Muppets Christmas Special takes place at Fozzie's beloved old mother's house.
I think Fozzie doesn't wear shoes because he's a bear.
The Jim Carrey version showed the Ghost of Christmas Past murder.
God, Kermit's "Good as gold" speech about Tiny Tim gets me every time, and "the first parting" especially.
Mickey Mouse's Bob Crachit actually comes off the best of all adaptations. He's made Scrooge's new partner.
PINING for leaves! Amazing.
Funny you should mention the horror story aspect. Over the past few weeks I've been listening to a lot of period horror stories on a different channel (Horrorbabble), and they recently put up a telling of this story, and yes it's very much written in the same style - albeit Dickens preceded many of those stories by decades and was likely the inspiration for more than a few of those writers.
And I'm with you on the "decrease the surplus population" line. What makes it even more effective is having the otherwise jovial and good hearted spirit of Christmas present repeat Scrooge's words back to him, and in relation to someone he now cares about, so that he gets to hear first-hand how incredibly evil and spiteful those words are. It's an incredible piece of writing.
There’s a line in the Christmas song “Most Wonderful Time of the Year” *There’ll scary ghost stories and tales of the glories of Christmases long, long ago* which suggests ghost stories at Christmas time was a tradition
This is one of my all-time favorite Christmas movies, and it was released while I was in college. However, I have adored the Muppets since I was a little kid. So, in my world, they make stories better. I really love the Muppets treasure Island too. Thank you for covering this for Christmas. My families been having a rough time lately and this cheered me up.
Same, love this movie and Muppets Treasure Island, two of my favorite movies to this day
Cool, I've got to check out the Treasure Island one, that's probably the only muppet film I've never seen. I was also no longer a kid when this muppet movie came out, but I loved the movie even then, bc of how much I loved them in my childhood.
it's actually pretty awesome how a silly little you tube video can offer mental relief when shit gets hard
The muppet team absolutely did their best work when adapting classic literature in a Muppety way. I hope they do more like those some day.
There’s a real sense of dedication to this film. It could very easily have just been some cash grab Muppet movie but it’s clear that the filmmakers really did put their all into this. It’s a surprisingly accurate adaptation of A Christmas Carol for one thing and includes a lot of book dialogue, so it at least shows that someone read the book, unlike some adaptations (cough, 2019 BBC miniseries, cough). It’s also just a plain fantastic film.
PS, I love that they called the second Marley “Robert”. Y’know, as in Bob. Bob Marley.
I'm here for the headwear. Your sartorial sense is on par with Miss Piggy's. And yes, that is obviously a compliment.
The puppet who later became known as One-Eyed Jack played both the prisoner and fruit seller, but was also made for this film. Thus it was a decision to have a new puppet dressed as a stripped prisoner for this film. I believe it really is just a cartoonism, and possibly the director wanting to quickly depict the Christmas spirit even within the jail cells. One-Eyed Jack would only appear in Muppet Treasure island, and Most Wanted.
Even the vegetables don't like him!
Yes, American Children would have been VERY confused by the word pudding. When I heard it as a kid in British media, I always pictured what Americans mean by pudding. I wondered why they liked pudding so much.
Tbh banana pudding is delicious but I don't think they have that in the UK.
We have banana Angel Delight - I think. Best not to ask what's in it (no natural ingredients probably). But, it's like a US version of pudding
I got my parents to watch the muppets Christmas carol with me last night as they had never seen it before and the uncultured swines fell asleep
😹😹😹
That's insane! It's not even 90 minutes long!!
Statler and Waldorf would be proud.
Sad. Having to disown your parents right before Christmas must be tough, but necessary in your case
@@hive_indicator318 an unfortunate but necessary action
07:20 There's an interesting radio interview with Paul Williams, songwriter for The Muppet Christmas Carol, where he recounts his struggle with his own demons around the time of writing, and that coming up with lyrics pertaining to the themes of self-imposed loneliness, redemption, love and, of course, sweet seasonal sentiment proved especially therapeutic. The series was called 'The Sound of Cinema' on BBC Radio 3, it should still be available to listen to.
Wonderful video! I really enjoyed your informative and witty take on my childhood introduction to A Christmas Carol!
As a history enthusiast and someone who believes a muppet christmas carol to be one of the best Christmas movies of all time, i see this as an absolute win
I love how much detail the costumers put into the clothes the muppets wear. How wild is it that they put characters like Rizzo the rat and Gonzo into period appropriate outfits?
I was watching a costumer review the clothes and she pointed out that, based on the way the clothes bunch and move on the puppets, she's pretty sure they're even wearing the right UNDERWEAR!
One of the things you kept mentioning was how this movie is aimed at very young children. You even said five-year-old several times. What you must keep in mind is that the Muppets had been around since the mid 60s, and popularized on Sesame Street starting in 1969, followed by The Muppet Show in the 70s. The Muppet Christmas Carol wasn’t released until 1992. Most of the fans of the Muppets grew up with them, and at this point were Adults. So, even though a lot of the specific words were modernized and Americanized, as a whole it was as much for adults as for children.
I've always lived how The Muppets has always been accessible to kids and adults!
There's a fun little detail from the book this video doesn't mention. (That's not a knock on this video; it's quite long enough as it is.) After he sees Marley's face in the knocker, Scrooge "did pause, with a moment’s irresolution, before he shut the door; and he did look cautiously behind it first, as if he half expected to be terrified with the sight of Marley’s pigtail sticking out into the hall." Michael Caine's Scrooge does this and Gonzo tells Rizzo they need to run inside before he shuts the door, but Rizzo is looking for his jellybeans and Gonzo gets the door slammed in the face. LOL.
Nicole Rudolph did herself a version of Gonzo's costume on her channel! Apparently the costumes in this are so ridiculously on point.
We had the same thought.
@@kohakuaiko Nice!!
what's crazy is that when I was watching Nicole and other Dress Historian RUclipsrs talk about the surprisingly accurate costumes in this, I never stopped to think about how the film came out in 1992 - meaning the costume designers couldn't just pop online and pull up thousands of digitized primary source documents and images to use as inspiration or to verify a style choice; they had to use physical resources they/their costuming company either owned or found in libraries. Don't get me wrong, I know people understood historic dress before the Internet Age. But I think it would have been so much harder for anyone who wasn't a literal expert in specific eras of fashion to create an entire film's-worth of suitable costumes in an era where you're stuck looking at copies of The Delineator on microfiche for inspiration 😅
I love Nicole’s series on the Gonzo Christmas Carol costume. Her videos are incredibly well researched.
@@astridafklinteberg298 agreed 💯%. I swear I want to start making shoes now 😅
@@moxiebombshell'I built historical costumes back in the 80's. Hours of research and large stacks of library books were involved,
I think Michael Caine, plays the best Scrooge ever I think the characters that personalities come through as someone who watched the Muppets growing up even before they were quite as child friendly example Muppets take Manhattan. It was for a little older kids. There was a lot of innuendo I always loved it. It was so sweet and everyone did such a great job.
@@shellnet411 Lol, if I remember correctly, the original name of the Muppets was “Sex and Violence”
As an American I had never heard of puddings until I dated a British woman in my 30's. We're very good here at "pudding erasure". Absolutely love your reactions & contents & have a merry Christmas 2023!🎅
I'm not sure why North Americans (I'm Canadian) don't do steamed puddings anymore. Maybe it's because they're a lot of work. Maybe it's because they're made with suet and it's hard to find. I have English grandparents and English in-laws so I have traditional recipes for Christmas pudding and "spotted dick" (do NOT look that up without the modifying words "pudding" and "recipe"). You know a recipe is old when it tells you to grate the nutmegs.
I've never seen one in person, save the bread puddings at a certain restaurant, but those are not boiled.
I grew up with bread puddings. We always baked them in a water bath, which is guess is similar to boiling? Otherwise, I always think of puddings as Jello puddings, which are the cheapest, saddest dessert imaginable and it would be too sad if all the Cratchits could afford was a jello pudding.
@@LegendStormcrow
I just looked up the recipe for British Christmas pudding. I don't even know where you get dried currents in Missouri and suet??? The crap we put in the bird feeder? That can't be right! Pecan pie it is!@@LegendStormcrow
For those unfamiliar with puddings & looking for recipes; do take a butcher's at Mrs Crocombe's over on the English Heritage channel:
ruclips.net/video/3XOKmaElzqw/видео.html
This Muppet Christmas Carol has one the most hauntingly beautiful songs in it. Between Belle and Scrooge when they are breaking up they sing the song "When Love is Gone" It showed that they really did love each other but time, circumstance and a change in desires, proved to each of them that the relationship would not work. Reprised at the end of the movie and reworded to "The Love We Found" " When Love is Gone" was cut from the original film release, because it was thought thought it slowed down the action too much. Then it was restored to the VHS release, Then cut again from the DVD release (on the DVD, it was added to the bonus scenes in the menu).
This must go down as one of the worst film decisions ever.
We have a VHS of A Christmas Carol. It still has the love is gone in it. When I watch the movie on Disney+ realized they had cut it, I just about lost it.
It's such an important song to the scene and movie overall
@Graycata It was supposed to be complimentary to the song at the end 'The love we found' so I can't see why they removed it.
I believe “Fuzziwig and Mom” is a call back to the TV special “A Muppet Family Christmas” which took place at Fozzie’s Mom’s house. That special also ended with a rare Jim Henson appearance and I think is one of if not the last time all the muppet tv shows were in one spot. “A Muppet Christmas Carol” is the first big Muppet project after Jim Henson died and that his son, Brian Henson, directed. All that to say, I’m not surprised they used Fozzie’s Mom in this adaptation (unless she’s in the original book?).
Dickens used to go around the world reading his books out on stage, it was noted that one couple who owned a factory was so inspired by the tale that they would give their workers a half day off, Scrooge wasn't that bad
What you said about Scrooge having more of a character arc in the original text really stuck with me, and it made me realise why I always found Bill Murray's "Scrooged" to be more satisfying for that reason - he starts out as a hopeful child to a stern father, becomes a playful young man, but loses his joy somewhere. I suppose, since their protagonist isn't as aged as Dickens' Scrooge, that's how they justified him being able to rekindle his youthful romance with his love interest
This video plus your comment gives me encouragement to watch Scrooged.
@@kevinsullivan8737 It's a fun movie, highly recommend, without spoiling details it's set in (the then-modern day) 1988 and is, as a result, one of the 80s-est movies I've ever seen
I have a very hard time at Christmas and this truly lifted my spirits! Just watching The Muppets Christmas Carol wouldn’t have done it. I needed the critique to really do it 😃. Thank you and Merry Christmas 🎄
This is proper Xmas entertainment, watching a holiday themed film with an enthusiastic friend, who knows the source material.
My kind of fun.❤💚🎄
Holiday themed? I've never been on holiday at Christmas time. The closest I've ever come was one New year when my family rented the youth hostel in the Devils Punchbowl, which was nice.
Ah wait, when you said holiday, did you mean something other than "vacation", presumably in order to be non denominational by avoiding reference to a Christian borrowing of a pagan midwinter celebration?
I still find myself humming the songs from this movie around this time, even though it's been years since I have sat down and watched the movie in its entirety.
@@daveash9572 actually the last one, I’m a devoted pagan, but acknowledge that parts of old keltic, roman and various other traditions are mixed into what is considered traditional.
For more info:Jazz Emu 2021 music about the season 😂
Jim Henson's crew produced The Muppet Show in London, so a lot of British traditions were probably evident to them by the time the 90s arrived.
Yeah, exactly. Plus that's where their portions of the Star Wars films were shot. I suspect they were very plugged into London culture well before this movie.
I kinda like the "Scrooge & Marley" (singular) sign. Aside from better matching the book, I feel like it helps save the "big reveal" for later (though it is hinted at earlier). Also, assuming one brother died first, perhaps the other changed the sign, and then Scrooge was too cheap to replace it after the other's demise. That's my headcanon, anyway :) Finally, having a firm with 2+ repeated surnames is such a tired trope in fiction, I'm glad they reigned in their old jokes a bit ;)
I’ve always loved this movie for the snippets of actual Dickens peppered throughout. For lines like “As solitary as an oyster” is why we still hold his writing in such high regard. No one could describe a character that perfectly.
And yet oysters aren't solitary. They tend to clump together in oyster reefs. Yet it still works somehow? 😆
@@Brasswatchman I always took it to be talking about how it's alone in its shell
@@GavinBisesi Ah. Kind of like a Dalek. That would make sense.
9:30 it makes sense within the film universe as well though. Scrooge probably convinced them that repeating the name on the door sign would be a waste of money, and removing the name altogether after their passing would be even more money spent unnecessarily.
I love seeing London through your eyes. This was a great idea (and your headgear is cute as hell.) 😊
I was so surprised watching some live-action Christmas carol mini-series and realizing I liked muppet version a lot more because of how accurate it was! And realised one part of why it works, it's because others are muppets, Scrooge is a way more imposing figure to them, which is great. :D
The costume department of this film went HARD with the historically accuracy of the wardrobe for this film. Way more than they needed to.
16:37 I feel that maybe they changed it because Gonzo isn't actually "relating" the story. He's merely presenting it, like a chorus in a play.
I really appreciate that J. Draper called her patrons “Second fathers to Tiny Tim.” That one got me.
I had never seen the Muppet version, but I'm an old lady and have been a Dickens fangirl all my life. I love the stories, but also did some deep dives into how he published them serially and then bound as one book. I remember being a small child and watching A Christmas Carol with Alistair Sim as Scrooge (1951) in the 1960s on our black and white television. That's still my favorite version. Divinely creepy. I found it here on YT and have it saved to watch tomorrow, Christmas Eve. Thank you so much for making this, I really enjoyed your version.
The bit where Scrooge tries to snuff out the Ghost of Christmas Past is actually shown in the 2009 Christmas Carrol staring a motion-captured Jim Carrey. It’s made even more over the top as the spirit’s metal cap flies up like a rocket, launching Scrooge over the London skyline.
It also happens in the George C. Scott version of A Christmas Carol, although it's deliberate, not accidental.
The clothing historian Nicole Rudolph has a short series of videos where she recreates Gonzo's costume for herself. I highly recommend it, if you want a dose of clothing history.
Sounds fun- going to check that out, thanks!
I was going to share that if no one else had. He does a deep dive into each garment and totally geeks out on how many details were spot on.
Her channel in general is delightful. The Gonzo/Dickens outfit series is fantastic because it is SO detailed. So many individual pieces, all made by hand, as period-accurate and Gonzo-accurate as humanly possible. All the while placing it in context of the time setting.
I also love her historically accurate Aziraphale-as-belle-epoque-lady videos.
I’d love it if you made reviewing various Christmas Carol adaptations a series! I think going from the goofy Muppets version to the truly terrifying George C. Scott version would be so goooooood
Oooo yes! I always liked that old 1970s musical ‘Scrooge’ with Albert Finney.
I agree, and would personally love to see Mr Magoo's christmas carol covered. It's a lot less accurate, and a lot more jokey, but it's probably tied with Muppets' as my favorite adaptations
I would watch each of them. My favorite film for the season by far. I know most of the lines from the book by heart. The GCS version is my favorite because Tiny Tim actually looks like a kid, because I grew up with it, and because it did show how he fell away from society and then was admitted back into it, which is a theme that obsesses me, and which sadly does seem to be missing from this version, which otherwise I quite like.
@@axolirvin971 I think the Magoo version is the scariest of the lot. Jim Baccus had a powerful voice and really let fly with his interpretation . Before that was the Sim version, which I watched up until the Muppet version was released.
If anyone wants to teach their kids what "pudding" is but don't want to go through a week of boiling and steaming things in a cubic meter of cognac, may I recommend sticky toffee pudding! Made with dates, covered in warm toffee sauce and topped with vanilla ice cream or custard it's a very nice treat kids really love and it's very wintery and a great decadent Christmas dessert! I've been making it for a few years now and its always a hit.
It was an absolute pleasure spending an hour with you talking about all of this! As an American, I would like to apologize for the "Pudding Erasure". Yes the vast majority of people here (especially children) would not have understood references to pudding, in our vernacular, it refers to a very specific type of dessert and would have made no sense in the context.
Pudding cups essily beat real pudding fr fr. USA USA USA USA!!!
As a kid singing We Wish You a Merry Christmas the line about figgy pudding raised some questions, promptly (& correctly) answered by my dad. It never occurred to me until years later that this was a gap in *American* knowledge. I just figured it was something that kids didn't know but adults did. 🤷🏻♀️
I don't believe I've ever seen a British pudding in person, and would have to look up how to make figgy pudding. In my estament, they likely went extinct in the mid 1800's this side of the Ocean.
I teach that song to my students every year and it wasn't until fairly recently that I heard one of the kids singing by himself and he was singing "Now bring us some friggin' puddin'!" I had to go back and reteach and now I always wonder how many years worth of kids learned to sing it like that!
@@urbanpoodle
Agreed. I'm an adult, have spent several months in a country where pudding does not mean what it does in America, and my understanding of everyone-else-pudding is still only "I think it's sort of like a cake, except when it isn't." I was very confused when I was younger and made a pudding recipe from an older cookbook and the result in no way resembled pudding.
Thanks for a fascinating assessment. I've always loved this film, and am pleased that it is even more faithful, both to the book and the costume, than I had thought. I agree that the young Ebenezer not enjoying Fezziwig's celebrations was a bit jarring, as I felt that the message was a reminder that he already had a capacity for joy within him. But overall, it works, and I think is one of Michael Caine's finest performances. My favourite line? "LIGHT THE LAMP, NOT THE RAT!!!!" 😆
Yeah, I guess it doesn't really change the meaning of the story much to make Scrooge always on the side of miserliness, but I do like the version of young Scrooge in the book who most fervently puts away the work things and is down to party.
This movie is my favourite and I look forward to watching it every Christmas.
One thing i love about michael caines decision to play as if the muppets were people is that it opens an avenue for deeply anaylising how scrooge see people around him. He sees those that work for him as rats and frogs and the women as sows mainwhile those he does see as human are his family and those who are clearly upper class
Wow 🤯 You just changed my entire perception of the movie.
An interesting take, but I wonder if it doesn't interpret into Scrooge's character an elitism that isn't really expressed from him in the book. He is alone, miserly, and miserable, but as far as I know he has never been depicted as classist or elitist or the like.
@adamsmall5598 potentialy. Im not sure how well the human as upper class holds as i havent done a frame by frame analysis of the crowd to see but there is a definetly theme with how scrooges family all being human in his eyes as well as his fiance
@@Ericshadowblade Fair.
I don’t know who said this first, but the best thing about Christmas Carol and Muppet Treasure island is that Michael Caine treated the muppets as if they were actors and Tim Curry treated himself like a Muppet.
This is among my favorite versions. Partly because it is more accurate to the text than a puppet version would normally be expected to be
It is more faithful than non-puppet versions would normally be expected to be!
Which is why I use it in my classroom.
My favorite line in the book has always been. “These are the shadows that have been; that they are what they are do not blame me.” It’s fabulous!
Thank you for pre-warning us that you don't think this movie is perfect and magical, I really needed to brace myself! There's something about the layer of abstraction provided by puppetry or cartoons that allows for a kind of emotional storytelling that works really well with this sort of story, which I think is why people get so attached to this adaptation and find others difficult to get into.