The only problem I have with this test is that we cant see the rear wheels of any of the cars. I'm not suggesting any foul play (I own a Legacy 2.5GT and, ironically a Rav4), but it would have been easy to position the camera to see the rear wheels and back of the car and eliminate any doubts about these tests Given the testers were (if I'm not mistaken) from a Subaru dealer or at the very least paid by them. Neat test, I'd love to see it confirmed and how Toyota and Honda would respond.
Let's not forget, this IS a Subaru commercial. They should have had CR, Edmunds or some other reputable and unbiased firm do this testing. I would love to take a shot a that ramp with my Quattro!
@t0rington the bump on the rear wheels outside of the garage are there to simulate the angle of the rest of the ramp, though whieght pull from gravity is not simulated when rear wheels are at that bump.
@3tadt30ldat physics says that automatically when slippage occurs...the wheel slipping will get most of the power because its the path of least resistance (air has little resistance). Therefore something must brake that tire so that the power being sent to that tire is reduced or stopped and the tire stops spinning.
At 2:03 you can see very goofy ramps they used (you can see the one on the passenger side tires) just outside to provide an additional barrier the vehicles had to get over with their rear wheels. Almost like a wheel chock. They appear to look sort of like the bottom of a bowl, like a flattened U rather than a ramp. Not saying the Subaru didn't make it and the Honda didn't but it did seem to me the results appear to be exagerated a bit. This coming from someone who hates Hondas (except motorcycles), but I'm for legit, fair debate, not fanboy prop-ups... :(
I would like to see the SH-AWD. They claimed that it "anticipates" tire slip instead of "waiting for it". So it's like the VDC function at the end but without the delay.
At 2:05 you can see a bump... Thats whats adding the resistance I think. I think the bump is a good way to demonstrate a worst cast scenario. For say if you are driving up a icy gravel road with ripples in it from people driving to fast on the gravel road. I ran into a familiar situation a few weeks ago, and Im glad to say my 00 Impreza did excellent.
@finnsk3 (continued from last) This is because of the weight difference, weight has a major effect on friction, which is what provides traction. In a symmetrical driveline, you have (nearly) equal weight distribution between the right and left side of the car. Torque steer, caused by unequal length of axles, is one axle twisting more than another. Every axle will twist slightly, but if one side twists more than the other, then power will be delivered to the other side faster.
The forester is indeed AWD all the time, but on a normal driving surface, about 80 percent of the power is coming from the front tires and about 20% from the rear tires. The thing is, it is always sensing the roads surface and "sending" power to the appropriate tires. In a subaru, power is always directed to the tire with the most grip.
Actually, the 09 Forester has standard VDC as does the 09 Impreza. I also expect that all Subaru models will have standard VDC going forward, including base models.
Take a suite case containing 50 pounds. Start to lean the bag over & use your hand to keep it from falling. Now slowly begin to lay it on its side using your hand as support. Notice that the weight begins to shift from the bottom of the bag to the front. The total weight of the bag never changes yet as the bag becomes more horizontal it becomes heavier to you. If the car is at an angle the weigh distribution on each tire changes.
it would be interesting to see the diagonal test on the base Forester and Legacy. With 1 wheel slipping in front and 1 wheel slipping at the rear, the car shouldn't be able to move. I wonder if the Subaru VDC would help in this case.
the four wheels don't constantly have power, just the front two. the "active" AWD just means that it's always ready to kick in and will transfer power if a front wheel slips
@t0rington it think i wouldn't really matter, since 4 wheel drive cars cant switch to front wheel only rear and 4 wheels all together, so if front wheels we rolling that's means car was on 4 wheel drive mode, and you have a point it could be that rear was on the rollers like front wheels (if that's the setup) and again if it would be the case then the car wouldn't sit under angle it would slide all way back.
At 2:35, the explanation was incorrect, the slippage of the rear wheels did not cause power to be sent to the front wheels. The front wheels are the default drive wheels and only when the front wheels lose traction will the electronically-controlled center differential (transfer case) send power to the rear wheels. This does not apply to Subaru's with manual transmissions, where the AWD is all-time 50:50 split.
I'm serious. Subarus are the best car to own for North America... it's one of the best driving snowmobile in the world, reliable, and faaast.. I fall in love with it i bought myself a 2.5RS.. hopefully can work harder to get an 02 WRX.
ifr4zze but then there is no reason to say it because every damn car can move if 3 wheels are on ice,its not that difficult, every car in the world can move if 3 wheels are on ice,as long as one of the wheels originaly can move, a rwd car that have the rear wheels on ice and one front on asfalt cant move because the fron dont move orignally, same goes for a fwd, but every 4wd car on the market can move if 3 wheels are on ice, its not an achievement and isnt impressive at all, but a 4wd car that can climb a hill with only 1 wheel on traction is very impressive. subaru does it again.
***** then read it again, a rwd car with the rear on ice and the front on tarmac cant move, because the wheels that spins have no traction, this is not rocket science its basic logic, a 4wd car with 3 wheels on ice will be able to move without a problem on flat surface, a volkswagen passat with 3 wheels on ice and on an angle wont be able to climb because the wheel that have traction dont have enough power to move a 2 ton car up a hill. its in the video, did you even watch it.
The reason the subaru didn't have any issues with the rears on "ice" is because the front is a direct drive, not because it "sensed it" the rear drive is through a center diff. A very good drive system though. now if it had a LSD front/rear/center diff.. that'd be fun!
@3tadt30ldat I own a '99 Outback, with 292,000 miles & climbing. I think what they're trying to convey is the newer Subarus have electronic traction control. That's when it would "sense" slippage and adjust. Another difference is automatics run 90%front/10%rear UNTIL slippage, then it splits power accordingly. My '99 is a 5 speed and gets 50/50 all the time. Automatics from my era go to 50/50 during slipping using a mechanical "sensor". I assume newer 5 speeds use traction control as well.
@hellanger666 You are only partly right. The AWD system in the Audi TT and A3 is the same as in the VW cars(Haldex based). Bigger Audis offer different kind of AWD.
I bought a 1999 Forester (S turbo) last winter. It doesn't have all of that electronic shit but that thing climbs the snowy mountain even without snow tires! I just can't beleive how well it works! And the 177hp is a real pleasure!
@ralathr DOESNT MATTER IF ITS NOT LIKE REAL CONDITIONS, if it makes it harder for a hummer, it still makes it harder for a subaru! so since the subie can make it up, and the hummer cant as you say, its equally tested. the subie is awesome, dont hate.
if this has already been posted, ignore, but one fact reported is false. The asymetrical drivetrain has an effect on torque steer (the car rocking sidewas when both wheels loose traction). But only a locking differential (manual or electronic) will move the car if only one of the 4 wheels has traction.
@finnsk3 I'm not so sure, I have a 1993 Legacy and when one wheel looses traction it transfers power around just fine, and it's much much less advanced than your Forester, open dif at the back and no ABS lol. In a recent snow storm I drove it around with just 14" "all weather tires" and it was just fine. Also the difference is that Legacy has all that crazy VDC and stuff on it, that costs quite a lot, wouldn't be surprised if that Legacy had a 32k price tag at the time.
@7150285 Havent had a automatic subaru but I think they disable all four in park. All four are constantly linked in either trans type in a subaru. The competitors will most likely behave like a front drive in park since their poor awd systems only become awd when they lose traction at front. Thats the beauty of Subarus system you get awd constantly. Just had a friend come back to Subaru from an Audi. He also came to the conclusion that the flat engine's lower mass cg is more than just hype.
This video show us subarus center differential distribution. It works very well, betwenn front and rear wheels. And with traction on just one wheel, the traction controll system works great, if only a bit slow i think! THIS IS WHAT THEY DONT SHOW US IN THIS VIDEO!!!: Traction on the front left and rear right (diagonal test) This is where Subaru AWD system falls trough. It will be standing spinning like the rest of the competitors. But of course they dont show us that!
Technically this test did in fact test the Audi Quatro system, though it was under a different name. the Volkswagen Passat used Audi's Quatro system (Audi being owned by VW) how ever i did not see the Mitsubishi tested, i think it safe to say Subaru will shine over Mitsubishi too. also something to consider is the power to Weight of the Vehicle, takes more power to move more weight on any surface, and im wondering if this test compensated for that. still a great video.
@7150285 Mechanical 4WD, yes. AWD, no. The transmission is mechanically locked, causing the front differential to be disabled. The front axles technically aren't locked, the center of the differential is simply locked, making it mechanically impossible for the front wheels to turn in the same direction. If you put the vehicle in the air, you can spin the front tires, and they will spin the other front tire in the opposite direction.
I just traded a 2005 WRX in part on a 2013 Forester. The WRX is more fun, by far, than anything else in the price range subaru makes. It was an excellent car and I just about cried when I gave it up for my "grocery getter," but I am a teacher, and I need a "sensible" car that is better in snow. The crazy torque the WRX gets will put you in a bind in snow pretty quick if you are hard on the gas. Your pick: sensible, or fun. Sensible is always better in snow :) Good luck!
@DtorBillAgain You´re partially wrong dude. Most of Audi Quattro models(but A3 and TT) have a Torsen locking differential which is very comparable to Subaru´s symmetrical AWD system (it can be able to lock both front and rear differentials). VW has 4motion which is completely different to Torsen based Quattro. 4motion VWs have a Haldex system which is a FWD system most of the time which engages rear wheels when front wheels lose traction. Only front differential will lock.
the Highlander has a fixed 50:50 system, so it can't route power to the rear wheels. I would have liked to see the one wheel traction test on a Subie AWD system without the rear viscous LSD....as the availability of Subie AWD with a rear LSD as decreased,
Good test showing you the difference between the AWD systems, but a little impractical. Most people buy these cross-overs so they can carry family members or friends along for a ride (as well as their gear), in which case even the Subaru would be underpowered and fail to drive up the ramp. The standard 170 HP that the boxer engine provides is not enough, and while Subaru offers an upgraded engine, it becomes too expensive for what its worth.
IIRC, any Subaru after after 2000 has a limited slip rear diff. My 98 Impreza slips a bit on ice but will go up. My 00 Impreza has no issues because of the rear diff.
@finnsk3 Symmetrical AWD DOES mean something, but you're right, the diffs will make a bigger difference. The difference that a symmetrical driveline makes is in weight distribution (which effects traction), and reduces or eliminates torque steer, caused by unequal length in the drive axles. To think about the weight distribution, think of a rwd pickup, in the ice, the brakes on the rear of an empty pickup will lock more easily than the front, even though the tires are the same. (TBC)
This video validates the complaints I hear from friends with AWD Rav4s and other vehicles that claim to be AWD. The majority of these so called “AWD” vehicles can only send a very small percent of torque to the other wheels; usually in a front-wheel drive biased set-up, 10% of torque will be send to the rear; watch other AWD test on RUclips. This is why some automakers don’t want to disclose details of their poor-engineering/great-marketing AWD scheme.
I agree on everything except tires. This is not snow or ice where slip is between tires and the road surface where tires would be a huge variable. The slip in this simulation is within the rollers. all wheels on rollers will have 0 traction regardless of the tire. The wheels off the roller don't slip at all. Am I missing something what difference could tire possibly make here?
I wouldnt say it doesnt work though, I have a friend with a 2009 Legacy who lives in Rochester New York where they get a lot of snow, He claims the car rarely gets stuck in the snow, he claims to never having to shovel snow out of the way either.
@3tadt30ldat In the automatic transmissions it is computerized and must sense slippage, I believe with the manual you have constant awd action. (Or at least a more even distribution of power)
@3tadt30ldat It needs to put extra power to the wheel(s) with traction to completely move the vehicle. If this were on a flat surface, it would've had no problem moving without much (if any) extra transfer to the back wheels.
Different Class. This is a test of standard AWD systems found on vehicles within a certain price and size range. SH-AWD behaves much like Subaru's AWD does, but there is a reason Subaru is World Rally Championship name, and Acura isn't.
To continue...Did you ever push a car a car on level ground? Ever push one up a hill? Gravity changes things. Pushing the car up a hill requires more force to be applied in order to place it into motion.
@7150285 With the subaru id say yes; its constantly linked. Most competitors only get awd as a reaction to loss of traction so they would behave like a fwd in park.
Ok, I own a CRV, and it could make it up that 4 inch tall bump that you don't see. look at 0:38 in the vid. The driver must cut power to keep from going over the bump. Also, that part about going through tests to find traction is wrong. I know exactly how the CRV's AWD works: the greater the difference in speeds between the front and rear axles, the more power is transferred to the rear. There is no center differential, but rather a multi-plate clutch.
Why isn't Quattro, X-drive, and whatever the unstoppable Hummer used on it's older models featured here? Most vehicles that are advertised as AWD are not. Trucks are a great example of this. I live in the Rockies, at 9200 feet, on a mountain. I have zero problems getting to my home in my A6. And constantly see trucks with more power, bigger tires, and much more ground clearance struggling to get up the hills.
Why does the Highlander have a driveshaft To the rear differential and CV axles to the tires if there’s no way to get power there ? I also own a Highlander and have experienced the same thing
OK, I have to ask....cuz I've been pondering over this video for a few days now: Why couldn't we see the rear wheels? Is it because there was no nice way to film this? A limitation of being in a garage? I ask, because it would appear that the rear wheels have to overcome a bump before making their way up the ramp.
@7150285 yes and No. if you move both rear wheels forward or backwards it will lock up, but if you spin one wheel, the other will spin the other direction due to the open Diff. ~~~1997 Subaru SVX LSi~~~
I'd really love to see a comparison of some other german cars too. Especially xDrive from BMW and some of the Quattro Audis. "Some" because almost all Audis use different techniques for AWD and i'd like to see which ones best. Probably would like to see Mercedes' 4Matic as well. Great video anyway ! :)
I wish you would have done the Ford Escape. I would have liked to see how Ford's intelligent fail(4 wheel) wheel drive sytem does it. I hear the Escape only sends power either front or rear wheels and not all 4 like they say.
I've watched many of these tests on youtube. And it's great that some AWD systems can do the job. BUT, with all those million dollars worth electronics, I have to ask: How hard it is to fit a set which locks all the diffs together or send the same power to each wheel?
I'm glad that i never bought the Rav4 or the CRV. The only thing that detoured me was the price (since i refuse to purchase a new car). Now i own an Impreza TS. Never stuck once.
Just curious, how would the Audi climb up better? The car traveled about 4 feet to the top. Is it a transformer and therefore would walk up the ramp? If both cars are able to climb the ramp that would be pretty much it. Audi could always produce their own video. That would be cool.
I see why all trucks are equipped with Four Wheel Drive not All wheel Drive...as working vehicles are built for tough... they are my only selections to survive winter driving in Canada..:D
It's a shame with the new 2010+ Legacy model - I don't believe they come with the same VTD drivetrain technology as this 2008 model. I could be wrong, but I've seen quite a few videos of subarus not moving even with 2 wheels on the ground (one on each axle) because all the power use uselessly being sent to the (opposite) spinning wheels.
My Subi forester 2012, is the best on ice and snow. Feels like your driving on tarmac. And for those who say to try Audi, well VW's drive system is the same as Audi's. Same company, same thing.
The Audi Q7 was disappointing when I noticed the front wheels just spinning in the snow and not enough torque to allow the rear axle to do its job. And its so much more than a Subaru.
@spencer769 I get to drive both cars and I love the Subaru (2002 Outback 83k) but for long trips the Audi wins hands down. Better cruising, more power and is now worth 1/2 of what the subie is! Subie steering feels a little better but it just feels like it's working too hard here in the mountains at 70-90mph. Sure if you don't have a good mechanic you might be in trouble but I have numerous pals who have had outback cylinder head problems. Also do 500+ mile trips in 05 Outback - same problem.
I'm not understanding this video. The whole idea behind Honda's RTAWD system is to send power to the back wheels when the fronts start slipping. The video is not explaining why the AWD system is not engaging. Is it because the VSA (traction control) is engaged? If so, you can reach over and shut it off.
Very impressing by Subaru, both the Elagcy and the forester, even though people talk and throw bad words at Subaru I respect it. If you are buying a new car I consider you buy a subie
What if you disable traction control? I have a 2016 AWD Rav4 with en electronic "central locker" (i know its not a real locker so don't bother pointing that out) and with the locker on, the awd system and with traction control off i have driven thru deep mud and sand, heck even with out traction control off it drives a little bit thru. I am not saying its a proper off roader but for mud and sand it been great so far.
The only problem I have with this test is that we cant see the rear wheels of any of the cars. I'm not suggesting any foul play (I own a Legacy 2.5GT and, ironically a Rav4), but it would have been easy to position the camera to see the rear wheels and back of the car and eliminate any doubts about these tests Given the testers were (if I'm not mistaken) from a Subaru dealer or at the very least paid by them. Neat test, I'd love to see it confirmed and how Toyota and Honda would respond.
Let's not forget, this IS a Subaru commercial. They should have had CR, Edmunds or some other reputable and unbiased firm do this testing. I would love to take a shot a that ramp with my Quattro!
Great video - I am a newer Subaru owner, and this makes me feel even better about my purchase decision!!
@t0rington the bump on the rear wheels outside of the garage are there to simulate the angle of the rest of the ramp, though whieght pull from gravity is not simulated when rear wheels are at that bump.
@3tadt30ldat physics says that automatically when slippage occurs...the wheel slipping will get most of the power because its the path of least resistance (air has little resistance). Therefore something must brake that tire so that the power being sent to that tire is reduced or stopped and the tire stops spinning.
A great video. Did not realize all the other makers could not do well.
At 2:03 you can see very goofy ramps they used (you can see the one on the passenger side tires) just outside to provide an additional barrier the vehicles had to get over with their rear wheels. Almost like a wheel chock. They appear to look sort of like the bottom of a bowl, like a flattened U rather than a ramp. Not saying the Subaru didn't make it and the Honda didn't but it did seem to me the results appear to be exagerated a bit. This coming from someone who hates Hondas (except motorcycles), but I'm for legit, fair debate, not fanboy prop-ups... :(
I would like to see the SH-AWD. They claimed that it "anticipates" tire slip instead of "waiting for it". So it's like the VDC function at the end but without the delay.
@s14sr The wheels outside were not spinning. They were on asphalt. They didn't move.
At 2:05 you can see a bump... Thats whats adding the resistance I think.
I think the bump is a good way to demonstrate a worst cast scenario. For say if you are driving up a icy gravel road with ripples in it from people driving to fast on the gravel road.
I ran into a familiar situation a few weeks ago, and Im glad to say my 00 Impreza did excellent.
@finnsk3 (continued from last) This is because of the weight difference, weight has a major effect on friction, which is what provides traction. In a symmetrical driveline, you have (nearly) equal weight distribution between the right and left side of the car.
Torque steer, caused by unequal length of axles, is one axle twisting more than another. Every axle will twist slightly, but if one side twists more than the other, then power will be delivered to the other side faster.
I've love to see you guys do a test like this with an STI with DCCD in lock.
The forester is indeed AWD all the time, but on a normal driving surface, about 80 percent of the power is coming from the front tires and about 20% from the rear tires. The thing is, it is always sensing the roads surface and "sending" power to the appropriate tires. In a subaru, power is always directed to the tire with the most grip.
Actually, the 09 Forester has standard VDC as does the 09 Impreza. I also expect that all Subaru models will have standard VDC going forward, including base models.
Take a suite case containing 50 pounds. Start to lean the bag over & use your hand to keep it from falling. Now slowly begin to lay it on its side using your hand as support. Notice that the weight begins to shift from the bottom of the bag to the front. The total weight of the bag never changes yet as the bag becomes more horizontal it becomes heavier to you. If the car is at an angle the weigh distribution on each tire changes.
it would be interesting to see the diagonal test on the base Forester and Legacy. With 1 wheel slipping in front and 1 wheel slipping at the rear, the car shouldn't be able to move. I wonder if the Subaru VDC would help in this case.
the four wheels don't constantly have power, just the front two. the "active" AWD just means that it's always ready to kick in and will transfer power if a front wheel slips
@t0rington it think i wouldn't really matter, since 4 wheel drive cars cant switch to front wheel only rear and 4 wheels all together, so if front wheels we rolling that's means car was on 4 wheel drive mode, and you have a point it could be that rear was on the rollers like front wheels (if that's the setup) and again if it would be the case then the car wouldn't sit under angle it would slide all way back.
At 2:35, the explanation was incorrect, the slippage of the rear wheels did not cause power to be sent to the front wheels. The front wheels are the default drive wheels and only when the front wheels lose traction will the electronically-controlled center differential (transfer case) send power to the rear wheels. This does not apply to Subaru's with manual transmissions, where the AWD is all-time 50:50 split.
I'm serious. Subarus are the best car to own for North America... it's one of the best driving snowmobile in the world, reliable, and faaast.. I fall in love with it i bought myself a 2.5RS.. hopefully can work harder to get an 02 WRX.
"Passat claims that it can move when only one wheel have traction" They don't claim that it'll climb a hill with one wheel that have traction.
ifr4zze but then there is no reason to say it because every damn car can move if 3 wheels are on ice,its not that difficult, every car in the world can move if 3 wheels are on ice,as long as one of the wheels originaly can move, a rwd car that have the rear wheels on ice and one front on asfalt cant move because the fron dont move orignally, same goes for a fwd, but every 4wd car on the market can move if 3 wheels are on ice, its not an achievement and isnt impressive at all, but a 4wd car that can climb a hill with only 1 wheel on traction is very impressive. subaru does it again.
***** then read it again, a rwd car with the rear on ice and the front on tarmac cant move, because the wheels that spins have no traction, this is not rocket science its basic logic, a 4wd car with 3 wheels on ice will be able to move without a problem on flat surface,
a volkswagen passat with 3 wheels on ice and on an angle wont be able to climb because the wheel that have traction dont have enough power to move a 2 ton car up a hill.
its in the video, did you even watch it.
***** but it went on every wheel except the one that needed it.
The reason the subaru didn't have any issues with the rears on "ice" is because the front is a direct drive, not because it "sensed it" the rear drive is through a center diff. A very good drive system though.
now if it had a LSD front/rear/center diff.. that'd be fun!
@3tadt30ldat I own a '99 Outback, with 292,000 miles & climbing. I think what they're trying to convey is the newer Subarus have electronic traction control. That's when it would "sense" slippage and adjust. Another difference is automatics run 90%front/10%rear UNTIL slippage, then it splits power accordingly. My '99 is a 5 speed and gets 50/50 all the time. Automatics from my era go to 50/50 during slipping using a mechanical "sensor". I assume newer 5 speeds use traction control as well.
@hellanger666 You are only partly right. The AWD system in the Audi TT and A3 is the same as in the VW cars(Haldex based). Bigger Audis offer different kind of AWD.
i want a current one of these, this is four years old. competitors need a rematch
I bought a 1999 Forester (S turbo) last winter. It doesn't have all of that electronic shit but that thing climbs the snowy mountain even without snow tires! I just can't beleive how well it works! And the 177hp is a real pleasure!
@ralathr DOESNT MATTER IF ITS NOT LIKE REAL CONDITIONS, if it makes it harder for a hummer, it still makes it harder for a subaru! so since the subie can make it up, and the hummer cant as you say, its equally tested. the subie is awesome, dont hate.
if this has already been posted, ignore, but one fact reported is false. The asymetrical drivetrain has an effect on torque steer (the car rocking sidewas when both wheels loose traction).
But only a locking differential (manual or electronic) will move the car if only one of the 4 wheels has traction.
@finnsk3 I'm not so sure, I have a 1993 Legacy and when one wheel looses traction it transfers power around just fine, and it's much much less advanced than your Forester, open dif at the back and no ABS lol. In a recent snow storm I drove it around with just 14" "all weather tires" and it was just fine.
Also the difference is that Legacy has all that crazy VDC and stuff on it, that costs quite a lot, wouldn't be surprised if that Legacy had a 32k price tag at the time.
@7150285 Havent had a automatic subaru but I think they disable all four in park. All four are constantly linked in either trans type in a subaru. The competitors will most likely behave like a front drive in park since their poor awd systems only become awd when they lose traction at front. Thats the beauty of Subarus system you get awd constantly. Just had a friend come back to Subaru from an Audi. He also came to the conclusion that the flat engine's lower mass cg is more than just hype.
This video show us subarus center differential distribution. It works very well, betwenn front and rear wheels. And with traction on just one wheel, the traction controll system works great, if only a bit slow i think!
THIS IS WHAT THEY DONT SHOW US IN THIS VIDEO!!!:
Traction on the front left and rear right (diagonal test) This is where Subaru AWD system falls trough. It will be standing spinning like the rest of the competitors. But of course they dont show us that!
Technically this test did in fact test the Audi Quatro system, though it was under a different name. the Volkswagen Passat used Audi's Quatro system (Audi being owned by VW) how ever i did not see the Mitsubishi tested, i think it safe to say Subaru will shine over Mitsubishi too. also something to consider is the power to Weight of the Vehicle, takes more power to move more weight on any surface, and im wondering if this test compensated for that. still a great video.
I would love to see the E class 4matic in this test. And Audi quattro.
@7150285 Mechanical 4WD, yes. AWD, no. The transmission is mechanically locked, causing the front differential to be disabled. The front axles technically aren't locked, the center of the differential is simply locked, making it mechanically impossible for the front wheels to turn in the same direction. If you put the vehicle in the air, you can spin the front tires, and they will spin the other front tire in the opposite direction.
I just traded a 2005 WRX in part on a 2013 Forester. The WRX is more fun, by far, than anything else in the price range subaru makes. It was an excellent car and I just about cried when I gave it up for my "grocery getter," but I am a teacher, and I need a "sensible" car that is better in snow. The crazy torque the WRX gets will put you in a bind in snow pretty quick if you are hard on the gas. Your pick: sensible, or fun. Sensible is always better in snow :) Good luck!
@3tadt30ldat It has a smart AWD system, Where it has power to all four, but the distributes it to the power to the tires that need it the most.
@VadimNesen if you actully whatch every vehicle has that black stopper and every time the rear end has to go over it. even subaru
@DtorBillAgain
You´re partially wrong dude. Most of Audi Quattro models(but A3 and TT) have a Torsen locking differential which is very comparable to Subaru´s symmetrical AWD system (it can be able to lock both front and rear differentials). VW has 4motion which is completely different to Torsen based Quattro. 4motion VWs have a Haldex system which is a FWD system most of the time which engages rear wheels when front wheels lose traction. Only front differential will lock.
the Highlander has a fixed 50:50 system, so it can't route power to the rear wheels. I would have liked to see the one wheel traction test on a Subie AWD system without the rear viscous LSD....as the availability of Subie AWD with a rear LSD as decreased,
I would love to see the Jeep patriot's freedom drive 2 tested in the same way, be interesting to see how it compares.
If you have an automatic you have active awd, and it should perform exactly as the forester shown on the video.
Good demo but do the test against the Honda Pilot with VTM and see. Probably need 2 wheels to have traction to climb I guess.
Good test showing you the difference between the AWD systems, but a little impractical. Most people buy these cross-overs so they can carry family members or friends along for a ride (as well as their gear), in which case even the Subaru would be underpowered and fail to drive up the ramp. The standard 170 HP that the boxer engine provides is not enough, and while Subaru offers an upgraded engine, it becomes too expensive for what its worth.
See the other video. They clearly state that a bump is on the bottom of the ramp to determine how a vehicle analyses and overcomes resistance.
IIRC, any Subaru after after 2000 has a limited slip rear diff. My 98 Impreza slips a bit on ice but will go up. My 00 Impreza has no issues because of the rear diff.
@finnsk3 Symmetrical AWD DOES mean something, but you're right, the diffs will make a bigger difference. The difference that a symmetrical driveline makes is in weight distribution (which effects traction), and reduces or eliminates torque steer, caused by unequal length in the drive axles.
To think about the weight distribution, think of a rwd pickup, in the ice, the brakes on the rear of an empty pickup will lock more easily than the front, even though the tires are the same. (TBC)
This video validates the complaints I hear from friends with AWD Rav4s and other vehicles that claim to be AWD.
The majority of these so called “AWD” vehicles can only send a very small percent of torque to the other wheels; usually in a front-wheel drive biased set-up, 10% of torque will be send to the rear; watch other AWD test on RUclips.
This is why some automakers don’t want to disclose details of their poor-engineering/great-marketing AWD scheme.
@finnsk3 true true, but it dosent eliminate the fact that the suby was better than the other cars tested here.
@3tadt30ldat manual transmission is 50/50. Automatic transmission models don't send it back until the front loses traction.
I agree on everything except tires. This is not snow or ice where slip is between tires and the road surface where tires would be a huge variable. The slip in this simulation is within the rollers. all wheels on rollers will have 0 traction regardless of the tire. The wheels off the roller don't slip at all. Am I missing something what difference could tire possibly make here?
I wouldnt say it doesnt work though, I have a friend with a 2009 Legacy who lives in Rochester New York where they get a lot of snow, He claims the car rarely gets stuck in the snow, he claims to never having to shovel snow out of the way either.
what about quattro?!
@3tadt30ldat In the automatic transmissions it is computerized and must sense slippage, I believe with the manual you have constant awd action. (Or at least a more even distribution of power)
@3tadt30ldat It needs to put extra power to the wheel(s) with traction to completely move the vehicle.
If this were on a flat surface, it would've had no problem moving without much (if any) extra transfer to the back wheels.
Different Class. This is a test of standard AWD systems found on vehicles within a certain price and size range. SH-AWD behaves much like Subaru's AWD does, but there is a reason Subaru is World Rally Championship name, and Acura isn't.
@paintballgundown8 cuz you can haul more stuff, function is huge in a wagon
Nope, the Passat in the video has a transverse engine and thus uses the clutch-based Haldex system, not the Quattro Torsen-based differential.
To continue...Did you ever push a car a car on level ground? Ever push one up a hill? Gravity changes things. Pushing the car up a hill requires more force to be applied in order to place it into motion.
Good sales pitch comparing the NEWER 2008 Subarus against older model competing brands.
@7150285 With the subaru id say yes; its constantly linked. Most competitors only get awd as a reaction to loss of traction so they would behave like a fwd in park.
Ok, I own a CRV, and it could make it up that 4 inch tall bump that you don't see. look at 0:38 in the vid. The driver must cut power to keep from going over the bump. Also, that part about going through tests to find traction is wrong. I know exactly how the CRV's AWD works: the greater the difference in speeds between the front and rear axles, the more power is transferred to the rear. There is no center differential, but rather a multi-plate clutch.
Why isn't Quattro, X-drive, and whatever the unstoppable Hummer used on it's older models featured here? Most vehicles that are advertised as AWD are not. Trucks are a great example of this. I live in the Rockies, at 9200 feet, on a mountain. I have zero problems getting to my home in my A6. And constantly see trucks with more power, bigger tires, and much more ground clearance struggling to get up the hills.
Hey Mark Miller, great video! Do you happen to have the same kind of comparison video with the Outback vs competition?
Thanks and keep it up!
Why does the Highlander have a driveshaft To the rear differential and CV axles to the tires if there’s no way to get power there ? I also own a Highlander and have experienced the same thing
OK, I have to ask....cuz I've been pondering over this video for a few days now: Why couldn't we see the rear wheels?
Is it because there was no nice way to film this? A limitation of being in a garage?
I ask, because it would appear that the rear wheels have to overcome a bump before making their way up the ramp.
This is beautiful Mark Miller Subaru. Thanks for sharing.
@7150285 yes and No. if you move both rear wheels forward or backwards it will lock up, but if you spin one wheel, the other will spin the other direction due to the open Diff.
~~~1997 Subaru SVX LSi~~~
Great real life comparison!
I'd really love to see a comparison of some other german cars too. Especially xDrive from BMW and some of the Quattro Audis. "Some" because almost all Audis use different techniques for AWD and i'd like to see which ones best.
Probably would like to see Mercedes' 4Matic as well. Great video anyway ! :)
What about Acura's super handling all wheel drive ? Why was that one not included in the testing ? I waiting to see that.
I wish you would have done the Ford Escape. I would have liked to see how Ford's intelligent fail(4 wheel) wheel drive sytem does it. I hear the Escape only sends power either front or rear wheels and not all 4 like they say.
I've watched many of these tests on youtube. And it's great that some AWD systems can do the job. BUT, with all those million dollars worth electronics, I have to ask: How hard it is to fit a set which locks all the diffs together or send the same power to each wheel?
I'm glad that i never bought the Rav4 or the CRV. The only thing that detoured me was the price (since i refuse to purchase a new car). Now i own an Impreza TS.
Never stuck once.
Just curious, how would the Audi climb up better? The car traveled about 4 feet to the top. Is it a transformer and therefore would walk up the ramp? If both cars are able to climb the ramp that would be pretty much it. Audi could always produce their own video. That would be cool.
i see where your coming from but if the cars are really awd then they would give power to all 4 wheels even before traction control comes in to play
I see why all trucks are equipped with Four Wheel Drive not All wheel Drive...as working vehicles are built for tough... they are my only selections to survive winter driving in Canada..:D
It's a shame with the new 2010+ Legacy model - I don't believe they come with the same VTD drivetrain technology as this 2008 model. I could be wrong, but I've seen quite a few videos of subarus not moving even with 2 wheels on the ground (one on each axle) because all the power use uselessly being sent to the (opposite) spinning wheels.
I've learnt a lot from this, thank you!
Turn the traction control/vsa off on the CR-V and it would make it up this ramp.
My Subi forester 2012, is the best on ice and snow. Feels like your driving on tarmac. And for those who say to try Audi, well VW's drive system is the same as Audi's. Same company, same thing.
For comparison:
Mitsubishi ASX 2WD 4WD LOCK test on rollers
Because this a comparison on cheaper economy vehicles, not Audi BMW or insanely priced Hummers. But, I do agree Quattro is also a superb system.
The Audi Q7 was disappointing when I noticed the front wheels just spinning in the snow and not enough torque to allow the rear axle to do its job. And its so much more than a Subaru.
@spencer769 I get to drive both cars and I love the Subaru (2002 Outback 83k) but for long trips the Audi wins hands down. Better cruising, more power and is now worth 1/2 of what the subie is! Subie steering feels a little better but it just feels like it's working too hard here in the mountains at 70-90mph. Sure if you don't have a good mechanic you might be in trouble but I have numerous pals who have had outback cylinder head problems. Also do 500+ mile trips in 05 Outback - same problem.
Subaru lover here, would be interesting to see a mitsubishi do this
I'm not understanding this video. The whole idea behind Honda's RTAWD system is to send power to the back wheels when the fronts start slipping. The video is not explaining why the AWD system is not engaging. Is it because the VSA (traction control) is engaged? If so, you can reach over and shut it off.
Yeah I would like to see a comparo vs. Audi Quattro. Then we will see who does what.
Does yours have VDC? that is subaru's new addition to their AWD that allows them to do that. It also is supposed to cure the diagonal spin.
Nonsense 🤣
Just let air out of the front!!
Best truck I've ever had .....did a Spain to Italy run .... never let me down...breezed through💫
@HuGx5 cuz the quatro system is the exact same thing as VW 4 motion
Thanks! No outback video at the moment, but expect the same results.
Damn good video def will help me make a decision on which i would like to get.
I wonder how Evo IX and GDB STI would compare on this test.
so basically what they're saying is that you need a locking transfer case "be it auto or manual" to climb that ramp?
Very impressing by Subaru, both the Elagcy and the forester, even though people talk and throw bad words at Subaru I respect it. If you are buying a new car I consider you buy a subie
What if you disable traction control? I have a 2016 AWD Rav4 with en electronic "central locker" (i know its not a real locker so don't bother pointing that out) and with the locker on, the awd system and with traction control off i have driven thru deep mud and sand, heck even with out traction control off it drives a little bit thru.
I am not saying its a proper off roader but for mud and sand it been great so far.
It appears that Subaru has the best awd system. I'm sold on it.
@t0rington a few days to realize a bump? should have been a minute.
thats fantastic!
but is my 92 loyale the same?
Good thing it's not a fwd test, or we would not see the front tires for lack of importance.