I was an OG Montage user who (over time) grew less satisfied with its Pianos, Organs, and Analog type synth sounds. Ultimately moved to playing Nord Stage 3… and then Stage 4. Sold OG Montage and didn’t miss it. After getting the Stage 4, Yamaha released the Montage M. Got the M8x… as it addressed many of my criticisms of the OG Montage. Aside from the slight sound improvement, there are many other benefits. ie: If you take the time to program all the (labeled) knobs/faders for real-time control, M feels a lot closer to playing something like a Stage 4. Programming with the knobs and secondary screen is a great improvement vs the OG. Montage M now allows up to 128 Elements for an individual sound (vs up to 8 in the OG). Having ESP, a 1:1 software plugin equivalent of the hardware M is a great convenience. Video processing in M is faster than OG… thus M’s real-time oscilloscope and faster touch response. M has double the user-sample RAM (vs the OG)… and user-samples have separate 128-voice polyphony. OG Montage was (is) a good workstation. M is an even more capable workstation. Price isn’t cheap, but not overly expensive (especially when compared to Nord). Biggest downside of M8x is the size/weight. ~80 pounds in a rigid soft wheeled case
Awhh, goosebumps at PSS-680 demo Kier!!!! ..... had this one for many teen years to cut my virtual synth teeth on. Loved that! ....maybe I'll buy it again for some nostalgia fix 😂👍🎹🎵
When I bought my 680 it made a horrible buzzing noise all the time, but after about 6 months of use it suddenly stopped. Not sure what that was all about, but the signal is clean now. I've started running it into the A/D inputs on the Montage to use its FX section, which actually makes the 680 pretty decent again!
I guess that’s the same reason I occasionally pull out my BOSS Dr Synth DS330 (Sound Canvas/GM) module and play through its 128 presets. Nothing like a little nostalgia to remind how far synths have come (as well as how some things haven’t really changed). I even bought a replacement power supply for it even though it’s mostly a conversation piece these days.
Great comparison and bang on cue as next week represents the anniversary of the new verson release here in the UK. To my ears am guessing that I'm slightly happier sat here listening as an original 8 owner that hasn't yet been tempted to drop the £4k to upgrade, rather than it being the other way around. To me sonically not always did the newer model come out on top and guess with a bit of processing that gap could be closed further. Obviously I know there's a lot more to consider with the newer model but my workflow has changed in the 9 years since the original release. Am waiting to see if that ESP VST version is ever released to non owners as that might be a better route for me. I'm not up to speed on the latest with that however. But in the end we all have different considerations when deciding to upgrade don't we. Cheers
There's a lot of things I really like out the M, and there are a handful of things that seem like a real step back from the original - like losing the ability to directly select elements, arpeggios and motion sequences with a single click on the button grid. All of those are multi-click, or knob-twiddling operations now, which is a real shame. I also really dislike the new on-screen colour scheme, where it's no longer immediately obvious in which state on/off controls are, and to my eyes, the activity on the VU meters next to individual parts is all but invisible. None of these were problems with the original Montage. I guess what I'm getting to is that having done this audio comparison, and listened to the full-quality recordings through a very high-end system, the audio quality on the M might be better, but it's not enough of an upgrade to make it a factor in deciding whether to move on from the original generation, which already has a pretty fantastic audio system.
I sold my old Montage7. Currently I am playing with a full software setup (two midi controllers, an audio board, a computer). I think Yamaha should add Hammond simulation like in YC family to make this one as a real top of the class workstation. I cannot spend 5000 bucks and look for an hammond sound elsewhere....
I realize the time/effort to make this video. IMO, If you want to directly compare the sound of the OG and M, you should have them playing the exact same parts. The Performance demonstrations are playing different scenes/variations (as you’re switching between the OG and M)… making it difficult to make a meaningful comparison.
That's true, and I did have an original version of the video where it simply had the OG playing the audition, followed by the M, but it was fairly tedious viewing, so I went for the semi-random cuts approach to make it a slightly more engaging watch. While there are a few performances (such as 8 Amps and a TC) that don't lend themselves very well to comparisons with this approach, I think there are probably enough performances that do allow direct comparison to make it useful.
The Montage series is quite remarkable, but in my opinion it will only be complete when all the sound synthesis engines that Yamaha has introduced are added. So far it only has two of the three, FM and AN. So VL remains to be added. Maybe some other patents that Yamaha owns, and hasn't presented yet. I take AWM for granted so I don't mention it.
And they even didn't include hammond simulation they have in YC series. This is really not acceptable for me. If I pay for a flagship, I want every technology available on it
@@furiobisotti8150 I agree with you. But this will be done in the next models of the MONTAGE series, or whatever they will have called it until then. This modular synth philosophy, as I would say, started with the legendary EX5, did it continue with the two? if I remember correctly, first models of the MOTIF series with the PLG cards, which for some reason, were discontinued by MOTIF. And reappeared with the MONTAGE series. For me Montage is an evolving synth. Roland does the same with the Fandom series and Korg with Oasys and Kronos.
@@dekatran Korg Oasys and Kronos had everything that Korg had to offer in a single device. Much more "modes" than Montage. I am more a Korg fan boy but as a matter of fact I sold my old Montage but I still own my very old Kronos...
@@furiobisotti8150 I have a korg Kronos but I believe they still have much more to offer in future workstation, I believe they might port more of their Korg Collection into a Workstation and continue to expand on this. For me what matters also are physical modelling technologies such as MOSS in Korg and I am also hoping they recreate the OASYS PCi as well and Virtual Acoustic in Yamaha.
@@alamy313 I agree. Workstations must become more powerful to fight against VSTs. I am not sure there is a future for these beasts. I think it is like with dinosaurs and reflex cameras. Too big and competing with faster animals...
On my little laptop speakers, there doesn't appear to be any difference between the old Montage and the Montage M. Would've been nice to see waveform information and/or spectral analyses. When I got my Montage M and played through presets for the first time, it seemed to be more lively an present than the original Montage. But only a tiny bit.
Sadly YT compression erases any possible subtle difference. I own a couple MONTAGE 6 and a MODX+. And, in the real life (i.e. on a gig) the sound difference is negligible. So I guess the MONTAGE "Classic" and the new one would fare similar. Another thing could be a high quality recording. But then you could use the USB audio interface and save directly on digital on your DAW, so the D/As on the MONTAGE wouldn't be the limiting factors. All in all, two great sounding synths!!!
Indeed - I do almost all my recording using the USB output so any quality improvement really only matters for direct monitoring in my case - but you're right, both Montage and Montage M are superb-sounding instruments.
@@KierDarby... Do you know, is the MODX identical sounding to the MODX+ (I was hoping they might sneak the higher sample rate convertors into the MODX+)
Ive 2 questions regarding the Montage M. A, with the increase in sample ROM -is there more samples in the new one? B, old montage has 8 AMW elements per sound part, new montage has 128... So is the new montage 128 note poly even at 128elements ?
Yes, there are more samples in the Montage M, in order to support the new pianos and various other new performances. Regarding polyphony, the limit is not actually based on notes, but on concurrent elements playing. If you have eight parts each with eight elements that all play with a single key, you will use 64 voices of polyphony, etc., so the number of elements each part can have in Montage M doesn’t actually affect the polyphony limit at all.
When the Montage first came out a big deal was made about the sound output. Then they made the Modx and no one said a thing. Now this new cash grab appears and suddenly the old Montage sounds bad compared to it. Way to sell the same thing to the same people. When the new 'White' model comes out, it too will sound better. Then the cut down Modx will follow and the sound will be great. Rinse and repeat.
To be fair, nobody ever said the MODX has a higher quality sound output than the Montage (and it doesn’t). The white Montage is identical to the original in every way, except colour. The sound quality is identical. For Montage M, the sound quality may be slightly better but the original Montage was already so good it’s very difficult to discern a difference.
@@KierDarby Nobody complained about the cheaper sound chips in the Modx because it made no real difference. They just said it sounded the same as the expensive Montage. I am aware the colored models are just different shells sold for more money. I was just pointing out the Yamaha cycle of product releases and the shilling that goes on. The original Montage was pushing the super knob pedal but that has died a death. A missed chance to get money. All I wanted from the Montage was the ability for it to remember what patch it was on when you switch it off like all gear made this century. Maybe next Montage release?
Nobody ‘complained’ about the MODX because for the price it’s a bargain, but it’s widely known that the analog audio output is not to the quality standard of the flagship, there are numerous videos on RUclips and posts on various forums discussing and demonstrating this.
And as with the DX7 and DX7II, some people will decide the latter is too clean and prefer the “dirt” of the OG! I admit I prefer the slightly less pristine audio outputs (and samples) of my Motif ES to either my MOXF or my Montage 6. Something about that grit.
I definitely miss some of the button grid functions, such as one-finger element/operator selection, which is now a shift-click on Montage M. Losing the ability to directly select arpeggio and motion sequence numbers is also a step backward. I think the on-screen colours of the Montage M are a major regression - I can barely see activity on the VU meters, and it’s really difficult to distinguish gadgets that can be on/off, such as SOLO as to their current state. I also find that I prefer the old way of picking the functions for the assignable knobs. The sub display offers a lot more flexibility, but the original Montage made it quicker to get to the stuff you commonly want to edit in a hurry.
@@KierDarby Also migrated from Montage 6 to Montage M6. Was not an easy decision. The button count on the M has indeed diminshed for some direct edits. I do appreciate the additonal knobs under the main display, left and right Shift buttons, portemento and ribbon control buttons. The key features that pushed me over the edge to M: YC VCM Rotary, ESP, higher power CPU to support future software effects (ie: shimmer reverb) and other potential future feature improvements. Portable M via ESP is very convienent when not in the studio.
It is the worst synth workstation ever, sound-wise. It sounds like a PSR 550😲. You'd better buy a TYROS, an old FANTOM, or even TRITON or KRONOS. Superknob is a good concept, but it has an obsolete sound engine combination and poor implementation. ZEN CORE and KORG ENGINE COMPILATION are great. YAMAHA no, down with it. ;)_
I was an OG Montage user who (over time) grew less satisfied with its Pianos, Organs, and Analog type synth sounds.
Ultimately moved to playing Nord Stage 3… and then Stage 4. Sold OG Montage and didn’t miss it.
After getting the Stage 4, Yamaha released the Montage M.
Got the M8x… as it addressed many of my criticisms of the OG Montage.
Aside from the slight sound improvement, there are many other benefits.
ie: If you take the time to program all the (labeled) knobs/faders for real-time control, M feels a lot closer to playing something like a Stage 4.
Programming with the knobs and secondary screen is a great improvement vs the OG.
Montage M now allows up to 128 Elements for an individual sound (vs up to 8 in the OG).
Having ESP, a 1:1 software plugin equivalent of the hardware M is a great convenience.
Video processing in M is faster than OG… thus M’s real-time oscilloscope and faster touch response.
M has double the user-sample RAM (vs the OG)… and user-samples have separate 128-voice polyphony.
OG Montage was (is) a good workstation.
M is an even more capable workstation.
Price isn’t cheap, but not overly expensive (especially when compared to Nord).
Biggest downside of M8x is the size/weight. ~80 pounds in a rigid soft wheeled case
IK!! .... tbh it's not the price, but form factor + kgs of 8x that puts me off.
Awhh, goosebumps at PSS-680 demo Kier!!!! ..... had this one for many teen years to cut my virtual synth teeth on. Loved that! ....maybe I'll buy it again for some nostalgia fix 😂👍🎹🎵
When I bought my 680 it made a horrible buzzing noise all the time, but after about 6 months of use it suddenly stopped. Not sure what that was all about, but the signal is clean now. I've started running it into the A/D inputs on the Montage to use its FX section, which actually makes the 680 pretty decent again!
@KierDarby Cool!! It's a fun, feature packed mini 'synth' 😎👍
I guess that’s the same reason I occasionally pull out my BOSS Dr Synth DS330 (Sound Canvas/GM) module and play through its 128 presets. Nothing like a little nostalgia to remind how far synths have come (as well as how some things haven’t really changed). I even bought a replacement power supply for it even though it’s mostly a conversation piece these days.
Great comparison and bang on cue as next week represents the anniversary of the new verson release here in the UK.
To my ears am guessing that I'm slightly happier sat here listening as an original 8 owner that hasn't yet been tempted to drop the £4k to upgrade, rather than it being the other way around. To me sonically not always did the newer model come out on top and guess with a bit of processing that gap could be closed further. Obviously I know there's a lot more to consider with the newer model but my workflow has changed in the 9 years since the original release. Am waiting to see if that ESP VST version is ever released to non owners as that might be a better route for me. I'm not up to speed on the latest with that however.
But in the end we all have different considerations when deciding to upgrade don't we. Cheers
There's a lot of things I really like out the M, and there are a handful of things that seem like a real step back from the original - like losing the ability to directly select elements, arpeggios and motion sequences with a single click on the button grid. All of those are multi-click, or knob-twiddling operations now, which is a real shame.
I also really dislike the new on-screen colour scheme, where it's no longer immediately obvious in which state on/off controls are, and to my eyes, the activity on the VU meters next to individual parts is all but invisible. None of these were problems with the original Montage.
I guess what I'm getting to is that having done this audio comparison, and listened to the full-quality recordings through a very high-end system, the audio quality on the M might be better, but it's not enough of an upgrade to make it a factor in deciding whether to move on from the original generation, which already has a pretty fantastic audio system.
I sold my old Montage7. Currently I am playing with a full software setup (two midi controllers, an audio board, a computer). I think Yamaha should add Hammond simulation like in YC family to make this one as a real top of the class workstation. I cannot spend 5000 bucks and look for an hammond sound elsewhere....
Great comparison, thanks!
I realize the time/effort to make this video.
IMO, If you want to directly compare the sound of the OG and M, you should have them playing the exact same parts.
The Performance demonstrations are playing different scenes/variations (as you’re switching between the OG and M)… making it difficult to make a meaningful comparison.
That's true, and I did have an original version of the video where it simply had the OG playing the audition, followed by the M, but it was fairly tedious viewing, so I went for the semi-random cuts approach to make it a slightly more engaging watch.
While there are a few performances (such as 8 Amps and a TC) that don't lend themselves very well to comparisons with this approach, I think there are probably enough performances that do allow direct comparison to make it useful.
Great video thanks!
The Montage series is quite remarkable, but in my opinion it will only be complete when all the sound synthesis engines that Yamaha has introduced are added. So far it only has two of the three, FM and AN. So VL remains to be added. Maybe some other patents that Yamaha owns, and hasn't presented yet. I take AWM for granted so I don't mention it.
And they even didn't include hammond simulation they have in YC series. This is really not acceptable for me. If I pay for a flagship, I want every technology available on it
@@furiobisotti8150 I agree with you. But this will be done in the next models of the MONTAGE series, or whatever they will have called it until then. This modular synth philosophy, as I would say, started with the legendary EX5, did it continue with the two? if I remember correctly, first models of the MOTIF series with the PLG cards, which for some reason, were discontinued by MOTIF. And reappeared with the MONTAGE series. For me Montage is an evolving synth. Roland does the same with the Fandom series and Korg with Oasys and Kronos.
@@dekatran Korg Oasys and Kronos had everything that Korg had to offer in a single device. Much more "modes" than Montage. I am more a Korg fan boy but as a matter of fact I sold my old Montage but I still own my very old Kronos...
@@furiobisotti8150 I have a korg Kronos but I believe they still have much more to offer in future workstation, I believe they might port more of their Korg Collection into a Workstation and continue to expand on this. For me what matters also are physical modelling technologies such as MOSS in Korg and I am also hoping they recreate the OASYS PCi as well and Virtual Acoustic in Yamaha.
@@alamy313 I agree. Workstations must become more powerful to fight against VSTs. I am not sure there is a future for these beasts. I think it is like with dinosaurs and reflex cameras. Too big and competing with faster animals...
On my little laptop speakers, there doesn't appear to be any difference between the old Montage and the Montage M.
Would've been nice to see waveform information and/or spectral analyses.
When I got my Montage M and played through presets for the first time, it seemed to be more lively an present than the original Montage. But only a tiny bit.
Laptop speakers !!!
Wash your mouth out with soap lol
Sadly YT compression erases any possible subtle difference. I own a couple MONTAGE 6 and a MODX+. And, in the real life (i.e. on a gig) the sound difference is negligible. So I guess the MONTAGE "Classic" and the new one would fare similar. Another thing could be a high quality recording. But then you could use the USB audio interface and save directly on digital on your DAW, so the D/As on the MONTAGE wouldn't be the limiting factors. All in all, two great sounding synths!!!
Indeed - I do almost all my recording using the USB output so any quality improvement really only matters for direct monitoring in my case - but you're right, both Montage and Montage M are superb-sounding instruments.
@@KierDarby... Do you know, is the MODX identical sounding to the MODX+ (I was hoping they might sneak the higher sample rate convertors into the MODX+)
@UFO-Ark MODX and MODX+ are absolutely identical in the audio output area, the only difference between the two relates to polyphony.
Ive 2 questions regarding the Montage M.
A, with the increase in sample ROM -is there more samples in the new one?
B, old montage has 8 AMW elements per sound part, new montage has 128... So is the new montage 128 note poly even at 128elements ?
Yes, there are more samples in the Montage M, in order to support the new pianos and various other new performances.
Regarding polyphony, the limit is not actually based on notes, but on concurrent elements playing. If you have eight parts each with eight elements that all play with a single key, you will use 64 voices of polyphony, etc., so the number of elements each part can have in Montage M doesn’t actually affect the polyphony limit at all.
When the Montage first came out a big deal was made about the sound output. Then they made the Modx and no one said a thing. Now this new cash grab appears and suddenly the old Montage sounds bad compared to it. Way to sell the same thing to the same people.
When the new 'White' model comes out, it too will sound better. Then the cut down Modx will follow and the sound will be great. Rinse and repeat.
To be fair, nobody ever said the MODX has a higher quality sound output than the Montage (and it doesn’t). The white Montage is identical to the original in every way, except colour. The sound quality is identical. For Montage M, the sound quality may be slightly better but the original Montage was already so good it’s very difficult to discern a difference.
@@KierDarby Nobody complained about the cheaper sound chips in the Modx because it made no real difference. They just said it sounded the same as the expensive Montage. I am aware the colored models are just different shells sold for more money. I was just pointing out the Yamaha cycle of product releases and the shilling that goes on. The original Montage was pushing the super knob pedal but that has died a death. A missed chance to get money. All I wanted from the Montage was the ability for it to remember what patch it was on when you switch it off like all gear made this century. Maybe next Montage release?
Nobody ‘complained’ about the MODX because for the price it’s a bargain, but it’s widely known that the analog audio output is not to the quality standard of the flagship, there are numerous videos on RUclips and posts on various forums discussing and demonstrating this.
And as with the DX7 and DX7II, some people will decide the latter is too clean and prefer the “dirt” of the OG! I admit I prefer the slightly less pristine audio outputs (and samples) of my Motif ES to either my MOXF or my Montage 6. Something about that grit.
Sounds like Akai vs Emu sampler.
For me I think the Original Montage had a neater Interface than the Montage M. Is it just me or what?
I definitely miss some of the button grid functions, such as one-finger element/operator selection, which is now a shift-click on Montage M. Losing the ability to directly select arpeggio and motion sequence numbers is also a step backward.
I think the on-screen colours of the Montage M are a major regression - I can barely see activity on the VU meters, and it’s really difficult to distinguish gadgets that can be on/off, such as SOLO as to their current state.
I also find that I prefer the old way of picking the functions for the assignable knobs. The sub display offers a lot more flexibility, but the original Montage made it quicker to get to the stuff you commonly want to edit in a hurry.
@@KierDarby Also migrated from Montage 6 to Montage M6. Was not an easy decision. The button count on the M has indeed diminshed for some direct edits. I do appreciate the additonal knobs under the main display, left and right Shift buttons, portemento and ribbon control buttons. The key features that pushed me over the edge to M: YC VCM Rotary, ESP, higher power CPU to support future software effects (ie: shimmer reverb) and other potential future feature improvements. Portable M via ESP is very convienent when not in the studio.
Might be a diff, but it still sounds sterile.
It is the worst synth workstation ever, sound-wise. It sounds like a PSR 550😲. You'd better buy a TYROS, an old FANTOM, or even TRITON or KRONOS. Superknob is a good concept, but it has an obsolete sound engine combination and poor implementation. ZEN CORE and KORG ENGINE COMPILATION are great. YAMAHA no, down with it. ;)_