Torque in a gasoline engine is the force of gasoline explosions concentrated into a circular motion on a crankshaft. As the engine revs up to faster crankshaft speeds, (rpm), the engine makes more horsepower. Horsepower is torque multiplied by rpm. (simplified). Put it this way, when you are pedaling a mutispeed bicycle up a hill, you have two choices. 1) Stand up and apply more force to those pedals, which puts more torque on the sprocket to push you up the hill, or 2) remain seated and switch to a lower gear so you can keep pedaling with the same force (torque), but pedaling much faster (rpm), making more horsepower with the same amount of torque.
Torque is what throws you back into your seat and horsepower is what gets you to top speeds. Semi-trucks have massive amounts of torque because they need to tow loads weighing as much as 80,000 lbs. but don't have nearly as much horse power because they rarely move faster than 75 mph. When racing, you want both to be as high as possible because torque is acceleration and horse power is top end speed, so both are equally as important.
David Birch thx bro, now i finally understand :D i seen calculations graphs and everything for 30 min and did not understand very much.. and u explain all what i needed to know within a quick read.
+David Birch Horsepower: 300 @ 5800 RPM Torque: 300 @ 1200 RPM vs Horsepower: 330 @ 7000 RPM Torque: 270 @ 5200 RPM typically which car would win in a race?
Marcus rimple it would depend on the track. Asuming you talking about the same chasis, if not there are a lot of factors, aerodinamics, weight, tires, suspension, etc,etc...
Not sure what it is, but Brian just has the right kind of charisma and presentation style to keep things consistently watchable and interesting. Don't let it go to your head though, Brian!
I'll make it very simple for people here: You putting 200 ft-lbs on a torque wrench is a lot of TORQUE. You putting 200 ft-lbs on a torque wrench COMBINED WITH doing it at 100 revolutions per second is a lot of HORSEPOWER. Guess which one you want. It's the latter.
With all faults adding to 5%, smarty pants identified them with passion. Can the intelligent viewers please identify the 95% and show a hand of appreciation for a job well done. He is not a university professor or a graduate engineer! I am so addicted to his simplicity and honesty, he doesn't put anyone or any product down but he is honest to talk about the good, Bad and ugly from his simple yet effective point of views in every show every time. On behalf of 99% we all say good work !
Watch the video again, it explains that rather well. Torque measures how hard the engine can twist - power is torque times speed, or rate of rotation, it tells you how much work is being done and how quickly. The figures are significant, because they tell you how much go the engine has got, but the graphs, the torque and power curves, can tell you a lot about the engine's character, about what it would be like to use, or drive.
What causes the dip in torque on the Scion? Thanks for all the vids. I have been watching Cnet on cars vid for about an hour now but it hasn't bored me.
Very likely that is the point of resonance where the air flow into the engine is disrupted. All non-turbo engines have this in their powerband somewhere, and usually they use cam and ignition timing to get rid of it on modern engines... It has to do with the fact that the plenum and runners are a set length so at a particular point in the RPM range the resonance from the intake valves opening causes a reversion of sorts until the pumping can over come the losses from the resonance. A lot of this can be overcome with variable valves and timing, but the Scion doesn't have a very good system to do that unfortunately. Mind you that was a vastly simplified explanation of what you were asking. There is obvious far more to it than that, including how much volume your intake system can hold and how fast the engine can reduce that capacity into a vacuum, and etc...
Neither torque nor power are direct measures of work. Torque must be multiplied by rotation angle to get work. Power must be multiplied by time to get work. Torque is force applied at a distance offset from an axis, and perpendicular to both the lever arm connecting it to the axis and to the axis itself. Work is the integral of torque over the angle of turning achieved by the applied torque. Power is the rate at which work is accomplished. Units: Torque = (ft*lbf) or (N*m), where the force is perpendicular to the axis of rotation, and offset from it. Work = (ft*lbf * rad) or (N*m * rad), or some conversion with the same physical units. The angle is the angle turned on the axis by means of the torque. (Radians are unitless, or a measure of distance around a circle divided by the radius of that same circle.) Power = (ft*lbf * rad/sec) or (N*m * rad/sec), or some conversion for time, angle or preferred unit for power such as horsepower. An example of the relation between Power and Torque using English units is: Power (HP) = Torque (ft*lbf) * angular_rate (rev/min) * 2*pi (rad/rev) * 1/60 (min/sec) * 1/550 (HP / (ft*lbf) ) or substituting in the conversion factors... Power (HP) = Torque (ft*lbf) * angular_rate (RPM) / 5252.1 (ft*lbf * RPM / HP) Relationship to Work: Work (ft*lbf * rad) = Power (ft*lbf * rad/sec) * time (sec) Work (ft*lbf * rad) = Torque (ft*lbf) * angle_turned (rad) Overcoming friction and air drag requires torque to balance the load. If you want to accelerate, you need excess torque. If you want to sustain high speed while pulling a heavy load up an incline, you need power. The work is accomplished by moving the load to a higher elevation, and the power indicates the rate at which the load was raised vertically. Torque is what's available at the current time for turning a load. Power is the rate at which that torque can continue to be supplied for turning a load.
HP dictates acceleration. torque is completely meaningless with out knowing the RPM of the engine or motor. acceleration=power(mass/velocity) this means acceleration is proportional to power at any given vehicle speed. "torque' is and can only be used if you are talking about rear wheel torque and forces, which no one goes through the calculations to figure out. (i.e. engine torque x gear ratios, tire diameter, etc). Now, if you are taking rear wheel forces, then yes, rear wheel torque , as measured and calculated at the wheels will determine acceleration... but hp will as well, because power = force x velocity too! :)
+Justin Boyer Switching from port injection to direct injection. The FRS/BRZ uses both injection techniques. A custom tune allows the transition to be seamless and you remove that dip. (the dip is there because between those RPM's, less fuel is entering the engine per combustion.)
What a great video! I have another question though: What happens when the power and torque lines end at the right hand-side of the chart? Is the engine shut?
Foot pound is a unit of measure like miles per hour. Torque is expressed as the force required to lift one pound of weight one foot. 500ft/lb of torque = force able to raise 500lbs one foot.
torque is the force gives you instant acceleration (F=ma) Power is torque over a given period of time You shift down a gear to accelerate due to a shorter gear and more torque. Worth noting acceleration (in g's) follows torque curve. A shorter final drive ratio gives a greater acceleration across the rpm range. More torque at wheels but same power. Example- An e39m5 will keep up with an e60m5 (similar weights) up until 5000rpm despite having a PEAK power of 100bhp LESS Its because it makes more torque up to 5000rpm and therefore more power. The gearing and high redline of the e60 doesn't come into play until high up in the revs range.
mazin2892 Ok eng is not my first language so technicalities are a little tough for me. I have one question, where exactly does torque apply in the car? Do those numbers mean that torque is of that value from the engine trough the clutch to the input shaft or from the output shaft to the wheels?
The torque provided by the manufacturer is always from the engine. Torque at the wheel can be altered through gearing and is more important. Ultimately you still need an adequate amount of power to use the torque. Think about diesels, huge torque but generally low(er) on power so they don't pull as hard as their petrol counterparts i.e. 335d vs 335i.
People who say it's all about the peak horsepower figure, when it comes to acceleration, are right if engine wear and engine noise at peak hp RPM don't bother you. If you take Engine A that has 100 hp at 6000 rpm and Engine B that has 100 hp at 3000 rpm, Engine B will likely have much less than a fourth of the wear and quarter the noise at the same rate of acceleration. The thing is Engine B has at least twice the torque at 3000 rpm as Engine A and Engine A is likely only putting out 50 hp at 3000 rpm. Engine A will feel weak and only accelerate fast if you drive it like you stole it. Engine B is best to live with day in day out, if you want to accelerate at the same rate with Engine A as Engine B you have to have the RPM twice as high in every situation. A high revving engine is good for 20 years-olds that also like uncomfortable drop suspensions, roaring exhausts and other gimmicky things that are for show. Another way to state this, that often is not explained well, is the torque at any given RPM is directly proportional to the hp at that same RPM. So an engine with higher torque at low RPM has proportionally higher horsepower at that same low RPM, which is why Engine B would feel twice as "powerful" in everyday driving. Now I didn't say Engine B has a peak hp of 100 hp - (it's 100 hp @3000 RPM) there is nothing, conceivably, that stops Engine B from producing 200 hp @6000 rpm. But let's say it's tuned to have max 150 hp @4500 RPM, and Engine A is "suptertuned" to produce 150 hp @9000 RPM, one can make a strong case that it's much better to go with Engine B because 99% of the time you will get the satisfaction of quiet effortless power without having to keep downshifting at every acceleration demand in Engine A. Engine A is only good for it's weight savings that could give the car an edge in track racing only if the engine is kept in the 9000 rpm screaming range to give it the 150 hp. If that's your preference, good luck on rebuilding or replacing your engine frequently. For reference in the 1980s a 2.0L engine would typically produce 100 hp and have about 100 lb-ft of torque a 4.0L would typically be double the torque number although in the 1980s the peak hp on a 4.0L would be more like 150 hp @4500RPM. At 3000 RPM the 4.0 would be putting out 100 hp and the 2.0 would be putting out 50 hp @3000RPM. So still the 4.0 would be nicer to drive for those that value less noise and engine wear. Next time when buy a car, research what hp does it give at 2000 rpm and at 3000 rpm, Why? Because that the engine speed you will be at most of the time when not driving in a race. PS. I love high horsepower at low RPM which is why I'm a big fan of Tesla and certain Hybrid cars. A car with 100 hp at 2000 rpm which translates to about 150 hp @ 3000 rpm or put another way (300 lb-ft from 2000 to 3000 rpm) and it's is going to feel very fast and effortless to drive akin to a 6.0 L naturally aspirated engine. Even a 2012 Camry Hybrid puts out this power in this RPM range which is why "non-technical" journalists talk about being surprised by its effortless acceleration when they reviewed the Camry Hybrid.
Only because you don't know better on this topic, right from the start he told you something that was false. He said the both measure work which is not remotely correct. Torque measures force, not work. HP measures work. C\Net's computer stuff is no better either as an expert you realize very quickly they are just journalist hacks.
GlassTopRX7 Also torque is not force. It's force multiplied by distance, which in unit terms is work. Or it is twisting force. But it is not force, which acts linearly. You just shouldn't be commenting.
no you are all wrong... torque is a force. its just rotational. if it had a distance associated with it, it would be work. HP is the rate of doing work. HP-seconds is a unit measure of work...... he who uses the most amount of HP seconds, wins the race. optimizing engine HP not engine torque, wins races. HP dictates the torque (or linear force) to the rear tires.
Great explanation! A simple way to understand. I always kept reading on this torque and hp, but was always confused. This really cleared it up, especially the chart section. But really why the Scion dips in it's torque?
+Because I'm Batman! Because in a normal car, the manufacture have to make compromises on torque and HP, this compromises will dictate what engine size (displacement) and gearbox ratio will be needed by the car. One of the "usual" compromises most manufactures have to do is the camshaft profile (for the timing and lift of the valves of the engine) for meeting the goal of their designed engine. But this Scion (part of the Toyota family) have VVTi tecnology, this means they have the advantage to adjust the timing of the valves to be on "one setting" at lower RPM, and then in "other setting" at higher RPMs. So the dip in torque for this scion, most probably is related to the first setting of the cam's timing getting "depleted" and then the VVTi systems kicks in with the "second setting" (higher RPM) getting activated, bringing torque up again.
+ilham Defra both are equally important, but torque is what moves a heavy truck forward. trucks don't need to go fast. they just need to move forward. they also need to be super reliable. a million mile semi-truck engine over just a few years doesn't even blink an eye. the way to accomplish that is to use a low revving engine. semi truck engines have a redline of like 2500rpm and can cruise at 1200rpm once they are at freeway speeds. semi-trucks are on fixed determinable schedules so they have no reason to go "fast" , it is a matter of economizing. If you wanted to, you could throw a high revving diesel into a semi-truck and it would go very fast but would be economically unfeasible other than as a show car.
thats not what hes asking and besides not every car uses a torque converter. Torque is not irrelevant at all. If you have a fast car(= no torque converter) power is good but torque is very important aswell. Theres too much 1k hp supras out there with big turbos who cant get going unless youre at 7k rpm, and thats because they develop shit torque and power in the lower rpms
REASAND5 All cars have torque converters...what you mean is a hydraulic clutch (Which is a type of torque converter). And most 1Khp supras get going at 4-5krpm...what is the problem? That they leave you in the dust?
The Esseboy there are no torque converters in cars with manual gearboxes, dual clutch gearboxes, cvts and automated manuals. the only cars with torque converters are shit american automatics. 1k hp supras are stupid except for drag racing. They lack everything except for the top end because of the big turbo. So drivability is total shit
REASAND5 Torque converter, an object that increases or decreases torque. (In other words a transmission) Because they use a Turbo setup they set the wastegate lower for street use and advance the timing a bit, gives you less HP but beter drivability.
No, power is the figure based on how many times you can use the twisting force per minute. If you have 300lbs of torque at 3200rpm, you have 182 power. If you have that same 300lbs at 4200rpm, you have 240 power. If you have 300lbs at 5200rpm, you have 297 power..... See, power is ONLY a product of how many times you can USE the twisting force per minute! Power itself isn't the force. It is purely a representing figure of how many times you can use how much torque per minute. People don't know this, and that's why it sells. They hear "power" without understanding what it actually means. Power is nothing but a word. That's why torque is ACTUALLY the star, but is ignored, while power is the Kanye West of the two. He's really nothing at all, but advertised everywhere anyways, so people know him. If you take torque away, you take power away. Simple as that. Torque makes your power. Torque is the star.
If you have 200 hp, you can turn at 4,000 rpm and have 263 lb-ft of torque, or you can turn at 100 rpm at have 10,505 lb-ft of torque, or you can turn at 1 rpm and have over one million lb-ft of torque. Torque is irrelevant because you can always change it with gearing, but power determines how much torque you can produce at a given rpm, so the more power you can produce, the faster you can apply a certain amount of torque. This is why the power to weight ratio of a car matters, not the torque to weight ratio. Power is the star, period.
On the same numbers, let's use the 300lbs at 5200 rpm making 297 horse. Let's take the torque down to 250. Now you only have 247 horsepower... 50 less power because you took away 50lbs at 5200rpm. How about at 4200? That 240 horse becomes 200 horse... 40 horse down because you lost 50lbs at 4200 rpm... See, your power is just a representing number. That's it. Power is not how fast you can use power, nor is it the twisting force. Power is how many times you can use a given torque figure per minute. That's it. Horsepower=torque*rpm/5252. If you have the horsepower number, then Torque=horspower*5252/rpm.... Factory specs on a 90s Dodge Ram 318ci V8 is 220horse at 4400rpm, 300lbs at 3200rpm. So torque at peak horse is 220*5252/4400= 262.6lbs of torque at 4400rpm. Horsepower at peak torque is 300*3200/5252= 182.7 horsepower at 3200rpm. Obviously the torque is dropping fast. That's why peak power for that motor is reached at only 4400 rpm and is such a low power figure.
+idontcare80 you're so VERY wrong with that. First off, 200 horsepower at 4000 rpm is 152.3 lbs of torque... Well, actually, it's 152.3lbs of torque at 4000rpm is 200 horsepower. Secondly, 10,505 torque at 100 rpm is 200 horse also... 1,000,000 torque at 1rpm is 190 horsepower... The point is, torque is giving you that power number. If you had that 10,505 torque at 100rpm, just imagine how much MORE power you could have by having that torque at 2000rpm! That's 4000.38 horsepower!!! All because you changed what RPM your TORQUE number is at! Torque can not be simply changed thru gearing. You mean to tell me that thru gearing a 300lb of torque motor could be geared to make 600lbs of torque? Lol. Yeah, through hundreds of gears. It's possible, but it's not feasible. That's why it's never done. The only reasonable gearing change you can do is to prevent losses at the sacrifice of increasing RPM. That's why you gain acceleration but lose top speed capability with a gear change.
Give me a torquey turbodiesel engine any day over a petrol because the torque is what really counts for accelerating in everyday driving. Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear drove an Audi A8 4.0 Tdi for 800 miles on one 20 gallon tank of diesel, that car produces 'only' 275hp at 3750rpm, but it produces 650Nm of torque between 1800 and 2500rpm and does 0-100km/h in 6.7 seconds. Petrol cars just can't give that perfect combination of power and incredible fuel range.
But we don't normally drive around at 4-6k RPM (at least us normal folk with our normal cars); how does changing the gears affect torque/HP? Will that graph look pretty much the same, with the difference being that the X-axis would be the gear number? Or is that graph showing the torque and HP for all gears?
Horsepower is a measurement of torque, that was done by James Watt the man who invented the steam engine to help promote his new invention in the 1700's back when people used horses to work and get around... he came up with this equation (HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252) by tying a rope to a horse, passing that rope in a pulley and making the horse lift a load, then he measure the rate at witch the horse could lift the weight and turn the pulley and that's it... all this does is convert actual torque into another measuring unit that to this day is a compared to the work capability's of an animal... the supposed sweet crossover from T to HP is always going to be 5252RPM because of the measurement... we made it that way. I guess my point is horsepower is something we made up to compare torque to the pulling power of a horse or horses, in this case one particular horse who lived in the 1700's/// its like saying miles and kilometers are 2 different measurements... no they measure the same thing, but described it in a different way. kilometers is the more accurate measurement by the way.
No, you could change the gearing of a low torque, high rpm engine with the same horsepower and pull just as much weight, just as effectively. It's about wheel torque, not flywheel torque, something this video neglected to point out (gearing 'tranforms' engine power, trading torque and rpm). For hauling, you would choose the high torque engine (e.g. low rpm turbo-diesel) for longevity and efficiency reasons, but that's another matter.
So could torque also be seen as a boost of energy assisting horsepower (or like an afterburner on a jetfighter) that has an absolute optimum, then powers down gradually?
horsepower is a derivative of torque and how fast the engine spins. The F1 might have low torque because of small displacement but they rev to 18000 rpms, thus the 750 hp
i was gonna say that this video had the best explanation to simplify what both mean...until i read the comments saying hes defining horsepower wrong. Now my brain is like mush. haha
You are right, but ANY car can be fast in organized racing. Not in regular cars though. Unless you spend huge amounts of money to have a little honda compete with other stock or lightly modded cars.
What about electric motors, Brian? Excluding the Model S and Roadster. Most EVs have twice the torque than the horsepower it has at the very beginning of the RPM range.
Think of two bodybuilders, both have 400 Torque for descriptive purposes. One bodybuilder has 200 horsepower and the other 400 hp. Both can bench 400 lbs 10 times. The 200 hp bodybuilder can do it in 20 seconds, but the 400 hp bodybuilder can do it in 10 seconds. The 400 hp bodybuilder can move the weight faster. Same way with hp and torque on a vehicle, torque is how much force is being pushed, and horsepower is how fast you can push it.
+Ironwind1972 interesting analogy...what about if the 400hp body builder had 200 Torque? how would the analogy change? the 200 Torque guy could push 200 lbs in far less time than the 400 Torque but he could not push the 400 lbs at all? sound about right?
+icarrydateam Spot on man. Take modern day crotch rockets, they have large hp numbers, but not near the torque. They rev high and fast, and move a smaller amount of weight quickly . Now put the same motor in a car, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Ironwind1972 yes i think that makes sense..similarly for SUVs. big heavy cars with tons of torque but usually lower hp than torque. throwing one of those engines into a sports car isn't going to make it faster with the same principle as the crotch rockets. thanks mate! i think this is an awesome analogy. you rock!
in this video it is described like torque and HP are two seperate things, not having to do anything with eachother. in reality it is a different story. hp composes of torque and rpm. torque alone is not taking you anywhere. its like saying a bodybuilder can run faster than anyone else because he is stronger.
HP also is the rate of change of KE. so if you want to accelerate in 1 second from 60mph 70mph, and you start at 1M Joules, and at 70mph the Joules is 1.5M... that would be 670hp. why, because there are 746joules in a HP-second. (1 watt-second = a Joule) the difference of the two speeds was : 500,000 J 500K/746 = 670hp
because diesels can not rev higher than ~5000 rpms. Horsepower is directly related to torque and engine revs. Horsepower is calculated from torque x rpms /5252 = break horsepower
Torque of a electric motor is constant from 0 rpm to max rpm, Just imagine one horizontal straight line (torque), and one straight line with an angle (hp)
HP is a measure of work, torque is a measure of force, they measure different things. In that regard what he said was not correct. Here is the formula for HP, HP=(RPM x Torque) / 5252, for me at least seeing the formula was the first step in understanding it. Acceleration is all about torque and how long you can maintain that level of force through the rev range. An engine like the Cummins diesel produces a massive amount of torque 440lbs but has fairly low hp ~215, the power band is from 1600-2500 rpm. Where as a 4.4 BMW V8 is around 340lbs of torque and ~440hp. The Diesel is the more powerful engine, but it's narrow power band is going to limit acceleration effective duration. That would be the point which you would shift to get back to the usable range. The BMW engines power band is from 4000-8000 it's not as powerful but the power it does deliver is over a long range requiring fewer shifts. Here a real world example that baffles many on the surface. My car make 450 hp and 350lbs of torque, dropping a V8 with 450 hp and 450lbs of torque doesn't make it any faster 0-60 in fact it's slower. The reason being is because of limited traction and number of shifts required. The engine in my car is right at the limits of what the tires can put down, more torque is of no use at this point. Now stretch it out to the 1/4 mile, both cars run nearly the same time with difference being in trap speed. Once the tires have enough grip, the V8 is able to make up the lost ground due to it's greater torque and by this point the number of shifts are equal. That is really how the scenario played out too.
I'll give you the simple answer, the vehicle with the higher hp will always out-accelerate the vehicle with lower hp, given they are equally heavy, and have equal drag.
I am a bit slow with physics. But what will I need to accelerate on a uphill drive, more torque or more horsepower? Assuming I have a fully loaded car.
GlassTopRX7 Correction. Acceleration is all about torque. But acceleration combined with angular speed is what's needed to accelerate something as massive as a car. Your 300 ft-lb with a torque wrench won't move a car hardly at all, because you can't generate 300 ft-lb with any speed.
More torque will help, but you need horsepower to gain speed. If you're a big semi truck, you probably don't care about speed, so you just need tons of torque and average HP to get moving. If you're in a hurry, you need big HP to go along with the big torque.
Brilliant. Send this to anyone that talks about horsepower all day.
Torque in a gasoline engine is the force of gasoline explosions concentrated into a circular motion on a crankshaft. As the engine revs up to faster crankshaft speeds, (rpm), the engine makes more horsepower. Horsepower is torque multiplied by rpm. (simplified).
Put it this way, when you are pedaling a mutispeed bicycle up a hill, you have two choices. 1) Stand up and apply more force to those pedals, which puts more torque on the sprocket to push you up the hill, or 2) remain seated and switch to a lower gear so you can keep pedaling with the same force (torque), but pedaling much faster (rpm), making more horsepower with the same amount of torque.
Torque is what throws you back into your seat and horsepower is what gets you to top speeds. Semi-trucks have massive amounts of torque because they need to tow loads weighing as much as 80,000 lbs. but don't have nearly as much horse power because they rarely move faster than 75 mph. When racing, you want both to be as high as possible because torque is acceleration and horse power is top end speed, so both are equally as important.
Thank you lol
David Birch thx bro, now i finally understand :D
i seen calculations graphs and everything for 30 min and did not understand very much.. and u explain all what i needed to know within a quick read.
+David Birch I understand this by my cycling experience, since I am an engine at that moment.
+David Birch
Horsepower: 300 @ 5800 RPM Torque: 300 @ 1200 RPM vs Horsepower: 330 @ 7000 RPM Torque: 270 @ 5200 RPM typically which car would win in a race?
Marcus rimple it would depend on the track. Asuming you talking about the same chasis, if not there are a lot of factors, aerodinamics, weight, tires, suspension, etc,etc...
Not sure what it is, but Brian just has the right kind of charisma and presentation style to keep things consistently watchable and interesting. Don't let it go to your head though, Brian!
I'll make it very simple for people here:
You putting 200 ft-lbs on a torque wrench is a lot of TORQUE.
You putting 200 ft-lbs on a torque wrench COMBINED WITH doing it at 100 revolutions per second is a lot of HORSEPOWER.
Guess which one you want. It's the latter.
With all faults adding to 5%, smarty pants identified them with passion. Can the intelligent viewers please identify the 95% and show a hand of appreciation for a job well done. He is not a university professor or a graduate engineer! I am so addicted to his simplicity and honesty, he doesn't put anyone or any product down but he is honest to talk about the good, Bad and ugly from his simple yet effective point of views in every show every time. On behalf of 99% we all say good work !
Watch the video again, it explains that rather well. Torque measures how hard the engine can twist - power is torque times speed, or rate of rotation, it tells you how much work is being done and how quickly. The figures are significant, because they tell you how much go the engine has got, but the graphs, the torque and power curves, can tell you a lot about the engine's character, about what it would be like to use, or drive.
This guy is awesome. One of the few I like listening to.
Fantastic video. This guy is amazing at explaining things. I never really understood the difference between the two until now.
Love this. I've been watching quite a few car review videos online and have never fully grasp the horsepower torque thing. Now I know.
Good Video.
Nice charts, where to find more on this charts?
I'm grateful for this video for elucidating very essential and important points
Don't ever loosen any bolts or nuts using torque wrench guys.
Addicus Taylor
you will mess up the calibration of the torque wrench
+thabg007 Then what do you use it for
+FroztiProductions it is used to tighten only
+thabg007 Consider mine fucked up.
Hello people from four years ago
Best explanation I've seen. Thanks.
This is a fascinating seminal exposition thank you
What causes the dip in torque on the Scion? Thanks for all the vids. I have been watching Cnet on cars vid for about an hour now but it hasn't bored me.
Very likely that is the point of resonance where the air flow into the engine is disrupted. All non-turbo engines have this in their powerband somewhere, and usually they use cam and ignition timing to get rid of it on modern engines... It has to do with the fact that the plenum and runners are a set length so at a particular point in the RPM range the resonance from the intake valves opening causes a reversion of sorts until the pumping can over come the losses from the resonance.
A lot of this can be overcome with variable valves and timing, but the Scion doesn't have a very good system to do that unfortunately.
Mind you that was a vastly simplified explanation of what you were asking. There is obvious far more to it than that, including how much volume your intake system can hold and how fast the engine can reduce that capacity into a vacuum, and etc...
Joe11Blue thanks! at least i have somewhere to start. thanks again
Loving the top gear footage, hope you paid the BBC a royalty!
Is torque the reason why the f1 drivers got more wheelspin when they went to turbo engines?
Neither torque nor power are direct measures of work.
Torque must be multiplied by rotation angle to get work.
Power must be multiplied by time to get work.
Torque is force applied at a distance offset from an axis, and perpendicular to both the lever arm connecting it to the axis and to the axis itself.
Work is the integral of torque over the angle of turning achieved by the applied torque.
Power is the rate at which work is accomplished.
Units:
Torque = (ft*lbf) or (N*m), where the force is perpendicular to the axis of rotation, and offset from it.
Work = (ft*lbf * rad) or (N*m * rad), or some conversion with the same physical units. The angle is the angle turned on the axis by means of the torque. (Radians are unitless, or a measure of distance around a circle divided by the radius of that same circle.)
Power = (ft*lbf * rad/sec) or (N*m * rad/sec), or some conversion for time, angle or preferred unit for power such as horsepower.
An example of the relation between Power and Torque using English units is:
Power (HP) = Torque (ft*lbf) * angular_rate (rev/min) * 2*pi (rad/rev) * 1/60 (min/sec) * 1/550 (HP / (ft*lbf) )
or substituting in the conversion factors...
Power (HP) = Torque (ft*lbf) * angular_rate (RPM) / 5252.1 (ft*lbf * RPM / HP)
Relationship to Work:
Work (ft*lbf * rad) = Power (ft*lbf * rad/sec) * time (sec)
Work (ft*lbf * rad) = Torque (ft*lbf) * angle_turned (rad)
Overcoming friction and air drag requires torque to balance the load.
If you want to accelerate, you need excess torque.
If you want to sustain high speed while pulling a heavy load up an incline,
you need power. The work is accomplished by moving the load to a higher elevation, and the power indicates the rate at which the load was raised vertically.
Torque is what's available at the current time for turning a load.
Power is the rate at which that torque can continue to be supplied for turning a load.
Thank you, but for good acceleration which is more effect hp or torque?
HP dictates acceleration. torque is completely meaningless with out knowing the RPM of the engine or motor.
acceleration=power(mass/velocity)
this means acceleration is proportional to power at any given vehicle speed.
"torque' is and can only be used if you are talking about rear wheel torque and forces, which no one goes through the calculations to figure out. (i.e. engine torque x gear ratios, tire diameter, etc).
Now, if you are taking rear wheel forces, then yes, rear wheel torque , as measured and calculated at the wheels will determine acceleration... but hp will as well, because power = force x velocity too! :)
Thank you so much for this video! :)
First explanation of this that actually makes some sense. Thank you!
what causes the scion to dip like that through a gear?
+Justin Boyer I'm also interested in that
+Justin Boyer Switching from port injection to direct injection. The FRS/BRZ uses both injection techniques. A custom tune allows the transition to be seamless and you remove that dip. (the dip is there because between those RPM's, less fuel is entering the engine per combustion.)
+Chris Graham So does it slow down the speed??
No it doesn't slow down the speed, because there's still positive acceleration. Speed is still increasing, just not as fast as it could be
+Chris Graham Is this due to some sort of Turbo-Lag?
What a great video! I have another question though:
What happens when the power and torque lines end at the right hand-side of the chart? Is the engine shut?
finally an intellectual video that explains the most basic idea of the power plant
I luv your vid better than everyone else.
The FRS has a dip in the tq-curve because of the dual injection system. I'm sure you can bypass that by changing the fuel mapping.
nice sir :D
Super Explanation!
there is SI units (N m), and there is US units (lb ft) which is used often in US instead of SI units
Foot pound is a unit of measure like miles per hour. Torque is expressed as the force required to lift one pound of weight one foot. 500ft/lb of torque = force able to raise 500lbs one foot.
Dude's explaination is best.
torque is the force gives you instant acceleration (F=ma)
Power is torque over a given period of time
You shift down a gear to accelerate due to a shorter gear and more torque.
Worth noting acceleration (in g's) follows torque curve.
A shorter final drive ratio gives a greater acceleration across the rpm range. More torque at wheels but same power.
Example-
An e39m5 will keep up with an e60m5 (similar weights) up until 5000rpm despite having a PEAK power of 100bhp LESS
Its because it makes more torque up to 5000rpm and therefore more power. The gearing and high redline of the e60 doesn't come into play until high up in the revs range.
mazin2892 Ok eng is not my first language so technicalities are a little tough for me. I have one question, where exactly does torque apply in the car? Do those numbers mean that torque is of that value from the engine trough the clutch to the input shaft or from the output shaft to the wheels?
The torque provided by the manufacturer is always from the engine.
Torque at the wheel can be altered through gearing and is more important.
Ultimately you still need an adequate amount of power to use the torque. Think about diesels, huge torque but generally low(er) on power so they don't pull as hard as their petrol counterparts i.e. 335d vs 335i.
ok thank you very much, it was a little bit confusing before.
Maybe the fact that the lorry has 8 times f1 torque but 50 times f1 weight has something to do,
hoche27
Maybe too much of an exaggeration. Re-worded it all anyway.
Thanks for the through explanation.
People who say it's all about the peak horsepower figure, when it comes to acceleration, are right if engine wear and engine noise at peak hp RPM don't bother you. If you take Engine A that has 100 hp at 6000 rpm and Engine B that has 100 hp at 3000 rpm, Engine B will likely have much less than a fourth of the wear and quarter the noise at the same rate of acceleration. The thing is Engine B has at least twice the torque at 3000 rpm as Engine A and Engine A is likely only putting out 50 hp at 3000 rpm. Engine A will feel weak and only accelerate fast if you drive it like you stole it. Engine B is best to live with day in day out, if you want to accelerate at the same rate with Engine A as Engine B you have to have the RPM twice as high in every situation. A high revving engine is good for 20 years-olds that also like uncomfortable drop suspensions, roaring exhausts and other gimmicky things that are for show.
Another way to state this, that often is not explained well, is the torque at any given RPM is directly proportional to the hp at that same RPM. So an engine with higher torque at low RPM has proportionally higher horsepower at that same low RPM, which is why Engine B would feel twice as "powerful" in everyday driving. Now I didn't say Engine B has a peak hp of 100 hp - (it's 100 hp @3000 RPM) there is nothing, conceivably, that stops Engine B from producing 200 hp @6000 rpm. But let's say it's tuned to have max 150 hp @4500 RPM, and Engine A is "suptertuned" to produce 150 hp @9000 RPM, one can make a strong case that it's much better to go with Engine B because 99% of the time you will get the satisfaction of quiet effortless power without having to keep downshifting at every acceleration demand in Engine A. Engine A is only good for it's weight savings that could give the car an edge in track racing only if the engine is kept in the 9000 rpm screaming range to give it the 150 hp. If that's your preference, good luck on rebuilding or replacing your engine frequently.
For reference in the 1980s a 2.0L engine would typically produce 100 hp and have about 100 lb-ft of torque a 4.0L would typically be double the torque number although in the 1980s the peak hp on a 4.0L would be more like 150 hp @4500RPM. At 3000 RPM the 4.0 would be putting out 100 hp and the 2.0 would be putting out 50 hp @3000RPM. So still the 4.0 would be nicer to drive for those that value less noise and engine wear.
Next time when buy a car, research what hp does it give at 2000 rpm and at 3000 rpm, Why? Because that the engine speed you will be at most of the time when not driving in a race. PS. I love high horsepower at low RPM which is why I'm a big fan of Tesla and certain Hybrid cars. A car with 100 hp at 2000 rpm which translates to about 150 hp @ 3000 rpm or put another way (300 lb-ft from 2000 to 3000 rpm) and it's is going to feel very fast and effortless to drive akin to a 6.0 L naturally aspirated engine. Even a 2012 Camry Hybrid puts out this power in this RPM range which is why "non-technical" journalists talk about being surprised by its effortless acceleration when they reviewed the Camry Hybrid.
This guy is a greatest teacher.
Only because you don't know better on this topic, right from the start he told you something that was false. He said the both measure work which is not remotely correct. Torque measures force, not work. HP measures work.
C\Net's computer stuff is no better either as an expert you realize very quickly they are just journalist hacks.
GlassTopRX7 Actually HP measures power, not work.
GlassTopRX7 HP measures power, the rate at which work is done.
GlassTopRX7 Also torque is not force. It's force multiplied by distance, which in unit terms is work. Or it is twisting force. But it is not force, which acts linearly. You just shouldn't be commenting.
no you are all wrong... torque is a force. its just rotational. if it had a distance associated with it, it would be work. HP is the rate of doing work. HP-seconds is a unit measure of work...... he who uses the most amount of HP seconds, wins the race. optimizing engine HP not engine torque, wins races. HP dictates the torque (or linear force) to the rear tires.
This video should have at least 10 "Like" buttons to press on
Great video!
Great explanation!
A simple way to understand. I always kept reading on this torque and hp, but was always confused. This really cleared it up, especially the chart section.
But really why the Scion dips in it's torque?
+Because I'm Batman!
Because in a normal car, the manufacture have to make compromises on torque and HP, this compromises will dictate what engine size (displacement) and gearbox ratio will be needed by the car.
One of the "usual" compromises most manufactures have to do is the camshaft profile (for the timing and lift of the valves of the engine) for meeting the goal of their designed engine. But this Scion (part of the Toyota family) have VVTi tecnology, this means they have the advantage to adjust the timing of the valves to be on "one setting" at lower RPM, and then in "other setting" at higher RPMs.
So the dip in torque for this scion, most probably is related to the first setting of the cam's timing getting "depleted" and then the VVTi systems kicks in with the "second setting" (higher RPM) getting activated, bringing torque up again.
It is the opposit!
Honda Civic type R vs Civic CTDI. Whitch ones do you think it wins the race?
so a truck and other heavy duty vehicle are rely more on torque than a horsepower?
+ilham Defra yes, exactly
+ilham Defra both are equally important, but torque is what moves a heavy truck forward. trucks don't need to go fast. they just need to move forward. they also need to be super reliable. a million mile semi-truck engine over just a few years doesn't even blink an eye. the way to accomplish that is to use a low revving engine. semi truck engines have a redline of like 2500rpm and can cruise at 1200rpm once they are at freeway speeds. semi-trucks are on fixed determinable schedules so they have no reason to go "fast" , it is a matter of economizing. If you wanted to, you could throw a high revving diesel into a semi-truck and it would go very fast but would be economically unfeasible other than as a show car.
Great information!
More videos like this please!
How would acceleration from a rolling start compare between two cars with equal peak horsepower but different torque?
You use a Torque converter (AKA the transmission) to change the torque to suit your needs. Torque is irrelevant...
thats not what hes asking and besides not every car uses a torque converter. Torque is not irrelevant at all.
If you have a fast car(= no torque converter) power is good but torque is very important aswell.
Theres too much 1k hp supras out there with big turbos who cant get going unless youre at 7k rpm, and thats because they develop shit torque and power in the lower rpms
REASAND5 All cars have torque converters...what you mean is a hydraulic clutch (Which is a type of torque converter).
And most 1Khp supras get going at 4-5krpm...what is the problem? That they leave you in the dust?
The Esseboy there are no torque converters in cars with manual gearboxes, dual clutch gearboxes, cvts and automated manuals.
the only cars with torque converters are shit american automatics.
1k hp supras are stupid except for drag racing. They lack everything except for the top end because of the big turbo. So drivability is total shit
REASAND5 Torque converter, an object that increases or decreases torque. (In other words a transmission)
Because they use a Turbo setup they set the wastegate lower for street use and advance the timing a bit, gives you less HP but beter drivability.
i love these kinda of stuff
Where can i sign up for Cooley College
good ,informative video .
What does all of that supercharged torque do to the inside of an engine and other drive train parts?
Power tells you have fast you can twist something AND how hard you can twist it, that's why it's the star.
No, power is the figure based on how many times you can use the twisting force per minute. If you have 300lbs of torque at 3200rpm, you have 182 power. If you have that same 300lbs at 4200rpm, you have 240 power. If you have 300lbs at 5200rpm, you have 297 power..... See, power is ONLY a product of how many times you can USE the twisting force per minute! Power itself isn't the force. It is purely a representing figure of how many times you can use how much torque per minute. People don't know this, and that's why it sells. They hear "power" without understanding what it actually means. Power is nothing but a word. That's why torque is ACTUALLY the star, but is ignored, while power is the Kanye West of the two. He's really nothing at all, but advertised everywhere anyways, so people know him. If you take torque away, you take power away. Simple as that. Torque makes your power. Torque is the star.
If you have 200 hp, you can turn at 4,000 rpm and have 263 lb-ft of torque, or you can turn at 100 rpm at have 10,505 lb-ft of torque, or you can turn at 1 rpm and have over one million lb-ft of torque. Torque is irrelevant because you can always change it with gearing, but power determines how much torque you can produce at a given rpm, so the more power you can produce, the faster you can apply a certain amount of torque. This is why the power to weight ratio of a car matters, not the torque to weight ratio. Power is the star, period.
On the same numbers, let's use the 300lbs at 5200 rpm making 297 horse. Let's take the torque down to 250. Now you only have 247 horsepower... 50 less power because you took away 50lbs at 5200rpm. How about at 4200? That 240 horse becomes 200 horse... 40 horse down because you lost 50lbs at 4200 rpm... See, your power is just a representing number. That's it. Power is not how fast you can use power, nor is it the twisting force. Power is how many times you can use a given torque figure per minute. That's it. Horsepower=torque*rpm/5252. If you have the horsepower number, then Torque=horspower*5252/rpm.... Factory specs on a 90s Dodge Ram 318ci V8 is 220horse at 4400rpm, 300lbs at 3200rpm. So torque at peak horse is 220*5252/4400= 262.6lbs of torque at 4400rpm. Horsepower at peak torque is 300*3200/5252= 182.7 horsepower at 3200rpm. Obviously the torque is dropping fast. That's why peak power for that motor is reached at only 4400 rpm and is such a low power figure.
That's all irrelevant, that's just how power is rated.
+idontcare80 you're so VERY wrong with that. First off, 200 horsepower at 4000 rpm is 152.3 lbs of torque... Well, actually, it's 152.3lbs of torque at 4000rpm is 200 horsepower.
Secondly, 10,505 torque at 100 rpm is 200 horse also... 1,000,000 torque at 1rpm is 190 horsepower... The point is, torque is giving you that power number. If you had that 10,505 torque at 100rpm, just imagine how much MORE power you could have by having that torque at 2000rpm! That's 4000.38 horsepower!!! All because you changed what RPM your TORQUE number is at! Torque can not be simply changed thru gearing. You mean to tell me that thru gearing a 300lb of torque motor could be geared to make 600lbs of torque? Lol. Yeah, through hundreds of gears. It's possible, but it's not feasible. That's why it's never done. The only reasonable gearing change you can do is to prevent losses at the sacrifice of increasing RPM. That's why you gain acceleration but lose top speed capability with a gear change.
Yes, I understand better now. Thank you man.
one thing u didnt say what is good and whats not in the dyno test, is it good to have torque at the start middle or end?
Give me a torquey turbodiesel engine any day over a petrol because the torque is what really counts for accelerating in everyday driving. Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear drove an Audi A8 4.0 Tdi for 800 miles on one 20 gallon tank of diesel, that car produces 'only' 275hp at 3750rpm, but it produces 650Nm of torque between 1800 and 2500rpm and does 0-100km/h in 6.7 seconds.
Petrol cars just can't give that perfect combination of power and incredible fuel range.
Notice how the hp and torque clash at 5200 every time :s engineering explained explains it
But we don't normally drive around at 4-6k RPM (at least us normal folk with our normal cars); how does changing the gears affect torque/HP? Will that graph look pretty much the same, with the difference being that the X-axis would be the gear number? Or is that graph showing the torque and HP for all gears?
Cooley you're the fucking man dude. That was a fucking 5 star video.
The conversation was over when i responded "K bro", i'm over the topic bro
Great, thanks for this video
To explain easy:
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you move that wall :-)
No. I'll be posting a video on why. Horsepower wins. Period. The hard part is the ability to keep making it.
If Brian Cooley was a teacher, it would be drinking a red bull while learning.
Really helpful info
Wow I actually understood most of this!
torque is way more important for early exeleration (0- about 90) beyond then horspower disigdes exel and a bit of limits, but limits is mostly geers
Where can I find the truth about performance? Any reliable references?
Horsepower: 300 @ 5800 RPM Torque: 300 @ 1200 RPM vs Horsepower: 330 @ 7000 RPM Torque: 270 @ 5200 RPM typically which car would win in a race?
330 horsepower @ 7000 RPM, 270 Torque @ 5200 RPM, because you need high horsepower to reach high topspeed
Hey was that Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear in the orange Maclaren?
Horsepower is a measurement of torque, that was done by James Watt the man who invented the steam engine to help promote his new invention in the 1700's back when people used horses to work and get around... he came up with this equation (HP = Torque x RPM ÷ 5252) by tying a rope to a horse, passing that rope in a pulley and making the horse lift a load, then he measure the rate at witch the horse could lift the weight and turn the pulley and that's it... all this does is convert actual torque into another measuring unit that to this day is a compared to the work capability's of an animal... the supposed sweet crossover from T to HP is always going to be 5252RPM because of the measurement... we made it that way. I guess my point is horsepower is something we made up to compare torque to the pulling power of a horse or horses, in this case one particular horse who lived in the 1700's/// its like saying miles and kilometers are 2 different measurements... no they measure the same thing, but described it in a different way. kilometers is the more accurate measurement by the way.
No, you could change the gearing of a low torque, high rpm engine with the same horsepower and pull just as much weight, just as effectively. It's about wheel torque, not flywheel torque, something this video neglected to point out (gearing 'tranforms' engine power, trading torque and rpm). For hauling, you would choose the high torque engine (e.g. low rpm turbo-diesel) for longevity and efficiency reasons, but that's another matter.
So could torque also be seen as a boost of energy assisting horsepower (or like an afterburner on a jetfighter) that has an absolute optimum, then powers down gradually?
Brian Cooley needs to take a physics class. HorsePOWER isn't a measure of work, its POWER.
Has a cyclist more torque in low RPM? As much RPM can you move the legs, do you have more power?
Thanks :)
Thanks Brian!!!!!!!!!!
horsepower is a derivative of torque and how fast the engine spins. The F1 might have low torque because of small displacement but they rev to 18000 rpms, thus the 750 hp
Kilowatts and Newton meters😊
So, with alot of torque you accelerate faster. But with horsepower you reach a higher topspeed?
GREAT JOB! Thx
i was gonna say that this video had the best explanation to simplify what both mean...until i read the comments saying hes defining horsepower wrong. Now my brain is like mush. haha
You are right, but ANY car can be fast in organized racing. Not in regular cars though. Unless you spend huge amounts of money to have a little honda compete with other stock or lightly modded cars.
Only thing he forgot was WHP (wheel horse power) vs what's being made at the crank (the advertised number).
and what about diesel engines? or electric motors? how do they compare to gasoline engines? it surprises me that you have not mentioned it...
well it really depends on the vehicle. If it's a heavy vehicle torque is more important and HP is better for lighter vehicles
should mention the big advantage of diesels and their low RPM but high trq numbers
"Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races", you can't have horsepower without torque.
Thank you !!
Cooley should have his own channel
What about electric motors, Brian? Excluding the Model S and Roadster. Most EVs have twice the torque than the horsepower it has at the very beginning of the RPM range.
Think of two bodybuilders, both have 400 Torque for descriptive purposes. One bodybuilder has 200 horsepower and the other 400 hp. Both can bench 400 lbs 10 times. The 200 hp bodybuilder can do it in 20 seconds, but the 400 hp bodybuilder can do it in 10 seconds. The 400 hp bodybuilder can move the weight faster. Same way with hp and torque on a vehicle, torque is how much force is being pushed, and horsepower is how fast you can push it.
+Ironwind1972 interesting analogy...what about if the 400hp body builder had 200 Torque? how would the analogy change? the 200 Torque guy could push 200 lbs in far less time than the 400 Torque but he could not push the 400 lbs at all? sound about right?
+icarrydateam Spot on man. Take modern day crotch rockets, they have large hp numbers, but not near the torque. They rev high and fast, and move a smaller amount of weight quickly . Now put the same motor in a car, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Ironwind1972 yes i think that makes sense..similarly for SUVs. big heavy cars with tons of torque but usually lower hp than torque. throwing one of those engines into a sports car isn't going to make it faster with the same principle as the crotch rockets. thanks mate! i think this is an awesome analogy. you rock!
Brian Cooley, do you know who Dom Famularo (drummer) is, because you look like him and talk like him.
Thumbs up if you want CNET ON CARS every day !!!
in this video it is described like torque and HP are two seperate things, not having to do anything with eachother. in reality it is a different story. hp composes of torque and rpm. torque alone is not taking you anywhere. its like saying a bodybuilder can run faster than anyone else because he is stronger.
Its well difficult to understand! So horse power is in time, but tork is like pushing a wrench. It's too confusing I cant get it!
In shirt torque is what pushes u and horsepower is what keeps u go.
You haven't been on youtube very long, have you?
You said the HP = Torque x RPM
Could you explain more?
+ehsan83
HP's formula is: (TORQUE x RPM) / 5252. You can google the formula if you want to know how the formula was derived.
+Freedom Thnx
HP also is the rate of change of KE. so if you want to accelerate in 1 second from 60mph 70mph, and you start at 1M Joules, and at 70mph the Joules is 1.5M... that would be 670hp. why, because there are 746joules in a HP-second. (1 watt-second = a Joule) the difference of the two speeds was : 500,000 J 500K/746 = 670hp
did you consider weight in your calculation?
So a car with 250ibs Torque & 275 Hp vs a car with 250ibs torque & 300 Hp-which is more powerful or faster?
(if they are the same weight ect)
What is my hp no and my tq no are the same
because diesels can not rev higher than ~5000 rpms. Horsepower is directly related to torque and engine revs. Horsepower is calculated from torque x rpms /5252 = break horsepower
Torque of a electric motor is constant from 0 rpm to max rpm, Just imagine one horizontal straight line (torque), and one straight line with an angle (hp)
i have a doubt in 1 thing ... should a vehicle have high hp or high torque? how does it affect accelration ? please do explain
HP is a measure of work, torque is a measure of force, they measure different things. In that regard what he said was not correct.
Here is the formula for HP, HP=(RPM x Torque) / 5252, for me at least seeing the formula was the first step in understanding it.
Acceleration is all about torque and how long you can maintain that level of force through the rev range.
An engine like the Cummins diesel produces a massive amount of torque 440lbs but has fairly low hp ~215, the power band is from 1600-2500 rpm. Where as a 4.4 BMW V8 is around 340lbs of torque and ~440hp. The Diesel is the more powerful engine, but it's narrow power band is going to limit acceleration effective duration. That would be the point which you would shift to get back to the usable range. The BMW engines power band is from 4000-8000 it's not as powerful but the power it does deliver is over a long range requiring fewer shifts.
Here a real world example that baffles many on the surface. My car make 450 hp and 350lbs of torque, dropping a V8 with 450 hp and 450lbs of torque doesn't make it any faster 0-60 in fact it's slower. The reason being is because of limited traction and number of shifts required. The engine in my car is right at the limits of what the tires can put down, more torque is of no use at this point.
Now stretch it out to the 1/4 mile, both cars run nearly the same time with difference being in trap speed. Once the tires have enough grip, the V8 is able to make up the lost ground due to it's greater torque and by this point the number of shifts are equal. That is really how the scenario played out too.
I'll give you the simple answer, the vehicle with the higher hp will always out-accelerate the vehicle with lower hp, given they are equally heavy, and have equal drag.
total_gamer1989 This is totally correct. You must have passed physics lol.
I am a bit slow with physics. But what will I need to accelerate on a uphill drive, more torque or more horsepower? Assuming I have a fully loaded car.
Acceleration is all about torque, in your example HP is what keeps you moving.
GlassTopRX7 Correction. Acceleration is all about torque. But acceleration combined with angular speed is what's needed to accelerate something as massive as a car. Your 300 ft-lb with a torque wrench won't move a car hardly at all, because you can't generate 300 ft-lb with any speed.
More torque will help, but you need horsepower to gain speed. If you're a big semi truck, you probably don't care about speed, so you just need tons of torque and average HP to get moving. If you're in a hurry, you need big HP to go along with the big torque.
hp. more hp means you will have more tq at the wheel at any given speed or gear. aiming for more tq without increasing hp is completely worthless.