SPES 'Cadet' HEMA Jacket Review - First Impressions
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- My first impressions review of the Spes 'Cadet' 800 Newton HEMA jacket
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Just as a reminder to everyone, a fabrics Newton rating is not a measure of its padding, but its ability to resist... penetration.
A Canadian button is a mil spec button that’s not sawn on. It’s rather attached to a tape that runs trough the slots on the button, which makes it very secure.
Came here to say this. Also know as ITW Bar buttons or slotted buttons iirc..
But why is it called Canadian though? It really should be called a British button since I've seen that style of button on a lot of British (& Commonwealth) military clothing, despite it being a potential snag hazard.
@@Riceball01 I'd assume because they're on almost every Canadian military uniform i can see for most of their country's existence.
Slotted button is more of a universal term.
All:
They are called "Canadian Buttons" because Canada invented them. They first appeared on Canadian Army winter parkas in the late 1950's or early 1960's. They next appeared on Canadian combat uniforms when these came into use in the 1960's, replacing the British Army style Battle Dress. These buttons have been part of every pattern of Canadian Army combat clothing right up to the present day CADPAT (Canadian Disruptive Pattern). The British Army started using these buttons on CS95 combat clothing and have continued with them right up the modern day No. 8 Combat Dress in MTP (Multi-Terrain Pattern) camouflage.
Regards,
D.A. Stolovitch, CD
Captain
2 Military Police Regiment / Canadian Forces Military Police (Retired)
P.S. I am a Brit who lives in the Great White North, Canada, since 1973.
Came down to the comments to learn what a Canadian button. Now I know, thx
I have this jacket. It's brilliantly comfortable and stands up to practice against my daughter (who doesn't believe in pulling strikes). I can always add pads if I need to
I’d wear that to a party. Amazing stuff.
“They don’t know my jacket is rated for 800N.”
Probably a dead meme at this point, but I couldn’t help it.
I do agree that it’s dapper jacket, though. Really good design.
@@Boggsy. "They won't laugh when I get stabbed and the knife breaks!"
Man it would be great if you show the whole collection form spes and some tips on "how to pick", because there are so many models, one better than the other - but how to pick????
Hi Matt the Canadian buttons or Canadian taped buttons are attached via the webbing going through two slots as apposed to sewed on at four points like a traditional button. It makes them less likely to shatter with impact almost impossible to rip off and if they have given you a quick attach buttons they can be temporarily repaired with no sewing. They are starting to become more widely used on hight end millatry outdoor clothing. I don't know why the are called Canadian though perhaps the Canadian millatry developed them.
I would honestly wear this or the officers variant of this Jacket as a daily jacket
One must never appear tubular when fencing.
IIRC the Canadian military was the first to use this specific style of button on some of their outerwear, so the buttons came to be associated with them.
I was thinking this might be good for commuting in London but then he said it has no protection for the back : (
The puncture resistance rating isn't applicable to really sharp edged weapons, a knife thrust will still penetrate if the blade point is narrow enough to push apart the fibres and slide between. The fibres will then be cut by the sharp edges of a blade, allowing the knife to penetrate further. That is how knives and arrows defeat standard Kevlar 'bulletproof' body armour. You need several layers of really tightly woven Kevlar to stop knife thrusts (and several layers of a standard weave to stop bullets). This type of jacket won't protect you from a knife attack.
"it is modular". Us army wants to know your supplier
Does anyone make regular clothing like this? The tasteful, classy, military kind of look sorely needs a comback.
I've always liked the Russian shirts that button up the side, and up the shoulder to the neck.
Most likely found in some gothic store. Look for steampunk / military styles.
And then there is always etsy.
SPES are always quite open to ideas. ;-) They started making hoodies, after all.
Reference the "Canadian Buttons" they look like the pattern used on Canadian combat uniforms (by the colour for the older olive drab uniforms). As you noted they slide along the straps so you can cinch them up a little bit. I haven't seen them used on any other clothing here in Canada.
A lot of the British military kit used to have something very similar
The buttons are striking. I think they look SO cool, but I'd be worried the buttons would get shattered in sparring.
Thanks for the review! I really enjoy yours
They're some sort of hard rubber. My daughter caught one with her sabre and it just shrugged it off
It would be interesting to make a video comparing this to a historical arming jack.
I've never heard of Canadian buttons, and I'm Canadian.
Same here
I have this jacket. Needs some extra protection for the forearms, but that's what many jackets actually need. Comfortable, light, elegant, so far it has protected me from blows.
I find that with SPES forearm protectors it's fine. For rapier and light sabre, long gauntlets are enough
Can we get a separate playlist for your hema protective kit reviews? I'm currently digging to find new kit as my old stuff isn't up to scratch.
It would be great to have a jacket that closed in the back like a scuba diving wetsuit. And like a wetsuit, a cord would be tied to the zipper so that you easily can open and close it without help. You also would need the neck protection in front to be symmetrical and a bit wider.
Matt, do you think that would work?
I was thinking of that, but wasn't sure how hard it is to zip up by yourself though. I was also thinking that maybe a system like a modern plate carrier might work. It would open from the sides with velcro on both the front and back of the side pieces with a velcroed front flap that goes over the sides, basically, sandwiching the sides flaps. It would be pretty quick and easy to put on and take off, just slip it over your head and then secure the side flaps and you're done.
There have been a few fencing jackets over the years that zipped up the back, and while a good safety measure, everyone I know who used one found it a pain in the butt to get on and off.
Gajardoni had a modular jacket like that. There is a Bloss jacket with a back zip too. Its not very much a problem to take on and off if you attach long enough cord to the zip.
PBT makes a range of back-zip jackets. I can't get it done up without assistance
@@scholagladiatoria That is why I suggested a cord or leather thong tied to the zipper. It works great on a diving wetsuit. You just grab the end and pull to close the zipper.
My concerns are that these buttons might cause thrusts to snag on them.
I see the improvement in the terms of pockets. There is a new pocket for the upper arm. Front pocket now goes up to the shoulder. In comparison in ap light it goes only little above the breast. That was its main downside, as well as no dedicated pocket for the upper arm.
So now this jacket is better than ap light in every way. I see no reason to pick ap light over cadet.
Mr solar please could you do more of these type of reviews? I would really like to start HEMA and know nothing about the equipment really.
Also do you know any clubs in Bristol? Have been looking online and couldn't really fine anything about clubs down here 🤔.
Love your work
Check out the AHF - Academy of Historical Fencing. They also have a RUclips channel!
@@scholagladiatoria thanks will do, sorry about the spelling lols.
I wonder if I could put kevlar in one of those jackets. That looks much more fashionable than a standard kevlar vest.
No reason why you couldn't, but why you would need to?
@@brendandor Just in case I wanted to visit Detroit or Chicago.
Looks great for when you need to stroll certain parts of London.
+scholagladiatoria *The same vulnerability of torso with the buckler also applies to the targe when using the CADET jacket.* SPES® has part protectors available for styles of armor encountered on international battlefields; a universal-weapon ensemble suitable for spear, glaive, halberd and sword might consist of Level 2 plastron and skirt with PRO shoulder and upper arm plates and Shell greaves, with helmet and gloves selected for the user's weapon.
I bought this jacket when it was first released and have been using it with my club while sparring in the park. It has been fantastic so far with everything up to and including longsword. I have thought about forming a little kydex or something to add to the foam, but it doesn't seem like a necessity... yet.
How breathable is the Spes Cadet compared to the AP Light? I only have the AP Light so I can't compare the two jackets.
@@heirihunziker I'm in Arizona, we spar outside, and it is getting hot outside. I still prefer the Cadet as far as heat retention and mobility is concerned, but it still isn't as good for mitigating impact with Longsword. Controlled sparring should be fine, but I wouldn't wear it in a longsword tournament! Same would go for some of the heavier steel sabres.
@@bierbrauer232 Thanks for the feedback, sounds like the Cadet might not be sufficient for my purposes. I've done a couple longsword tournaments in the AP Light 350N and with extra protections it's alright, but since the Cadet is listed as having an even lighter weight I probably shouldn't try to go even lighter. Then again, I overheat in any HEMA jacket even in the middle of winter outside, hence my curiosity about the Cadet jacket.
I'm on the verge of buying a scholar jacket. Which one is thicker? Our salle does Capo Ferro. And maybe Hutton Sabre in future.
Some men are barrel chested, I'm barrel bellied. Cheers
This jacket actually looks pretty oriental. I like it
Back zipper is cool in theory. Not always super easy to zip on and off. Mine in my gajardoni challenge broke several times.
I love my officer jacket though.
Would love it to have the option of doubble zippers.. instead of the buttons. thanks for the reviev.
Spine guard and kidney guards should be included, imo they dont need to be padded with foam, just a plastic plate to stop blade on spine directly
The most I'm disappointed in is that they don't offer the zipper on the other side for lefty fencers of that type. Or at least I didn't see it as an option.
In olympic fencing you get front zips that are similar to that. By regulation you have to have the zipper come up on the opposite side of your sword arm. So that jacket there would be consider a right handed jacket and fencing left handed would be consider illegal because the point can get caught in the zipper and possibly penetrate the jacket.
Now you could get a back zip which is ambidextrous and like Matt said you usually don't get hit in the back too often. The problem with them is that they're hard to get on and off especially if you don't have very good shoulder flexibility. Also if with a front zip if you wanted to cool off between bouts you can just unzip it a bit to let some air in. A back zip you pretty much have to take the whole thing off.
That's my personal opinion from what I see. I do like the look of them and the fact you can get them colored is really cool. I just wish there was a left handed front zip offered.
I'd love it in dark green.
Great suff Matt, nice jacket , I'd love to practice hema , I've done ju jutsu and karate , but this is fascinating stuff. Love watching your videos. Is there any hema on Ireland?
That jacket has its advantages but I will keep using my brigandine for now.
Well, unlike this jacket, a brigandine will stop an actual knife thrust. Should you be attacked by an assailant with a knife, this fencing jacket may well illicit comments about being stylish and well made... as the ambulance crew carry your corpse to the morgue. 😉
How does this compare to the 800N Officer and AP Light jackets?
My first thought is are they available in popular Football Club Colours? Technology is a great thing. You can buy a suit jacket that will stop most pistol rounds and only add less than a kilo to your look. We also know its use in the Forces. While full Star Wars, carbon fiber armour is interesting, the concussive power of hand or explosive weapons still exists and exploited.
Just thinking about the issue with the flap maybe a pinny/cover similar to that worn by cavaliers, that fitted over the head but fastened under the arms may help prevent such accidents
Maybe they should add a second flap that goes over the buttons and velcros on or something.
What are Canadian buttons? Well, it depends on the context.
Canadian buttons should be buttons that can be fastened and unfastened while wearing thick mittens. (I doubt that's the real meaning though.)
No protection on the back may be a killer for me on this one. I don’t get hit in the back often but it has happened and well, I don’t want to gamble my ribs on ‘unlikely’. Seems very good for lighter than longsword, though.
Why have we stopped doing back closing jackets
800N rating doesn't say much about actual protection though, does it? It just says how resistant it is to being punctured by a broken blade, which is something that (hopefully) happens very rarely, but nothing about blunt force absorption, which is the kind of protection we mostly need.
Nice shirt.
Love your channel......
Wonderful looking jacket! I wonder if theres a womens version.... or a left handed one!
What about wearing things like a Brigandine or a Gambeson?
(Noob question, I don't do HEMA)
Gambeson is basically a standard HEMA jacket. If plastic plates under the fabric layer would be counted as a brigandine, than yes.
Brigandine is heavy, expensive, hard to maintain. HEMA jackets are basically modern gambesons but better with thrusts.
@@Overdrawn_ Ah that makes sense
I have seen brigandine reviews out there. They look like D&D studded leather. Personally, I love the look. It's just doesn't give that much of an advantage compared to a Gambeson or fencing jacket with friendly sparing and a feder or blunt sword.
If someone was trying to hurt or kill me with a real knife or an actual sharp sword, I would definitely buy a brigandine, if not a more modern type of armor (i.e. Kevlar).
@scholagladiatoria: Which one would you choose ? This or officer?
Speaking of 800N jackets, have you had a chance to compare the Officer Level 2 jacket to the regular version?
Interesting .... strokes point of chin in a thoughtful manner
;-)
Ceramic trauma plates would be a bad idea, their intent is to shatter on the first impact to dissipate energy. AR500 steel plates would be good.
@scholagladiatoria what do you think heavier motorcycle jackets with CE2 pads? Something like an Icon Raiden?
with regards to which way the front flat opens. why not copy actual armour, and put the opening down the side, under the arm and over the shoulder.
I wish they made them in fat man size so I can buy one.
I'm no lightweight and their standard XL has room to spare. They go larger, or custom
I am no HEMA practitioner, nor have I ever tried on historical armour, so please forgive my amateur perspective, but that jacket feels like a modern day brigandine, with inserted plates and what not. Am I entirely wrong in making in this comparison?
A lot of HEMA equipment combines ideas from modern and historical equipment. The SPES AP for example is basically a gambeson with modern materials and flavor
I see many parallels with Ice Hockey Goalie protection, which leads me to a good point. Is there something to be said about other industries to bring into HEMA or historic weapons as a whole? For instance, who is using D3o foams in HEMA equipment, does anybody use milspec Cordura in scabbards and so on.
The right arm goes in the right sleeve thus; and the left arm goes in the left sleeve this. Now, note pockets, poppers and zipper.
Great looking quality piece of kit. But not great for a left hander. Do they offer a left handed version that reverses the front flap?
Yes they do. No additional cost.
800 newtons is quite a bit. Is that the amount of force the jacket can protect you from? 800 newtons is almost 180 lbs of force.
my jackets are zip up the back may be they can do something like that
I read SPACE Cadet HEMA Jacket...
Have you ever handled spes's historical gambesons? If so what did you think?
Damn, what's the sword he pulled out in 10:39? It's gorgeous
What is "Newton Level" as I cannot find it?
And what does it mean/what are the difference in
levels/examples of clothing Newton level and
what weapons affect each newton level?
Newton rating is the amount of force in newtons it takes to pierce the jacket. It is for things like if a metal sword breaks, it can form a very very sharp point and possibly run you through. The newton rating is for that. It’s not a measure of impact protection. Like Matt said, 800n is pretty much the highest you’ll need, at least atm. My local club says 500n for steel longsword at least but recommends 800n just in case.
@@Thatonedude227 thanks for your info
Could you wear a cuirass on top of the jacket ?
👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍
Matt confirmed little in the middle but got much (upper) back
hmmm, I was thinking that about the universal jacket,,, maybe a two part system, with a jacket, and a "breastplate" vest.
Hey Matt I just wanted to ask. Where you got your rapier from?
You would think that the Napoleonic Wars were the glory days for the use of sabres and swords, especially for the cavalry.
So why the uniforms were made in a way that these weapons could catch on so many places on the uniform ?
ruclips.net/video/sR4jLoT_lxY/видео.html
Cavalry of the Napoleonic Era: Cuirassiers, Dragoons, Hussars, and Lancers
first
...Emperor Mong?
Surprisingly, the visual design looks like a Chinese style
Agreed. I was going to comment on that.
This Jacked is extreme thin, nothing for full contact.
"Spes cadet" ahhh noooo...
Zip up the back like a wetsuit.
Buttons??? Targets or catches I would think. Dumbest fashion choice for swordplay. I really would start using them as targets just because they are so dumb to put on a fencing jacket.