Well I am not so sure about the Theology part. It certainly isn't as traditionally catholic as LOTR, but it seems to be well thought out. Check out the Hogwarts Professor, if you are interested.
@@corvinrick3644 “The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work,” J.R.R. Tolkien himself admitted. I have grown up with JRR Tolkien and am well familiar with the theological components to his fictions. However, I have not immersed myself in the same way with Harry Potter, perhaps because of my personal prejudice against it. I will visit the site you suggest. On a preliminary review of what J.K. Rowlings wrote about her work, I find it to be not nearly as deeply Christian as that of J.R.R Tolkiens approach to The Lord of the Rings. J.K. Rowlings "Christianity" in Harry Potter seams to be little more than window dressing if anything. I am not convinced she is as deeply thought out and constructed as what we have in J.R.R. Tolkien. I would label her work "Christian influenced" but not particularly dealing with deep Christian principles.
@@corvinrick3644 But then you realize Harry’s whole story only happened because he was a horcrux, which wasn’t the original story. And what was the only reason the horcrux was created in the first place? Gonna post the rest in the main comments section so more people will see it haha
The moment these words were spoken, I was pulled right in. "The world is changed: I feel it in the water; I feel it in the earth; I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." I'm sorry, but there's just no comparison!
Honestly not even joking i think some of Tolkien’s theology and the way he explains it is among some of the best i ever read. I would kill for him explaining the trinity
Unsolicited book recommendations: Peter Kreeft's "The Philosophy of Tolkien" and a brand new book by some guy named Austin Freeman called "Tolkien Dogmatics" (I haven't finished the ending yet but it has a good part on the Trinity that I already passed)
Men of the West is a wonderful Lord of the Rings channel as well. Lays out the lore and history of Tolkien and Middle Earth in such a straight forward and unbiased way. Really is great.
Nerd of the Rings (while having some solid content) has become a bit of a sellout following the release of the Rings of Power show. Would recommend ‘Men of the West’ or the ‘One Ring’ as good LOTR channels.
I think that analogy of how Tolkien's works enrich your view of life, so too does a good a philosopher or Theologian. Its why Scott Hahn is such a beautiful theologian, same with Thomas Aquinas and most Christian Philosophers.
As someone who enjoys both, I agree. Lord of the Rings is better. Also throwing this out there: I think Harry Potter has been getting the Star Wars treatment since the books and movies ended. By that I mean: the author screws with the lore in later works; sells the franchise to a big corporation making things worse and political; and the original author's unrelated works are forgotten and people don't care. There's more, but this is enough.
@@rafiki1017 Fair point. I will give you that. I never watched and don't plan to, at this time, watch RofP. If I want to counter, I can say Tolkien is not alive and the one messing with his own lore. In Rowling's case, she began contradicting her lore with The Cursed Child.
@@supernerd8067 Oh yeah I totally agree with that. I’m not a fan of the cursed child or the fantastic beast movies. I just thought you meant they were ruining a great story, but I see what you mean.
Tolkien was one of the great writers of gorgeous prose.Tolkien far exceeds Rowling artistically,spiritually,morally.There really is no comparison. Robin Hobb exceeds Rowling in every way but Robin can not hold a flickering candle to Tolkien.I read the Potter books but struggled with the poor writing
The bar is too high to argue anything against Tolkien in the high fantasy genre. Harry Potter is a creation in the modern world of consumerism so no doubt banked more money for the creators but the longetitivty and influence of Lotr is something no other fantasy book will come close to surpassing anytime soon. Movie wise the Lotr trilogy was one of the greatest projects ever put to screen and we were lucky to have got to see that at release for those who experienced it. Has there been a movie since as universally praised? I can't think of any. It was a milestone in cinema those movies.
@@TheJmlew11 I haven't seen it. _Some of_ the criticisms seem less than usually valid to me ... from what they imply about how the critic sees story-telling or Tolkien. Adding characters means "made up" ... as in Glorfindel _isn't?_
@@hglundahl I’m trying to piece together what you’re saying. Are you referring to Nerd’s criticisms, general criticisms of the show, or something else?
I’m more of a Warhammer kinda guy, but LOTR is obviously a better piece of art than Harry Potter. Like, this isn’t even really a debate y’all. We all know the truth. Doesn’t mean HP is bad, but it’s just not the same.
Harry Potter is deliberately a children's book, so there's that too... A weakness in HP that hasn't been mentioned is that apart from a few side characters and Hagrid and his pets the stakes are actually rather limited for the characters with whom we spend so much time. Harry is the subject of action more than an actor in his own right. Each episode is centered around one of the acolytes of Voldy trying to kill/use Harry, who survives because other people are helping him and because evil is kinda stupid. Everyone else is in orbit around that action, and though they do some growing up, they don't really go anywhere. Tolkien's characters have arcs that are much more dependent on their own actions.
"Apart from a few side characters the stakes are actually rather limited." ARE YOU KIDDING??? Dobby, Fred, Moody, Snape, Dumbledore, Remus, Tonks, Colin Creevy, Hedwig, Sirius, Cedric.... I can go on. This is just patently wrong.
I think it's obvious that when comparing LOTR and Harry Potter, LOTR is going to win every time. Harry Potter was written for a very different audience (12 year old boys). A better question is whether LOTR is better than Wheel of Time...
Saying Harry Potter was written for 12-year-old boys is the most out-of-touch part of this argument. I think it's belittled because it's written in a style that actually appeals more to girls (its main audience) i.e. it's much more sympathetic. And yes, I do believe it's just as good as LOTR in its own way. (The Prisoner of Azkaban has a quintuple plot twist for God's sake. Rowling's 14 drafts of single chapters really shows). Harry Potter is beloved and yet the most staggeringly taken for granted series in history.
@@lunalee3021 Great points. I apologize if I seemed to imply that Harry Potter isn't good. It certainly is. I love the story, the intricacy of Rowling's plotting, and certainly the lengths she was willing to go to to make her story a modern masterpiece. We're kind of in a lose-lose situation comparing two phenomenal things. In this case, saying that one is better than the other ought not to be a slight on the other, but ought to highlight the greatness of both. If LOTR is only good when compared to a crappy novel, then how good is it really? But if LOTR is considered a great piece of literature when compared to another great piece of literature, then that is a testament to the greatness of both. As far as 12-year old boys being the target audience for Harry Potter, I learned that from someone (David Farland) who helped market the series when it first came out. That's why I said a more fair comparison would be LOTR and WOT. Thinking as a marketer, Wheel of Time's target audience seems to be more in line with LOTR's target audience.
Interesting subject. Popularity is rarely an index to excellence but does have some bearing of course.Is Potter really 'better' than,for instance, Joyce's magnificent Ulysses or Proust's masterpiece just because it is way more popular?In my opinion Potter is not even in the race if comparing to such.LOTRs is,in my opinion, superb and hugely popular but in my experience such a thing is as rare as dragon's teeth.Bob Dylan is pretty popular and a great artist in my personal opinion so such things can and do happen but all against the run of the entropic cosmic dice
Shouldn't be much of a question for a catholic, as LOTR was written by declared and practising Christian, while HP contains some real occultism/satanism stuff.
@@Commandosoap777 it’s not that it is sinful. There are occult things in it (by Rowlings own admission, you can find an interview she did early on where she talks about researching and trying to use actual spells (which she admits she doesn’t think are real)) that Catholics and other Christians should not be messing with. Just like we are not to mess with Oujia boards or tarot cards.
No. No. No. No. 20 years after Harry Potter got dragged through the mud, J. K. Rowling being slandered as a witch, and her readers as "dumb" or "possessed" Catholics are finally admitting Harry Potter is "okay enough to read." No. This is just more snobbery. Harry Potter is GREAT literature. It has quintuple plot twists and up to 14 drafts per chapter. Rowling said she "sweated blood" over her red herrings. The quality of world-building is almost unseen. Readers absolutely come away from it seeing the world differently; it practically affected every person in my whole generation this way. The Chamber of Secrets is one of the most Catholic books I've ever read (intentional or not). Rowling is a rare author with integrity who practices what she preaches (standing up for what she believes is right). This is why the themes had a rare type of power that is otherwise unseen in children's contemporary fantasy (speaking of this genre how much of it have you even read?). Harry Potter deserves way more than "okay enough to read."
Harry wasn’t supposed to be a horcrux, but Rowling changed the story. The only reason all seven books happen is BECAUSE Harry was a horcrux. But what was the only reason the horcrux happened? Because Lily sacrificed herself. The Church teaches that God brings a greater good out of evil. That is represented in Tolkien’s works like The Lord of the Rings. Jesus tells us the greatest love is sacrificial love. In Harry Potter, sacrificial love creates the most evil object ever known in that world. It’s the opposite. Boom. Mythology of Harry Potter debunked in less than 30 seconds. It’s why I can’t really buy in to that mythology anymore. That and the numerous plot holes that exist in the books and movies.
The mental hoops people go through to justify their prejudice against Harry Potter shows some real insanity and pride at work, I tell you. Never ceases to amaze me.
@@lunalee3021 I am not prejudiced against Harry Potter. I am a fan of the story and grew up with the books haha. I defend people when other Catholics say they shouldn’t read them or watch the movies. And I still read and watch them(and am excited for the future of Potter because I didn’t like the Fantastic Beasts movies). I am simply pointing out the plot holes and what is, in my opinion, a mythological inconsistency and the best argument for it not being as good as The Lord of the Rings, whether that argument is just as a story in general or for which is better for leading us toward the Truth. Though I will admit I don’t really understand your first comment. I still stand by it being a plot hole and mythologically incoherent. God bless
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yes
Longest answer:
Y
E
S
I love and grew up with both. They were literally the first books I read myself. But Tolkien's lore is a lot deeper than Rowlings.
Is that even a serious question? I love the theology embedded through out Lord of the Rings, which Harry Potter lacks...
Lord of the rings also has a well thought out plot and lovable characters which harry porter also doesn’t have especially the plot part
Well I am not so sure about the Theology part.
It certainly isn't as traditionally catholic as LOTR, but it seems to be well thought out.
Check out the Hogwarts Professor, if you are interested.
I agree. Completely ridiculous to even compare them.
@@corvinrick3644 “The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work,” J.R.R. Tolkien himself admitted.
I have grown up with JRR Tolkien and am well familiar with the theological components to his fictions. However, I have not immersed myself in the same way with Harry Potter, perhaps because of my personal prejudice against it. I will visit the site you suggest. On a preliminary review of what J.K. Rowlings wrote about her work, I find it to be not nearly as deeply Christian as that of J.R.R Tolkiens approach to The Lord of the Rings. J.K. Rowlings "Christianity" in Harry Potter seams to be little more than window dressing if anything. I am not convinced she is as deeply thought out and constructed as what we have in J.R.R. Tolkien. I would label her work "Christian influenced" but not particularly dealing with deep Christian principles.
@@corvinrick3644 But then you realize Harry’s whole story only happened because he was a horcrux, which wasn’t the original story. And what was the only reason the horcrux was created in the first place? Gonna post the rest in the main comments section so more people will see it haha
The moment these words were spoken, I was pulled right in. "The world is changed: I feel it in the water; I feel it in the earth; I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it." I'm sorry, but there's just no comparison!
Honestly not even joking i think some of Tolkien’s theology and the way he explains it is among some of the best i ever read. I would kill for him explaining the trinity
Unsolicited book recommendations:
Peter Kreeft's "The Philosophy of Tolkien" and a brand new book by some guy named Austin Freeman called "Tolkien Dogmatics" (I haven't finished the ending yet but it has a good part on the Trinity that I already passed)
Men of the West is a wonderful Lord of the Rings channel as well. Lays out the lore and history of Tolkien and Middle Earth in such a straight forward and unbiased way. Really is great.
Nerd of the Rings (while having some solid content) has become a bit of a sellout following the release of the Rings of Power show.
Would recommend ‘Men of the West’ or the ‘One Ring’ as good LOTR channels.
Indeed
I think that analogy of how Tolkien's works enrich your view of life, so too does a good a philosopher or Theologian. Its why Scott Hahn is such a beautiful theologian, same with Thomas Aquinas and most Christian Philosophers.
Objectively yes. Conversation over.
“Men of the West” and “The Broken Sword” are better LotR channels than Nerd of the Rings
Haven’t heard of the broken sword, but men of the west is great!
As someone who enjoys both, I agree. Lord of the Rings is better.
Also throwing this out there: I think Harry Potter has been getting the Star Wars treatment since the books and movies ended. By that I mean: the author screws with the lore in later works; sells the franchise to a big corporation making things worse and political; and the original author's unrelated works are forgotten and people don't care. There's more, but this is enough.
Yeah so has The Lord of the Rings with the rings of power show
@@rafiki1017 Fair point. I will give you that. I never watched and don't plan to, at this time, watch RofP.
If I want to counter, I can say Tolkien is not alive and the one messing with his own lore. In Rowling's case, she began contradicting her lore with The Cursed Child.
@@supernerd8067 Oh yeah I totally agree with that. I’m not a fan of the cursed child or the fantastic beast movies. I just thought you meant they were ruining a great story, but I see what you mean.
Of course no doubt about it.
Tolkien was one of the great writers of gorgeous prose.Tolkien far exceeds Rowling artistically,spiritually,morally.There really is no comparison. Robin Hobb exceeds Rowling in every way but Robin can not hold a flickering candle to Tolkien.I read the Potter books but struggled with the poor writing
Tolkien Lore, Men of the West, and Inspiring Philosophy are great channels which discuss Tolkien’s works.
Both are quite good.
I'm just glad the answer to the title question was answered (CORRECTLY) within the first 10 seconds of this video.
The bar is too high to argue anything against Tolkien in the high fantasy genre.
Harry Potter is a creation in the modern world of consumerism so no doubt banked more money for the creators but the longetitivty and influence of Lotr is something no other fantasy book will come close to surpassing anytime soon.
Movie wise the Lotr trilogy was one of the greatest projects ever put to screen and we were lucky to have got to see that at release for those who experienced it. Has there been a movie since as universally praised? I can't think of any.
It was a milestone in cinema those movies.
I mean...of course LotR is superior. Duh. And it clearly impacted Rowling's writing of Harry Potter.
1:03 While I like Nerd of the Rings, my two favs are Tolkien Lore Channel and Girl Next Gondor.
Nerd’s stock fell upon the release of Rings of Power. I get being objective, but he felt like a total sellout with that series.
@@TheJmlew11 I haven't seen it.
_Some of_ the criticisms seem less than usually valid to me ... from what they imply about how the critic sees story-telling or Tolkien.
Adding characters means "made up" ... as in Glorfindel _isn't?_
@@hglundahl I’m trying to piece together what you’re saying. Are you referring to Nerd’s criticisms, general criticisms of the show, or something else?
@@TheJmlew11 I am referring to those who give the show "one star reviews" and therefore disagree with Nerd of the Rings, I suppose.
@@hglundahlSo you’re saying that one star reviews are providing less that valid criticisms of the show?
I’m more of a Warhammer kinda guy, but LOTR is obviously a better piece of art than Harry Potter. Like, this isn’t even really a debate y’all. We all know the truth. Doesn’t mean HP is bad, but it’s just not the same.
I love the nerd of the rings!!!!
Men of the West is another good LotR channel. My 11yr old loves Tom Bombadil.
Harry Potter is deliberately a children's book, so there's that too...
A weakness in HP that hasn't been mentioned is that apart from a few side characters and Hagrid and his pets the stakes are actually rather limited for the characters with whom we spend so much time. Harry is the subject of action more than an actor in his own right. Each episode is centered around one of the acolytes of Voldy trying to kill/use Harry, who survives because other people are helping him and because evil is kinda stupid. Everyone else is in orbit around that action, and though they do some growing up, they don't really go anywhere. Tolkien's characters have arcs that are much more dependent on their own actions.
"Apart from a few side characters the stakes are actually rather limited." ARE YOU KIDDING??? Dobby, Fred, Moody, Snape, Dumbledore, Remus, Tonks, Colin Creevy, Hedwig, Sirius, Cedric.... I can go on. This is just patently wrong.
I think it's obvious that when comparing LOTR and Harry Potter, LOTR is going to win every time. Harry Potter was written for a very different audience (12 year old boys). A better question is whether LOTR is better than Wheel of Time...
Saying Harry Potter was written for 12-year-old boys is the most out-of-touch part of this argument. I think it's belittled because it's written in a style that actually appeals more to girls (its main audience) i.e. it's much more sympathetic. And yes, I do believe it's just as good as LOTR in its own way. (The Prisoner of Azkaban has a quintuple plot twist for God's sake. Rowling's 14 drafts of single chapters really shows). Harry Potter is beloved and yet the most staggeringly taken for granted series in history.
@@lunalee3021 Great points. I apologize if I seemed to imply that Harry Potter isn't good. It certainly is. I love the story, the intricacy of Rowling's plotting, and certainly the lengths she was willing to go to to make her story a modern masterpiece. We're kind of in a lose-lose situation comparing two phenomenal things. In this case, saying that one is better than the other ought not to be a slight on the other, but ought to highlight the greatness of both. If LOTR is only good when compared to a crappy novel, then how good is it really? But if LOTR is considered a great piece of literature when compared to another great piece of literature, then that is a testament to the greatness of both.
As far as 12-year old boys being the target audience for Harry Potter, I learned that from someone (David Farland) who helped market the series when it first came out. That's why I said a more fair comparison would be LOTR and WOT. Thinking as a marketer, Wheel of Time's target audience seems to be more in line with LOTR's target audience.
Interesting subject. Popularity is rarely an index to excellence but does have some bearing of course.Is Potter really 'better' than,for instance, Joyce's magnificent Ulysses or Proust's masterpiece just because it is way more popular?In my opinion Potter is not even in the race if comparing to such.LOTRs is,in my opinion, superb and hugely popular but in my experience such a thing is as rare as dragon's teeth.Bob Dylan is pretty popular and a great artist in my personal opinion so such things can and do happen but all against the run of the entropic cosmic dice
LOTR was written about The British DS is Africa. It is explained far more simply these days.
Is this man's name actually Plato?
Yep, pretty cool for a philosopher
Yeah. He teaches my sister.
What about the short/long Answer... Maybe.
Steven Gibb (the red book) is the best tolkien channel by far
The answer is yes. End of the debate.
Yes.
How is this even a question?
Shouldn't be much of a question for a catholic, as LOTR was written by declared and practising Christian, while HP contains some real occultism/satanism stuff.
Not even a question.
Total click bait 😅
Of course it is.
Better question, should Catholics read Harry Potter? Absolutely not.
Protestants should definitely NOT read Harry Potter. But it's fine for Catholics.
Why not
They shouldn’t read it cuz it’s not good not because it’s anything sinful
@@Commandosoap777 it’s not that it is sinful. There are occult things in it (by Rowlings own admission, you can find an interview she did early on where she talks about researching and trying to use actual spells (which she admits she doesn’t think are real)) that Catholics and other Christians should not be messing with. Just like we are not to mess with Oujia boards or tarot cards.
@@joelpenley9791 I know someone who was involved in the occult, and she confirmed that actual spells are used in HP.
Duh
No. No. No. No. 20 years after Harry Potter got dragged through the mud, J. K. Rowling being slandered as a witch, and her readers as "dumb" or "possessed" Catholics are finally admitting Harry Potter is "okay enough to read." No. This is just more snobbery. Harry Potter is GREAT literature. It has quintuple plot twists and up to 14 drafts per chapter. Rowling said she "sweated blood" over her red herrings. The quality of world-building is almost unseen. Readers absolutely come away from it seeing the world differently; it practically affected every person in my whole generation this way. The Chamber of Secrets is one of the most Catholic books I've ever read (intentional or not). Rowling is a rare author with integrity who practices what she preaches (standing up for what she believes is right). This is why the themes had a rare type of power that is otherwise unseen in children's contemporary fantasy (speaking of this genre how much of it have you even read?). Harry Potter deserves way more than "okay enough to read."
Harry wasn’t supposed to be a horcrux, but Rowling changed the story. The only reason all seven books happen is BECAUSE Harry was a horcrux. But what was the only reason the horcrux happened? Because Lily sacrificed herself. The Church teaches that God brings a greater good out of evil. That is represented in Tolkien’s works like The Lord of the Rings. Jesus tells us the greatest love is sacrificial love. In Harry Potter, sacrificial love creates the most evil object ever known in that world. It’s the opposite. Boom. Mythology of Harry Potter debunked in less than 30 seconds. It’s why I can’t really buy in to that mythology anymore. That and the numerous plot holes that exist in the books and movies.
False. This is like saying that Satan rejected God (sacrificial love) so the message of the Bible is also "the opposite" of Tolkien. Ridiculous.
The mental hoops people go through to justify their prejudice against Harry Potter shows some real insanity and pride at work, I tell you. Never ceases to amaze me.
@@lunalee3021 I am not prejudiced against Harry Potter. I am a fan of the story and grew up with the books haha. I defend people when other Catholics say they shouldn’t read them or watch the movies. And I still read and watch them(and am excited for the future of Potter because I didn’t like the Fantastic Beasts movies). I am simply pointing out the plot holes and what is, in my opinion, a mythological inconsistency and the best argument for it not being as good as The Lord of the Rings, whether that argument is just as a story in general or for which is better for leading us toward the Truth. Though I will admit I don’t really understand your first comment. I still stand by it being a plot hole and mythologically incoherent. God bless
You didn't debunk anything
Neither authors are Christian.
Both films are dreadful, I’d sooner poke my eyes out than watch such utter drivel
Films?
Such utter drivel? It means you don’t like fantasy. Why did you come here then? Such a waste