Re Tolkien being canonized: Integrating his writings and their messages into my early life is what kept me Catholic after my turbulent teens and twenties. I rebelled against everything except my respect for him. My "identity" as a Tolkien nerd was one thing I never could cast off. Now I owe him everything for bringing me home. I really do believe he is among the Saints in heaven.
I was raised Protestant, but Tolkien gave me hope in the midst of spiritual despair. When I was staring into the nihilistic abyss, I kept thinking to myself, "But Tolkien..." Now that I've become Catholic, the richness of his imagination has become clear. He felt different than anything else I had access to, including evangelical Christian fiction. His stories are truly works of spiritual healing and consolation, a gift from God.
Not like my opinion matters in the least, but I think it's a wonderful thing. I was already born Catholic by the time I began reading Tolkien as a teenager but later in life, I have to say, the fact that he was Catholic, and a devout one at that (and not to flex but the fact that I was born exactly 100 years to the day that he was lol) definitely kept me from leaving. There's something very powerful about this man who could conjure up such a potent and disarmingly realistic world also being a faithful, some would say strict (which can be a great thing), Catholic. Not to mention that his mythos communicates so much of the Catholic worldview in a way that maintains a respect for its complexity and beauty with absolutely no dilution. I think Tolkien has either kept many a Catholic in the fold and brought a great many more to it, and that's a great indirect service he'd be happy to learn about, I think.
I couldn't agree more - I enjoyed every minute of the interview. And I'd like to recommend two "must reads" about the Lord of the Rings: Craig Bernthal's "Tolkien's Sacramental Vision" and Fleming Rutledge's "The Battle for Middle Earth". These books are really mind blowing.
MANN I bought fellowship and towers last year with the other narrator. He’s good but Andy Serkis reading The Hobbit was fantastic. Maybe if I listen to them yet again I’ll rebuy them.
I love that quote at around 1:05:50 - although I'm used to a slightly different wording: "Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be like. Nobody is in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin, theologically, it's also a simple mistake because nobody actually knows. In that sense, there always is hope."
I actually live very close to where Tolkien used to live and I live literally a 10 minute walk away from where he would regularly go on walks. I will say it is easy to see in parts where he got his ideas from.
You need to have Dean Koontz on your show. He is the greatest catholic writer of our time. Through Koontz's work I got interested in Catholicism. His novels, although on the surface mere suspense novels, have deep catholic symbolism, imagery and morals woven into them. His series about Odd Thomas is the story of how young man becomes a saint. Koontz talked about his Catholicism in three longform interviews on EWTN. I think Koontz could be especially interesting for Matt as an interview partner since Matt writes horror stories too (Koontz is also referred to as the best horror author besides Stephen King). Would love to see that conversation happening!
@@benjaminwellinger1416 whoo!!! O read dean joints and thought this guy has got to be catholic. Sure enough I was right. For anyone wondering, the movie is a great way to get into his writing. Super loyal
I have old memories of dad reading the Hobbit and the trilogy to my brothers and I as youngsters. Truly formative, for all of us I think. One of my most treasured memories.
@@yomama5645 *to my brothers and me. To know when to use a subject or object pronoun, remove the other noun: it's incorrect to say "I have memories of my dad reading to I."
I loved how Howard Shore incorporated the different languages in his film score, even using different types of voices for each people group. Seeing it performed with a live symphony and choirs while the films played behind them was truly magical.
One of the best conversations I've heard in a long time. I've always chuckled to myself since I was about 13 about 'What would Gandalf do?" Now, in my 30's, I find myself grasping the deeper meanings of Tolkien's work and no longer chuckle at the thought. Many times the lessons in these stories have pulled me out of such dark places. "No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise."
A parallel I can bring between several of Matt's interviews: several excorsists have made statements about how the darkness is kept at bay by the simple every day things. Or " it is the small everyday deed of ordinary folks that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love". Loved this and many interviews. Huge LOTR fan.
My father read LOTR out loud to us when I was a kid. That winter provided some of the best memories of of my childhood. LOTR is still my favorite work of fiction. It is beautifully written, and is philosophically and theologically deep, and so thoroughly Catholic. Three minutes in, and I’m already loving this discussion!
@@Roz-y2d That is how it is for some. It is not a once you are done. There is a RUclips The Tolkien Road. The Silmarillion is broken down chapter by chapter. Tolkien is meant to be enjoyed. Take what you like and leave the rest.
LOTR is certainly one of the best things invented. Catholicism is certainly one of the worst things invented. At least something good came out of something evil. IMO.
@@Roz-y2d Wait. You're on a Catholic apologetics channel and you make a comment like that? That says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about anyone else.
@@Roz-y2dyou would have to explain your thought process. Maybe you have a distorted view. At least you don’t seem lukewarm this is a start . And who knows where the Holy Spirit brings you St Paul and St Augustin also started that way .
When Dr. Ben disclosed his second worst Peter Jackson screwup I literally jumped out of my chair, threw my fists in the air and yelled "Yes!!!!" I've felt this way about what Jackson did to poor Faramir for 20 years...thank you Dr. Ben.
I always tend to read Tolkien in the fall. My feelings of enchantment start to grow in New England that time of year. Tolkien breathes wonder back into our lives as modern nihilistic people.
Yes, laying on the sofa in front of an open fire, reading lotr as it gets dark outside. I always imagine New England looking a lot like the English countryside. Am I right?
Cradle catholic here who came back home 6/7 years ago. Dad gave me The Hobbit the summer I was almost 13, I only started reading when things got boring at the end of summer. I was hooked in the first chapter. I’m turning 59 this October ‘23 and have been a faithful JRR Tolkien fan even when I was away from the church. I always understood that it was very catholic but this conversation pretty much allowed me to see why I’ve always loved the books that I read every other year. Time for my next re read 😊 Blessings to both of you and everyone watching this video.
Matt speaks of weeping after reading TLOR. About 55 minutes into this discussion, and I feel the tears starting just hearing Gandalfs tale. Brilliantly entertaining and illuminating episode. We’ll done!
I met you at Smoke on the Water in Greenville, SC after Mass in St Mary’s Sunday. You have a lovely family. Your oldest daughter obviously loves you very much. I home I did not bother you. It was an honor to meet you and your family. God bless you
When I read the books in high school there was a day where I had a few minutes of time waiting for the final bell to ring. I was mentally in Middle Earth and didn’t even hear the bell, and sat there absorbed in the story for about 15 mins and the teacher had been out of the room and came back and asked why I was still there.
Just listened to Out of the Silent Planet, really interesting book. If Mere Christianity and HG Wells had a book baby. Waiting for Perelandra and That hideous strength to be available on Libby audiobook.
Definitely one of my favorite episodes. I love this stuff!!!! Listening to people talk about Tolkien is so fun, especially if it’s Fradd, Rainhard, or Kreeft. God bless you!!!
This is an amazingly timed episode. I was just thinking to myself earlier today I wonder if Pints with Aquinas has an episode about Tolkien or Lord of the Rings.
Very very excited to listen to this one! I have very high expectations as someone whose entire childhood was spent reading/watching/playing LOTR, and later years reading lore and biographies and such (maybe I’ll learn something new from this podcast?).
I read Lord of the Rings for the first time in 7th grade. I’m now 60 years old. I had heard my older brothers talk about it, but I had no idea what it was about. I thought perhaps it had something to do with the circus. I found it in the stacks at my Catholic grade school library. I checked out the Fellowship of the Ring and brought it home. After I plowed through the extended introduction which found somewhat dry, I got into the story itself and was absolutely hooked. I couldn’t put it down. Since then I’ve read the books, listened to audio versions, and seen the films more times I can count. It is my favorite work of fiction.
We need Catholics to come together and do a tv series of The Lord of the Rings. Maybe all our homeschool Catholic kids can come together and be the generation who gets it done right. Just have to add that I don’t understand how some people, especially if they’re catholic, not like Tom Bombadil!
@@richardrobertson1886 I think at first it seemed that way to me then after becoming Catholic, knowing there are many mysteries to life, I think Tom is perfect fit for a story. Without him they could not have continued on.
@@laraluna9365 Tom Bombadil is perhaps the most fascinating character. He's been there from the very beginning of the world according to what he said to the Hobbits. The One Ring doesn't have an effect on him whatsoever and he has undefined powers. He has knowledge of the outside world. People have speculated that he represents the reader or is even an incarnation of Iluvatar, yet Tolkien has said that neither are true. I think Tolkien deliberately left him to remain a mystery.
If you are looking for another great Catholic epic, I'd recommend "With Fire and Sword" and "The Deluge" by Henryk Sienkewicz. It was recommended to me by my adopted Polish Babcia after I told her how disappointed I was by the lack of character in the Three Musketeers. Truly one of the most poignant and beautiful novels I have read, right up there with the work of Professor Tolkien. I'd say it had a place on every Catholic's bookshelf!
Great interview! Dr. Reinhard was one of my favorite professors when I was a student at Christendom. 100% agree with his assessment of smart phones and Faramir's treatment in Peter Jackson's films. Thank you for having him on Matt! Such a lovely surprise to see a familiar face.
I read LOTR when i was 12, in 6 days. At the end I cried just like you Matt. I still do when I think about it or re-read the last lines, so you're not alone!!! Thanks for this great interview!!! (And Rings of power SUUUCKSS!!!! ;-) )
I like Tom, he provides a relief at the beginning of the novel when they begin out on their journey. He also helps world build. I think he provide a lot of value to the stories.
How funny, I just got into my yearly Lord of the Rings fase so this episode came out just in time for me 😂 Thanks for the work you do, this will be a good listen.
The moment he said character assassination I immediately knew he was going to talk about Faramir. I agree with his characterization and disappointment how the cinema portrayed him. By far my favorite character.
I first read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings when I was 7, loved it, and have read it multiple times since then. I haven't read them since I became Catholic though, so I should do that soon. I don't have a smart phone anymore, just a flip phone. I also deleted my facebook, instagram, twitter, and a few other accounts. I kept RUclips, but it'll probably go next if I can help it. It's been about 4 years since I got the flip phone and then started quitting most social media. It's been very freeing.
Goals! Really all I need is phone. Texting You tube- (or mode to listen at work, to solid catholic talks and info) And music… mostly gregorian chant while I sleep. Read LOTR in my 30’s as a young single mom.. need to reread them.
This was by FAR the best episode so far on Pints. Matt, you were wonderfully passionate and sharp, and Ben Reinhard is so eloquent and charming and insightful. I long for discussions like this. Thank you for lighting a lantern for me.
Oh my gosh, you just scored a lifetime fan here, Matt, for your comment on Ireland’s fireplace policy. Of course in California this has been the law for over a decade.
I’ve been making my way through the books again recently and am almost finished with The Return of the King. Unlike some other stories, with every single reading I do I enjoy it more than the last. I find myself pondering on various themes and deeper meanings, and I continue appreciating the work more and more. I’m thinking of going the Christopher Lee route and making an effort to read the books once a year.
Highly recommend checking out Dr. Corey Olsen’s takes on anything Tolkien. E.g. Tolkien was constantly revising and rethinking characters, stories, concepts throughout his life, sometimes drastically. Galadriel is actually a fascinating example of this.
I loved every minute of this interview. And I'd like to recommend two "must reads" about the Lord of the Rings: Craig Bernthal's "Tolkien's Sacramental Vision" and Fleming Rutledge's "The Battle for Middle Earth". These books are really mind blowing.
what about this? Tom Bombadil is man fully alive; Adam that never fell. The ring is akin to the forbidden fruit. Tom has no interest in the fallen projects of men. He sings because every word from his mouth is prayer and he prays without ceasing. He has true stewardship over the garden because he is full of sanctifying grace... Or maybe he's just the spirit of the English Countryside.
I can't not tear up at Tom's song to free the Hobbits from the Wight's spell. Pure eucatastrophe. The view that every song is a prayer is wonderful. "Wake now my merry lads! Wake and hear me calling! Warm now be heart and limb! The cold stone is fallen; Dark door is standing wide; dead hand is broken. Night under Night is flown, and the Gate is open!"
That bit about the photo album being precious made me think a bit. These days we aren't so worried about losing such things in a fire because there's always backups, but certainly, we'd care for these things more if there wasn't. That kind of reminded me of the saying that nothing is sacred anymore, but I think that's in part because we aren't in the habit of making things holy anymore. Everything is a commodity. There's always a backup. There's always another, or perhaps, one could always become what one needs at a later time. If holiness is being set aside for a special purpose, it stands to reason that there isn't a lot of it ... on purpose. Holy things are deliberately rare, and they cannot just change their purpose on a whim. What if we let go of the security of a backup? What if we remembered our previous memories ourselves or explicitly set aside one thing to keep it for us? We'd certainly have to be a lot more intentional and thoughtful in our every action. Could it be more stressful? Probably, but at the same time, we should ask ourselves if the work is worth of our devotion. What things do we make holy?
September 24, 1914 - the original Earendil poem was written. He let his TCBS friends read it and G. B. Smith said it was great, but ‘what does it mean?’ To which Tolkien replied, I don’t know, but I shall have to find out.
Talking about how we’d all be gollum reminded me of a sermon I heard about Adam and Eve. Father said, before you blame Adam and Eve know that you’d do the exact same thing. Mic drop
Even Amish have begun to have ‘phones’ so they can operate with the regular world. I recently had meat chickens ‘processed’ by an Amish family. They have the phone in a small outhouse like building, and they check messages once or twice a day for scheduling. I didn’t ask if it’s a smart phone or a landline. (If those still exist?) Driving to their place was so beautiful. Little kids driving little pony carts to school. All the kids barefoot! (I prefer to be barefoot) All smiling! Those children have a blessing many children are now missing. Simplicity. The kids were about 5, 6, 7, 8 driving the pony wagons.
I envy the Amish for the reasons you mentioned, and more. I joke with my husband that in the future, instead of coming to stay with the Amish for a getaway at a bed and breakfast, people will come to stay with a nuclear family to remember old times. Macabre joke, but places like Steubenville will become idyllic for the large catholic families with a mom and dad.
To be fair, this isn’t new. My parents and I would head down to Lancaster to buy horse tack at least once a year (we’re from CT). My dad saw a poster hanging on a wall, the Amish store owner took it down, went into the back room, and made a copy for my day with a big office style copier/fax machine. This would have been in the late 90s. That being said, they still don’t use technology in their family life or their worship, and that’s incredible.
the reason why the eagles can't take frodo to mt. doom is because sauron has a giant host of ravens that will see them and a bunch of nazguls on flying lizards, and if he knows they're coming then they can just put a bunch of orcs at mt doom so when they touch down they'll be waiting for them.
Love this interview, love knowing more about Tolkien and the Great relationship between his work and life either the Christ, his church and the liturgy.
Thoughts: 1 - Eagles taking Frodo to the Mountain would not mean Frodo would have been able to destroy the Ring. 2 - Can't read it slowly. Once you are trapped - there goes your sleep!
More thought: 3 - Tom Bombadil. Too much focus on what he is, represents, etc. You have to focus his role. He allows a miraculous intercession, without which the quest is over. The Black Riders are just too close. However, the source of the miraculous escape must not be able to continue in the story or the problem is gone. Tom is just a literary trick, unique and necessary, to allow the story to go on.
I love this episode!!! Good family board games: "Ticket to Ride." There's a first journey version for younger kids (5-9 depending on attention levels). There's the regular one (family favorite--we have played it with 3 generations of the family many times), and there are even European and several other versions once you become a super-fan of this game. Also, we love "Catan Jr." for the younger age group (7-10ish). We haven't got into the regular version of Catan...I wish I would someday, it would be good to learn from a group that already plays it. My kids play "Stratego" amongst themselves (2 player game ages 8+).
1 tidbit I’ve been waiting to hear someone talk about and they were SO CLOSE when discussing cellphones… the Palantir is basically a cell phone that the enemy uses to control and corrupt and sow seeds of despair. Denathor is the prime example. BUT it can also be used for good if one has the strength of character to wield it (Aragorn). Pretty sure I heard somewhere that Tolkien got the inspiration for it from the invention of the television but that could be nonsense
Only saw the films, tried to read "the hobbit" when I was about 12 years old, but never got far. After this episode I can't wait to start giving it a real try!
On a comment on a RUclips video, a priest said that Tom Bombadil was similar to Melchizedek. Think the video was from The Nerd of the Rings or Men of the West. Wish I could find the comment again because it was interesting. I’ll probably try to find it again now.
On the section about Tom Bombadil (1:57:00), not being a Tolkien scholar, I wonder if Tom could be a higher ordered Maia. Essentially what Sauron could've been if he didn't fall, as Dr Reinhard mentions that Sauron was a higher ordered Maia than Gandalf. Idk if this works in the mythology but I like the idea. Almost like how Dr Reinhard said the wizards are almost taking a vow of povert,y and servitude, I wonder if Tom did something similar and therefore is incredibly powerful but not concerned with *using* that power for his own means
Had to look it up: According to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, a nerd is someone who is “unstylish, unattractive or socially inept person” and one who is devoted to “intellectual or academic pursuits” and some technology, while a geek is someone who is an “enthusiast or expert, especially in a technological field or activity”
Matt, your son Peter sounds like he has a beautiful pure innocent soul. And lives in Gods beauty simply! Outside of busy egotistical human relationships…
You start out by calling your guest a geek - & then insinuate he is NOT smart - poor guy! MEANIE! ☹💔🤣🤣🤣 I actually listened to this with earbuds while cleaning & I LOVE THIS!! I also greatly appreciate the tones of both your voices, which display proper regard for this absolute masterpiece you are discussing! But there was also _"..his brother Hillary??"_ 🤣I think we were ALL thinking that, especially nowadays! 🤣I was completely enraptured with this WONDERFUL podcast. Sooo GREAT!! I was crying & laughing at alternate times, OH MY GOODNESS!! THEN the sneeze & nose-blowing happened, seemingly intentionally drowning out this poor man's explaining of something important (though it virtually ALL was!!) I couldn't understand what was happening!! 🤣🤣🤣 Keeping me on my toes, Pints! I also loved his innocently repeating back to you, "why do I have one?" He probably went home that night & while laying in a fetal position, replayed that in his mind & debated with himself whether or not to abandon his smart phone forever. So if you can't tell, I really enjoyed this Lord of the Rings episode! 🏆💕✝❤
2:15:56 Shrek is a children's book published in 1990, 11 years before the movie. Jonathan Pageau does an good break down of why Shrek is not a good story.
I know I'm walking into this one, but I liked the Peter Jackson movies and faramir was one of my favorites. I was introduced to the movies before the books though😂
1 minute in and it’s already more faithful to Toilken than the entirety of Rings of Power.
Real
I’ve taken dumps that were more faithful to Tolkien than ROP.
😂😂
RIGHT?
Shhh. We don't talk about that anymore. It's the name you don't say.
Fradd blowing his nose during the interview was more faithful to Tolkien than Rings of Power.
😂 lol, if true, you have the best comment
Love it
Re Tolkien being canonized: Integrating his writings and their messages into my early life is what kept me Catholic after my turbulent teens and twenties. I rebelled against everything except my respect for him. My "identity" as a Tolkien nerd was one thing I never could cast off. Now I owe him everything for bringing me home. I really do believe he is among the Saints in heaven.
Saints don’t exist. Good people do. Tolkien was a good person and helped you help yourself. You’ve diminished your part in healing yourself.
I was raised Protestant, but Tolkien gave me hope in the midst of spiritual despair. When I was staring into the nihilistic abyss, I kept thinking to myself, "But Tolkien..." Now that I've become Catholic, the richness of his imagination has become clear. He felt different than anything else I had access to, including evangelical Christian fiction. His stories are truly works of spiritual healing and consolation, a gift from God.
Not like my opinion matters in the least, but I think it's a wonderful thing. I was already born Catholic by the time I began reading Tolkien as a teenager but later in life, I have to say, the fact that he was Catholic, and a devout one at that (and not to flex but the fact that I was born exactly 100 years to the day that he was lol) definitely kept me from leaving. There's something very powerful about this man who could conjure up such a potent and disarmingly realistic world also being a faithful, some would say strict (which can be a great thing), Catholic. Not to mention that his mythos communicates so much of the Catholic worldview in a way that maintains a respect for its complexity and beauty with absolutely no dilution. I think Tolkien has either kept many a Catholic in the fold and brought a great many more to it, and that's a great indirect service he'd be happy to learn about, I think.
I was away from church but never away from Middle Earth. Tolkien did keep me catholic enough to make my journey back a bit more easy.
Is it just me or does anyone else’s heaven include sitting with Tolkien and Chesterton and the like whilst they smoke a pipe?
This wasn’t nearly long enough. Please bring this professor back for a round 2 asap! 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Awesome job.
I couldn't agree more - I enjoyed every minute of the interview.
And I'd like to recommend two "must reads" about the Lord of the Rings: Craig Bernthal's "Tolkien's Sacramental Vision" and Fleming Rutledge's "The Battle for Middle Earth". These books are really mind blowing.
I highly recommend the Andy Serkis Audiobook reading. It's an immersive experience and his Tom Bombadil is literally perfect.
Thanks for the reminder just got his reading The Hobbit
MANN I bought fellowship and towers last year with the other narrator. He’s good but Andy Serkis reading The Hobbit was fantastic. Maybe if I listen to them yet again I’ll rebuy them.
I have the Hobbit and all 3 LOTR audiobooks with A dy Serkis, they are INCREDIBLE!!!
I love that quote at around 1:05:50 - although I'm used to a slightly different wording: "Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be like. Nobody is in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin, theologically, it's also a simple mistake because nobody actually knows. In that sense, there always is hope."
I actually live very close to where Tolkien used to live and I live literally a 10 minute walk away from where he would regularly go on walks. I will say it is easy to see in parts where he got his ideas from.
You need to have Dean Koontz on your show. He is the greatest catholic writer of our time. Through Koontz's work I got interested in Catholicism. His novels, although on the surface mere suspense novels, have deep catholic symbolism, imagery and morals woven into them. His series about Odd Thomas is the story of how young man becomes a saint. Koontz talked about his Catholicism in three longform interviews on EWTN. I think Koontz could be especially interesting for Matt as an interview partner since Matt writes horror stories too (Koontz is also referred to as the best horror author besides Stephen King). Would love to see that conversation happening!
I’m gonna watch that. Thanks.
Dean Koontz is catholic?? So you’re telling me ever amazing person is catholic? Cool
@@benjaminwellinger1416 whoo!!! O read dean joints and thought this guy has got to be catholic. Sure enough I was right. For anyone wondering, the movie is a great way to get into his writing. Super loyal
My dad always read Tolkien to my brother and I when we were small children so we became obsessed with all of it.
Yay!
*to my brother and me. To know when to use a subject or object pronoun, remove the other person's name: you wouldn't say "My dad read to I."
I have old memories of dad reading the Hobbit and the trilogy to my brothers and I as youngsters. Truly formative, for all of us I think. One of my most treasured memories.
@@yomama5645 *to my brothers and me. To know when to use a subject or object pronoun, remove the other noun: it's incorrect to say "I have memories of my dad reading to I."
I had Dr. Rienhard for English class and let me tell you, I almost majored In English. Love seeing him on the show keep up the great work Matt
Probably for the best that you didn't major "I'm" English.
Oops
He’s such an awesome professor!
Nice try on the edit, but "In" shouldn't be capitalized before "English". Again, you did right not to declare as an English major.
Wow didn’t expect people to kinda be jerks in a Pints with Aquinas comment section lol
Enjoy the little laughs you get from people misspelling things
I loved how Howard Shore incorporated the different languages in his film score, even using different types of voices for each people group. Seeing it performed with a live symphony and choirs while the films played behind them was truly magical.
One of the best conversations I've heard in a long time. I've always chuckled to myself since I was about 13 about 'What would Gandalf do?" Now, in my 30's, I find myself grasping the deeper meanings of Tolkien's work and no longer chuckle at the thought. Many times the lessons in these stories have pulled me out of such dark places.
"No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it. White shores, and beyond, a far green country under a swift sunrise."
A parallel I can bring between several of Matt's interviews: several excorsists have made statements about how the darkness is kept at bay by the simple every day things. Or " it is the small everyday deed of ordinary folks that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love". Loved this and many interviews. Huge LOTR fan.
My first time reading Lord of the Rings felt like reconnecting with an old friend.
My father read LOTR out loud to us when I was a kid. That winter provided some of the best memories of of my childhood. LOTR is still my favorite work of fiction. It is beautifully written, and is philosophically and theologically deep, and so thoroughly Catholic. Three minutes in, and I’m already loving this discussion!
Silmarillion is worth reading. Great precursor to LOTR.
I tried to read it but I just couldn’t get plugged in.
@@Roz-y2d I tried and failed miserably. A new audio book narrated by Andy Serkis came out recently and I'm enjoying it quite a bit.
@@Roz-y2dtry the audio book, if you haven't. It's exceptional.
@@Roz-y2d That is how it is for some. It is not a once you are done.
There is a RUclips The Tolkien Road.
The Silmarillion is broken down chapter by chapter.
Tolkien is meant to be enjoyed. Take what you like and leave the rest.
I read The Silmarillion after LOTR, and found that satisfying.
FINALLY, EVERYTHING IVE BEEN WAITING FOR. LOTR AND CATHOLICISM, THE TWO BEST THINGS ON THE PLANET
Matt has had previous shows about LOTR.
LOTR is certainly one of the best things invented. Catholicism is certainly one of the worst things invented. At least something good came out of something evil. IMO.
@@Roz-y2d Wait. You're on a Catholic apologetics channel and you make a comment like that? That says a hell of a lot more about you than it does about anyone else.
@@Roz-y2dyou would have to explain your thought process. Maybe you have a distorted view. At least you don’t seem lukewarm this is a start . And who knows where the Holy Spirit brings you St Paul and St Augustin also started that way .
@@Roz-y2dEvil cannot create it can only corrupt.
When Dr. Ben disclosed his second worst Peter Jackson screwup I literally jumped out of my chair, threw my fists in the air and yelled "Yes!!!!" I've felt this way about what Jackson did to poor Faramir for 20 years...thank you Dr. Ben.
I always tend to read Tolkien in the fall. My feelings of enchantment start to grow in New England that time of year. Tolkien breathes wonder back into our lives as modern nihilistic people.
Yes, laying on the sofa in front of an open fire, reading lotr as it gets dark outside. I always imagine New England looking a lot like the English countryside. Am I right?
Also in New England and was thinking the same!
Yay! It’s almost time to hit that road that goes on and on…👍
CT here, same
Cradle catholic here who came back home 6/7 years ago. Dad gave me The Hobbit the summer I was almost 13, I only started reading when things got boring at the end of summer. I was hooked in the first chapter.
I’m turning 59 this October ‘23 and have been a faithful JRR Tolkien fan even when I was away from the church. I always understood that it was very catholic but this conversation pretty much allowed me to see why I’ve always loved the books that I read every other year. Time for my next re read 😊
Blessings to both of you and everyone watching this video.
I long for something I can't maintain . . . I hear you brother!
Dr Reinhard was my thesis director at Christendom College! Brilliant interview with a brilliant man.
Would love an episode like this for CS Lewis or GK Chestersen.
Matt speaks of weeping after reading TLOR. About 55 minutes into this discussion, and I feel the tears starting just hearing Gandalfs tale. Brilliantly entertaining and illuminating episode. We’ll done!
I met you at Smoke on the Water in Greenville, SC after Mass in St Mary’s Sunday. You have a lovely family. Your oldest daughter obviously loves you very much.
I home I did not bother you.
It was an honor to meet you and your family.
God bless you
When I read the books in high school there was a day where I had a few minutes of time waiting for the final bell to ring. I was mentally in Middle Earth and didn’t even hear the bell, and sat there absorbed in the story for about 15 mins and the teacher had been out of the room and came back and asked why I was still there.
I remember learning some Old English in a lunchtime extracurricular class with Dr. Reinhard. Great professor!
Does he say "right" every other sentence in class like he did in this interview?
I haven’t read Lewis’ space trilogy but Till We Have Faces is his absolute best work. It’s truly beautiful.
Just listened to Out of the Silent Planet, really interesting book. If Mere Christianity and HG Wells had a book baby. Waiting for Perelandra and That hideous strength to be available on Libby audiobook.
Perelandra is fantastic!!
Definitely one of my favorite episodes. I love this stuff!!!! Listening to people talk about Tolkien is so fun, especially if it’s Fradd, Rainhard, or Kreeft. God bless you!!!
This is an amazingly timed episode. I was just thinking to myself earlier today I wonder if Pints with Aquinas has an episode about Tolkien or Lord of the Rings.
Brilliant, Matt. Thanks for putting this one together
Very very excited to listen to this one! I have very high expectations as someone whose entire childhood was spent reading/watching/playing LOTR, and later years reading lore and biographies and such (maybe I’ll learn something new from this podcast?).
I read Lord of the Rings for the first time in 7th grade. I’m now 60 years old. I had heard my older brothers talk about it, but I had no idea what it was about. I thought perhaps it had something to do with the circus. I found it in the stacks at my Catholic grade school library. I checked out the Fellowship of the Ring and brought it home. After I plowed through the extended introduction which found somewhat dry, I got into the story itself and was absolutely hooked. I couldn’t put it down. Since then I’ve read the books, listened to audio versions, and seen the films more times I can count. It is my favorite work of fiction.
Matt’s Gandalf voice is amazing!😅
Right! When he did the Gandalf voice I was like can he do a reading of the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings? Can we do a book club??
We need Catholics to come together and do a tv series of The Lord of the Rings. Maybe all our homeschool Catholic kids can come together and be the generation who gets it done right.
Just have to add that I don’t understand how some people, especially if they’re catholic, not like Tom Bombadil!
From a storytelling perspective I found Tom to be an unnecessary segue.
@@richardrobertson1886 I think at first it seemed that way to me then after becoming Catholic, knowing there are many mysteries to life, I think Tom is perfect fit for a story. Without him they could not have continued on.
@@laraluna9365 Tom Bombadil is perhaps the most fascinating character. He's been there from the very beginning of the world according to what he said to the Hobbits. The One Ring doesn't have an effect on him whatsoever and he has undefined powers. He has knowledge of the outside world. People have speculated that he represents the reader or is even an incarnation of Iluvatar, yet Tolkien has said that neither are true. I think Tolkien deliberately left him to remain a mystery.
If you are looking for another great Catholic epic, I'd recommend "With Fire and Sword" and "The Deluge" by Henryk Sienkewicz. It was recommended to me by my adopted Polish Babcia after I told her how disappointed I was by the lack of character in the Three Musketeers. Truly one of the most poignant and beautiful novels I have read, right up there with the work of Professor Tolkien. I'd say it had a place on every Catholic's bookshelf!
You are probably well aware of that, but there is a third part to the trilogy, called Colonel Wolodyjowski
Great interview! Dr. Reinhard was one of my favorite professors when I was a student at Christendom. 100% agree with his assessment of smart phones and Faramir's treatment in Peter Jackson's films. Thank you for having him on Matt! Such a lovely surprise to see a familiar face.
I read LOTR when i was 12, in 6 days. At the end I cried just like you Matt. I still do when I think about it or re-read the last lines, so you're not alone!!! Thanks for this great interview!!! (And Rings of power SUUUCKSS!!!! ;-) )
I AM HERE FOR THIS
I like Tom, he provides a relief at the beginning of the novel when they begin out on their journey. He also helps world build. I think he provide a lot of value to the stories.
How funny, I just got into my yearly Lord of the Rings fase so this episode came out just in time for me 😂 Thanks for the work you do, this will be a good listen.
The moment he said character assassination I immediately knew he was going to talk about Faramir.
I agree with his characterization and disappointment how the cinema portrayed him.
By far my favorite character.
This has been a fantastic conversation! Thanks for providing it. I’m going to reread LOTR again now.
I first read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings when I was 7, loved it, and have read it multiple times since then. I haven't read them since I became Catholic though, so I should do that soon.
I don't have a smart phone anymore, just a flip phone. I also deleted my facebook, instagram, twitter, and a few other accounts. I kept RUclips, but it'll probably go next if I can help it. It's been about 4 years since I got the flip phone and then started quitting most social media. It's been very freeing.
Goals!
Really all I need is phone.
Texting
You tube- (or mode to listen at work, to solid catholic talks and info)
And music… mostly gregorian chant while I sleep.
Read LOTR in my 30’s as a young single mom.. need to reread them.
This is legitimately my favourite video on RUclips right now.
This was by FAR the best episode so far on Pints. Matt, you were wonderfully passionate and sharp, and Ben Reinhard is so eloquent and charming and insightful. I long for discussions like this. Thank you for lighting a lantern for me.
You should interview Dr. Holly Ordway about her book "Tolkien's Faith" from Word on Fire.
Werd. Waiting on my copy!
Oh my gosh, you just scored a lifetime fan here, Matt, for your comment on Ireland’s fireplace policy. Of course in California this has been the law for over a decade.
I look forward to hearing these interviews - SO WONDERFUL
I’d very much love to read Tolkiens depiction of Purgatory. I had no idea he did that
I’ve been making my way through the books again recently and am almost finished with The Return of the King. Unlike some other stories, with every single reading I do I enjoy it more than the last. I find myself pondering on various themes and deeper meanings, and I continue appreciating the work more and more.
I’m thinking of going the Christopher Lee route and making an effort to read the books once a year.
I remember being crushed to tears when Sam witnessed the destruction of the Shire.
Such a great and serious talk about the dangers of technology, of how destructive it can be.
I am thoroughly enjoying this. I could listen to people talk about LOTR all day.
As a hobbyist writer who has been deeply inspired by Tolkien, I find this talk a great resource as I move forward with my own works.
Omg….what a great convo, boys. Btw I LOVE bombadil….I live for this stuff.
I'm doing my yearly read of LOTR and I'm really trying to take my time and take everything in as you said.
Highly recommend checking out Dr. Corey Olsen’s takes on anything Tolkien. E.g. Tolkien was constantly revising and rethinking characters, stories, concepts throughout his life, sometimes drastically. Galadriel is actually a fascinating example of this.
Great discussion!!!
I loved every minute of this interview.
And I'd like to recommend two "must reads" about the Lord of the Rings: Craig Bernthal's "Tolkien's Sacramental Vision" and Fleming Rutledge's "The Battle for Middle Earth". These books are really mind blowing.
what about this? Tom Bombadil is man fully alive; Adam that never fell. The ring is akin to the forbidden fruit. Tom has no interest in the fallen projects of men. He sings because every word from his mouth is prayer and he prays without ceasing. He has true stewardship over the garden because he is full of sanctifying grace... Or maybe he's just the spirit of the English Countryside.
Love this view!
I can't not tear up at Tom's song to free the Hobbits from the Wight's spell. Pure eucatastrophe. The view that every song is a prayer is wonderful.
"Wake now my merry lads! Wake and hear me calling!
Warm now be heart and limb! The cold stone is fallen;
Dark door is standing wide; dead hand is broken.
Night under Night is flown, and the Gate is open!"
good stuff!@@Toad-SG7
Thank you for this brain candy.
Love this! My daughter’s middle name is Elanor, after the flowers of Lothlorien, seeds of which Sam planted in the Shire.
At 1:55 reminds me of The Magicians and how Fillory, a fictional place/story becomes real, and people from our realm are able to dwell there
Talking about my favorite author and book series. Excellent interview and I love to learn more about Tolkien's Catholicism.
That bit about the photo album being precious made me think a bit. These days we aren't so worried about losing such things in a fire because there's always backups, but certainly, we'd care for these things more if there wasn't. That kind of reminded me of the saying that nothing is sacred anymore, but I think that's in part because we aren't in the habit of making things holy anymore. Everything is a commodity. There's always a backup. There's always another, or perhaps, one could always become what one needs at a later time. If holiness is being set aside for a special purpose, it stands to reason that there isn't a lot of it ... on purpose. Holy things are deliberately rare, and they cannot just change their purpose on a whim. What if we let go of the security of a backup? What if we remembered our previous memories ourselves or explicitly set aside one thing to keep it for us? We'd certainly have to be a lot more intentional and thoughtful in our every action. Could it be more stressful? Probably, but at the same time, we should ask ourselves if the work is worth of our devotion. What things do we make holy?
September 24, 1914 - the original Earendil poem was written. He let his TCBS friends read it and G. B. Smith said it was great, but ‘what does it mean?’ To which Tolkien replied, I don’t know, but I shall have to find out.
1:19:45 - 1:21:00 Same sort of logic in Orthodoxy. Love this❤️❤️❤️
loved this interview
Fascinating interview
Talking about how we’d all be gollum reminded me of a sermon I heard about Adam and Eve. Father said, before you blame Adam and Eve know that you’d do the exact same thing. Mic drop
Even Amish have begun to have ‘phones’ so they can operate with the regular world.
I recently had meat chickens ‘processed’ by an Amish family. They have the phone in a small outhouse like building, and they check messages once or twice a day for scheduling.
I didn’t ask if it’s a smart phone or a landline. (If those still exist?)
Driving to their place was so beautiful. Little kids driving little pony carts to school. All the kids barefoot! (I prefer to be barefoot)
All smiling! Those children have a blessing many children are now missing. Simplicity.
The kids were about 5, 6, 7, 8 driving the pony wagons.
I envy the Amish for the reasons you mentioned, and more. I joke with my husband that in the future, instead of coming to stay with the Amish for a getaway at a bed and breakfast, people will come to stay with a nuclear family to remember old times. Macabre joke, but places like Steubenville will become idyllic for the large catholic families with a mom and dad.
To be fair, this isn’t new. My parents and I would head down to Lancaster to buy horse tack at least once a year (we’re from CT). My dad saw a poster hanging on a wall, the Amish store owner took it down, went into the back room, and made a copy for my day with a big office style copier/fax machine. This would have been in the late 90s.
That being said, they still don’t use technology in their family life or their worship, and that’s incredible.
I love this interview thank you for your work.
@1:57:37 The ring doesn't effect Bombadil. Bombadil makes the ring disappear... That's Chuck Norris level stuff.
the reason why the eagles can't take frodo to mt. doom is because sauron has a giant host of ravens that will see them and a bunch of nazguls on flying lizards, and if he knows they're coming then they can just put a bunch of orcs at mt doom so when they touch down they'll be waiting for them.
Love this interview, love knowing more about Tolkien and the Great relationship between his work and life either the Christ, his church and the liturgy.
Thoughts:
1 - Eagles taking Frodo to the Mountain would not mean Frodo would have been able to destroy the Ring.
2 - Can't read it slowly. Once you are trapped - there goes your sleep!
I could go for a kinda Miyazaki style animated LotR kept faithful to the books.
More thought:
3 - Tom Bombadil. Too much focus on what he is, represents, etc. You have to focus his role. He allows a miraculous intercession, without which the quest is over. The Black Riders are just too close. However, the source of the miraculous escape must not be able to continue in the story or the problem is gone. Tom is just a literary trick, unique and necessary, to allow the story to go on.
I love this episode!!! Good family board games: "Ticket to Ride." There's a first journey version for younger kids (5-9 depending on attention levels). There's the regular one (family favorite--we have played it with 3 generations of the family many times), and there are even European and several other versions once you become a super-fan of this game. Also, we love "Catan Jr." for the younger age group (7-10ish). We haven't got into the regular version of Catan...I wish I would someday, it would be good to learn from a group that already plays it. My kids play "Stratego" amongst themselves (2 player game ages 8+).
I LOVE TOLKIEN SO MUCH!
1 tidbit I’ve been waiting to hear someone talk about and they were SO CLOSE when discussing cellphones… the Palantir is basically a cell phone that the enemy uses to control and corrupt and sow seeds of despair. Denathor is the prime example. BUT it can also be used for good if one has the strength of character to wield it (Aragorn). Pretty sure I heard somewhere that Tolkien got the inspiration for it from the invention of the television but that could be nonsense
Thank you for this. Loved it.
Please please please more LOTR content!!! 🧝🏻♂️🏹💚
Only saw the films, tried to read "the hobbit" when I was about 12 years old, but never got far. After this episode I can't wait to start giving it a real try!
On a comment on a RUclips video, a priest said that Tom Bombadil was similar to Melchizedek. Think the video was from The Nerd of the Rings or Men of the West. Wish I could find the comment again because it was interesting. I’ll probably try to find it again now.
This is the best Pints episode ever made.
definitely either as good as or better than the Shroud of Turin one!
I loved that one too! @@milkeywilkie
On the section about Tom Bombadil (1:57:00), not being a Tolkien scholar, I wonder if Tom could be a higher ordered Maia. Essentially what Sauron could've been if he didn't fall, as Dr Reinhard mentions that Sauron was a higher ordered Maia than Gandalf. Idk if this works in the mythology but I like the idea. Almost like how Dr Reinhard said the wizards are almost taking a vow of povert,y and servitude, I wonder if Tom did something similar and therefore is incredibly powerful but not concerned with *using* that power for his own means
Aaaaand a little bit later Dr Reinhard acknowledges that's a theory lol I should wait before commenting 😂
Had to look it up: According to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, a nerd is someone who is “unstylish, unattractive or socially inept person” and one who is devoted to “intellectual or academic pursuits” and some technology, while a geek is someone who is an “enthusiast or expert, especially in a technological field or activity”
Matt, your son Peter sounds like he has a beautiful pure innocent soul. And lives in Gods beauty simply! Outside of busy egotistical human relationships…
You start out by calling your guest a geek - & then insinuate he is NOT smart - poor guy! MEANIE! ☹💔🤣🤣🤣 I actually listened to this with earbuds while cleaning & I LOVE THIS!! I also greatly appreciate the tones of both your voices, which display proper regard for this absolute masterpiece you are discussing! But there was also _"..his brother Hillary??"_ 🤣I think we were ALL thinking that, especially nowadays! 🤣I was completely enraptured with this WONDERFUL podcast. Sooo GREAT!! I was crying & laughing at alternate times, OH MY GOODNESS!! THEN the sneeze & nose-blowing happened, seemingly intentionally drowning out this poor man's explaining of something important (though it virtually ALL was!!) I couldn't understand what was happening!! 🤣🤣🤣 Keeping me on my toes, Pints! I also loved his innocently repeating back to you, "why do I have one?" He probably went home that night & while laying in a fetal position, replayed that in his mind & debated with himself whether or not to abandon his smart phone forever. So if you can't tell, I really enjoyed this Lord of the Rings episode! 🏆💕✝❤
I hope he talks about the elf Haldir. He was my favourite elf, and when he died I cried. That was in the film.
2:15:56 Shrek is a children's book published in 1990, 11 years before the movie. Jonathan Pageau does an good break down of why Shrek is not a good story.
Great show!
We've gotta have Dr. Reinhard and Brandon Vogt on to talk more about Tolkien and the faith.
Matt, you need a primitive cabin in the woods to escape to! Teach your kids survival skills and hike and fish. It’s the best!
One of the best things I have heard on RUclips.
I know I'm walking into this one, but I liked the Peter Jackson movies and faramir was one of my favorites. I was introduced to the movies before the books though😂
Love this episode
C’mon, Tom Bombadil is one of my faves in the whole thing!
"The nothing becomes the chain that binds you" going to be meditation on that one for months!
Great talk! One thing: I think that Joseph Pearce does prove that Tom Bombadil is Adam, the first man before the Fall